The BBC report from E3 today was saying about how 'Battle Royale' PvP games are all the rage at the moment. This peaked my interest a bit, 'cos I just happened to have dipped my toe into Champions Online's PvP again yesterday... it wasn't brilliant.
Now, I was playing my level 40 Marksman AT, who does pretty well solo and in most group content. The only hero games queue which was popping was Unlimited BASH - Westside. Someone was calling in Zone chat for people to queue so, not having much else pressing that needed to be done, I thought 'why not?'. I grabbed the first couple of missions from the hero games promoter (thinking that I may as well while I was at it) and headed on in. The queue was popping in about 5 minutes. I hadn't PvPed in this game since the early days of hero games, way back when.
The gulf between my toon and the others was quickly apparent. The 6,000 health of my 'glass cannon' was less than half that of even the weakest of the others. I was the only one playing a toon without acrobatics/athletics or superspeed (my Marksman packs flight and tunneling - both of which help out when trying to quickly solo PvE content). Everyone (or, at least, enough people) had 'nailed to the ground' so my flight was nigh useless (although this one I'd expected, as even 'back in the day' NTTG was considered a requirement for PvP builds). The biggest shock, to me, was how little damage I inflicted when I attacked - attacks that regularly hit supervillains for around 1,000 damage a pulse were struggling to inflict more than 100-200 damage. Everyone apart from me had reliable self-heals, so even if I whittled anyone's health down it just popped back up again. Anyone who targeted me hit me with the good ol' stun / burst of damage combo which (being an AT without any real defences) face-planted me every time. In short, it was a frustrating experience.
The thing is, the others in the matches were actually pretty balanced against each other - it was non-PvPer, AT, me that was the odd toon out. I died a lot, of course, but if anything the others were going out of their way to not kill my toon - to the point of one guy requesting politely that I stopped attacking, as it was annoying enough that he was forced to target me when I did (I suspect it was the AoE root he was referring to). Of course, just watching evenly matched PvPers beat on each other for a long time isn't something that's overly interesting to me (and something I can do standing around Ren Centre watching random duels). Overall I felt like an intruder into an aspect of the game I shouldn't be attempting. My assumption is that, if they hadn't needed the numbers to get the queue to pop, those guys wouldn't have even been requesting people in zone chat.
None of the above was the fault of the PvPers: they seemed to be having fun, and weren't singling me out to 'bully' me or anything (even though that would have been a much better tactic if they'd wanted to win quickly) - if anything, they seemed much more interested in fighting each other and keeping it going for as long as possible.
Now, as far as I can tell, the architecture for me, and those playing similar toons, to have a better PvP experience is there - there are AT-specific queues, there are matches which aren't just free-for-alls. It's just that the other PvP queues don't pop. There just aren't the numbers needed. Acclaim seems to accumulate fast (from zero to over 40,000 in just three matches) so, in theory, it could be the fastest way to acquire Heroic gear these days, so there is some motivation (beyond luchadore costumes and action figures) to play hero games. So what's lacking?
If I had to guess I'd say it's visibility. Back in the day, when hero games first started, everyone had a go (there was a lot less to do back then...). These days, compared with Alerts, the hero games queues are hidden. Compared with open missions and cosmics you can just witness when out and about hero games are hidden. Hero games are like some of the less-well-known 'social' areas dotted about - you walk into one and any 'regulars' look at you like you have two heads - hero games have evolved into something for a select few, not by anyone's choice, just by the 'natural selection' of the game.
Maybe if there was a rotating hero games match, with a graphic, up by the alerts (in a similar manner to the rotating custom alerts or rampages) people would be more inclined to dip their toes in? Maybe an event, where a special type of hero games match is played out in an arena in the middle of Ren Centre (cage match anyone?) which can be publicly viewed as it goes on would get people interested (and give those who've already earned their acclaim-based rewards an excuse to parade around in their luchadore costumes and championship belts)? Maybe Champions Online could follow some of the recent 'Battle Royale' style games and introduce special 'victory emotes' which automatically play when you defeat a foe in hero games - perhaps along with related automated 'smack talk' messages coming across screen (in the 'X has opened a lockbox, woo!' style, but just for the match you're in or watching) calling out victor and victim when a participant is defeated? Basically just stuff to make hero games a more obvious and integrated part of the overall game - stuff to get the numbers of participants up which should, in theory, mitigate some of the 'PvPers Vs the rest of the game' rut the hero games seem to have fallen into. Anyway, that's just my proverbial two cents.
> @pr0fp0tts said: > ...Anyway, that's just my proverbial two cents.
Awesome post and refreshing to hear an unbiased opinion. From an AT, even! If you ever unlock a freeform character, you will be able to compete like those other weirdos. You make me want to resub, btw. That's why it's so "awesome."
I very much enjoyed just watching people fight it out and at times, altho I was as neutral as possible generally (sometimes you just have to make a "fool" rage tho.) Unfortunately for BASH, specifically, it is the perfect HG game to gang up on "hated" targets. That forced me into very specific, niche' specs.
Other Hero Games are much more appealing, but likely still suffer from a very old bug that kicks people out of the queue pop, making for uneven matches. UTC was always a favorite of mine. It has the best potential for at least a 4v4, or 5v5 team based PvP match. Just team up with your mates and queue up as a team. KoTH/King of the Hill is similar as it is team-based regarding queueing, and is also very fun for tank specs.
Stronghold is a very fun team-based PvPvE HG mode and so is ZA/Zombie Apocalypse. ZA also has the best title and belt costume unlocks.
I digress. Try contacting the devs personally with your ideas. They may appreciate it much like I have.
Nothing would get me interested in PVP. Absoltely no interest in it at all. I even prefer to solo OVs than be involved in the PVP aspect.
Would you mind sharing why that is?
My first online game was Ultima Online and I got into it because of the crafting, I joined it back around 1998 before there was Trammel (PvE) and it was open world PvP. If you left the guard zones, you had a chance to die, and I can remember running between cities carrying/wearing nothing because if they kill you they could loot you and BTW they would cut your body up, and lock down your head in their houses and it would say "the Head of". So here I am as a Blacksmith with very little in combat skills getting nuked by PvP'ers
SO this is what started my dislike for PvP, I then tried WoW more of the same but I did try PvP there and it just left a bad taste in my mouth, and the grief that SOME PvP'ers give you when they win just really turned me off. So now when I look at online games the first thing I look at is the PvP forced, if it is I do not play that game.
And I agree the PvP should be part of games, BUT not forced or open world PvP - each player should be able to choose how they want to play this game or any game.
So for me,starting out it was the attitude from some PvP'ers, and now as I am getting closer to 60yrs old and close to 20yrs online gaming time, I have notice I am not as fast on the keyboard as I was.
My first experience in PVP was World of Warcraft's various pvp games. I remember grinding the hell out of them because they were the only way to get the gear I wanted without dumb luck... or being forced the join a guild and rebuild my character into some cookie cutter build that had been decided was the only build they would permit.
Initially it wasn't bad, even fun then came the griefers and haters... I soon realized that I wasn't having any more fun. It didn't matter if I was winning I wasn't enjoy the game anymore. I ended up walking away.
Over the years I've played a few other games and now a days I don't see any reason to even bother with pvp, I rarely enjoy the experience as I end up seeing or hearing, which is the very reason I refuse to use the voip features of the few games I still play online, all the griefers and haters in the game.
I have to deal with enough grief and hate in my daily life. I don't need to deal with yet more while I'm trying to relax and generally unwind. As such I don't bother playing games with require pvp and I'm rapidly growing agitated with the mechanics of the blood moon event... which has a number of pvp based quests...
Just gonna state those facts for all delusional people here who think good sportsmanship and fairness (the mythical balanced game that humans are never capable of reaching) is what can save pvp:
1.We have MOBA class games, where community is beyond bitter and moronic.
2.Balance there is also non-existent, because heroes with which you can literally do -5 solo nonstop, leading to almost every game being a win, exist. as long as you are smart player of course.
3.And now guess what, all MOBA's ARE SUPER POPULAR.
Now please try to say anything about good sportsmanship and balance being main things that attract pvp'ers again please. Come on, makes us laugh with your ignorance.
This guy has zero clue about MOBAs.
1.There are plenty of friendly people who play those games. There are some huge jerks that play this one, btw.
2. Balance is a HUGE issue in all MOBAS. Go to any moba forum, and 75-90% of posts are about game balance, power balance, item balance, or hero balance. However, MOBAS are balanced as a team vs team game. Some characters (called carries) can indeed 1v5, if they do really well in the early game. But, that power spike is usually delayed, and those same heroes can be shut down hard in the early game.
3. And the popular MOBAs have big dev teams that constantly tweak the balance, and make small changes to try and keep the game feeling fresh.
Was just reading this thread for the lols, but this hurt my brain too much to let is slide on by.
Well no, they don't really hurt larger games because consistently losing players due to a jerky player base isn't going to cause a large game to flounder because a large player base has mechanisms that ensure continued growth to replace the losses - advertising and word of mouth primarily, both of which are multiplicative with the size of the player base. i.e. larger playerbase leads to bigger advertising budget, which leads to more growth which leads to larger budget.. etc. Word of mouth works better when your game has a large active community because that's attractive to people, which leads to more growth, which makes word of mouth work even better, which leads to etc... That's why LoL has a notorious reputation for having a disgustingly toxic community, but doesn't suffer for it because their growth easily outpaces their losses.
Smaller games with toxic pvp communities like ours have barely any advertising, and word of mouth is hampered by the fact that it's much harder to convince people to get interested in a game that isn't very active and popular, so you end up seeing player growth get outpaced by player losses much more easily. This leads to a stagnating pvp player base which leads to even more losses because "I'm always fighting the same people and it's boring" at which point the dam breaks and here we are.
Well no, they don't really hurt larger games because consistently losing players due to a jerky player base isn't going to cause a large game to flounder because a large player base has mechanisms that ensure continued growth to replace the losses - advertising and word of mouth primarily, both of which are multiplicative with the size of the player base. i.e. larger playerbase leads to bigger advertising budget, which leads to more growth which leads to larger budget.. etc. Word of mouth works better when your game has a large active community because that's attractive to people, which leads to more growth, which makes word of mouth work even better, which leads to etc... That's why LoL has a notorious reputation for having a disgustingly toxic community, but doesn't suffer for it because their growth easily outpaces their losses.
Smaller games with toxic pvp communities like ours have barely any advertising, and word of mouth is hampered by the fact that it's much harder to convince people to get interested in a game that isn't very active and popular, so you end up seeing player growth get outpaced by player losses much more easily. This leads to a stagnating pvp player base which leads to even more losses because "I'm always fighting the same people and it's boring" at which point the dam breaks and here we are.
I think I should of explain my statement a little more, Toxic Players hurt the game as a whole (IMO) not just PvP. In my 20yrs of online gaming I "met" so many players who get their ego stroked by being the "Toxic" person in game since most of them (again IMO) cannot be that way in real life, because they would get their teeth handed to them.
To me this is just a game, but for some that I have met (like World of Warships i.e.) it becomes their whole reason of being, and they become the "expert" in the game, who flame anyone who does not play "their" game the "right way". In the fore mention game I have see in chat (PvP and PvE), players tell players they should drop dead because "they cost them the match".
And this was one of the minor thing I saw, so for me it is one of the reasons that I have all but stopped playing WoWs. And it is one of the reasons I really do not care for PvP, because in my experience this is where I have met a lot of Toxic players. Not all, I have also met really good PvP players would not berate you because you lost to them and some would even give you tips on how to improve.
I can think of one who always stands out in my memories - the Character's was Ox, I met "him" in Ultima Online when the game was still open world PvP. He did not attack you with a gang of Guild Mates, or friends. If your character was set up as a craftsman he would "rob" you instead by asking for half of your money. If you refused or fought it was game on!
And he would go after PvP Gangs, ones that would brag how strong they was, by himself. Once he got to know you, and knew you was not into PvP he would leave you alone. See for him PvP was about the challenge, not about how many heads he could take.
But for some PvP players now it is not about a challenge it is only bragging rights. And @spinnytop I am not disagreeing with your statement, you have way more experience in CO than I do, this is just my opinion.
Well, that sounds you're just saying why you personally stopped playing WoW. Of course, we can see that WoW still has a healthy pvp population, even though I remember people over a decade ago confidently declaring that "pvp is dying". In TERA people have been saying PvP was dying or dead since the day I started playing, and it never actually did.
I agree with you that all that stuff you mentioned sounds really annoying, of course I'd be lying if I wasn't salty and underhanded when it comes to PvP myself. My method of playing BASH was teleporting around and lurking until I had an opportunity to blow up some people who were fighting each other, then run away, and you better believe if I lose at UTC I be makin' a stink about it! ...only UTC for some reason tho, weird. Also duels. I used to get really salty about duels. Looking back I'm not sure why u3u
I suspect toxicity does hurt MOBAs alot. I know quite a few people who won't play them, or stopped playing them due to crappy player interactions. Are the big mobas large enough to absorb that loss... yah, they are... until they aren't.
The thing about toxic people is that they tend to be pretty terrible at any challenging game. Blaming other people for your losses and flaming them, is not a great way to target your own issues, and improve. So, toxicity tends to be worst for entry-level players of these games (which must be terrible for new player retention). But, once you endure that initial toxic hazing, a level-headed person can leave the majority of those folks in the dust.
I don't think this holds true for CO because some of the most die-hard PVPers seem to be the most toxic players one could encounter. Maybe because everyone who wasn't strangely desperate stopped any attempt at serious pvp long ago. I don't know though, just idle speculation.
Just gonna state those facts for all delusional people here who think good sportsmanship and fairness (the mythical balanced game that humans are never capable of reaching) is what can save pvp:
1.We have MOBA class games, where community is beyond bitter and moronic.
2.Balance there is also non-existent, because heroes with which you can literally do -5 solo nonstop, leading to almost every game being a win, exist. as long as you are smart player of course.
3.And now guess what, all MOBA's ARE SUPER POPULAR.
Now please try to say anything about good sportsmanship and balance being main things that attract pvp'ers again please. Come on, makes us laugh with your ignorance.
This guy has zero clue about MOBAs.
1.There are plenty of friendly people who play those games. There are some huge jerks that play this one, btw.
2. Balance is a HUGE issue in all MOBAS. Go to any moba forum, and 75-90% of posts are about game balance, power balance, item balance, or hero balance. However, MOBAS are balanced as a team vs team game. Some characters (called carries) can indeed 1v5, if they do really well in the early game. But, that power spike is usually delayed, and those same heroes can be shut down hard in the early game.
3. And the popular MOBAs have big dev teams that constantly tweak the balance, and make small changes to try and keep the game feeling fresh.
Was just reading this thread for the lols, but this hurt my brain too much to let is slide on by.
xD I played DotA for 10+ years competitively and was in a top 2 world-class professional team, definitely I have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about mobas, hahahaha.
1.There are no absolutes in this universe so thanks captain obvious, what could we do without you?
2.If you know concepts like *diversity* and *balance* you would know that they are exclusive, all games lately have crazy diversity, meaning balance is simply impossible without quantum-computer type brains to account for all possibilities.
And guess what, if you have an intelligence above typical hairless ape level, u can easily find heroes that CANT be stopped and destroy everything from beginning to the end.
3.Doesnt change my point, they are still super popular while being imbalanced, you said absolutely nothing to disprove that.
It was noticable that you were reading it for lolz, you clearly dont have intelligence to respect and analyze the words of the posters whom you know nothing about. Just get the **** out from here pathetic clown, stop embarassing yourself with your own stupid posts.
I suspect toxicity does hurt MOBAs alot. I know quite a few people who won't play them, or stopped playing them due to crappy player interactions. Are the big mobas large enough to absorb that loss... yah, they are... until they aren't.
The thing about toxic people is that they tend to be pretty terrible at any challenging game. Blaming other people for your losses and flaming them, is not a great way to target your own issues, and improve. So, toxicity tends to be worst for entry-level players of these games (which must be terrible for new player retention). But, once you endure that initial toxic hazing, a level-headed person can leave the majority of those folks in the dust.
I don't think this holds true for CO because some of the most die-hard PVPers seem to be the most toxic players one could encounter. Maybe because everyone who wasn't strangely desperate stopped any attempt at serious pvp long ago. I don't know though, just idle speculation.
Hahahah so much stupidity in this post again xD
1. https://www.lol-smurfs.com/blog/is-league-of-legends-dying/ Swallow this you pathetic clown.
2. Simply not true, some people who flame, me for example. are good and flame the bad one's if they drag us down, cos we realize that you cant win every game in a 5v5 setting where you have limits on what you can do.
3. You have just disproven your own paragraph 2, and no, trolling here is done for a reason that you can't even comprehend with your tiny brain.
Post edited by shiningdarkness#0716 on
"If life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me"
Just shooting from the hip, I'm gonna say you're that guy that defines himself by his intelligence... puts on blinders to pretend he is smarter than he is... enters full-bore 24-7 delusion of grandeur.
Just shooting from the hip, I'm gonna say you're that guy that defines himself by his intelligence... puts on blinders to pretend he is smarter than he is... enters full-bore 24-7 delusion of grandeur.
1. I define myself by many more things than just intelligence.
2. I know perfectly well my level of intelligence, and it's a fact that its greater than yours, almost anyone can see it after simply examining your irrational posts. No delusions of grandeur needed for this at all.
"If life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me"
Your posts aren't obviously intelligent, they are obviously arrogant.
You think you know who you are, but self-awareness and big egos don't mix.
You are a just writing us a story... and its a sloppily written power fantasy. "I'm a big shining dawk dwagon! And soooooo smart!"
Just.
Fucking.
Laughable.
I bet there is a brain in there somewhere. But, a massive chunk is just acting as a life support system for your inflated ego. Not much left for insight into anything at all.
And if I could have a pvp build, and an everything else build; so I didn't have to gimp my characters to take all those advants that are useless outside of pvp.
Your posts aren't obviously intelligent, they are obviously arrogant.
You think you know who you are, but self-awareness and big egos don't mix.
You are a just writing us a story... and its a sloppily written power fantasy. "I'm a big shining dawk dwagon! And soooooo smart!"
Just.
Fucking.
Laughable.
I bet there is a brain in there somewhere. But, a massive chunk is just acting as a life support system for your inflated ego. Not much left for insight into anything at all.
They are intelligent, don't deny the truth, go re-read them all and discover that, for example, I said a tonn of things that are very not-obvious facts of life. And yes, I seem arrogant compared to you, but thats simply cos you're pathetic in comparrison.
They do mix very well considering that majority of humans on this planet are total idiots, so it automatically seem like I'm boasting over myself if I am simply stating a fact that I'm smarter than the herd of unthinking and ignorant people like you.
I don't write a story, I role-play, and your tiny mind can't seem to grasp a difference between those 2 acts.
And once again empty insults that are not backed up by any errors/inconsistencies/untruths in my posts or deeds, typical way of arguing that is always coming from hillbillies, just insults and nothing else.
And, most importantly, may I ask for your in-game character name or handle? ^,..,^
They are intelligent, don't deny the truth, go re-read them all
How about you reread them. Yes, I am ignoring all your arguments, and just taking jabs at you, and there is a very simple reason for that. Your graceless conduct is an eyesore.
If you have reread your posts by now, then you should realize that insults make up a sizeable chunk and self-aggrandizing statements another hefty portion. There is a lil bit of content squeezed in there, and tbh it is kinda interesting, and I would like to argue those points. But, you don't deserve the respect of having your points taken seriously.
If you can't conduct yourself in a remotely acceptable manner, it is unreasonable to expect to be treated with any seriousness.
If you really want to debate me. Go back and edit your initial response, remove the insults, nix the masturbatory statements about your intellect, and pin on an apology. Then I will happily address your points.
As far as hanging out with you in-game... I'm gonna take a hard pass on that. Sucks for you that you need to endure your own company, but there is no way I'm gonna share that misery with you.
They are intelligent, don't deny the truth, go re-read them all
How about you reread them. Yes, I am ignoring all your arguments, and just taking jabs at you, and there is a very simple reason for that. Your graceless conduct is an eyesore.
If you have reread your posts by now, then you should realize that insults make up a sizeable chunk and self-aggrandizing statements another hefty portion. There is a lil bit of content squeezed in there, and tbh it is kinda interesting, and I would like to argue those points. But, you don't deserve the respect of having your points taken seriously.
If you can't conduct yourself in a remotely acceptable manner, it is unreasonable to expect to be treated with any seriousness.
If you really want to debate me. Go back and edit your initial response, remove the insults, nix the masturbatory statements about your intellect, and pin on an apology. Then I will happily address your points.
As far as hanging out with you in-game... I'm gonna take a hard pass on that. Sucks for you that you need to endure your own company, but there is no way I'm gonna share that misery with you.
I never start insulting others first, I always only punch back, but when I do, I do it much harder than the one who did it first.
Nice avoidance of my old posts, many of which weren't insulting at all, focusing only on stuff I said in responce to your own insults, hahahah.
I don't treat you seriously either, after your first post I treat you like a human garbage that you truly are. A waste of air on this planet that exists only to annoy others with their stupidity and disrespect.
Ohohoh, how about you do it first, mister hypocrite?
Oh, its not for hanging out, its for destroying you in every ocassion I have an opportunity to do in game... >:)
It's quite funny that you're so stupid to not realize it.
I never start insulting others first, I always only punch back, but when I do, I do it much harder than the one who did it first.
You call those gentle kitten paw taps punches?
"Whiny, insecure edgelord"? Find me at least one example of whining or insecurity coming from me please, useless forum troll.
And yes, I call them metaphorical "punches" because I don't know where he lives+most likely he's too far for me to apply real punches. If I'll get an opportunity to erase him in any game he plays, I'll definitely use it, and, since you've proven to be just as retarded as he is just now, same fate awaits you too, pathetic weaboo forum clown.
And yes, I call them metaphorical "punches" because I don't know where he lives+most likely he's too far for me to apply real punches. If I'll get an opportunity to erase him in any game he plays, I'll definitely use it, and, since you've proven to be just as retarded as he is just now, same fate awaits you too, pathetic weaboo forum clown.
Do you talk like Shadow the Hedgehog in real life too?
Comments
Now, I was playing my level 40 Marksman AT, who does pretty well solo and in most group content. The only hero games queue which was popping was Unlimited BASH - Westside. Someone was calling in Zone chat for people to queue so, not having much else pressing that needed to be done, I thought 'why not?'. I grabbed the first couple of missions from the hero games promoter (thinking that I may as well while I was at it) and headed on in. The queue was popping in about 5 minutes. I hadn't PvPed in this game since the early days of hero games, way back when.
The gulf between my toon and the others was quickly apparent. The 6,000 health of my 'glass cannon' was less than half that of even the weakest of the others. I was the only one playing a toon without acrobatics/athletics or superspeed (my Marksman packs flight and tunneling - both of which help out when trying to quickly solo PvE content). Everyone (or, at least, enough people) had 'nailed to the ground' so my flight was nigh useless (although this one I'd expected, as even 'back in the day' NTTG was considered a requirement for PvP builds). The biggest shock, to me, was how little damage I inflicted when I attacked - attacks that regularly hit supervillains for around 1,000 damage a pulse were struggling to inflict more than 100-200 damage. Everyone apart from me had reliable self-heals, so even if I whittled anyone's health down it just popped back up again. Anyone who targeted me hit me with the good ol' stun / burst of damage combo which (being an AT without any real defences) face-planted me every time. In short, it was a frustrating experience.
The thing is, the others in the matches were actually pretty balanced against each other - it was non-PvPer, AT, me that was the odd toon out. I died a lot, of course, but if anything the others were going out of their way to not kill my toon - to the point of one guy requesting politely that I stopped attacking, as it was annoying enough that he was forced to target me when I did (I suspect it was the AoE root he was referring to). Of course, just watching evenly matched PvPers beat on each other for a long time isn't something that's overly interesting to me (and something I can do standing around Ren Centre watching random duels). Overall I felt like an intruder into an aspect of the game I shouldn't be attempting. My assumption is that, if they hadn't needed the numbers to get the queue to pop, those guys wouldn't have even been requesting people in zone chat.
None of the above was the fault of the PvPers: they seemed to be having fun, and weren't singling me out to 'bully' me or anything (even though that would have been a much better tactic if they'd wanted to win quickly) - if anything, they seemed much more interested in fighting each other and keeping it going for as long as possible.
Now, as far as I can tell, the architecture for me, and those playing similar toons, to have a better PvP experience is there - there are AT-specific queues, there are matches which aren't just free-for-alls. It's just that the other PvP queues don't pop. There just aren't the numbers needed. Acclaim seems to accumulate fast (from zero to over 40,000 in just three matches) so, in theory, it could be the fastest way to acquire Heroic gear these days, so there is some motivation (beyond luchadore costumes and action figures) to play hero games. So what's lacking?
If I had to guess I'd say it's visibility. Back in the day, when hero games first started, everyone had a go (there was a lot less to do back then...). These days, compared with Alerts, the hero games queues are hidden. Compared with open missions and cosmics you can just witness when out and about hero games are hidden. Hero games are like some of the less-well-known 'social' areas dotted about - you walk into one and any 'regulars' look at you like you have two heads - hero games have evolved into something for a select few, not by anyone's choice, just by the 'natural selection' of the game.
Maybe if there was a rotating hero games match, with a graphic, up by the alerts (in a similar manner to the rotating custom alerts or rampages) people would be more inclined to dip their toes in? Maybe an event, where a special type of hero games match is played out in an arena in the middle of Ren Centre (cage match anyone?) which can be publicly viewed as it goes on would get people interested (and give those who've already earned their acclaim-based rewards an excuse to parade around in their luchadore costumes and championship belts)? Maybe Champions Online could follow some of the recent 'Battle Royale' style games and introduce special 'victory emotes' which automatically play when you defeat a foe in hero games - perhaps along with related automated 'smack talk' messages coming across screen (in the 'X has opened a lockbox, woo!' style, but just for the match you're in or watching) calling out victor and victim when a participant is defeated? Basically just stuff to make hero games a more obvious and integrated part of the overall game - stuff to get the numbers of participants up which should, in theory, mitigate some of the 'PvPers Vs the rest of the game' rut the hero games seem to have fallen into. Anyway, that's just my proverbial two cents.
> ...Anyway, that's just my proverbial two cents.
Awesome post and refreshing to hear an unbiased opinion. From an AT, even! If you ever unlock a freeform character, you will be able to compete like those other weirdos. You make me want to resub, btw. That's why it's so "awesome."
I very much enjoyed just watching people fight it out and at times, altho I was as neutral as possible generally (sometimes you just have to make a "fool" rage tho.) Unfortunately for BASH, specifically, it is the perfect HG game to gang up on "hated" targets. That forced me into very specific, niche' specs.
Other Hero Games are much more appealing, but likely still suffer from a very old bug that kicks people out of the queue pop, making for uneven matches. UTC was always a favorite of mine. It has the best potential for at least a 4v4, or 5v5 team based PvP match. Just team up with your mates and queue up as a team. KoTH/King of the Hill is similar as it is team-based regarding queueing, and is also very fun for tank specs.
Stronghold is a very fun team-based PvPvE HG mode and so is ZA/Zombie Apocalypse. ZA also has the best title and belt costume unlocks.
I digress. Try contacting the devs personally with your ideas. They may appreciate it much like I have.
My first online game was Ultima Online and I got into it because of the crafting, I joined it back around 1998 before there was Trammel (PvE) and it was open world PvP. If you left the guard zones, you had a chance to die, and I can remember running between cities carrying/wearing nothing because if they kill you they could loot you and BTW they would cut your body up, and lock down your head in their houses and it would say "the Head of". So here I am as a Blacksmith with very little in combat skills getting nuked by PvP'ers
SO this is what started my dislike for PvP, I then tried WoW more of the same but I did try PvP there and it just left a bad taste in my mouth, and the grief that SOME PvP'ers give you when they win just really turned me off. So now when I look at online games the first thing I look at is the PvP forced, if it is I do not play that game.
And I agree the PvP should be part of games, BUT not forced or open world PvP - each player should be able to choose how they want to play this game or any game.
So for me,starting out it was the attitude from some PvP'ers, and now as I am getting closer to 60yrs old and close to 20yrs online gaming time, I have notice I am not as fast on the keyboard as I was.
Initially it wasn't bad, even fun then came the griefers and haters... I soon realized that I wasn't having any more fun. It didn't matter if I was winning I wasn't enjoy the game anymore. I ended up walking away.
Over the years I've played a few other games and now a days I don't see any reason to even bother with pvp, I rarely enjoy the experience as I end up seeing or hearing, which is the very reason I refuse to use the voip features of the few games I still play online, all the griefers and haters in the game.
I have to deal with enough grief and hate in my daily life. I don't need to deal with yet more while I'm trying to relax and generally unwind. As such I don't bother playing games with require pvp and I'm rapidly growing agitated with the mechanics of the blood moon event... which has a number of pvp based quests...
This guy has zero clue about MOBAs.
1.There are plenty of friendly people who play those games. There are some huge jerks that play this one, btw.
2. Balance is a HUGE issue in all MOBAS. Go to any moba forum, and 75-90% of posts are about game balance, power balance, item balance, or hero balance. However, MOBAS are balanced as a team vs team game. Some characters (called carries) can indeed 1v5, if they do really well in the early game. But, that power spike is usually delayed, and those same heroes can be shut down hard in the early game.
3. And the popular MOBAs have big dev teams that constantly tweak the balance, and make small changes to try and keep the game feeling fresh.
Was just reading this thread for the lols, but this hurt my brain too much to let is slide on by.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Amen, and they hurt larger games as well. It has always amazed me, how "brave" some people are when there is a computer/cell screen protecting them.
Smaller games with toxic pvp communities like ours have barely any advertising, and word of mouth is hampered by the fact that it's much harder to convince people to get interested in a game that isn't very active and popular, so you end up seeing player growth get outpaced by player losses much more easily. This leads to a stagnating pvp player base which leads to even more losses because "I'm always fighting the same people and it's boring" at which point the dam breaks and here we are.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I think I should of explain my statement a little more, Toxic Players hurt the game as a whole (IMO) not just PvP. In my 20yrs of online gaming I "met" so many players who get their ego stroked by being the "Toxic" person in game since most of them (again IMO) cannot be that way in real life, because they would get their teeth handed to them.
To me this is just a game, but for some that I have met (like World of Warships i.e.) it becomes their whole reason of being, and they become the "expert" in the game, who flame anyone who does not play "their" game the "right way". In the fore mention game I have see in chat (PvP and PvE), players tell players they should drop dead because "they cost them the match".
And this was one of the minor thing I saw, so for me it is one of the reasons that I have all but stopped playing WoWs. And it is one of the reasons I really do not care for PvP, because in my experience this is where I have met a lot of Toxic players. Not all, I have also met really good PvP players would not berate you because you lost to them and some would even give you tips on how to improve.
I can think of one who always stands out in my memories - the Character's was Ox, I met "him" in Ultima Online when the game was still open world PvP. He did not attack you with a gang of Guild Mates, or friends. If your character was set up as a craftsman he would "rob" you instead by asking for half of your money. If you refused or fought it was game on!
And he would go after PvP Gangs, ones that would brag how strong they was, by himself. Once he got to know you, and knew you was not into PvP he would leave you alone. See for him PvP was about the challenge, not about how many heads he could take.
But for some PvP players now it is not about a challenge it is only bragging rights. And @spinnytop I am not disagreeing with your statement, you have way more experience in CO than I do, this is just my opinion.
I agree with you that all that stuff you mentioned sounds really annoying, of course I'd be lying if I wasn't salty and underhanded when it comes to PvP myself. My method of playing BASH was teleporting around and lurking until I had an opportunity to blow up some people who were fighting each other, then run away, and you better believe if I lose at UTC I be makin' a stink about it! ...only UTC for some reason tho, weird. Also duels. I used to get really salty about duels. Looking back I'm not sure why u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The thing about toxic people is that they tend to be pretty terrible at any challenging game. Blaming other people for your losses and flaming them, is not a great way to target your own issues, and improve. So, toxicity tends to be worst for entry-level players of these games (which must be terrible for new player retention). But, once you endure that initial toxic hazing, a level-headed person can leave the majority of those folks in the dust.
I don't think this holds true for CO because some of the most die-hard PVPers seem to be the most toxic players one could encounter. Maybe because everyone who wasn't strangely desperate stopped any attempt at serious pvp long ago. I don't know though, just idle speculation.
It is WoWs = World of Warships - and it was more than PvP it was also in its PvE.
Is warships a big game? I wouldn't know.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
xD I played DotA for 10+ years competitively and was in a top 2 world-class professional team, definitely I have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about mobas, hahahaha.
1.There are no absolutes in this universe so thanks captain obvious, what could we do without you?
2.If you know concepts like *diversity* and *balance* you would know that they are exclusive, all games lately have crazy diversity, meaning balance is simply impossible without quantum-computer type brains to account for all possibilities.
And guess what, if you have an intelligence above typical hairless ape level, u can easily find heroes that CANT be stopped and destroy everything from beginning to the end.
3.Doesnt change my point, they are still super popular while being imbalanced, you said absolutely nothing to disprove that.
It was noticable that you were reading it for lolz, you clearly dont have intelligence to respect and analyze the words of the posters whom you know nothing about. Just get the **** out from here pathetic clown, stop embarassing yourself with your own stupid posts.
Hahahah so much stupidity in this post again xD
1. https://www.lol-smurfs.com/blog/is-league-of-legends-dying/ Swallow this you pathetic clown.
2. Simply not true, some people who flame, me for example. are good and flame the bad one's if they drag us down, cos we realize that you cant win every game in a 5v5 setting where you have limits on what you can do.
3. You have just disproven your own paragraph 2, and no, trolling here is done for a reason that you can't even comprehend with your tiny brain.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Im not salty, I just like to flame others since you know... Dragons always flame those who disturbs them! >:)
1. I define myself by many more things than just intelligence.
2. I know perfectly well my level of intelligence, and it's a fact that its greater than yours, almost anyone can see it after simply examining your irrational posts. No delusions of grandeur needed for this at all.
You think you know who you are, but self-awareness and big egos don't mix.
You are a just writing us a story... and its a sloppily written power fantasy. "I'm a big shining dawk dwagon! And soooooo smart!"
Just.
Fucking.
Laughable.
I bet there is a brain in there somewhere. But, a massive chunk is just acting as a life support system for your inflated ego. Not much left for insight into anything at all.
╚╗╔╝
╔╝(¯v´¯)
╚══.¸Menagerie
They are intelligent, don't deny the truth, go re-read them all and discover that, for example, I said a tonn of things that are very not-obvious facts of life. And yes, I seem arrogant compared to you, but thats simply cos you're pathetic in comparrison.
They do mix very well considering that majority of humans on this planet are total idiots, so it automatically seem like I'm boasting over myself if I am simply stating a fact that I'm smarter than the herd of unthinking and ignorant people like you.
I don't write a story, I role-play, and your tiny mind can't seem to grasp a difference between those 2 acts.
And once again empty insults that are not backed up by any errors/inconsistencies/untruths in my posts or deeds, typical way of arguing that is always coming from hillbillies, just insults and nothing else.
And, most importantly, may I ask for your in-game character name or handle? ^,..,^
Once again, you're giving yourself way too much credit.
How about you reread them. Yes, I am ignoring all your arguments, and just taking jabs at you, and there is a very simple reason for that. Your graceless conduct is an eyesore.
If you have reread your posts by now, then you should realize that insults make up a sizeable chunk and self-aggrandizing statements another hefty portion. There is a lil bit of content squeezed in there, and tbh it is kinda interesting, and I would like to argue those points. But, you don't deserve the respect of having your points taken seriously.
If you can't conduct yourself in a remotely acceptable manner, it is unreasonable to expect to be treated with any seriousness.
If you really want to debate me. Go back and edit your initial response, remove the insults, nix the masturbatory statements about your intellect, and pin on an apology. Then I will happily address your points.
As far as hanging out with you in-game... I'm gonna take a hard pass on that. Sucks for you that you need to endure your own company, but there is no way I'm gonna share that misery with you.
I never start insulting others first, I always only punch back, but when I do, I do it much harder than the one who did it first.
Nice avoidance of my old posts, many of which weren't insulting at all, focusing only on stuff I said in responce to your own insults, hahahah.
I don't treat you seriously either, after your first post I treat you like a human garbage that you truly are. A waste of air on this planet that exists only to annoy others with their stupidity and disrespect.
Ohohoh, how about you do it first, mister hypocrite?
Oh, its not for hanging out, its for destroying you in every ocassion I have an opportunity to do in game... >:)
It's quite funny that you're so stupid to not realize it.
Whiny, insecure edgelords often do u3u watching you talk to those two feels like watching a person talk to a Sonic the Hedgehog OC.
You call those gentle kitten paw taps punches?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
"Whiny, insecure edgelord"? Find me at least one example of whining or insecurity coming from me please, useless forum troll.
And yes, I call them metaphorical "punches" because I don't know where he lives+most likely he's too far for me to apply real punches. If I'll get an opportunity to erase him in any game he plays, I'll definitely use it, and, since you've proven to be just as retarded as he is just now, same fate awaits you too, pathetic weaboo forum clown.
I think "online sociopath" is looking to be a more appropiate label now.
Every post of yours in this thread in its entirety.
Do you talk like Shadow the Hedgehog in real life too?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.