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With new games looming, I think CO might be dead in the water
The game is clearly already struggling from low user count. One game (Valiance Online) has started an investor alpha at the beginning of this month, and will be doing a public alpha shortly after that. Ship of Heroes is hoping to do a guided alpha later this year, and have a beta going next year. City of Titans is hoping for a similar timeline. So in light of all of this, I declare this game dead in the water. It was ok to play as a CoH replacement, but it will never live up to it's predecessor, and many new games are coming in to fill the void. Unless there is a substantial and dramatic overhaul of the game, I can't see this game lasting much longer.
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Epic Stronghold
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I'm sorry you lost your game, but CO is and will do far better than any of these Never Going to Happen Games.
All these games will do is dilute the already small Super Hero player base. This will be what? 6 or 7 hero games...someone is going to fail and it ain't going to be CO or the other two with big money in their back pockets.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
For starters, many (I'm tempted to say most, but lack solid data on this point) gamers play more than one game. For myself, assuming VO ever launches and has a free-to-play option, I'll give it a shot - but by no means will I stop playing CO for it, any more than I stopped playing CO when I started playing STO, or Fallout 4, or Fallout Shelter, or...
They're right - this is yet another "CO is dead" thread. This game's imminent demise has been predicted since at least open beta, possibly longer. It's still here. I see nothing to make me think this will change soon.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.
You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.
All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.
You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?
I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I was a die-hard CoXer, but even I have to shake my head sadly at all these "in the spirit of" obviously failing attempts.
yes, i often get an idea of a new toon to try out and buy a boost and Q gear for him, so yeah, im tossing my coins in the well too.
lol
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
> I doubt they would be spending the time to rework all the powersets if CO was going to die any time soon. That would just be a waste.
I didn't realize they were still making active modifications to gameplay. That's actually good to hear.
> The road to success is not "let's copy a game most people thought very outdated when they shut it down five years ago". A tiny niche interest at best, at worst a colossal case of "they're fooling themselves". Hell, CO is ridiculously outdated and likely the only thing keeping it going is the fact that Cryptic outright owns the IP.
>
> I was a die-hard CoXer, but even I have to shake my head sadly at all these "in the spirit of" obviously failing attempts.
Yet, Facebook CoH nostalgia groups have over 5,000 members. So clearly not as niche as you think.
You had a post in April that basically confirmed you hadn't even seen most of the zones. What level are you?
I think unless you have actually experience CO, you really don't have much room to talk.
They had been making updates, revamps and modifications the past 3 years, with Telekinetic Powerframe being the latest revamp
You can't be serious
> Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?
>
> Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
>
>
>
> These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.
>
> You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.
>
> All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.
>
> You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?
>
> I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.
Keep in mind, all these games are stil> @bluhman said:
> Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?
>
> Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
>
>
>
> These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.
>
> You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.
>
> All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.
>
> You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?
>
> I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.
Keep in mind, all these games are still in alpha or pre alpha. CO has been around for 8 years. So of course these games are going to look rough, whether they're indie devs or not.
Your point about recharges is fair enough. However, that is pretty standard for the genre, even today. They may not be the most unique games, but there is a definite following out there who have been let down by CO and are looking for their home again. . I think at least one of these games will succeed in that regard, and begin to suck players away from this already struggling game.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
While you pretty much covered everything nicely, I do need to point out that the MMO genre isn't necessarily dying, but rather, it's just changing its weight distribution a bit. The MMO genre is pretty broad, and includes facebook/mobile style multi-player games which are far cheaper to produce and still turn respectable profits. It wouldn't surprise me to see the production cost vs profits ratio of facebook/mobile MMOs absolutely towering over the traditional 3D open-world MMOs, given how much more expensive the latter is to develop.
Guided alpha, public alpha. it's still alpha...
So you can declare what you declare.
Lets talk about these "games" when they're in beta. That must be in next 3-5 years.
And you got 1 thing right. Looming. That's all those game's are doing. Past, what 3 years? Or is it more.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Sure, someday CO will go away. From what I can see, that's not going to be soon. Kidrad, on the other hand, appears to be gone already, so...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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But I dont consider it a relic or by any means ready to be discarded!
There is still potential and fun to be had here, it deserves its rightful place in the MMO world!!
^champions Online is cryptics "scotty", they've thrown their worst treatment at it and its still alive and a fun game!!
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
You find one better than CO, I'll play it. You find one like CoX, never.
As for your fact number 2, as usual, you are dead wrong. We are not Co hardliners, just most of us have been around long enough to have seen these type of fan projects before, not to mention how little they've actually accomplished in a longer time frame than they actually promised. So, it has little to do with being a hardliner and more of a realist to the situation. I know you like to pretend you are some MMO guru that knows more than the combined knowledge of the development world, but yea. You are often wrong.
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> OK, Fact number 1, VO has more people working on it than CO does, and by that I mean at least twice as many people if not more.
>
> Fact number 2, OP, this is the WORST place to mention alternative games in development as whoever remains here is a super CO hardliner who WILL not be convinced to believe that another game can ever take the (pathetic as it is) spot CO has now or surpass it.
Fair enough, learned that lesson the hard way. Thought at least they might be receptive to alternatives with prospects for a new approach, but perhaps I framed the issue poorly. Of course people will not respond positively when they feel on the defense. But then again, perhaps you are right that they are CO hardliners who refuse to believe that any other game could come along and be better than their beloved.
To be fair, CO does have a lot going for it. One of the best costume creators ever. (Still not better than COH) Some great combat and power selection. (Still not better than CoH) Some great story arcs and bad guys. (Still not better than CoH) So there is a lot of good that CO has going for it. But there is a good reason a lot of people are bored and disappointed with it. They've clearly given up on making pvp anything substantial. The gear system is nonsensical. There are no controllers or commanders archetypes (that I'm aware of). The overall aesthetic is way too comic bookey. Restricting access to archetypes. The list goes on. So I personally hope that we can do better one day. Who knows who will accomplish that. But again, unless they make major tweaks, it won't be CO themselves.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
And one of the main reasons I quit CoX and invested all my time and money to CO was i hated hated hated the combat system in CoX. CO is more interactive and CoX was just click....wait..wait and repeat.
The problem with this thread and why it's a failure on your part is you came in with little to no knowledge of the game and the typical troll bait of "this game is dead".
I'm going to assume you are still stuck in Westside. You didn't like CO...and that is fine, a game should have your interest in the beginning. CoX had mine when I saw a binder of trading card like items in the game store...but lost it when I played the actual game (it should be fair to note it was CoV and still had the crap where you had to level just to get a cape).
There is not a single bit of enthusiasm on my part when I look at these new games, CoT is the only one that maybe I would try IF it ever came out...but these others are just jokes. I literally laughed when I saw Ship of Heroes. So for someone to say a game is going to topple something I've played more than any other game in my life...when they all look like straight up dog **** and look in no way even close to being ready, is a joke.
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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> I can agree CoX had (some) better things, one being the zones and how large they were but no way in hell are you going to say CoX had a better tailor....freaking mitten hands.
>
> And one of the main reasons I quit CoX and invested all my time and money to CO was i hated hated hated the combat system in CoX. CO is more interactive and CoX was just click....wait..wait and repeat.
>
> The problem with this thread and why it's a failure on your part is you came in with little to no knowledge of the game and the typical troll bait of "this game is dead".
>
> I'm going to assume you are still stuck in Westside. You didn't like CO...and that is fine, a game should have your interest in the beginning. CoX had mine when I saw a binder of trading card like items in the game store...but lost it when I played the actual game (it should be fair to note it was CoV and still had the crap where you had to level just to get a cape).
>
> There is not a single bit of enthusiasm on my part when I look at these new games, CoT is the only one that maybe I would try IF it ever came out...but these others are just jokes. I literally laughed when I saw Ship of Heroes. So for someone to say a game is going to topple something I've played more than any other game in my life...when they all look like straight up dog **** and look in no way even close to being ready, is a joke.
You are so off base I don't even know how to explain it. Suit yourself, you'll feel like an **** when you are a latecomer to the SoH party.