Warzone is already extremely difficult without top level gear... add the various groups seperated by times zones and now it's become downright impossible. It's 4:20 pm ST and the Eido run we just didn't was very well balanced. But the massive amount of player deaths has become monotonous. Seriously Devs, ya'll need a wake up call to your game. Impossible and challenging are not synonomous!
So we did it. We did the OMs and fought Eido. Turns out all the doom was for nothing.
This is the thing about people saying, "it's all over!" before even trying to figure it out. People need to believe in themselves and the devs a bit more based on how much crying there was about Cosmics in the past and how right now they are on complete farm status.
The devs want you to complete this content with difficulty. Note that both "complete content" and "difficulty" are present.....if you're just going to argue for one part of that sentence and not the others then you're barking up the wrong tree.
When you see new changes, give yourself the benefit of the doubt and immediately assume something is doable until it is *proven* not to be. Then say, "how can I do this?". Once you start asking "how" then a lot of stuff becomes possible.
If you assume something is impossible from the outset then you will not get to asking "how". You'll just make it impossible for yourself.
If you could figure out how to do everything just by reading patch notes then it would definitely be pretty boring. Hold the kneejerks and give things a chance.
All these only highlight the need to stop making mechanic-heavy open-world bosses and instead, start putting them in lairs. Lazier, easier bosses like Clarence are fine, but when the mechanics and group requirements start getting this strict, it's time to give the group more control over who shows up.
I totally agree with the spirit of this post.
In this particular case, my own concern is lessened in large part due to how this encounter will likely be done: with smaller groups of players. In a small group the trolls, etc....are not going to be able to hide as effectively so it's less of an issue imo.
So the health of three bosses have been increased AND you can only take them down with a group of 10. Seems like Eido runs will be harder for the same amount of rewards, doesn't seem like a good change for me.
While I myself don't mind splitting up in 3 teams for Qliphoth OMs, it is wise to remind you that now instead we'll have numerous repeated roles (tanks and healers) that won't do much, as each OM team will need a couple few tanks & healers.
This means that either people swap characters, making them lose their spot, for a non repeated role, and/or that we'll have little damage and the final fight will take longer than it should, or even undoable due to the lack of DPS.
But as I said, I really don't mind splitting up in teams, just these implications or side effects.
Hmm... no wonder the devs were silent during the holidays. I wish the Q-zone changes were on the PTS last week so we could test them out.
Ahh well, I figured the OM farming wouldn't last forever; I have most of the kill perks. However, I do agree with others that have posted before me that it will be a challenge to ensure players who want to *successfully* complete the OM/Eidolon missions have a chance to do so. It is a bit annoying to have to leave the Q-Warzone when I'm in the middle of doing dailies and players are gathering to do OM/Eidolon; I usually get locked out because another zone is not open. And truth be told, a lot of players refuse to leave when they are doing dailies to allow an OM/Eidolon run simply because of that.
I appreciate catalysts dropping from the Cosmics now but Stars are important as well, especially for players who have characters that are not level 40 that participate in the Cosmic missions. I suggest having the stars drop for characters level 35-39, then the catalysts when they reach level 40.
So the health of three bosses have been increased AND you can only take them down with a group of 10. Seems like Eido runs will be harder for the same amount of rewards, doesn't seem like a good change for me.
Maybe they'll be easier because people will take them more seriously and show up with their better characters.
....This means that either people swap characters, making them lose their spot, for a non repeated role, and/or that we'll have little damage and the final fight will take longer than it should, or even undoable due to the lack of DPS.
.....I really don't mind splitting up in teams, just these implications or side effects.
Were these the side effects of the successful run earlier today?
It's also a good argument for having some players around that have dual passive builds that can swap between tank and dps. (I have two characters with such builds, but have never tried tanking qzone OMs with them... and one of them still won't be going to qzone stuff because I don't want to have to change their travel powers away from flight + teleport and the gravity effect renders both of those worse than useless.)
Sadly dual passive builds dont hold up very well in the Q zone, it almost forces you into specializing if only to not end up as a useless potato.
It's less about challenge and more about lack of foresight and planning. Making unpopular content less accessible is dumb. Making unpopular content easier to troll and more annoying to complete is also dumb. Making unpopular content that requires certain roles harder to do in non-US east coast time zones due to lack of people to fulfill those roles is dumb.
Putting the Warzone changes on the PTS would have done nothing because the people who would largely be testing it are the regular runners who aren't actually going to be effected by these changes in the first place.
All you need is one guy to troll at oub or someone that comes mid fight at any OM and won't go anywhere else because s/he needs the perk.
All these only highlight the need to stop making mechanic-heavy open-world bosses and instead, start putting them in lairs. Lazier, easier bosses like Clarence are fine, but when the mechanics and group requirements start getting this strict, it's time to give the group more control over who shows up.
I agree, frankly and no offense intended, structuring an open world boss the way we do just invites conflict which ultimately brings the entire community down into a **** show. This is not the way to go about doing things due to the lack of control over various variables present. Without more ability to control those circumstances these bosses become mind numbing and impossible unless the stars align and beams of heavenly light rain down upon us with a miracle. We need lair bosses, not OB's or more cosmics, or even OM's.
In fact regardless of intended design the OM's where difficult enough as they where. Doing this only exacerbates the situation and alienates more people from even bothering. This is just poor design choice.
It's less about challenge and more about lack of foresight and planning. Making unpopular content less accessible is dumb. Making unpopular content easier to troll and more annoying to complete is also dumb. Making unpopular content that requires certain roles harder to do in non-US east coast time zones due to lack of people to fulfill those roles is dumb.
Putting the Warzone changes on the PTS would have done nothing because the people who would largely be testing it are the regular runners who aren't actually going to be effected by these changes in the first place.
What unpopular content? We do cosmics pretty much non-stop throughout primetime and the rest of the night almost every day.
You not wanting/not being qualified to participate does not equal not popular/impossible, just FYI.
Not directed at just you either, this applies to any of the folks that have this attitude and feel the need to project it onto the whole community as though everyone agrees with them even though we clearly don't.
Also, i like the changes, pushing it back into line with my original suggestion for having to work as teams to make a cosmic vulnerable is neat. But I don't think buffing up their hp and making them harder is necessarily the best solution. I agree with the others here that suggest making the time window between completions shorter is actually the best way to get people doing them all at once instead of trying to zerg rush them.
Not directed at just you either, this applies to any of the folks that have this attitude and feel the need to project it onto the whole community as though everyone agrees with them even though we clearly don't.
She is entitled to project her opinion just as much as you, because the whole "we" community does not think she is wrong.
What unpopular content? We do cosmics pretty much non-stop throughout primetime and the rest of the night almost every day.
You not wanting/not being qualified to participate does not equal not popular/impossible, just FYI.
Not directed at just you either, this applies to any of the folks that have this attitude and feel the need to project it onto the whole community as though everyone agrees with them even though we clearly don't.
It's a pretty obvious fact that a large majority of the community is unhappy with this content, the regulars that do run it frequently are outside the norm of the general community and make up the elite and veteran players for the large part. This content has a trend of going out of its way to exclude most of that "unqualified community" and viewing content in a way that it should exclude anyone is a dangerous outlook for the longevity of a game, since today casual gamers make up the majority as it is. Sit in zone for an hour or two and youll get an earful from handfuls of players unhappy with the content. Simply because a handful of players enjoy it does not make it popular with the majority.
P.S. as an afterthought, regardless of where the majority view may or may not extend, the fact is the content excludes a large amount of players, and has caused many to give up on the game altogether, that alone is a bad precedent, and frankly a large amount of the community is unhappy with it, majority or not.
Without more ability to control those circumstances these bosses become mind numbing and impossible unless the stars align and beams of heavenly light rain down upon us with a miracle.
Are you speaking from experience or just making stuff up? Unless the stars align with heavenly miracles every 3 hours then this is not the case. The Cosmics are farmed like cattle. They go down 15-30 minutes right after they go up.
Warzone is already extremely difficult without top level gear... add the various groups seperated by times zones and now it's become downright impossible. It's 4:20 pm ST and the Eido run we just didn't was very well balanced. But the massive amount of player deaths has become monotonous. Seriously Devs, ya'll need a wake up call to your game. Impossible and challenging are not synonomous!
we just did Eidolon with about 20 people. It took a few extra OM's to get him open but we did and finished him first try.
new problem
Cosmic beatdown mission- old version- mine just completed, so have other people. How do we hand them in?
"What unpopular content? We do cosmics pretty much non-stop throughout primetime and the rest of the night almost every day."
The Warzone is unpopular. And I seriously doubt that second part. I've seen how dead the Warzone is in my timezone's prime time. Plus, we have people from around the world that complain they can't do Cosmics even if they wanted to due to lack of people.
It was never intended that players can beat the timer without splitting up to complete the oms. This will be reinforced.
THEN WHY didn't you changed this SOONER and made everyone using the train strategy MONTHS NOW?
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Hmm, there may also be people in the Qzone just doing dailies. Going to be lots more screaming to get them to go to another zone.
Yeah these changes may have unintended consequences. Luckily (???) the q zone is usually empty so this may not be that big of an issue most of the time.
we just did Eidolon with about 20 people. It took a few extra OM's to get him open but we did and finished him first try.
So basically people are still doing it like they always did they are just playing harder.
We tried to split up (do one, split and do the other two) but we didn't have enough tanks so that wasn't working, and then the OMs got out of sync so we couldn't do that anyway, so we wound up doing them sequentially.
Without more ability to control those circumstances these bosses become mind numbing and impossible unless the stars align and beams of heavenly light rain down upon us with a miracle.
Are you speaking from experience or just making stuff up? Unless the stars align with heavenly miracles every 3 hours then this is not the case. The Cosmics are farmed like cattle. They go down 15-30 minutes right after they go up.
That was in reference to the Q zone and Eidolon, as it stands currently all it takes is one bad player to ruin everything. The odds of that person not appearing are pretty low.
Without more ability to control those circumstances these bosses become mind numbing and impossible unless the stars align and beams of heavenly light rain down upon us with a miracle.
Are you speaking from experience or just making stuff up? Unless the stars align with heavenly miracles every 3 hours then this is not the case. The Cosmics are farmed like cattle. They go down 15-30 minutes right after they go up.
That was in reference to the Q zone and Eidolon, as it stands currently all it takes is one bad player to ruin everything. The odds of that person not appearing are pretty low.
Also, Vixy you and i both know you dont qualify as the average player, youre next level. One time with a bunch of focused, coordinated, and driven players isnt a great standard for this sort of thing, and the content is designed for those efforts to succeed. Im speaking about our ability to control the circumstances that would make it impossible. The ones we currently have no way too, like trolls coming in and dps cced shadow crystals or so on so forth.
Im speaking about our ability to control the circumstances that would make it impossible. The ones we currently have no way too, like trolls coming in and dps cced shadow crystals or so on so forth
Agreed with the sentiment but I have not seen much trolling in the Q Zone as of yet and breaking the group up into smaller ones reduces those chances even more. (famous last words?)
Im speaking about our ability to control the circumstances that would make it impossible. The ones we currently have no way too, like trolls coming in and dps cced shadow crystals or so on so forth
Agreed with the sentiment but I have not seen much trolling in the Q Zone as of yet and breaking the group up into smaller ones reduces those chances even more. (famous last words?)
If you're going to troll in the QZ, you'd troll the Eidelon, not the precursor missions.
I dunno, from what I've heard this change can make it so an OM fails just because an extra player or two was there. doesn't even need to be a troll.
There isn't a really sharp increase in difficulty, it's just a gradual curve. An additional person there might cause the OM to take slightly longer than it would without that person being there, but that's usually not going to make the difference between success and failure.
Gotta love actual facts brushing aside panicked speculation.
PS - for all you people constantly talking about how you're not a part of "the elite minority". That minority has been growing as more and more people realize just how easy it is to become a part of it - before TA released it was a pretty small group of long time pros...it's become so big that I'm regularly meeting star players who I've never heard of. The first big step is giving up the belief that you can never be a part of it - drop the excuses, start to be willing to try, and be willing to fall down a few times before you learn how to sprint. The second big step is to entertain the notion that all these people who are really good at the game might actually have some useful information to give you if you would just stop trying to paint them as your oppressors for half a minute - they're not monsters trying to eat up your theme and force you to play the game in un-fun ways...in fact quite the opposite. All steps after this are small ones and mostly consist of personal progression.
for all you people constantly talking about how you're not a part of "the elite minority". That minority has been growing as more and more people realize just how easy it is to become a part of it - before TA released it was a pretty small group of long time pros...it's become so big that I'm regularly meeting star players who I've never heard of. The first big step is giving up the belief that you can never be a part of it - drop the excuses, start to be willing to try, and be willing to fall down a few times before you learn how to sprint. The second big step is to entertain the notion that all these people who are really good at the game might actually have some useful information to give you if you would just stop trying to paint them as your oppressors for half a minute - they're not monsters trying to eat up your theme and force you to play the game in un-fun ways...in fact quite the opposite. All steps after this are small ones and mostly consist of personal progression.
^ I just logged in to support this quote here exactly. As much as I don't exactly favor how some folks operate with newer-ish players, this still counts overall.
I agree that most players can develop skills, builds, and gear to be contributing members to Cosmic runs.
I will note, however, that despite the change to the OMs, folks still tend to defeat them in sequence, rather than 3 teams. The difficulty of coordinating three groups of players is quite high, and different than difficulty from mechanics or the strength of enemies.
Slug, Oubliette and Portal Guardian now get much stronger when you have more than the intended number of players attacking them. This was done to prevent players from completing all the open missions as one group instead of splitting up to trigger the Shadowfall open mission.
I can quickly see this backfiring. Anything that punishes you for having MORE players in an open event is going to result in people showing up HOPING to get SCR not caring that their presence (assuming it exceeds the intended count) is causing problems.
Inversely I can see it becoming a cause to create 'private' runnings and possibly even using SG Numbers to lock of instances for 'private SG runs'.
We just beat it again last night. Without a private secret run or anything of the sort. A bit more coordination sure, but nothing Cosmic HQ can't handle.
Also confirmed that the hardest part about this is still the final boss and not clearing the OMs in time - which was not touched.
Are they being beaten sequentially or are folks actually splitting up like the devs supposedly intended?
When I was there we started on one, then split up to do the other two. So, both? Maybe they're doing them simultaneously now. To be honest, with less people at an OM it actually feels easier since what's going on is much clearer.
I can quickly see this backfiring. Anything that punishes you for having MORE players in an open event is going to result in people showing up HOPING to get SCR not caring that their presence (assuming it exceeds the intended count) is causing problems.
Inversely I can see it becoming a cause to create 'private' runnings and possibly even using SG Numbers to lock of instances for 'private SG runs'.
Punchy has nailed it. I am in a like half a dozen guilds with enough members to pull this type of stunt off, thankfully they are all as a whole awesome guilds and would never do such a thing but all it would take is for a more anti social guild to mass troll the zone.
Its not an IF it happens but WHEN it happens.
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Are they being beaten sequentially or are folks actually splitting up like the devs supposedly intended?
When I was there we started on one, then split up to do the other two. So, both? Maybe they're doing them simultaneously now. To be honest, with less people at an OM it actually feels easier since what's going on is much clearer.
I'm down for clearer. I still won't be switching toons though, I hope that doesn't/hasn't become a thing. The toon I bring is the one I want the SCR and GCR on.
I can quickly see this backfiring. Anything that punishes you for having MORE players in an open event is going to result in people showing up HOPING to get SCR not caring that their presence (assuming it exceeds the intended count) is causing problems.
Inversely I can see it becoming a cause to create 'private' runnings and possibly even using SG Numbers to lock of instances for 'private SG runs'.
Punchy has nailed it. I am in a like half a dozen guilds with enough members to pull this type of stunt off, thankfully they are all as a whole awesome guilds and would never do such a thing but all it would take is for a more anti social guild to mass troll the zone.
Its not an IF it happens but WHEN it happens.
I don't know . . . I don't think CO's pop supports a full guild trying this. Maybe one or two folks though.
Added a year round winter store to recognition area. It sells winter items at double the regular price. Certain winter items are not available.
so...where are the accountwide aura boxes for the winter auras? you know, like the ones the year round bloodmoon vendor has and the winter one DOESN'T?
I can quickly see this backfiring. Anything that punishes you for having MORE players in an open event is going to result in people showing up HOPING to get SCR not caring that their presence (assuming it exceeds the intended count) is causing problems.
More people doesn't really make it harder. It just doesn't make it significantly easier, so you'll be faster splitting up.
Comments
The devs want you to complete this content with difficulty. Note that both "complete content" and "difficulty" are present.....if you're just going to argue for one part of that sentence and not the others then you're barking up the wrong tree.
When you see new changes, give yourself the benefit of the doubt and immediately assume something is doable until it is *proven* not to be. Then say, "how can I do this?". Once you start asking "how" then a lot of stuff becomes possible.
If you assume something is impossible from the outset then you will not get to asking "how". You'll just make it impossible for yourself.
If you could figure out how to do everything just by reading patch notes then it would definitely be pretty boring. Hold the kneejerks and give things a chance.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
In this particular case, my own concern is lessened in large part due to how this encounter will likely be done: with smaller groups of players. In a small group the trolls, etc....are not going to be able to hide as effectively so it's less of an issue imo.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
This means that either people swap characters, making them lose their spot, for a non repeated role, and/or that we'll have little damage and the final fight will take longer than it should, or even undoable due to the lack of DPS.
But as I said, I really don't mind splitting up in teams, just these implications or side effects.
Ahh well, I figured the OM farming wouldn't last forever; I have most of the kill perks. However, I do agree with others that have posted before me that it will be a challenge to ensure players who want to *successfully* complete the OM/Eidolon missions have a chance to do so. It is a bit annoying to have to leave the Q-Warzone when I'm in the middle of doing dailies and players are gathering to do OM/Eidolon; I usually get locked out because another zone is not open. And truth be told, a lot of players refuse to leave when they are doing dailies to allow an OM/Eidolon run simply because of that.
I appreciate catalysts dropping from the Cosmics now but Stars are important as well, especially for players who have characters that are not level 40 that participate in the Cosmic missions. I suggest having the stars drop for characters level 35-39, then the catalysts when they reach level 40.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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Wolverine hanging with Supes could mean trouble, since he's dead......
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Putting the Warzone changes on the PTS would have done nothing because the people who would largely be testing it are the regular runners who aren't actually going to be effected by these changes in the first place.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
In fact regardless of intended design the OM's where difficult enough as they where. Doing this only exacerbates the situation and alienates more people from even bothering. This is just poor design choice.
You not wanting/not being qualified to participate does not equal not popular/impossible, just FYI.
Not directed at just you either, this applies to any of the folks that have this attitude and feel the need to project it onto the whole community as though everyone agrees with them even though we clearly don't.
Also, i like the changes, pushing it back into line with my original suggestion for having to work as teams to make a cosmic vulnerable is neat. But I don't think buffing up their hp and making them harder is necessarily the best solution. I agree with the others here that suggest making the time window between completions shorter is actually the best way to get people doing them all at once instead of trying to zerg rush them.
Snark never dies.
P.S. as an afterthought, regardless of where the majority view may or may not extend, the fact is the content excludes a large amount of players, and has caused many to give up on the game altogether, that alone is a bad precedent, and frankly a large amount of the community is unhappy with it, majority or not.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
we just did Eidolon with about 20 people. It took a few extra OM's to get him open but we did and finished him first try.
new problem
Cosmic beatdown mission- old version- mine just completed, so have other people. How do we hand them in?
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The Warzone is unpopular. And I seriously doubt that second part. I've seen how dead the Warzone is in my timezone's prime time. Plus, we have people from around the world that complain they can't do Cosmics even if they wanted to due to lack of people.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Still hovering alone in Qliphotic Warzone #2.
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THEN WHY didn't you changed this SOONER and made everyone using the train strategy MONTHS NOW?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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Block timing explained
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
PS - for all you people constantly talking about how you're not a part of "the elite minority". That minority has been growing as more and more people realize just how easy it is to become a part of it - before TA released it was a pretty small group of long time pros...it's become so big that I'm regularly meeting star players who I've never heard of. The first big step is giving up the belief that you can never be a part of it - drop the excuses, start to be willing to try, and be willing to fall down a few times before you learn how to sprint. The second big step is to entertain the notion that all these people who are really good at the game might actually have some useful information to give you if you would just stop trying to paint them as your oppressors for half a minute - they're not monsters trying to eat up your theme and force you to play the game in un-fun ways...in fact quite the opposite. All steps after this are small ones and mostly consist of personal progression.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I just logged in to support this quote here exactly.
As much as I don't exactly favor how some folks operate with newer-ish players, this still counts overall.
I will note, however, that despite the change to the OMs, folks still tend to defeat them in sequence, rather than 3 teams. The difficulty of coordinating three groups of players is quite high, and different than difficulty from mechanics or the strength of enemies.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Inversely I can see it becoming a cause to create 'private' runnings and possibly even using SG Numbers to lock of instances for 'private SG runs'.
@Chimerafreek
Also confirmed that the hardest part about this is still the final boss and not clearing the OMs in time - which was not touched.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Still, I dunno. Just not a fan. Ah, well--not everyone has to love everything in the game.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Its not an IF it happens but WHEN it happens.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
so...where are the accountwide aura boxes for the winter auras? you know, like the ones the year round bloodmoon vendor has and the winter one DOESN'T?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
It already happened. Oh wait, you didn't mean us beating the whole thing the same day the change went into effect o3o
As several have pointed out, it's not "One more person and it's impossible". From what I've seen and heard it's actually a pretty soft increase.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.