On another note, Has anyone considered making more offensive abilities scale on recovery? Perhaps Nimble Mind on Ego Surge... Or anything, something that would benefit the use of recovery, suggestions anyone?
Hmm no...I'd advocate END to give an innate bonus to ALL shielding powers and defense. It would not only fit it's name but give it a purpose.
Also another thing....until IDF is brought up to standard please give the option to choose between Concentration and IDF for Impulse AT and remove the unnecessary Force Snap and put in Conviction so we can survive please.
1) I'm not against this idea. That or one other thing. End and rec needs other advantage to have the same interest than dex,ego/str,con,pre and int.
But i don't see where a bonus to shielding and defense fit the name "endurance".
This fits to constitution. Constitution is based on resistance of your body.
Endurance is the fact you can move, fight, do anything without being exhausted, or can do it much longer than others. I can have endurance without being resistant to blows (damage).
2) The problem is your point of view is based on archetypes.
This is easy to balance archetypes, not so easy with freeform. If you do a modification to balance archetypes which create a lot of problems with freeform, it's not a good solution.
The major feature of this game is freeform. Archetypes are for the people who begins with the game and apprehend/dread the total system of the character creation, or people who don't want to spend a lot of money in this game.
Definitely, archetypes shouldn't be the reason to be of powers 's updates, and general balancing. At the opposite, if the freeform is balanced, they just have to change one power or two in the list of archetypes powers and it's ok without kill all the game balance.
I hope i'm clear, these notions and what i try to say are beyond my english abilities. Sorry.
rec granting haste would be nice, but it sounds like more reason to have AoPM, hitting all the DRs, unless, Rec granting stuff on powers (like how EUs scale on specific stats) Or having haste as a rec spec.
I'd appreciate expanded cutscenes pointing out key areas. The Vent tripped me up the first time.
Also, engine guard duty makes sense, but is a pain in later phases. Really, all you need is one person with a heal on one engine during phase 2, and some sweepers up top. On phase 3, you replace the sweepers with a tank. ...That's pretty much it.
Also, we couldn't find the loot icon. At least I couldn't.
It's interesting, though on our run I only think one person used the vehicles. Everyone else used Fly or an equivalent. One person used -swinging-, which was just awesome. Glad vehicles aren't forced though. Makes things easier on everyone.
1) I'm not against this idea. That or one other thing. End and rec needs other advantage to have the same interest than dex,ego/str,con,pre and int.
But i don't see where a bonus to shielding and defense fit the name "endurance".
Perhaps he is thinking of the root word for endurance..."endure." For example, to endure pain.
Im dont think that Endurance in CO meets that definition, but I can see how someone might look at the word and consider it appropriate.
Nu uh, I want credit for this one! I kept saying it should go the way of aggressor and I never get blamed for anything!
redundant post is redundant, please see my next post.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
1. The pvp community has NO influence over what goes on in CO.
2. If pvp is so influential, why cant we get basic stuff like rewards or questionite?
3. The PVP community has been only a few dozen since On alert.
4. The PVP forums are the least active part of the CO forums.
5. The devs have openly stated that they see PVP as insignificant.
Stop using PVP to rationalize your greed to have big spikes on any build in any role. Saying the PVP community has the power to get something nerfed is like saying the RP community has the power to get something nerfed.
Sorry I call this incorrect.
PvP has nerfed a lot of things, waaaaay out of proportion to their slice of the actual population.
This nerf is definitely on them, the PvP'rs cried about this non-stop for months. It was what they really got to once they pushed through the AoPM nerf.
Was it justified?
Probably. *
Sad thing is, this will continue until there is no more PvP to worry about, with the current sulking and not playing, that'll be soon looks like.
-side note-
The RP community hasn't ever called for a power nerf that I know of, unless you count removing duels and object spam tossing/destroying in Caprice. I wouldn't call that nerfing, I'd call that grief prevention.
*it's also inevitable, since we have meaningful choices, myriad combinations and aren't herded into generic classes/powers. PvP will never be fixed until that happens.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
PvP has nerfed a lot of things, waaaaay out of proportion to their slice of the actual population.
This nerf is definitely on them, the PvP'rs cried about this non-stop for months. It was what they really got to once they pushed through the AoPM nerf.
Was it justified?
Probably. *
Sad thing is, this will continue until there is no more PvP to worry about, with the current sulking and not playing, that'll be soon looks like.
-side note-
The RP community hasn't ever called for a power nerf that I know of, unless you count removing duels and object spam tossing/destroying in Caprice. I wouldn't call that nerfing, I'd call that grief prevention.
*it's also inevitable, since we have meaningful choices, myriad combinations and aren't herded into generic classes/powers. PvP will never be fixed until that happens.
Pretending the power wasn't out of whack just because PvPers noticed it the most I think is being a tad silly. Having specific powers and heals never even consume the effect, like it was suppose to be, is a very serious bug in the power.
This nerf is definitely on them, the PvP'rs cried about this non-stop for months.[/COLOR]
You are right, that PvPers complained about this for months. And the devs ignored the complaints the entire time. The devs commented that PvPers were insignificant during this time.
So, we see the devs have demonstrated an unwillingness to act on PvP complaints about the power...and that demonstrates that it was the PvPers fault how ?
Hmm, a link between Armadillos and Humans in the American southwest was discovered to be the source of cases of leprosy in the region during the same time frame that Imbue was being worked on. That must be why Imbue was nerfed.
You are right, that PvPers complained about this for months. And the devs ignored the complaints the entire time. The devs commented that PvPers were insignificant during this time.
So, we see the devs have demonstrated an unwillingness to act on PvP complaints about the power...and that demonstrates that it was the PvPers fault how ?
Hmm, a link between Armadillos and Humans in the American southwest was discovered to be the source of cases of leprosy in the region during the same time frame that Imbue was being worked on. That must be why Imbue was nerfed.
This is true, it wasn't until certain PvE players complained that action was taken, by the time almost everyone, PvP and PvE was exploiting it.
I'd say my lil behemoth puts out pathetic damage, being that I usually run a dps role. Yet its not her damage that holds threat so much as the extra threat gen modifiers from CS/CC. She holds threat against very well.
My Invincible's output is more bearable, but definitely not hitting the numbers I'm used to - CS is what allows him to hold threat.
On the flip side, its very common for my cursed or soldier to get stuck running double duty as a dps tank. They hold threat (often unwillingly) through pure damage alone.
If we define 25% as solid crit chance, then all you need is an r5 gamblers in heroic gloves of precision. More than that requires a crit secondary or dex, and above 30.5% you're going to dex.
You are right, that PvPers complained about this for months. And the devs ignored the complaints the entire time. The devs commented that PvPers were insignificant during this time.
So, we see the devs have demonstrated an unwillingness to act on PvP complaints about the power...and that demonstrates that it was the PvPers fault how ?
That's just the pattern playing out - exploits can begin and intensify in PvP and propagate the intensity down to other circles. Actually, probably the act of complaining about it clues in more and more, until more and more are complaining outside of the initial circle and the crescendo is finally heard in some combination of need and perhaps a bit of 'luck' as it were. We all know there is a smorgasbord of bugs and issues that aren't handled presumably due to work load on the devs. Collectively we all create a loose order of priorities, often in a pattern of cumulative fallout.
Probably adding further to Imbue's case of getting the axe is the secondary bugs with other powers, and a desire for simplicity instead of clunking through fixes. I know multiple peeps that've been around from the beginning point out it's been broken and a problem from get go. Can't endear the power to the devs any. Then there's the Sigils/DoTs + Imbue dealio hanging over their heads...
It really doesn't matter what a player is, PvP, PvE, RPer, or all of the above. Everyone who campaigns for a change should simply own up to their portion of the 'blame' - I mean, those who campaigned for it wanted it anyway, right? Why even bother deflecting blame?
Desire and motive are the vanguard of any change. It's not like the devs are going to just trip over it. Motion, expressed opinion, these things create a momentum and contribute to it happening.
No one exists in a vacuum, the idea that PvPers don't affect change is just off, to me. It doesn't matter if it's direct or not, they're playing a role. Often, seemingly spearheading it.
Personally, though, I don't think PvPers need an advocate defending them here. Even in silence or in isolated circles, many of them are simply dancing upon Imbue's grave, cheering, happy, and blame be damned!
Personally, though, I don't think PvPers need an advocate defending them here. Even in silence or in isolated circles, many of them are simply dancing upon Imbue's grave, cheering, happy, and blame be damned!
I'm dancing upon it's beautiful fiery wings as it's reborn like the mighty phoenix into the greatest critical active offense in the game.
1) I'm not against this idea. That or one other thing. End and rec needs other advantage to have the same interest than dex,ego/str,con,pre and int.
But i don't see where a bonus to shielding and defense fit the name "endurance".
This fits to constitution. Constitution is based on resistance of your body. Endurance is the fact you can move, fight, do anything without being exhausted, or can do it much longer than others. I can have endurance without being resistant to blows (damage).
Your english is fine
1) When I think about the word Endurance, it means powering through things against the odds and taking a beating or two and continuing onwards and holding to your defense. To me, thats what shields are for to provide some defense. You say that consitiution is based on the resistance of your body. Fine, I agree with that but I am talking about shielding, which usually doesnt fall under consistution, at all. Shields and force fields etc are more projectionist powers and typically require (in comics) a fair amount of concentration and endurance to maintain or to make them powerful. That is my reasoning. Also your definition of Endurance sort of proves what I am saying (highlighted bit), as in you can keep going against the odds and maintain and do things longer than anyone else.
2) The problem is your point of view is based on archetypes.
This is easy to balance archetypes, not so easy with freeform. If you do a modification to balance archetypes which create a lot of problems with freeform, it's not a good solution.
The major feature of this game is freeform. Archetypes are for the people who begins with the game and apprehend/dread the total system of the character creation, or people who don't want to spend a lot of money in this game.
Definitely, archetypes shouldn't be the reason to be of powers 's updates, and general balancing. At the opposite, if the freeform is balanced, they just have to change one power or two in the list of archetypes powers and it's ok without kill all the game balance.
I hope i'm clear, these notions and what i try to say are beyond my english abilities. Sorry.
2) I wouldnt say that having an AT point of view was really a problem. I have played FF before and made some successful Mentalist/healer builds as thats what I am really into. I have spent a lot of money on this game on my silver account and yes I have gone gold a couple of times, but I found with the new system, a bit overwhelming with power choices etc. I prefer AT's due to their simplicity, although yes most if not all are flawed in some way (some more than others ofc). My suggestion was to give END some form of help if you will, the fact that my Impulse AT has a poor list of powers was also a motivation, for my suggestion. I know that some FF builds use Endurance but I think the majority do not, even if they did, I don't think my suggestion to enhance END would be shunned away at all. It wouldnt take away anything from PRE as PRE is primarily for healing/shielding. I think that is the way PRE should stay, however, END could provide an alternate route for those who want to have some form of shielding, but are running/ carrying energy hunrgy powers or something. My suggestion for the Impulse AT has been /signed before by a number of players, and really when you look at that AT, it makes sense, giving a ranged FF build a knockto on a DPS build really isnt going to help the situation especially if you are squishy/have limited heals. The Impulse AT, is an extremely KB centric build and having a knockto adds an extra layer of KB resist which you dont want when in a battle situation. Why it cant have a decent heal to keep itself alive once either KM is absorbed by Force Cascade or Personal Force Field (yes my Impulse runs with a 7.8k PFF) is totally down and FS isnt doing much against an onslaught, I dont see why replacing a reduntant power like Force Snap with a useful power like Conviction in this AT wouldnt be a good idea. Giving a bonus to Shield strength in END is an easy yes, IMO.
Oh yes it did. Have you actually sat down and done the math for the DPS increase the imbue gives an average build? It's really easy to do, because Imbue has no activation time, and powers like Defile are both a good measure and self fueling, so there's no accounting for outside factors.
Even leaving it benefiting from base severity, you'll find it's still nothing to even write home about. PvE is all about DPS, PvP is where burst matters worth a damn. This is pretty much universal, and it becomes readily apparently by the number of Epidemic Spammers VS Imbue nukers you'll see in alerts.
This was sincerely the fault of PvP it got changed like this, because the only place it was a problem was minority heavy abuse cases. You can deny it all you want, it wont change this.
Hey look, more being wrong!
Tankers had a built in mechanic known as Gauntlet, which added greatly increased threat generation to their AoEs and auras, and caused the threat of their single target attacks, which also gained increased threat generation, to chain to up to four other targets. Or maybe it was three, I forget.
In any case, there were some tanker types that didn't even pick up taunt, because it was redundant. Ice Tankers were one of such, and certain types of Firey Armor Tankers, because the inherent threat generation of their AoEs and auras was so high that just being near enemies made it damn near impossible for anything to pull agro off them.
Brutes also reportedly had a weaker version of Gauntlet, but personally I think they just had weak amounts of taunt power built into their attacks.
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
So, we see the devs have demonstrated an unwillingness to act on PvP complaints about the power...and that demonstrates that it was the PvPers fault how ?
Consider it took Jaybezz and a few others about the same amount of time to get them to even look at Telepathy.
Then realize that all this proves is that if you ***** and whine about something long enough, whether it's justified or not, you'll get them to do something. ...And said something may be the worst solution to a problem possible.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
1) When I think about the word Endurance, it means powering through things against the odds and taking a beating or two and continuing onwards and holding to your defense. To me, thats what shields are for to provide some defense. You say that consitiution is based on the resistance of your body. Fine, I agree with that but I am talking about shielding, which usually doesnt fall under consistution, at all. Shields and force fields etc are more projectionist powers and typically require (in comics) a fair amount of concentration and endurance to maintain or to make them powerful. That is my reasoning. Also your definition of Endurance sort of proves what I am saying (highlighted bit), as in you can keep going against the odds and maintain and do things longer than anyone else.
Oh! I see now, what is your point. Why not.
But i think at an another solution.
- For REC, give it an haste bonus to charging powers (*or for end) and a minor bonus to life regeneration.
- For END, give it the bonus of cooldown reduction that is actually on the INT stat. (*or for rec)
- For INT, give it a new bonus of the same family of mental abilities (wisdom, concentration, etc). Why not this bonus to shielding you speak of + the actual reduction in power cost ?
* These bonuses with these stats will be more logic, but an inversion will be more balanced for the game.
Dex for crits, ego/str for more damage, rec for a bonus to spike damage, end for more damage with skills used more often and more activables, Con for more life and i would love more chance to be immune to kb and not a reduction of the kb as actually, Int for survival with shield powers and energy bonus, and pre more survival with buffs, heals and shields.
Every Stat will get a bonus a character wishes.
Edit: And with this, tanks who wants doing damage without the crits can do it with CON, STR, REC (or END). And supports can be better with Pre + (end)
After, perhaps my suggestions aren't good regards to the rules of the CO's pen and paper game... I don't know.
Int doesn't need any further boosts - it's extremely powerful and taken by a LOT of the freeform population. Rec and End are constantly looked at as poor choices (especially Rec, as it's just terrible) and need to do something else.
Int doesn't need any further boosts - it's extremely powerful and taken by a LOT of the freeform population. Rec and End are constantly looked at as poor choices (especially Rec, as it's just terrible) and need to do something else.
This is the problem, INT it's a lot more useful than others stats. It's why i speak to move the cooldown reduction to an another stat (Rec or end, but End would be a better choice imho) and give an another bonus to Int, for balancing the stats.
Not to give another bonus on top of what's INT is doing actually.
This is the problem, INT it's a lot more useful than others stats.
This isn't the case anymore. The way the spec trees are designed did a lot to bring STR CON DEX INT PRE and EGO closer together. REC and END also got bumped up quite a bit but their entire problem is what it always was: That in and of themselves, they give lousy bonuses.
If you're taking REC or END as a Superstat, it's almost always either because of concept, or as a primary for what their trees do. I. E. Kickback based PA builds. What needs to be done, is REC and END need to gain a valuable secondary bonus, and NOT at the expense of other stats.
No more of this rob Peter to pay Paul crap.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This isn't the case anymore. The way the spec trees are designed did a lot to bring STR CON DEX INT PRE and EGO closer together. REC and END also got bumped up quite a bit but their entire problem is what it always was: That in and of themselves, they give lousy bonuses.
If you're taking REC or END as a Superstat, it's almost always either because of concept, or as a primary for what their trees do. I. E. Kickback based PA builds. What needs to be done, is REC and END need to gain a valuable secondary bonus, and NOT at the expense of other stats.
No more of this rob Peter to pay Paul crap.
Sorry but Int is a lot more usefull and powerfull than End and rec.
But +1 for the other point.
With the actual spec trees of all others stats who gives +equilibrium + or less power cost after a crit, or with your ego points, or etc... + the gear who gives reduction to cost powers + 1 pt avantage who gives + chance to have X energy, the End and rec stats are useless.
None of the characters needs them. They needs a secondary bonus. i'm totally agree with Somebob.
Tankers had a built in mechanic known as Gauntlet, which added greatly increased threat generation to their AoEs and auras, and caused the threat of their single target attacks, which also gained increased threat generation, to chain to up to four other targets. Or maybe it was three, I forget.
In any case, there were some tanker types that didn't even pick up taunt, because it was redundant. Ice Tankers were one of such, and certain types of Firey Armor Tankers, because the inherent threat generation of their AoEs and auras was so high that just being near enemies made it damn near impossible for anything to pull agro off them.
Brutes also reportedly had a weaker version of Gauntlet, but personally I think they just had weak amounts of taunt power built into their attacks.
Hey look, Xao is completely wrong, who knew. Not how the mechanic worked. Gauntlet was an innate taunt mechanic, it wasn't a threat builder. There was no real threat in CoH. Tankers were given gauntlet because it was an auto taunt in all their attacks, because CoH didn't have a threat tree like current gen MMOs. Gauntlet wasn't a threat builder just a constant stream of taunting, why things like auras made tanks great, because of gauntlet. And why if oyu had multiple tanks they could sit there and trade aggro instantly with each other.
You guys are confused.
These imbalances were brought forward by the PVP community.....(correlation) But i these changes were not made for the sake of the pvp community.
These changes were made for the sake of power balance......(causation)
There a big difference between the two. Correlation does not imply causation kids....:cool: Its a common mistake and your making it.
Here's some more facts for you.
1. In the past Ame has personalty stated that he hates imbue because it makes it hard to balance the game.
2. GC has personally stated that he views PVP as insignificant. 1+2=the devs didn't like how imbue worked and don't care about pvp.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Also, championshewolf and kaizerin are correct about tanking as it was in COX and as it is in CO.
EDIT:
To be more clear, in COX Tank agro was almost absolute and and one dimensional.
If you racall, we already had an extensive talk about Tanking when "An Alert" was on PTS and Role buffs were changing.
The devs have already explicitly stated that they don't want Tank agro to be absolute like it is in COX. They feel (and i agree) that healing and DPS agro makes the system more dynamic.
Absolute agro from COX led to things like dumpster diving and very rigid tank and spank.
The way tanking works is a design decision. Not a bug. Not a flaw. And not dependent on imbue to function.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all, only on the CO forums can you see this level of absurdity! Only a madman can understand the deep and twisted methods of the minds here, able to hold beliefs that have been proven wrong as clear as day, even within proximity of such proof!
It's as if we exist here in a bizzaro world, where wrong is right and right is wrong, or perhaps where being wrong is the thing all the popular and famous people do! Don't try to comprehend it, don't try to even explain it, just simply stare in shock and awe at the absurdity!
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all, only on the CO forums can you see this level of absurdity! Only a madman can understand the deep and twisted methods of the minds here, able to hold beliefs that have been proven wrong as clear as day, even within proximity of such proof!
It's as if we exist here in a bizzaro world, where wrong is right and right is wrong, or perhaps where being wrong is the thing all the popular and famous people do! Don't try to comprehend it, don't try to even explain it, just simply stare in shock and awe at the absurdity!
If the facts were really on your side, they would speak for them selves and you wouldn't have to post emotional nonsense like this in a vain attempt to discredit the people who are exposing the fallacy of your argument.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
HAHAHAHA, KAISERIN ACTUALLY LINKED THE EXACT THING PROVING THEM WRONG. Oh! Oh! But only after trying to twist mathmatical formulas out of meaning by posting something castle said, which in itself was a horrible misrepresentation of how the system worked.
Not sure if completely twisted in the head, or trying to save face.
You know what, this makes my head hurt. I can't comprehend where this kind of crap comes from, but here it is. I guess this is what I get for even bothering to reply to the same person who INSISTED you could ground an osprey even after EVERYONE swarmed them proving otherwise.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
CoX had a threat system, and to be honest it was better than most I've seen.
Oh look, Xao being completely wrong because he doesn't understand how mechanics work. Per normal. Gauntlet was a taunt mechanic. Sorry, but a tanker even with a higher threat mod was not out threating a scrapper or blaster. Sorry, but once again Xao, like you commonly are, you are wrong. What are you going to try and do, hold my one mistake over my head, considering your past levels of incompetence, since a tanker with just aura on with gauntlet would be a constant stream of taunting, and could stand there and hold aggro. This is especially true on auras that didn't do damage so you can't cite damage as a reason.
Really Xao, actually go learn mechanics before you try talking about them. Not to mention that threat chart is missing a lot more facts on it, since damage was the only threat measured, not to mention a tanker with an aura going would not be capable of holding aggro against blasters or scrappers by just standing there, oh and the threat level multiplier represented who was first in the chain of when a team was first aggro'd or a loose mob that hasn't been damaged. Really Xao, stop trying.
In fact without that taunt effect in gauntlet, tankers would never hold aggro without taking taunt, since whoever the top damage dealer was at the moment would take aggro. And guess what, that would never be the tanker.
This is completely irrelevant. The claim was that tanker taunts beat everything, and there was no agro system, or threat mechanic, and that was it. I not only proved that there was, but taunts were factored into it, regardless of Castle's long standing ability to twist everything out of proportion.
Keep it up, it's cute. I guess you are trying to save face.
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This is completely irrelevant. The claim was that tanker taunts beat everything, and there was no agro system, or threat mechanic, and that was it. I not only proved that there was, but taunts were factored into it, regardless of Castle's long standing ability to twist everything out of proportion.
Keep it up, it's cute. I guess you are trying to save face.
Never claimed that. Keep reaching. And tanker taunts do beat everything. Hence why gauntlet was so powerful.
If this were a pvp thing, near-permanent ascension impunity from non-removable
flight would have been touched.
Oh, trust me, Ascension is going to be the next to be completely and totally ripped apart and reassembled into something only vaguely resembling what it originally was.
You people keep trying to make this look like it's not a PvP thing because they don't make many PvP changes, but what you're not getting is that when they do make a change on behalf of PvP, it isn't because of PvP, it's because as time goes on the people in PvP cry LOUDER AND LOUDER until they make a kneejerk reaction and completely butcher a power, advantage, or whatever.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This is completely irrelevant. The claim was that tanker taunts beat everything, and there was no agro system, or threat mechanic, and that was it. I not only proved that there was, but taunts were factored into it, regardless of Castle's long standing ability to twist everything out of proportion.
Keep it up, it's cute. I guess you are trying to save face.
Your arguing semantics now.
Can you please for clarity and the integrity of this thread, make a simple statement that crystallizes whatever it is that your mad about? And please do so without involving COX.
Honestly, with all your "HAHAHAHA," and "Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all," and "COX Tanking" I cant honestly say what your overarching point is or how it relates to imbue, telepathy or the new alert.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Can you please for clarity and the integrity of this thread, make a simple statement that crystallizes whatever it is that your mad about? And please do so without involving COX.
Honestly, with all your "HAHAHAHA," and "Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all," and "COX Tanking" I cant honestly say what your overarching point is or how it relates to imbue, telepathy or the new alert.
No, THEY were arguing semantics. They said there was no threat, taunt was it. Well, if you bothered to read that page I linked, you'd realize that Taunts multiplied off of base threat values. They "overrode" threat in the same sense that you can "override" threat here in CO by switching roles.
The overarching point here is the people who keep saying **** in this thread to defend the butchering of imbue either don't know what they're talking about, or will say anything to defend the destruction of this power. I'm fighting fire with fire half the time, because anything else either gets met with being ignored or reposting something that was shot down. Or in this case, posting what I posted, and trying to reframe it.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
We're trying to compare the tanking of two very different games here. In our mobile, cooldown-less game, it makes sense that the Soldier mowing down enemies with her Assault Rifle is out-aggroing a specced-for-pre-On-Alert old fashioned Might tank who is hitting like a kitten because he can't keep up with the times.
I think CC and CS should become much stronger... in Tank role, with a spec to make it stronger in Hybrid (hi bulwark, how are you). CC should only break blocks in either DPS or Support role, and CS should apply the damage debuff in either DPS role or Support role.
IT'S ALSO A PVP THING, because I'd love to be able to break blocks with my Soldier in PvP and not attract the attention of the boss that can kill me in PvE. lolpvpchangesarekillingpvesendhelp
It's fun to see overzealous DPSers get themselves killed because it is entirely their own fault.
As a tank, I can hold aggro almost indefinitely unless someone throws a crippling challenge in there. As a DPS, I can drop aggro with a wide variety of powers, or doing something as simple as backing off and blocking!
Also, forgive us for wanting acceptable, fun PvP. Nothing says fun like 'I am crit-healing with my Convictions for half my health every three seconds and now I'm going to kill you with an Imbued Unleashed Rage/Force Cascade. Also if you're melee I'm going to just fly away and let loose the Cascades', amirite?
EDIT:
Unnerf Gas Arrow, Sigils and Punji Sticks, please. Also give Gas Arrow a dodge or heal debuff. Thanks in advance.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Damn, Xao's signature is inflammatory.
The overarching point here is the people who keep saying **** in this thread to defend the butchering of imbue either don't know what they're talking about, or will say anything to defend the destruction of this power.
IMHO I think the devs (and my self) would be more convinced by:
"the imbue change is bad for power balance or builds or skews the difficulty of the game because [insert tangible objective facts]"
more so than:
"every one that disagrees with me doesn't know what they're talking about [censored]"
But oh well, feel free to express your self in whatever way you can.
/e re-enters lurk mode.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Is there any ****ing chance of some people actually logging on to the PTS so that I can try out the new Until Carrier alert?
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
We're trying to compare the tanking of two very different games here. In our mobile, cooldown-less game, it makes sense that the Soldier mowing down enemies with her Assault Rifle is out-aggroing a specced-for-pre-On-Alert old fashioned Might tank who is hitting like a kitten because he can't keep up with the times.
I think CC and CS should become much stronger... in Tank role, with a spec to make it stronger in Hybrid (hi bulwark, how are you). CC should only break blocks in either DPS or Support role, and CS should apply the damage debuff in either DPS role or Support role.
IT'S ALSO A PVP THING, because I'd love to be able to break blocks with my Soldier in PvP and not attract the attention of the boss that can kill me in PvE. lolpvpchangesarekillingpvesendhelp
It's fun to see overzealous DPSers get themselves killed because it is entirely their own fault.
As a tank, I can hold aggro almost indefinitely unless someone throws a crippling challenge in there. As a DPS, I can drop aggro with a wide variety of powers, or doing something as simple as backing off and blocking!
Also, forgive us for wanting acceptable, fun PvP. Nothing says fun like 'I am crit-healing with my Convictions for half my health every three seconds and now I'm going to kill you with an Imbued Unleashed Rage/Force Cascade. Also if you're melee I'm going to just fly away and let loose the Cascades', amirite?
EDIT:
Unnerf Gas Arrow, Sigils and Punji Sticks, please. Also give Gas Arrow a dodge or heal debuff. Thanks in advance.
Just couldn't help catching the start of this since I know it was me who stated hitting like a kitten. What SHOULD a might tank spec in these days,in DEX primary??
Just couldn't help catching the start of this since I know it was me who stated hitting like a kitten. What SHOULD a might tank spec in these days,in DEX primary??
Do whatever you want statwise (Str, Con, whatever) and then grab a Gambler's Lucky Gem (preferably a rank V, rank IV will do though) and slot it in your Primary Offense.
Suddenly, life is good... or at least better than it once was! Also, take your critical specs in the Str tree. If you have the obnoxiously high amount of Q, spend 150k Q on a Vigilante's Critical Belt and just wrap that around your waist.
I am being completely and totally serious. Dex? Not necessary.
Is there any ****ing chance of some people actually logging on to the PTS so that I can try out the new Until Carrier alert?
I agree, but something like this needs to be coordinated. Coordinating something like this would be easier with a dev sanctioning it.
This is also why i advocate some kind of PTS reward system like:
"run the new alert 5 times on PTS and post feedback and get a free [mod or piece of blue gear or marginal quantity of questionite] on your live account"
Or at least something to motivate people to organize them selves.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Alright, in case it still isn't clear, I'm going to repeat what I've said about half a dozen times over the course of this thread:
I'm sick of watching the devs butcher things because of whining. This isn't an adjustment, this is a chop shop rework, an adjustment was what they did with Forms. This is bad, this is something you don't do, because it's anti-design.
Yes, a huge overhaul of a bunch of existing mechanics is more of an adjustment, when compared to completely altering the functionality of an existing power into something that vaguely resembles what it originally was. What they did to old Eyebeams is less of a butchering than this.
I don't even understand how the PvPers can't comprehend this, because while melee got dumped on everywhere, PvP is where it got screwed over the hardest.
I also cant comprehend how we're back to doing this so frequently. I thought we were finally past this.
What I want, is INTELLIGENT observation of the Cottage Rule, in moderation, with a side of not nerfing things by more than half their yield in a single swoop. This should be common sense, but it's not. If Imbue is an on next hit damage boost, it should remain an on next hit damage boost. If its yield is decreased, it shouldn't be by a HUGE GIGANTIC NERFHAMMER.
Yes, this actually applies to buffing things too. It also has exceptions to it, and while I could go listing them it would take me pages to list every exception ever learned by a game developer I've seen. There's also a ton of grey area, too. The basic point is this: In most cases, changing a power's core functionality and/or original purpose to something different, is BAD. You can even BUFF the power in the process, it's still BAD. You always run the risk of pissing off a bunch of people when something they have becomes something different, be it because it broke a build, doesn't fit concept any more, or in general just isn't as fun.
This is a something that I thought this game got over ages ago, but here we are with it again. You don't solve a problem by deleting it, or changing it completely, ever.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Or at least something to motivate people to organize them selves.
Dev. Action. Figures.
Also, new Imbue feels more or less like a desperation super-mode. Should move it to Munitions, call it Last Stand, and figure out something else for Imbue.
Comments
Aggressor, rec, haste.
Or rec = haste rating.
Pwetty pweeeeezzz
1) I'm not against this idea. That or one other thing. End and rec needs other advantage to have the same interest than dex,ego/str,con,pre and int.
But i don't see where a bonus to shielding and defense fit the name "endurance".
This fits to constitution. Constitution is based on resistance of your body.
Endurance is the fact you can move, fight, do anything without being exhausted, or can do it much longer than others. I can have endurance without being resistant to blows (damage).
2) The problem is your point of view is based on archetypes.
This is easy to balance archetypes, not so easy with freeform. If you do a modification to balance archetypes which create a lot of problems with freeform, it's not a good solution.
The major feature of this game is freeform. Archetypes are for the people who begins with the game and apprehend/dread the total system of the character creation, or people who don't want to spend a lot of money in this game.
Definitely, archetypes shouldn't be the reason to be of powers 's updates, and general balancing. At the opposite, if the freeform is balanced, they just have to change one power or two in the list of archetypes powers and it's ok without kill all the game balance.
I hope i'm clear, these notions and what i try to say are beyond my english abilities. Sorry.
rec granting haste would be nice, but it sounds like more reason to have AoPM, hitting all the DRs, unless, Rec granting stuff on powers (like how EUs scale on specific stats) Or having haste as a rec spec.
Well, whatever, but I don't like this as is, it needs a boost of some kind. Better base, more % with ranks, or fringe benefits.
So I can agree on that principle - if this is actually going to be a AO, make it an AO.
I'd appreciate expanded cutscenes pointing out key areas. The Vent tripped me up the first time.
Also, engine guard duty makes sense, but is a pain in later phases. Really, all you need is one person with a heal on one engine during phase 2, and some sweepers up top. On phase 3, you replace the sweepers with a tank. ...That's pretty much it.
Also, we couldn't find the loot icon. At least I couldn't.
It's interesting, though on our run I only think one person used the vehicles. Everyone else used Fly or an equivalent. One person used -swinging-, which was just awesome. Glad vehicles aren't forced though. Makes things easier on everyone.
Perhaps he is thinking of the root word for endurance..."endure." For example, to endure pain.
Im dont think that Endurance in CO meets that definition, but I can see how someone might look at the word and consider it appropriate.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
redundant post is redundant, please see my next post.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Sorry I call this incorrect.
PvP has nerfed a lot of things, waaaaay out of proportion to their slice of the actual population.
This nerf is definitely on them, the PvP'rs cried about this non-stop for months. It was what they really got to once they pushed through the AoPM nerf.
Was it justified?
Probably. *
Sad thing is, this will continue until there is no more PvP to worry about, with the current sulking and not playing, that'll be soon looks like.
-side note-
The RP community hasn't ever called for a power nerf that I know of, unless you count removing duels and object spam tossing/destroying in Caprice. I wouldn't call that nerfing, I'd call that grief prevention.
*it's also inevitable, since we have meaningful choices, myriad combinations and aren't herded into generic classes/powers. PvP will never be fixed until that happens.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Pretending the power wasn't out of whack just because PvPers noticed it the most I think is being a tad silly. Having specific powers and heals never even consume the effect, like it was suppose to be, is a very serious bug in the power.
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You are right, that PvPers complained about this for months. And the devs ignored the complaints the entire time. The devs commented that PvPers were insignificant during this time.
So, we see the devs have demonstrated an unwillingness to act on PvP complaints about the power...and that demonstrates that it was the PvPers fault how ?
Hmm, a link between Armadillos and Humans in the American southwest was discovered to be the source of cases of leprosy in the region during the same time frame that Imbue was being worked on. That must be why Imbue was nerfed.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
This is true, it wasn't until certain PvE players complained that action was taken, by the time almost everyone, PvP and PvE was exploiting it.
I'd say my lil behemoth puts out pathetic damage, being that I usually run a dps role. Yet its not her damage that holds threat so much as the extra threat gen modifiers from CS/CC. She holds threat against very well.
My Invincible's output is more bearable, but definitely not hitting the numbers I'm used to - CS is what allows him to hold threat.
On the flip side, its very common for my cursed or soldier to get stuck running double duty as a dps tank. They hold threat (often unwillingly) through pure damage alone.
If we define 25% as solid crit chance, then all you need is an r5 gamblers in heroic gloves of precision. More than that requires a crit secondary or dex, and above 30.5% you're going to dex.
That's just the pattern playing out - exploits can begin and intensify in PvP and propagate the intensity down to other circles. Actually, probably the act of complaining about it clues in more and more, until more and more are complaining outside of the initial circle and the crescendo is finally heard in some combination of need and perhaps a bit of 'luck' as it were. We all know there is a smorgasbord of bugs and issues that aren't handled presumably due to work load on the devs. Collectively we all create a loose order of priorities, often in a pattern of cumulative fallout.
Probably adding further to Imbue's case of getting the axe is the secondary bugs with other powers, and a desire for simplicity instead of clunking through fixes. I know multiple peeps that've been around from the beginning point out it's been broken and a problem from get go. Can't endear the power to the devs any. Then there's the Sigils/DoTs + Imbue dealio hanging over their heads...
It really doesn't matter what a player is, PvP, PvE, RPer, or all of the above. Everyone who campaigns for a change should simply own up to their portion of the 'blame' - I mean, those who campaigned for it wanted it anyway, right? Why even bother deflecting blame?
Desire and motive are the vanguard of any change. It's not like the devs are going to just trip over it. Motion, expressed opinion, these things create a momentum and contribute to it happening.
No one exists in a vacuum, the idea that PvPers don't affect change is just off, to me. It doesn't matter if it's direct or not, they're playing a role. Often, seemingly spearheading it.
Personally, though, I don't think PvPers need an advocate defending them here. Even in silence or in isolated circles, many of them are simply dancing upon Imbue's grave, cheering, happy, and blame be damned!
I'm dancing upon it's beautiful fiery wings as it's reborn like the mighty phoenix into the greatest critical active offense in the game.
Snark never dies.
Your english is fine
1) When I think about the word Endurance, it means powering through things against the odds and taking a beating or two and continuing onwards and holding to your defense. To me, thats what shields are for to provide some defense. You say that consitiution is based on the resistance of your body. Fine, I agree with that but I am talking about shielding, which usually doesnt fall under consistution, at all. Shields and force fields etc are more projectionist powers and typically require (in comics) a fair amount of concentration and endurance to maintain or to make them powerful. That is my reasoning. Also your definition of Endurance sort of proves what I am saying (highlighted bit), as in you can keep going against the odds and maintain and do things longer than anyone else.
2) I wouldnt say that having an AT point of view was really a problem. I have played FF before and made some successful Mentalist/healer builds as thats what I am really into. I have spent a lot of money on this game on my silver account and yes I have gone gold a couple of times, but I found with the new system, a bit overwhelming with power choices etc. I prefer AT's due to their simplicity, although yes most if not all are flawed in some way (some more than others ofc). My suggestion was to give END some form of help if you will, the fact that my Impulse AT has a poor list of powers was also a motivation, for my suggestion. I know that some FF builds use Endurance but I think the majority do not, even if they did, I don't think my suggestion to enhance END would be shunned away at all. It wouldnt take away anything from PRE as PRE is primarily for healing/shielding. I think that is the way PRE should stay, however, END could provide an alternate route for those who want to have some form of shielding, but are running/ carrying energy hunrgy powers or something. My suggestion for the Impulse AT has been /signed before by a number of players, and really when you look at that AT, it makes sense, giving a ranged FF build a knockto on a DPS build really isnt going to help the situation especially if you are squishy/have limited heals. The Impulse AT, is an extremely KB centric build and having a knockto adds an extra layer of KB resist which you dont want when in a battle situation. Why it cant have a decent heal to keep itself alive once either KM is absorbed by Force Cascade or Personal Force Field (yes my Impulse runs with a 7.8k PFF) is totally down and FS isnt doing much against an onslaught, I dont see why replacing a reduntant power like Force Snap with a useful power like Conviction in this AT wouldnt be a good idea. Giving a bonus to Shield strength in END is an easy yes, IMO.
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He did then say that Consistution fits the bill more than Endurance, which then again leaves my suggestion to endurance to be desired.
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Oh yes it did. Have you actually sat down and done the math for the DPS increase the imbue gives an average build? It's really easy to do, because Imbue has no activation time, and powers like Defile are both a good measure and self fueling, so there's no accounting for outside factors.
Even leaving it benefiting from base severity, you'll find it's still nothing to even write home about. PvE is all about DPS, PvP is where burst matters worth a damn. This is pretty much universal, and it becomes readily apparently by the number of Epidemic Spammers VS Imbue nukers you'll see in alerts.
This was sincerely the fault of PvP it got changed like this, because the only place it was a problem was minority heavy abuse cases. You can deny it all you want, it wont change this.
Hey look, more being wrong!
Tankers had a built in mechanic known as Gauntlet, which added greatly increased threat generation to their AoEs and auras, and caused the threat of their single target attacks, which also gained increased threat generation, to chain to up to four other targets. Or maybe it was three, I forget.
In any case, there were some tanker types that didn't even pick up taunt, because it was redundant. Ice Tankers were one of such, and certain types of Firey Armor Tankers, because the inherent threat generation of their AoEs and auras was so high that just being near enemies made it damn near impossible for anything to pull agro off them.
Brutes also reportedly had a weaker version of Gauntlet, but personally I think they just had weak amounts of taunt power built into their attacks.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Consider it took Jaybezz and a few others about the same amount of time to get them to even look at Telepathy.
Then realize that all this proves is that if you ***** and whine about something long enough, whether it's justified or not, you'll get them to do something. ...And said something may be the worst solution to a problem possible.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Oh! I see now, what is your point. Why not.
But i think at an another solution.
- For REC, give it an haste bonus to charging powers (*or for end) and a minor bonus to life regeneration.
- For END, give it the bonus of cooldown reduction that is actually on the INT stat. (*or for rec)
- For INT, give it a new bonus of the same family of mental abilities (wisdom, concentration, etc). Why not this bonus to shielding you speak of + the actual reduction in power cost ?
* These bonuses with these stats will be more logic, but an inversion will be more balanced for the game.
Dex for crits, ego/str for more damage, rec for a bonus to spike damage, end for more damage with skills used more often and more activables, Con for more life and i would love more chance to be immune to kb and not a reduction of the kb as actually, Int for survival with shield powers and energy bonus, and pre more survival with buffs, heals and shields.
Every Stat will get a bonus a character wishes.
Edit: And with this, tanks who wants doing damage without the crits can do it with CON, STR, REC (or END). And supports can be better with Pre + (end)
After, perhaps my suggestions aren't good regards to the rules of the CO's pen and paper game... I don't know.
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This is the problem, INT it's a lot more useful than others stats. It's why i speak to move the cooldown reduction to an another stat (Rec or end, but End would be a better choice imho) and give an another bonus to Int, for balancing the stats.
Not to give another bonus on top of what's INT is doing actually.
This isn't the case anymore. The way the spec trees are designed did a lot to bring STR CON DEX INT PRE and EGO closer together. REC and END also got bumped up quite a bit but their entire problem is what it always was: That in and of themselves, they give lousy bonuses.
If you're taking REC or END as a Superstat, it's almost always either because of concept, or as a primary for what their trees do. I. E. Kickback based PA builds. What needs to be done, is REC and END need to gain a valuable secondary bonus, and NOT at the expense of other stats.
No more of this rob Peter to pay Paul crap.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Sorry but Int is a lot more usefull and powerfull than End and rec.
But +1 for the other point.
With the actual spec trees of all others stats who gives +equilibrium + or less power cost after a crit, or with your ego points, or etc... + the gear who gives reduction to cost powers + 1 pt avantage who gives + chance to have X energy, the End and rec stats are useless.
None of the characters needs them. They needs a secondary bonus. i'm totally agree with Somebob.
Hey look, Xao is completely wrong, who knew. Not how the mechanic worked. Gauntlet was an innate taunt mechanic, it wasn't a threat builder. There was no real threat in CoH. Tankers were given gauntlet because it was an auto taunt in all their attacks, because CoH didn't have a threat tree like current gen MMOs. Gauntlet wasn't a threat builder just a constant stream of taunting, why things like auras made tanks great, because of gauntlet. And why if oyu had multiple tanks they could sit there and trade aggro instantly with each other.
Brute's also had that mechanic inherent as well.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Threat
You are neeeeever right.
CoX had a threat system, and to be honest it was better than most I've seen.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
You guys are confused.
These imbalances were brought forward by the PVP community.....(correlation)
But i these changes were not made for the sake of the pvp community.
These changes were made for the sake of power balance......(causation)
There a big difference between the two.
Correlation does not imply causation kids....:cool: Its a common mistake and your making it.
Here's some more facts for you.
1. In the past Ame has personalty stated that he hates imbue because it makes it hard to balance the game.
2. GC has personally stated that he views PVP as insignificant.
1+2=the devs didn't like how imbue worked and don't care about pvp.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
EDIT:
To be more clear, in COX Tank agro was almost absolute and and one dimensional.
If you racall, we already had an extensive talk about Tanking when "An Alert" was on PTS and Role buffs were changing.
The devs have already explicitly stated that they don't want Tank agro to be absolute like it is in COX. They feel (and i agree) that healing and DPS agro makes the system more dynamic.
Absolute agro from COX led to things like dumpster diving and very rigid tank and spank.
The way tanking works is a design decision. Not a bug. Not a flaw. And not dependent on imbue to function.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all, only on the CO forums can you see this level of absurdity! Only a madman can understand the deep and twisted methods of the minds here, able to hold beliefs that have been proven wrong as clear as day, even within proximity of such proof!
It's as if we exist here in a bizzaro world, where wrong is right and right is wrong, or perhaps where being wrong is the thing all the popular and famous people do! Don't try to comprehend it, don't try to even explain it, just simply stare in shock and awe at the absurdity!
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Not sure if completely twisted in the head, or trying to save face.
You know what, this makes my head hurt. I can't comprehend where this kind of crap comes from, but here it is. I guess this is what I get for even bothering to reply to the same person who INSISTED you could ground an osprey even after EVERYONE swarmed them proving otherwise.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
You sure do, how about instead of crying or arguing over a dead game's taunt functions you make constructive feedback?
Oh look, Xao being completely wrong because he doesn't understand how mechanics work. Per normal. Gauntlet was a taunt mechanic. Sorry, but a tanker even with a higher threat mod was not out threating a scrapper or blaster. Sorry, but once again Xao, like you commonly are, you are wrong. What are you going to try and do, hold my one mistake over my head, considering your past levels of incompetence, since a tanker with just aura on with gauntlet would be a constant stream of taunting, and could stand there and hold aggro. This is especially true on auras that didn't do damage so you can't cite damage as a reason.
Really Xao, actually go learn mechanics before you try talking about them. Not to mention that threat chart is missing a lot more facts on it, since damage was the only threat measured, not to mention a tanker with an aura going would not be capable of holding aggro against blasters or scrappers by just standing there, oh and the threat level multiplier represented who was first in the chain of when a team was first aggro'd or a loose mob that hasn't been damaged. Really Xao, stop trying.
In fact without that taunt effect in gauntlet, tankers would never hold aggro without taking taunt, since whoever the top damage dealer was at the moment would take aggro. And guess what, that would never be the tanker.
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flight would have been touched.
This is completely irrelevant. The claim was that tanker taunts beat everything, and there was no agro system, or threat mechanic, and that was it. I not only proved that there was, but taunts were factored into it, regardless of Castle's long standing ability to twist everything out of proportion.
Keep it up, it's cute. I guess you are trying to save face.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Never claimed that. Keep reaching. And tanker taunts do beat everything. Hence why gauntlet was so powerful.
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Oh, trust me, Ascension is going to be the next to be completely and totally ripped apart and reassembled into something only vaguely resembling what it originally was.
You people keep trying to make this look like it's not a PvP thing because they don't make many PvP changes, but what you're not getting is that when they do make a change on behalf of PvP, it isn't because of PvP, it's because as time goes on the people in PvP cry LOUDER AND LOUDER until they make a kneejerk reaction and completely butcher a power, advantage, or whatever.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers
scroll to gauntlet.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
again scroll to gauntlet
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers
Can you please for clarity and the integrity of this thread, make a simple statement that crystallizes whatever it is that your mad about? And please do so without involving COX.
Honestly, with all your "HAHAHAHA," and "Ladies and gentlemen, come one come all," and "COX Tanking" I cant honestly say what your overarching point is or how it relates to imbue, telepathy or the new alert.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
No, THEY were arguing semantics. They said there was no threat, taunt was it. Well, if you bothered to read that page I linked, you'd realize that Taunts multiplied off of base threat values. They "overrode" threat in the same sense that you can "override" threat here in CO by switching roles.
The overarching point here is the people who keep saying **** in this thread to defend the butchering of imbue either don't know what they're talking about, or will say anything to defend the destruction of this power. I'm fighting fire with fire half the time, because anything else either gets met with being ignored or reposting something that was shot down. Or in this case, posting what I posted, and trying to reframe it.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
We're trying to compare the tanking of two very different games here. In our mobile, cooldown-less game, it makes sense that the Soldier mowing down enemies with her Assault Rifle is out-aggroing a specced-for-pre-On-Alert old fashioned Might tank who is hitting like a kitten because he can't keep up with the times.
I think CC and CS should become much stronger... in Tank role, with a spec to make it stronger in Hybrid (hi bulwark, how are you). CC should only break blocks in either DPS or Support role, and CS should apply the damage debuff in either DPS role or Support role.
IT'S ALSO A PVP THING, because I'd love to be able to break blocks with my Soldier in PvP and not attract the attention of the boss that can kill me in PvE. lolpvpchangesarekillingpvesendhelp
It's fun to see overzealous DPSers get themselves killed because it is entirely their own fault.
As a tank, I can hold aggro almost indefinitely unless someone throws a crippling challenge in there. As a DPS, I can drop aggro with a wide variety of powers, or doing something as simple as backing off and blocking!
Also, forgive us for wanting acceptable, fun PvP. Nothing says fun like 'I am crit-healing with my Convictions for half my health every three seconds and now I'm going to kill you with an Imbued Unleashed Rage/Force Cascade. Also if you're melee I'm going to just fly away and let loose the Cascades', amirite?
EDIT:
Unnerf Gas Arrow, Sigils and Punji Sticks, please. Also give Gas Arrow a dodge or heal debuff. Thanks in advance.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Damn, Xao's signature is inflammatory.
"the imbue change is bad for power balance or builds or skews the difficulty of the game because [insert tangible objective facts]"
more so than:
"every one that disagrees with me doesn't know what they're talking about [censored]"
But oh well, feel free to express your self in whatever way you can.
/e re-enters lurk mode.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Just couldn't help catching the start of this since I know it was me who stated hitting like a kitten. What SHOULD a might tank spec in these days,in DEX primary??
Do whatever you want statwise (Str, Con, whatever) and then grab a Gambler's Lucky Gem (preferably a rank V, rank IV will do though) and slot it in your Primary Offense.
Suddenly, life is good... or at least better than it once was! Also, take your critical specs in the Str tree. If you have the obnoxiously high amount of Q, spend 150k Q on a Vigilante's Critical Belt and just wrap that around your waist.
I am being completely and totally serious. Dex? Not necessary.
This is also why i advocate some kind of PTS reward system like:
"run the new alert 5 times on PTS and post feedback and get a free [mod or piece of blue gear or marginal quantity of questionite] on your live account"
Or at least something to motivate people to organize them selves.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I'm sick of watching the devs butcher things because of whining. This isn't an adjustment, this is a chop shop rework, an adjustment was what they did with Forms. This is bad, this is something you don't do, because it's anti-design.
Yes, a huge overhaul of a bunch of existing mechanics is more of an adjustment, when compared to completely altering the functionality of an existing power into something that vaguely resembles what it originally was. What they did to old Eyebeams is less of a butchering than this.
I don't even understand how the PvPers can't comprehend this, because while melee got dumped on everywhere, PvP is where it got screwed over the hardest.
I also cant comprehend how we're back to doing this so frequently. I thought we were finally past this.
What I want, is INTELLIGENT observation of the Cottage Rule, in moderation, with a side of not nerfing things by more than half their yield in a single swoop. This should be common sense, but it's not. If Imbue is an on next hit damage boost, it should remain an on next hit damage boost. If its yield is decreased, it shouldn't be by a HUGE GIGANTIC NERFHAMMER.
Yes, this actually applies to buffing things too. It also has exceptions to it, and while I could go listing them it would take me pages to list every exception ever learned by a game developer I've seen. There's also a ton of grey area, too. The basic point is this: In most cases, changing a power's core functionality and/or original purpose to something different, is BAD. You can even BUFF the power in the process, it's still BAD. You always run the risk of pissing off a bunch of people when something they have becomes something different, be it because it broke a build, doesn't fit concept any more, or in general just isn't as fun.
This is a something that I thought this game got over ages ago, but here we are with it again. You don't solve a problem by deleting it, or changing it completely, ever.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Dev.
Action.
Figures.
Also, new Imbue feels more or less like a desperation super-mode. Should move it to Munitions, call it Last Stand, and figure out something else for Imbue.