I'm gonna laugh at the clickbaity title later. For now, the facts.
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him. Nobody thinks 'oh, we can just go try and unlock him then try to fight him!' No. They wait for a group of people to do it, and when those group of people have no reason to, suddenly the coat tails are snagged from the people who wait, and suddenly Eidolon no longer exists. The win rate is fine, the difficulty is fine. What isn't fine is the fact that Eidolon is never unlocked because people are too lazy to unlock it themselves. I've ran a lot of practice runs for OMS in cosmic HQ, and not ONE of those people have tried to organize an unlock themselves. The guide to all of the bosses has been linked, and in addition to that, build advice has been given constantly. But, because people want their hands held, Eidolon ceases to exist unless a 'ghost group' as people call them unlocks it for them.
TL;DR, you have yourselves to blame for how often Eidolon spawns. Call me blunt, but yeah. That's about it.
The community is to blame because they don't try, no really, except of a specific group of players nobody else is attempting to unlock Eidolon
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
The last 6 attempts I've been in all failed, and after every failed attempt I am seeing less interest in trying the fight. Yes really the fault of the players that spending 6 hours on a fight without any reward is not motivating them.
It doesn't particularly help with the increasing brand of well...toxicity (likely borne out of frustration due to specific requirements for fights) that seems to be around within the community.
I've seen new level 40 players who want to join in Cosmics effectively get told to get gone because they are dragging everyone down...that isn't exactly an encouraging message to send out (yes, they were hybrid users).
This isn't entirely the toxic players fault, I think if some cosmics and Eidolon was less obnoxious to deal with, there'd be less problem.
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him.
The reason people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him is because setting up an Eido run to have that run then fail doesn't feel like a reasonable return on effort. If the Eido fight would actually complete reliably, you'd see a lot more people being willing to bother setting it up.
You guys need to have a little bit more faith in the playerbase you seem to be defending so ardently. People get better. Assuming that they don't is simply incorrect.
This discussion was had when the Cosmic revamp first happened. It was had again when post-revamp Cosmics were adjusted to be harder. It was also had when Eido was introduced and then again when he was adjusted prior to the latest set of changes.
Throughout all of the above there has been a common theme of people arguing to make these encounters easier because all those "poor new players"....who what? Are so incompetent that they'll never get better? Clearly not. All of those encounters, including the old Eido, have turned the Cosmics into cattle to be farmed for a steady stream of GCR. Average parse is in the range of 6-10 minutes for Dino, Kiga, and Ape and was 20 minutes for Eido....right before the latest changes he was actually faster to kill than Dino.
How did that happen? How did we go from "it's impossible" and "everybody is gonna hate this" to filling zones and obliterating Cosmics in a few minutes? People got better at the fights. Why'd they do that? Because remember the fights we're "impossible" just like this one. Actually if you compare freshly revamped Cosmics vs. Rampages the difficulty delta was much much larger than current Eido vs. current Cosmics. So why did people bother?
They had incentive and help to figure things out - aka to keep trying and failing.
New players don't need your pity. They need your help to improve.
You guys need to have a little bit more faith in the playerbase you seem to be defending so ardently. People get better. Assuming that they don't is simply incorrect.
It takes practice to get better. People aren't running Eido at all, so they're not getting better.
It takes practice to get better. People aren't running Eido at all, so they're not getting better.
Right. What they need is enough incentive to practice. It's what they had at the start of the Cosmic revamp when failure rates were super high and wins deserved celebration. It's what they need now.
It takes practice to get better. People aren't running Eido at all, so they're not getting better.
Right. What they need is enough incentive to practice. It's what they had at the start of the Cosmic revamp when failure rates were super high and wins deserved celebration. It's what they need now.
The cosmic revamps had gradual difficulty increases. The last round of Eido buffs was too much at once.
To be fair, though, i did about 10 tries on Eido since the revamp, and all failed. The first five or six I thought were fun, but then it became frustrating, and then kinda boring. I know I'm not bothering to organize an OMs run, since the likelihood of winning vs Eido seems too small. There are other things I'd rather do in game, and Eido rewards are either not attractive or so far off as to seem nonexistent (like a 50 kill perk).
I think Eido was made a bit too hard, and any one of the common suggestions (name the orbs, tone down their damage or healing just a tiny bit) would make a difference.
Throughout all of the above there has been a common theme of people arguing to make these encounters easier because all those "poor new players"....who what? Are so incompetent that they'll never get better? Clearly not. All of those encounters, including the old Eido, have turned the Cosmics into cattle to be farmed for a steady stream of GCR. Average parse is in the range of 6-10 minutes for Dino, Kiga, and Ape and was 20 minutes for Eido....right before the latest changes he was actually faster to kill than Dino.
This is primarily why I find it frustrating that no one ever tries to set up their own OMs. Of course it's going to seem hard if no one tries. I stayed away from Eidolon for the first month cause I was terrified of messing something up. I go to my first run as a DPS and I realized how silly it was to stay away. This whole stigma of 'it's too hard!' needs to be curbed. Like in every game something seems hard at first, then you do it a bunch of times, and it's easy. It's just how it works.
The cosmic revamps had gradual difficulty increases. The last round of Eido buffs was too much at once.
Well perhaps Eido wasn't meant to gradually increase, maybe the intent was that he was the "hard mode" cosmic and gradual increases would have never gotten him there, it would have just temporarily slowed us down each time with him never getting in the place he was meant to be. Maybe he was actually meant to actually stump us - us the players who embrace hard content, and be something that even we can't guarantee success for every time we decide to stroll into his pink cube.
In the mean time people will have to settle for 21 GCR a day until they're ready to tackle the source that turns that number onto 45*. Let's not forget, Eido is, by himself, 24 additional GCR per day. There's kind of a reason he should be more difficult than the rest.
As it is right now, Kiga is pretty much free: Everyone gets 7 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Ape, slightly less free, but let's face it on most days people get 14 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Dino not free, people actually have to do okay to get 21 GCR per day. So "do okay at cosmics" everyone gets 21 GCR per day ( per character ). If people want more than that on a given character then they have to go do Eidelon, or TA.
But it seems people are more likely to just wait for the next rotation and do it on another character because that's easy and guaranteed ( and because the game is so alt-unfriendly :'3 ). All you gotta do is wait a few hours, and that's a challenge anyone can complete ( except those people who got stuff to do before the next rotation rolls around ).
That leaves the question... is it actually important to get people flooding into Eido? Is it maybe a knee-jerk reaction to nerf him so we can get that "oh so important" popularity for that bit of content? Is it the goal of every single piece of content to have as many people doing it as much as possible as soon as possible? Or would that really just quicken the process of getting him on ezmode farm status "we're bored"? I think it's fine that Eido stays as is and remains this far off jewel that we have yet to obtain. He'll just be there, taunting us, letting us know that we're not as good as we think we are... until some day a small dedicated group starts to get him down regularly and then farms him for that extra bit of GCR. I think that sounds just fine.
tl;dr - Eido's sweet sweet treasure is for only the bravest of heroes.
PS - the fact that we even have vets saying "too hard" might be the sign that the devs actually finally managed to put something challenging into the game.
It takes practice to get better. People aren't running Eido at all, so they're not getting better.
Right. What they need is enough incentive to practice. It's what they had at the start of the Cosmic revamp when failure rates were super high and wins deserved celebration. It's what they need now.
The cosmic revamps had gradual difficulty increases. The last round of Eido buffs was too much at once.
Well perhaps Eido wasn't meant to gradually increase, maybe the intent was that he was the "hard mode" cosmic and gradual increases would have never gotten him there, it would have just temporarily slowed us down each time with him never getting in the place he was meant to be. Maybe he was actually meant to actually stump us - us the players who embrace hard content, and be something that even we can't guarantee success for every time we decide to stroll into his pink cube.
In the mean time people will have to settle for 21 GCR a day until they're ready to tackle the source that turns that number onto 45*. Let's not forget, Eido is, by himself, 24 additional GCR per day. There's kind of a reason he should be more difficult than the rest.
As it is right now, Kiga is pretty much free: Everyone gets 7 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Ape, slightly less free, but let's face it on most days people get 14 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Dino not free, people actually have to do okay to get 21 GCR per day. So "do okay at cosmics" everyone gets 21 GCR per day ( per character ). If people want more than that on a given character then they have to go do Eidelon, or TA.
But it seems people are more likely to just wait for the next rotation and do it on another character because that's easy and guaranteed ( and because the game is so alt-unfriendly :'3 ). All you gotta do is wait a few hours, and that's a challenge anyone can complete ( except those people who got stuff to do before the next rotation rolls around ).
That leaves the question... is it actually important to get people flooding into Eido? Is it maybe a knee-jerk reaction to nerf him so we can get that "oh so important" popularity for that bit of content? Is it the goal of every single piece of content to have as many people doing it as much as possible as soon as possible? Or would that really just quicken the process of getting him on ezmode farm status "we're bored"? I think it's fine that Eido stays as is and remains this far off jewel that we have yet to obtain. He'll just be there, taunting us, letting us know that we're not as good as we think we are... until some day a small dedicated group starts to get him down regularly and then farms him for that extra bit of GCR. I think that sounds just fine.
tl;dr - Eido's sweet sweet treasure is for only the bravest of heroes.
PS - the fact that we even have vets saying "too hard" might be the sign that the devs actually finally managed to put something challenging into the game.
Yes, but to me a constantly empty zone is a bit of a waste of development resources.
I'm all for Edio being hard, but I'd recommend at the very lease naming the orbs as others suggest and putting something else that attracts more folks to Q zone.
I guess the question is does anyone care if a recently released piece of content is constantly empty. How well does that bode for us getting any other content on that level in the future.
By the way, I'm not saying it's too hard. I like Eido's current difficulty, but the only reason I still show up to Eido is because I think it's fun. There just isn't much of a reason to actually farm it. Then again, if people did start farming Eido, it might kinda lose some of what separates it from the other cosmics. The fact that it doesn't happen every day makes it more exciting when it does happen imo.
On the point of new people needing more confidence, as Mahoff said there is plenty of help available. In my experience, it's mainly the people who are the laziest (i.e. wait for someone else to do the hard jobs) that do most of the verbal abuse and complaining. The same kind of people who continually zerg the dogs at Kiga, yell at people for dying instead of offering advice and harangue the CCers are the same people who complain things are too hard. That's what puts newer people off.
As for QWZ being empty, people do realise you get SCR rewards for dailies as well as Hermes? Plus GCR for completing 5 days worth? I've capped SCR twice in as many weeks doing those along with my regular dailies. And you can farm the OMs for SCR as well. If you can't do the dailies alone, get a group together. I very rarely see anyone asking for teams for it, yet so many people seem willing to do them.
Is Eidolon hard? Not really. The main problem is splitting dps between 3 green orbs. Only when we start missing those do we have problems. And that usually occurs when people refuse to attack them and just keep plugging away at Eido.
We can all fly as high as the dreams we dare to live. Unless we are a chicken.
> @skig201 said: > On the point of new people needing more confidence, as Mahoff said there is plenty of help available. In my experience, it's mainly the people who are the laziest (i.e. wait for someone else to do the hard jobs) that do most of the verbal abuse and complaining. The same kind of people who continually zerg the dogs at Kiga, yell at people for dying instead of offering advice and harangue the CCers are the same people who complain things are too hard. That's what puts newer people off. > > As for QWZ being empty, people do realise you get SCR rewards for dailies as well as Hermes? Plus GCR for completing 5 days worth? I've capped SCR twice in as many weeks doing those along with my regular dailies. And you can farm the OMs for SCR as well. If you can't do the dailies alone, get a group together. I very rarely see anyone asking for teams for it, yet so many people seem willing to do them. > > Is Eidolon hard? Not really. The main problem is splitting dps between 3 green orbs. Only when we start missing those do we have problems. And that usually occurs when people refuse to attack them and just keep plugging away at Eido.
Many of us offering critiques here are not complainers, but Cosmic regulars.
The three orbs, which you reference, is thr part od Eidolon that became a bit too hard. Coordinating attacks vs them is difficult. Labeling them or having different colors would be just the little push needed. Eidolon would still be a challenge beyond the other big monsters, but the success rate might go to a rate that would appeal to someone like me. I'd be happy to succeed one time out of three.
I'm not saying that Eido has to be a roflstomp each and every time, I'm not even saying he has to have the same difficulty as the other Cosmics. Right now though his attacks are just too much. He has portals, red crystals, green crystals, geysers/meteors, and whatever attacks he uses on the tanks, and I think I forgot something else. And he can just pump them out at a crazy pace.
A reasonable cooldown or pauses between his super attacks would be nice. At the very least.
Many of us offering critiques here are not complainers, but Cosmic regulars.
The three orbs, which you reference, is thr part od Eidolon that became a bit too hard. Coordinating attacks vs them is difficult. Labeling them or having different colors would be just the little push needed. Eidolon would still be a challenge beyond the other big monsters, but the success rate might go to a rate that would appeal to someone like me. I'd be happy to succeed one time out of three.
I was referring to people in game, not specifcally this thread. Apologies for not making that clear.
I agree the 3 greens are the problem. I even commented on the suggestion thread to distinguish them from each other. But even if they were, there would still be people who don't attack them or avoid one of them altogether because it spawned slightly in front of Eidolon. That is the main problem that I see.
I'm not saying that Eido has to be a roflstomp each and every time, I'm not even saying he has to have the same difficulty as the other Cosmics. Right now though his attacks are just too much. He has portals, red crystals, green crystals, geysers/meteors, and whatever attacks he uses on the tanks, and I think I forgot something else. And he can just pump them out at a crazy pace.
A reasonable cooldown or pauses between his super attacks would be nice. At the very least.
Each "summon" attack (Portals, Orbs) happen at a certain hp mark. If the orbs are not dealt with properly, they will heal him. This can often mean he heals back to a previous mark triggering that attack. This is where the suggestion to decrease the amount he heals is actually valid. The meteors start appearing at 1/3 hp and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) are also triggered at a specific hp level. This is why killing all green orbs and mezzing red orbs is so important.
We can all fly as high as the dreams we dare to live. Unless we are a chicken.
I'd guess that probably a lot of people doing endgame stuff know this (I certainly did). What interests me is that despite this useful aspect people prefer not to go there. Similarly, many people do not want to try to learn the OM fights to unlock Eido. Some people seem to believe that the missions are too hard, others that players are lazy. This also doesn't really interest me. The fact is that the content is now mostly unused. It doesn't seem like at present there is anything that is going to move a significant number of players to either farm it for scr, or try to do the OM missions to unlock Eido. Does this mean that the Devs need to step in and tinker with it again, or is it just to be left as abandoned content (like the OV system)? If the latter, hopefully the Devs will take lessons learned to heart when designing new content.
As for QWZ being empty, people do realise you get SCR rewards for dailies as well as Hermes? Plus GCR for completing 5 days worth? I've capped SCR twice in as many weeks doing those along with my regular dailies. And you can farm the OMs for SCR as well. If you can't do the dailies alone, get a group together. I very rarely see anyone asking for teams for it, yet so many people seem willing to do them. .
Tossing one coin in the 'more trouble than it's worse' pile. Both for the changes to the orbs, the OM coordination, and dealing with players
For the devs, more rewards really won't help here either, rewards are fine it's the setup, style and perk and again players. (Sorry want-to-be-helpful-people, the raid-baby-douche-bags, complainers and general make people not listen to you. PS: You usually end up sounding complainy not helpful)
One style point in particular no one pointed out .. separating the orbs. You've removed yet another cosmic where strong aoe (cones/burn through) is important. With ape harts on CC, and orbs separated, not one cosmic has an aoe component now. All single target.
Tossing one coin in the 'more trouble than it's worse' pile. Both for the changes to the orbs, the OM coordination, and dealing with players
For the devs, more rewards really won't help here either, rewards are fine it's the setup, style and perk and again players. (Sorry want-to-be-helpful-people, the raid-baby-douche-bags, complainers and general make people not listen to you. PS: You usually end up sounding complainy not helpful)
One style point in particular no one pointed out .. separating the orbs. You've removed yet another cosmic where strong aoe (cones/burn through) is important. With ape harts on CC, and orbs separated, not one cosmic has an aoe component now. All single target.
Don't you know? You have to throw out your characters theme and copy/paste a Cosmics killer build. No , originality at all here. CONFORM!!
At least, that's the idea I get when chatting in-game. Or their second best suggestions; "Learn to block o3o." or "Just git gud."
Don't you know? You have to throw out your characters theme and copy/paste a Cosmics killer build. No , originality at all here. CONFORM!!
At least, that's the idea I get when chatting in-game. Or their second best suggestions; "Learn to block o3o." or "Just git gud."
That is not a fair statement. There have been people organizing training runs both on PTS and live, and helping others with builds. There is even a full forums thread dedicated on how you can make a good dps builds for cosmics, and while you can't use any attack you want it's certainly not so restricted you can't have a themed build.
Ok people your all dumb. Seriously. Eddy is not that hard you just need to work as a team. Here is why people don't enjoy it.
1: The zone Eddy is in is almost hidden from players and you have to do some serious warp zone s**t to get there. 2: The zone is ugly. Its all purple and more purple with a slight dash of purple. 3: Too much boring set ups. Run around kill mini bosses to wake up Eddy. People don't want to do mini bosses they want to go straight to the main event. 4: The fight takes place in a giant fish tank.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Ok people your all dumb. Seriously. Eddy is not that hard you just need to work as a team. Here is why people don't enjoy it.
1: The zone Eddy is in is almost hidden from players and you have to do some serious warp zone s**t to get there.
2: The zone is ugly. Its all purple and more purple with a slight dash of purple.
3: Too much boring set ups. Run around kill mini bosses to wake up Eddy. People don't want to do mini bosses they want to go straight to the main event.
4: The fight takes place in a giant fish tank.
5. EVERYTHING IS FREAKING PURPLE
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I'd note that the changes that pushed this fight over the edge weren't to greens -- I'm not sure green hp even changed. What changed is that the red and meteor phases both turned into inevitable death phases for some characters.
Red Phase: if you don't have a pocket healer, you die. Because of target caps on healing, a significant number of characters will not have a pocket healer.
Meteor Phase: the delay on meteors was reduced, causing or revealing desync issues -- the server sometimes decides to kill you before the wireframe renders, with the result that it's impossible to avoid death except by moving randomly and hoping.
1: The zone Eddy is in is almost hidden from players and you have to do some serious warp zone s**t to get there.
There's a warp pad right next to Defender to UNTIL. Then you walk down the hall. Then you can use all of those worthless Hermes Rec for warp to Warzone consumables so you never need push 'W' so much again. How lazy as f--- do they need to make the journey?
There's a warp pad right next to Defender to UNTIL. Then you walk down the hall. Then you can use all of those worthless Hermes Rec for warp to Warzone consumables so you never need push 'W' so much again. How lazy as f--- do they need to make the journey?
A button to take me straight there or GTFO!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Tossing one coin in the 'more trouble than it's worse' pile. Both for the changes to the orbs, the OM coordination, and dealing with players
For the devs, more rewards really won't help here either, rewards are fine it's the setup, style and perk and again players. (Sorry want-to-be-helpful-people, the raid-baby-douche-bags, complainers and general make people not listen to you. PS: You usually end up sounding complainy not helpful)
One style point in particular no one pointed out .. separating the orbs. You've removed yet another cosmic where strong aoe (cones/burn through) is important. With ape harts on CC, and orbs separated, not one cosmic has an aoe component now. All single target.
Don't you know? You have to throw out your characters theme and copy/paste a Cosmics killer build. No , originality at all here. CONFORM!!
At least, that's the idea I get when chatting in-game. Or their second best suggestions; "Learn to block o3o." or "Just git gud."
You actually don't need to throw out theme at all. There really aren't a lot of build requirements for cosmics as long as you can dps, tank, heal, or cc. You can have almost any theme and still do one of those things well enough to contribute. You can even make a build that does more than one of those things, if you want. Not sure where people get this idea that only certain builds can do cosmics.
Yes, but to me a constantly empty zone is a bit of a waste of development resources.
Yeah, but many games have content that is "initially empty" and doesn't see much use until the player population is ready to attempt it.
Is CO really going to die overnight because there's some content we can't tackle yet? The devs put the time in... if they decide that it's fine that the content created by that time waits until players can handle it, is there really any harm to come of it? It's not as if their current or future development time is going to be put into it.
Again, does every bit of content need to be instantly popular and swarmed by players? Doesn't that just mean it will be soon relegated to "farm status, I'm bored"?
> @pantagruel01 said: > I'd note that the changes that pushed this fight over the edge weren't to greens -- I'm not sure green hp even changed. What changed is that the red and meteor phases both turned into inevitable death phases for some characters. > * Red Phase: if you don't have a pocket healer, you die. Because of target caps on healing, a significant number of characters will not have a pocket healer.
I'm pretty sure there is another thread somewhere around here where people were complaining about having too many Second Wind Devices. If you need some I'm pretty sure I have like 5 or 6 stacks of them in my bank. Maybe we can pass them out before the next run ^.^
I'll admit the meteor phase does get me quite often due to the wire frames not showing up in time. I just start running when I see everyone else scatter and hope for the best.
C'mon nepht you know you and caliga arent the only people on my friend's list. theres at least a hundred active players on there. Unless they all left since I last checked.
Sorry couldn't help myself that one was too easy. Friends and Foes all get their fair share of Nupht bulls**t. I'm evil remember.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yes, but to me a constantly empty zone is a bit of a waste of development resources.
Yeah, but many games have content that is "initially empty" and doesn't see much use until the player population is ready to attempt it.
Is CO really going to die overnight because there's some content we can't tackle yet? The devs put the time in... if they decide that it's fine that the content created by that time waits until players can handle it, is there really any harm to come of it? It's not as if their current or future development time is going to be put into it.
Again, does every bit of content need to be instantly popular and swarmed by players? Doesn't that just mean it will be soon relegated to "farm status, I'm bored"?
That's more a question for the dev team. If a zone is empty (after there WAS constant use by a large number of players) due to dev changes to some of the main content, then it's a question that the devs need to decide for themselves. Unless changes are made players will probably continue to ignore the zone mostly. If that's fine, then it's fine.
To me it seems like a waste of resources, but then again I'm not a developer for this game . . .
I think you need to define what you mean by "instant." Qzone has been around for a good many months now and is largely unused (though itwas used a fair amount for awhile). After how much time has passed can we judge the success of a piece of content, or by what other metric?
The Devs put time into things that end up not working right and then abandon development of it (e.g. the OV system), so I don't judge content by the time/effort put in.
Yes, but to me a constantly empty zone is a bit of a waste of development resources.
Yeah, but many games have content that is "initially empty" and doesn't see much use until the player population is ready to attempt it.
Is CO really going to die overnight because there's some content we can't tackle yet? The devs put the time in... if they decide that it's fine that the content created by that time waits until players can handle it, is there really any harm to come of it? It's not as if their current or future development time is going to be put into it.
Again, does every bit of content need to be instantly popular and swarmed by players? Doesn't that just mean it will be soon relegated to "farm status, I'm bored"?
Yeah, but many games have content that is "initially empty" and doesn't see much use until the player population is ready to attempt it.
That's... not really true, except to an extremely limited degree. Yes, you can't attempt end-game raids until you have sufficient levels, gear, etc, but it rarely takes long for characters to reach the point of attempting the raids, and such content is usually gated -- if you can reach it, you're probably qualified to attempt it. The only requirements for reaching Eido are "level 40" and "someone, who doesn't need to be you, unlocks it".
Again, does every bit of content need to be instantly popular and swarmed by players? Doesn't that just mean it will be soon relegated to "farm status, I'm bored"?
Content should have people attempting it shortly after release (if there is a large amount of content, such as a level-cap increase, it's okay for some of it to take a while to reach), though it need not be immediately easy. If people aren't even bothering to try, there's a problem.
For destroyer, these are non-negotiables really. From watching the last battle that came pretty close to winning.
1. When destroyer falls to just a sliver of hp above the last 1/3 marker, he's going to drop geysers. Everyone needs to pay very close attention to the hp, and anticipate that it's coming, and begin spreading out. Then, after every, single reds; where everyone is huddled up for heals, the geysers almost always follow behind. The second that the reds vanish, -everyone- needs to spread out, so they can avoid the geysers. Dying here kills your form stacks, that kills your dps, then that makes greens blow, then it's just a snowball effect that's almost impossible to recover from before he heals more than 1/2 to 2/3 back up.
2. When reds are near him, fire passive characters, pestilence characters, move away from the red orbs. Your passive is going to wake up the orbs nearby. The solution to this atm, at least for fire characters is to use ice form instead. Further on, most people think that attacks like lightning arc are single target. They're not. When a red orb is very near destroyer, and you're zapping away during this phase, you're actually hitting the red orbs randomly because that attack randomly arcs off to nearby targets out of your control. Attacking him during this time is perfectly fine, so long as you make ABSOLUTELY certain that the attacks you are using are indeed, SINGLE TARGET ONLY! Know your powers, know what you're hitting.
3. All characters, and I do mean, -ALL- characters, should have AT LEAST enough hp to survive one green exploding. Two would be even better. This also contributes to the snowballing effect of greens consecutively exploding.
4. All dps characters should have resurgence, or palliate. AND several stacks of TA juice heals, or some other, high potency healing device. When the triple orb sequence comes up, watch your hp very carefully, save these powers/devices for this time. If you feel that the next tick is going to kill you, pop your resurgence, then the juice right after it, this almost guarantees that you will survive this phase. The more people that survive the phase, without all of their form stacks falling off, the exponentially greater the chance that the next round of greens won't explode.
I assume the 'secret runs' are simply privately organized runs that are not announced in public chat channels?
If that is the case, then some vigilance would allow one to participate still, 'invited' or not.
When that happens, the runs fail and nobody gets to play Eido.
Most private runs have enough surplus capacity to deal with a couple of uninvited people, though if too many bad people show up (uninvited is not automatically bad) it fails. Safest option is to ask, and after an OM, check your score (it's not a very good measure of contribution for tanks or healers, but it's a reasonably solid measure for dps); if it's a lot worse than other people, you should sit out further fights (also, if you can't block Oubliette's devour essence, stay away from that fight).
The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him.
The reason people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him is because setting up an Eido run to have that run then fail doesn't feel like a reasonable return on effort. If the Eido fight would actually complete reliably, you'd see a lot more people being willing to bother setting it up.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I've been on a number of the secret set-up runs. We all very carefully plan our our strategy, people switch around toons to make sure we have what we need, and then the coordination is carefully executed. It almost never fails.
Then, we get to Eido, the 10 or 15 of us who went to all that effort to unlock him, we send out the call to everyone else. The zone fills up with builds that were specifically recommended against brought by people who do not have the least interest in paying attention the tactics require. The tactics are explained several times in long, excruciating detail. We then beat our head against a wall for an hour and end up with nothing to show for it. All in all, at least 2 hours for a final fail.
So, now it has become nearly impossible to even organize an OM run to open Eido. And I cannot blame a single person for not wanted to do it. When the general populace decides they want to start winning at Eido, maybe we'll pick it back up again.
I'm not saying Eido is too hard. I'm not asking for nerfs. I mean, I know he can be beat because I've seen it happen (a FEW times), but until the rest of the populace decides they are willing to actually work for a win, there is little incentive for anyone to do the work needed to open him up.
On the other hand, if the devs decided they did want the general populace to be able to scrub their way through Eido, the way they do for the other Cosmics, then they could easily nerf him down to dino standards and we would see him done just as often.
Honestly, I don't particularly want to seem him nerfed. What I would much rather see would be for his rewards set more in line with his difficulty, which encourage more people to learn to play better.
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The only reason Eidolon is as rarely spawned as he is is because so many people decide they don't want to bother setting up for him. Nobody thinks 'oh, we can just go try and unlock him then try to fight him!' No. They wait for a group of people to do it, and when those group of people have no reason to, suddenly the coat tails are snagged from the people who wait, and suddenly Eidolon no longer exists. The win rate is fine, the difficulty is fine. What isn't fine is the fact that Eidolon is never unlocked because people are too lazy to unlock it themselves. I've ran a lot of practice runs for OMS in cosmic HQ, and not ONE of those people have tried to organize an unlock themselves. The guide to all of the bosses has been linked, and in addition to that, build advice has been given constantly. But, because people want their hands held, Eidolon ceases to exist unless a 'ghost group' as people call them unlocks it for them.
TL;DR, you have yourselves to blame for how often Eidolon spawns. Call me blunt, but yeah. That's about it.
The community is to blame because they don't try, no really, except of a specific group of players nobody else is attempting to unlock Eidolon
It's not undoable, but the requirements are steep nonetheless.
I've seen new level 40 players who want to join in Cosmics effectively get told to get gone because they are dragging everyone down...that isn't exactly an encouraging message to send out (yes, they were hybrid users).
This isn't entirely the toxic players fault, I think if some cosmics and Eidolon was less obnoxious to deal with, there'd be less problem.
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
This discussion was had when the Cosmic revamp first happened. It was had again when post-revamp Cosmics were adjusted to be harder. It was also had when Eido was introduced and then again when he was adjusted prior to the latest set of changes.
Throughout all of the above there has been a common theme of people arguing to make these encounters easier because all those "poor new players"....who what? Are so incompetent that they'll never get better? Clearly not. All of those encounters, including the old Eido, have turned the Cosmics into cattle to be farmed for a steady stream of GCR. Average parse is in the range of 6-10 minutes for Dino, Kiga, and Ape and was 20 minutes for Eido....right before the latest changes he was actually faster to kill than Dino.
How did that happen? How did we go from "it's impossible" and "everybody is gonna hate this" to filling zones and obliterating Cosmics in a few minutes? People got better at the fights. Why'd they do that? Because remember the fights we're "impossible" just like this one. Actually if you compare freshly revamped Cosmics vs. Rampages the difficulty delta was much much larger than current Eido vs. current Cosmics. So why did people bother?
They had incentive and help to figure things out - aka to keep trying and failing.
New players don't need your pity. They need your help to improve.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
To be fair, though, i did about 10 tries on Eido since the revamp, and all failed. The first five or six I thought were fun, but then it became frustrating, and then kinda boring. I know I'm not bothering to organize an OMs run, since the likelihood of winning vs Eido seems too small. There are other things I'd rather do in game, and Eido rewards are either not attractive or so far off as to seem nonexistent (like a 50 kill perk).
I think Eido was made a bit too hard, and any one of the common suggestions (name the orbs, tone down their damage or healing just a tiny bit) would make a difference.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
In the mean time people will have to settle for 21 GCR a day until they're ready to tackle the source that turns that number onto 45*. Let's not forget, Eido is, by himself, 24 additional GCR per day. There's kind of a reason he should be more difficult than the rest.
As it is right now, Kiga is pretty much free: Everyone gets 7 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Ape, slightly less free, but let's face it on most days people get 14 GCR just for showing up to cosmics. Dino not free, people actually have to do okay to get 21 GCR per day. So "do okay at cosmics" everyone gets 21 GCR per day ( per character ). If people want more than that on a given character then they have to go do Eidelon, or TA.
But it seems people are more likely to just wait for the next rotation and do it on another character because that's easy and guaranteed ( and because the game is so alt-unfriendly :'3 ). All you gotta do is wait a few hours, and that's a challenge anyone can complete ( except those people who got stuff to do before the next rotation rolls around ).
That leaves the question... is it actually important to get people flooding into Eido? Is it maybe a knee-jerk reaction to nerf him so we can get that "oh so important" popularity for that bit of content? Is it the goal of every single piece of content to have as many people doing it as much as possible as soon as possible? Or would that really just quicken the process of getting him on ezmode farm status "we're bored"? I think it's fine that Eido stays as is and remains this far off jewel that we have yet to obtain. He'll just be there, taunting us, letting us know that we're not as good as we think we are... until some day a small dedicated group starts to get him down regularly and then farms him for that extra bit of GCR. I think that sounds just fine.
tl;dr - Eido's sweet sweet treasure is for only the bravest of heroes.
PS - the fact that we even have vets saying "too hard" might be the sign that the devs actually finally managed to put something challenging into the game.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm all for Edio being hard, but I'd recommend at the very lease naming the orbs as others suggest and putting something else that attracts more folks to Q zone.
I guess the question is does anyone care if a recently released piece of content is constantly empty. How well does that bode for us getting any other content on that level in the future.
My main issue with this isn't just Eido.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
As for QWZ being empty, people do realise you get SCR rewards for dailies as well as Hermes? Plus GCR for completing 5 days worth? I've capped SCR twice in as many weeks doing those along with my regular dailies. And you can farm the OMs for SCR as well. If you can't do the dailies alone, get a group together. I very rarely see anyone asking for teams for it, yet so many people seem willing to do them.
Is Eidolon hard? Not really. The main problem is splitting dps between 3 green orbs. Only when we start missing those do we have problems. And that usually occurs when people refuse to attack them and just keep plugging away at Eido.
Unless we are a chicken.
> On the point of new people needing more confidence, as Mahoff said there is plenty of help available. In my experience, it's mainly the people who are the laziest (i.e. wait for someone else to do the hard jobs) that do most of the verbal abuse and complaining. The same kind of people who continually zerg the dogs at Kiga, yell at people for dying instead of offering advice and harangue the CCers are the same people who complain things are too hard. That's what puts newer people off.
>
> As for QWZ being empty, people do realise you get SCR rewards for dailies as well as Hermes? Plus GCR for completing 5 days worth? I've capped SCR twice in as many weeks doing those along with my regular dailies. And you can farm the OMs for SCR as well. If you can't do the dailies alone, get a group together. I very rarely see anyone asking for teams for it, yet so many people seem willing to do them.
>
> Is Eidolon hard? Not really. The main problem is splitting dps between 3 green orbs. Only when we start missing those do we have problems. And that usually occurs when people refuse to attack them and just keep plugging away at Eido.
Many of us offering critiques here are not complainers, but Cosmic regulars.
The three orbs, which you reference, is thr part od Eidolon that became a bit too hard. Coordinating attacks vs them is difficult. Labeling them or having different colors would be just the little push needed. Eidolon would still be a challenge beyond the other big monsters, but the success rate might go to a rate that would appeal to someone like me. I'd be happy to succeed one time out of three.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
A reasonable cooldown or pauses between his super attacks would be nice. At the very least.
I agree the 3 greens are the problem. I even commented on the suggestion thread to distinguish them from each other. But even if they were, there would still be people who don't attack them or avoid one of them altogether because it spawned slightly in front of Eidolon. That is the main problem that I see.
Each "summon" attack (Portals, Orbs) happen at a certain hp mark. If the orbs are not dealt with properly, they will heal him. This can often mean he heals back to a previous mark triggering that attack. This is where the suggestion to decrease the amount he heals is actually valid. The meteors start appearing at 1/3 hp and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) are also triggered at a specific hp level.
This is why killing all green orbs and mezzing red orbs is so important.
Unless we are a chicken.
For the devs, more rewards really won't help here either, rewards are fine it's the setup, style and perk and again players.
(Sorry want-to-be-helpful-people, the raid-baby-douche-bags, complainers and general make people not listen to you. PS: You usually end up sounding complainy not helpful)
One style point in particular no one pointed out .. separating the orbs. You've removed yet another cosmic where strong aoe (cones/burn through) is important. With ape harts on CC, and orbs separated, not one cosmic has an aoe component now. All single target.
At least, that's the idea I get when chatting in-game. Or their second best suggestions; "Learn to block o3o." or "Just git gud."
1: The zone Eddy is in is almost hidden from players and you have to do some serious warp zone s**t to get there.
2: The zone is ugly. Its all purple and more purple with a slight dash of purple.
3: Too much boring set ups. Run around kill mini bosses to wake up Eddy. People don't want to do mini bosses they want to go straight to the main event.
4: The fight takes place in a giant fish tank.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
5. EVERYTHING IS FREAKING PURPLE
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
There's a warp pad right next to Defender to UNTIL. Then you walk down the hall. Then you can use all of those worthless Hermes Rec for warp to Warzone consumables so you never need push 'W' so much again. How lazy as f--- do they need to make the journey?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Is CO really going to die overnight because there's some content we can't tackle yet? The devs put the time in... if they decide that it's fine that the content created by that time waits until players can handle it, is there really any harm to come of it? It's not as if their current or future development time is going to be put into it.
Again, does every bit of content need to be instantly popular and swarmed by players? Doesn't that just mean it will be soon relegated to "farm status, I'm bored"?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
> I'd note that the changes that pushed this fight over the edge weren't to greens -- I'm not sure green hp even changed. What changed is that the red and meteor phases both turned into inevitable death phases for some characters.
> * Red Phase: if you don't have a pocket healer, you die. Because of target caps on healing, a significant number of characters will not have a pocket healer.
I'm pretty sure there is another thread somewhere around here where people were complaining about having too many Second Wind Devices. If you need some I'm pretty sure I have like 5 or 6 stacks of them in my bank. Maybe we can pass them out before the next run ^.^
I'll admit the meteor phase does get me quite often due to the wire frames not showing up in time. I just start running when I see everyone else scatter and hope for the best.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
To me it seems like a waste of resources, but then again I'm not a developer for this game . . .
The Devs put time into things that end up not working right and then abandon development of it (e.g. the OV system), so I don't judge content by the time/effort put in.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
For destroyer, these are non-negotiables really. From watching the last battle that came pretty close to winning.
1. When destroyer falls to just a sliver of hp above the last 1/3 marker, he's going to drop geysers. Everyone needs to pay very close attention to the hp, and anticipate that it's coming, and begin spreading out. Then, after every, single reds; where everyone is huddled up for heals, the geysers almost always follow behind. The second that the reds vanish, -everyone- needs to spread out, so they can avoid the geysers. Dying here kills your form stacks, that kills your dps, then that makes greens blow, then it's just a snowball effect that's almost impossible to recover from before he heals more than 1/2 to 2/3 back up.
2. When reds are near him, fire passive characters, pestilence characters, move away from the red orbs. Your passive is going to wake up the orbs nearby. The solution to this atm, at least for fire characters is to use ice form instead. Further on, most people think that attacks like lightning arc are single target. They're not. When a red orb is very near destroyer, and you're zapping away during this phase, you're actually hitting the red orbs randomly because that attack randomly arcs off to nearby targets out of your control. Attacking him during this time is perfectly fine, so long as you make ABSOLUTELY certain that the attacks you are using are indeed, SINGLE TARGET ONLY! Know your powers, know what you're hitting.
3. All characters, and I do mean, -ALL- characters, should have AT LEAST enough hp to survive one green exploding. Two would be even better. This also contributes to the snowballing effect of greens consecutively exploding.
4. All dps characters should have resurgence, or palliate. AND several stacks of TA juice heals, or some other, high potency healing device. When the triple orb sequence comes up, watch your hp very carefully, save these powers/devices for this time. If you feel that the next tick is going to kill you, pop your resurgence, then the juice right after it, this almost guarantees that you will survive this phase. The more people that survive the phase, without all of their form stacks falling off, the exponentially greater the chance that the next round of greens won't explode.
Yeah thats pretty much a major problem right there.
Yeah I wanna be the hero "I" wanna be! D=<
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Then, we get to Eido, the 10 or 15 of us who went to all that effort to unlock him, we send out the call to everyone else. The zone fills up with builds that were specifically recommended against brought by people who do not have the least interest in paying attention the tactics require. The tactics are explained several times in long, excruciating detail. We then beat our head against a wall for an hour and end up with nothing to show for it. All in all, at least 2 hours for a final fail.
So, now it has become nearly impossible to even organize an OM run to open Eido. And I cannot blame a single person for not wanted to do it. When the general populace decides they want to start winning at Eido, maybe we'll pick it back up again.
I'm not saying Eido is too hard. I'm not asking for nerfs. I mean, I know he can be beat because I've seen it happen (a FEW times), but until the rest of the populace decides they are willing to actually work for a win, there is little incentive for anyone to do the work needed to open him up.
On the other hand, if the devs decided they did want the general populace to be able to scrub their way through Eido, the way they do for the other Cosmics, then they could easily nerf him down to dino standards and we would see him done just as often.
Honestly, I don't particularly want to seem him nerfed. What I would much rather see would be for his rewards set more in line with his difficulty, which encourage more people to learn to play better.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.