With new games looming, I think CO might be dead in the water

kidrad

The game is clearly already struggling from low user count. One game (Valiance Online) has started an investor alpha at the beginning of this month, and will be doing a public alpha shortly after that. Ship of Heroes is hoping to do a guided alpha later this year, and have a beta going next year. City of Titans is hoping for a similar timeline. So in light of all of this, I declare this game dead in the water. It was ok to play as a CoH replacement, but it will never live up to it's predecessor, and many new games are coming in to fill the void. Unless there is a substantial and dramatic overhaul of the game, I can't see this game lasting much longer.

avianos

​​

kidrad

Hey, if you have a different take on it, I'm interested in hearing it. Not trying to start a controversy, just stating an opinion as I see it.

pantagruel01

CO will die eventually. It is vanishingly unlikely that it will have anything to do with any of the games you mention (none of which are likely to ever even reach launch, let alone be a good product).

kidrad

Ok, now that I will debate you on. Valiance is already in alpha. Which is not to say it will be good, or at least not any better than Champions. However, Ship of Heroes is set to have an alpha this fall, and City of Titans is projecting the same. So you really think that all three of these games will fail to launch, or if they do end up launching, that all of them will suck? That strains credulity.

ealford1985

Another "CO is dead" thread with zero evidence these other games will do anything but sink!

I'm sorry you lost your game, but CO is and will do far better than any of these Never Going to Happen Games.

All these games will do is dilute the already small Super Hero player base. This will be what? 6 or 7 hero games...someone is going to fail and it ain't going to be CO or the other two with big money in their back pockets.

kidrad

My evidence is that they will actually be good. Unlike CO. Not saying CO is bad. But it's not good. And again, calling them "Never Gonna Happen" is funny, considering I have one downloaded on my computer right now already.

pantagruel01

kidrad#5290 said:

So you really think that all three of these games will fail to launch, or if they do end up launching, that all of them will suck? That strains credulity.

Yes. None of them have the staffing, budget, or expertise to succeed, and two of them have long track records of overpromising and underdelivering.

ealford1985

Your evidence is hope.

kidrad

pantagruel01 said:

kidrad#5290 said:

So you really think that all three of these games will fail to launch, or if they do end up launching, that all of them will suck? That strains credulity.

Yes. None of them have the staffing, budget, or expertise to succeed, and two of them have long track records of overpromising and underdelivering.

Yes they are all indie projects, and yes some have had delays, but that does not equal total failure. If anything, the fact that they are the primary projects of these companies means that they will be much higher quality than CO which is one of many projects by Perfect World. One of the least popular at that. So it gets no attention. So I couldn't disagree more with your assessment.

kidrad

Let me put it to you this way. STO and NWN may have been able to keep CO afloat for this long. But when the game stops being profitable, it will become hard to justify. History will repeat itself. As went CoH, so will go CO.

pantagruel01

kidrad#5290 said:

Let me put it to you this way. STO and NWN may have been able to keep CO afloat for this long. But when the game stops being profitable, it will become hard to justify. History will repeat itself. As went CoH, so will go CO.

I never claimed CO was immortal; it's an aging MMO that lacks the subscribers or budget to do more than minor updates to its technology or content. It's just that the plausible threats to it have nothing to do with any of the games you mention.

jonsills

Kidrad, available data indicate that Valiance Online will do little, if anything, to affect CO.

For starters, many (I'm tempted to say most, but lack solid data on this point) gamers play more than one game. For myself, assuming VO ever launches and has a free-to-play option, I'll give it a shot - but by no means will I stop playing CO for it, any more than I stopped playing CO when I started playing STO, or Fallout 4, or Fallout Shelter, or...

They're right - this is yet another "CO is dead" thread. This game's imminent demise has been predicted since at least open beta, possibly longer. It's still here. I see nothing to make me think this will change soon.

doctorevilface

Another day, another doomsayer thread...

opalflame

I doubt they would be spending the time to rework all the powersets if CO was going to die any time soon. That would just be a waste.

bluhman

Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?

Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpiE0WCUGGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsd0bYJMEFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSjgJzmzMsQ
These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.

You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.

All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.

You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?

I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.

rtma

A game isn't dead as long as someone is playing it, somewhere, anytime, they keep it alive.

decorumfriends

The road to success is not "let's copy a game most people thought very outdated when they shut it down five years ago". A tiny niche interest at best, at worst a colossal case of "they're fooling themselves". Hell, CO is ridiculously outdated and likely the only thing keeping it going is the fact that Cryptic outright owns the IP.

I was a die-hard CoXer, but even I have to shake my head sadly at all these "in the spirit of" obviously failing attempts.

catstarsto

rtma said:

A game isn't dead as long as someone is playing it, somewhere, anytime, they keep it alive.

"shut up and take my money!"

yes, i often get an idea of a new toon to try out and buy a boost and Q gear for him, so yeah, im tossing my coins in the well too.
lol

ealford1985

Bluh just laid down the hammer

kidrad

> @opalflame said:
> I doubt they would be spending the time to rework all the powersets if CO was going to die any time soon. That would just be a waste.

I didn't realize they were still making active modifications to gameplay. That's actually good to hear.

kidrad

> @decorumfriends said:
> The road to success is not "let's copy a game most people thought very outdated when they shut it down five years ago". A tiny niche interest at best, at worst a colossal case of "they're fooling themselves". Hell, CO is ridiculously outdated and likely the only thing keeping it going is the fact that Cryptic outright owns the IP.
>
> I was a die-hard CoXer, but even I have to shake my head sadly at all these "in the spirit of" obviously failing attempts.

Yet, Facebook CoH nostalgia groups have over 5,000 members. So clearly not as niche as you think.

ealford1985

What exactly do you know about this game?

You had a post in April that basically confirmed you hadn't even seen most of the zones. What level are you?

I think unless you have actually experience CO, you really don't have much room to talk.

avianos

kidrad#5290 wrote: »

I didn't realize they were still making active modifications to gameplay. That's actually good to hear.

Wait... WHAT!?
They had been making updates, revamps and modifications the past 3 years, with Telekinetic Powerframe being the latest revamp
You can't be serious​​

kidrad

> @bluhman said:
> Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?
>
> Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
>
>
>
> These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.
>
> You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.
>
> All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.
>
> You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?
>
> I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.

Keep in mind, all these games are stil> @bluhman said:
> Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?
>
> Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles. And all they can muster up is... Uh, this?
>
>
>
> These are all the latest 'gameplay' videos I could find for each of the games mentioned. Like, I realize that a majority of these teams aren't actually experienced game developers, they're mostly avid fans of CoX that banded together to try and create successor MMOs. Except even then people still had different ideas about what should be done which is why we now have 3+ games in development with that slant instead of just one real polished-up one. And aside from maybe personal egos, I don't understand why that's the case because gameplay-wise, none of them do anything different.
>
> You need to move the genre forward in some way, some how, but all of these projects are mostly the same, they're literally trying to reproduce what CoX did. While that's admirable, if you want an MMO or multiplayer game to gain any playerbase, it kind of has to try something different. And at the very least, both Champions and DCUO try and push the envelope on that front a bit. Champions does away with recharges for the most part and has battles that emphasize more positioning and timing. And then DCUO has the same and also includes incorporating stuff like combos and parries into the playstyle. There is an attempt to try something new in some propensity, and give players some more actual interaction with the world.
>
> All three of these games seem to boil down to the same "cooldown cycle" gameplay that 2004-era CoX had, maybe with a little position-shtick gimmicks here and there. Like, the whole reason that old MMOs worked that way was because back then network pings were pretty intense on systems so you'd want to limit how often the server and a player interact to keep things from desynching or what have you. It's been 13 years.
>
> You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco. Like, Overwatch was originally going to be an MMO named Project Titan. That probably would've been an awesome third-runner for the Superhero MMO scene, but Blizzard, the guys who made literally the most explosively successful MMO ever, decided to drop the project and turn it around. What's that really say about the genre?
>
> I'm confident the spirit behind games like this and CoX won't die, though. I bet some day there'll be some semi-online Action RPG that taps into the same creativity that this sort of game grants you. If this game's continued existence, and all those determined CoX fans existences are any indication - not to mention, the millions of other people that enjoy creating characters in games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, or Saint's Row, there's a serious market for this sort of game.

Keep in mind, all these games are still in alpha or pre alpha. CO has been around for 8 years. So of course these games are going to look rough, whether they're indie devs or not.

Your point about recharges is fair enough. However, that is pretty standard for the genre, even today. They may not be the most unique games, but there is a definite following out there who have been let down by CO and are looking for their home again. . I think at least one of these games will succeed in that regard, and begin to suck players away from this already struggling game.

championshewolf

kidrad#5290 said:

Ok, now that I will debate you on. Valiance is already in alpha.

I am going to have to stop you riiiight there. VO has been in an "alpha state" now for three or four years now. Saying this is promising is being fool hardy. The game has yet to even meet a single stretch goal and just keeps posting up pictures with no real results for the actual game. A fancy website does not a game make and a game with barely anything in it let alone assets really doesn't make a game.

kidrad#5290 said:

Which is not to say it will be good, or at least not any better than Champions. However, Ship of Heroes is set to have an alpha this fall,

I will have to stop you riiight there again. Ship of Heroes just had a kickstarter failure of monumental proportions. They put up a kickstarter, and within a day or two, already took the kickstarter down claiming lack of interest and they would be downsizing their project to boot. On top of that, the remarkable factor that even Epic were amazed at how fast a bunch of amateurs put things together tells me that many of the assets in their "project" were stolen, especially since their character creation screen and the name of many of the items were ripped straight from City of Heroes directly. Especially since they've been changing names which tells me they've caught the attention of NCSoft with as blatant as they were ripping off assets.

kidrad#5290 said:

and City of Titans is projecting the same. So you really think that all three of these games will fail to launch, or if they do end up launching, that all of them will suck? That strains credulity.

Ima have to stop you again. City of Titans has been projecting their alpha would start soon since they announced their kickstarter. Their alpha was suppose to have started back in 2015, then it got pushed back to 2016, then 2017, and now it's 2018. I dunno about you, but I will be amazed if that alpha comes before the next presidential election. Before you put your faith in something, maybe you should do research on the history of those projects.

jennymachx

kidrad#5290 said:

I didn't realize they were still making active modifications to gameplay. That's actually good to hear.

Well if you actually knew about this game's recent developments you wouldn't be making ludicrous delcarations about how this game is "dead in the water".

nepht

CO is doing fine. Heck I wish I could play it more. Also yeah why would I want to play a copy of a Cryptic game when I could actually play a Cryptic game.

baelogventure

kidrad#5290 said:

Valiance Online
Ship of Heroes
City of Titans

aesica

kidrad#5290 wrote: »

Yet, Facebook CoH nostalgia groups have over 5,000 members. So clearly not as niche as you think.

5000 users isn't really that much. Certainly not enough to offset the development costs of and turn a profit for MMOs like CO, CoH, WoW, etc.

bluhman wrote: »

You're not wrong about CO dying, but literally every single MMO is dying, the genre is dying as a whole since all the devaluation from F2P economy is really stymieing just how expansive you can get with an MMO without having an economic fiasco.

While you pretty much covered everything nicely, I do need to point out that the MMO genre isn't necessarily dying, but rather, it's just changing its weight distribution a bit. The MMO genre is pretty broad, and includes facebook/mobile style multi-player games which are far cheaper to produce and still turn respectable profits. It wouldn't surprise me to see the production cost vs profits ratio of facebook/mobile MMOs absolutely towering over the traditional 3D open-world MMOs, given how much more expensive the latter is to develop.​​

flyingfinn

Last time i tested Valiance's alpha was years ago. And it seems it still in same stage.
Guided alpha, public alpha. it's still alpha...
So you can declare what you declare.
Lets talk about these "games" when they're in beta. That must be in next 3-5 years.
And you got 1 thing right. Looming. That's all those game's are doing. Past, what 3 years? Or is it more.

championshewolf

5000 users, especially in video games and MMOs, is not even considered niche. A big AAA MMO, that would be an abject failure.

kidrad

Well you've all clearly made up your mind. Which I guess debunks my original claim about this game being dead. If it has die hard fans like this, I suppose it is doing pretty good. I am definitely watching these new projects with interest, and hope they can provide a fun experience. I was pretty bored with CO when I played it, but perhaps I'll give it another shot since some said it is being updated. I do think it would be interesting if at least one of these indie developers was successful. It is quite a unique situation for sure, and even though the fan base is small, I think it does have some potential. Just my take on it, I'm sure you will all disagree.

jaazaniah1

Huh? You haven't even played the game lately and you are claiming that it is basically dead in the water. That pretty much disqualifies anything you have said here. Try and do a bit more research before making such pronouncements.

nepht

LOL@facebook

championshewolf

I am amused that every time this subject comes up (my suspicion it's the same troll every time with a new account even, like the one last year that said Valiance would be launching before the end of 2016) that when the facts as they actually are, are presented in full to the people claiming these games will be the new age revolution or whatever, they decide it's better to call the people playing the actual game that's running idiots in their long hand way, because we present actual facts especially with how long these games have been in production, how small said fan base actually is, and why the original game failed to begin with that was not even remotely tied to the rampant conspiracy theories that many of the former butthurt CoH crowd believe.

spinnytop

kidrad#5290 said:

The game is clearly already struggling from low user count. One game (Valiance Online) has started an investor alpha at the beginning of this month

That's all I needed to hear to bail on this thread. *tips hat, slides out the door with funny cartoon noise and smoke poof*

jonsills

As for dying, well, everything is dying. You're dying, I'm dying, the Sun is dying. Barring some bizarre catastrophe, the Sun has somewhere around five to eight billion years left before it runs out of hydrogen to fuse and expands into its red giant stage, but it's still finite.

Sure, someday CO will go away. From what I can see, that's not going to be soon. Kidrad, on the other hand, appears to be gone already, so...

kidrad

Good one...

catstarsto

For the record, champions online does need to be patched up some and some improvements...


But I dont consider it a relic or by any means ready to be discarded!


There is still potential and fun to be had here, it deserves its rightful place in the MMO world!!

^champions Online is cryptics "scotty", they've thrown their worst treatment at it and its still alive and a fun game!!

catstarsto

gradii said:

OK, Fact number 1, VO has more people working on it than CO does, and by that I mean at least twice as many people if not more.



Fact number 2, OP, this is the WORST place to mention alternative games in development as whoever remains here is a super CO hardliner who WILL not be convinced to believe that another game can ever take the (pathetic as it is) spot CO has now or surpass it.​​

well, there is also the fact i put a lot of time and money into the game already and didnt want to drop everything to run to some new place, where id have to start all over again (like Humphrey with the fish)

ealford1985

gradii said:

OK, Fact number 1, VO has more people working on it than CO does, and by that I mean at least twice as many people if not more.



Fact number 2, OP, this is the WORST place to mention alternative games in development as whoever remains here is a super CO hardliner who WILL not be convinced to believe that another game can ever take the (pathetic as it is) spot CO has now or surpass it.​​

Please go find me that game that can... I'll wait.

You find one better than CO, I'll play it. You find one like CoX, never.

championshewolf

gradii said:

OK, Fact number 1, VO has more people working on it than CO does, and by that I mean at least twice as many people if not more.



Fact number 2, OP, this is the WORST place to mention alternative games in development as whoever remains here is a super CO hardliner who WILL not be convinced to believe that another game can ever take the (pathetic as it is) spot CO has now or surpass it.​​

Well for your fact number 1, all of them are amateurs working on a game part time. In short even if it were true they had more people than CO has working on it, the amount of time they are putting in is probably a fraction of the time that CO devs are actually putting in.

As for your fact number 2, as usual, you are dead wrong. We are not Co hardliners, just most of us have been around long enough to have seen these type of fan projects before, not to mention how little they've actually accomplished in a longer time frame than they actually promised. So, it has little to do with being a hardliner and more of a realist to the situation. I know you like to pretend you are some MMO guru that knows more than the combined knowledge of the development world, but yea. You are often wrong.

kidrad

> @gradii said:
> OK, Fact number 1, VO has more people working on it than CO does, and by that I mean at least twice as many people if not more.
>
> Fact number 2, OP, this is the WORST place to mention alternative games in development as whoever remains here is a super CO hardliner who WILL not be convinced to believe that another game can ever take the (pathetic as it is) spot CO has now or surpass it.​​

Fair enough, learned that lesson the hard way. Thought at least they might be receptive to alternatives with prospects for a new approach, but perhaps I framed the issue poorly. Of course people will not respond positively when they feel on the defense. But then again, perhaps you are right that they are CO hardliners who refuse to believe that any other game could come along and be better than their beloved.

To be fair, CO does have a lot going for it. One of the best costume creators ever. (Still not better than COH) Some great combat and power selection. (Still not better than CoH) Some great story arcs and bad guys. (Still not better than CoH) So there is a lot of good that CO has going for it. But there is a good reason a lot of people are bored and disappointed with it. They've clearly given up on making pvp anything substantial. The gear system is nonsensical. There are no controllers or commanders archetypes (that I'm aware of). The overall aesthetic is way too comic bookey. Restricting access to archetypes. The list goes on. So I personally hope that we can do better one day. Who knows who will accomplish that. But again, unless they make major tweaks, it won't be CO themselves.

catstarsto

kidrad#5290 said:

The overall aesthetic is way too comic bookey.

"oi..."

ealford1985

I can agree CoX had (some) better things, one being the zones and how large they were but no way in hell are you going to say CoX had a better tailor....freaking mitten hands.

And one of the main reasons I quit CoX and invested all my time and money to CO was i hated hated hated the combat system in CoX. CO is more interactive and CoX was just click....wait..wait and repeat.

The problem with this thread and why it's a failure on your part is you came in with little to no knowledge of the game and the typical troll bait of "this game is dead".

I'm going to assume you are still stuck in Westside. You didn't like CO...and that is fine, a game should have your interest in the beginning. CoX had mine when I saw a binder of trading card like items in the game store...but lost it when I played the actual game (it should be fair to note it was CoV and still had the crap where you had to level just to get a cape).

There is not a single bit of enthusiasm on my part when I look at these new games, CoT is the only one that maybe I would try IF it ever came out...but these others are just jokes. I literally laughed when I saw Ship of Heroes. So for someone to say a game is going to topple something I've played more than any other game in my life...when they all look like straight up dog **** and look in no way even close to being ready, is a joke.

markhawkman

championshewolf said:

As for your fact number 2, as usual, you are dead wrong. We are not Co hardliners, just most of us have been around long enough to have seen these type of fan projects before, not to mention how little they've actually accomplished in a longer time frame than they actually promised. So, it has little to do with being a hardliner and more of a realist to the situation. I know you like to pretend you are some MMO guru that knows more than the combined knowledge of the development world, but yea. You are often wrong.

YEah, I play STO more than CO, I'm rather lazy in the way I do builds simply because of the time it'd take to do them "right".

markhawkman

bluhman said:

Every single time one of the CoX successors is brought up I'm always curious about what developments have taken place since I last heard of them. For me it was maybe about... 6 or 7 months ago?

Somehow I'm always disappointed, though. The superhero genre is all about mayhem and punching stuff through brick walls and vans, lifting objects with your mind, freakin' destroying cities with massive battles.

Yes, THIS is what was soooo satisfying about Freedom Force! Battles actually had collateral damage. Also, I could walk into an enemy fortress and rip their crap up and throw it at them!

aesica said:

While you pretty much covered everything nicely, I do need to point out that the MMO genre isn't necessarily dying, but rather, it's just changing its weight distribution a bit. The MMO genre is pretty broad, and includes facebook/mobile style multi-player games which are far cheaper to produce and still turn respectable profits. It wouldn't surprise me to see the production cost vs profits ratio of facebook/mobile MMOs absolutely towering over the traditional 3D open-world MMOs, given how much more expensive the latter is to develop.​​

Yeah, you have to consider the ratio of dev cost to fun. Expensive to produce games tend to die off quickly due to being unprofitable.

jaazaniah1 said:

Huh? You haven't even played the game lately and you are claiming that it is basically dead in the water. That pretty much disqualifies anything you have said here. Try and do a bit more research before making such pronouncements.

He should fight Eidolon at least once in order to have a reasonably good idea of the current status of the game.

championshewolf

ealford1985 said:

I can agree CoX had (some) better things, one being the zones and how large they were but no way in hell are you going to say CoX had a better tailor....freaking mitten hands.

A bit of correction here; while CoX had more zones, most of them in Paragon were just dead space with no actual content. Furthermore with the exception of Independence Port, most of the zones weren't bigger than a mile square and would fit nicely inside a zone in Champions. You could have in fact fit several zones nicely inside a single Champions zone. But that is the crux with the lack of variety you tend to learn things fast, and with the faster travel powers in CO, you tended to cover even the much larger CO zones in short time frames.

kidrad

> @ealford1985 said:
> I can agree CoX had (some) better things, one being the zones and how large they were but no way in hell are you going to say CoX had a better tailor....freaking mitten hands.
>
> And one of the main reasons I quit CoX and invested all my time and money to CO was i hated hated hated the combat system in CoX. CO is more interactive and CoX was just click....wait..wait and repeat.
>
> The problem with this thread and why it's a failure on your part is you came in with little to no knowledge of the game and the typical troll bait of "this game is dead".
>
> I'm going to assume you are still stuck in Westside. You didn't like CO...and that is fine, a game should have your interest in the beginning. CoX had mine when I saw a binder of trading card like items in the game store...but lost it when I played the actual game (it should be fair to note it was CoV and still had the crap where you had to level just to get a cape).
>
> There is not a single bit of enthusiasm on my part when I look at these new games, CoT is the only one that maybe I would try IF it ever came out...but these others are just jokes. I literally laughed when I saw Ship of Heroes. So for someone to say a game is going to topple something I've played more than any other game in my life...when they all look like straight up dog **** and look in no way even close to being ready, is a joke.

You are so off base I don't even know how to explain it. Suit yourself, you'll feel like an **** when you are a latecomer to the SoH party.