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FC.30.20120720a.3 PTS Update
nisdiddums
Posts: 91 Arc User
PTS update FC.30.20120720a.3
This build is scheduled to hit PTS by 7:00pm PST
Greetings!
Thank you for checking out yesterday's build, and for all of your feedback.
We have a new update for you today.
See below for what's changed.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Powers:
-Powers: Sneak: Sneak no longer breaks on power activation. This should prevent some -Powers from breaking sneak prematurely.
-Powers: Shadow Strike: This power has had its damage and energy costs adjusted slightly. This power now properly checks for if you are decloaked or not.
-Powers: Gadgeteering: Boomerang Cone: This power now properly counts as ranged and AoE. This power now properly checks for if you are decloaked or not.
-Powers: Boomerang Throw: This power now properly checks if you are decloaked or not.
-Night Avenger: New powers now have icons.
This build is scheduled to hit PTS by 7:00pm PST
Greetings!
Thank you for checking out yesterday's build, and for all of your feedback.
We have a new update for you today.
See below for what's changed.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Powers:
-Powers: Sneak: Sneak no longer breaks on power activation. This should prevent some -Powers from breaking sneak prematurely.
-Powers: Shadow Strike: This power has had its damage and energy costs adjusted slightly. This power now properly checks for if you are decloaked or not.
-Powers: Gadgeteering: Boomerang Cone: This power now properly counts as ranged and AoE. This power now properly checks for if you are decloaked or not.
-Powers: Boomerang Throw: This power now properly checks if you are decloaked or not.
-Night Avenger: New powers now have icons.
Post edited by nisdiddums on
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Comments
Thanks for the improvements and fixes. Sneak looks like it'll be in great.
Haven't had a chance to test yet, but based on the nerf falling damage took, and the fact that Might was probably the most adversely effected in the forms revamp (due to Enrage/Aggressor)... does a 70% bonus there even put it back on par with anywhere near where it used to be?
Keep in mind those bonuses were only applied to 5 powers out of the entire Brick set when there are a couple more that could benefit from it (read: Annilihate). And let's face it, ramp-up buff or not, who would ever pick Mighty Kick ever (other than thematics)? It also doesn't address the underlying issue with Brick (the damage loss), Defiance still needs its Enrage synergy back (now more than ever), and this doesn't affect non-Knock Brick powers (the Brick combos, Shockwave, Iron Cyclone/Lariat etc.).
That being said, I would gladly exchange the damage ramp-up for Brick's base damage being restored.
However, Brick isn't the focus of these patch pushes, Night Avenger is. I rather Cryptic spend as much time on balancing this and making it viable, otherwise we would just end up with another broken crapset.
The proposal: remove Rush from all Dragon abilities and place the Rush buff on all melee forms (this includes Enrage/Aspect of the Bestial). Have it trigger off a fully charged melee attack and the energy return scale off of how many stacks of your form you have. This will allow much more diversity to builds and give Might a much needed way of getting energy back without having to take Defiance/Unstoppable.
While I agree a lot on the "lets remove the energy return from dragon forms" that makes me scratch my head and say "why would I pick a dragon ability?" I know on my single blade, I just stick to reaper's caress and reaper's embrace combo. This maybe would suggest a revamp on the functionality of all dragon skills as well.
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The Rush energy gain is SO powerful that once you've done it once, you can keep spamming a fully charged Dragon move over and over and over again and never run out of End.
How is this weak again?
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Actually this isn't a bad idea, Rush would technically stay on Dragon Powers this way, since they are all melee charges, and it gives rush to all other melee charges, this helps Bestial, melee Brick, TK Blades, and all the nondragon MA charges (Such as BCF :biggrin:) Also it shuts every up who complains "Nerf Dragon powers". Dragon's Wrath/Dragon's Caw/Dragon's Uppercut wouldn't need any adjustments with this change, they'd be perfectly fine. Dragon's Bite has always needed a buffed though, in my opinion, so if it doesn't get one if this change goes through (It should STACK a bleed along with refreshing) I'd be pretty pissed. Dragon Kick would possibly appeciate a buff aswell, maybe an extend to its stun duration.
EDIT: However, I will say, Rush should stick to the MA forms only, probably better to give Aspect of the Bestial/Enrage a new mechanic, Really this request is aestetic, so you know.
EDIT2: Oh Not sure if this is accurate, but rush scaling on Dex? Well, then Enrage/Aspect should get a "Strength scaling Rush" If thats true (Not sure the accuracy of that, however)
How I understand it, its not actually removing the energy return. Its giving said energy return to all (meaning Dragon powers will have rush still, because they are melee charges) melee charges. Which really opens up a lot more builds for melee players. Melee needs a buff, this is actually a decent start. Some Dragon powers such as Dragon Bite will definately need a buff since they will be completely useless (oh wait, Dragon's Bite is already useless).
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Oh yeah I know Kaiserin meant not removing the energy return... its not an issue for me at all. What it has me wondering its... if the dragon moves won't give energy by themselves, what would be their role within the power set?? If you straight buff their damage they will just end up being more powerful than the main single target move, hence... same result.
For example:
Reaper's Caress -> Reaper's Embrace... that's my actual rotation in single target at the moment. If Dragon's Bite damage got to the point that Dragon's Bite > Reaper's Caress.... well all I would end up doing its just switching to Dragon's Bite and not using Embrace anymore.
Do you get my point? By removing the energy from the dragon moves... on most cases (not all) you remove their reason d' etre. That's why I meant that it would need a revamp of the dragon powers... give them a reason to be on my power bar, and not overlap with my existing ones.....
For example:
If they gave Dragon's Bite the capability to debuff my targets resistance... or maybe double the number of bleed stacks. Then it wouldn't overlap anymore and I would do Reaper's Caress -> Dragon's Bite -> Reaper's Embrace as my rotation.
This is what I meant with a revamp... and honestly I think this sort of gets out of the scope of this set of updates.... but who knows.
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This is really only the problem with Dragon's Bite, and actually the Dragon powers would not have any effect from this change, Dragon powers rely on focus for Rush, with the change, all melee charges would rely on their form for their rush.
EDIT: Dragon's Bite has no reason to be on anyone's powerbar :P But really, it should stack bleeds with its refresh, hey if it doubled bleeds stacks (Max 5) Then I would jump for joy. Dragon's Bite needs to, at minimal, Stack a bleed when it refreshes. (It should also count its damage all in one hit)
So Devs....about PTS...is it coming up yet? You had all night
O...kay if this is a problem of Dragon's Bite overlapping with Reaper's Embrace... tell me, in which case as a heavy claw user, with the change proposed, I would use Dragon's Claws over Tiger's Bite or viceversa?? and don't tell me its the rush buff (15% cheaper powers) because it falls hard with DRs of cost reduction.
I see them overlapping there as well...
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I see Tiger's Bite and Dragon's Claw overlapping on a different reason, well, Dragon's Claw can outDPS Tiger's Bite, Tiger's Bite really needs a few buffs, not just a base damage increase, but maybe not consume shredded, just get a straight benefit, then I have a point in taking Rend and Tear because consuming is no longer making refreshing obsolete. I could see a combo where it goes Viper's Fangs -> Tiger's Bite -> Rend and Tear (when Shredded needs refresh)
To me, Dragon's Claw feels like it should be the Claws alternate route, no setup but lower damage overall, Tiger's Bite should hit significantly harder.
Mmhhmm lol... I think you somehow agree with me that if they remove the energy gain from dragon powers to give it to the whole power set.... the Dragon Powers would need to be revamped as well.
The Dragon powers (some, not all) their sole reason of existence its to grant rush... they are rotation fodder. You take that away, and they turn into a lower (greater in dragon's claw for instance) version of a single target power that already exists on the power set.
If this change took place (and honestly I like it, I am a fan of it) some Dragon Powers would need to have "that" something extra so you want to use them along with your rotation.
I was letting out the example of Dragon's Bite doubling the bleeds on the target, as you said well to a max of 5, so it can be part of a single blade rotation.
Maybe on the case of Dragon's Claw, add a buff that grants 20-30% (just throwing a random number here) severity or crit on your next melee, so that way you could go Viper's Fangs -> Dragon's Claw -> Tiger's Bite.
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Its not a bad idea, though, it would need to come with Tiger's Bite buffs first, then see if that boost is needed :P (I could see it being a 1 point advantage, tack 15% off of Dragon's Caw self severity boost and give it to your next melee attack)
Yups... they need to balance this babe so Tiger's Bite > Dragon's Claw.... then this idea of rotation would make sense (and maybe make rend and tear an AoE cone as I think you said... get rid of the nonsense of refreshing shredded).
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Refreshing shredded would only make sense if Shredded wasn't consumed, Viper's Fangs technically does more than refresh shredded, it extends the duration, Rend and Tear is infact weaker than Viper's Fangs, R&T is completely obsoleted by that alone. Make R&T a Cone, then it has the versatility for situational use with Claws. and then, make Tiger's Bite not consume Shredded (much similar to the Unleashed Rage change so it no longer consumed Enrage) then Refreshing mechanic becomes important. Rend and Tear would have a use. In my opinion, all of this needs to happen with Claws, R&T should become a Cone, keep its refresh, and Tiger's Bite shouldn't consume Shredded, it should just get the bonus.
Devs...PTS, why is it not up yet?
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I agree here mostly, only Dragon's Bite, the refresh is obsoleted by the rupture (As I mentioned with Claw powers, R&T, VF, and TB) It should stack a bleed with its refresh (Its energy cost should go down too, I think. Its the most costly Dragon power, next to Dragon Kick.) But for other powers, Wrath, Claw, Uppercut, namely, they are perfectly fine where they are for the most part, and where they would be with these changes.
For a bit more indepth, with Dual Blades, the only ST other than wrath is Sword Harvest, its relatively embarassing, and its lower tier aswell, DW will always outshine it, DW acts (as of now and as it will be if this change happened) acts as the energy feed for Sword Cyclone/EotS
For Single Blade, Dragon's Bite is supposed to feed Reapers Embrace energy, however the energy cost is so high, you might aswell just use Reapers Embrace instead for the extra damage. (If this change happened, now more than every, DB energy cost needs to drop and it needs to stack stacking bleeds)
For Unarmed its a bit different, Dragon's Uppercut is Tier 3, so it seems obviously intended to be the ideal hitter. However it could act as an energy feed for BCF/100 hands, its not recommended. Dragon's Kick acts more of a feed for those powers as it even sets up with a stun. with the change DK might need a boost to its stun, maybe damage and energy cost adjustment, nothing much though. DU wouldn't need anything, other than maybe energy/damage adjusting, but little or none.
This is not high, its intended, note the cooldown is 90 base and you are using an offensive passive, and the power requires sneak to get those numbers (Also take note, the numbers don't eccentricly scale with the boost, gear yourself and its not comparatively higher)
Huzzah! PTS is finally up.
Bug: PBAoEs/Targetless attacks do not break sneak when not dealing damage.
I'm a Brick, who strikes hard(just damage),
not a ninja who strikes true(crit)
Middle ground here: *NEW* Power: <Make up whatever name you want>: Form that drastically boosts base damage, but cannot crit.
The issue is, Brou, you want to boost your base damage because you have the mentality "Brick hits hard" But the mechanics don't prevent someone from taking that big multiplier and applying crit to it, then you have a serious issue, it becomes OP. Then maybe the solution for Brick users is to get this kind of form, an alternate to Enrage.
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hm, i like that thought +1 for that motion
I'm on a roll here's a new idea *NEW* Power: Iron Wall Defense: form that drastically boosts resistance, but cannot dodge. Brick users happy?
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I've noticed this, its an inconsistent bug, decloak seems to delay when applying, decloak doesn't take effect when taking fall damage out of combat (Like if you jump really high and take fall damage from that) I think that is intended though. Overall the bug doesn't happen too often, mostly when testing against dummies.
To be honest I don't understand the reasoning behind the "permanent toggle" idea of Sneak... I guess its useful for characters with lots of charged powers.
As the way I intend to use it? well... I prefer to turn it on and off manually to control when I want to use the sneak damage spike. So... it works for me the way it is, just fix the bug I mentioned the in the first paragraph.
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Edit: Eeeeek... 40k as melee role lol
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It needs a least a passive, I mean by now...
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Take into account it hs a charge time now, the cooldown, the sneak requirement, it sounds its in the right range, really, its Single Target boss killer, thats the idea, numbers might need to be tweaked up or down a little, but this is the right area.
Might used to be hooked up this way that you would not get the most out of enrage and Defiance without taking STR and CON, moving you away from point allocation in DEX/EGO/Crit rate. Thus, bricks almost never crit, or they would crit often and have poor enrage damage boost. and a balance was struck.
but that was not the point I was addressing. I was addressing "just stack crit and put up with the loss"
I was doing 11k cold with a lvl21 toon. One shotted Freon in SL
Also boomerang throw is a bit OP. When in stealth and on full charge I hit up to 5 MOBs for 2k to 3k each at 100 ft range :biggrin:
Crit balances the loss, which I see the problem there, but since nothing prevents someone from boosting base damage and crit, this is kinda what happened. Though hey, Forum thread about making a new form that prevents crit but boosts base damage? Who's in? (Or! Make it not a form, boosting base damage but prevents crits, so it works with Enrage)
Bug: Dealing damage, receiving damage, or healing does not activate "Decloaked" instead it breaks Sneak, which immediately reapplies. Decloaked DOES apply when interacting with objects, however.
I think I will wait to see what G_C does, being that there are power changes to might taking place on PTS. Another forum thread will not be necessary.
It just feels like a "band-aid" fix in a way though.
Bug: NPC interaction. The "talk bubbles" that appear over NPC's heads do not line up with the actual text making it hard to read.
Bug #2: Quest: Thick as Thieves. Even with all objectives fulfilled, Defender is not reflecting the completed status of the quest following the cut-scene with Hi-Pan and the various gangs in the final room. This makes the quest impossible to turn in.
That's before even taking crits or secondary effects into account.
Add on that knockback is a horrible secondary effect for melee powers, which makes stuff like Haymaker, Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp even worse for the current metagame.
This isn't just a problem when comparing it to MA, either.
TK gets to pay for its full spike by, basically, storing charge time in increments (building Ego Leech stacks), then paying for the rest of the charge when you initiate the attack.
Bestial (ok, so Massacre...Frenzy needs love but it's not horrid) is more in line with MA activation/charge times, but it's helped by a synergistic energy unlock and a far better secondary effect in knockdown.
The other big melee sets/hits are maintains. With the exception of Cleave, Heavy Weapons has sort of the same problem as Might, but it doesn't have as much of the charge-time discrepancy and Cleave's good enough to cover up most issues it has. (Not saying that's a good thing, necessarily...)
I'd argue the issue isn't making a Str character with Might attacks equal to a Dex character with MA attacks, but making a Str character with Might attacks equal to a Str character with MA attacks, or a Dex Might equal to a Dex MA (assuming appropriate Enrage/Focus use).
The prevalence of ways to boost crit chance means that, for all intents and purposes (thematics aside), they have to be assumed to be universal. While I don't necessarily like that, I can mentally refluff them as "solid hits" and "glancing blows" and sorta be okay with it.
Even without taking superstats into account though, Might has issues with its damage that are related to the usability of its powers. The greater boost on knock-immunes scaling with charge is, I think, an attempt to address that.
I think a more appropriate fix would be some sort of Might-attack-specific advantage that boosts activation/charge time specifically (and only) for Might attacks. I'd reduce knock distance to pay for it in the powers budget, if necessary. And if it's under budget still, I'd suggest a slight (maybe 5%) overall damage boost to combine with this.
That may not happen, but it would give Might a buff to bring it more up to par with the other melee sets, without letting that buff be cherry-picked onto other things.
And I'm pushing for this over Telepathy fixes because:
1. Might (and to a lesser extent the rest of Brick) was broken recently
2. People still actually consider Might/HW working sets, and there are people that actually try to use them.
Telepathy needs a full-on set pass coupled with something on the scale of the original pet pass to address its mostly-unique mechanics, and I don't foresee that happening any time soon. So may as well push for what's more likely to be fixable.
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As to Kaiserin's post of Isometry's thread, actually the overall Idea isn't bad, the issue is more on the lines of DR. its this nasty thing that messes crap up, and basically, we ideally would want to refine damage to be the equivalents of our current system, to that one (big numbers I could see, real fast) and then we'd have to readjust from there. Also, mechanical difference between Avoidance and resistance poses a problem.
The idea isn't bad, but I don't think cryptic would commit to that kind of rework.
1. Fixes to the Sneak bugs.
2. improvements to MA Claws, specifically Rend and Tear and Tiger's Bite.
3. Improvements to Might/Brick, I recommend Sage's suggestions.
Actually.... there was a patch a few moments ago and it fixed decloak. Now.... I am quite confused about Sneak more than ever.
If it is working as intended (and by reading the description I think it is) decloak won't go away unless you spend 4 seconds without doing anything.
But... here comes the big but... if you turn off the toggle, you can keep attacking, and after the 4 seconds, you can turn on the toggle for another spike.
So... can anyone tell me, what was the whole purpose of the thing being a permanent toggle? I just don't see it... its more beneficial to just toggle it off and on every 4 or so seconds.
Edit: I guess the only benefit I see, its for regular farming... saves you the pain of turning off and on sneak manually, its really convenient this way.
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I wouldn't expect major changes to might until the current prioritys relevant to Nighthalk are complete. Sounds like detoggling sneak should put it on a cooldown.
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Yeah that's exactly the feeling I get of how the power should be.
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