You mean STo and NW that actually do have content that a large part of the player base cannot participate in for the very same reasons, IE a bunch of people want to be soloists in multi-player content.
Not really. I won't speak for Neverwinter since I didn't care for it and haven't played through far enough to reach endgame, but in STO, it works like this:
1) Queued content rolls out with multiple difficulties: Normal, Advanced, and sometimes Elite. Normal is the kind of thing anyone in scrubby quest gear can jump into after hitting max level. Advanced is for decently-geared people who want a bit of a challenge. Finally, Elite is what most players won't likely be able to do because of its gear and skill requirements. Even though I've not really tried TA, I'm pretty sure it falls somewhere between STO's Advanced and Elite based on what I see people saying about it.
2) Unlike CO, queued content isn't the only progression path STO has. We also have battlezones, which are absolutely amazing and I think the CO community would really like them. There's no set grouping, and you can try to do some of the stuff solo if you want, but its generally a good idea to fight alongside fellow players as the objectives reward everyone once anyone completes them. (You have to participate somewhat though or you get nothing, so you can't just idle) Other events, such as the Terran fleet turkey shoot...uh, I mean Terran fleet battle in the final phase of the Badlands battlezone, draw players together naturally. The best part is there's no strings attached. You join when you want, clear several objectives, then leave when you're done.
That said, aside from seasonal event trade-ins (it's as grindy as it sounds) the only reasonable way to get marks (used to progress through reputation) is by engaging in some sort of multiplayer content. The colossally massive difference between STO's approach and CO's approach is that STO's is very inclusive. It provides something for everyone--the geared, more hardcore players get Advanced and Elite difficulty, the casual players or those who just hit max level on a given character have Normal difficulty queues, and everyone has battlezones. Meanwhile, CO rolls out TA and...oh. It's only for some people. What a shame.
Oh, also "soloists" (there's really nothing wrong with wanting to play a game a certain way) in STO can instead opt to just use gear from the endgame-level Featured Episodes and disregard the reputation system entirely. The FE gear occasionally is really good (such as the Chronometric set), but generally, would be considered about on par with Heroic gear for CO in terms of effectiveness and before the SCR price hike, difficulty of obtaining.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Strict? They are actually rather lax. The easiest run is two tanks with one decent support and two DPS. You can do a lot of combinations. We've had a mezzer in place of the tank, we've had 3 DPS, we've had no tanks, we've had heirloom geared, we've taken ATs. But you don't care about facts. Like at all.
One run it was me as tank and 4 support, and people say they wouldn't do enough damage. That was a rather dull run to., mostly because I don't think much healing was required and no one was in any real danger.
But hey, you can keep calling me what was it, oh a complete moron, and I will keep laughing at evidently something so impossible, that only the top super echelon can do, while I do it on my archer with no problem in heirloom gear.
No, actually, what I'm going to call you on is this "Anyone can do TA" attitude that is demonstrably wrong. Anyone can get carried through TA? Maybe. You may have the support network and well-geared friends to take what you like into TA and win. Unfortunately, based on my own experiences with TA, this does not generalize to the player base at large.
As far as people doing things in TA: I've taken my Arch/DB hybrid w/LR and was questioned readily/often by my team as to why I: "Wasn't in DPS role" "Had LR on a DPS passive(I understand this one but there have been DPS with Defensive passives such as invuln, LR, regen, etc..and quite high at that)."
Point being, it can be said any can do it, but when I try to bring any, that toon is basically looked at as an anomaly/berated for my choices. Just thought I'd add my experience on one of my toons.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
No, actually, what I'm going to call you on is this "Anyone can do TA" attitude that is demonstrably wrong. Anyone can get carried through TA? Maybe. You may have the support network and well-geared friends to take what you like into TA and win. Unfortunately, based on my own experiences with TA, this does not generalize to the player base at large.
Anyone can DPS in TA, unless you've got atrocious ping times. Any dedicated healer should have sufficient heal output. Tanking requirements are probably the most difficult, as you need to both survive and maintain threat and TA doesn't have the super-easy threat management of F&I.
You mean STo and NW that actually do have content that a large part of the player base cannot participate in for the very same reasons, IE a bunch of people want to be soloists in multi-player content.
Not really. I won't speak for Neverwinter since I didn't care for it and haven't played through far enough to reach endgame, but in STO, it works like this:
1) Queued content rolls out with multiple difficulties: Normal, Advanced, and sometimes Elite. Normal is the kind of thing anyone in scrubby quest gear can jump into after hitting max level. Advanced is for decently-geared people who want a bit of a challenge. Finally, Elite is what most players won't likely be able to do because of its gear and skill requirements. Even though I've not really tried TA, I'm pretty sure it falls somewhere between STO's Advanced and Elite based on what I see people saying about it.
2) Unlike CO, queued content isn't the only progression path STO has. We also have battlezones, which are absolutely amazing and I think the CO community would really like them. There's no set grouping, and you can try to do some of the stuff solo if you want, but its generally a good idea to fight alongside fellow players as the objectives reward everyone once anyone completes them. (You have to participate somewhat though or you get nothing, so you can't just idle) Other events, such as the Terran fleet turkey shoot...uh, I mean Terran fleet battle in the final phase of the Badlands battlezone, draw players together naturally. The best part is there's no strings attached. You join when you want, clear several objectives, then leave when you're done.
That said, aside from seasonal event trade-ins (it's as grindy as it sounds) the only reasonable way to get marks (used to progress through reputation) is by engaging in some sort of multiplayer content. The colossally massive difference between STO's approach and CO's approach is that STO's is very inclusive. It provides something for everyone--the geared, more hardcore players get Advanced and Elite difficulty, the casual players or those who just hit max level on a given character have Normal difficulty queues, and everyone has battlezones. Meanwhile, CO rolls out TA and...oh. It's only for some people. What a shame.
Oh, also "soloists" (there's really nothing wrong with wanting to play a game a certain way) in STO can instead opt to just use gear from the endgame-level Featured Episodes and disregard the reputation system entirely. The FE gear occasionally is really good (such as the Chronometric set), but generally, would be considered about on par with Heroic gear for CO in terms of effectiveness and before the SCR price hike, difficulty of obtaining.
Yeah unfortunately CO just doesn't get the resources that other games get to have a constant flow of releasing content. When the devs here are working on one thing they basically only have resources to work on that one thing.
Yeah unfortunately CO just doesn't get the resources that other games get to have a constant flow of releasing content. When the devs here are working on one thing they basically only have resources to work on that one thing.
Yeah, I know. It's unfortunate, but it's not likely to change unless some sort of random miracle happens. In light of that, they should try to make the game accommodating to as many players as possible. Unless their game-editing tools are complete rubbish, it's been my experience that it's not really very resource-intensive to create 2-3 varied-difficulty copies of something, especially if you do it the cheesy way STO does by just making the numbers bigger.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Anyone can DPS in TA, unless you've got atrocious ping times. Any dedicated healer should have sufficient heal output. Tanking requirements are probably the most difficult, as you need to both survive and maintain threat and TA doesn't have the super-easy threat management of F&I.
Not quite--when you confront the Teleiosaurus Hatchling, you need enough DPS to get past its healing. I was on a team that didn't have enough DPS for that round. Just once, but it happens.
Aesica: TA is far more difficult than any ground elite queue in STO. This includes the infamous HGE.
What MAKES it difficult is extremely strict team composition and teamwork requirements.
HGE = Into the Hive? I'm having an acronym failure here.
In either case, I stand corrected, and this makes it all that much more unfortunate that some people are claiming that just about anyone can run it. Undergeared people generally won't make it through elite ground queues without being a hindrance, and if TA is worse...yeah. Ouch.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
HGE = Into the Hive? I'm having an acronym failure here.
In either case, I stand corrected, and this makes it all that much more unfortunate that some people are claiming that just about anyone can run it. Undergeared people generally won't make it through elite ground queues without being a hindrance, and if TA is worse...yeah. Ouch.
There isn't strict team composition or requirements. It requires people pay attention and work as a team. About the only thing really required a decent healer beyond that, good DPS and someone that can hold aggro and take a hit is all that's needed. This idea it requires an ideal team is poppy.
I've never done it. Never wanted to. I'd rather just buy Legion gear for my active toons since I can just buy that with G...the GCR gear itself does nothing to allow me to do things that Legion gear can't...and in a few months there will probably be another tier of gear released anyways, so grinding this seems more like a chore than fun...for me, anyways. No ilvl just means no content gating, so I don't even have that to deal with either.
The only thing I would really like is the electro pulse power, but I'm fine without it. I'm sure GCR or something similar will come from a lockbox at some point, so I'm not too worried about it at all.
I'm glad people enjoy the content, I'm just still really burnt out with dungeons and raids from years of nothing but that in WoW. Alerts are a nice, short stint of content, and those are about as team-oriented that I care to be for now.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
Cosmics will give out GCR after their update, but from what I've heard, you're going to have to really do your part in order to not be blocked out of getting rewards, as they're putting in countermeasures so that leechers don't get rewarded.
Umm, all my lvl 40s (25+) are fully geared with some Legion but mostly Rampage Primaries and Vigilante/Onslaught Secondaries and I do play them all in end game content (some more than others, of course).
This is why I like universal currencies. At the moment I am grinding away with one guy to get the 975 tokens for Valerian's halo. About half way there and getting more and more bored with it every day (averaging 15 SCR/day). How much more fun and interesting it would be for me if I could use several characters for this purpose by pooling the rewards! I have to play the same amount of time to get the halo, I just get to have more fun doing it. Fun = good.
No, pools should not be universal, no you don't have to gear up every last character you make, because you aren't likely to play every last character you make in the end game content.
1. I use all my 40s in endgame content, excepting maybe one (who did plenty of endgame content back before on alert). 2. Account currencies don't make it "easier". You have to play the content just as much. The claim that it becomes 'easier' is nonsensical on-face.
<blockquote>"2. Account currencies don't make it "easier". You have to play the content just as much. The claim that it becomes 'easier' is nonsensical on-face."</blockquote>
Unless all your characters need exactly the same amount of GCR/SCR, and/or daily missions and DR on currency farming is removed, having account currencies does make things (a lot) easier.
(dumb quoting is broken for me in half the threads)
1. I use all my 40s in endgame content, excepting maybe one (who did plenty of endgame content back before on alert).
2. Account currencies don't make it "easier". You have to play the content just as much. The claim that it becomes 'easier' is nonsensical on-face.
And I am calling BS on that. For starters if you use all your 40s you either have very few forties or a lot more time and patience than I do.
Second, yes it does. Look at Rampages. It's a hell of a lot easier to gear up one, and even multiple characters, the more alts you have than it is to do it with a couple of characters. If you think that account currency would not make it easier, then I want to sell you a bridge.
I know of several people that had MULTIPLE characters geared up after the first rotation of Rampage, so saying it wouldn't speed things up is just being ridiculously silly and naive at this point.
Unless all your characters need exactly the same amount of GCR/SCR, and/or daily missions and DR on currency farming is removed, having account currencies does make things (a lot) easier.
(dumb quoting is broken for me in half the threads)
And I am calling BS on that. For starters if you use all your 40s you either have very few forties or a lot more time and patience than I do.
Second, yes it does. Look at Rampages. It's a hell of a lot easier to gear up one, and even multiple characters, the more alts you have than it is to do it with a couple of characters. If you think that account currency would not make it easier, then I want to sell you a bridge.
I know of several people that had MULTIPLE characters geared up after the first rotation of Rampage, so saying it wouldn't speed things up is just being ridiculously silly and naive at this point.
40s/ Just because i don't use a character *daily* to do endgame doesn't mean i don't use them to do endgame stuff. I play the character i want to play at the time, which rotates across most of my 40s. (Also, depending on what role is needed). I have 16 40s, 15 of which get played at least 1/week in some capacity, and all of whom have played rampages (to choose a particular content type) at some point.
Easy/ 1. Speed =/= difficulty. Your entire point is false on face because you think this equivalency holds.
2. It's not really faster. Yes, playing 16 40s would mean getting tokens 16x as fast in theory (if you could play *all of them*), but it still takes *just as long* (in days) as the person with one character to fully gear *all of them*, because you need 16x as much.
3. You can't actually reach that theoretical point where it's just as fast. No one has time to play 16 alts through TA per day. Heck, most people don't have time to play 16 characters in rampages in a day through all the diminishing returns. (Even playing 16 characters once each in a rampage is a lot of time). And I'm not even at the high end of altaholism - it would be physically impossible for Bluhman to play all of his 100+ alts through TA in a day, even if he didn't sleep and had the best team ever helping him the whole time. Which means people with a lot of alts actually *fall behind* the person with one character.
4. Yes, you'd gear *one* character faster. Oh noes - you have all those other toons that you're actively playing at least some of the time too. Those people who geared multiple toons for Justice in a single cycle (a) had a *lot* of time on their hands to play that much, (b) played the rampage more than 6x as much as the person with a single character, on average, (c) did not gear all their toons.
(In particular, because the token DR on rampage lasts *the three days the particular rampage is up*, it takes at least 6 characters to reasonably complete 1 justice set, so it's still 1/6th the tokens needed for all the characters involved, barring exceptional luck where you manage a second token on a single character - something which could happen to the one character player too!)
5. The only way it looks faster is relative to the diminishing returns, because in terms of days spent, you can do it faster. But in terms of hours spent its *exactly the same*. The single character player is just forced to spread it out more. Thus, in terms of time spent on the content, it is not faster at all.
6. If it was such a big advantage, more people would spend money buying extra character slots. (Or convert Q to Z to do so). That should be a financial incentive for Cryptic to have more account-wide currencies, not less.
7. Most people with tons of alts don't have time to play all of them seriously every day. It's why many of my alts are in various states of completion on OSV secondaries. Some have all three, some have two, some have one, some have barely started. If OSV currencies were account-bound, i'd still have the same number of OSV tokens (which might translate into a couple more pieces completed, but not as many tokens remaining), and my characters would be closer to all 3 or none in equip stages. And I'd still need the same number of total tokens to fully gear all my characters.
And that's when it takes ~5 min to get 300 VT each day. Yes, it's too much time to spend 5 minutes on 16 characters each for OSV secondaries (and do other things I want to do). You really think most people with tons of alts would be able to play all of them through TA daily? Most of us don't live in the game.
Actually it isn't. You're just trying to play the moving goalpost game now. Yes, it makes it easier. No, your attempts at refuting do not prove it doesn't make it easier. Considering there is an intentional limiter in place with multiple characters even on Rampages. Just like there is a limit with GCR. You're attempt to refute and deny these facts is hilarious at this point.
And funny you should mention that, since most people who consider it an advantage do have more character slots for that purpose. You really keep trying to ice skate uphill don't you?
So many false claims in your post. It is a huge advantage to have multiple alts to do Rampages. Trying to claim it's not is just silly. Because you can get multiple tokens in the fraction of the time you can do it with a single or two characters. And you keep trying to deny that fact. You cannot earn tokens on a single character at the same rate you can earn them on multiple characters. I guarantee you if someone using one character versus someone using six, the person doing the same amount of runs, would walk away with far less tokens than someone using 6. And no, you cannot refute this.
Actually it isn't. You're just trying to play the moving goalpost game now. Yes, it makes it easier. No, your attempts at refuting do not prove it doesn't make it easier. Considering there is an intentional limiter in place with multiple characters even on Rampages. Just like there is a limit with GCR. You're attempt to refute and deny these facts is hilarious at this point.
And funny you should mention that, since most people who consider it an advantage do have more character slots for that purpose. You really keep trying to ice skate uphill don't you?
So many false claims in your post. It is a huge advantage to have multiple alts to do Rampages. Trying to claim it's not is just silly. Because you can get multiple tokens in the fraction of the time you can do it with a single or two characters. And you keep trying to deny that fact. You cannot earn tokens on a single character at the same rate you can earn them on multiple characters. I guarantee you if someone using one character versus someone using six, the person doing the same amount of runs, would walk away with far less tokens than someone using 6. And no, you cannot refute this.
You realize you didn't answer a single thing i said, and your post is already refuted by my previous one?
To reiterate some key points:
goalposts/ I've moved no goalposts. Please tell me what goalposts I've moved and what *my* previous stance was which is different. Saying stuff doesn't make it true.
difficulty/ Please explain how it makes it *easier* to be able to productively play more now? Last i checked, difficulty was a function of how hard something was, not how much time you could spend doing it. How does making you wait a day, a week, or 12 days make something *harder*. You have never once answered this question, and it destroys your entire position.
People with alts/ great, proves what i said. And its financially advantageous for cryptic, so i don't see the problem. This is not evidence against me, it's proof that account-currencies are to cryptic's advantage.
Time/ you're simply confused. You don't get tokens any faster with multiple alts in terms of hours played (on rampages or anything else). And that's the most relevant metric, because that's *actual play time*. Multiple alts simply lets you have more choice over which days you spend that time. For people with a lot of time on their hands, it can mean fewer *days* to a set of justice, but the *hours* are the same. We need to be explicit and clear about units on time here, because you are either confusing them or valuing only one of them, and either is problematic.
Token earning rate/ 1. You're wrong as a matter of hours played on the content. A single character earns the same tokens per hour as multiple characters. Multiple characters can simply spend more hours/day.
2. The maximum rate of token earning per day is *proportional* to the number of characters. The need for tokens is also proportional to the number of characters, so this balances out. If it takes a single character 6 cycles of rampages to get a justice set, it takes a player with 6 characters the same number of cycles to get a justice set for all of them. Sure, the player with 6 characters gets a justice set per cycle, but he spent 6x as much time doing so, and he needs 6x as many.
That conclusively demonstrates that the person with 6 characters doesn't save any time, but loses time because they have to play 6x as much. There's no 'advantage', he doesn't get tokens 'faster', he gets tokens proportional to the number of characters for proportionally more hours, but also needs proportionally more.
3. Your number of runs analysis is flawed, because the person with one character *will do fewer runs*. The diminishing returns basically means that once you get a token you should stop with that character. So the person with one character gets a token *as fast as the person with 6 characters*, and then is done till the next rampage. The person with 6 characters will play 6x as many rampages.
If the person with one character did do the same number of runs without wasting time after diminishing returns, they'd have the same number of tokens as the player with 6 characters, the game would just force them to spread those runs out over 6x as many days.
The advantage to multiple characters is specific to situations where there's diminishing returns on multiple runs. For example, let's say I have enough time in a day for 3 TA runs.
If I run them all with the same character, I do one daily and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 26 GCR. If I run them with three different characters, I do three dailies and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 36 GCR.
The advantage to multiple characters is specific to situations where there's diminishing returns on multiple runs. For example, let's say I have enough time in a day for 3 TA runs.
If I run them all with the same character, I do one daily and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 26 GCR. If I run them with three different characters, I do three dailies and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 36 GCR.
That's still true even without account currencies. Here's the thing: you want a determination piece on all your characters. Okay, so you run 3 characters for 12 each, and they'll each get the determination piece in n days. If it was an account currency, they'd all still get it in n days, but you'd get for one character after n/3 days, the second character's after 2n/3 days, and the third characters at the end of n days. Making the currency character-bound just means they all get it after n days.
The single character player actually comes out ahead in days here, because he gets 26 GCR/day towards *one* piece, while the three character account only progresses 36GCR/day towards 3 pieces. 26/n is bigger than 36/3n, whether the currency is account-bound or character bound.
Note: still has nothing to do with being easy or hard.
The single character player actually comes out ahead in days here, because he gets 26 GCR/day towards *one* piece, while the three character account only progresses 36GCR/day towards 3 pieces. 26/n is bigger than 36/3n, whether the currency is account-bound or character bound.
No, the three-character account gets 36 GCR/day towards one piece. People often farm with multiple alts to equip a favorite character, and not equipping the others. That is what I do, and why I can earn Justice Gear quite fast, having a couple dozen alts.
Another way to put it: A character wants three pieces of GCR gear, costing a total of 300 GCR. Using a single character, earning, for instance, 26 GCR per day, gets 312 GCR in 12 days. You could then work on your next toon, and a third; after 36 days, all are outfitted, with 12 GCR left per character. There is no carry-over for leftover GCR to help with outfitting several toons. You could, of course, do two less runs on the last day, since you would already have 300 GCR by then. If the currency were account-bound, you could rotate among 3 characters, and earn 324 GCR in 9 days. Keep rotating those same three characters, and you will have all three outfit in 27 days, with 72 GCR left over. In this case, it took less time, and you have a more easily usable amount of GCR left. If you go to a fourth toon, you earn the next piece in nearly two days less time.
Something else--for Justice Gear, a character with a full set can still be usefully used to earn tokens. If currency were account-wide, like that, then characters who have all the gear could still be used to earn currency for characters that don't.
I am sympathetic to the idea of account-wide currency. I want costume stuff, and I would like to rotate more toons through things while earning that currency. It's annoying to have enough GCR for a costume piece when it is spread across five characters.
That being said, account-wide currencies heavily favor players with alts over one character. The more alts, the more favored (up to a maximum play time).
P. S. There is also a corner-case where the maximum play time doesn't allow for more than one character to be played per day anyway.
The single character player actually comes out ahead in days here, because he gets 26 GCR/day towards *one* piece, while the three character account only progresses 36GCR/day towards 3 pieces.
That assumes you want the gear on all your characters.
Even if you gear every single toon, since the rate of GCR earned doesn't match up with gear prices, account-wide currency would be faster. The extra bit of currency left over from getting each piece of gear could be passed on to the next piece, and so on.
With character-bound currency, this won't happen.
Anyway, my example above illustrates the situation more clearly. If currency were account-wide, those with many alts would be heavily favored for earning currency (because of the GCR earned on a daily mission, once per toon).
I run TA regularly and I know a lot of people who still do (mostly because it is the only way to get GCR). I don't think people really ask for TA groups in zone because you need more from people than just, "LF1 HEALER LF1 DPS". You need people you can trust, who will use teamwork and follow their roles. You have to have people who will not lose their temper when their teammates make a mistake (because they will) and you have to have someone who is capable of being aware of the situation in a TA run and not just trying to do a ton of damage or hold aggro from everyone.
So, you can't really fit that in a zone shout. Usually, you are going to find that from friends and then people you meet who have experience running TA.
pantagruel/ It does not bother me that the person with multiple toons who only wants the gear for one of them gets ahead. I think this case is a minority - most people with multiple toons will probably want to gear some subset of them that is greater than 1. (And will probably even play the characters they want to gear - desire to gear and desire to play are going to be strongly correlated).
roughbear/ it similarly does not bother me that account-wide currencies allow you to use 'rollover' currency efficiently. That's actually an advantage of the system, not a disadvantage. Leftover currency that you have no good use for and spent effort to acquire is terrible given the effort involved.
And the magnitude of the rollover effect is tiny. How many complete gear sets do you have to get before you have a 'free' set from rollover? Using cost = 300 and reward = 12, there's actually no rollover at all. (12 divides evenly into 300, 300/12 = 25, and this is obvious by inspection because 300 = 240 + 60).
Anyway, neither of these change the fact that (1) it has nothing to do with difficulty, (2) it doesn't really let you play the content less (the rollover effect is going to be pretty minor), and will probably involve you playing more (if you're gearing multiple characters, you're going to play the content more, even if it isn't all of them).
I certainly don't see the problem with already geared characters playing it - you're still playing the content, so what's the problem here?
Anyway, my key point here was about 'difficulty', and none of these points have anything to do with difficulty.
Actually it isn't. You're just trying to play the moving goalpost game now. Yes, it makes it easier. No, your attempts at refuting do not prove it doesn't make it easier. Considering there is an intentional limiter in place with multiple characters even on Rampages. Just like there is a limit with GCR. You're attempt to refute and deny these facts is hilarious at this point.
And funny you should mention that, since most people who consider it an advantage do have more character slots for that purpose. You really keep trying to ice skate uphill don't you?
So many false claims in your post. It is a huge advantage to have multiple alts to do Rampages. Trying to claim it's not is just silly. Because you can get multiple tokens in the fraction of the time you can do it with a single or two characters. And you keep trying to deny that fact. You cannot earn tokens on a single character at the same rate you can earn them on multiple characters. I guarantee you if someone using one character versus someone using six, the person doing the same amount of runs, would walk away with far less tokens than someone using 6. And no, you cannot refute this.
Okay, maybe you'll get numbers . I have 27 40s.:
I'd say I have ~8 40s who have heroics(from before the price hike), some of those same 8 also have legions from beggi-I mean-kindly inquiring for said legion using valuable salvage of my own .
Let's for the sake of stability, introduce a hypothetical. This is what I would consider a casual scenario(as in those who don't have enormous amounts of time to farm SCR): The mission dailies. This is in essence both the alert dailies(not vigilance because that's technically unreliable(thank you Cybermind bug!! )[This also includes TA]. 5+5=10+12=22 SCR daily.
[**Disclaimer**: This is based on the premise of multiple alts as well as if this unified currency were placed into affect. I am in no way, shape, or form stating that this will be the time it takes for everyone to accomplish this goal, nor am I in anyway stating that the community of CO as a whole will follow/adhere to what is contained in this post. For all intents and purposes the math displayed here is purely HYPOTHETICAL and, while the numeric values are accurate, it is solely based; A.) On the off-chance that someone wishes to gear out 19 level 40s, and B.) They only have a certain amount of time to play a day(for this math, 2 hours was used as the hypothetical base)Also, in this scenario TA would most likely not be a daily thing but for the sake of hypotheticals and not knowing if AP/CS give SCR(haven't ran em in a while)., As well as trying to get any and all potential quick(and mission-based) sources of SCR, it was included].
Post edited by xcelsior41 on
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
I don't see the big deal over it. Unless there is some unwritten Highlander competition going on, account-wide currencies doesn't "hinder" anyone...it only awards people for having multiple toons that can run the content. If you have multiple toons that can run the content, you 'should' be rewarded for it because of the effort it took to get there in the first place. And if you do have a toon that is fully geared and maxed out, it would be that much quicker to gear alts right out of the gate. Still, not sure how that's bad for anyone involved. I mean, if it is that important, then just don't use anything on alts that wasn't obtained by them and keep to a self-inflicted honor system. I have probably over 100 toons with 5-10 MCP Recognition...I'd love to just login one day and be able to buy some hilariously overpriced costume pieces. Not a single one of those toons will ever get enough individually to do anything with them. Unless it just boils down to, "I don't want people to have the same things I have, even though they have done the content the same amount of times..." or possibly, "I only have the 1 character so I can't directly benefit from this." I think an important thing here is that some silver player could use their FF slot to farm and gear up their ATs.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
I certainly don't see the problem with already geared characters playing it - you're still playing the content, so what's the problem here?
Anyway, my key point here was about 'difficulty', and none of these points have anything to do with difficulty.
So you don't think it would be easier to run endgame content with fully geared characters then with undergeared alts? And you don't think it's easier to use dailies from multiple characters to buy stuff for one alt?
So you don't think it would be easier to run endgame content with fully geared characters then with undergeared alts? And you don't think it's easier to use dailies from multiple characters to buy stuff for one alt?
While yes, it'd be easier (and better for your poor teammates) to have a better-geared character farm for alts, having multiple characters pool their efforts to gear up one alt is NOT easier. Faster? Yes. Easier? Explain how. All you're doing is speeding up the grind by doing your runs back to back rather than spreading them out over the course of several days/weeks due to daily caps and such. Let's say something normally takes you 7 daily quests to obtain. You still have to do those dailies 7 times, whether it's with 1 character over the course of 7 days, with 7 characters over the course of 1 day (this can be really time consuming, trust me), or any combination of the two.
There isn't strict team composition or requirements. It requires people pay attention and work as a team. About the only thing really required a decent healer beyond that, good DPS and someone that can hold aggro and take a hit is all that's needed. This idea it requires an ideal team is poppy.
You're contradicting yourself here. No strict requirements, just a good healer, good dps, and someone who can hold aggro and take hits? While this is par for the course in wow content, wow also has strict grouping and itemlevel restrictions in its queued content. There's even a proving grounds requirement before players can queue for heroic dungeons. (Proving grounds is basically a class/role competence test)
By contrast, CO's grouping system is sloppy and pretty much just throws together anyone who signs up, regardless of role or gear strength. This means most of what the queue system throws together for grab/burst/smash/custom alerts would be completely unsuitable for TA.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
TA is much harder than other stuff in Champs. Yes. It requires a level of cooperation similar to (but a little higher than) Fire and Ice. It requires a level of attention similar to Cybermind. It requires a good chunk of time set aside. It requires that the team be formed intentionally instead of through a random queue.
It is still doable by most level 40 characters. Your first few runs will have lots of do-overs, and some complete failures. You will have to learn how things work, and you will see people that won't listen (even some of the expert veteran players might not listen). But you really can learn it, really can form teams to succeed, and really can figure it out. Really.
In just the past week, I was convinced to move from "TA is simply too tough, too long, too hard to form groups" over to "TA is tough, but doable". I wasn't convinced by a bunch of forum posts.
I was convinced by accepting a couple invites, and then making my own groups.
If you want help getting started, please contact me in game @roughbear.
I certainly don't see the problem with already geared characters playing it - you're still playing the content, so what's the problem here?
Anyway, my key point here was about 'difficulty', and none of these points have anything to do with difficulty.
So you don't think it would be easier to run endgame content with fully geared characters then with undergeared alts? And you don't think it's easier to use dailies from multiple characters to buy stuff for one alt?
You can run it in justice gear without ever having played TA before, so what's the difference? Endgame is supposed to be interesting *after* you're fully geared.
Multiple characters farming for one character? Please explain *how* this makes it easier. Be very specific. Don't skip any steps. What makes it 'easier' as opposed to 'faster' (in day terms, not hour terms). I have seen zero warrants for how this makes it easier, and i consider the assertion absolutely ridiculous.
I certainly don't see the problem with already geared characters playing it - you're still playing the content, so what's the problem here?
Anyway, my key point here was about 'difficulty', and none of these points have anything to do with difficulty.
So you don't think it would be easier to run endgame content with fully geared characters then with undergeared alts? And you don't think it's easier to use dailies from multiple characters to buy stuff for one alt?
You can run it in justice gear without ever having played TA before, so what's the difference? Endgame is supposed to be interesting *after* you're fully geared.
Multiple characters farming for one character? Please explain *how* this makes it easier. Be very specific. Don't skip any steps. What makes it 'easier' as opposed to 'faster' (in day terms, not hour terms). I have seen zero warrants for how this makes it easier, and i consider the assertion absolutely ridiculous.
I might do that (probably not since I don't really feel like spending that much time on it) after you admit it will be easier to gear out alts using fully geared characters so we can get this whole "shared currencies do not make things easier" silliness out of the way.
SImple example of shared currency making TA "easier":
*You want to gear your main toon who does not really dedicate to any role in TA (main tank, off-tank, healer, or DPS). My main toon, by the way, is just such a toon. He is a jack-of-all-trades: sorta healer/rezzer, some DPS, powers I think "look neat" but aren't so great.
*You try this toon in TA and find that you have a rough go of it.
*If there were shared currencies, you run two or three DPS toons through TA repeatedly, earning GCR. This role is easier to learn and use than the others, and DPS toons are fairly straightforward to make.
*Finally, you would use shared currencies to equip your desired toon, who never successfully ran TA.
In this model, you only ever have to learn how to play one role in TA, and that role does not have to match your main character. That would make TA easier, separate from the time per GCR question.
Eh, and so what? You still played TA with one of your characters. It's no harder than it had to be for you.
I mean, you can gear a character with Justice who has never played a rampage, and Justice gear is *better than* determination gear for 99% of characters. I'm not seeing the issue.
Before the price hike i geared out all my new 40s in heroic using SCR from other characters. Anyone can spend their account-fungible G or keys to gear out their characters in legion gear. Heck, right now you can run TA with a character and the determination gear *drops* are BoE, so you can gear out your alts that way if you really want to (or buy other people's drops on the AH). Gearing alts with other characters is already a fait accomplit for *all gear*, even determination. This is completely irrelevant to account-wide currencies. The only gear you can't farm with other characters is OSV secondaries, and that's just time consuming, not hard.
Whatever happened to 'play the character you want' - CO is supposed to be alt friendly. Forcing you to play the character you want the currency on is very alt unfriendly.
(I'm glad I have so little interest in determination gear. Being forced to play one character through TA 25 times to make any progress would probably make me quit the game, that's how mind-numbingly boring i find that).
The only thing being able to take whatever character you want into TA truly makes easier is *finding a team you fit on*. And I'd think making it easier for people to actually play and feel like they were doing something useful would be a good thing.
So, in the end, no one can convince you to try learning how to play TA, and you will accept no help in game earning GCR. If so, then I guess I am really done here.
P.S. I really would help, as others have helped me.
So, in the end, no one can convince you to try learning how to play TA, and you will accept no help in game earning GCR. If so, then I guess I am really done here.
P.S. I really would help, as others have helped me.
It's not about 'learning how to play TA'.
I have no interest in being locked into playing one character daily for months on potentially multi-hour content. I have 16 40s and half-a-dozen leveling toons because I want variety. GCR being character-bound kills any interest in TA for me, because I will never amass enough GCR on one character *in a year* to do anything with it.
I would hope that future reviews of content, such as the Nemesis system, would include GCR.
As it stands now, I can see both sides of the argument. For and Against how GCR has been implemented. So unlike my earlier post, I can't really comment either way in case I contradict myself.
But I will say, learning how to play TA in different capacities than what I am comfortable with or what I would normally use, has been quite the experience (may actually prompt me to make a real tank one of these days...).
--
I think ways to expand how GCR is gained in the short term would be something to consider if content that applies or rather rewards GCR is a long way off.
Stuff like:
* Onslaught Dailies - Guardian Defense & Supervillain Attack - Both could grant 5 GCR upon turning in. * Onslaught (larger mission) - Could grant 12 GCR upon turn in. * UNITY Missions - Both UNITY 1 and 2, really need/should grant GCR. If not UNITY 1 then UNITY 2 definitely.
Post Nemesis System Review (if there is one)
* Nemesis mission chain - From creation to final mission each one could grant GCR (@level 40) * Nemesis Confrontation - GCR boxes after defeating Nemesis (this would be after a nemcon revamp or review of nemesis system)
GCR is always going to be gated behind difficult content. We don't want to invalidate any of the content that currently gives it out as a reward by adding it as a reward for something that's a lot easier to complete (Unity and Onslaught, for example).
GCR is always going to be gated behind difficult content. We don't want to invalidate any of the content that currently gives it out as a reward by adding it as a reward for something that's a lot easier to complete (Unity and Onslaught, for example).
Makes sense.
If some content was "reviewed" (which is code for made harder), would the application of GCR be more possible?
The thing that I'm seeing is that some people (as you can see in this thread) really are struggling with TA and all it takes is a weak link in a group for the whole thing to topple, which makes it frustrating. Which leads to quitting which equals No GCR.
I think the prices for things such as GCR would be more easily accepted if there were more ways (currently) to obtain it.
Comments
1) Queued content rolls out with multiple difficulties: Normal, Advanced, and sometimes Elite. Normal is the kind of thing anyone in scrubby quest gear can jump into after hitting max level. Advanced is for decently-geared people who want a bit of a challenge. Finally, Elite is what most players won't likely be able to do because of its gear and skill requirements. Even though I've not really tried TA, I'm pretty sure it falls somewhere between STO's Advanced and Elite based on what I see people saying about it.
2) Unlike CO, queued content isn't the only progression path STO has. We also have battlezones, which are absolutely amazing and I think the CO community would really like them. There's no set grouping, and you can try to do some of the stuff solo if you want, but its generally a good idea to fight alongside fellow players as the objectives reward everyone once anyone completes them. (You have to participate somewhat though or you get nothing, so you can't just idle) Other events, such as the Terran fleet turkey shoot...uh, I mean Terran fleet battle in the final phase of the Badlands battlezone, draw players together naturally. The best part is there's no strings attached. You join when you want, clear several objectives, then leave when you're done.
That said, aside from seasonal event trade-ins (it's as grindy as it sounds) the only reasonable way to get marks (used to progress through reputation) is by engaging in some sort of multiplayer content. The colossally massive difference between STO's approach and CO's approach is that STO's is very inclusive. It provides something for everyone--the geared, more hardcore players get Advanced and Elite difficulty, the casual players or those who just hit max level on a given character have Normal difficulty queues, and everyone has battlezones. Meanwhile, CO rolls out TA and...oh. It's only for some people. What a shame.
Oh, also "soloists" (there's really nothing wrong with wanting to play a game a certain way) in STO can instead opt to just use gear from the endgame-level Featured Episodes and disregard the reputation system entirely. The FE gear occasionally is really good (such as the Chronometric set), but generally, would be considered about on par with Heroic gear for CO in terms of effectiveness and before the SCR price hike, difficulty of obtaining.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Actually it does. You want things to be easier so you have to be less effort into it.
Alrighty, sure!
42 40s, LTSer.
"Wasn't in DPS role"
"Had LR on a DPS passive(I understand this one but there have been DPS with Defensive passives such as invuln, LR, regen, etc..and quite high at that)."
Point being, it can be said any can do it, but when I try to bring any, that toon is basically looked at as an anomaly/berated for my choices. Just thought I'd add my experience on one of my toons.
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
In either case, I stand corrected, and this makes it all that much more unfortunate that some people are claiming that just about anyone can run it. Undergeared people generally won't make it through elite ground queues without being a hindrance, and if TA is worse...yeah. Ouch.
There isn't strict team composition or requirements. It requires people pay attention and work as a team. About the only thing really required a decent healer beyond that, good DPS and someone that can hold aggro and take a hit is all that's needed. This idea it requires an ideal team is poppy.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The only thing I would really like is the electro pulse power, but I'm fine without it. I'm sure GCR or something similar will come from a lockbox at some point, so I'm not too worried about it at all.
I'm glad people enjoy the content, I'm just still really burnt out with dungeons and raids from years of nothing but that in WoW. Alerts are a nice, short stint of content, and those are about as team-oriented that I care to be for now.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
Handle @brayv
This is why I like universal currencies. At the moment I am grinding away with one guy to get the 975 tokens for Valerian's halo. About half way there and getting more and more bored with it every day (averaging 15 SCR/day). How much more fun and interesting it would be for me if I could use several characters for this purpose by pooling the rewards! I have to play the same amount of time to get the halo, I just get to have more fun doing it. Fun = good.
1. I use all my 40s in endgame content, excepting maybe one (who did plenty of endgame content back before on alert).
2. Account currencies don't make it "easier". You have to play the content just as much. The claim that it becomes 'easier' is nonsensical on-face.
Unless all your characters need exactly the same amount of GCR/SCR, and/or daily missions and DR on currency farming is removed, having account currencies does make things (a lot) easier.
(dumb quoting is broken for me in half the threads)
And I am calling BS on that. For starters if you use all your 40s you either have very few forties or a lot more time and patience than I do.
Second, yes it does. Look at Rampages. It's a hell of a lot easier to gear up one, and even multiple characters, the more alts you have than it is to do it with a couple of characters. If you think that account currency would not make it easier, then I want to sell you a bridge.
I know of several people that had MULTIPLE characters geared up after the first rotation of Rampage, so saying it wouldn't speed things up is just being ridiculously silly and naive at this point.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Just because i don't use a character *daily* to do endgame doesn't mean i don't use them to do endgame stuff. I play the character i want to play at the time, which rotates across most of my 40s. (Also, depending on what role is needed). I have 16 40s, 15 of which get played at least 1/week in some capacity, and all of whom have played rampages (to choose a particular content type) at some point.
Easy/
1. Speed =/= difficulty. Your entire point is false on face because you think this equivalency holds.
2. It's not really faster. Yes, playing 16 40s would mean getting tokens 16x as fast in theory (if you could play *all of them*), but it still takes *just as long* (in days) as the person with one character to fully gear *all of them*, because you need 16x as much.
3. You can't actually reach that theoretical point where it's just as fast. No one has time to play 16 alts through TA per day. Heck, most people don't have time to play 16 characters in rampages in a day through all the diminishing returns. (Even playing 16 characters once each in a rampage is a lot of time). And I'm not even at the high end of altaholism - it would be physically impossible for Bluhman to play all of his 100+ alts through TA in a day, even if he didn't sleep and had the best team ever helping him the whole time. Which means people with a lot of alts actually *fall behind* the person with one character.
4. Yes, you'd gear *one* character faster. Oh noes - you have all those other toons that you're actively playing at least some of the time too. Those people who geared multiple toons for Justice in a single cycle (a) had a *lot* of time on their hands to play that much, (b) played the rampage more than 6x as much as the person with a single character, on average, (c) did not gear all their toons.
(In particular, because the token DR on rampage lasts *the three days the particular rampage is up*, it takes at least 6 characters to reasonably complete 1 justice set, so it's still 1/6th the tokens needed for all the characters involved, barring exceptional luck where you manage a second token on a single character - something which could happen to the one character player too!)
5. The only way it looks faster is relative to the diminishing returns, because in terms of days spent, you can do it faster. But in terms of hours spent its *exactly the same*. The single character player is just forced to spread it out more. Thus, in terms of time spent on the content, it is not faster at all.
6. If it was such a big advantage, more people would spend money buying extra character slots. (Or convert Q to Z to do so). That should be a financial incentive for Cryptic to have more account-wide currencies, not less.
7. Most people with tons of alts don't have time to play all of them seriously every day. It's why many of my alts are in various states of completion on OSV secondaries. Some have all three, some have two, some have one, some have barely started. If OSV currencies were account-bound, i'd still have the same number of OSV tokens (which might translate into a couple more pieces completed, but not as many tokens remaining), and my characters would be closer to all 3 or none in equip stages. And I'd still need the same number of total tokens to fully gear all my characters.
And that's when it takes ~5 min to get 300 VT each day. Yes, it's too much time to spend 5 minutes on 16 characters each for OSV secondaries (and do other things I want to do). You really think most people with tons of alts would be able to play all of them through TA daily? Most of us don't live in the game.
And funny you should mention that, since most people who consider it an advantage do have more character slots for that purpose. You really keep trying to ice skate uphill don't you?
So many false claims in your post. It is a huge advantage to have multiple alts to do Rampages. Trying to claim it's not is just silly. Because you can get multiple tokens in the fraction of the time you can do it with a single or two characters. And you keep trying to deny that fact. You cannot earn tokens on a single character at the same rate you can earn them on multiple characters. I guarantee you if someone using one character versus someone using six, the person doing the same amount of runs, would walk away with far less tokens than someone using 6. And no, you cannot refute this.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
To reiterate some key points:
goalposts/ I've moved no goalposts. Please tell me what goalposts I've moved and what *my* previous stance was which is different. Saying stuff doesn't make it true.
difficulty/ Please explain how it makes it *easier* to be able to productively play more now? Last i checked, difficulty was a function of how hard something was, not how much time you could spend doing it. How does making you wait a day, a week, or 12 days make something *harder*. You have never once answered this question, and it destroys your entire position.
People with alts/ great, proves what i said. And its financially advantageous for cryptic, so i don't see the problem. This is not evidence against me, it's proof that account-currencies are to cryptic's advantage.
Time/ you're simply confused. You don't get tokens any faster with multiple alts in terms of hours played (on rampages or anything else). And that's the most relevant metric, because that's *actual play time*. Multiple alts simply lets you have more choice over which days you spend that time. For people with a lot of time on their hands, it can mean fewer *days* to a set of justice, but the *hours* are the same. We need to be explicit and clear about units on time here, because you are either confusing them or valuing only one of them, and either is problematic.
Token earning rate/
1. You're wrong as a matter of hours played on the content. A single character earns the same tokens per hour as multiple characters. Multiple characters can simply spend more hours/day.
2. The maximum rate of token earning per day is *proportional* to the number of characters. The need for tokens is also proportional to the number of characters, so this balances out. If it takes a single character 6 cycles of rampages to get a justice set, it takes a player with 6 characters the same number of cycles to get a justice set for all of them. Sure, the player with 6 characters gets a justice set per cycle, but he spent 6x as much time doing so, and he needs 6x as many.
That conclusively demonstrates that the person with 6 characters doesn't save any time, but loses time because they have to play 6x as much. There's no 'advantage', he doesn't get tokens 'faster', he gets tokens proportional to the number of characters for proportionally more hours, but also needs proportionally more.
3. Your number of runs analysis is flawed, because the person with one character *will do fewer runs*. The diminishing returns basically means that once you get a token you should stop with that character. So the person with one character gets a token *as fast as the person with 6 characters*, and then is done till the next rampage. The person with 6 characters will play 6x as many rampages.
If the person with one character did do the same number of runs without wasting time after diminishing returns, they'd have the same number of tokens as the player with 6 characters, the game would just force them to spread those runs out over 6x as many days.
If I run them all with the same character, I do one daily and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 26 GCR.
If I run them with three different characters, I do three dailies and get an additional 7 per run, for a total of 36 GCR.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The single character player actually comes out ahead in days here, because he gets 26 GCR/day towards *one* piece, while the three character account only progresses 36GCR/day towards 3 pieces. 26/n is bigger than 36/3n, whether the currency is account-bound or character bound.
Note: still has nothing to do with being easy or hard.
Another way to put it:
A character wants three pieces of GCR gear, costing a total of 300 GCR. Using a single character, earning, for instance, 26 GCR per day, gets 312 GCR in 12 days. You could then work on your next toon, and a third; after 36 days, all are outfitted, with 12 GCR left per character. There is no carry-over for leftover GCR to help with outfitting several toons. You could, of course, do two less runs on the last day, since you would already have 300 GCR by then.
If the currency were account-bound, you could rotate among 3 characters, and earn 324 GCR in 9 days. Keep rotating those same three characters, and you will have all three outfit in 27 days, with 72 GCR left over. In this case, it took less time, and you have a more easily usable amount of GCR left. If you go to a fourth toon, you earn the next piece in nearly two days less time.
Something else--for Justice Gear, a character with a full set can still be usefully used to earn tokens. If currency were account-wide, like that, then characters who have all the gear could still be used to earn currency for characters that don't.
I am sympathetic to the idea of account-wide currency. I want costume stuff, and I would like to rotate more toons through things while earning that currency. It's annoying to have enough GCR for a costume piece when it is spread across five characters.
That being said, account-wide currencies heavily favor players with alts over one character. The more alts, the more favored (up to a maximum play time).
P. S. There is also a corner-case where the maximum play time doesn't allow for more than one character to be played per day anyway.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
With character-bound currency, this won't happen.
Anyway, my example above illustrates the situation more clearly. If currency were account-wide, those with many alts would be heavily favored for earning currency (because of the GCR earned on a daily mission, once per toon).
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So, you can't really fit that in a zone shout. Usually, you are going to find that from friends and then people you meet who have experience running TA.
roughbear/ it similarly does not bother me that account-wide currencies allow you to use 'rollover' currency efficiently. That's actually an advantage of the system, not a disadvantage. Leftover currency that you have no good use for and spent effort to acquire is terrible given the effort involved.
And the magnitude of the rollover effect is tiny. How many complete gear sets do you have to get before you have a 'free' set from rollover? Using cost = 300 and reward = 12, there's actually no rollover at all. (12 divides evenly into 300, 300/12 = 25, and this is obvious by inspection because 300 = 240 + 60).
Anyway, neither of these change the fact that (1) it has nothing to do with difficulty, (2) it doesn't really let you play the content less (the rollover effect is going to be pretty minor), and will probably involve you playing more (if you're gearing multiple characters, you're going to play the content more, even if it isn't all of them).
I certainly don't see the problem with already geared characters playing it - you're still playing the content, so what's the problem here?
Anyway, my key point here was about 'difficulty', and none of these points have anything to do with difficulty.
I have 27 40s.:
- 3 pieces of heroics gear; 3(150)=450 SCR.
- 19(450)=8550
- 450/22=20. 8550/20=427.5d*2h=855d/12mo.= 71.25mo./12mo.=5.9(~6 years)
Let's for the sake of stability, introduce a hypothetical. This is what I would consider a casual scenario(as in those who don't have enormous amounts of time to farm SCR): The mission dailies. This is in essence both the alert dailies(not vigilance because that's technically unreliable(thank you Cybermind bug!![**Disclaimer**: This is based on the premise of multiple alts as well as if this unified currency were placed into affect. I am in no way, shape, or form stating that this will be the time it takes for everyone to accomplish this goal, nor am I in anyway stating that the community of CO as a whole will follow/adhere to what is contained in this post. For all intents and purposes the math displayed here is purely HYPOTHETICAL and, while the numeric values are accurate, it is solely based; A.) On the off-chance that someone wishes to gear out 19 level 40s, and B.) They only have a certain amount of time to play a day(for this math, 2 hours was used as the hypothetical base)Also, in this scenario TA would most likely not be a daily thing but for the sake of hypotheticals and not knowing if AP/CS give SCR(haven't ran em in a while)., As well as trying to get any and all potential quick(and mission-based) sources of SCR, it was included].
42 40s, LTSer.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
Handle @brayv
By contrast, CO's grouping system is sloppy and pretty much just throws together anyone who signs up, regardless of role or gear strength. This means most of what the queue system throws together for grab/burst/smash/custom alerts would be completely unsuitable for TA.
TA is much harder than other stuff in Champs. Yes. It requires a level of cooperation similar to (but a little higher than) Fire and Ice. It requires a level of attention similar to Cybermind. It requires a good chunk of time set aside. It requires that the team be formed intentionally instead of through a random queue.
It is still doable by most level 40 characters. Your first few runs will have lots of do-overs, and some complete failures. You will have to learn how things work, and you will see people that won't listen (even some of the expert veteran players might not listen). But you really can learn it, really can form teams to succeed, and really can figure it out. Really.
In just the past week, I was convinced to move from "TA is simply too tough, too long, too hard to form groups" over to "TA is tough, but doable". I wasn't convinced by a bunch of forum posts.
I was convinced by accepting a couple invites, and then making my own groups.
If you want help getting started, please contact me in game @roughbear.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Multiple characters farming for one character? Please explain *how* this makes it easier. Be very specific. Don't skip any steps. What makes it 'easier' as opposed to 'faster' (in day terms, not hour terms). I have seen zero warrants for how this makes it easier, and i consider the assertion absolutely ridiculous.
*You want to gear your main toon who does not really dedicate to any role in TA (main tank, off-tank, healer, or DPS). My main toon, by the way, is just such a toon. He is a jack-of-all-trades: sorta healer/rezzer, some DPS, powers I think "look neat" but aren't so great.
*You try this toon in TA and find that you have a rough go of it.
*If there were shared currencies, you run two or three DPS toons through TA repeatedly, earning GCR. This role is easier to learn and use than the others, and DPS toons are fairly straightforward to make.
*Finally, you would use shared currencies to equip your desired toon, who never successfully ran TA.
In this model, you only ever have to learn how to play one role in TA, and that role does not have to match your main character. That would make TA easier, separate from the time per GCR question.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I mean, you can gear a character with Justice who has never played a rampage, and Justice gear is *better than* determination gear for 99% of characters. I'm not seeing the issue.
Before the price hike i geared out all my new 40s in heroic using SCR from other characters. Anyone can spend their account-fungible G or keys to gear out their characters in legion gear. Heck, right now you can run TA with a character and the determination gear *drops* are BoE, so you can gear out your alts that way if you really want to (or buy other people's drops on the AH). Gearing alts with other characters is already a fait accomplit for *all gear*, even determination. This is completely irrelevant to account-wide currencies. The only gear you can't farm with other characters is OSV secondaries, and that's just time consuming, not hard.
Whatever happened to 'play the character you want' - CO is supposed to be alt friendly. Forcing you to play the character you want the currency on is very alt unfriendly.
(I'm glad I have so little interest in determination gear. Being forced to play one character through TA 25 times to make any progress would probably make me quit the game, that's how mind-numbingly boring i find that).
The only thing being able to take whatever character you want into TA truly makes easier is *finding a team you fit on*. And I'd think making it easier for people to actually play and feel like they were doing something useful would be a good thing.
P.S. I really would help, as others have helped me.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I have no interest in being locked into playing one character daily for months on potentially multi-hour content. I have 16 40s and half-a-dozen leveling toons because I want variety. GCR being character-bound kills any interest in TA for me, because I will never amass enough GCR on one character *in a year* to do anything with it.
As it stands now, I can see both sides of the argument. For and Against how GCR has been implemented. So unlike my earlier post, I can't really comment either way in case I contradict myself.
But I will say, learning how to play TA in different capacities than what I am comfortable with or what I would normally use, has been quite the experience (may actually prompt me to make a real tank one of these days...).
--
I think ways to expand how GCR is gained in the short term would be something to consider if content that applies or rather rewards GCR is a long way off.
Stuff like:
* Onslaught Dailies - Guardian Defense & Supervillain Attack - Both could grant 5 GCR upon turning in.
* Onslaught (larger mission) - Could grant 12 GCR upon turn in.
* UNITY Missions - Both UNITY 1 and 2, really need/should grant GCR. If not UNITY 1 then UNITY 2 definitely.
Post Nemesis System Review (if there is one)
* Nemesis mission chain - From creation to final mission each one could grant GCR (@level 40)
* Nemesis Confrontation - GCR boxes after defeating Nemesis (this would be after a nemcon revamp or review of nemesis system)
This has actually given me an idea...
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
If some content was "reviewed" (which is code for made harder), would the application of GCR be more possible?
The thing that I'm seeing is that some people (as you can see in this thread) really are struggling with TA and all it takes is a weak link in a group for the whole thing to topple, which makes it frustrating. Which leads to quitting which equals No GCR.
I think the prices for things such as GCR would be more easily accepted if there were more ways (currently) to obtain it.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________