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The Deliberate efforts of Crush to remove PVP from the Game.
nesn00000
Posts: 151 Arc User
For those of you remember the discussion Crush had with the community regarding how the On-Alert Pass would affect PVP this thread is just a refresher for you. For those of you that are newer to the Game and PVP, I want to make you aware of Crush's deliberate efforts to remove PVP from the game all together.
Recently I made this post; it received over 2,000 views and spanned 7 Pages long. In measurement to the other posts, it was the top most viewed topic.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=184551
It outlines what Crush committed too before the On Alert Pass:
1. Convert Acclaim to Questionite
2. Provide gear on the pvp vendors = Questionite rewards gear.
Simple, right?
What he did was.
1. Remove all of the existing pvp gear except for a few pieces.
2. Priced what little gear there was in acclaim @ 250,000k a pop, well outside anyone?s ability to obtain
3. Removed PVP from the new economy and from the future.
What this did and continues to do to PVP? With each patch of content to the game, PVP moves further and further into the rear view mirror, cut off from the future and forever left in the past, to wither on the vine and die. I believe this is being done deliberately because: Crush has publically stated his contempt for PVP.
Crush has publically vocalize his desire to remove PVP from the game. Almost a full year later, Crush has done nothing to institutionalize PVP into the On-Alert Pass. When vocalized and viewed as the top thread in ?Online Discussions? the thread was locked and moved to the "Suggestions Box." Keep in mind, we have people talking about every topic under the sun in the "Online Discussions" yet the moment PVP becomes a hot topic, it's locked and killed.
I've come to the conclusion after measuring the actions of Crush and the development team that it?s their wish to phase out PVP from the game by never brining its content current with economy now in place.
How do we change this, we fight back.. I understand and accept that a lot of us don't agree on a great deal many things. But I feel we all agree that we enjoy CO PVP. I also feel this is enough for us to unite upon. If you want PVP to survive you will fight with me, let them know; you can lock our threads, you can silence us in the game and you can remove our Post's but you will not minimize us. We are not the 1%.
Please, unite with me, if you want pvp to survive, then fight with me, if we fail then at least we went out fighting for what was promised to us in the first place.
Sincerely,
Xeno
-
Recently I made this post; it received over 2,000 views and spanned 7 Pages long. In measurement to the other posts, it was the top most viewed topic.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=184551
It outlines what Crush committed too before the On Alert Pass:
1. Convert Acclaim to Questionite
2. Provide gear on the pvp vendors = Questionite rewards gear.
Simple, right?
What he did was.
1. Remove all of the existing pvp gear except for a few pieces.
2. Priced what little gear there was in acclaim @ 250,000k a pop, well outside anyone?s ability to obtain
3. Removed PVP from the new economy and from the future.
What this did and continues to do to PVP? With each patch of content to the game, PVP moves further and further into the rear view mirror, cut off from the future and forever left in the past, to wither on the vine and die. I believe this is being done deliberately because: Crush has publically stated his contempt for PVP.
Crush has publically vocalize his desire to remove PVP from the game. Almost a full year later, Crush has done nothing to institutionalize PVP into the On-Alert Pass. When vocalized and viewed as the top thread in ?Online Discussions? the thread was locked and moved to the "Suggestions Box." Keep in mind, we have people talking about every topic under the sun in the "Online Discussions" yet the moment PVP becomes a hot topic, it's locked and killed.
I've come to the conclusion after measuring the actions of Crush and the development team that it?s their wish to phase out PVP from the game by never brining its content current with economy now in place.
How do we change this, we fight back.. I understand and accept that a lot of us don't agree on a great deal many things. But I feel we all agree that we enjoy CO PVP. I also feel this is enough for us to unite upon. If you want PVP to survive you will fight with me, let them know; you can lock our threads, you can silence us in the game and you can remove our Post's but you will not minimize us. We are not the 1%.
Please, unite with me, if you want pvp to survive, then fight with me, if we fail then at least we went out fighting for what was promised to us in the first place.
Sincerely,
Xeno
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Post edited by nesn00000 on
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Comments
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
^^ This so much.
The fact is, some people have become so damn OP in PvP and farm the hell out of any new players who make the mistake of joining, leaving a sour taste in their mouth and then less and less people join up.
Crush is IMO working on MUCH more important things than PvP atm. Alot of people will be sore about the Imbue change and I can sympathize with them.
"Fighting back" against a developer team? Sorry but that seems a bit futile, you'll probably end up getting nerfed or something LOL, jks. But seriously, you can't blame a Dev or even a team of Devs for ruining PvP.
The actual problem is some players, if you look at the history of powers (I am talking holds wise here) people abused these powers so much and no they weren't "taking advantage fairly" they were abusing these powers which resulted in a massive blow to an entire game mechanic, and a band aid was slapped accross it labelled The Incapacitates System.
While I realise that PvP is dying out because people either don't play fair or simply want to have a good run and cannot because they just get Ebon FC loled, but saying because Crush doesnt like PvP doesnt mean he went out of his way to ruin it.
Your 3rd point isnt correct, PvP still exists, it's just people dont use the feature because it's generally a waste of time. AT PvP even has been affected, it's either filled with Unleashed, Blade and NA AT's running around or simply dead. Unrestricted Arenas...wow, I don't need to go into that, it's just crazy filled with FC's flying around with Ebon Ruins and AoPM builds (Generalization here).
I'm not sure what irritating a Dev will do for you or your cause, it will most likely get it killed off.
PvP has single handedly destroyed a game mechanic (one which is thankfully on the road to recovery thanks to guess who Gentleman Crush!). While I believe that PvP is a good mechanic for those who can enjoy it. It has caused a reasonable amount of frustration and ruination of good powers.
After saying what you have said I wouldnt be suprised if it was removed from the game. You claim that PvP has been removed from the new economy and from the future. You have no idea if they will revitalise PvP or not.
Stop pointing fingers at the Devs, some of the changes made are necessary.
Attributing blame to one developer as quasimojo1 said is counter productive. To get a point across and rally support usually requires setting out an idea or claim in a non confrontational matter first then highlighting key points. Not directing a complaint at someone and attributing all the blame to someone else.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
What Xeno is asking for is fair and reasonable.
He merely wants them(Cryptic) to finish the OnAlert pass for PvP.
Xeno is not asking for new powers, nor is He asking for nerfs or even a new arena.
All Xeno wants is for PvP players to be able to earn questionite, silver champs tokens through PvP(acclaim).
He wants PvPers to be able to have access to the same gear PvErs get through PvPing. Before the "OnAlert" pass of the game, people were able to get decent gear from PvP plus other cool things. There were more than just 2 pieces of gear in the store, and you could level by PvPing. PvP is a part of the game. Why should it get shutdown or marginalised?
I personally have gotten tired of PvE. The same zones, same missions, and now lesser rewards...
PvP provides a fun alternative to those who take the time to learn the system and those who enjoy playing against something other than predictable AI.
I wholeheartedly agree with Xeno as far as PvP getting what was promised.
@Scrizz :biggrin:
You are saying that pvp still exists but people dont play it because they just get FC ER rolled. Why did FC ER became so common ? Before the on alert patch there used to be many creative builds that'd perform great in PvP, not telling the patch was totally useless and full of junk but i'm sure this update being uncompleted is leaving PvP alone in itself so you have to pick up the common powers/powersets if you want to win.
Thats pathetic and AT LAST someone comes up with the idea of fixing PvP and you are going againts him. I cant see your point at all. - Spetzii
Before I jump into my reply i have one question, where you in gentle_men crush's channel when it was active or are you just in forumites?
In that channel Crush went after players and acted extremely un professional. Does that make it right to respond in the same way? in my opinion no but regardless the issue is still there. In news posts,forum links and in that channel the cryptic team mentioned what PvP would be receiving with on alert and when the time came we got two items and a crap ton of bugs.
Since on alert:
* the turrets in sh have gone in and out of being invincible
* the phone cables in bash are distorted
*acclaim was removed
*the Q requirement was changed to where 8 people most be in Q for anything other then bash to pop
The above are just a few issues.
During the on alert development in The Crush Chat channel:
*The pvpers in this game were referred to as the "1%"
* If PvP was mentioned in channel Crush made sure to end the topic with ether sarcasm or insult
*Crush said that pvp and pvpers alike didnt matter
The above is just a few complaints from that channel (a bit un professional no?)
Now to your mention of PvP single handed destruction of a game mechanic. Which mechanic is that exactly? Do you not realize that if something is broken in PvP then it is also broken in PvE? Difference is that PvPers push the mechanics of the game to the max constantly testing to improve their builds etc.. (generally speaking obviously not all players are alike). Majority of PvPers are on PTS as soon as any change to the combat or powers in the game happen testing and yes breaking the powers.
So are you saying that you are upset because PvPers helped Devs to realize a correction needs to be made in multiple powers etc thus causing the PvE game to almost not be easy? PvE in this game is a cake walk and the alerts at most were just a bandage to pass-ivy the masses(imo). The last big thing to happen in this game was vibora bay since then we have only received appetizers.
For alot of players in this game PvP is a break from the repetitiveness, a chance to put their builds to the test and for some the main reason they play this game. Majority of video game players don't just play one style but dabble in many so by attacking the PvP playstyle your not only affecting the hardcore PvPers but the casual pvpers and all other players he just like to do some hero games from time to time.
Regardless of how small a part of the game pvp is it is still part of the game. It is advertised in the videos section of the site, it has its own forum section and even thought they are broken it has pvp arenas in game. So what is there to gain by throwing an entire playstyle to the side? especially when it is openly advertised on the champs site and in game? You would think that a game would want to appeal to as many playstyles as possible in order to draw in the most customers right? Champions already has created the avenues in which to appeal to Rp,PvP and PvE but in my opinion they are not even coming close to using them to their potential.
As for your comment about the players killing pvp, well i can only argue that to an extent. There are many different type of people in this world thus many different type of players some are competitive some arent. In ever game i have ever played that was an mmo you had those elements, some like pvp some dont. Same thing happens in the real world with sports, some people will put in the work to get better at their sport other will just quit or remain at the same level. No one was created the same and real life so why should everyone be equal in anything else? if you work hard to get your gear and stats where you want it you should be able to beat the guy who doesnt, makes since right?
ether way you slice it their are issues in game that have not been addressed since on alert, they have straight up been neglected. Rather its the cause of one dev or many you can't really argue that. Has alot of it been placed on crush? yes it has because he made it that way with what he said and did etc..
You can say i feel they need to put more attention here or there. You can say well i dont like pvp anyways or make some imaginary numbers up. You can say a countless number of things but that does not change that items were promised and not delivered or that bugs have been around almost a year and not fixed.
Hope you enjoyed my rant, sorry for the jumping around, I have enjoyed this game of forum PvP why don't we do it in game some time!!
GMC is an employee who works on what he's told to work on. And he's got to work on it to the best of his ability, personal opinions aside, or he won't be employed for long...
If PvP is being ignored GMC is not the one at fault, his bosses are...
Your aggression is misdirected...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Pre-On Alert, PvP was a decent endgame. I liked to mix in PvP with lair runs, RP and costuming. I could get some sweet stuff from before On Alert by doing the best I could in PvP, and now it just totally isn't worth doing.
I'd take the days of Ego Storm being a cherrypicked power, relogging ZA players, and Palliated Stronghold bosses over the invincible turrets and everyone having pretty much the same build and just having two craptastic awards.
STOOOOOP right there! You're going to tell me what's more important than finding a reason to remain in this game for more than 1 month after hitting level 40. And even if he does, are you actually aware that this very Dev is also responsible of the joke that PvE is? But this time there's no 'you're only 2% of the community' excuse. Do you really think that making fancy vehicles and other stuff related to the recent cinema releases is more important than REAL content of just bug fixes?
What powers destroyed the game? If you don't slaughter, or get slaughtered with most of those it will be the mobs that will get slaughtered with. You'd need to be a masochist to think differently.
PVP rewards are a part of an unfinished/unpolished pass.
I would further speculate that GMC will work on whatever he's told to regardless of what he thinks.
Some of the things mentioned in this thread suggest that Devs should be officially gagged by whatever company they work for on the grounds that their opinions are not the same thing as company intentions.
That having been said it is time PVP rewards were finished properly, I'll try and remember to bump threads on this subject.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
There's no question PvP got the short end of the stick with the On Alert update.
But going after Crush individually, and using third-hand casual comments he made in chat against him, is just going to make him, and possibly other developers, less likely to communicate casually with the players in the future.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Yes, I question the honesty and integrity of a man that says he will do one thing then does the exact opposite while airing his outright contempt towards that player base...
-X
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First we should rename CoPvP to See Oh Pee Vee Pee just to show how care free the bloodshed in the arenas can be! It would be a flabbergasting thing for the devs to look at
You see, some of us were actively conversing with Crush before alerts hit. I remember being told that ctps would be available in a vendor. I stopped farming. 2 weeks before alert hit, I was told there was no vendor by folks from the forums, and farmed my **** off.
The very first time I saw Crush, he was effectively invulnerable on the top of the blimp, killing folks in one shot. The only reason any of us bothered was in hopes of some reward or perk. Nobody got a damn thing.
I also remember being told we don't matter. Yet, I lost count of all the alerts I've carried on my 40s because the lowbies were too underpowered to do anything but die to tough rank mobs. Suffice it to say, a large number of pvpers still have a pve background and participate in such.
Ultimately, a lot of folks have been left with a sour taste in their mouth. You still waste your time trying to get AT improvements and think Crush is busy with other "important" things?
The bugs have been getting worse, not better.
We have yet to see a new zone.
We have yet to see a single powerset get a serious pass.
Pvp rewards are still effectively non-existent.
Pvp is still "dead".
Right now, the only thing I can personally associate with Crush is the imbue nerf.
I'm sure Crush is busy with stuff - but considering that's been my personal experience, it should only make sense that I feel the way I do. Once you consider a number of people have had a similar experience, it should surprise that people have a "negative" association with a particular dev.
And this is true, but considering they don't provide an ounce of support to the wiki, and atm it looks like TT and Drannic are willing to speak to the players on a regular basis, that's not new.
Some of the plans he had for PvP that he said on his own channel and others were good he just hasnt been allowed to finish.
The blame doesnt lie with Crush but instead with those above him .
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You were not here when Crush himself committed in his expectations do to the very things I outlined in my post. Once again we are not speaking about new commitments, just the ones that were already given.
And honestly let’s just call a spade of a spade here; the entire game makes it through the pass except for the one aspect of it "PVP" which was deliberately left by the same guy who vocalized his outright contempt for it? Bringing PVP into the new economy required the least amount of effort, convert acclaim to questionite and put a few pieces of gear on the vendor. That’s it.
- X
He is very concerned with PvP. I am more than critical with the devs than most. I do not know who is setting the schedule, but I do not believe it is Gentleman Crush.
While he has time and opportunity to work on pet projects, working at Cryptic Studios is still a job.
Yea, we've heard that song and seen that dance before, right before he wiped the pvp vendors and cut pvp out of the On-Alert Pass.
Again, this is a simple as it gets. Convert acclaim to Questionite, restore the PVP vendors.
That's it. It's not complicated. What's complicated is saying you will do one thing then doing the exact opposite, I don't get that. Like saying your very concerned about pvp, then saying PVP is a waste of time.
-Xeno
I agree that PvP needs to be revitalized, I mean I never got to even try out the maps that were put in for higher level PvP, namely Stronghold as just one of them not to mention KoTH.
I do apologize if it came across as if I was trivializing this matter, but I had recently received good news about the mechanic (Crowd Control) which was largely killed off thanks to some PvP abusers and mis direction of blame on the part of Manevolent Manifestation and Binding of Aratron which lead to said nerf.
Again I will say, I do support the move to get PvP back into the system but focusing attacks and blame on one person is not the right way to go about it.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
I am referring to Crowd Control which was destroyed as some people abused advantages on Ego Storm and this resulted not only in nerfing Ego Storm but killing off Crowd Control as a mechanic leaving only a few charged holds to pick up the pieces of CC, and then in an attempt to fix this a band aid labelled The Incapacitates System was slapped on. I attribute such a blow to a mechanic to some in the PvP community.
Not saying this at all, I am upset that one of my favorite mechanics, the core of a number of my characters at the time, was wiped out entirely. Kind of similar to the Imbue shock which will hit alot of builds.
Unfortunately for me, I have had extremely bad interactions with PvP, this does not mean I view it as nothing, I love to watch people's hard work pay off, but not pay off on me, if you see what I mean. Using AT's for a while has had me innately nerfed to some extent especially my favorite AT's which seem to not do so well in PvP, namely Mind and Impulse. I realise this is not about AT's, but I was just giving an example. My comment about players killing PvP was because from what I can see, the AoPM, Imbue, UR and other power nerfs have mainly been influenced by some players exploiting them, who tend to be in the PvP crowd, as powers are nerfed people's builds can fall apart and they leave PvP resulting in a number drop.
Due to lack of knowledge about Crush before I started to speak to him in relatively casual contact and getting to be friends with people who speak to him often enough. I couldnt have known about what he said before hand.
Lol, If you dueled me in game you'd be suprised how hard I fail at PvP xD
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
I hope he hurries the hell up and gets that turd off the lawn.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
And I will say for the record that GMC has done an awesome job in powers creation and with the gear revamp. Maybe not perfect, but a fine showing nonetheless. I hope seeing this kind of bullcrap doesn't disuade him from working with the community, as he's done so well with in the past.
Leave it to PVP to try and get rid of the one Dev who actually works with the community.
He is much more concerned with PvP than I am, HAHA. PvP is a joke and has become nothing more than a ePeen contest with no participants, viewers, nor interested sponsors.
BUT Gentleman Crush still, consistently considers the implications of his actions on the greater PvP spectrum.. so much so that powers updates and new powers are thought of with these in mind.
- -
One proposed solution is not always (or usually) the best. I cannot see the Hero Games are making any comeback via the suggestion he previously announced - nor do I want them to.. But the real fix for PvP is making it ACCESSIBLE to all (even novice) players. Until Gentleman Crush finds a solution that succeeds at this objective, it's best for him not to put a band-aid on the Grand Canyon.
- -
The only real solution to Hero Games participation is making sure the "elite" crowd can have their fun, but not at the expense of the "casual" crowd. Until a REAL solution is put forth that is implementable to succeed at this.. I do not WANT him to put out some crap "solution" that makes it so only the elite FoTM builds get an enjoyable experience (and rewards) from the Hero Games.
True big promises were made and not followed through. BUT Crush is just one man and I have to say this ( sorry Crush no disrespect meant with the next comment ) is not as old as you would think and as far as I can see one of the rookie Devs of CO, there is no way he could have messed up PvP on his own, there is no way he would have been allowed to, theres no way he would have wanted to break a part of a game. From what I and others have heard from the man himself he has massive love for the game he was a player before a dev. Not someone that would intentionally break things.
You are calling out the wrong person Xeno try the guy who was in charge of Champions at the time.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's not a matter of just pvp - and as far as working with the community, if you were aware of the communities attempts to discuss and provide feedback on powers and such, you'd have a completely different stance.
But really, name something done well, as nothing has been without significant flaws, not to mention several powersets that have been in desperate need of attention long before alert ever hit
Yes it is awesome days for PVE is it not friend? So reverse roles. How would you feel if you loved a part of the game that was thriving and OVERNIGHT a Dev turns that which you enjoyed into a blasted barren waste land? Airing is our right contempt for you while doing it.
-X
Do you remember me? I know you remember me. I'm Xenomorph Drone@Nesno, you silenced me and muted me and banned me from the discussion channels when you were working with the community on the On-Alert Pass.
You did this because I said to your face what you were going to do too PVP and you did exactly what I said you were going to do. You promised me in our private conversation after you banned me that SPECIFIC things were being done for PVP in the Pass, so where are you now Cush? Where are all those things you promised you would do?
We are not the 2% Cush, I'm going to show you that we are not the 2%.
-Xeno
I dont think that alot of players can look at it that way nesno simply due to when they entered the game. Majority of the player posting for these changes and commenting on the things said in crushs channel were here during or prior to the conception of on alert. We also have the normal pvp trolls like the leader of a xman clone sg commenting in the threads trying to soften things and make it appear as if alot of us are just extreme. All this together makes it really hard for the newer players to understand where we are coming from.
So to the new guys I would suggest that you read over some of the older threads,talk to your friends in game who have been around a bit longer and just maybe do some research so that you understand these threads before posting. To the normal anti pvp trolls, hi how are you? nice to see you again, good to know you still cant come up with anything of substance. To players of all playstyles, thankyou for supporting your fellow players I have seen alot of people who dont even pvp supporting these fixes and its really cool to know we have a gaming community like that.
Favorite anti pvp troll lines:
From all xmen should have ego storm: I can't perma hold you waaaaaa!!(you caused this by combining all these CC powers with no attacks and making people in hero games matches just have to stand still the entire match ie not be killed or do anything just stand there)
general line: PvP sucks i cant instant win but in pve i rock (guys ones against a cpu thats set at a certain difficulty the other is against a human who adapts and builds on their characters).
Man these trolls are awesome, so intelligent and man do i want to be like them when i grow up!!
Neo (sorry shortened it cause the matrix , sounds cooler lol) Everyone has a right to their own opinion but as others stated before rp was not even a part of this topic but since you brought it in.....Rp in my opinion is being able to take a creative work or character you created and bring them to another level. I personally have used Rp when writing stories to help me get through writers block, I would created the character in game and then have fellow rpers help me break the character down ether through storyline or random questions. Alot of Rpers that I know or have met are writers and i see nothing wrong with them building on their stories through rp.
If people had no imagination and only stuck to what is in front of them then science wouldn't go anywhere. We just had horses and buggy's at one time but someone imagined a car!! the world need people that think outside the box, the world needs people that dream. People of this mind set in my opinion are what help keep us as a race moving forward, they are always thinking of new things or new ways to do something.
Now to somehow connect all this:
Rp much like its friend PvP has also been affected by on alert mainly due to the new crafting system. Before this system was in place rpers had many other venues in which to rp. They had all the crafting spots spread through out MC and now they have just simply been taken away. Now what gets me about this is that these places already existed in game, the work was already done so why get rid of them? I will say I have yet to see rp Openly mocked or insulted by a dev yet which brings us back to PvP!!
PvP needs some attention, if your going to advertise it on your own site through videos etc.. You should atleast make sure you are not falsely doing so by doing upkeep on the pvp systems.
1. Singling Crush out is not the most constructive way to go about this.
2. What is being asked for does not require a large amount of dev resources.
A. Daily missions are the least sophisticated kind of mission in the game. Its just a contact that rewards you questionite for things that are already present in the game.
B. A currency exchange rate between acclaim and recognition would be very ez to implement. A similer exchange (questionite/zen) already exist. An exchange rate between acclaim and recognition would mean that there would be no need to make new gear or costume piece rewards for PVP. This simple solution would allow all players to (pvp and pve) access to the same rewards.
3. I hope that the emotional charge of this post does not distract from the simplicity and practicality of what is being asked for.
4. Lairs got left out of the An Alert patch as well, but the devs put it on the Until field reports so we at least know its on the radar. I bet if PVP rewards were on the next until field reports, a lot of people wouldn't be as upset about the situation.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Quick note on RP, not all rp'rs are like the ones neojin777 met, most ive found seem more like the ones bloodx found. But I do know some rp is well not what most rp'rs want either.
back to the point PVP does add to the game so I vote yes for this threds suggestions.
nesn00000s responce is perfectly justified.
1. Whenever you marginalize any one especially in a social/public setting, the response will be emotional, irrational and negative. PVPers have been told that they are "insignificant" and subsequently lost the thing they care about the most (active pvp) because of this perceived insignificance.
These kinds of situations, rite or wrong, always bring a negative/emotional response and it would be irrational to expect otherwise.
Telling a part of your consumer base that they are "insignificant" is at the top of any businesses "don't do list" for obvious reasons.
You can have every preexisting condition, and any health insurance company will never publicly call you insignificant. Romny got caught doing this and caught hell for it too. No one is exempt.
2. Now i have been a long time PTS tester and i am usually (and literally) the first to commend GC on a good job. But, when he messes up, i feel the right to be equally as vocal.
Now to be fair, Many hands were in the "On Alert" pot, and i cant say for sure who is actually responsible for dropping the ball on this one.
But the truth is that as soon as GC said those things about pvp rite before pvp got gutted, he made it seem that he was letting his personal biases influence development direction and thus made himself a lightning rod for the backlash.
3. To give a counter example Tumer Boy would never say stuff like that (even though hes not a PVPer). As a matter of fact, Tunmer Boy even built a PVP arena in the power house for us even tho he doesn't care about pvp. Tumer Boy was always warm and friendly to every one (which is why he was so well l liked) and im sure if GC treated the PVP crowd like Tumer boy did, he wouldn't be experiencing the backlash he is now.
Yes i know that this post contradicts my previous post.
:mad:
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Oh, I get it now!
It's a vendetta. That's why you are purposefully ignoring the posts pointing out that GMC has no control over what he's working on and that his bosses are the ones responsible for PvP's current state...
Well, carry on then. Good luck with that...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Its a angry response, your right there but anyone would respond in the same after being treated the way the pvp playerbase has been. Now your prolly right crush may not be solely to blame for the current pvp state of the game but if you were in his channel then you know he didn't lift a finger to stop it. In fact he said we were insignificant and the 2% etc.. the list goes on.
So if a dev is saying those things, muting or banning players from a channel if they bring up pvp, claiming that they are in charge of working on those items for on alert then man arent they painting them self responsible for said items. Thus when promises arent fulfilled, bugs arent fixed and the simplest of things left wrong you kinda get upset at sadi person especially when its a whole year later. You can't paint yourself as this big shot and only take credit for the positive things (the few there are), you have to take credit for it all.
So rather it was all crushs fault or just part his actions and words brought him the love he is currently getting!!
You don't get it, because you lack a frame of reference.
I was in the channel, I know I was there and Crush and I had a lengthy 1 on 1 session in front of the entire COPVP community. Many of the people you see speaking now WAS in that channel the day I was silenced for pointing out to Crush that he was going to leave PVP out of the "On-Alert Pass" That is the FACTS folks.
You cannot change that, PVP IS NOT aligned with the basic principles of the On-Alert Pass.
You cannot change that I said he was going to do exactly that and I was banned and muted for saying it.
You cannot change that Crush has openly expressed his contempt for us as a player base
You cannot change that THE ENTIRE GAME makes it through the pass yet PVP is somehow the only aspect that does not? Seriously?! And I'm supposed to act naive about the motivations behind that to appeal to your delicate sensibilities about manners? I have a guy who muted me, banned me, talked down to me and lied to me and I'm not allowed to voice my opinion on that matter?
Yes, I'm poised to defend myself and why I've paid over 3 years of subscrition cost to this MMO for just a tiny piece of it. Why does PVE get new content every month and we cant even get through the Pass A FULL YEAR LATER. so YES, AS LOUD AS POSSIABLE - I am calling him out. THIS BS should of been called out a long time ago.
-Xeno
I just feel you believe GMC has far more power at Cryptic than he actually has...
I'm a trainer and some of my classes are very popular. I can't count the number of times I've scheduled a training only to have my boss cancel the class and give me another assignment that he feels has higher priority. It's what bosses do, and GMC has bosses...
I can see you calling him out for being unprofessional for his statements and actions. But I feel you are incorrect in placing the entire blame for the current state of PvP (which no one can deny is woeful) on GMC's shoulders...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
I never saw any PvE build posted here that for example used Force Geyser.
It's clear to me that some folks are pro-PvP, I.E. enjoying the endgame aspects that Champions Online has to offer, and others are pro-PvE, I.E. enjoying repeating the same processes over and over that brought them to level 40 in the first place. Why the second group, who have been regularly posting in this thread, are going out of their way to thwart a better end-game experience for the first group is beyond me. Aren't we all in the same boat? Even RPers have been brought up in this discussion. Well, I am certain RPers don't like that some powers need balancing or to conform to use such powers or be beaten every time, right? So in what way are PvPers ruining that aspect for them? Also, RPers have nothing to do with this topic, as much as I despise RPers. This is a PvP topic. PvP has been ignored long enough. PvPers have been treated like dirt long enough. And why? I want to know why...
PvPers are typically monthly Gold members, although a lot of them have purchased lifetime memberships. A few have gone to the way of the Freeform slot... So, regardless of what type of PvPer YOU are, why is it then acceptable to allow this game to completely crap on the entire aspect of PvP in CO? Where is the real justification? I have yet to see any logical remarks regarding this...
So maybe Xeno was wrong to single out G_Crush, and maybe he wasn't. G_Crush has put himself in this position due to his remarks and treatment of a paying playerbase. Is G_Crush wrong to ignore PvPers? GD Right he is. We pay money to play this game, so therefore, we are CUSTOMERS. Unfortunately for PvPers, we get no customer satisfaction. How will this result? No more hardcore CO PvPers will bother playing this crap game. Sure that opens doors for new players, but it's a vicious cycle. In months or years these new guys will figure out that PvP rewards are lacking, or that certain power combinations make playing anything else futile. Etc, etc...
What can be done? Well for starters, G_Crush, and his uppers, can take notice to this thread, realize that for once they should stop focusing on pointless PvE crap that means nothing post-lvl 40, and then they could SATISFY those who pay to play this game post-lvl 40 for it's PvP content. Will that happen? I don't know. I want to answer this with a NO, because from what I've experienced thus far, Cryptic would rather lose paying PvPers than satisfy them.
It's a BIG problem now, but maybe not BIG enough to make them care. So what remains? The result of their negligence. People stop subscribing monthly, at the very least. I'm a monthly subscriber. I sure as f*ck can slander these jerks with youtube videos as well. It's the only means I have to fight back. Make several videos letting other prospective PvPers to the world of CO know that it's pointless. That they will be ignored. That their money will be taken month after month and they will receive no satisfaction. It's my last resort if Crypitic should fail to change their ways.
Help PvPers, don't shun us. Give us back our rewards. Give us Acclaim to Questionite Exchange. It's that simple.
Stop trying to bring it back to this. You are not going to tell me the entire game made it through the "On-Alert Pass," except for throwing a few pieces of gear on the vendor and modify Acclaim to Questionite? You seriously think that takes more than a few hours? You honestly believe that? Are you not paying attention to these posts? The ENTIRE community will back me when I tell you, Cush would sit in the channel and MOCK you if you were a PVP'r. He would Silence for even mentioning the word.
PvP intentionally did not make it through the On Alert Pass on purpose. Not a week, not a few months, a year.
1. It's unacceptable, openly admitting your disdain for a player base.
2. It's unacceptable that He in open channel tell everyone Acclaim is going to be wiped and will convert to Questionite? And then do the exact opposite.
3. It's unacceptable that we were promised in Open Channel New Gear and then get NOTHING.
4. It's unacceptable that its been a year and our posts are locked and we are told we are worth nothing, over and over again and all we want is to be included!
Cush stand up and do WHAT YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO DO.
-Xeno
Please tell me your being sarcastic. If something is broken in an aspect of the game it is broken period. The reason its not noticed in pvp is simple, who is going to complain about their theme character being to strong? If you have been on pts at all then you would know that what I said is true.
We have all seen your anti pvp posts beldin we know you hate pvp and for no other reason then just cause is what i have gathered from most of your posts. My question to you is this, How does helping a part of champions even if its a part of champions you don't like hurt you?
Making Champions more open to multiple playstyles does nothing but bring in more people. How is that a bad thing? Most players play multiple playstyles so you may even make new friends from something like that.
Also just cause you don't use force geyser doesnt mean others don't. Just because I power isnt used doesnt mean its not bugged or broken.
Mal I agree with you on a alot of things a good bit of the time but adding sarcastic or negative things about other playstyles isnt helping pvp much. We have a good bit of people supporting pvp getting some attention and alot of them dont even pvp. The best way to go about this is as a community, the more the better.
In my opinion the best way for champs to keep moving forward in a positive light is for it to support fully and equally all the playstyles it offers.
What "negative" or "sarcastic" things did I say?
I am not Chuck Norris, but I approve this message.
You said first "If its broken in PvP its also broken in PvE". No i want just to know where
Force Geyser is broken in PvE. Its cleary a power everyone abuses in PvP, but i don't
even know anybody who uses it in PvE, so .. where is it broken in PvE ?
And also .. i don't even see really many people using Force Cascade in PvE .. personally
i never used it at all.
AoPM is maybe used by 10-15% of the players in Alerts .. also hardly that overpowered
that nearly everyone uses it.
How do nerfs to powers, that are no problem in PvE, don't hurt me ? First nerf i remember
was Teleport after constantly crying and whining from PvP. I never used teleport again
after that btw. since without the old pros its just not worth the cons it has for traveling
longer distances.
I don't hate PvP .. i just don't like the nerf-herder that just because they got beaten in PvP
start to cry for nerfs.
I really wished that all game designers were so wise to do it like they did in Everquest 2
where they used 2 different sets for powers in PvP and PvE, so they could change powers
for for PvP without affecting the PvE players. Sadly they didn't even did that in RIFT where
i really expected that with Scott Hartsman as Producer.
And i also hated what the PvP whiners in RIFT did to my Warrior.
Aside from whatever Nephy says which is actually a bit entertaining - the rest of the thread is mostly.... just bleh.
Suffice it to say whats left of the pvp community generally has a very negative association with a particular dev and is so bitter and fed up that they're venting their frustrations openly.
Um dose Crush even have the ability to mute another player except possibly within his own custom channel?
I would think it just as likely that several members of the channel decided either as individuals or as a group to ignore and or report you for spamming thus resulting in a ban.
Also if he did actually do all those things you say he did then at the very least he would have revived a telling of from those higher up than he
You just answered your own question in a way. If we all use the same powerset and after review of complaints or just after a review in general the power is determined to not be working correctly then it gets fixed. If a power is putting out to much damage it is putting out to much damage, its pretty simple. You just dont notice it as much in pve because those powers are no being used against you or in the same way but the numbers are still the same.If the power puts out say 300 dmg and devs say thats way to much then it gets fixed, thats an across the board thing cause as you said the powers we use in champions are all the same.
Also just because you don't use a power in pve doesnt mean its not used in PvE. For example all PvPers have to pve for their gear , lol everyone has to pve for their gears so im pretty sure majority if not all powers are used in pve.
Also we are not talking about nerfs in this thread we are talking about fixing some bugs that have been around for a year. We are talking about delivering what was told we would have with on alert(updated currency and gear). None of this hurts you it just makes the game better in general.
The reason you don't here complaints from PvE like you do from PvP is because no one gets upset when they can solo teliosaur or any other content in this game.
Yes the community being upset with that particular dev is part of it but you know the same as I that the things mentioned in this thread need a look. These bugs have been around to long and its been a year and we still dont have what we were told we would have with on alert.
No doubt - I just hate how the complaints need to be so extensive when all the hoopla could be avoided. If player feedback played a key role in the decision-making process, so many of the problems that arise would never exist, and those that did come up would be dealt with in a timely manner.
I mean, it's like the players have to throw a tantrum and be kicking and screaming before something gets noticed, and when it should be a much more symbiotic relationship between the player base and dev team.
@theravenforce apply... brain to skull? o0
Things that need fixed or have something done about them:
Stronghold Turrets need fixed due to them going invincible from time to time
Bash cables need returned to their original state they are all kinds of distorted right now
Convert Acclaim to Questionite
Provide gear on the pvp vendors
the Q requirement was changed to where 8 people most be in Q for anything other then bash to pop. I don't know how this should be fixed but it needs to be addressed.
A developer acting unprofessional and treating cryptic/PW customers in a negative way openly.