Yeah thats pretty much a major problem right there.
Yeah I wanna be the hero "I" wanna be! D=
You can be the hero you want to be, it's just not going to be effective in every situation. I'm sure Superman isn't the Justice League's first pick to fight a magical threat. Of course he'd probably show up anyway and ignore the green orbs >.<
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him.
The reason people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him is because setting up an Eido run to have that run then fail doesn't feel like a reasonable return on effort. If the Eido fight would actually complete reliably, you'd see a lot more people being willing to bother setting it up.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I've been on a number of the secret set-up runs. We all very carefully plan our our strategy, people switch around toons to make sure we have what we need, and then the coordination is carefully executed. It almost never fails.
Then, we get to Eido, the 10 or 15 of us who went to all that effort to unlock him, we send out the call to everyone else. The zone fills up with builds that were specifically recommended against brought by people who do not have the least interest in paying attention the tactics require. The tactics are explained several times in long, excruciating detail. We then beat our head against a wall for an hour and end up with nothing to show for it. All in all, at least 2 hours for a final fail.
So, now it has become nearly impossible to even organize an OM run to open Eido. And I cannot blame a single person for not wanted to do it. When the general populace decides they want to start winning at Eido, maybe we'll pick it back up again.
I'm not saying Eido is too hard. I'm not asking for nerfs. I mean, I know he can be beat because I've seen it happen (a FEW times), but until the rest of the populace decides they are willing to actually work for a win, there is little incentive for anyone to do the work needed to open him up.
On the other hand, if the devs decided they did want the general populace to be able to scrub their way through Eido, the way they do for the other Cosmics, then they could easily nerf him down to dino standards and we would see him done just as often.
Honestly, I don't particularly want to seem him nerfed. What I would much rather see would be for his rewards set more in line with his difficulty, which encourage more people to learn to play better.
I can not agree with this enough. I have been on lots of failed runs and have yet to see an Eido completion myself, but I've seen us get so close many times only to have people lose focus or a group of newcomers rush in ignoring instructions in chat. I just hope that I get a chance to complete Eido once before he gets nerfed or new gear comes out that makes him trivial like the other cosmics.
Yeah thats pretty much a major problem right there.
Yeah I wanna be the hero "I" wanna be! D=
You can be the hero you want to be, it's just not going to be effective in every situation. I'm sure Superman isn't the Justice League's first pick to fight a magical threat. Of course he'd probably show up anyway and ignore the green orbs >.<
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him.
The reason people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him is because setting up an Eido run to have that run then fail doesn't feel like a reasonable return on effort. If the Eido fight would actually complete reliably, you'd see a lot more people being willing to bother setting it up.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I've been on a number of the secret set-up runs. We all very carefully plan our our strategy, people switch around toons to make sure we have what we need, and then the coordination is carefully executed. It almost never fails.
Then, we get to Eido, the 10 or 15 of us who went to all that effort to unlock him, we send out the call to everyone else. The zone fills up with builds that were specifically recommended against brought by people who do not have the least interest in paying attention the tactics require. The tactics are explained several times in long, excruciating detail. We then beat our head against a wall for an hour and end up with nothing to show for it. All in all, at least 2 hours for a final fail.
So, now it has become nearly impossible to even organize an OM run to open Eido. And I cannot blame a single person for not wanted to do it. When the general populace decides they want to start winning at Eido, maybe we'll pick it back up again.
I'm not saying Eido is too hard. I'm not asking for nerfs. I mean, I know he can be beat because I've seen it happen (a FEW times), but until the rest of the populace decides they are willing to actually work for a win, there is little incentive for anyone to do the work needed to open him up.
On the other hand, if the devs decided they did want the general populace to be able to scrub their way through Eido, the way they do for the other Cosmics, then they could easily nerf him down to dino standards and we would see him done just as often.
Honestly, I don't particularly want to seem him nerfed. What I would much rather see would be for his rewards set more in line with his difficulty, which encourage more people to learn to play better.
I can not agree with this enough. I have been on lots of failed runs and have yet to see an Eido completion myself, but I've seen us get so close many times only to have people lose focus or a group of newcomers rush in ignoring instructions in chat. I just hope that I get a chance to complete Eido once before he gets nerfed or new gear comes out that makes him trivial like the other cosmics.
You will be waiting a long time for any new gear whatsoever. Keep that out of your mind. I don't see that happening with the current lack of dev resources this game has.
Well, if Eido runs are going to be dependent on the average player base stepping up its game we should just call it abandoned content, forget about it, and move on. I'm not sure where the balance is between players retooling their builds and game play to make the devs happy and the devs retooling content to draw in more players and mkae them happy lies.
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him.
The reason people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him is because setting up an Eido run to have that run then fail doesn't feel like a reasonable return on effort. If the Eido fight would actually complete reliably, you'd see a lot more people being willing to bother setting it up.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I've been on a number of the secret set-up runs. We all very carefully plan our our strategy, people switch around toons to make sure we have what we need, and then the coordination is carefully executed. It almost never fails.
Then, we get to Eido, the 10 or 15 of us who went to all that effort to unlock him, we send out the call to everyone else. The zone fills up with builds that were specifically recommended against brought by people who do not have the least interest in paying attention the tactics require. The tactics are explained several times in long, excruciating detail. We then beat our head against a wall for an hour and end up with nothing to show for it. All in all, at least 2 hours for a final fail.
So, now it has become nearly impossible to even organize an OM run to open Eido. And I cannot blame a single person for not wanted to do it. When the general populace decides they want to start winning at Eido, maybe we'll pick it back up again.
I'm not saying Eido is too hard. I'm not asking for nerfs. I mean, I know he can be beat because I've seen it happen (a FEW times), but until the rest of the populace decides they are willing to actually work for a win, there is little incentive for anyone to do the work needed to open him up.
On the other hand, if the devs decided they did want the general populace to be able to scrub their way through Eido, the way they do for the other Cosmics, then they could easily nerf him down to dino standards and we would see him done just as often.
Honestly, I don't particularly want to seem him nerfed. What I would much rather see would be for his rewards set more in line with his difficulty, which encourage more people to learn to play better.
Understand the mechanics and adapt to them. If that means changing some of your powers (non-ATs) then maybe you should. And the things "I" think are important to consider are: a rez other(s) power and either a maintained heal or an AoE heal that you can use during red orb phase.
Obviously, most of us expect the healers to be doing the above things, but I carry stuff like that on many of my other characters because it helps. You don't need those on Main Tank characters, but all others should consider them. YOU may have a very survivable character already but everyone dies eventually.
I see it so often at the Green Orbs where you didn't have enough dps on it and it goes boom, wiping the group that was trying. And, then, a possible lone survivor runs off back to start dpsing on Eido, while 4+ players are face-planted. Be a "team player" and get them up before you run off. I don't care how uber or necessary "your" dps is, getting others up simply ensures the team is more effective.
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-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Well, if Eido runs are going to be dependent on the average player base stepping up its game we should just call it abandoned content, forget about it, and move on. I'm not sure where the balance is between players retooling their builds and game play to make the devs happy and the devs retooling content to draw in more players and mkae them happy lies.
Hence the name of this thread.
I'm not sure why there are not secret runs on Eidolon, himself. It's easy enough to organize a secret OM run to open him up, it seems like it would be easy to continue to secret run to finish him off, but then once we get there, the call goes out to the general playerbase. My guess is that the elites are actually nice people, who want to allow others to participate. Of course, then we fail, so. Or, it may be that there are not enough elite players on at any one time to do it.
Also, I am in no way advocating for secret runs, or saying they are good things, all I am saying is that it is the only way to get it done. That may be working as designed. The devs may have designed this content for only the best of the best, and I suppose there is nothing wrong with that. The only issue is, the rewards are not equivalent to the effort it requires. You really do have to have a top-notch build, top-notch gear and top-notch skills/knowledge to be able to complete the mission.
If the rewards were better, then perhaps more players would be motivated to tweak themselves out. But, really, it's only a little bit more GCR than you get from doing regular Cosmics. And doing 3 Cosmics per day gathers enough GCR to get all the top-end gear in a reasonable time. There's no actual reason to do the near-impossible.
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SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
if time v/s reward is such an issue, just make it give step rewards. down it to 1/2 - 2gcr, 5scr. 1/3 - 3gcr,6scr, 1/4 - 5gcr, 7scr. 1/6 - 6gcr,8src. down, the full reward. Or, make eido drop a unique currency like any of the various events, for gear a tier above justice
if time v/s reward is such an issue, just make it give step rewards. down it to 1/2 - 2gcr, 5scr. 1/3 - 3gcr,6scr, 1/4 - 5gcr, 7scr. 1/6 - 6gcr,8src. down, the full reward. Or, make eido drop a unique currency like any of the various events, for gear a tier above justice
I doubt they are going a tier above justice any time soon.
if time v/s reward is such an issue, just make it give step rewards. down it to 1/2 - 2gcr, 5scr. 1/3 - 3gcr,6scr, 1/4 - 5gcr, 7scr. 1/6 - 6gcr,8src. down, the full reward. Or, make eido drop a unique currency like any of the various events, for gear a tier above justice
I doubt they are going a tier above justice any time soon.
Well it is quite needed, since co lacks any progession once you get justice or equivalents. As stated previously, there is no 'reward' to doing eido because there is no progression - which is one of the key drivers of getting people to do new(harder) content in innumerous games. Also regarding the eido specific currency, do you believe as many would do the events if you could get everything from scr and g's? The currencies exist to get people to play them. Everyone is level 40 because there is progression from lv6. A fair portion does cosmics because there is progression from merc/heroic etc. Nobody does eido because he is 'harder' than everything else, but gives effectively the same reward as something much more accomodating like Kiga gives. People only did it in the past because it was relatively easy and *cough* didn't particularly need *taboo* properly optimized/synergized builds, strategies, coordination *cough*. Which similarly bodes for the qwz, there is no compelling reason to do it, especially since the DRA om update, for that steady stream of scr. I am willing to bet 5g, if there was so, it wouldn't be as empty as it is.
Well it is quite needed, since co lacks any progession once you get justice or equivalents.
Sure it does. Other than other classes of equipment upgrade, there's altitis and unlocks. The reason Eido isn't run isn't because of the rewards, it's because people got tired of failing.
Not denying that, though if there were true progression, aka stronger gear, levels beyond 40, more powers/adv points to utilize etc obtainable through eido only, people wouldn't get tired as quickly, and actually, properly try do it, in place of the current halfhearted 'wanting' to do it with om runs that don't materialize. This would be through *cough* optimizing and synergizing builds, coordination, strategizing. (You would say I don't know, I do winkwink, and it evidently isn't enough). Ofcourse it is nigh impossible to expect, but then again if there was the progression, it would be that little bit more reasonable to - despite the fails. Instead of just turning up and saying, what do I do, get linked the guide five times over, but still lay on the floor clueless. On the subject of alts, retcon 1 of 50+ alts away from full blown themed ultra fun hybrid, get the unlocks as important as water is to life, and retcon back again? no?
I don't really think I want to see gear progression. There are better ways to make something rewarding than just giving you bigger and bigger numbers imo.
That's more a question for the dev team. If a zone is empty (after there WAS constant use by a large number of players) due to dev changes to some of the main content, then it's a question that the devs need to decide for themselves. Unless changes are made players will probably continue to ignore the zone mostly. If that's fine, then it's fine.
To me it seems like a waste of resources, but then again I'm not a developer for this game . . .
Well... now you're basically making the "We shouldn't even be having this conversation" argument. Personally I disagree, I think it's fine if we ask these questions. We can have an opinion on it, and my opinion is that "far off" content is fine.
That's... not really true, except to an extremely limited degree. Yes, you can't attempt end-game raids until you have sufficient levels, gear, etc, but it rarely takes long for characters to reach the point of attempting the raids, and such content is usually gated -- if you can reach it, you're probably qualified to attempt it. The only requirements for reaching Eido are "level 40" and "someone, who doesn't need to be you, unlocks it".
Throughout the years it's been true in every MMO I've played. Even in MMOs where you could attempt content early if you were skilled enough, it was still only a very small portion of the population doing it. Heck, in some MMOs even quite a while after hard content was introduced it was still only a small portion of the population doing it. With how challenge-starved and severely overqualified some of the vets in this game have become, it seems entirely appropriate that we get some things like that.
Content should have people attempting it shortly after release (if there is a large amount of content, such as a level-cap increase, it's okay for some of it to take a while to reach), though it need not be immediately easy. If people aren't even bothering to try, there's a problem.
Well, I saw some people bothering just recently, in the time between you posted your response and today... so, maybe saying the content was problematic was a knee-jerk reaction? I know people claiming it's too hard will feel silly if it's back to near farm status in a week. But that's never happened before in this game...
Well, I saw some people bothering just recently, in the time between you posted your response and today... so, maybe saying the content was problematic was a knee-jerk reaction?
I haven't seen an actual Eidelon attempt in about two weeks (I've seen the OMs done, but people do them for reasons other than unlocking Eidelon).
Just curious how financially rewarding it is for a small game like CO to create content (difficult or otherwise) for a small number of players? Do those people put in a large sum of money that helps keep the game afloat? I really don't know. I'd put dev "content creating time" towards content for the customers putting money into the game.
Welp, taking a break with Eido, at least until something changes. Long string of failed runs, where we are generally not even close, just isn't fun enough to keep me going.
Welp, taking a break with Eido, at least until something changes. Long string of failed runs, where we are generally not even close, just isn't fun enough to keep me going.
welcome to the club... Ive taken it a step further, taking a break from the game altogether
Welp, taking a break with Eido, at least until something changes. Long string of failed runs, where we are generally not even close, just isn't fun enough to keep me going.
There was, actually, a successful run yesterday. It was basically private and at peak server time on a weekend...
Welp, taking a break with Eido, at least until something changes. Long string of failed runs, where we are generally not even close, just isn't fun enough to keep me going.
There was, actually, a successful run yesterday. It was basically private and at peak server time on a weekend...
I gotcha. The run I was just on was private, and also at peak server time. I know there have been successful runs. I just haven't been on any.
The first 4 or 5 runs that failed didn't get me down--I was getting better (at CCing orbs), and I enjoyed the challenging gameplay. Now, it feels like a slog, with little prospect of success.
Mind you, I am not complaining about difficulty. It's just that fun well has run dry. (I am hoping it will be refilled.)
There was, actually, a successful run yesterday. It was basically private and at peak server time on a weekend...
Well that was quick.
Day 1: "Impossible! Devs messed up!"
Day 2: "Oh we beat it."
Seems familiar .-.
Nah, it's already known that it's beatable. It just takes setup that's usually impractical, and loses the concept of an 'open world' boss because you want to treat it as large instanced content, not open world.
That's more a question for the dev team. If a zone is empty (after there WAS constant use by a large number of players) due to dev changes to some of the main content, then it's a question that the devs need to decide for themselves. Unless changes are made players will probably continue to ignore the zone mostly. If that's fine, then it's fine.
To me it seems like a waste of resources, but then again I'm not a developer for this game . . .
Well... now you're basically making the "We shouldn't even be having this conversation" argument. Personally I disagree, I think it's fine if we ask these questions. We can have an opinion on it, and my opinion is that "far off" content is fine.
I'd argue it's abandoned content. Not far off. /shrug
EDIT: And my comments are in general to the full zone, not just Eido.
There was, actually, a successful run yesterday. It was basically private and at peak server time on a weekend...
Well that was quick.
Day 1: "Impossible! Devs messed up!"
Day 2: "Oh we beat it."
Seems familiar .-.
Nah, it's already known that it's beatable. It just takes setup that's usually impractical, and loses the concept of an 'open world' boss because you want to treat it as large instanced content, not open world.
Yeah my read on the thread was "pain in the **** to setup and not worth the effort". I didn't get "impossible" from most folks in this thread.
Likewise, I know that it's been done since the last set of changes. I know it's been done a few times. Cool.
Unwinnable is not required for me to give up on content. If it isn't fun for me, my interest wanes, and I move on--that sometimes happens when content is too easy.
Yes, yes--I can only speak for myself. Some folks still really enjoy Eido. Challenging content can be set up for future use. I gotcha.
I am generally a CO fanboy, who enjoys endgame content, and often complains about events being easy, "autowin". For me to give up, that's concerning.
Since the real effort goes into organizing his unlocking, making the Eido fight itself easier won't count for much unless his failure rate at least matches that of the other Cosmics....aka putting him back on farm status.
People need both: content that is not on farm status + very very strong reasons to run it despite a high chance of failure. It's the only way for them to want to improve in any significant way.
People need both: content that is not on farm status + very very strong reasons to run it despite a high chance of failure. It's the only way for them to want to improve in any significant way.
That requires instanced content, not open world. As long as you can get rewards without being competent, people will do so.
Which goes back to my question. Can the Devs afford to create content that a relatively few people will play (and I have no idea if those are people who put money into the game).
People need both: content that is not on farm status + very very strong reasons to run it despite a high chance of failure. It's the only way for them to want to improve in any significant way.
That requires instanced content, not open world. As long as you can get rewards without being competent, people will do so.
People need both: content that is not on farm status + very very strong reasons to run it despite a high chance of failure. It's the only way for them to want to improve in any significant way.
I don't see any strong reason to play Eidolon with current success rate. In the past, it was for another source of GCR. I suppose there are some costumes or auras, and I got and sold a few of those.
Strong reasons for me would include:
* Significantly higher recog drop, like 15 GCR and 30 SCR * Significant G reward, like 100 G * Guaranteed chance of dropping one of the following per participant: Cosmic secondary Eidolon or Q-Zone-related aura or costume piece Eidolon or Q-Zone-related device or power unlock
I don't see any of these things happening, so I hope for another tuning pass to Eidolon, instead.
I don't see any of these things happening, so I hope for another tuning pass to Eidolon, instead.
Similarly I don't see a tuning pass happening for him that makes him easy enough to justify his current rewards. They are not much better than the other Cosmics, which have farm status success rate. I don't see the devs making Eido that easy.
The Cosmic revamp showed otherwise. Relative to Rampages, which was the "Endgame" before GCR, etc....Cosmics had a massive spike in difficulty. Much larger than Eido revamp vs previous Eido.
Now imagine if that massive spike in difficulty was not accompanied by awesome new rewards, but instead had just slightly better rewards than Rampages. Of course nobody would bother organizing for 30+ minutes and failing all those times until the fights got figured out.
As long as you can get rewards without being competent, people will do so.
That doesn't make creating challenging, fun, and rewarding open world content impossible. It makes it difficult. But not any more difficult than getting large groups of players to engage in instanced content in an old small game.
Between the OMs being basically mini cosmcis.. which you are forced to complete in 10 mins with ~10 people
The lag [a fair few people get] from his chard rain attack.. which kills everybody who ends up lagging from it..[usually a chunk of the dps players there] and then him summoning the DPS orbs almost always immediately afterwards.. meanings odds are they aint gonna get taken down in time..
the CC orbs hurting people when CCed [why is this even a thing?]
oh and his attacks being 1 hit kill [with literally 2 exceptions] and having no tell on most of them...
mix in the 30 player cap.. and you've got a cosmics which needs about 3 times the effort of the other cosmics.. and for what? the same level of reward..end result, nobdoy runs it any more
tl;dr too much effort, not enough reward to tempt people.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
The Cosmic revamp showed otherwise. Relative to Rampages, which was the "Endgame" before GCR, etc....Cosmics had a massive spike in difficulty. Much larger than Eido revamp vs previous Eido.
The vast majority of people at cosmics have not gotten better. This is in large part because there's no need to do so, Kiga and Qwyjibo need about five good players and everyone else just needs to avoid being total idiots, dino needs a few more and is not coincidentally the cosmic that gets failed the most (other than eido, which needs even more good players and thus gets failed even more).
Now imagine if that massive spike in difficulty was not accompanied by awesome new rewards, but instead had just slightly better rewards than Rampages.
The difference has to do with slack. People adjusted to a massive increase in difficulty because there was lots of spare capacity in the game.
The vast majority of people at cosmics have not gotten better. This is in large part because there's no need to do so, Kiga and Qwyjibo need about five good players and everyone else just needs to avoid being total idiots, dino needs a few more and is not coincidentally the cosmic that gets failed the most (other than eido, which needs even more good players and thus gets failed even more).
Enough people got better to make success rate be basically 100% for the 3 Cosmics. And no more than that. Makes sense.
You know, the one information people forgot to mention about the recent successful Eido was that the group of people that organized it brought their best character into the fight. Not the typical underpowered character that needs GCR/SCR. No, their best character, the one that doesn't need the GCR/SCR. This becomes greatly annoying when key players, the one that tends to make these run successful, are luck out of not being able to bring their secondary characters that need those GCR/SCR.
The difference has to do with slack. People adjusted to a massive increase in difficulty because there was lots of spare capacity in the game.
What do you mean?
It means that if you're playing at 30% and content doubles in difficulty, upgrading to 60% isn't that hard. On the other hand, if you're playing at 60%, upgrading to 120% is a low harder...
The vast majority of people at cosmics have not gotten better. This is in large part because there's no need to do so, Kiga and Qwyjibo need about five good players and everyone else just needs to avoid being total idiots, dino needs a few more and is not coincidentally the cosmic that gets failed the most (other than eido, which needs even more good players and thus gets failed even more).
There's this. Plus, it seems like most of them do not want to get better. Also, me agreeing with Panta so much is getting weird.
You know, the one information people forgot to mention about the recent successful Eido was that the group of people that organized it brought their best character into the fight. Not the typical underpowered character that needs GCR/SCR. No, their best character, the one that doesn't need the GCR/SCR.
Yes, this is an important note. Also of note is that people brought what was needed, not what they wanted to play. Several people swapped to make sure we had the proper mix.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
You know, the one information people forgot to mention about the recent successful Eido was that the group of people that organized it brought their best character into the fight. Not the typical underpowered character that needs GCR/SCR. No, their best character, the one that doesn't need the GCR/SCR. This becomes greatly annoying when key players, the one that tends to make these run successful, are luck out of not being able to bring their secondary characters that need those GCR/SCR.
excellent point. This loops back into my proposal of actual/real progression (not vanity stuff like costumes and unlocks ) for these players even more. It isn't a secret that the fight basically 'needs' a significant chunk of maxed out chars to even have a chance of doing it, who have nothing substantial to gain in return.
It also loops back to the issue that gcr and scr should be able to go into a common account (limited each day to the amount from the total of kiga, ape, dino, daily and eido). That way bringing one's best characters to a fight doesn't penalize your efforts to progress one character, who may not be your best or the one most needed at the fight.
It also loops back to the issue that gcr and scr should be able to go into a common account (limited each day to the amount from the total of kiga, ape, dino, daily and eido). That way bringing one's best characters to a fight doesn't penalize your efforts to progress one character, who may not be your best or the one most needed at the fight.
I agree. I've pretty much stopped bringing my Healer to any cosmic content as my main needs the scr/gcr now for the Phoenix Tear path, and the Healer is probably more useful 75% of the time.
It also loops back to the issue that gcr and scr should be able to go into a common account (limited each day to the amount from the total of kiga, ape, dino, daily and eido). That way bringing one's best characters to a fight doesn't penalize your efforts to progress one character, who may not be your best or the one most needed at the fight.
Though that doesn't solve the issue/OP of just doing ape and kiga and not really having to bother with dino, much less eido. Eido will still be abandoned because it is far easier to get 100k at kiga as a naked lv35 than it is to get anything out of eido on your best geared char
I have full Justice primaries, one Onslaught and two Armadillo secondaries. (Working on making it full Onslaught secondaries) All my mods are Rank 5 or above. I don't really have to defend much in alerts. I can actually fight OV's when I do block. I could basically solo the Destroids Rise Again OM before the revamp, and I've survived having aggro of the Mega-Destroids for an extended time after the revamp. (Thanks to Healers and Support of course, but I still survived)
All this amounts to exactly nothing in the Cosmic fights, especially Eido, so it's pretty hard -not- to feel disheartened over it all. Especially with the recent retooling.
I know people put literally years of work into their toons, to make them awesome, to make them heroes. Then the Devs decide to give them all a massive collective cock slap to the face.
I have full Justice primaries, one Onslaught and two Armadillo secondaries. (Working on making it full Onslaught secondaries) All my mods are Rank 5 or above. I don't really have to defend much in alerts. I can actually fight OV's when I do block. I could basically solo the Destroids Rise Again OM before the revamp, and I've survived having aggro of the Mega-Destroids for an extended time after the revamp. (Thanks to Healers and Support of course, but I still survived)
All this amounts to exactly nothing in the Cosmic fights, especially Eido, so it's pretty hard -not- to feel disheartened over it all. Especially with the recent retooling.
If it amounts to nothing in cosmic fights, the problem is not your gear. That's not ultimate gear, but it's plenty good enough to be an asset in any cosmic fight.
It means that if you're playing at 30% and content doubles in difficulty, upgrading to 60% isn't that hard. On the other hand, if you're playing at 60%, upgrading to 120% is a low harder...
Ok sounds good. So if you assume that Eido will have adequate rewards, then we, the playerbase, will have something to aim for.
There's this. Plus, it seems like most of them do not want to get better. Also, me agreeing with Panta so much is getting weird.
Right, because there's no need to get better if it only takes sufficient coverage of 3-5 roles to ensure success. So let's not make Eido be the same way. Let's keep the bar high but introduce incentive for people to improve.
"Most people have not gotten better" is not necessarily a problem. As long as enough people get better to make the content sustainable and consistently winnable then that's all you need. And that's what's happened with the Cosmics. No more and no less.
Right, because there's no need to get better if it only takes sufficient coverage of 3-5 roles to ensure success. So let's not make Eido be the same way. Let's keep the bar high but introduce incentive for people to improve.
The problem with the way Cosmic rewards work is that you don't need to be good to get a reward -- you just need other people to be good. If you expect everyone in a fight to be good, you do the fight as invite-only instanced content (or you get really clever with your scoring algorithm, but evaluating whether people were useful is not trivial).
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I can not agree with this enough. I have been on lots of failed runs and have yet to see an Eido completion myself, but I've seen us get so close many times only to have people lose focus or a group of newcomers rush in ignoring instructions in chat. I just hope that I get a chance to complete Eido once before he gets nerfed or new gear comes out that makes him trivial like the other cosmics.
Obviously, most of us expect the healers to be doing the above things, but I carry stuff like that on many of my other characters because it helps. You don't need those on Main Tank characters, but all others should consider them. YOU may have a very survivable character already but everyone dies eventually.
I see it so often at the Green Orbs where you didn't have enough dps on it and it goes boom, wiping the group that was trying. And, then, a possible lone survivor runs off back to start dpsing on Eido, while 4+ players are face-planted. Be a "team player" and get them up before you run off. I don't care how uber or necessary "your" dps is, getting others up simply ensures the team is more effective.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
I'm not sure why there are not secret runs on Eidolon, himself. It's easy enough to organize a secret OM run to open him up, it seems like it would be easy to continue to secret run to finish him off, but then once we get there, the call goes out to the general playerbase. My guess is that the elites are actually nice people, who want to allow others to participate. Of course, then we fail, so. Or, it may be that there are not enough elite players on at any one time to do it.
Also, I am in no way advocating for secret runs, or saying they are good things, all I am saying is that it is the only way to get it done. That may be working as designed. The devs may have designed this content for only the best of the best, and I suppose there is nothing wrong with that. The only issue is, the rewards are not equivalent to the effort it requires. You really do have to have a top-notch build, top-notch gear and top-notch skills/knowledge to be able to complete the mission.
If the rewards were better, then perhaps more players would be motivated to tweak themselves out. But, really, it's only a little bit more GCR than you get from doing regular Cosmics. And doing 3 Cosmics per day gathers enough GCR to get all the top-end gear in a reasonable time. There's no actual reason to do the near-impossible.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Adapted once and can't do so again?
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Adapted once and can't do so again?
not that interesting enough content to "do it again"
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Epic Stronghold
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The first 4 or 5 runs that failed didn't get me down--I was getting better (at CCing orbs), and I enjoyed the challenging gameplay. Now, it feels like a slog, with little prospect of success.
Mind you, I am not complaining about difficulty. It's just that fun well has run dry.
(I am hoping it will be refilled.)
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Day 1: "Impossible! Devs messed up!"
Day 2: "Oh we beat it."
Seems familiar .-.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Block timing explained
EDIT: And my comments are in general to the full zone, not just Eido.
Unwinnable is not required for me to give up on content. If it isn't fun for me, my interest wanes, and I move on--that sometimes happens when content is too easy.
Yes, yes--I can only speak for myself. Some folks still really enjoy Eido. Challenging content can be set up for future use. I gotcha.
I am generally a CO fanboy, who enjoys endgame content, and often complains about events being easy, "autowin". For me to give up, that's concerning.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
People need both: content that is not on farm status + very very strong reasons to run it despite a high chance of failure. It's the only way for them to want to improve in any significant way.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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Block timing explained
Strong reasons for me would include:
* Significantly higher recog drop, like 15 GCR and 30 SCR
* Significant G reward, like 100 G
* Guaranteed chance of dropping one of the following per participant:
Cosmic secondary
Eidolon or Q-Zone-related aura or costume piece
Eidolon or Q-Zone-related device or power unlock
I don't see any of these things happening, so I hope for another tuning pass to Eidolon, instead.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Now imagine if that massive spike in difficulty was not accompanied by awesome new rewards, but instead had just slightly better rewards than Rampages. Of course nobody would bother organizing for 30+ minutes and failing all those times until the fights got figured out. That doesn't make creating challenging, fun, and rewarding open world content impossible. It makes it difficult. But not any more difficult than getting large groups of players to engage in instanced content in an old small game.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
The lag [a fair few people get] from his chard rain attack.. which kills everybody who ends up lagging from it..[usually a chunk of the dps players there] and then him summoning the DPS orbs almost always immediately afterwards.. meanings odds are they aint gonna get taken down in time..
the CC orbs hurting people when CCed [why is this even a thing?]
oh and his attacks being 1 hit kill [with literally 2 exceptions] and having no tell on most of them...
mix in the 30 player cap.. and you've got a cosmics which needs about 3 times the effort of the other cosmics.. and for what? the same level of reward..end result, nobdoy runs it any more
tl;dr too much effort, not enough reward to tempt people.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
All this amounts to exactly nothing in the Cosmic fights, especially Eido, so it's pretty hard -not- to feel disheartened over it all. Especially with the recent retooling.
I know people put literally years of work into their toons, to make them awesome, to make them heroes. Then the Devs decide to give them all a massive collective cock slap to the face.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
"Most people have not gotten better" is not necessarily a problem. As long as enough people get better to make the content sustainable and consistently winnable then that's all you need. And that's what's happened with the Cosmics. No more and no less.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained