ranking alert missions

samuzai · January 2018

Ok first of all let me establish that I have a college education. Second, it took me way, way too long to realize that the list of names shown at the end of alert missions were in alphabetical order and not listed in order of performance. I was dumbfounded why blur was so dominant and Route never seemed able to pull himself together. But I digress.

Why aren't they listed by rankings, similar to Clarence? If you can rank so many different players during those events, surely ranking 5 would be child's play.. or am i missing something? It seems like it would make them much more exciting for testing builds and whatnot. I realize that there are parsers available but I'm not sure I'm THAT interested in the numbers. Something convenient would be great though.

markhawkman · January 2018

Some do, some don't. for extra insanity, Forum Malvanum doesn't even display scores at all!

aesica · January 2018

There's no reason to display rankings in basic 5-man alerts.

pantagruel01 · January 2018

aesica said:
There's no reason to display rankings in basic 5-man alerts.

It serves the same purpose it does in any open mission -- ego gratification and giving feedback so you actually have some idea of how well you did. Of course, that comes with the side effect of making people who score poorly feel bad about themselves.

chaelk · January 2018

pantagruel01 said:

aesica said:
There's no reason to display rankings in basic 5-man alerts.
It serves the same purpose it does in any open mission -- ego gratification and giving feedback so you actually have some idea of how well you did. Of course, that comes with the side effect of making people who score poorly feel bad about themselves.

and so the dick wavers can go, "hey look, mines 2 pts bigger than yours"

also some alerts with scores don't score heal or CC,also both of those usually have lower numbers than DPS.
So all you have is highest dps on the table. Yes, let's make anyone who isn't a dps feel bad.

pantagruel01 · January 2018

chaelk said:
and so the dick wavers can go, "hey look, mines 2 pts bigger than yours"

I was making an attempt to use neutral language...

chaelk said:
also some alerts with scores don't score heal or CC,also both of those usually have lower numbers than DPS.

Most alerts don't score anything; I doubt adding scoring for multiple categories is that much harder than adding it for just damage.

aesica · January 2018

pantagruel01 wrote: »

It serves the same purpose it does in any open mission -- ego gratification and giving feedback so you actually have some idea of how well you did. Of course, that comes with the side effect of making people who score poorly feel bad about themselves.

Yeah, the side effect is what I don't like. It's fine (albeit crude) for self-assessment, but I don't really like the idea of it effectively telling someone who might be newer that they contributed practically nothing compared to the GCR-geared 40 they got lumped in with.

Of course, the best approach would be to fix the scaling, because then this other problem would be irrelevant.

spinnytop · January 2018

samuzai#1327 said:
Ok first of all let me establish that I have a college education.

Let me establish that I have a sandwich o3o

I mean hey if they want to tick on the score boards in alerts and have a giant number next to my name I'm cool with it. Don't see how it would improve anything. I already know I'm steamrolling alerts so the score wouldn't tell me anything new, and alerts are generally too easy to warrant the need for "performance data". If anything the scoreboard being on would only encourage me to not help whoever I end up in there with and just go around solo-squashing groups for big MLG scores.

Oh, the sandwich is gone now.

markhawkman · January 2018

pantagruel01 said:

chaelk said:
and so the dick wavers can go, "hey look, mines 2 pts bigger than yours"
I was making an attempt to use neutral language...
chaelk said:
also some alerts with scores don't score heal or CC,also both of those usually have lower numbers than DPS.
Most alerts don't score anything; I doubt adding scoring for multiple categories is that much harder than adding it for just damage.

Then there's Red Winter where healing seems to score 10X what damage does...

pantagruel01 · January 2018

markhawkman said:
Then there's Red Winter where healing seems to score 10X what damage does...

Healing score in Red Winter is normal (1 healing = 1 score). Damage score is reduced for some reason.

joltrabbit · January 2018

Better Idea: Remove the scoreboard from any alert that doesn't score players.

spinnytop · January 2018

joltrabbit#1208 said:
Better Idea: Remove the scoreboard from any alert that doesn't score players.

Sensible, since currently the scoreboard only serves to make people wonder why it's there.

magpieuk2014 · January 2018

I like the scoreboard on the "A Bullet Bound For Biselle" open mission. Everyone in MC at the time gets a credit, which is v.inclusive.

markhawkman · January 2018

magpieuk2014 said:
I like the scoreboard on the "A Bullet Bound For Biselle" open mission. Everyone in MC at the time gets a credit, which is v.inclusive.

I don't think it's actually everyone. Just anyone who killed anything in the mission area while the mission was active.... and that OM is often up for days at a time.

chaelk · January 2018

pantagruel01 said:

markhawkman said:
Then there's Red Winter where healing seems to score 10X what damage does...
Healing score in Red Winter is normal (1 healing = 1 score). Damage score is reduced for some reason.

BINGO, I was wondering how my Radiant ended up top score in one. I could understand the Grimoire getting second, it was spamming skarnes bane but not the radiant.
--------------
The trouble with the Open missions and Reign of frogs is notorious for it, is that everyone in the area, regardless of whether they are doing the mission, scores.
I've done all of reign of frogs myself and come second.

markhawkman · January 2018

some people will farm the Gadroon in Frogs just because they want mod drops.

ealford1985 · January 2018

I’m okay with score.

I like to see how I’m performing

nevyn34 · January 2018

1. Radiation Rumble. Love this one.
2. Dockside Dustup.
3. Trainspotting
4. All those XP alerts
5. Custom Alerts
6.-99. Blank
100. Pyramid Power.

Oh, you meant the score ranking.

samuzai · January 2018

Wow some of you seem kind of harsh, and please stop looking at my dick I assure you that I'm not waving it. I was in a team yesterday where one would repeatedly *help* by pulling entire rooms to us causing wipe after wipe. Some sighed and I whispered advice to them but none embarrassed him.

. It's kind of weird that some think that ranking low directly relates to their self worth, that must be a burden through life.

*I* want to see how I perform among my general peers or even have a reference for all time highs etc. Hate to break it to you but how *you* performed doesn't interest me, what is it with this game drawing so many narcissists?

samuzai · January 2018

> @nevyn34 said:
> 1. Radiation Rumble. Love this one.
> 2. Dockside Dustup.
> 3. Trainspotting
> 4. All those XP alerts
> 5. Custom Alerts
> 6.-99. Blank
> 100. Pyramid Power.
>
> Oh, you meant the score ranking.
Yeah lol but I'm down to change it to. Pyramid power hate thread, it's about time we spoke up about it

jonesing4 · January 2018

> @nevyn34 said:
> 1. Radiation Rumble. Love this one.
> 2. Dockside Dustup.
> 3. Trainspotting
> 4. All those XP alerts
> 5. Custom Alerts
> 6.-99. Blank
> 100. Pyramid Power.
>
> Oh, you meant the score ranking.

I think Pyramid Power is ranked too highly here, please correct.

magpieuk2014 · January 2018

I don't think it's actually everyone. Just anyone who killed anything in the mission area while the mission was active.... and that OM is often up for days at a time.

Ah, I see. I was perk collecting so it might have been some time....

spinnytop · January 2018

samuzai#1327 said:
Hate to break it to you but how *you* performed doesn't interest me, what is it with this game drawing so many narcissists?

I dunno. Tell us what attracted you to this game?

kamokami · January 2018

ealford1985 said:
I’m okay with score.

I like to see how I’m performing

Unfortunately anything but the extreme ends of the score table is pretty unreliable. And when it comes to Cosmics, if everyone on the table has inflated scores that generally means the Cosmic took a very long time and the run was actually not great.

If you like to see how you're performing, I suggest getting a parser...see link in my sig...once you get comfortable using one it's tough to go back to just looking at the score as there is not much to learn there.

spinnytop · January 2018

In alerts you can generally tell how well you're performing just by looking at what's happening. If you're trying to tank and everything is hitting you, you did good! If you're a dps and the things you hit take large amounts of damage, great! And so on and so forth. There isn't much beyond that that a scoreboard or even a parser will tell you.

With cosmics it's more difficult to determine how you're doing for dps since all your attacks just go into a giant pile of hit points and there's no real feedback, though you can see how well you're doing defensively - tanks can still largely see how they're doing by looking at what's happening, and healers just need to watch the teamup UI to see if everyone is being kept up.

pantagruel01 · January 2018

spinnytop said:
In alerts you can generally tell how well you're performing just by looking at what's happening. If you're trying to tank and everything is hitting you, you did good! If you're a dps and the things you hit take large amounts of damage, great! And so on and so forth. There isn't much beyond that that a scoreboard or even a parser will tell you.

A scoreboard or parser will give you perspective -- sure, it seems like I'm doing a lot of damage, but is it actually true relative to other people? That's mostly useful for dps (you can only effectively compare heals if there's more than one healer present, and "did the team stay up?" is obvious. Likewise, "did I hold aggro and stay alive" is pretty obvious for tanks).

sterga · January 2018

Is there a massive problems with elitism in all of the content that already has a scoreboard? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. I don't see a problem with having useful scoreboards in this game. I like to see how well I do on occasion compared to other people but am generally to lazy to bother parsing.

In fact, I like the scoreboards that they had when I played Neverwinter last. They had all kinds of data in different categories so you could see healing under a healing board, dps under a dps board, etc.

spinnytop · January 2018

sterga said:
I don't see a problem with having useful scoreboards in this game.

Me neither. Lemme know when they implement a useful scoreboard. That neverwinter one sounds useful, ours isn't.

rtma · January 2018

I don't understand the stigma behind Pyramid Power, it's literally 3 steps,
1, Move out and defeat mobs to get inside,
2, move inside and release Dr Kaa to initiate boss battle,
3, Beat on Boss til victory, collect, done,
Not much different from Radiation Rumble, you still got the Boss and mobs to finish, just because you don't use the buff from the start doesn't mean it's bad. :P

pantagruel01 · January 2018

rtma said:
I don't understand the stigma behind Pyramid Power.

It's significantly slower than rad rumble, and given that burst alerts have trash rewards, it doesn't take much extra effort to be Not Worth It.

markhawkman · January 2018

rtma said:
I don't understand the stigma behind Pyramid Power, it's literally 3 steps,
1, Move out and defeat mobs to get inside,
2, move inside and release Dr Kaa to initiate boss battle,
3, Beat on Boss til victory, collect, done,
Not much different from Radiation Rumble, you still got the Boss and mobs to finish, just because you don't use the buff from the start doesn't mean it's bad. :P

I don't have a problem with it either. Yes, it's a bit slow, but the upside is that you don't have to literally stand around waiting for mooks to spawn before you can finish the mission.

aesica · January 2018

sterga wrote: »

I don't see a problem with having useful scoreboards in this game.

The keyword there is "useful." If it gave a proper breakdown of things like damage dealt, healing dealt, damage received, threat generated, damage mitigated, deadly things blocked, times killed, etc, it'd be a lot more useful than it is currently.

rtma wrote: »

I don't understand the stigma behind Pyramid Power, it's literally 3 steps,
1, Move out and defeat mobs to get inside,
2, move inside and release Dr Kaa to initiate boss battle,
3, Beat on Boss til victory, collect, done,
Not much different from Radiation Rumble, you still got the Boss and mobs to finish, just because you don't use the buff from the start doesn't mean it's bad. :P

In contrast, Rad Rumble is basically this:
1. Kill everything in sight until the cutscene.
2. Collect reward.

I suspect the main issue people have with Pyramid Power is the fact that it plays more like a Grab, but Burst rewards are completely useless and people are only really running them for the daily. Rad Rumble is the path of least resistance.

markhawkman · January 2018

short version: Rad Rumble is quicker than Pyramid Power. It's not hard, it's just longer.

biffsmackwell · January 2018

Yup, it's really all about the time spent running the alert. For Grabs the only ones I run are Day at the Mall and Fighting City Hall. Museum and bank have too much stuff standing between me and the goal. Especially when I'm sitting on double XP, I don't wanna sit through a long mission only to find that I'm stuck with a bunch of level 15s constantly dying and leaving and wasting my buff.

With Smashes I avoid Trainstopping because it takes longer. The Two Minute Drills, Recruiting Drives, and Soul Siphons are all so much quicker.

And yep, for Bursts, comparing the time spent between Rad Rumble and Pyramid Power, there is a clear winner there.

I guess it's all about maximizing rewards for time spent. (And when the direct reward isn't great, the real reward is the Questionite and SCR you get for the dailies.)

rtma · January 2018

aesica said:
Rad Rumble is the path of least resistance.

Right so human nature and conditioning (been analyzing for years, evade my thoughts lately, burnt out on it most likely) of course, I was thinking of if Pyramid Power is up, why wait when you can get it done now, take more time waiting for something that can be completed in 10mins or less then procrastinate 20mins or more for alerts to rotate. :P

ikonn · January 2018

Too bad the XP Alerts were moved to Grabs several years ago... It was much simpler to level up when the XP Alerts were Smashes. It also made more sense (to me, at the time, at least) that the Grabs would give the better payout (in Globals).

jaazaniah1 · January 2018

Some of us do other things while waiting for RR to cycle in and replace PP to make the most efficient use of time.

rtma said:

Right so human nature and conditioning (been analyzing for years, evade my thoughts lately, burnt out on it most likely) of course, I was thinking of if Pyramid Power is up, why wait when you can get it done now, take more time waiting for something that can be completed in 10mins or less then procrastinate 20mins or more for alerts to rotate. :P

guyhumual · January 2018

I would do pyramid of power if they lost that first half of the mission and just gave us the boss fight.

pantagruel01 · January 2018

rtma said:

aesica said:
Rad Rumble is the path of least resistance.
Right so human nature and conditioning (been analyzing for years, evade my thoughts lately, burnt out on it most likely) of course, I was thinking of if Pyramid Power is up, why wait when you can get it done now, take more time waiting for something that can be completed in 10mins or less then procrastinate 20mins or more for alerts to rotate. :P

Problem is, between "don't do the mission at all" and "do 3x PP", "don't do the mission at all" wins.

aesica · January 2018

rtma wrote: »

Rad Rumble is the path of least resistance.

Right so human nature and conditioning (been analyzing for years, evade my thoughts lately, burnt out on it most likely) of course, I was thinking of if Pyramid Power is up, why wait when you can get it done now, take more time waiting for something that can be completed in 10mins or less then procrastinate 20mins or more for alerts to rotate. :P

Who said anything about procrastinating for 20+ minutes? There's plenty to do while waiting which results in a better use of one's time.

spinnytop · January 2018

"Must maximize rewards for time invested" beep boop beep, video game playing robot initialized now calculating parameters o3o I'm weird I guess I don't really care what's in the queue I just queue when I wanna do my alert dailies and I do QWZ or event dailies while I wait for it to pop. Think some people take this stuff too seriously u3u glad I'm a casual.

aesica · January 2018

spinnytop wrote: »

"Must maximize rewards for time invested" beep boop beep, video game playing robot initialized now calculating parameters o3o I'm weird I guess I don't really care what's in the queue I just queue when I wanna do my alert dailies and I do QWZ or event dailies while I wait for it to pop. Think some people take this stuff too seriously u3u glad I'm a casual.

I'm pretty casual about this game, too. The thing is, time is precious no matter what you're doing, so if I'm going to do 3 bursts + some other thing, why waste time in PP when I can just do the other thing first, then come back when it flips to RR?

spinnytop · January 2018

I enjoy Pyramid Power more than Rad Rumble, so I'm fine with doing it now.

biffsmackwell · January 2018

Spending time efficiently is not a bad thing. I asked my doctor about this and she said I experienced exactly 3.7 more funs when I play efficiently. And I'm a real boy!

pantagruel01 · January 2018

spinnytop said:
I enjoy Pyramid Power more than Rad Rumble, so I'm fine with doing it now.

If it was a mission that comes up every 7 weeks, like special alerts, I might do it for a change of pace, but if you're going to the alert coordinator you're going to get a mission for this every 4 days, and no version of Rad Rumble is that interesting.

lordnightmare · January 2018

I'm just miffed that after nearly 5 years MC and Vibora are the only places you get alerts from. Surely Canadian ones with those Brain Trust geeks, Roin'esh, Cyberlord and whoever else could be added. Or Monster Island with everyone's favorite punchingbags the Qulaar..

spinnytop · January 2018

pantagruel01 said:
If it was a mission that comes up every 7 weeks, like special alerts, I might do it for a change of pace, but if you're going to the alert coordinator you're going to get a mission for this every 4 days, and no version of Rad Rumble is that interesting.

There are multiple versions of Rad Rumble? Far as I can tell they're all "Radiation empowered superheroes steamroll badguys that don't seem as attuned to radiation"

That's why I like Pyramid Power more, bad guys seem better attuned to magical pyramid empowerment vibes.

pantagruel01 · January 2018

Sorry, no version of a Burst alert.

aesica · January 2018

spinnytop wrote: »

I enjoy Pyramid Power more than Rad Rumble, so I'm fine with doing it now.

Anything to be contrary.

lordnightmare#9851 wrote: »

I'm just miffed that after nearly 5 years MC and Vibora are the only places you get alerts from. Surely Canadian ones with those Brain Trust geeks, Roin'esh, Cyberlord and whoever else could be added. Or Monster Island with everyone's favorite punchingbags the Qulaar..

If I had to guess, the current dev team probably lacks the tools required to easily add new (or even change existing) alerts in a meaningful way, given this game's potato coding practices.

spinnytop · January 2018

pantagruel01 said:
Sorry, no version of a Burst alert.

I'll do ya one better: No alert is particularly interesting. The only reason I like some of them better is cause I prefer fighting groups of bad guys that don't fall over too fast. Rad Rumble's baddies flop right over cause we're buffed and they aren't. If they made them more like the mobs in PP when they get buffed then that'd be better, but I guess radiation powers aren't as good as magical pyramid powers?

ranking alert missions

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