Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
IMO there is a difference in $100 spent on a sub and the same amount spent in the C-store. The former indicates more of a commitment to the game than the latter. To me it should therefore be rewarded more.
As for a lifetimer who put their money down in the beginning and took the risk on an unknown quantity who never logs in anymore? Their call. They made the initial risky investment and can do what ever they like with it. They still deserve all the rewards the account accrues, whether they ever see them or not.
Given that Zen purchased via the Exchange or gifted to Gold players is flagged for CO-use only, its a shame that externally purchased Zen, that can be transfered and used in ANY PWE game, cannot be used to pay for a monthly subscription to a PWE game.
That's how I'd set it up if I were in charge, but sadly PWE hasn't yet come to me for better ways to run their business.
BTW, those of you Beta LTSers flaunting your Vanguard status need to realize that from an accounting standpoint you are a liability, not an asset. Unless you are actively spending money to purchase Zen you are no better than non-paying Silvers, freaking elitists.
Sorry T_T, it had to be said. Some of these attitudes are sickening.
Signed,
A 900 day vet - EACH month paid for individually cause employees need to eat, pay bills, etc...
Given that Zen purchased via the Exchange or gifted to Gold players is flagged for CO-use only, its a shame that externally purchased Zen, that can be transfered and used in ANY PWE game, cannot be used to pay for a monthly subscription to a PWE game.
That's how I'd set it up if I were in charge, but sadly PWE hasn't yet come to me for better ways to run their business.
BTW, those of you Beta LTSers flaunting your Vanguard status need to realize that from an accounting standpoint you are a liability, not an asset. Unless you are actively spending money to purchase Zen you are no better than non-paying Silvers, freaking elitists.
Sorry T_T, it had to be said. Some of these attitudes are sickening.
Signed,
A 900 day vet - EACH month paid for individually cause employees need to eat, pay bills, etc...
Irony. Irony everywhere.
We've all done this song and dance routine before.
IMO there is a difference in $100 spent on a sub and the same amount spent in the C-store. The former indicates more of a commitment to the game than the latter. To me it should therefore be rewarded more.
No it doesn't. There's no more stopping someone from canceling their sub and not spending another dime, and someone not buying Zen any more. Lots of people subscribe to a MMO for a month or three and then quit, never spending another dime.
However the comment above about people getting what they paid for, in terms of items from the C-Store is fairly compelling. People aren't by and large buying Zen for the sake of providing cryptic money. They're doing it because they are getting something they want.
But then again, the same line of thought is true for subscriptions. If you subscribe you get what you paid for, access to the game, 500z a month, free costumes and AT's, ect... The Vet Rewards are extras, and so if you say that buying Zen doesn't count because you already are getting something, the same is true of gold subscribers.
Myself as a lifetime subscriber, I don't think I should be getting a ton of extra rewards just because I spent the money up front. I've gotten what I've paid for, and quite frankly don't see why I deserve a ton of extra stuff just because I chose to spend $200 up front. As has been pointed out, I'm actually quite a ways ahead really. I've gotten somewhere around 7,000 free zen, and even if you don't factor that in, I've of spent wayyyy more on monthly subs then $200 at this point.
Given that Zen purchased via the Exchange or gifted to Gold players is flagged for CO-use only, its a shame that externally purchased Zen, that can be transfered and used in ANY PWE game, cannot be used to pay for a monthly subscription to a PWE game.
That's how I'd set it up if I were in charge, but sadly PWE hasn't yet come to me for better ways to run their business.
BTW, those of you Beta LTSers flaunting your Vanguard status need to realize that from an accounting standpoint you are a liability, not an asset. Unless you are actively spending money to purchase Zen you are no better than non-paying Silvers, freaking elitists.
Sorry T_T, it had to be said. Some of these attitudes are sickening.
Signed, A 900 day vet - EACH month paid for individually cause employees need to eat, pay bills, etc...
Cryptic should make you a 'High Horse TP' for bringing food to their tables.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
How about "no"? Stop the wannabe wiki knowledge i know what i am saying. I practice MMA daily and jiu jitsu is a big part of the training.
Americans.. viva la big mac!
How is "I take MMA and we do some JJ" even remotely related to history or derivation of language?
I've taken years of Japanese, have studied several martial arts including some JJ, also since the age of 6 (or 7, I'm not sure exactly what year it was), unfortunately had to learn a bunch of etymology nonsense when I was trying to figure out "Journey to the West," blah blah blah nobody cares. There's be facts about, yo; that's all that really matters.
I swear, I feel like I'm listening to an American and a European arguing about where it's spelled "color" or "colour"...
It's color by the way. "Colour" is a tribute to the French Overlords that the Brits didn't want to drop because of tradition (or some other random reason).
Because the point of language isn't about the expression of ideas, informatoin, and emotions, but rather to bicker pointlessly on the interwebz instead of being productive at work.
The culmination of all human history was to bring this post, right here, to you. :biggrin:
Anyway, I think the token system is the only thing anyone is going to agree on.
Signed,
A 900 day vet - EACH month paid for individually cause employees need to eat, pay bills, etc...
Signed,
A Beta Vet who paid for the fist year (and a half? no idea), has easily spent over $1000 (I stopped keeping track a while ago) since, has paid for 2 other accounts, and continues to throw money at the screen periodically despite being a mooching, good fer nuthin LTSer.
BECAUSE I'M BETTER AND PRETTIER THAN ALL OF YOU!!!! :biggrin:
"Ju jitsu" (or "jiu jitsu", or "jujitsu") is properly spelled with a series of characters which I do not believe are programmed into this computer.
It's not even the same alphabet, guys! It's like arguing whether the word for the Islamic holy book is spelled "Koran", "Quoran", or "Qu'ran" - it's properly spelled in Arabic, not our alphabet.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
If so, these Champions Online PC Time Card (60 Days) act the same as a Gold Membership for two months at a time. Sometimes the price of a given seller is really low. Last year my wife manage to get three for me a cheaply as 12.99 each in US dollars. I see a few listed as even less than that right now. But these prices change often.
Also, if you cannot get a Credit Card, you can always talk to someone at your local bank. Perhaps you can apply for a Prepaid Credit Card. But be careful if you do, some banks charge a ridiculous fees for each transaction. Discuss everything and then take plenty of time to think about if it is worth doing.
Actually the game is earning more money from silver players. Long or short term doesn't really matter, since there are way more silver players that spend cash on z - points. Do the around 30 subs we see daily really matter against a flood of ~500 players that spend around $30 each week? Noticed where the logic kicked in, right? I bet that the veteran reward system was already there long before silver accounts and if it was, it should get updated.
I support the idea, because i like intelligent suggestions.
and what if those subscribers are all spending $30 each there's $450 a month steady income plus a additional $900 true not as much as from the free players but its steady income which can be used to plan development much better. Also I'm pretty sure your figures are very very cooked in favour of your argument.
BTW, those of you Beta LTSers flaunting your Vanguard status need to realize that from an accounting standpoint you are a liability, not an asset. Unless you are actively spending money to purchase Zen you are no better than non-paying Silvers, freaking elitists.
Luckily, from a PR and business standpoint, Cryptic is not as short-sighted as you are.
Well,some discounts or something would be nice for people who have paid for zen(NOT get it from grindonite),or something like if you spend so many things you get this reward and done.
Here is how I think this can work:
-Silver
Free player who has not paid a cent
-Premium
Free player who has purchased at least 2000 or possibly 1000 Zen at one point during their playtime,they get upped to premium status and earn a one time reward(maybe a character slot or access to certain things)
For the record, I am (currently) a 527-Day Lifetime Subscriber and my opinion is that I think Veteran Rewards should remain strictly given to subscribers. It is one of the perks to being a subscriber, one of the reasons people pay a regular fee (or invest a large sum in an LTS) to play the game. The end.
I have no problem with, in fact I would encourage, a separate rewards program for those who spend money in the C-Store. A "frequent buyer"-type program available to any player (Silver or Gold). Something along the lines earn X "tokens" for ever 1,000 Zen spent, use these tokens to shop at an in-game store to buy various things (costumes, titles, action figures, etc.).
I wouldn't mind if varations of the veteran items ended up in this "token-store", but I think they should be different enough that one could still tell the difference between each. This might even lead to some sales if people wanted to "collect" all versions of any given thing.
Sure it is, get a hundred of them and you get an uncommon dollar... Right? Right?!? :biggrin:
When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
1) This has the potential to be an intelligent and interesting discussion. I have my thoughts on this, as I'm sure many other players do as well.
2) Please steer clear of flames. I know this is a subject people feel strongly about, but it's important that everyone's opinions are respected and respectful.
I admire your optimism, but not your foresight.
I fail to understand why some silvers assume somebody who has invested hundreds of dollars before launch and is still playing now, is less likely to invest further in the game than someone who has so little commitment that they feel investing in a LTS is a bad idea. Whilst it is true that some silvers have spent more than some LTS or golds, I guarantee the reverse is true as well. Who has contributed more to the coffers is idle speculation that only Cryptic knows for sure. I could claim that without the huge cash flow invested by the initial LTS, CO could have closed years ago after the launch day disaster, after which many subscribers quit.
However, if Cryptic wanted to credit silvers for one month towards a veteran status for every $15 dollars spent at the Z store, then I have no issue, as longs as Golds and LTS get an equivalent benefit, over and above their actual veteran status.
As a LTS, I am not complaining that I only received a 2 year award, despite being present from closed beta and buying my LTS before launch, thus having over 3 years subscription. I am grateful for receiving anything extra at all and do not look a gift horse in the mouth and ask for more. Sadly, we live in an age of entitlement, during which many people think they should be rewarded for actions that do not deserve it. Some Silvers seem to resent that we get 500 zen a month, but this is only to compensate for buying a LTS for a game that went F2P, thus reducing the benefits of what we bought. Note 500 zen is not the same as what it costs to subscribe per month, so we could argue that we should get more than 500, but we don't.
Well anyone who starts spamming here, bullying me while ignoring my topic will get reported.
I'm tired of this.
If you have nothing useful to say then learn how to shut up...
Open forum, open thread.
Read your OWN posting history and take your OWN advice
This has the potential to be an intelligent and interesting discussion:
I have my thoughts on this, as I'm sure many other players do as well.
Please steer clear of flames. I know this is a subject people feel strongly about, but it's important that everyone's opinions are respected and respectful.
Silvers should absolutely NOT get veteran rewards just on the basis of money spent nor even on the basis of money spent + time account has existed...
...Your pitiful cry does nothing to sway me for it is only the wind that I hear.
You do not qualify for veteran rewards because you have not fulfilled the requirements for doing so, specifically, you have not been a subscriber for the required amount of days.
Once that requirement is met, regardless of how much money you may have spent in excess of that, you will be awarded the veteran rewards, and not a moment before.
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
I think that veteran rewards for Silvers could work.
I do think that both time played and money spent should be factored in.
So a Silver would get veteran reward time credit for every month in which they have paid at least $15. Money spent above and beyond that $15 would not count any more than a subscriber's expenditures above their monthly sub fee do.
For example:
January: Silver spends $20 and accumulates 30 days of time for vet rewards.
February: Silver spends $10 and accumulates no time for vet rewards.
March: Silver spends $15 and accumulates 28 days of time for vet rewards.
In this fashion we ensure that a Silver gets as much in the way of rewards as if he spent the same amount of money he is spending on the game on a sub fee, without getting rewards for less or quicker than if he subbed.
CoH had a pretty awesome Rewards system. Subscribers get a token every month as part of their sub, which can be used to select vet rewards from a number of tiers (higher tiers unlock as you spend tokens). However, everyone - subscribed or not - gets a token for every $15 they spend on the Market.
Basically, players get rewarded for being PAYING customers instead of leeches. Absolute best customer loyalty scheme I've seen in an MMO to date.
So basically reward system for supporting the game with money, regardless of account type, and having subscription still gives an advantage.
There is one catch, however - system should count only zen purchased with real money, not with Questionite.
Also, it may be wise to keep separate pool of rewards for subscription and for spending money in Z-Store. A similar rewards, but with different textures, for example.
Also, I love when anyone mentions common sense. Isn't it a least common of all things?
PS.: In the end, rewards are a nice touch, but only a cosmetic thing. You don't buy/subcribe for rewards, your real reward is the game keeping afloat.
If so, these Champions Online PC Time Card (60 Days) act the same as a Gold Membership for two months at a time. Sometimes the price of a given seller is really low. Last year my wife manage to get three for me a cheaply as 12.99 each in US dollars. I see a few listed as even less than that right now. But these prices change often.
Also, if you cannot get a Credit Card, you can always talk to someone at your local bank. Perhaps you can apply for a Prepaid Credit Card. But be careful if you do, some banks charge a ridiculous fees for each transaction. Discuss everything and then take plenty of time to think about if it is worth doing.
For the record, I am (currently) a 527-Day Lifetime Subscriber and my opinion is that I think Veteran Rewards should remain strictly given to subscribers. It is one of the perks to being a subscriber, one of the reasons people pay a regular fee (or invest a large sum in an LTS) to play the game. The end.
I have no problem with, in fact I would encourage, a separate rewards program for those who spend money in the C-Store. A "frequent buyer"-type program available to any player (Silver or Gold). Something along the lines earn X "tokens" for ever 1,000 Zen spent, use these tokens to shop at an in-game store to buy various things (costumes, titles, action figures, etc.).
I wouldn't mind if varations of the veteran items ended up in this "token-store", but I think they should be different enough that one could still tell the difference between each. This might even lead to some sales if people wanted to "collect" all versions of any given thing.
Sure it is, get a hundred of them and you get an uncommon dollar... Right? Right?!? :biggrin:
I think something like this would be nice, too.
Not silver rewards, per se, but simply a "frequent buyer" program. This would be available to all who buy enough stuff.
Arguing over how a Japanese word should be spelled using an alphabet derived from the Greek derivation of the Phoenecian is pointless.
What's next, the proper spelling in Klingon and Elvish ?
No idea why these people keep bringing up jyuu jyuutsu everytime but (<
thats the correct spelling based on katakana and romanji but due to english people having difficulty understanding that somehow you guys added some I's to it, its my first language but don't ask me how you guys translated it into that version you use.)
Anyway, this entire thread has been full of elitism and biased opinions on every single page. People keep bringing up the amount of money they've put into this game, without actually accounting for how actually productive you are in it. Which is what should matter the most above all else. You could put 6000$ in this game and it wouldn't mean a damn thing unless there's actually other people around you to play and enjoy it with you.
You can't play an mmo without people, so, first shame to all the golds in this thread be-rating silver players because without them zone chat would be dead past a certain point at night, Alerts would have 5 minute queues, and normal lowbie zones and zone in general would look like ghost towns. And I'm talking about post release, all games have huge populations at the beginning of their release but those numbers don't matter unless you can retain those players. Everybody remembers Ai....on, because everybody and their mother played it for a year, got tired of it and moved onto the next bandwagon mmo.
Cryptic offered a way to retain population by offering silver status and allowing this game not to flat out die and get looked at as some passing fad that kids will play for a while and move onto the next big thing, (you can't actually stop that movement, because just this year it was Diablo 3, and now its time to jump ship out of their and move to the guild wars 3 boat, the next couple of years everyone will jump ship and bandwagon onto Arche Age, happens all the time, you cant stop it.)
Second, shame to the silvers in this thread claiming that their dollar speaks higher than their time and activity. It doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't work that way.
Several people suggested interesting and constructive ways in this thread to solve the problem that wouldn't leave anybody out in the equation and allow everyone to be awarded in some way and be treated fairly and equally.
But on the same token, there's been so much disgusting elitism and pompous attitude in this thread it makes me wonder why the hell any dev or community manager should even consider giving it the time of day or anything else said here.
If this was a single player game then by all means your elitism is fine, but when we're talking about a game where teamwork is rewarded and required in some cases and a game where mass co-operative populous is needed to play it, you can put that pompous attitude to bed. How about, instead of finding new ways to be better than the next guy in every grain of rice involved you guys learn how to improve each other and the game as a whole. Freakin pathetic...
CoH had a pretty awesome Rewards system. Subscribers get a token every month as part of their sub, which can be used to select vet rewards from a number of tiers (higher tiers unlock as you spend tokens). However, everyone - subscribed or not - gets a token for every $15 they spend on the Market.
Basically, players get rewarded for being PAYING customers instead of leeches. Absolute best customer loyalty scheme I've seen in an MMO to date.
I really liked the Paragon Rewards system of CoH/V. Vets and subscribers didn't lose anything, and it was more incentive for free players to spend money. Also, latecoming subscribers (or those who may have missed some time, for whatever reason) could play 'catch-up' by by spending money in the store.
If a 'vet points for real money spent' system could be implemented without breaking anything, I'd certainly appreciate it.
But on the same token, there's been so much disgusting elitism and pompous attitude in this thread it makes me wonder why the hell any dev or community manager should even consider giving it the time of day or anything else said here.
What a ridiculous statement. Why do they do it? At the end of the day it's for one thing - money. They could care less what kind of attitudes we have on this forum or anywhere else as long as we keep giving them our money. If they believe that giving us little carrots and anniversary gifts will encourage us to give them more of it, they'll keep doing it. That'll be the primary factor that determines whether Silvers get theirs or not, not anything we may say here on these forums.
"Ju jitsu" (or "jiu jitsu", or "jujitsu") is properly spelled with a series of characters which I do not believe are programmed into this computer.
It's not even the same alphabet, guys! It's like arguing whether the word for the Islamic holy book is spelled "Koran", "Quoran", or "Qu'ran" - it's properly spelled in Arabic, not our alphabet.
Your keyboard not mine pal
BEHOLD JUJITSU IN ITS TRUE FORM \o/ 柔術 <
yesh its a Christmas tree and a Amish barn.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I really liked the Paragon Rewards system of CoH/V. Vets and subscribers didn't lose anything, and it was more incentive for free players to spend money. Also, latecoming subscribers (or those who may have missed some time, for whatever reason) could play 'catch-up' by by spending money in the store.
If a 'vet points for real money spent' system could be implemented without breaking anything, I'd certainly appreciate it.
The only way I would back this... is if it was applied retroactively to the original launch date. Accounting for all monies spent by the players. It is the only way it would be fair since the time accrued starts then as well
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
They could care less what kind of attitudes we have on this forum or anywhere else as long as we keep giving them our money.
Trailturtle:1) This has the potential to be an intelligent and interesting discussion. I have my thoughts on this, as I'm sure many other players do as well.
2) Please steer clear of flames. I know this is a subject people feel strongly about, but it's important that everyone's opinions are respected and respectful.
--
Having trouble with something? Check the support page, especially the FAQ for account linking. If you're still having trouble, I recommend sending a ticket in to Support.
So, by saying that and generalizing cryptics staff you think that trailturtle also cares about nothing else but money right? Because he's a money grubber, so posting an "Im watching this thread" note in a thread is totally going to earn him some bonus sales money...because the forum and money totally have anything to do with each other..../sarcasm end.
Cryptic obviously does care, or else they'd tell trail to redact his statement in a sensitive thread. But thats not the crazy part. The crazy part is when, he posts in this thread suggesting that important intelligent and interesting discussion can be brought from this, (code word for, important people who can actually change anything about this subject might be interested in reading this) So he says steer clear of flames, everyone's opinions are respected and respectful, yet within the next page the respectful part falls off the shelf. And we end up with the things I mentioned already plus the new "Cryptic only cares about money" aka you can word your way around it as many times as you want but you're still generalizing the people that work there as greedy. Without actually considering that maybe some developers there actually work on this game because they love what they do, love the game, and the fact that they're getting paid to do something they love is icing on the cake.
I've worked on mmo's on a smaller scale than this one and the statement you just made can't be anymore incorrect. Because no matter how much money you pay me....I can't take that money and insert it into my CD drive, press play, and have the money automatically design updates and other things to keep players interested and enjoy the game. All of the things that it takes to drive a successful mmo come from the heart of the developers themselves. Their Ferrari doesn't design the game, they do, and if they can't get people to be more than willing to throw their money at the screen than they will never afford that Ferrari. So for them to actually do that it takes love for the game and being the exact opposite of greedy.
But when you sit here and show them the attitude of, blah this game cryptic is greedy, only X players deserve anything and all other players are blah blah, its like telling your mother you want more allowance and your sister doesn't matter in life and expecting your mother (hopefully a good mother) to hear anything that you're saying in that instance as valid against their own daughter.
You know, on careful consideration, there is the germ of an idea here. What you want to look at is tiers of reward - one tier is for Silvers, the other is for Golds (and of course Gold would get the Silver tier as well, to save on QQs).
So, say, after a Silver has been playing for 100 days they get, oh, I dunno, free access to one of the lesser-selling Costume Packs (no matter how poorly they sell, they're still fun!). After 200 days, maybe a free Retrain or a weapon skin pack or something. 300 days, and maybe they get a good Costume Set, or a single character slot, or something along those lines. And so forth.
That way, the existing Veteran Rewards remain exclusive for the Gold players, as some desire, while still rewarding those of us who've stuck with the game, and in all probability paid in some cash money, as mere Silvers.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
So, by saying that and generalizing cryptics staff you think that trailturtle also cares about nothing else but money right? Because he's a money grubber, so posting an "Im watching this thread" note in a thread is totally going to earn him some bonus sales money...because the forum and money totally have anything to do with each other..../sarcasm end.
I'll bet you also believe health insurance companies care about patients' health, don't you?
You know, on careful consideration, there is the germ of an idea here. What you want to look at is tiers of reward - one tier is for Silvers, the other is for Golds (and of course Gold would get the Silver tier as well, to save on QQs).
So, say, after a Silver has been playing for 100 days they get, oh, I dunno, free access to one of the lesser-selling Costume Packs (no matter how poorly they sell, they're still fun!). After 200 days, maybe a free Retrain or a weapon skin pack or something. 300 days, and maybe they get a good Costume Set, or a single character slot, or something along those lines. And so forth.
That way, the existing Veteran Rewards remain exclusive for the Gold players, as some desire, while still rewarding those of us who've stuck with the game, and in all probability paid in some cash money, as mere Silvers.
Costume packs and any other one-off items in the C-Store would still be a problem, as you'll get complaints from folks who actually purchased them and therefore get nothing as a reward...
About the only things I could think of that would work in this manner would be services; costume slots, character slots, Retrains, and the like. I suppose consumables would work too...
The key would be to give Silvers things that Golds already have or don't need so there are no complaints about Silvers getting things that Golds don't...
Edit: Some other ideas...
Base Silver rewards on actual game time played, rather than the date the account was created...
Raise the Global (Resource) cap as a reward; maybe 50 or 100 per 100 days...
C-Store discounts that only apply to Free for Gold items...
Just throwing out ideas. I'm not adverse to the concept of Silver rewards, they just shouldn't be things Golds cant or don't already get...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
I really liked the Paragon Rewards system of CoH/V. Vets and subscribers didn't lose anything, and it was more incentive for free players to spend money. Also, latecoming subscribers (or those who may have missed some time, for whatever reason) could play 'catch-up' by by spending money in the store.
If a 'vet points for real money spent' system could be implemented without breaking anything, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Agreed, especially if it is enacted retroactively to some degree. DCUO and some other F2P mmos have this option as well. An added incentive to spend is always nice. It would be cool if one reward was a raised money limit for that silver account. I always hear about people wanting to do away with the money limit on silvers or provide some purchasable option but a reward system would probably work much better. Maybe a slight increase in the money limit with each amount of zen bought or something.
While the idea of giving away costume packs seems like a good idea, I think providing services first would be better, saving free costume packs for people who spend well over $100 in C-store purchases (yes people like this exist (*raises hand sheepishly* lol)).
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
Well at first I thought silvers that spend money getting rewards might be a good idea but then it crossed my mind that gold players get this for providing constant support. The same as lifers get extra little things for expending a lump sum. I as a gold player have never once said I want the extras a lifetime sub brings even once I have spent the same amount on the game that would have purchased a lifetime sub.
The way I see it if your silver you get access to the game and can purchase what you want and it's yours. If your gold you get access to a lot of things with your sub that you loose if you go silver but you also get a few perks like your stipend and veteran rewards you can keep even if you turn silver. If your a lifetime subscriber you take a risk that the game may not last long enough to pay for itself so you get a few more perks like a forum title and costume bits and an action figure.
So as things stand they seem balanced to me as you get what you commit to.
You could put 6000$ in this game and it wouldn't mean a damn thing unless there's actually other people around you to play and enjoy it with you. .
Afraid that I have to disagree with this part.
You get a hundred thousand people all willing to spend six grand each on the game and it will mean a lot to the survival and growth of the game that those people all apparently enjoy (I would hope that they enjoy it if they are willing to spend that kind of money on it).
Conversely you get a hundred thousand people to play a game, contribute to its community, socialize, be helpful, etc, while not paying a dime, and the game will die. Quickly.
Trailturtle:1) This has the potential to be an intelligent and interesting discussion. I have my thoughts on this, as I'm sure many other players do as well.
2) Please steer clear of flames. I know this is a subject people feel strongly about, but it's important that everyone's opinions are respected and respectful.
--
Having trouble with something? Check the support page, especially the FAQ for account linking. If you're still having trouble, I recommend sending a ticket in to Support.
So, by saying that and generalizing cryptics staff you think that trailturtle also cares about nothing else but money right? Because he's a money grubber, so posting an "Im watching this thread" note in a thread is totally going to earn him some bonus sales money...because the forum and money totally have anything to do with each other..../sarcasm end.
Cryptic obviously does care, or else they'd tell trail to redact his statement in a sensitive thread. But thats not the crazy part. The crazy part is when, he posts in this thread suggesting that important intelligent and interesting discussion can be brought from this, (code word for, important people who can actually change anything about this subject might be interested in reading this) So he says steer clear of flames, everyone's opinions are respected and respectful, yet within the next page the respectful part falls off the shelf. And we end up with the things I mentioned already plus the new "Cryptic only cares about money" aka you can word your way around it as many times as you want but you're still generalizing the people that work there as greedy. Without actually considering that maybe some developers there actually work on this game because they love what they do, love the game, and the fact that they're getting paid to do something they love is icing on the cake.
I've worked on mmo's on a smaller scale than this one and the statement you just made can't be anymore incorrect. Because no matter how much money you pay me....I can't take that money and insert it into my CD drive, press play, and have the money automatically design updates and other things to keep players interested and enjoy the game. All of the things that it takes to drive a successful mmo come from the heart of the developers themselves. Their Ferrari doesn't design the game, they do, and if they can't get people to be more than willing to throw their money at the screen than they will never afford that Ferrari. So for them to actually do that it takes love for the game and being the exact opposite of greedy.
But when you sit here and show them the attitude of, blah this game cryptic is greedy, only X players deserve anything and all other players are blah blah, its like telling your mother you want more allowance and your sister doesn't matter in life and expecting your mother (hopefully a good mother) to hear anything that you're saying in that instance as valid against their own daughter.
He did not say that employees were individually greedy. When speaking about a corporation one is not making comments about any given particular employee of that company.
He also did not say that Cryptic is greedy. Cryptic, as a for profit corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of another for profit, publicly traded corporation, has a duty to make money for its shareholders. That is why it exists.
It is no more greedy for Cryptic to have a goal of making money for its owners than for me to insist on being paid for my own labor by my employer.
Note that Helbjorn referred to Cryptic's goal of making money as a positive thing, as the way it should be for a for profit company. He was not denigrating the company in any way.
You speak of the drive to make a successful MMO coming from the heart. Perhaps so. How many successful MMO's have a creation budget of $0 ?
Did you work for free on the games you mentioned above ?
Did the other developers work for free?
Were the computers, servers, office space, etc all donated for free ?
Simply put an MMO will not exist without money. Period.
Something I would like to point out is that being Silver or Gold is not a classification of person. This is not some Patrician vs Pedestrian division here.
Silver vs Gold is purely a matter of two people choosing to pay for their gaming experience in different ways. Its like cash vs check. Neither is in any way, shape, or form a reflection on the individual.
Cryptic, as is their right, have chosen to provide a reward for those who choose to pay for the game in one specific way. This is not substantially different from a magazine publisher offering advantages to those who subscribe rather than buying at the newsstand.
Ultimately Cryptic advertises what is included in a subscription, and some people make a choice to not buy in.
Thats it. A choice of whether or not to pay for veteran rewards. Some have decided yes, others have decided no. Its not as if Cryptic is arbitrarily deciding to limit which players can subscribe.
I personally think that it would be a sound business decision for Cryptic to use the veteran reward incentive to encourage micro-transactions by those players who have chosen to not subscribe, but its their call to make.
so I started as a silver, converted to gold, blew the credit limit in the first month. That was my holiday pay (Ok I had a problem with the store, I thought I was buying one thing,when in fact it was selling me character slots, that was NOT what I had highlighted)
I am now LTS, I regularly get zen ,usually to either get a costume set, junk bags or just to dump on the Q exchange and watch the buy price drop...(ahh I can hear the screams from here)
There are a lot of people who can't pay for subs but can afford to buy zen. Whether because of work or lack thereof, family, bills etc. Some people simply don't have the access to a payment method.
But I agree with the Token rewards system. A reward system like that will reward those people who can support through purchases of zen.
We need everyone playing, if a simple acct payment linked reward will help more people want to play, I'm all for it.
It may have to be cumulative, so you can collect up to what you need for a token, that way those who can only afford small purchases, I think 500 zen is the lowest amount, don't lose out.
Since the tokens will be when they pay for some zen, they will be being rewarded when they financially support the game, same as rewards for subs are on time subbed.
Since people would be able to collect them to aim for higher rewards(hopefully) rather than getting them in a set order, they would be able to aim for the ones they want.
I use Ultimategamecards for purchases, so I don't know what denominations zen cards come in.
***hmmm sorry that got a bit long. and incoherent in places. welcome to a conversation with me.
This idea if it were to become something different from sub based vet rewards I could support but I would think the money to zen vet rewards could be a point system with an assortment of rewards available.
Formerly known as NewAgeKnight in the Forums of old.
Here's the problem with any system being proposed.
No matter what, if subscribers are getting something that is not available to non-subscribers, the non-subs will be unhappy for whatever reasons and call it unfair. "I spent money so I should be treated equally."
However, if the subscribers are not getting something that is not available to non-subscribers, the subs will be unhappy for whatever reasons and call it unfair. "I subscribed so I should get something for that promise."
It's 2 different mentalities completely at odds.
One is arguing for the dollar amount, the other is arguing merit of loyalty.
In the end, there will be no agreement, because even if a point system is put in place non-subs will not have access to the sub benefits, and if they do subs will be unhappy and ask what the point of subbing was.
Here's the other point which Ashen kinda brought up -
No matter the industry there is always a benefit to subscribing over a la carte.
So... because everyone else is posting here, i thought i might add my own say, and impart an idea incase others might agree. As i saw many would seem to agree with some token system for it. I thought of a different route. Why not just allow silvers to earn the same vet rewards, but it takes 1.5-2 times longer?
Like every 150 days per reward or 200, as opposed to 100 for gold subscribers. and also they have to spend atleast the equivilant amount for zen as they would if it was a month of gold to have that counter tick 30 days?
Or will someone just claim that will also diminish the value of gold sub too, even if it meant the silver route would take MUCH longer for more of the cost.
Why not just allow silvers to earn the same vet rewards, but it takes 1.5-2 times longer?
Because there's no way of knowing if a sliver account has contributed a single thing to the game for those days.
There's something to be said for more players and the effect that it has on a MMO as a whole. But at least with gold accounts you know that they're sending Cryptic money each month. You can't say the same about sliver accounts.
Because there's no way of knowing if a sliver account has contributed a single thing to the game for those days.
There's something to be said for more players and the effect that it has on a MMO as a whole. But at least with gold accounts you know that they're sending Cryptic money each month. You can't say the same about sliver accounts.
I'm pretty sure Cryptic/PWE knows which Silver accounts are actually buying Zen and which ones aren't.
Comments
Just give it up...
I swear, I feel like I'm listening to an American and a European arguing about where it's spelled "color" or "colour"...
Who cares, as long as you get the message across?
By the by, practice all you want, Kenpo teaches. That gives him a bit more validity than you in my eyes...
:rolleyes:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
As for a lifetimer who put their money down in the beginning and took the risk on an unknown quantity who never logs in anymore? Their call. They made the initial risky investment and can do what ever they like with it. They still deserve all the rewards the account accrues, whether they ever see them or not.
That's how I'd set it up if I were in charge, but sadly PWE hasn't yet come to me for better ways to run their business.
BTW, those of you Beta LTSers flaunting your Vanguard status need to realize that from an accounting standpoint you are a liability, not an asset. Unless you are actively spending money to purchase Zen you are no better than non-paying Silvers, freaking elitists.
Sorry T_T, it had to be said. Some of these attitudes are sickening.
Signed,
A 900 day vet - EACH month paid for individually cause employees need to eat, pay bills, etc...
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Irony. Irony everywhere.
We've all done this song and dance routine before.
No it doesn't. There's no more stopping someone from canceling their sub and not spending another dime, and someone not buying Zen any more. Lots of people subscribe to a MMO for a month or three and then quit, never spending another dime.
However the comment above about people getting what they paid for, in terms of items from the C-Store is fairly compelling. People aren't by and large buying Zen for the sake of providing cryptic money. They're doing it because they are getting something they want.
But then again, the same line of thought is true for subscriptions. If you subscribe you get what you paid for, access to the game, 500z a month, free costumes and AT's, ect... The Vet Rewards are extras, and so if you say that buying Zen doesn't count because you already are getting something, the same is true of gold subscribers.
Myself as a lifetime subscriber, I don't think I should be getting a ton of extra rewards just because I spent the money up front. I've gotten what I've paid for, and quite frankly don't see why I deserve a ton of extra stuff just because I chose to spend $200 up front. As has been pointed out, I'm actually quite a ways ahead really. I've gotten somewhere around 7,000 free zen, and even if you don't factor that in, I've of spent wayyyy more on monthly subs then $200 at this point.
Cryptic should make you a 'High Horse TP' for bringing food to their tables.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
How is "I take MMA and we do some JJ" even remotely related to history or derivation of language?
I've taken years of Japanese, have studied several martial arts including some JJ, also since the age of 6 (or 7, I'm not sure exactly what year it was), unfortunately had to learn a bunch of etymology nonsense when I was trying to figure out "Journey to the West," blah blah blah nobody cares. There's be facts about, yo; that's all that really matters.
So I counter with "uh huh. I saw'd it."
It's color by the way. "Colour" is a tribute to the French Overlords that the Brits didn't want to drop because of tradition (or some other random reason).
Because the point of language isn't about the expression of ideas, informatoin, and emotions, but rather to bicker pointlessly on the interwebz instead of being productive at work.
The culmination of all human history was to bring this post, right here, to you. :biggrin:
Anyway, I think the token system is the only thing anyone is going to agree on.
Signed,
A Beta Vet who paid for the fist year (and a half? no idea), has easily spent over $1000 (I stopped keeping track a while ago) since, has paid for 2 other accounts, and continues to throw money at the screen periodically despite being a mooching, good fer nuthin LTSer.
BECAUSE I'M BETTER AND PRETTIER THAN ALL OF YOU!!!! :biggrin:
It's not even the same alphabet, guys! It's like arguing whether the word for the Islamic holy book is spelled "Koran", "Quoran", or "Qu'ran" - it's properly spelled in Arabic, not our alphabet.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I do not know if this would help you or not, but can you make any purchases via Amazon.com?
http://www.amazon.com/Champions-Online-PC-Time-Card-Days/dp/B00286R3LI/ref=sr_1_1_title_0?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1348251589&sr=1-1&keywords=Champions+Online+PC+Time+Card+%2860+Days%29
If so, these Champions Online PC Time Card (60 Days) act the same as a Gold Membership for two months at a time. Sometimes the price of a given seller is really low. Last year my wife manage to get three for me a cheaply as 12.99 each in US dollars. I see a few listed as even less than that right now. But these prices change often.
Also, if you cannot get a Credit Card, you can always talk to someone at your local bank. Perhaps you can apply for a Prepaid Credit Card. But be careful if you do, some banks charge a ridiculous fees for each transaction. Discuss everything and then take plenty of time to think about if it is worth doing.
http://credit.about.com/od/creditcardbasics/a/prepaidcard.htm
If you can get a Pre-PCC, then using one on Amazon would be a snap.
Again, I don't know you situation, but try talking to people you know in RL about options you may not be aware of.
Good Luck.
and what if those subscribers are all spending $30 each there's $450 a month steady income plus a additional $900 true not as much as from the free players but its steady income which can be used to plan development much better. Also I'm pretty sure your figures are very very cooked in favour of your argument.
Here is how I think this can work:
-Silver
Free player who has not paid a cent
-Premium
Free player who has purchased at least 2000 or possibly 1000 Zen at one point during their playtime,they get upped to premium status and earn a one time reward(maybe a character slot or access to certain things)
-Gold
no changes here
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I know. some would call that crazy....
But not me, its been made clear to me some might take umbrage at that. So im going to avoid that from now on.
I have no problem with, in fact I would encourage, a separate rewards program for those who spend money in the C-Store. A "frequent buyer"-type program available to any player (Silver or Gold). Something along the lines earn X "tokens" for ever 1,000 Zen spent, use these tokens to shop at an in-game store to buy various things (costumes, titles, action figures, etc.).
I wouldn't mind if varations of the veteran items ended up in this "token-store", but I think they should be different enough that one could still tell the difference between each. This might even lead to some sales if people wanted to "collect" all versions of any given thing.
Sure it is, get a hundred of them and you get an uncommon dollar... Right? Right?!? :biggrin:
When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
I admire your optimism, but not your foresight.
I fail to understand why some silvers assume somebody who has invested hundreds of dollars before launch and is still playing now, is less likely to invest further in the game than someone who has so little commitment that they feel investing in a LTS is a bad idea. Whilst it is true that some silvers have spent more than some LTS or golds, I guarantee the reverse is true as well. Who has contributed more to the coffers is idle speculation that only Cryptic knows for sure. I could claim that without the huge cash flow invested by the initial LTS, CO could have closed years ago after the launch day disaster, after which many subscribers quit.
However, if Cryptic wanted to credit silvers for one month towards a veteran status for every $15 dollars spent at the Z store, then I have no issue, as longs as Golds and LTS get an equivalent benefit, over and above their actual veteran status.
As a LTS, I am not complaining that I only received a 2 year award, despite being present from closed beta and buying my LTS before launch, thus having over 3 years subscription. I am grateful for receiving anything extra at all and do not look a gift horse in the mouth and ask for more. Sadly, we live in an age of entitlement, during which many people think they should be rewarded for actions that do not deserve it. Some Silvers seem to resent that we get 500 zen a month, but this is only to compensate for buying a LTS for a game that went F2P, thus reducing the benefits of what we bought. Note 500 zen is not the same as what it costs to subscribe per month, so we could argue that we should get more than 500, but we don't.
Read your OWN posting history and take your OWN advice
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
You, good sir, win.
Arguing over how a Japanese word should be spelled using an alphabet derived from the Greek derivation of the Phoenecian is pointless.
What's next, the proper spelling in Klingon and Elvish ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
K'Pow and Frou-Froutsu
I fully admit, I spewed beer...
Brilliant!
:biggrin:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
And/or this:
So basically reward system for supporting the game with money, regardless of account type, and having subscription still gives an advantage.
There is one catch, however - system should count only zen purchased with real money, not with Questionite.
Also, it may be wise to keep separate pool of rewards for subscription and for spending money in Z-Store. A similar rewards, but with different textures, for example.
Also, I love when anyone mentions common sense. Isn't it a least common of all things?
PS.: In the end, rewards are a nice touch, but only a cosmetic thing. You don't buy/subcribe for rewards, your real reward is the game keeping afloat.
Thank you for the effort, ill check this amazon offer .. hopefully if i switch back my silver freeform will be still available..lol
For the bank, i dont own a bank account because i like to have my money in real ^^
For IRL , my wife ad me do not have contact with the outside ... those cause to much trouble at all =P
I think something like this would be nice, too.
Not silver rewards, per se, but simply a "frequent buyer" program. This would be available to all who buy enough stuff.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
No idea why these people keep bringing up jyuu jyuutsu everytime but (<
thats the correct spelling based on katakana and romanji but due to english people having difficulty understanding that somehow you guys added some I's to it, its my first language but don't ask me how you guys translated it into that version you use.)
Anyway, this entire thread has been full of elitism and biased opinions on every single page. People keep bringing up the amount of money they've put into this game, without actually accounting for how actually productive you are in it. Which is what should matter the most above all else. You could put 6000$ in this game and it wouldn't mean a damn thing unless there's actually other people around you to play and enjoy it with you.
You can't play an mmo without people, so, first shame to all the golds in this thread be-rating silver players because without them zone chat would be dead past a certain point at night, Alerts would have 5 minute queues, and normal lowbie zones and zone in general would look like ghost towns. And I'm talking about post release, all games have huge populations at the beginning of their release but those numbers don't matter unless you can retain those players. Everybody remembers Ai....on, because everybody and their mother played it for a year, got tired of it and moved onto the next bandwagon mmo.
Cryptic offered a way to retain population by offering silver status and allowing this game not to flat out die and get looked at as some passing fad that kids will play for a while and move onto the next big thing, (you can't actually stop that movement, because just this year it was Diablo 3, and now its time to jump ship out of their and move to the guild wars 3 boat, the next couple of years everyone will jump ship and bandwagon onto Arche Age, happens all the time, you cant stop it.)
Second, shame to the silvers in this thread claiming that their dollar speaks higher than their time and activity. It doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't work that way.
Several people suggested interesting and constructive ways in this thread to solve the problem that wouldn't leave anybody out in the equation and allow everyone to be awarded in some way and be treated fairly and equally.
But on the same token, there's been so much disgusting elitism and pompous attitude in this thread it makes me wonder why the hell any dev or community manager should even consider giving it the time of day or anything else said here.
If this was a single player game then by all means your elitism is fine, but when we're talking about a game where teamwork is rewarded and required in some cases and a game where mass co-operative populous is needed to play it, you can put that pompous attitude to bed. How about, instead of finding new ways to be better than the next guy in every grain of rice involved you guys learn how to improve each other and the game as a whole. Freakin pathetic...
I really liked the Paragon Rewards system of CoH/V. Vets and subscribers didn't lose anything, and it was more incentive for free players to spend money. Also, latecoming subscribers (or those who may have missed some time, for whatever reason) could play 'catch-up' by by spending money in the store.
If a 'vet points for real money spent' system could be implemented without breaking anything, I'd certainly appreciate it.
I've never encountered that type of elitism in-game.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
What a ridiculous statement. Why do they do it? At the end of the day it's for one thing - money. They could care less what kind of attitudes we have on this forum or anywhere else as long as we keep giving them our money. If they believe that giving us little carrots and anniversary gifts will encourage us to give them more of it, they'll keep doing it. That'll be the primary factor that determines whether Silvers get theirs or not, not anything we may say here on these forums.
I feel it to padwan there is a disturbance in the Shev.
*does a Yoda frown*
Your keyboard not mine pal
BEHOLD JUJITSU IN ITS TRUE FORM \o/ 柔術 <
yesh its a Christmas tree and a Amish barn.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This is because the Shev has been back. And is no longer the Shev.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2439261&postcount=1
Behold and marvel at the wonder!
The only way I would back this... is if it was applied retroactively to the original launch date. Accounting for all monies spent by the players. It is the only way it would be fair since the time accrued starts then as well
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
Trailturtle:1) This has the potential to be an intelligent and interesting discussion. I have my thoughts on this, as I'm sure many other players do as well.
2) Please steer clear of flames. I know this is a subject people feel strongly about, but it's important that everyone's opinions are respected and respectful.
--
Having trouble with something? Check the support page, especially the FAQ for account linking. If you're still having trouble, I recommend sending a ticket in to Support.
So, by saying that and generalizing cryptics staff you think that trailturtle also cares about nothing else but money right? Because he's a money grubber, so posting an "Im watching this thread" note in a thread is totally going to earn him some bonus sales money...because the forum and money totally have anything to do with each other..../sarcasm end.
Cryptic obviously does care, or else they'd tell trail to redact his statement in a sensitive thread. But thats not the crazy part. The crazy part is when, he posts in this thread suggesting that important intelligent and interesting discussion can be brought from this, (code word for, important people who can actually change anything about this subject might be interested in reading this) So he says steer clear of flames, everyone's opinions are respected and respectful, yet within the next page the respectful part falls off the shelf. And we end up with the things I mentioned already plus the new "Cryptic only cares about money" aka you can word your way around it as many times as you want but you're still generalizing the people that work there as greedy. Without actually considering that maybe some developers there actually work on this game because they love what they do, love the game, and the fact that they're getting paid to do something they love is icing on the cake.
I've worked on mmo's on a smaller scale than this one and the statement you just made can't be anymore incorrect. Because no matter how much money you pay me....I can't take that money and insert it into my CD drive, press play, and have the money automatically design updates and other things to keep players interested and enjoy the game. All of the things that it takes to drive a successful mmo come from the heart of the developers themselves. Their Ferrari doesn't design the game, they do, and if they can't get people to be more than willing to throw their money at the screen than they will never afford that Ferrari. So for them to actually do that it takes love for the game and being the exact opposite of greedy.
But when you sit here and show them the attitude of, blah this game cryptic is greedy, only X players deserve anything and all other players are blah blah, its like telling your mother you want more allowance and your sister doesn't matter in life and expecting your mother (hopefully a good mother) to hear anything that you're saying in that instance as valid against their own daughter.
So, say, after a Silver has been playing for 100 days they get, oh, I dunno, free access to one of the lesser-selling Costume Packs (no matter how poorly they sell, they're still fun!). After 200 days, maybe a free Retrain or a weapon skin pack or something. 300 days, and maybe they get a good Costume Set, or a single character slot, or something along those lines. And so forth.
That way, the existing Veteran Rewards remain exclusive for the Gold players, as some desire, while still rewarding those of us who've stuck with the game, and in all probability paid in some cash money, as mere Silvers.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'll bet you also believe health insurance companies care about patients' health, don't you?
The Naivete is strong in this one...
Costume packs and any other one-off items in the C-Store would still be a problem, as you'll get complaints from folks who actually purchased them and therefore get nothing as a reward...
About the only things I could think of that would work in this manner would be services; costume slots, character slots, Retrains, and the like. I suppose consumables would work too...
The key would be to give Silvers things that Golds already have or don't need so there are no complaints about Silvers getting things that Golds don't...
Edit: Some other ideas...
Base Silver rewards on actual game time played, rather than the date the account was created...
Raise the Global (Resource) cap as a reward; maybe 50 or 100 per 100 days...
C-Store discounts that only apply to Free for Gold items...
Just throwing out ideas. I'm not adverse to the concept of Silver rewards, they just shouldn't be things Golds cant or don't already get...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Agreed, especially if it is enacted retroactively to some degree. DCUO and some other F2P mmos have this option as well. An added incentive to spend is always nice. It would be cool if one reward was a raised money limit for that silver account. I always hear about people wanting to do away with the money limit on silvers or provide some purchasable option but a reward system would probably work much better. Maybe a slight increase in the money limit with each amount of zen bought or something.
While the idea of giving away costume packs seems like a good idea, I think providing services first would be better, saving free costume packs for people who spend well over $100 in C-store purchases (yes people like this exist (*raises hand sheepishly* lol)).
*jumps of the bridge*
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Ha Ha this strangely makes me happy
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The way I see it if your silver you get access to the game and can purchase what you want and it's yours. If your gold you get access to a lot of things with your sub that you loose if you go silver but you also get a few perks like your stipend and veteran rewards you can keep even if you turn silver. If your a lifetime subscriber you take a risk that the game may not last long enough to pay for itself so you get a few more perks like a forum title and costume bits and an action figure.
So as things stand they seem balanced to me as you get what you commit to.
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Afraid that I have to disagree with this part.
You get a hundred thousand people all willing to spend six grand each on the game and it will mean a lot to the survival and growth of the game that those people all apparently enjoy (I would hope that they enjoy it if they are willing to spend that kind of money on it).
Conversely you get a hundred thousand people to play a game, contribute to its community, socialize, be helpful, etc, while not paying a dime, and the game will die. Quickly.
He did not say that employees were individually greedy. When speaking about a corporation one is not making comments about any given particular employee of that company.
He also did not say that Cryptic is greedy. Cryptic, as a for profit corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of another for profit, publicly traded corporation, has a duty to make money for its shareholders. That is why it exists.
It is no more greedy for Cryptic to have a goal of making money for its owners than for me to insist on being paid for my own labor by my employer.
Note that Helbjorn referred to Cryptic's goal of making money as a positive thing, as the way it should be for a for profit company. He was not denigrating the company in any way.
You speak of the drive to make a successful MMO coming from the heart. Perhaps so. How many successful MMO's have a creation budget of $0 ?
Did you work for free on the games you mentioned above ?
Did the other developers work for free?
Were the computers, servers, office space, etc all donated for free ?
Simply put an MMO will not exist without money. Period.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Silver vs Gold is purely a matter of two people choosing to pay for their gaming experience in different ways. Its like cash vs check. Neither is in any way, shape, or form a reflection on the individual.
Cryptic, as is their right, have chosen to provide a reward for those who choose to pay for the game in one specific way. This is not substantially different from a magazine publisher offering advantages to those who subscribe rather than buying at the newsstand.
Ultimately Cryptic advertises what is included in a subscription, and some people make a choice to not buy in.
Thats it. A choice of whether or not to pay for veteran rewards. Some have decided yes, others have decided no. Its not as if Cryptic is arbitrarily deciding to limit which players can subscribe.
I personally think that it would be a sound business decision for Cryptic to use the veteran reward incentive to encourage micro-transactions by those players who have chosen to not subscribe, but its their call to make.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Shut up and sub!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
so I started as a silver, converted to gold, blew the credit limit in the first month. That was my holiday pay (Ok I had a problem with the store, I thought I was buying one thing,when in fact it was selling me character slots, that was NOT what I had highlighted)
I am now LTS, I regularly get zen ,usually to either get a costume set, junk bags or just to dump on the Q exchange and watch the buy price drop...(ahh I can hear the screams from here)
There are a lot of people who can't pay for subs but can afford to buy zen. Whether because of work or lack thereof, family, bills etc. Some people simply don't have the access to a payment method.
But I agree with the Token rewards system. A reward system like that will reward those people who can support through purchases of zen.
We need everyone playing, if a simple acct payment linked reward will help more people want to play, I'm all for it.
It may have to be cumulative, so you can collect up to what you need for a token, that way those who can only afford small purchases, I think 500 zen is the lowest amount, don't lose out.
Since the tokens will be when they pay for some zen, they will be being rewarded when they financially support the game, same as rewards for subs are on time subbed.
Since people would be able to collect them to aim for higher rewards(hopefully) rather than getting them in a set order, they would be able to aim for the ones they want.
I use Ultimategamecards for purchases, so I don't know what denominations zen cards come in.
***hmmm sorry that got a bit long. and incoherent in places. welcome to a conversation with me.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Also, a new tier, "copper" "bronze" account would be nice for people who don't spend a dime in the game.
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
No matter what, if subscribers are getting something that is not available to non-subscribers, the non-subs will be unhappy for whatever reasons and call it unfair. "I spent money so I should be treated equally."
However, if the subscribers are not getting something that is not available to non-subscribers, the subs will be unhappy for whatever reasons and call it unfair. "I subscribed so I should get something for that promise."
It's 2 different mentalities completely at odds.
One is arguing for the dollar amount, the other is arguing merit of loyalty.
In the end, there will be no agreement, because even if a point system is put in place non-subs will not have access to the sub benefits, and if they do subs will be unhappy and ask what the point of subbing was.
Here's the other point which Ashen kinda brought up -
No matter the industry there is always a benefit to subscribing over a la carte.
Like every 150 days per reward or 200, as opposed to 100 for gold subscribers. and also they have to spend atleast the equivilant amount for zen as they would if it was a month of gold to have that counter tick 30 days?
Or will someone just claim that will also diminish the value of gold sub too, even if it meant the silver route would take MUCH longer for more of the cost.
Because there's no way of knowing if a sliver account has contributed a single thing to the game for those days.
There's something to be said for more players and the effect that it has on a MMO as a whole. But at least with gold accounts you know that they're sending Cryptic money each month. You can't say the same about sliver accounts.
I'm pretty sure Cryptic/PWE knows which Silver accounts are actually buying Zen and which ones aren't.