Tanks were barely able to hold agro over DPSers even when trying their hardest, being in the right role and constantly using Crippling Challenge. Now it will be even harder to agro.
I see what you are doing, devs. You WANT players to stop using melee.
They totally can hold the aggro if the DPSers learn to wait some seconds before to rush the boss. As in all mmos. Try to rush in any other mmo with your dps without waiting some seconds to let the tanks build his agro and see what the result for your character.
Yes there is a notion of teamplay. And there is also, some ways to reset agro with dps characters. The dps role isn't intended to rush and spam dps buttons only, all over the fight.
Imbue change doesnt change anything, even so, now its even beter than before.
As usual cryptic thinks they know what needs to be changed in a power, but endup messing up even more
GG
Thank you for boosting FC damage for ~ 30%
If you want to fix it, make it "scales on your current energy"
To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p
Sorry, but I have to disagree. The new Imbue is most effective when you are at 1/3 health. For whom is it easier/more likely to be fighting at 1/3 health, a tank or a DPS character? I don't see this power being more useful for tanks AT ALL; in it's current form it will mostly be used to increase the crit severity of crit-based DPS toons.
As i say, i will test this later in the day.
If you are right, my words don't have any reason to be anymore.
(but the fact end or rec are totally useless in this game in comparison with others stats)
but i must admit that read that is, how to say, worrying:
Thank you for boosting FC damage for ~ 30%
If you want to fix it, make it "scales on your current energy"
To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p
And it's cool to see others players have the same idea to give a good incentive to the end and rec stats. And avoid some future builds which will be too much OP.
A ranged tank will always be better than a melee one. And a tank should be able to pull agro from DPSers no matter then they get in the fight.
I'm just sad that now my tank will never be able to crit. This is just another power that melee toons have to be without because its abused by every build. If they have to do this than at least keep original imbue that works for melee attacks only and put it in the Brick set.
To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p
I got an Int/End/Rec cascade build which has a base 41% crit chance and 75% severity. Sounds like a good deal to me!
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p
Not entirely true. My character Nova Remnant is Ego/Int/Rec and her FC costs 45-132 energy to fire off without an energy form. With an energy form it's 25-72 or so to fire off.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Why's your tank unable to crit? Using level 40 blue gear or Silver Champs Rec gear, characters who don't even have Dex SS'd can get 30%+ crit chance. I have a Heavy Weapons/Darkness tank (Con Dex Int again, ugh what a great combo) and she crits hard and crits often, doing the damage required to hold aggro along with Challenges wherever I could get them (namely Cleave)
Nowhere near as effective as I-Inhale-My-Enemy's-Body-Odor-To-Survive tanks, but fun to play and can hold aggro like a pro.
Why's your tank unable to crit? Using level 40 blue gear or Silver Champs Rec gear, characters who don't even have Dex SS'd can get 30%+ crit chance. I have a Heavy Weapons/Darkness tank (Con Dex Int again, ugh what a great combo) and she crits hard and crits often, doing the damage required to hold aggro along with Challenges wherever I could get them (namely Cleave)
Nowhere near as effective as I-Inhale-My-Enemy's-Body-Odor-To-Survive tanks, but fun to play and can hold aggro like a pro.
Also, no Imbue.
You really don't get it do you...
Do you really not see any problem with the fact nearly every build is required to take crits in order to stay competitive?
Imbue didn't even fix this problem! It was moreso one of the bandaids on the giant gaping sore that is a flat damage builds after On Alert. I guess completely screwing over melee and flat damage builds (RIP Might, which happens to be both) wasn't enough, they have to start ripping off people's personal bandaids. For once, I knew better, and started moving all my characters over to crit, no point even resisting this all crit future we're headed to.
Hell, even Imbue is *technically* a crit. But I guess they want everyone playing the damage slot machine for some reason. Maybe PWE thought it'd be a good way to condition people into buying future grab bags or something.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I have a 0.1% chance to crit. Con, Str, Int. And I use Brick powers. I'm geared to survive and agro and not be knocked around, and Brick gives me little to agro hard with unless I can get a guaranteed crit when it counts (every 15 seconds at most). Damage is the way to hold agro in this game.
If this goes through, Tank role better get a HUGE agro buff. But I rather the devs really reconsider this.
Why's your tank unable to crit? Using level 40 blue gear or Silver Champs Rec gear, characters who don't even have Dex SS'd can get 30%+ crit chance. I have a Heavy Weapons/Darkness tank (Con Dex Int again, ugh what a great combo) and she crits hard and crits often, doing the damage required to hold aggro along with Challenges wherever I could get them (namely Cleave)
Sure, it is indeed possible and easy to gear tanks and healers for high crit %. However, it is nice to have more than one viable gearing strategy. Currently my healer is geared for +Healing bonuses. My tank that uses Imbue is geared for +Offense. Imbue filled a niche for these types of builds that wanted to be able to have a less frequent, but more reliable spike. And I think it generally worked fine, it just had a couple of small bugs that needed fixed.
That's another other issue with this change. It potentially breaks entire builds in a way that it takes more than a Retcon to fix, i.e. regearing.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Yeah, it sucks that we all have to take crits to stay competitive, but that's what you gotta do in order to keep up with the other players nowadays. Until flat damage is supported again (go support that one thread with the Brutality toggle) it really is best to just bite the bullet and take the crits.
Also, isn't Healing Bonus statistically superior to crit chance? + Offense hits obscene diminishing returns though.
That's another other issue with this change. It potentially breaks entire builds in a way that it takes more than a Retcon to fix, i.e. regearing.
I hate that I'm the one regurgitating this, because for once in a blue moon I was flat out wrong, but in hindsight the Cottage Rule was a really good idea, at least to an extent. I hated this and considered it a pile of crap in its time, but I'm starting to see *why* they were so strict about it at times.
Still too strict in my opinion, but given that I've seen the alternative in action I can't say I completely blame them anymore. Also, in their defense, they started easing up on it later on in the places where it mattered, I. E. Moment of Glory, Energize, etc.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
oh god, i expected comments "i use END/ REC and im ok" xD
silly lowbies
In a world where we have Int and MSA you dont need REC / END
"I got an Int/End/Rec cascade build which has a base 41% crit chance and 75% severity. Sounds like a good deal to me!"
Get INT EGO/CON , mass out CON , use Imbue and GG you have ~120% severity
Or jsut use EGO ss and have ~ 125 severity 40% crit chance with AOPM / Crit gear
Seams like a much beter deal to me.
"Not entirely true. My character Nova Remnant is Ego/Int/Rec and her FC costs 45-132 energy to fire off without an energy form. With an energy form it's 25-72 or so to fire off."
I can see how good you are, what im talking about is Damage boost from Imbue should scale on those SS.
But oh well, then CO wouldn't be the easyest game in the world
The notion that Imbue was most useful for healers and tanks has never been true. Ever.
You can't just point to the stats imbue scaled off and say "Con! Pre! Tank! Healer!" Any DPSer can minor in Con or Pre for survivability stats, take Imbue, and be a highly survivable DPSer that dishes out higher spike damage than anyone else that doesn't have Imbue.
If your real issue is the fact that Healers/Tanks get nothing to really boost their own DPS, perhaps you should address that issue directly instead of screaming bloody murder about Imbue. I suggest lobbying for new powers that actually address that issue instead of masking it.
Also I agree that it's ridiculous how crit-centeric DPS has become, but that's a base systemic issue now. Imbue never alleviated that issue -- it's made it worse if anything.
Not an AOPM build, my point was that having this scale off End/Rec might not be such a fix as the poster intended. Point is any build can have good crit rate and like you say the AOPM can fix any shortcomings up thus giving us the same OP'd ness only different.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
The notion that Imbue was most useful for healers and tanks has never been true. Ever.
You can't just point to the stats imbue scaled off and say "Con! Pre! Tank! Healer!" Any DPSer can minor in Con or Pre for survivability stats, take Imbue, and be a highly survivable DPSer that dishes out higher spike damage than anyone else that doesn't have Imbue.
If your real issue is the fact that Healers/Tanks get nothing to really boost their own DPS, perhaps you should address that issue directly instead of screaming bloody murder about Imbue. I suggest lobbying for new powers that actually address that issue instead of masking it.
Also I agree that it's ridiculous how crit-centeric DPS has become, but that's a base systemic issue now. Imbue never alleviated that issue -- it's made it worse if anything.
RIP Imbue. You will not be missed.
You exaggerate the situation to make it larger than the minority issue it is, put way too much faith in what the developers are willing or able to spend time doing, if not do period, and end with something that is very clearly a lie given many of the responses in this thread.
Good job.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
The notion that Imbue was most useful for healers and tanks has never been true. Ever.
You can't just point to the stats imbue scaled off and say "Con! Pre! Tank! Healer!" Any DPSer can minor in Con or Pre for survivability stats, take Imbue, and be a highly survivable DPSer that dishes out higher spike damage than anyone else that doesn't have Imbue.
If your real issue is the fact that Healers/Tanks get nothing to really boost their own DPS, perhaps you should address that issue directly instead of screaming bloody murder about Imbue. I suggest lobbying for new powers that actually address that issue instead of masking it.
Also I agree that it's ridiculous how crit-centeric DPS has become, but that's a base systemic issue now. Imbue never alleviated that issue -- it's made it worse if anything.
RIP Imbue. You will not be missed.
We had a power that addressed the issue. It was called Imbue. It worked great. PVPers and Devs ruined another great power for PVE. Now our healers cant save us with a great boost in the Boss fights, instead we get a waste of an AO. Great work.
Though maybe I am bitter for wasting the thousnads of Globals building all my toons that will now be scrap.
I wonder if the replacement for imbue now will be something like taking an offense passive,
maybe Night Warrior, switch roles for Alpha Strike to offensive, make Alpha and switch back
to defense after that
We had a power that addressed the issue. It was called Imbue. It worked great. PVPers and Devs ruined another great power for PVE. Now our healers cant save us with a great boost in the Boss fights, instead we get a waste of an AO. Great work.
Though maybe I am bitter for wasting the thousnads of Globals building all my toons that will now be scrap.
To be fair, it never was more than a supplemental for damage or healing. I can crit 2K+ HP a tic on a build that isn't really centered on healing with Empathic. I don't even use Imbue in that build. I can toss Bionic on top of that, which doesn't even crit, for what is basically an instant 5K HP if the target is eating hits from a lot of sources of damage.
What's really **** about this, is that it's a hit to the already dieing breed of On Next Hits, and to be quite frank, it wasn't breaking anything outside of heavy abuse cases. Which, knowing this game's PvP and even some of the PvE community, give it a few weeks and they'll find something else to abuse, and proceed to gripe until that's pummeled.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I have a 0.1% chance to crit. Con, Str, Int. And I use Brick powers. I'm geared to survive and agro and not be knocked around, and Brick gives me little to agro hard with unless I can get a guaranteed crit when it counts (every 15 seconds at most). Damage is the way to hold agro in this game.
If this goes through, Tank role better get a HUGE agro buff. But I rather the devs really reconsider this.
...so, you'd rather have what, 500 more HP instead of a 30% chance to crit? Or do you have +Healing slotted in instead?
CO has been changed around so everyone period should have a great crit chance. Period. Always. I don't know if it's supposed to be intentional or not, but that's how it's designed.
Frankly, if you don't have a +Crit Chance item slotted into your primary slots, you're doing it wrong.
And I've also seen fantastic tanks in CO that never touched Imbue ever and ALWAYS maintain aggro. It takes a Champion (not a player, one of the actual Champions who have insane damage and are +20 levels to the player) to break aggro off of them. Why can't you tank?
In short, old Imbue was broken. It should never have been like how it was, and it got even worse when combined with things like Revitalize.
As a non-PvP'er who used Imbue as it was intended on basic Tank and Healer builds, you're basically going to make me at least have to Retcon, and likely regear, two toons for what is primarily a PvP balance issue.
Why not just fix the two main issues with Imbue:
1.) Cap the severity scaling
2.) Make the Imbue effect consume correctly after use
Wouldn't that be easier and more effective than breaking a bunch of builds and creating a new power that makes DPS spikes 30% bigger?
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
As a non-PvP'er who used Imbue as it was intended on basic Tank and Healer builds, you're basically going to make me at least have to Retcon, and likely regear, two toons for what is primarily a PvP balance issue.
Why not just fix the two main issues with Imbue:
1.) Cap the severity scaling
2.) Make the Imbue effect consume correctly after use
Wouldn't that be easier and more effective than breaking a bunch of builds and creating a new power that makes DPS spikes 30% bigger?
wait wait wait.. WAIT.... you expect cryptic to... FIX STUFF? O_O"
last time they tryed to fix something the whole chat system was down for a week =O!
I can see how good you are, what im talking about is Damage boost from Imbue should scale on those SS.
But oh well, then CO wouldn't be the easyest game in the world
Yes, I'm fully aware that you were talking about the damage boost of Imbue, but if you were to pay attention to the part of your post that I quoted - you made it sound like you need absurd amounts of energy to put out absurd damage when, in fact, you don't. I mentioned my FC because you singled out FC as part of your post on damage with "To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p".
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
We had a power that addressed the issue. It was called Imbue. It worked great. PVPers and Devs ruined another great power for PVE.
Imbue wasn't adressing anything, you don't solve the game's exagerated crit dependancy by providing a super crit damage power. This has nothing to do with imbue, this is a gameplay mechanics flaw.
Once again if you are building a tank and crying out for high damage you're doing it wrong, you've chosen defense over the rest, deal with it. Imbue was a stupid power allowing to get the best of both worlds: best defense and best spike damage at the same time. This is not how things work.
Now our healers cant save us with a great boost in the Boss fights, instead we get a waste of an AO. Great work.
I don't know any good healer relying on imbue in order to heal a team. You don't need imbue at all to heal others.
We had a power that addressed the issue. It was called Imbue. It worked great. PVPers and Devs ruined another great power for PVE. Now our healers cant save us with a great boost in the Boss fights, instead we get a waste of an AO. Great work.
Though maybe I am bitter for wasting the thousnads of Globals building all my toons that will now be scrap.
Iniquity, the strongest targeted heal, can't crit. And even without crits, I do 4k HPS on my healer just by spamming Iniquity.
Imbue wasn't adressing anything, you don't solve the game's exagerated crit dependancy by providing a super crit damage power. This has nothing to do with imbue, this is a gameplay mechanics flaw.
Once again if you are building a tank and crying out for high damage you're doing it wrong, you've chosen defense over the rest, deal with it. Imbue was a stupid power allowing to get the best of both worlds: best defense and best spike damage at the same time. This is not how things work.
I don't know any good healer relying on imbue in order to heal a team. You don't need imbue at all to heal others.
Its not tanks in general asking for super damage, its the poor MIGHT tanks. Lets remember that we have animations are are hilariously long and damage that would tickle a kitten (maybe a bit of a stretch but you get it).
I have several Might toons, I don't need imbue in order to have them do what they are supposed to do. Yes the Might set lost a lot with Aggressor's nerf and I still think this was a mistake, but no, Imbue is not the solution.
Well, My might tank has just been crippled damage wise with this. Whats next nerf UR?
Maybe you didn't realize that a CON based tank isn't supposed to hit like a train. You want to hit hard? Make a build more focused on offense. "I don't understand why my damage output isn't very high when I put all my points in CON for more HPs". Seriously?
I have several Might toons, I don't need imbue in order to have them do what they are supposed to do. Yes the Might set lost a lot with Aggressor's nerf and I still think this was a mistake, but no, Imbue is not the solution.
Maybe you didn't realize that a CON based tank isn't supposed to hit like a train. You want to hit hard? Make a build more focused on offense. "I don't understand why my damage output isn't very high when I put all my points in CON for more HPs". Seriously?
This would be a viable and understandable statement IF the other tank builds weren't superior. Yes, Imbue was not the answer for the long run and the real issue of might. However, now it is even weaker compared to other options. Theme is the only real reason to keep them around now.
I really don't understand the "might sucks for tanking" thing I have seen lately coming from some people.
I've been tuning Brou for years, and the thing I notice in build adjustments the most is that if you throw your chips into con all the way it's asking for problems. I personally had to back off of full defense as a former con primary to get the most out of the character. Without taking any measure of crowd control into your gameplay or damage stat/spec options, you won't get far at all.
Now I wouldn't claim to know your exact build, but how deeply have you invested in defense that the loss of that crit ruins everything? I hear mention of con primary. Is the dex for dodge talent being skipped? That lets you make a major investment that helps you in two ways.
I really don't understand the "might sucks for tanking" thing I have seen lately coming from some people.
I've been tuning Brou for years, and the thing I notice in build adjustments the most is that if you throw your chips into con all the way it's asking for problems. I personally had to back off of full defense as a former con primary to get the most out of the character. Without taking any measure of crowd control into your gameplay or damage stat/spec options, you won't get far at all.
Now I wouldn't claim to know your exact build, but how deeply have you invested in defense that the loss of that crit ruins everything? I hear mention of con primary. Is the dex for dodge talent being skipped? That lets you make a major investment that helps you in two ways.
Thats the thing Brou, I havent thrown my chips into one basket. I try to keep Novocain pretty well rounded. As we all know however having a STR primary is never going to give as much bang for your buck as a crit monkey or epidemic tank. Imbue with UR was one one big attack that you could do once in a while to let people know you were there. I'm not asking for a tank mage, I'm wanting might to not be the slow sluggish low damage option.
I don't like how threat management works. Too much damage reliant, not that tanks don't deal enough damage, sure you can turn your tank into a crit machine, but that shouldn't be an obligation for a non-DPS role, and that also means that if you join the fight too late you won't be able to take back the aggro from the DPS/Hybrids because they have already dealt tons of damage. I prefered CoH's mechanics regarding aggro management.
I don't like how threat management works. Too much damage reliant, not that tanks don't deal enough damage, sure you can turn your tank into a crit machine, but that shouldn't be an obligation for a non-DPS role, and that also means that if you join the fight too late you won't be able to take back the aggro from the DPS/Hybrids because they have already dealt tons of damage. I prefered CoH's mechanics regarding aggro management.
That is why FF dps or healers do well to take an agro whipe (if only cryptic would fix smoke bomb).
1. The pvp community has NO influence over what goes on in CO.
2. If pvp is so influential, why cant we get basic stuff like rewards or questionite?
3. The PVP community has been only a few dozen since On alert.
4. The PVP forums are the least active part of the CO forums.
5. The devs have openly stated that they see PVP as insignificant.
Stop using PVP to rationalize your greed to have big spikes on any build in any role. Saying the PVP community has the power to get something nerfed is like saying the RP community has the power to get something nerfed.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
That is why FF dps or healers do well to take an agro whipe (if only cryptic would fix smoke bomb).
The fix should not be on the DPSers end. The Tank should be able to maintain that aggro, and to be honest this is the only game I have personally played where a tank can so easily have his aggro yanked. DPSers keep on doing what you do, the devs need to fix our inability to keep things from walking right past us..(shockwave for one).
Sigma speaks the truth. They won't give us good PvP rewards, of course, to prevent a similar situation pre-On Alert: PvP gear was the best gear and got more people PvPing, if only to farm ZA. Rather than fix the relogging bug or make gear that was just as good and just as achievable for PvE, they just made the rewards for PvP terrible.
Also, I seriously haven't had any issue taking and holding aggro on my tank. It's as easy as lunge, Eruption, Cleavespam and Eruption again, repeat repeat repeat, maybe use BCR and Conviction every so often to keep myself going, Masterful Dodge if things get hairy, R3 Evasive Maneuvers for a dodge boost of epic proportions, etc. etc.
If it is really only about threat using might powers, why not use defensive combo with taunt adv for single targets, and iron cyclone with taunt and knock adv for groups.
Sigma speaks the truth. They won't give us good PvP rewards, of course, to prevent a similar situation pre-On Alert: PvP gear was the best gear and got more people PvPing, if only to farm ZA. Rather than fix the relogging bug or make gear that was just as good and just as achievable for PvE, they just made the rewards for PvP terrible.
Also, I seriously haven't had any issue taking and holding aggro on my tank. It's as easy as lunge, Eruption, Cleavespam and Eruption again, repeat repeat repeat, maybe use BCR and Conviction every so often to keep myself going, Masterful Dodge if things get hairy, R3 Evasive Maneuvers for a dodge boost of epic proportions, etc. etc.
We all know its not a fine art to tank. I do this same exact dance with different powers. Problem is when a healer or hard hitting DPSer comes strolling in and takes it from you. Skill at that point isn't whats failing you. Honestly, How many times has anyone used shockwave full maintain and had a full mob stroll by embarrassing you. Don't even get me started on the serious lack of KB protection a tank( or anyone for that matter) has against KBers.
As elementary as it may seem, we need a visual of how much threat we have. A meter perhaps right on our UI. So we can see visually how much threat our toon is generating. On a side note..What the hell is it with all the spam on the forums lately??!! Anyone notice these posts.
As elementary as it may seem, we need a visual of how much threat we have. A meter perhaps right on our UI. So we can see visually how much threat our toon is generating. On a side note..What the hell is it with all the spam on the forums lately??!! Anyone notice these posts.
Yay .. finally somebody said it : WE NEED DAMAGE-METERS !!!!
This... The few times I play a tank for like 5 hours before getting dreadfully bored of never dying, it's comically easy to hold threat by using basically any attack+Crippling Challenge, especially if you take the protector spec that increases your threat in hybrid stance...
Also I have evasive maneuvers+adv on all of my DPS toons. It (or palliate) is a -must- if you don't want to end up being the dpstank with <5k hp.
It's good to have a few things back on PTS like telepathy powers.
I note that unless I super stat in INT my cooldowns are still ridiculous for the telepathy powers. Mental Storm in particular is dreadful.
As much as I like the telepathy powers some more powers could be added and some need to be tweaked.
Also old bug or healing and rezzing enemies is back, causing stacking to benefit your foes upon detonation. >_>;
Now about Force...
I've been hearing stuff about END/REC and Force Cascade and something about damage? Can someone please clarify what is going on with this? Does it give me a reason to be excited with regards to my PFF Impulse with 312 END?
Hum. I don't see the point here to be based on CON. Players ask you to have tanks who can do damage without crit and severity, and you're doing a new activable offense based on CON which give... crit and severity. No sense.
Stop to give at tanks and hybrids a dps which is too much more important regards to their defense capacity, please. Who're doing the 5 man's lairs, solo ? Certainly not the other roles than principally tanks and hybrids...
END or REC are two stats which almost not taken by the players. The END or REC mods have no value. Simply do imbue based on END or REC stat. They will perhaps have an utility now.
Hmm no...I'd advocate END to give an innate bonus to ALL shielding powers and defense. It would not only fit it's name but give it a purpose.
Perhaps in a similar fashion to PRE's innate healing bonus.
Rec, perhaps would increase rate of out of combat HP regen and perhaps give a boost to in combat HP regen.
Also another thing....until IDF is brought up to standard please give the option to choose between Concentration and IDF for Impulse AT and remove the unnecessary Force Snap and put in Conviction so we can survive please.
I know there are bigger things to worry about such as Imbue's current state and the change (which will kill of alot of builds I have been told), but the Impulse change especially and END change will help alot.
On another note, Has anyone considered making more offensive abilities scale on recovery? Perhaps Nimble Mind on Ego Surge... Or anything, something that would benefit the use of recovery, suggestions anyone?
Comments
They totally can hold the aggro if the DPSers learn to wait some seconds before to rush the boss. As in all mmos. Try to rush in any other mmo with your dps without waiting some seconds to let the tanks build his agro and see what the result for your character.
Yes there is a notion of teamplay. And there is also, some ways to reset agro with dps characters. The dps role isn't intended to rush and spam dps buttons only, all over the fight.
As usual cryptic thinks they know what needs to be changed in a power, but endup messing up even more
GG
Thank you for boosting FC damage for ~ 30%
If you want to fix it, make it "scales on your current energy"
To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p
As i say, i will test this later in the day.
If you are right, my words don't have any reason to be anymore.
(but the fact end or rec are totally useless in this game in comparison with others stats)
but i must admit that read that is, how to say, worrying: And it's cool to see others players have the same idea to give a good incentive to the end and rec stats. And avoid some future builds which will be too much OP.
I'm just sad that now my tank will never be able to crit. This is just another power that melee toons have to be without because its abused by every build. If they have to do this than at least keep original imbue that works for melee attacks only and put it in the Brick set.
Bug: Imbue does not scale with rank increase.
I got an Int/End/Rec cascade build which has a base 41% crit chance and 75% severity. Sounds like a good deal to me!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Not entirely true. My character Nova Remnant is Ego/Int/Rec and her FC costs 45-132 energy to fire off without an energy form. With an energy form it's 25-72 or so to fire off.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Nowhere near as effective as I-Inhale-My-Enemy's-Body-Odor-To-Survive tanks, but fun to play and can hold aggro like a pro.
Also, no Imbue.
You really don't get it do you...
Do you really not see any problem with the fact nearly every build is required to take crits in order to stay competitive?
Imbue didn't even fix this problem! It was moreso one of the bandaids on the giant gaping sore that is a flat damage builds after On Alert. I guess completely screwing over melee and flat damage builds (RIP Might, which happens to be both) wasn't enough, they have to start ripping off people's personal bandaids. For once, I knew better, and started moving all my characters over to crit, no point even resisting this all crit future we're headed to.
Hell, even Imbue is *technically* a crit. But I guess they want everyone playing the damage slot machine for some reason. Maybe PWE thought it'd be a good way to condition people into buying future grab bags or something.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
If this goes through, Tank role better get a HUGE agro buff. But I rather the devs really reconsider this.
Sure, it is indeed possible and easy to gear tanks and healers for high crit %. However, it is nice to have more than one viable gearing strategy. Currently my healer is geared for +Healing bonuses. My tank that uses Imbue is geared for +Offense. Imbue filled a niche for these types of builds that wanted to be able to have a less frequent, but more reliable spike. And I think it generally worked fine, it just had a couple of small bugs that needed fixed.
That's another other issue with this change. It potentially breaks entire builds in a way that it takes more than a Retcon to fix, i.e. regearing.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Also, isn't Healing Bonus statistically superior to crit chance? + Offense hits obscene diminishing returns though.
I hate that I'm the one regurgitating this, because for once in a blue moon I was flat out wrong, but in hindsight the Cottage Rule was a really good idea, at least to an extent. I hated this and considered it a pile of crap in its time, but I'm starting to see *why* they were so strict about it at times.
Still too strict in my opinion, but given that I've seen the alternative in action I can't say I completely blame them anymore. Also, in their defense, they started easing up on it later on in the places where it mattered, I. E. Moment of Glory, Energize, etc.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
silly lowbies
In a world where we have Int and MSA you dont need REC / END
"I got an Int/End/Rec cascade build which has a base 41% crit chance and 75% severity. Sounds like a good deal to me!"
Get INT EGO/CON , mass out CON , use Imbue and GG you have ~120% severity
Or jsut use EGO ss and have ~ 125 severity 40% crit chance with AOPM / Crit gear
Seams like a much beter deal to me.
"Not entirely true. My character Nova Remnant is Ego/Int/Rec and her FC costs 45-132 energy to fire off without an energy form. With an energy form it's 25-72 or so to fire off."
I can see how good you are, what im talking about is Damage boost from Imbue should scale on those SS.
But oh well, then CO wouldn't be the easyest game in the world
You can't just point to the stats imbue scaled off and say "Con! Pre! Tank! Healer!" Any DPSer can minor in Con or Pre for survivability stats, take Imbue, and be a highly survivable DPSer that dishes out higher spike damage than anyone else that doesn't have Imbue.
If your real issue is the fact that Healers/Tanks get nothing to really boost their own DPS, perhaps you should address that issue directly instead of screaming bloody murder about Imbue. I suggest lobbying for new powers that actually address that issue instead of masking it.
Also I agree that it's ridiculous how crit-centeric DPS has become, but that's a base systemic issue now. Imbue never alleviated that issue -- it's made it worse if anything.
RIP Imbue. You will not be missed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
You exaggerate the situation to make it larger than the minority issue it is, put way too much faith in what the developers are willing or able to spend time doing, if not do period, and end with something that is very clearly a lie given many of the responses in this thread.
Good job.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
We had a power that addressed the issue. It was called Imbue. It worked great. PVPers and Devs ruined another great power for PVE. Now our healers cant save us with a great boost in the Boss fights, instead we get a waste of an AO. Great work.
Though maybe I am bitter for wasting the thousnads of Globals building all my toons that will now be scrap.
maybe Night Warrior, switch roles for Alpha Strike to offensive, make Alpha and switch back
to defense after that
To be fair, it never was more than a supplemental for damage or healing. I can crit 2K+ HP a tic on a build that isn't really centered on healing with Empathic. I don't even use Imbue in that build. I can toss Bionic on top of that, which doesn't even crit, for what is basically an instant 5K HP if the target is eating hits from a lot of sources of damage.
What's really **** about this, is that it's a hit to the already dieing breed of On Next Hits, and to be quite frank, it wasn't breaking anything outside of heavy abuse cases. Which, knowing this game's PvP and even some of the PvE community, give it a few weeks and they'll find something else to abuse, and proceed to gripe until that's pummeled.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
...so, you'd rather have what, 500 more HP instead of a 30% chance to crit? Or do you have +Healing slotted in instead?
CO has been changed around so everyone period should have a great crit chance. Period. Always. I don't know if it's supposed to be intentional or not, but that's how it's designed.
Frankly, if you don't have a +Crit Chance item slotted into your primary slots, you're doing it wrong.
And I've also seen fantastic tanks in CO that never touched Imbue ever and ALWAYS maintain aggro. It takes a Champion (not a player, one of the actual Champions who have insane damage and are +20 levels to the player) to break aggro off of them. Why can't you tank?
In short, old Imbue was broken. It should never have been like how it was, and it got even worse when combined with things like Revitalize.
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Why not just fix the two main issues with Imbue:
1.) Cap the severity scaling
2.) Make the Imbue effect consume correctly after use
Wouldn't that be easier and more effective than breaking a bunch of builds and creating a new power that makes DPS spikes 30% bigger?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
wait wait wait.. WAIT.... you expect cryptic to... FIX STUFF? O_O"
last time they tryed to fix something the whole chat system was down for a week =O!
Yes, I'm fully aware that you were talking about the damage boost of Imbue, but if you were to pay attention to the part of your post that I quoted - you made it sound like you need absurd amounts of energy to put out absurd damage when, in fact, you don't. I mentioned my FC because you singled out FC as part of your post on damage with "To get the current damage it does on live, you need tons of energy wich you would get only with END /Rec SS =p".
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Made a lifedrain build with the new imbue. Was amusing.
Once again if you are building a tank and crying out for high damage you're doing it wrong, you've chosen defense over the rest, deal with it. Imbue was a stupid power allowing to get the best of both worlds: best defense and best spike damage at the same time. This is not how things work.
I don't know any good healer relying on imbue in order to heal a team. You don't need imbue at all to heal others.
Iniquity, the strongest targeted heal, can't crit. And even without crits, I do 4k HPS on my healer just by spamming Iniquity.
Might is the new telepathy.
Its not tanks in general asking for super damage, its the poor MIGHT tanks. Lets remember that we have animations are are hilariously long and damage that would tickle a kitten (maybe a bit of a stretch but you get it).
Maybe you didn't realize that a CON based tank isn't supposed to hit like a train. You want to hit hard? Make a build more focused on offense. "I don't understand why my damage output isn't very high when I put all my points in CON for more HPs". Seriously?
This would be a viable and understandable statement IF the other tank builds weren't superior. Yes, Imbue was not the answer for the long run and the real issue of might. However, now it is even weaker compared to other options. Theme is the only real reason to keep them around now.
I've been tuning Brou for years, and the thing I notice in build adjustments the most is that if you throw your chips into con all the way it's asking for problems. I personally had to back off of full defense as a former con primary to get the most out of the character. Without taking any measure of crowd control into your gameplay or damage stat/spec options, you won't get far at all.
Now I wouldn't claim to know your exact build, but how deeply have you invested in defense that the loss of that crit ruins everything? I hear mention of con primary. Is the dex for dodge talent being skipped? That lets you make a major investment that helps you in two ways.
Thats the thing Brou, I havent thrown my chips into one basket. I try to keep Novocain pretty well rounded. As we all know however having a STR primary is never going to give as much bang for your buck as a crit monkey or epidemic tank. Imbue with UR was one one big attack that you could do once in a while to let people know you were there. I'm not asking for a tank mage, I'm wanting might to not be the slow sluggish low damage option.
That is why FF dps or healers do well to take an agro whipe (if only cryptic would fix smoke bomb).
Stop using PVP as a scape goat.
1. The pvp community has NO influence over what goes on in CO.
2. If pvp is so influential, why cant we get basic stuff like rewards or questionite?
3. The PVP community has been only a few dozen since On alert.
4. The PVP forums are the least active part of the CO forums.
5. The devs have openly stated that they see PVP as insignificant.
Stop using PVP to rationalize your greed to have big spikes on any build in any role.
Saying the PVP community has the power to get something nerfed is like saying the RP community has the power to get something nerfed.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
The fix should not be on the DPSers end. The Tank should be able to maintain that aggro, and to be honest this is the only game I have personally played where a tank can so easily have his aggro yanked. DPSers keep on doing what you do, the devs need to fix our inability to keep things from walking right past us..(shockwave for one).
Also, I seriously haven't had any issue taking and holding aggro on my tank. It's as easy as lunge, Eruption, Cleavespam and Eruption again, repeat repeat repeat, maybe use BCR and Conviction every so often to keep myself going, Masterful Dodge if things get hairy, R3 Evasive Maneuvers for a dodge boost of epic proportions, etc. etc.
We all know its not a fine art to tank. I do this same exact dance with different powers. Problem is when a healer or hard hitting DPSer comes strolling in and takes it from you. Skill at that point isn't whats failing you. Honestly, How many times has anyone used shockwave full maintain and had a full mob stroll by embarrassing you. Don't even get me started on the serious lack of KB protection a tank( or anyone for that matter) has against KBers.
As elementary as it may seem, we need a visual of how much threat we have. A meter perhaps right on our UI. So we can see visually how much threat our toon is generating. On a side note..What the hell is it with all the spam on the forums lately??!! Anyone notice these posts.
Yay .. finally somebody said it : WE NEED DAMAGE-METERS !!!!
And next we need GEAR-SCORE
dammit ive fallen into a WoW reference
This... The few times I play a tank for like 5 hours before getting dreadfully bored of never dying, it's comically easy to hold threat by using basically any attack+Crippling Challenge, especially if you take the protector spec that increases your threat in hybrid stance...
Also I have evasive maneuvers+adv on all of my DPS toons. It (or palliate) is a -must- if you don't want to end up being the dpstank with <5k hp.
Imbue is my new favorite AO, btw.
^Once it has this stuff it'll be golden.^
Snark never dies.
I note that unless I super stat in INT my cooldowns are still ridiculous for the telepathy powers. Mental Storm in particular is dreadful.
As much as I like the telepathy powers some more powers could be added and some need to be tweaked.
Also old bug or healing and rezzing enemies is back, causing stacking to benefit your foes upon detonation. >_>;
Now about Force...
I've been hearing stuff about END/REC and Force Cascade and something about damage? Can someone please clarify what is going on with this? Does it give me a reason to be excited with regards to my PFF Impulse with 312 END?
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Hmm no...I'd advocate END to give an innate bonus to ALL shielding powers and defense. It would not only fit it's name but give it a purpose.
Perhaps in a similar fashion to PRE's innate healing bonus.
Rec, perhaps would increase rate of out of combat HP regen and perhaps give a boost to in combat HP regen.
Also another thing....until IDF is brought up to standard please give the option to choose between Concentration and IDF for Impulse AT and remove the unnecessary Force Snap and put in Conviction so we can survive please.
I know there are bigger things to worry about such as Imbue's current state and the change (which will kill of alot of builds I have been told), but the Impulse change especially and END change will help alot.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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