I'm pretty sure Cryptic/PWE knows which Silver accounts are actually buying Zen and which ones aren't.
Apparently I missed the part where that poster said they'd have to spend money to buy zen. Which was my point, unless Sliver accounts are buying zen they should never get any sort of vet reward.
Give Slivers a vet reward based on money + time, and I'd be fine with that. That's how they did it in CoX as I understand it. Of course how good of an idea it is to do what CoX did is debatable.
Although I'm not quite sure that I see the point as no matter what Cryptic changes they will make more people unhappy than happy, my personal "solution" would be as thus; ( Yes, I stole some of the ideas from this very thread and made them my own. :biggrin: )
( 1 ) Label each char with the Account Type Icon next to their name.
( 2 ) Have a few more account types.
Bronze -- Free-to-Play
Silver -- Unlocked once $100 worth of Zen has been bought, not traded for with Q. Maybe have a few "tiers" that continue to unlock as more Zen is bought.
Gold -- No change, Subs and Lifers only.
Diamond -- Unlocked by being Gold for a set ammount of time, at least several years, maybe much, much longer. (At the moment, the only Diamonds should be the people who were here from the very beginning and didn't drop their Gold Status.)
( 3 ) Expand the Gold Vet Rewards out for at least five additional years, even if some of the new rewards are placeholders for "comming soon". Make this retroactive of course.
( 4 ) Add a "token reward" system tied to the C-Store, but make the rewards usable by both Silvers and Gold, personally I'd go with the suggestion that the rewards be consumables.
----
And although I'm sure that this will considered "bullying" the OP; *IF* I understand your posts in this thread correctly, you have choosen not to use bank cards, ect, and I "think" maybe even have choosen to limit your contact with the outside world at large, but have spent Zen to play the game. Surely you understand that your situtation is at best a tiny minority, as many if not most of the Silvers could sub if they wished to do so. Heck, if I understood your posts correctly, I'd argue that you could sub if you wanted to, but have choosen not to do so by your own lifestyle.
Although I'm not quite sure that I see the point as no matter what Cryptic changes they will make more people unhappy than happy, my personal "solution" would be as thus; ( Yes, I stole some of the ideas from this very thread and made them my own. :biggrin: )
( 1 ) Label each char with the Account Type Icon next to their name.
( 2 ) Have a few more account types.
Bronze -- Free-to-Play
Silver -- Unlocked once $100 worth of Zen has been bought, not traded for with Q. Maybe have a few "tiers" that continue to unlock as more Zen is bought.
Gold -- No change, Subs and Lifers only.
Diamond -- Unlocked by being Gold for a set ammount of time, at least several years, maybe much, much longer. (At the moment, the only Diamonds should be the people who were here from the very beginning and didn't drop their Gold Status.)
Account labels wouldnt work and I will tell you why.
Nepht would hunt out these bronze players and mock them..Nepht would mock them so hard their ears would go blind.
Not a good thing ear blindness.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So... because everyone else is posting here, i thought i might add my own say, and impart an idea incase others might agree. As i saw many would seem to agree with some token system for it. I thought of a different route. Why not just allow silvers to earn the same vet rewards, but it takes 1.5-2 times longer?
Like every 150 days per reward or 200, as opposed to 100 for gold subscribers. and also they have to spend atleast the equivilant amount for zen as they would if it was a month of gold to have that counter tick 30 days?
Or will someone just claim that will also diminish the value of gold sub too, even if it meant the silver route would take MUCH longer for more of the cost.
Because there's no way of knowing if a sliver account has contributed a single thing to the game for those days.
There's something to be said for more players and the effect that it has on a MMO as a whole. But at least with gold accounts you know that they're sending Cryptic money each month. You can't say the same about sliver accounts.
While i thank you for taking the time to read *some* of my post, and taking time to reply I don't thank you for missing the part where i mention use of some mechanism to tick days for a period of time when a silver member purchases the in game currency with real money. Of course, right NOW they don't have such a method. Which is why it was suggested that such a mechanic be made if this suggestion was to be used. Which is:
Any time a silver player makes a purchase for ZEN, IF it is equal or higher than the amount of what gold is worth, then each day for the next 30 days a counter will tick, adding to their loyalty reward sytem.
Any time a silver player makes a purchase for ZEN, IF it is equal or higher than the amount of what gold is worth, then each day for the next 30 days a counter will tick, adding to their loyalty reward sytem.
Yes I missed that, which I admitted to in a different post.
Perhaps that would simply serve as encouragement for them to unlock Silver Status. :cool:
And the Vet Rewards serve as encouragement for the Silvers to unlock Gold Status by subscribing. The Vet Rewards were around when the game started, before F2P.
For the OP, there is a game that had such a setup for "Veteran Rewards", where for every $15 you earned a token to fill up tiers on a tree; subscribers had a special extra portion of the tree to get special costume unlocks and earned a token each month subscribed as well as any money spent. However, it appears that game is going by the way of the dodo November 30th and its refugees coming here for their superhero game fix. Guess that three tier plan didn't work out for City of Heroes, now did it? I would suggest to the OP to go there, but since it's closing the only accounts you can make there are basically fully free accounts because they shut off all billing.
While i thank you for taking the time to read *some* of my post, and taking time to reply I don't thank you for missing the part where i mention use of some mechanism to tick days for a period of time when a silver member purchases the in game currency with real money. Of course, right NOW they don't have such a method. Which is why it was suggested that such a mechanic be made if this suggestion was to be used. Which is:
Any time a silver player makes a purchase for ZEN, IF it is equal or higher than the amount of what gold is worth, then each day for the next 30 days a counter will tick, adding to their loyalty reward sytem.
Well, it couldn't be based on a flat Zen purchase, because Zen is used for all of PWE's games in some why or another. It would have to track the Zen that is specifically transferred to CO. Additionally, it would have to identify and subtract free Zen received from offers since that Zen was not purchased...
Not saying it couldn't be done, it just wouldn't be as simple as tracking flat Zen purchases.
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
They could just do what City of Heroes did. Grant a month's worth of 'veteran' time for every $15 worth of points spent in the cash shop. Or however they want to work that out. It worked out pretty well over there.
________________________________ @kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
And the Vet Rewards serve as encouragement for the Silvers to unlock Gold Status by subscribing. The Vet Rewards were around when the game started, before F2P.
For the OP, there is a game that had such a setup for "Veteran Rewards", where for every $15 you earned a token to fill up tiers on a tree; subscribers had a special extra portion of the tree to get special costume unlocks and earned a token each month subscribed as well as any money spent. However, it appears that game is going by the way of the dodo November 30th and its refugees coming here for their superhero game fix. Guess that three tier plan didn't work out for City of Heroes, now did it? I would suggest to the OP to go there, but since it's closing the only accounts you can make there are basically fully free accounts because they shut off all billing.
I think it's a bit far-fetched to imply that the rewards system in CoH was one of the reasons that the game is being dropped.
Also, being patronising about CoH will not make their players come here. And if you think that we don't need our cousins from Paragon City, then you are woefully misguided.
Have a go at the OP if you want man, but unfounded comments against CoH are just counter-productive. I, for one, think that they had a good rewards system.
In addition to that it would be kind of a ****ty thing to do to their players.
Think of the promise of "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough," that is kind of intrinsic in many F2P models, and it works because the publisher's don't care who buys the Zen or why, as long as someone does.
Tracking Zen for blah blah now means "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough, but you'll still never get this other **** over here."
"But they're not paying customers!!!!" you say.
"They're sub-human leeching scum-sucking basement-dwelling worthless burdens on a society that would do better without them," you say.
"But nobody cares about their starving family that can't pay for food and the only enjoyment they can squeeze out of their miserable, loathsome and likely filthy lives is an hour or 2 of CO a week, and that new jet is the only glimmer of hope in their otherwise awful existence," you say.
"**** those guys," you say.
And I agree with you 100 million percent.
But the thing is, nobody cares what you think, least of all me.
The fact remains the publisher needs to maintain the already fragile illlusion of free-itudinalness, needs to pad out the population for marketing/social/advertisement/whatever reasons (can't sell tampons to a population you don't have, and massively won't be writing no articles about a ghost town and the publisher that beats them [as often]), and you're ugly.
In addition to that it would be kind of a ****ty thing to do to their players.
Think of the promise of "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough," that is kind of intrinsic in many F2P models, and it works because the publisher's don't care who buys the Zen or why, as long as someone does.
Tracking Zen for blah blah now means "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough, but you'll still never get this other **** over here."
"But they're not paying customers!!!!" you say.
"They're sub-human leeching scum-sucking basement-dwelling worthless burdens on a society that would do better without them," you say.
"But nobody cares about their starving family that can't pay for food and the only enjoyment they can squeeze out of their miserable, loathsome and likely filthy lives is an hour or 2 of CO a week, and that new jet is the only glimmer of hope in their otherwise awful existence," you say.
"**** those guys," you say.
And I agree with you 100 million percent.
But the thing is, nobody cares what you think, least of all me.
The fact remains the publisher needs to maintain the already fragile illlusion of free-itudinalness, needs to pad out the population for marketing/social/advertisement/whatever reasons (can't sell tampons to a population you don't have, and massively won't be writing no articles about a ghost town and the publisher that beats them [as often]), and you're ugly.
I think it's a bit far-fetched to imply that the rewards system in CoH was one of the reasons that the game is being dropped.
Yes and no.
I'd say that blaming the Vet reward system as the reason is a bit far-fetched. But to point at that as being an example of mismanagement of the F2P vs Sub isn't that far out there.
Something caused CoX to be closed down, and it wasn't just a simple case of NCSoft being rotten so-no-so's, they had to have some reason to do so. A capitalistic company doesn't cut out a profitable product without good reason, even if we don't like the reason there is one.
I'm not saying that the CoX management team was doing a bad job. But at the same time it's possible that they were giving away too much to the F2P accounts, and there weren't enough monthly subs to keep the numbers where NCSoft wanted them.
As a general rule of thumb, it's a bad idea to take ideas from a different product that failed. And lets be honest, CoH didn't make it very long as a F2P MMO, it went F2P sometime after CO did, and only make it for a bit over a year. So it's completely fair to say that CoX failed as a F2P MMO, why could be debated, but the why is really the only thing that can be.
I'd say that blaming the Vet reward system as the reason is a bit far-fetched. But to point at that as being an example of mismanagement of the F2P vs Sub isn't that far out there.
Something caused CoX to be closed down, and it wasn't just a simple case of NCSoft being rotten so-no-so's, they had to have some reason to do so. A capitalistic company doesn't cut out a profitable product without good reason, even if we don't like the reason there is one.
I'm not saying that the CoX management team was doing a bad job. But at the same time it's possible that they were giving away too much to the F2P accounts, and there weren't enough monthly subs to keep the numbers where NCSoft wanted them.
As a general rule of thumb, it's a bad idea to take ideas from a different product that failed. And lets be honest, CoH didn't make it very long as a F2P MMO, it went F2P sometime after CO did, and only make it for a bit over a year. So it's completely fair to say that CoX failed as a F2P MMO, why could be debated, but the why is really the only thing that can be.
It's all hypothetical unless you know the real reason, and I have seen a number of opinions on these boards on why CoH is closing down.
"But nobody cares about their starving family that can't pay for food and the only enjoyment they can squeeze out of their miserable, loathsome and likely filthy lives is an hour or 2 of CO a week, and that new jet is the only glimmer of hope in their otherwise awful existence," you say.
"**** those guys," you say.
.
Well if they can't feed there family etc.. do you really think they should be playing co? maybe they should sell their cpu to get some food or go i dont know job searching etc..!!
It's all hypothetical unless you know the real reason, and I have seen a number of opinions on these boards on why CoH is closing down.
Yes that's true. But even without knowing why CoX is shutting down, I can still say that using a game that's been shut down as an example of how to do things is generally a bad idea.
Now this case may or may not be a symptom of the larger issues. But seeing how no one really knows why CoX was shut down, you can't say that it wasn't part of the problem either. As such you can't effectively use CoX and example of how something should be done, because as far as we know, the vet reward system could be a prime example of the larger issue with CoX.
Well if they can't feed there family etc.. do you really think they should be playing co? maybe they should sell their cpu to get some food or go i dont know job searching etc..!!
Yes that's true. But even without knowing why CoX is shutting down, I can still say that using a game that's been shut down as an example of how to do things is generally a bad idea.
I didn't, all I said was that I liked their rewards system.
Now this case may or may not be a symptom of the larger issues. But seeing how no one really knows why CoX was shut down, you can't say that it wasn't part of the problem either.
Once again, I didn't. I said I think it's a bit far-fetched to imply that the rewards system in CoH was one of the reasons that the game is being dropped. Notice that I didn't say that it was or wasn't the reason. I don't write about things that I don't know about in certainties.
As such you can't effectively use CoX and example of how something should be done, because as far as we know, the vet reward system could be a prime example of the larger issue with CoX.
And again, I didn't. I simply said I liked their reward system.
Your opinion may be correct, but I have seen a number of opinions on these boards on why CoH is closing down. Yours is but one of many.
Please don't exaggerate the extent of my comments.
Please don't exaggerate the extent of my comments.
I think you're reading way more into what I'm saying then what's actually there. I'm not putting words in your mouth here, I'm using what you said as a springboard for a larger point.
Personally I think the CoX method could work here. But I'd also say that adopting systems from a failed game may not be wise, regardless of if I like the system or not.
1) I'm not sure that a profitable game that is being pulled from the market for reasons that we do not know can be accurately described as, "failed."
2) Even if COH can be called, "failed," companies often take elements from unsuccessful or failed companies and products for inclusion in their own. Its kind of the norm actually.
1) I'm not sure that a profitable game that is being pulled from the market for reasons that we do not know can be accurately described as, "failed."
2) Even if COH can be called, "failed," companies often take elements from unsuccessful or failed companies and products for inclusion in their own. Its kind of the norm actually.
Agreed. Especially one that lasted 8 years. No MMO that lasts 8 years can be considered a failure.
And the Vet Rewards serve as encouragement for the Silvers to unlock Gold Status by subscribing. The Vet Rewards were around when the game started, before F2P.
I agree, but I believe that part of the problem is that under the current system, there is no negatives involved with being a totally free player, in fact the few times I've seen it brought up at all, everyone claims that they buy Zen. Having your account status show up on your chars might change that (Provided of course that there is a seperate "class" for the Zenners.), as well as truely show whether or not Silvers outnumber Golds, given that there is no way to tell if an AT is Gold or even if a FF is Silver.
Of course, as a disclaimer, I have no probem at all with the Zenners, heck, I tend to believe that as a group they probably spend more cash to Cryptic then the Subs and Lifers, at least in spurts.
Agreed. Especially one that lasted 8 years. No MMO that lasts 8 years can be considered a failure.
Poppycock.
If you've ever seen the WoW forums you know that game is in a constant state of fail (in more ways than one!) and is surely in the process of closing down it's servers.
Blizz hates it's players. The ability to continually screw with them is the only reason it survives. (like Champs!)
1) I'm not sure that a profitable game that is being pulled from the market for reasons that we do not know can be accurately described as, "failed."
Exactly how profitable is it? I doubt very much you actually know that. No one else does, and so, even if was making a profit, that doesn't mean it was enough of a one to justify the cost of keeping it running.
However it was shut down after only a bit more then a year after going F2P, so while CoX as a whole isn't a failed game. I'd say it did fail as a F2P one. Many other games out there have gone F2P and have lasted much longer.
Clearly NCSoft had some reason to shut it down, I seriously doubt they did it simply to spite the CoX playerbase.
2) Even if COH can be called, "failed," companies often take elements from unsuccessful or failed companies and products for inclusion in their own.
Sure, but you have to consider quite carefully what elements you're taking. Take the settlements that caused it to fail in the first place and it's not going to help your product out in the long run.
Agreed. Especially one that lasted 8 years. No MMO that lasts 8 years can be considered a failure.
Again CoX didn't fail so much as it did fail as a F2P MMO. There's a fairly meaningful difference in that.
Exactly how profitable is it? I doubt very much you actually know that. No one else does, and so, even if was making a profit, that doesn't mean it was enough of a one to justify the cost of keeping it running.
We do, actually, someone posted the quarterly reports and whatnot. That's why the the whole "this makes no sense" thing started. Seems it was actually making money where other properties were bleeding out like ****, but they pulled the plug on Paragon.
Edit:
Wow, I can't find any of the things I said, so I could be completely wrong, but ima leave it there just in case somebody knows what I'm talking about.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if vet rewards did the same thing those wizard robes and hammer bracers did, because I have no interest in the vast majority of those costumes.
For those who have been saying CoH didnt make money read this http://thcooke.com/2012/09/07/coh/
Damn game made $10 million a year. Its a number thats all over the internet of late even NCSOFT have said it made money.
Its insane that a company that is badly in the red kills off an mmo that is making them money at the moment.
GW2 will most likely end up being a money maker but it has to recoup its massive development cost first.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
While I do agree that there are some Silver users who spend as much as Gold users, those rewards are for users who are subscribed - I.E., they are a consistent, dependable cashflow for as long as they are Gold status. Consistent, dependable cashflow > periodic impulse-based purchases.
And I'm saying that as a Silver who spends a lot of money. I simply don't like the idea of temporary gains, and that's what Gold status is to me, perks that disappear as soon as I'm done subscribing. I prefer my purchases to stay with the account forever. I'll probably go Lifetime eventually, I just can't justify a lump-sum payment of that nature at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you're coming from. It's just that the Gold rewards are there to encourage people to provide that consistent, dependable subscription-based cashflow.
Exactly how profitable is it? I doubt very much you actually know that. No one else does, and so, even if was making a profit, that doesn't mean it was enough of a one to justify the cost of keeping it running.
However it was shut down after only a bit more then a year after going F2P, so while CoX as a whole isn't a failed game. I'd say it did fail as a F2P one. Many other games out there have gone F2P and have lasted much longer. .
Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim is speculation.
1) I never claimed to know exactly how profitable it was. I did however see a some posts where people picked apart NCSofts financial reports to show that COH was outperforming some of NCSofts games that were not being closed down.
2) Actually you are likely to be mistaken, and when I say likely I mean certainly, about no one knowing.
3) Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim that COH failed as a F2P game is speculation/opinion. You are welcome to your opinion of course, but admitting that you dont know (assuming that you included yourself in the no one knows statement) casts a shadow of doubt over the validity of your claim regarding the game's failure.
Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim is speculation.
Ashen its well known that CoH made money all you need to do is google it all the info is there.
You won the argument before it even began.
Its common knowledge that CoH made 10 million a year end of story.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim is speculation.
1) I never claimed to know exactly how profitable it was. I did however see a some posts where people picked apart NCSofts financial reports to show that COH was outperforming some of NCSofts games that were not being closed down.
2) Actually you are likely to be mistaken, and when I say likely I mean certainly, about no one knowing.
3) Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim that COH failed as a F2P game is speculation/opinion. You are welcome to your opinion of course, but admitting that you dont know (assuming that you included yourself in the no one knows statement) casts a shadow of doubt over the validity of your claim regarding the game's failure.
Not to mention, the game could just be a victim of bad management. After all, look at Star Trek when it got canned. eveyrone loved it, but the guy in charge of the station didn't like it. didn't matter to him if it was very popular, he didn't like it, so it had to go untill finally people convinced em to make the movie again and brought star trek back to life.
Exactly how profitable is it? I doubt very much you actually know that. No one else does, and so, even if was making a profit, that doesn't mean it was enough of a one to justify the cost of keeping it running.
However it was shut down after only a bit more then a year after going F2P, so while CoX as a whole isn't a failed game. I'd say it did fail as a F2P one. Many other games out there have gone F2P and have lasted much longer.
Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim is speculation.
1) I never claimed to know exactly how profitable it was. I did however see a some posts where people picked apart NCSofts financial reports to show that COH was outperforming some of NCSofts games that were not being closed down.
2) Actually you are likely to be mistaken, and when I say likely I mean certainly, about no one knowing.
3) Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim that COH failed as a F2P game is speculation/opinion. You are welcome to your opinion of course, but admitting that you dont know (assuming that you included yourself in the no one knows statement) casts a shadow of doubt over the validity of your claim regarding the game's failure.
Comments
Apparently I missed the part where that poster said they'd have to spend money to buy zen. Which was my point, unless Sliver accounts are buying zen they should never get any sort of vet reward.
Give Slivers a vet reward based on money + time, and I'd be fine with that. That's how they did it in CoX as I understand it. Of course how good of an idea it is to do what CoX did is debatable.
( 1 ) Label each char with the Account Type Icon next to their name.
( 2 ) Have a few more account types.
Bronze -- Free-to-Play
Silver -- Unlocked once $100 worth of Zen has been bought, not traded for with Q. Maybe have a few "tiers" that continue to unlock as more Zen is bought.
Gold -- No change, Subs and Lifers only.
Diamond -- Unlocked by being Gold for a set ammount of time, at least several years, maybe much, much longer. (At the moment, the only Diamonds should be the people who were here from the very beginning and didn't drop their Gold Status.)
( 3 ) Expand the Gold Vet Rewards out for at least five additional years, even if some of the new rewards are placeholders for "comming soon". Make this retroactive of course.
( 4 ) Add a "token reward" system tied to the C-Store, but make the rewards usable by both Silvers and Gold, personally I'd go with the suggestion that the rewards be consumables.
----
And although I'm sure that this will considered "bullying" the OP; *IF* I understand your posts in this thread correctly, you have choosen not to use bank cards, ect, and I "think" maybe even have choosen to limit your contact with the outside world at large, but have spent Zen to play the game. Surely you understand that your situtation is at best a tiny minority, as many if not most of the Silvers could sub if they wished to do so. Heck, if I understood your posts correctly, I'd argue that you could sub if you wanted to, but have choosen not to do so by your own lifestyle.
Example,
Spend up to 1000((over time)) = Hammer Bracers
Spend up to 9000 ((over time))= Avan Costume Set
So on. I mean this be great way for slivers to get costume unlocks that have been in the game for a while. :cool:
Account labels wouldnt work and I will tell you why.
Nepht would hunt out these bronze players and mock them..Nepht would mock them so hard their ears would go blind.
Not a good thing ear blindness.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
While i thank you for taking the time to read *some* of my post, and taking time to reply I don't thank you for missing the part where i mention use of some mechanism to tick days for a period of time when a silver member purchases the in game currency with real money. Of course, right NOW they don't have such a method. Which is why it was suggested that such a mechanic be made if this suggestion was to be used. Which is:
Any time a silver player makes a purchase for ZEN, IF it is equal or higher than the amount of what gold is worth, then each day for the next 30 days a counter will tick, adding to their loyalty reward sytem.
Yes I missed that, which I admitted to in a different post.
And the Vet Rewards serve as encouragement for the Silvers to unlock Gold Status by subscribing. The Vet Rewards were around when the game started, before F2P.
For the OP, there is a game that had such a setup for "Veteran Rewards", where for every $15 you earned a token to fill up tiers on a tree; subscribers had a special extra portion of the tree to get special costume unlocks and earned a token each month subscribed as well as any money spent. However, it appears that game is going by the way of the dodo November 30th and its refugees coming here for their superhero game fix. Guess that three tier plan didn't work out for City of Heroes, now did it? I would suggest to the OP to go there, but since it's closing the only accounts you can make there are basically fully free accounts because they shut off all billing.
Well, it couldn't be based on a flat Zen purchase, because Zen is used for all of PWE's games in some why or another. It would have to track the Zen that is specifically transferred to CO. Additionally, it would have to identify and subtract free Zen received from offers since that Zen was not purchased...
Not saying it couldn't be done, it just wouldn't be as simple as tracking flat Zen purchases.
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
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I think it's a bit far-fetched to imply that the rewards system in CoH was one of the reasons that the game is being dropped.
Also, being patronising about CoH will not make their players come here. And if you think that we don't need our cousins from Paragon City, then you are woefully misguided.
Have a go at the OP if you want man, but unfounded comments against CoH are just counter-productive. I, for one, think that they had a good rewards system.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Think of the promise of "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough," that is kind of intrinsic in many F2P models, and it works because the publisher's don't care who buys the Zen or why, as long as someone does.
Tracking Zen for blah blah now means "you can get all this **** for free if you work/grind hard enough, but you'll still never get this other **** over here."
"But they're not paying customers!!!!" you say.
"They're sub-human leeching scum-sucking basement-dwelling worthless burdens on a society that would do better without them," you say.
"But nobody cares about their starving family that can't pay for food and the only enjoyment they can squeeze out of their miserable, loathsome and likely filthy lives is an hour or 2 of CO a week, and that new jet is the only glimmer of hope in their otherwise awful existence," you say.
"**** those guys," you say.
And I agree with you 100 million percent.
But the thing is, nobody cares what you think, least of all me.
The fact remains the publisher needs to maintain the already fragile illlusion of free-itudinalness, needs to pad out the population for marketing/social/advertisement/whatever reasons (can't sell tampons to a population you don't have, and massively won't be writing no articles about a ghost town and the publisher that beats them [as often]), and you're ugly.
But for reals?
Totally **** those guys.
You are rambling and incomprehensible.
Take your medication and sit in a dark room.
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Yes and no.
I'd say that blaming the Vet reward system as the reason is a bit far-fetched. But to point at that as being an example of mismanagement of the F2P vs Sub isn't that far out there.
Something caused CoX to be closed down, and it wasn't just a simple case of NCSoft being rotten so-no-so's, they had to have some reason to do so. A capitalistic company doesn't cut out a profitable product without good reason, even if we don't like the reason there is one.
I'm not saying that the CoX management team was doing a bad job. But at the same time it's possible that they were giving away too much to the F2P accounts, and there weren't enough monthly subs to keep the numbers where NCSoft wanted them.
As a general rule of thumb, it's a bad idea to take ideas from a different product that failed. And lets be honest, CoH didn't make it very long as a F2P MMO, it went F2P sometime after CO did, and only make it for a bit over a year. So it's completely fair to say that CoX failed as a F2P MMO, why could be debated, but the why is really the only thing that can be.
It's all hypothetical unless you know the real reason, and I have seen a number of opinions on these boards on why CoH is closing down.
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Well if they can't feed there family etc.. do you really think they should be playing co? maybe they should sell their cpu to get some food or go i dont know job searching etc..!!
Yes that's true. But even without knowing why CoX is shutting down, I can still say that using a game that's been shut down as an example of how to do things is generally a bad idea.
Now this case may or may not be a symptom of the larger issues. But seeing how no one really knows why CoX was shut down, you can't say that it wasn't part of the problem either. As such you can't effectively use CoX and example of how something should be done, because as far as we know, the vet reward system could be a prime example of the larger issue with CoX.
Food spoils. CPUs last forever.
It's simple mathconomics.
I didn't, all I said was that I liked their rewards system.
Once again, I didn't. I said I think it's a bit far-fetched to imply that the rewards system in CoH was one of the reasons that the game is being dropped. Notice that I didn't say that it was or wasn't the reason. I don't write about things that I don't know about in certainties.
And again, I didn't. I simply said I liked their reward system.
Your opinion may be correct, but I have seen a number of opinions on these boards on why CoH is closing down. Yours is but one of many.
Please don't exaggerate the extent of my comments.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I think you're reading way more into what I'm saying then what's actually there. I'm not putting words in your mouth here, I'm using what you said as a springboard for a larger point.
Personally I think the CoX method could work here. But I'd also say that adopting systems from a failed game may not be wise, regardless of if I like the system or not.
2) Even if COH can be called, "failed," companies often take elements from unsuccessful or failed companies and products for inclusion in their own. Its kind of the norm actually.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Agreed. Especially one that lasted 8 years. No MMO that lasts 8 years can be considered a failure.
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I agree, but I believe that part of the problem is that under the current system, there is no negatives involved with being a totally free player, in fact the few times I've seen it brought up at all, everyone claims that they buy Zen. Having your account status show up on your chars might change that (Provided of course that there is a seperate "class" for the Zenners.), as well as truely show whether or not Silvers outnumber Golds, given that there is no way to tell if an AT is Gold or even if a FF is Silver.
Of course, as a disclaimer, I have no probem at all with the Zenners, heck, I tend to believe that as a group they probably spend more cash to Cryptic then the Subs and Lifers, at least in spurts.
Poppycock.
If you've ever seen the WoW forums you know that game is in a constant state of fail (in more ways than one!) and is surely in the process of closing down it's servers.
Blizz hates it's players. The ability to continually screw with them is the only reason it survives. (like Champs!)
Exactly how profitable is it? I doubt very much you actually know that. No one else does, and so, even if was making a profit, that doesn't mean it was enough of a one to justify the cost of keeping it running.
However it was shut down after only a bit more then a year after going F2P, so while CoX as a whole isn't a failed game. I'd say it did fail as a F2P one. Many other games out there have gone F2P and have lasted much longer.
Clearly NCSoft had some reason to shut it down, I seriously doubt they did it simply to spite the CoX playerbase.
Sure, but you have to consider quite carefully what elements you're taking. Take the settlements that caused it to fail in the first place and it's not going to help your product out in the long run.
Again CoX didn't fail so much as it did fail as a F2P MMO. There's a fairly meaningful difference in that.
We do, actually, someone posted the quarterly reports and whatnot. That's why the the whole "this makes no sense" thing started. Seems it was actually making money where other properties were bleeding out like ****, but they pulled the plug on Paragon.
Edit:
Wow, I can't find any of the things I said, so I could be completely wrong, but ima leave it there just in case somebody knows what I'm talking about.
Damn game made $10 million a year. Its a number thats all over the internet of late even NCSOFT have said it made money.
Its insane that a company that is badly in the red kills off an mmo that is making them money at the moment.
GW2 will most likely end up being a money maker but it has to recoup its massive development cost first.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And I'm saying that as a Silver who spends a lot of money. I simply don't like the idea of temporary gains, and that's what Gold status is to me, perks that disappear as soon as I'm done subscribing. I prefer my purchases to stay with the account forever. I'll probably go Lifetime eventually, I just can't justify a lump-sum payment of that nature at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you're coming from. It's just that the Gold rewards are there to encourage people to provide that consistent, dependable subscription-based cashflow.
Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim is speculation.
1) I never claimed to know exactly how profitable it was. I did however see a some posts where people picked apart NCSofts financial reports to show that COH was outperforming some of NCSofts games that were not being closed down.
2) Actually you are likely to be mistaken, and when I say likely I mean certainly, about no one knowing.
3) Unless you can accurately answer the same question you put to me, and since you said that no one knows I'd guess that you cannot, your claim that COH failed as a F2P game is speculation/opinion. You are welcome to your opinion of course, but admitting that you dont know (assuming that you included yourself in the no one knows statement) casts a shadow of doubt over the validity of your claim regarding the game's failure.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Ashen its well known that CoH made money all you need to do is google it all the info is there.
You won the argument before it even began.
Its common knowledge that CoH made 10 million a year end of story.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Not to mention, the game could just be a victim of bad management. After all, look at Star Trek when it got canned. eveyrone loved it, but the guy in charge of the station didn't like it. didn't matter to him if it was very popular, he didn't like it, so it had to go untill finally people convinced em to make the movie again and brought star trek back to life.
Well put Ashen
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