(also, lol @ Kaiz still calling it 'Bullet Ballet' That and w/ BB having the wrong flags in its tooltip, and w/ a cd on Breakaway Shot, and no attention given to Lead Tempest.. I think we got a clear anti-gun kata agenda here, folks! Call in Alex Jones)
While I'm opposed to homogenization of powers in general, I feel like all energy returns should be something like "Scales with the higher of Rec or End, and to a lesser extent with your Primary Super Stat".
New Power: Composure Munitions offensive passive. Gives bonus damage to all technology powers. Small dodge/avoidance boost. Scaling knock resistance. Gain energy when you dodge an attack. This effect has a higher internal cooldown and smaller amount than other passive energy gains.
New Power: Sharp Shooter Munitions form toggle. Scales off of Dexterity. Gain a stack whenever you gain/refresh a Furious stack or critically hit a target while furious.
Interesting. These do bring something new-ish to the table for Munitions builds (and tech builds as well). And at least now there's a better reason to build for those Furious buffs.
Here's some ideas for what can be done with Parting Shot.
Suggestion Parting Shot Parting Shot causes you to backflip away from your foe, creating some distance between you and them while also firing unexpected shots at them. +Changed description. +Removes Snare and Root effects from you. Advantages Respite [2 Advantage Points] +Parting Shot heals you for each target hit. Scales with your Recovery. Take Cover! [2 Advantage Points] +Parting Shot applies or refreshes the duration of stacks of Defiant on you.
New power are still coming in but I still don't see my 'Machine Gun' anywhere. Come on Kai, not everyone wants to use the Gatling Gun. Also Kai, what is the reason for lowering the max target for Submachine Gun Burst? If the reason is because it's a low tier power than shouldn't other low tier AoE power be the same. I know some of you guys/gals gonna hate me for pointing this out but I just want to know the reasoning behing it.
And now I see Composure added to help address melee tech being more prominent, and a new toggle that uses on-crit mechanics, but nicely scales w/ Dex (and uses Furious, which boosts crit). The timing.. Big Brother, professional troll, coincidence, or lizard people? Maybe all of them at once! Better check my water supply.
For srs, some interesting changes here. Seems that TGM's paradigm has been changed back and its now a baseline single-target power, but lower dps and lower cost? It and ARs dmg are closer, though I'm afraid that AR may be a bit too costly even by comparison (seeing 22-23 activation energy, but 16 vs. 23 energy per tick, which is a pretty big difference imo). The tooltip for ranking AR also seems to have old info in it? Its a bit confusing, but its late and maybe the obv poisoned water I'm drinking must be kicking in.
Flamethrower's cost is also prob a bit too high for its dps, and also considering its a bit narrower than ur typical 45-degree ranged cone AoE. Also, thanks for making Burst Shot charge-able (can work w/ things like Avenger Mastery, and gives you a way to stack ranged toggles w/ it if something is in ur face). And holy hell, dat anim for Execution Shot..
Will have less scattered thoughts when I can test things more and am not distracted by other games :x but wooo
Did this subsequently lower the energy cost? Would make sense but I don't see it listed.
I don't have a 2GM toon at the moment, but checking a character with all stats at 5: PTS: Cost 23/16. Damage 174 (hybrid role, 8% from stars) Live: Cost 29/22. Damage 180 (hybrid role, 10% from stars)
Parting Shot is a bit confusing. I'm not sure why it has such a massive cooldown compared to Breakaway Shot, which essentially does the same thing (lunge away + deal damage + apply some sort of CC effect). As I pointed out previously, even Breakaway Shot's cooldown is a bit much when you consider how zippy travel powers make everyone. On top of that, pulling oneself straight into melee with a lunge is more useful, as it's usually a simpler feat to move away from a target than into melee range.
That said, if Lunge-aways are going to become a regular thing for ranged frameworks (and in my opinion, they should) then it might be time to establish a precedent for them, much like how lunge-tos have basic lunges with 3 second cooldowns and special, extra-powerful lunges (Viscious Decent) with longer cooldowns.
I suggest using the same formula for reverse lunges:
Lower Breakaway Shot's cooldown to match basic lunge CDs and remove its AoE components. Evasive Maneuvers (without the threat wipe advantage) should probably receive similar treatment.
Adjust Parting Shot's cooldown to match that of Vicious Descent and give it AoE capability. Currently, waht it does isn't worth the cooldown.
This would help paint a clear distinction between the two, giving players a choice between a basic lunge-away with a short cooldown and a more powerful lunge-away with a bunch of extra bells and whistles with a longer cooldown.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Would it be too much to ask for a plan for powers? One that includes not constantly screwing around with stuff and wreaking builds? How many times do the same powers need to be changed? Why in the world are existing powers being drastically changed so much? This is all such a mess.
Increase animation execution speed for Breakaway and Parting Shot
2 Point Advantage for Breakaway and Parting Shot: Parting Gift: If used in Melee range, leaves a timed explosive on the target (Like Where's The Kaboom? Adv from Explosive Arrow)
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Dodge/Avoidance boost
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Stimpack
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Hobble: Adds Root and Snare, removes Knock
While I'm opposed to homogenization of powers in general, I feel like all energy returns should be something like "Scales with the higher of Rec or End, and to a lesser extent with your Primary Super Stat".
I actually really like this idea, although instead of "primary superstat" I'd say "the combination of all superstats." Forms (and even some passives) already lock players into particular stats, and that's fine. It'd be nice if the others could be selected more on the basis of personal choice.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Single target tgm does quite well, but it depends on targetting computer to do well (like pretty much any tech dps). Still could do with a few percent damage buff, even with TC.
TC (tgm r3)
Composure (tgm r3)
Also, I still don't see any good synergies for 100 feet AR. But at 50 feet, AR (r2 + adv) can now do better damage than tgm (r3).
Two Gun Mojo
Removed Nailed to the Ground advantage. Returned back to single target. Close the Gap: This advantage actually capped out at 28.5% bonus damage if you were 0 ft away from a target (which isn't terribly possible). It's been adjusted to hit its 30% cap at 7ft.
New Advantage: Turns the power into a cylinder attack.
GOOD its good to see TGM being single target again
It was a stupid idea to make it AOE when dual pistols have ALREADY 2 great aoe powers (lead tempest and breakaway shot)
AoE powers like that works for Power Armour but NOT munition
PLEASE make sure you adjust the cost and damage correctly, as well as the single damage SPECS
having to pick aoe specs for TGM was weird
also for Close the Gap... ehm... DEVs i hope you dont want to force RANGE DPS builds to take this adv and stay in melee range for the +30% bonus, because that's kinda defeats the whole point of being RANGE DPS
New Power: Relentless
Energy Unlock
Martial Arts Shared
Grants energy when gertting a critical hit against a wounded (bleeding, shredded) target.
Now scales primarily with Recovery and partially with Endurance.
Can now also trigger off of Open Wound and Deep Wound. Fixed a bug where Relentless was only applying to melee critical hits.
wait so this EU works with RANGE CRITICALS too?
Huh, interesting
Could it be one of the missings link between range and melee hybrid builds?
New Power: Sharp Shooter
Munitions form toggle.
Scales off of Dexterity.
Gain a stack whenever you gain/refresh a Furious stack or critically hit a target while furious.
Why only Dexterity? why not EGO as well?
The new forms have been incredible stingy with their stat requirements (im looking at you Particle Accelerator, you could use DEX or STR alternative stacking)
New Power: Composure
Munitions offensive passive.
Gives bonus damage to all technology powers.
Small dodge/avoidance boost.
Scaling knock resistance.
Gain energy when you dodge an attack. This effect has a higher internal cooldown and smaller amount than other passive energy gains.
New passives are always welcomed
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
2GM: - Noticed last night on PTS that the power's cost had already gotten a cost-discount from live, bigger this morning - Cost 19/14 energy (first shot, channel) on live and 16/12 on PTS (AoE), and now 13/9 on PTS (Single-Target) - Worked well with new killer instinct with basic Legion Gear + Vigilance + R7 mods - Concentration "nerf" barely affects 2GM now, on live it gave 2 stacks per full channel, PTS just one, still ok - On live I needed all 6 r7 EGO mods to make it work and keep channeling forever... - On PTS I could make it work with 2 EGO, 2 CON and 2 REC (AoE), or anything really (ST) even with the Concentration nerf - Love this change, normal 2GM builds viable again )))
Other stuff: - Multiple grenades for munitions are welcome, so many choices now - New Killer Instinct on REC is great for melee munitions, since no EGO means you can go with DEX and FoTT instead - Would still like an energy builder with a rifle weapon, so I don't have to dip into Devices' energy builder... - Merging all the snipers, shotguns, smgs and rifle skins would be awesome, so I can pick one weapon for all...
Suggestion:
Change Burst Shot to single target 100 feet. For 50 feet AoE with furious refresh and armor piercing, there is shotgun.
I complety agree
Consider Burst Shot is a BLAST power and it was changed to being able to be charge, its only fair to ask for 100 feet
Hell ALL blast powers are 100feet (except throwing blades), and since its a power used mostly for utility and not damage, it must be brought in line with other blasts
make it single target if you have too, we have shotgun for aoe now
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Very interested in the updates to munitions. It seemed like supernatural and magical stuff was getting the most attention. Being stuck in the powerhouse to figure out how to use the new stuff will certainly be interesting if costly. Flamethrower is going to be especially interesting as it thematically suits my character build. I'm going to have to say personal force field should get some attention though, as it's a power I'm going to ditch on respec for a dodge build when this stuff hits. It's just not nearly as useful as other defense powers w/o resistances or the ability to heal it in some manner.
The bullet beatdown changes are better, if one is primarily doing their damage through DEX rather than EGO. I used it for a short stint before these changes and found it wasn't entirely useful with its energy consumption, so that's a welcome change, but shifting the damage to pure melee seems to me as a slide more toward hybrid melee/pistol builds as EGO is now pointless with it. Overall I recognize the change as a more general skill, which I think was needed.
Big Iron: Charged, 50 ft range, high crit rate, chance for knockdown (20-100% based on charge) Sling your gun and fire a single, accurate shot at the target. Adv: Fan the Hammer- Remove the crit bonus, and change the attack into a cylinder attack that strikes up to six times (based on charge). The first shot will always strike the primary target, the others will strike randomly with miss chance based on range. Keeps knockdown effect.
Why don't Forms and EUs simply scale with your highest super stat? Energy management is boring. Picking out which powers you want to use is where people should be spending their time not trying to work out which carbon copy Form and EU stats work out the best for a build. Sharp Shooter is basically Chiller which is a ripoff of Concentration. Except that Chiller is easier to use than Sharp Shooter. Waste. Of. Time.
No one gets excited over a new Form or EU unless it fills a gaping hole where there is nothing. People do love new powers or gimpy powers being made good.
Just make some generic Forms and EUs for each power block and be done with it.
also for Close the Gap... ehm... DEVs i hope you dont want to force RANGE DPS builds to take this adv and stay in melee range for the +30% bonus, because that's kinda defeats the whole point of being RANGE DPS
It's a thing for dual pistols tanks, since they'll be that close a lot of the time.
Why don't Forms and EUs simply scale with your highest super stat? Energy management is boring. Picking out which powers you want to use is where people should be spending their time not trying to work out which carbon copy Form and EU stats work out the best for a build. Sharp Shooter is basically Chiller which is a ripoff of Concentration. Except that Chiller is easier to use than Sharp Shooter. Waste. Of. Time.
No one gets excited over a new Form or EU unless it fills a gaping hole where there is nothing. People do love new powers or gimpy powers being made good.
Just make some generic Forms and EUs for each power block and be done with it.
YES. I agree 100%. As someone who likes more unusual theme builds, I can't count the number of times where I had my powers picked out, only to stop and think:
"Okay, now which energy unlock and form will work with these powers without adding too much unwanted micromanagement?"
...followed by...
"Which stat(s) will I be required to take to make that form and EU work?"
...followed by...
"Which cheese power will I be required to take to activate these?"
...followed by...
"Which theme power(s) will I need to cut and/or replace, thanks to this EU and form's limitations?"
New powers are what I personally get excited for. Flamethrowers? Multiple grenade options? Now we're talking! As for a new form/EU? I'm only really interested in seeing if they'll offer more cross-framework flexibility than what we currently have. If they don't, then it's just more unneeded bloat.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Can we not have KI scale innately with REC and END, unless there is a plan to replace all of our slotted mods?
Why not have it scale with EGO or REC?
This is an incredibly awkward nerf just to make the new powers seem desirable...
Because if it scaled off Ego or Rec then people would just continue stacking Ego for it and completely ignore the Rec part.
^Truth. The complaints about the EU changes is that they don't scale with whatever the preferred Stat is (i.e. it's a Ranged DPS, ergo the complaint is that you can't maximize the EU by piling on the EGO). REC and END are supposed to be the Energy Stats (and perhaps INT to a lesser degree), so it shouldn't be surprising they're the major influencers for them.
But perhaps, to appease the complaints a little (and consideration for future updates to EUs) have the Stat have a minor effect to how it scales (in the same way the mechanics usually have REC to have a lesser effect than END).
Because if it scaled off Ego or Rec then people would just continue stacking Ego for it and completely ignore the Rec part.
So the idea is to standardize every single EU in game to scale with END/REC eventually? Thus making them a "required" stat?
Whilst some sets could benefit from that...others will not. It'll look incredibly odd for some sets to have weird energy unlocks...unless the idea is to enforce that energy management in CO should be something that players take note of, so as well as increasing the cost of some powers, reducing the scaling that energy unlocks grant by making them scale with stats which are "less desirable" means players will all "have" to invest in an energy stat?
I get that in some sets, energy management is easier than others...but I was of the opinion that with munitions...the low cost was in some instance intentional.
It just seems bizarre to almost force munitions style builds into a certain play style and possible stat make up in order to function as previous...makes (me at least) wonder at what more random changes we will see for other sets that are going to be fiddled with and added to.
--
On the plus side, I suppose this means I can get another shot at re-working my dual pistols character...provided we get character specific retcons.
Because if it scaled off Ego or Rec then people would just continue stacking Ego for it and completely ignore the Rec part.
So the idea is to standardize every single EU in game to scale with END/REC eventually? Thus making them a "required" stat?
It's pretty reasonable to say "if you want to optimize for energy, take an energy stat". I'm not particularly fond of energy management in the first place, but if you're going to have it in the game, the energy stats should control it.
Not sure what makes them weird energy unlocks. Also I would hardly classify these changes as random - they actually seem very methodical and targeted, and are part of an ongoing process to standardize various things. The idea seems to be to make energy stats relevant for every character. Not really sure how you think this is going to force anyone into a particular playstyle - playstyle is more about what you do, than what you stat. "Not statting energy stats" is not a playstyle, it is a statting decision that was a luxury of certain power sets.
"I want everything equalized" is not a good enough reason to break people's builds in my opinion. Adjusted dps a bit on powers doesn't stop you from playing your build and using the gear you've farmed/payed for, but changing stat scaling on something as essential as an EU can very easily do that.
"I want everything equalized" is not a good enough reason to break people's builds in my opinion. Adjusted dps a bit on powers doesn't stop you from playing your build and using the gear you've farmed/payed for, but changing stat scaling on something as essential as an EU can very easily do that.
It's not like people will have to majorly overhaul or replace their gear or build. They might have to slot a new mod or two, not a big deal. "Breaking people's builds" is a bit of exaggeration.
Bug
Where it happens: Anywhere
What happens: When Showdown ends, fully maintained or not, characters which go idle after the ability has ended do not return to their idle animation after holstering the weapons.
Bug
Where it happens: Anywhere
What happens: Incendiary Grenade's Tooltip of the Chemical Burn Advantage does not state how much the No Quarter Debuff affects the target.
Suggestion
Give Parting Shot the Stim Pack Advantage
Suggestion
Flamethrower could become less of a Fire Breath makeover. I would vouch for making the AoE a 5 Foot Cylinder instead of a 30 Degree Cone. In addition, maybe grant it more damage at a higher energy cost per tick. Since it is considered more of a Special Weapon, maybe the two should be able to compete. The vision being Gatling Gun reaches greater distances and has innate Armor Piercing while Flamethrower is more threatening/harmful at closer range and can DoT. At the moment, Gatling Gun's superior range and innate chance at a resistance debuff moderately overtakes Flamethrower's capabilities.
It feels awkward that what is normally considered to be Special Weapons (Flamethrower, Gatling Gun, Rocket) can be accessed sooner than the munitions staple Assault Rifle. Perhaps revisiting the tiers and overall strength of these powers compared against one another would be wise. I can personally see Assault Rifle sitting pretty at T2 or even remaining at T1 instead of T3 while the Special Weapons are indeed made Special Weapons accessed at T3 instead of T1 (Flamethrower) and T2 (Gatling Gun, Rocket). Assault Rifle does not feel like a special ability deserving of the T3 rank.
I held off until I saw more of what the Munitions Changes have to offer, though I do regret not making the last statement sooner. There could be many different ways to go about this, but I feel that as a munitions staple the Assault Rifle should really not be so close to the last thing you pick in the build. I believe it would be wiser to allow Assault Rifle to be the one to enable the other powers rather than the other way around. I still want to say to hold off a little more and make sure this is done right the first time. From here on in the post are suggestions that can achieve the above so Munitions doesn't feel as awkward as I believe it does on the PTS.
Suggestion
Assault Rifle being moved to T2, Uncompromising Advantage to Refresh Furious over the maintain instead of using it to add damage. Innately gains a chance to apply Armor Piercing to the main target based on the amount of Furious stacks there are on the player.
Suggestion
Flamethrower being moved to T3, escalates in damage while maintaining. Panic Advantage introduces a new mechanic to CO which acts as a type of Crowd Control slowing enemies and causing them to run away from their target and preventing them from attacking.
Suggestion
Gatling Gun being moved to T3. It deserves to be there as is.
Suggestion
Rocket being moved to T3. Remove the Cooldown, but require that the power be at least half-way charged -OR- Remove the charge-time and instead give it a significantly longer Activate Time while retaining the Cooldown.
What's the point on maintaining Assault Rifle now that the damage doesn't escalate and you still have a burst of damage at the start? If anything now it's a click power, since that first burst does more than the rest of the maintain.
Rocket Launcher feels weak.
Still no 100ft Furious refresh to help Assault Rifle, now that Burst Shot is a blast, it would be wonderful to have it on 100ft.
Killer Instinct: Change the stat to ego with rec secondary scaling, because as it is at the moment with it's rec/end scaling.. it feels less like a munitions EU and more like overdrive..but worse.. to the point where if you're stacking rec or end, why not just use overdrive instead?
Composure: "small dodge and avoidance boost" is a understatement, the avoidance and dodge granted are less than quarry, while doing the same damage, less than night warrior while doing only ~100 points less damage.. and as for the damage it's out-stripped by TC all together[cuz dat crit boost]....I STRONGLY recommend either buffing the dodge/avoid it grants to not be a literal joke or giving the passive something to make it worthwhile outside of a small bonus of knock resistance
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Not sure what makes them weird energy unlocks. Also I would hardly classify these changes as random - they actually seem very methodical and targeted, and are part of an ongoing process to standardize various things. The idea seems to be to make energy stats relevant for every character. Not really sure how you think this is going to force anyone into a particular playstyle - playstyle is more about what you do, than what you stat. "Not statting energy stats" is not a playstyle, it is a statting decision that was a luxury of certain power sets.
Sometimes, and what I am about to say does not necessarily apply here, but standardizing non standard elements does not always pan out well.
There are some changes which have been made which have directly made some things worse for no visible reason.
As was mentioned earlier by Sterga, it would be nice to have a statement as to what the bigger picture is going forward for CO's power sets, as it feels like some sets get major TLD (Tender Loving Development) and others are "standardized" into the ground.
That's my take on it.
As for these munitions changes, new powers are welcome, I will have to test these tweaks myself before passing any hard judgement on them.
Perhaps Composure could benefit from a stacking boost not only to dodge, but also to a stat, rather like Quarry's Audacity? DEX would be ideal, perhaps providing a boost to the chance of criticals to compensate for the damage being less than TC? It definitely needs a boost of some kind. At the moment it's definitely third choice behind Quarry, with all its options and boosts, and TC.
I have been testing out the new Munitions powers / passive/ toggle and the Relentless EU in the powerhouse and have the following thoughts.
1) Execution Shot. Don't like this power's animation at all. Belongs in Saints Row, not CO. It works, though. 2) Relentless. Now works with ranged powers, works brilliantly with Submachine Gun/Agression adv. There aren't many other powers in the Munitions set that cause bleeds, though, and none that cause the other effects that will proc the power. Would it be possible to add an advantage to Gatling Gun to apply Shredded, or to make Relentless work with Armor Piercing? 3) Submachine Gun. Still don't really get the downgrade in the number of targets. 4) Composure. See comments above. Still needs that little extra that kicks in later in combat. Quarry gives me dodge, stat boost to EGO or INT, advantage with healing, TC gives more damage, some resistance.... Composure probably needs to give a little more crit chance or a boost to DEX. 5) Sharp Shooter. Like this, works nicely, esp with SMGBurst. Description in the Powers window is all wrong, though, say it has an Enhancement which is buffing all manner of things (presume not so?) 6) Flamethrower. It's OK. There's a lot of powers at this level which are just OK. It targets five people in a cone, though, so why can't SMG? (sniff). 7) Bullet Beatdown. Or Bullet Ballet, is it? Still seems to work just fine.
Overall the new stuff is good but the set still feels as if it a needs quick, reliable Quickfire pistol power - low tier, chargeable, without the fancy dan animations, mechanics etc - something as plain as Straight Shot from Archery, with a single pistol. Pretty please?
Still not happy with the SMG nerf though. It's like forcing you to take Gatling Gun or Flamethrower if you want to hit up to 5 targets and SMG is just like a utility power just to stack up furious. I know there is 'Lead Tempest' but not all character concept/theme is a dual pistol user.
Still want my 'Machine Gun' power Suggestion Machine Gun/Spray and Pray(New Power tier 2) 70ft 5sec maintain, double damage per tick 45 degree cone AOE with 20% chance to knockdown targets 5 target max
Still no 100ft Furious refresh to help Assault Rifle, now that Burst Shot is a blast, it would be wonderful to have it on 100ft.
Minigun.
Listen to reason advantage now has a chance to apply fear and refreshes your Furious stacks.
I personally would have gone for Rocket to do that.
Gatling Gun*, but yes.. althought you have to hold that quite long maintain aswell as first apply the 3 furious stacks to be able to refresh them.
And I also would've gone for Rocket Launcher, a cooldown power which isn't doing much of anything right now, as it's tier-2 DPS leaves it behind the tier 3 powers.
I'm so incensed by the proposed changes to Killer Instinct that I feel obligated to say something about it. First and foremost is simply DON'T DO IT. I am not now nor will I ever be a fan of the cookie-cutter EUs; these are basically forcing us to take at least one of the energy stats. Is the operation of firearms so taxing, compared to powers in energy sets, that we must stat END?
The simple answer is no. If I am going to the trouble taking SS levels of END then I am going to run the elite powers that will most benefit from it--conflag, I'm looking at you. There is no way, even in the superhero genre that firing away with both guns, or any guns really, is anywhere as difficult, or requiring as much energy, as making fire rain out of the sky. My point is that the game ought to be consistent within its own setting, and some sets will be more efficient than others. This is not a bad thing either.
If you feel KI needs a change--IMHO it works fine-- then find a more interesting way to change it that will work well with the requirements of the set. Just imagine that you're making something awesome for the Bestial set, I'm sure something will come to you.
As for the rest:
1. No nice way to stack furious so that you can capitalize on ARs advantage. 2. Why can't SMG hit 5 targets? I would never have accused that power as over performing; it has always been adequate, but no better than that. 3. The new passive has a great name! (I can't get excited about anything offering dodge bonus since dodge was gutted. If I'm gonna dodge under the current conditions then it must receive total commitment.) 4. The rest seems to be providing more options and more flavor which is a good thing.
Suggestion Restore Submachine Gun to 5 targets. This power fulfills the same utility niche in Munitions as the Elemental Breath attacks do. Why should it perform worse?[/color]
-
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Seriously, turn Submachine gun back to max 5 targets
why is this 3 targets nonsense?
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Comments
Strange, it says Bullet Ballet
Returned back to single target.
Did this subsequently lower the energy cost? Would make sense but I don't see it listed.
-Sterga
-Ogre
However, I am unsure if the Dodge Chance and Knock Resistance offered by Composure is supposed to stay static upon ranking it up. Here's some ideas for what can be done with Parting Shot.
Suggestion
Parting Shot
Parting Shot causes you to backflip away from your foe, creating some distance between you and them while also firing unexpected shots at them.
+Changed description.
+Removes Snare and Root effects from you.
Advantages
Respite [2 Advantage Points]
+Parting Shot heals you for each target hit. Scales with your Recovery.
Take Cover! [2 Advantage Points]
+Parting Shot applies or refreshes the duration of stacks of Defiant on you.
For srs, some interesting changes here. Seems that TGM's paradigm has been changed back and its now a baseline single-target power, but lower dps and lower cost? It and ARs dmg are closer, though I'm afraid that AR may be a bit too costly even by comparison (seeing 22-23 activation energy, but 16 vs. 23 energy per tick, which is a pretty big difference imo). The tooltip for ranking AR also seems to have old info in it? Its a bit confusing, but its late and maybe the obv poisoned water I'm drinking must be kicking in.
Flamethrower's cost is also prob a bit too high for its dps, and also considering its a bit narrower than ur typical 45-degree ranged cone AoE. Also, thanks for making Burst Shot charge-able (can work w/ things like Avenger Mastery, and gives you a way to stack ranged toggles w/ it if something is in ur face). And holy hell, dat anim for Execution Shot..
Will have less scattered thoughts when I can test things more and am not distracted by other games :x but wooo
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
PTS: Cost 23/16. Damage 174 (hybrid role, 8% from stars)
Live: Cost 29/22. Damage 180 (hybrid role, 10% from stars)
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
That said, if Lunge-aways are going to become a regular thing for ranged frameworks (and in my opinion, they should) then it might be time to establish a precedent for them, much like how lunge-tos have basic lunges with 3 second cooldowns and special, extra-powerful lunges (Viscious Decent) with longer cooldowns.
I suggest using the same formula for reverse lunges:
This would help paint a clear distinction between the two, giving players a choice between a basic lunge-away with a short cooldown and a more powerful lunge-away with a bunch of extra bells and whistles with a longer cooldown.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Add a second stat to Sharp Shooter
Reduce CD for Parting Shot
Increase animation execution speed for Breakaway and Parting Shot
2 Point Advantage for Breakaway and Parting Shot: Parting Gift: If used in Melee range, leaves a timed explosive on the target (Like Where's The Kaboom? Adv from Explosive Arrow)
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Dodge/Avoidance boost
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Stimpack
2 Point Advantage for Parting Shot: Hobble: Adds Root and Snare, removes Knock
Parting Shot is unaffected by Targeting Computer
Parting Shot is unaffected by Killer Instinct
Two-Gun Mojo and Assault Rifle no longer work with Onslaught Gloves of the Sniper.
The description for Relentless still references melee attacks.
Execution Shot's base cooldown feels too long.
Refreshes all stacks of Furious.
2 Point Adv: Call It Faith: Dodge/Avoidance boost
2 Point Adv: Uncompromising: Applies or Refreshes 1 Stack of Defiant
TC (tgm r3)
Composure (tgm r3)
Also, I still don't see any good synergies for 100 feet AR. But at 50 feet, AR (r2 + adv) can now do better damage than tgm (r3).
GOOD its good to see TGM being single target again
It was a stupid idea to make it AOE when dual pistols have ALREADY 2 great aoe powers (lead tempest and breakaway shot)
AoE powers like that works for Power Armour but NOT munition
PLEASE make sure you adjust the cost and damage correctly, as well as the single damage SPECS
having to pick aoe specs for TGM was weird
also for Close the Gap... ehm... DEVs i hope you dont want to force RANGE DPS builds to take this adv and stay in melee range for the +30% bonus, because that's kinda defeats the whole point of being RANGE DPS wait so this EU works with RANGE CRITICALS too?
Huh, interesting
Could it be one of the missings link between range and melee hybrid builds?
Why only Dexterity? why not EGO as well?
The new forms have been incredible stingy with their stat requirements (im looking at you Particle Accelerator, you could use DEX or STR alternative stacking) New passives are always welcomed
- Noticed last night on PTS that the power's cost had already gotten a cost-discount from live, bigger this morning
- Cost 19/14 energy (first shot, channel) on live and 16/12 on PTS (AoE), and now 13/9 on PTS (Single-Target)
- Worked well with new killer instinct with basic Legion Gear + Vigilance + R7 mods
- Concentration "nerf" barely affects 2GM now, on live it gave 2 stacks per full channel, PTS just one, still ok
- On live I needed all 6 r7 EGO mods to make it work and keep channeling forever...
- On PTS I could make it work with 2 EGO, 2 CON and 2 REC (AoE), or anything really (ST) even with the Concentration nerf
- Love this change, normal 2GM builds viable again
Other stuff:
- Multiple grenades for munitions are welcome, so many choices now
- New Killer Instinct on REC is great for melee munitions, since no EGO means you can go with DEX and FoTT instead
- Would still like an energy builder with a rifle weapon, so I don't have to dip into Devices' energy builder...
- Merging all the snipers, shotguns, smgs and rifle skins would be awesome, so I can pick one weapon for all...
Change Burst Shot to single target 100 feet. For 50 feet AoE with furious refresh and armor piercing, there is shotgun.
Consider Burst Shot is a BLAST power and it was changed to being able to be charge, its only fair to ask for 100 feet
Hell ALL blast powers are 100feet (except throwing blades), and since its a power used mostly for utility and not damage, it must be brought in line with other blasts
make it single target if you have too, we have shotgun for aoe now
The bullet beatdown changes are better, if one is primarily doing their damage through DEX rather than EGO. I used it for a short stint before these changes and found it wasn't entirely useful with its energy consumption, so that's a welcome change, but shifting the damage to pure melee seems to me as a slide more toward hybrid melee/pistol builds as EGO is now pointless with it. Overall I recognize the change as a more general skill, which I think was needed.
Big Iron:
Charged, 50 ft range, high crit rate, chance for knockdown (20-100% based on charge)
Sling your gun and fire a single, accurate shot at the target.
Adv: Fan the Hammer- Remove the crit bonus, and change the attack into a cylinder attack that strikes up to six times (based on charge). The first shot will always strike the primary target, the others will strike randomly with miss chance based on range. Keeps knockdown effect.
No one gets excited over a new Form or EU unless it fills a gaping hole where there is nothing. People do love new powers or gimpy powers being made good.
Just make some generic Forms and EUs for each power block and be done with it.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Why not have it scale with EGO or REC?
This is an incredibly awkward nerf just to make the new powers seem desirable...
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"Okay, now which energy unlock and form will work with these powers without adding too much unwanted micromanagement?"
...followed by...
"Which stat(s) will I be required to take to make that form and EU work?"
...followed by...
"Which cheese power will I be required to take to activate these?"
...followed by...
"Which theme power(s) will I need to cut and/or replace, thanks to this EU and form's limitations?"
New powers are what I personally get excited for. Flamethrowers? Multiple grenade options? Now we're talking! As for a new form/EU? I'm only really interested in seeing if they'll offer more cross-framework flexibility than what we currently have. If they don't, then it's just more unneeded bloat.
But perhaps, to appease the complaints a little (and consideration for future updates to EUs) have the Stat have a minor effect to how it scales (in the same way the mechanics usually have REC to have a lesser effect than END).
Whilst some sets could benefit from that...others will not. It'll look incredibly odd for some sets to have weird energy unlocks...unless the idea is to enforce that energy management in CO should be something that players take note of, so as well as increasing the cost of some powers, reducing the scaling that energy unlocks grant by making them scale with stats which are "less desirable" means players will all "have" to invest in an energy stat?
I get that in some sets, energy management is easier than others...but I was of the opinion that with munitions...the low cost was in some instance intentional.
It just seems bizarre to almost force munitions style builds into a certain play style and possible stat make up in order to function as previous...makes (me at least) wonder at what more random changes we will see for other sets that are going to be fiddled with and added to.
--
On the plus side, I suppose this means I can get another shot at re-working my dual pistols character...provided we get character specific retcons.
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Where it happens: Anywhere
What happens: When Showdown ends, fully maintained or not, characters which go idle after the ability has ended do not return to their idle animation after holstering the weapons.
Bug
Where it happens: Anywhere
What happens: Incendiary Grenade's Tooltip of the Chemical Burn Advantage does not state how much the No Quarter Debuff affects the target.
Suggestion
Give Parting Shot the Stim Pack Advantage
Suggestion
Flamethrower could become less of a Fire Breath makeover. I would vouch for making the AoE a 5 Foot Cylinder instead of a 30 Degree Cone. In addition, maybe grant it more damage at a higher energy cost per tick. Since it is considered more of a Special Weapon, maybe the two should be able to compete. The vision being Gatling Gun reaches greater distances and has innate Armor Piercing while Flamethrower is more threatening/harmful at closer range and can DoT. At the moment, Gatling Gun's superior range and innate chance at a resistance debuff moderately overtakes Flamethrower's capabilities.
It feels awkward that what is normally considered to be Special Weapons (Flamethrower, Gatling Gun, Rocket) can be accessed sooner than the munitions staple Assault Rifle. Perhaps revisiting the tiers and overall strength of these powers compared against one another would be wise. I can personally see Assault Rifle sitting pretty at T2 or even remaining at T1 instead of T3 while the Special Weapons are indeed made Special Weapons accessed at T3 instead of T1 (Flamethrower) and T2 (Gatling Gun, Rocket). Assault Rifle does not feel like a special ability deserving of the T3 rank.
I held off until I saw more of what the Munitions Changes have to offer, though I do regret not making the last statement sooner. There could be many different ways to go about this, but I feel that as a munitions staple the Assault Rifle should really not be so close to the last thing you pick in the build. I believe it would be wiser to allow Assault Rifle to be the one to enable the other powers rather than the other way around. I still want to say to hold off a little more and make sure this is done right the first time. From here on in the post are suggestions that can achieve the above so Munitions doesn't feel as awkward as I believe it does on the PTS.
Suggestion
Assault Rifle being moved to T2, Uncompromising Advantage to Refresh Furious over the maintain instead of using it to add damage. Innately gains a chance to apply Armor Piercing to the main target based on the amount of Furious stacks there are on the player.
Suggestion
Flamethrower being moved to T3, escalates in damage while maintaining. Panic Advantage introduces a new mechanic to CO which acts as a type of Crowd Control slowing enemies and causing them to run away from their target and preventing them from attacking.
Suggestion
Gatling Gun being moved to T3. It deserves to be there as is.
Suggestion
Rocket being moved to T3. Remove the Cooldown, but require that the power be at least half-way charged -OR- Remove the charge-time and instead give it a significantly longer Activate Time while retaining the Cooldown.
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1 Point Flamethrower Advantage: I'm Always Hot and Bothered: Threat Advantage, stacks with Challenge
1 Point Gatling Gun Advantage: Gonna Have Me Some Fun: Fully Maintaining Gatling Gun applies 1 stack of Reckless
2 Point Gatling Gun Advantage: Aint Got Time To Bleed: +Damage Resistance per damage tick while maintaining Gatling Gun
5 Point Shotgun Advantage: Chew Bubblegum: Instantly kills any enemy tagged as Qularr, Gadroon, Elder Worm, or Lemurian
Rocket Launcher feels weak.
Still no 100ft Furious refresh to help Assault Rifle, now that Burst Shot is a blast, it would be wonderful to have it on 100ft.
Listen to reason advantage now has a chance to apply fear and refreshes your Furious stacks.
I personally would have gone for Rocket to do that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Composure: "small dodge and avoidance boost" is a understatement, the avoidance and dodge granted are less than quarry, while doing the same damage, less than night warrior while doing only ~100 points less damage.. and as for the damage it's out-stripped by TC all together[cuz dat crit boost]....I STRONGLY recommend either buffing the dodge/avoid it grants to not be a literal joke or giving the passive something to make it worthwhile outside of a small bonus of knock resistance
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
There are some changes which have been made which have directly made some things worse for no visible reason.
As was mentioned earlier by Sterga, it would be nice to have a statement as to what the bigger picture is going forward for CO's power sets, as it feels like some sets get major TLD (Tender Loving Development) and others are "standardized" into the ground.
That's my take on it.
As for these munitions changes, new powers are welcome, I will have to test these tweaks myself before passing any hard judgement on them.
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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I have been testing out the new Munitions powers / passive/ toggle and the Relentless EU in the powerhouse and have the following thoughts.
1) Execution Shot. Don't like this power's animation at all. Belongs in Saints Row, not CO. It works, though.
2) Relentless. Now works with ranged powers, works brilliantly with Submachine Gun/Agression adv. There aren't many other powers in the Munitions set that cause bleeds, though, and none that cause the other effects that will proc the power. Would it be possible to add an advantage to Gatling Gun to apply Shredded, or to make Relentless work with Armor Piercing?
3) Submachine Gun. Still don't really get the downgrade in the number of targets.
4) Composure. See comments above. Still needs that little extra that kicks in later in combat. Quarry gives me dodge, stat boost to EGO or INT, advantage with healing, TC gives more damage, some resistance.... Composure probably needs to give a little more crit chance or a boost to DEX.
5) Sharp Shooter. Like this, works nicely, esp with SMGBurst. Description in the Powers window is all wrong, though, say it has an Enhancement which is buffing all manner of things (presume not so?)
6) Flamethrower. It's OK. There's a lot of powers at this level which are just OK. It targets five people in a cone, though, so why can't SMG? (sniff).
7) Bullet Beatdown. Or Bullet Ballet, is it? Still seems to work just fine.
Overall the new stuff is good but the set still feels as if it a needs quick, reliable Quickfire pistol power - low tier, chargeable, without the fancy dan animations, mechanics etc - something as plain as Straight Shot from Archery, with a single pistol. Pretty please?
Still want my 'Machine Gun' power
Suggestion
Machine Gun/Spray and Pray(New Power tier 2)
70ft
5sec maintain, double damage per tick
45 degree cone AOE with 20% chance to knockdown targets
5 target max
Adjust Sharp Shooter to benefit Melee and Ranged equally
Increase Dodge and Avoidance granted by Composure
Execution Shot: Is It Not Just Mayhem?: Applies fear to primary target but other targets are unaffected
And I also would've gone for Rocket Launcher, a cooldown power which isn't doing much of anything right now, as it's tier-2 DPS leaves it behind the tier 3 powers.
I'm so incensed by the proposed changes to Killer Instinct that I feel obligated to say something about it. First and foremost is simply DON'T DO IT. I am not now nor will I ever be a fan of the cookie-cutter EUs; these are basically forcing us to take at least one of the energy stats. Is the operation of firearms so taxing, compared to powers in energy sets, that we must stat END?
The simple answer is no. If I am going to the trouble taking SS levels of END then I am going to run the elite powers that will most benefit from it--conflag, I'm looking at you. There is no way, even in the superhero genre that firing away with both guns, or any guns really, is anywhere as difficult, or requiring as much energy, as making fire rain out of the sky. My point is that the game ought to be consistent within its own setting, and some sets will be more efficient than others. This is not a bad thing either.
If you feel KI needs a change--IMHO it works fine-- then find a more interesting way to change it that will work well with the requirements of the set. Just imagine that you're making something awesome for the Bestial set, I'm sure something will come to you.
As for the rest:
1. No nice way to stack furious so that you can capitalize on ARs advantage.
2. Why can't SMG hit 5 targets? I would never have accused that power as over performing; it has always been adequate, but no better than that.
3. The new passive has a great name! (I can't get excited about anything offering dodge bonus since dodge was gutted. If I'm gonna dodge under the current conditions then it must receive total commitment.)
4. The rest seems to be providing more options and more flavor which is a good thing.
Restore Submachine Gun to 5 targets. This power fulfills the same utility niche in Munitions as the Elemental Breath attacks do. Why should it perform worse?[/color]
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
why is this 3 targets nonsense?
Parting Shot's "Predictable" advantage does not work. The power's cooldown does not increase, and it does not wipe threat or apply stealth.
BUG (cosmetic):
When activated while flying, Parting Shot warrants a trip to the chiropractor.
Screamin' Eagles! - When fully charged Rocket applies a stack of Furious, and refreshes all duration of current stacks.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.