STO does something close already with its engineer power, FORCE FIELD DOME. it creates a dome shaped zone which PUSHES any enemies out and keeps them from entering the dome, while allies are free to pass into or out of it. the dome also grants a large damage resistance buff to allies.
Shouldn't be hard to implement really.
I would like to know how I forced you to type that in either case. That would be a neat trick I didn't know I had.
Ok I have re-read your suggestions and I would like to add some thing as well
Force Detonation
While I adore this power animation! I have to say I hate the KNOCK SCatter effect (really not a big fan of knocks really)
Force Detonation should get an ADVANTAGE which instead of exploding and knocking around the enemies it should IMPLODE and Knock IN THE CENTER
This not only make the power less annoying but it would also create utility combos
Force Detonation -> Knocks the enemies in the center -> Charge Force Cascade -> Hits everything
Crushing Wave
I love everything you suggested, damage per 0.5 sec is nice change and I believe it MAY fix the problem of Crushing wave not triggering Concetration/Chilled Form
i want this power to SHINE
however, except of the Concetration/Chilled Form issues, I have noticed something wonky with the Hit Detection of this power! compared it with MIGHT'S Shockwave the enemies wont get hit by the power if they walk into your cone
Kinetic Reverberation
WE NEED THIS THEMATIC ENERGY UNLOCK
Make it TOP priority when Force get a possible revamp
MSA and Overdrive both suck for this powerframe
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I almost feel like some power adjustments have been linked to events planned for CO's content OR linked to wider things like movies or in some cases world events/news...I doubt we'll see anything regarding Force...but I hope I'm wrong on that.
I've got a lot of ideas for future force powers, and you've touched on one of them with the idea of implosion abilities within Force.
I think based on the suggested version of Force Detonation, it would be much better for me to introduce my suggested power as a new Force ability rather than tacking it onto Force Detonation (which frankly has quite a bit going for it anyway based on what I've suggested in the OP).
As for Crushing Wave, yeah...it's needed help for a long time now, because there's very little reason, outside of "it is not scheduled to be reviewed", why Crushing Wave has remained so bad. So making sure it proc's what it's supposed to AND it works with forms would definitely be included.
Kinetic Reverberation - 100% agreed
As for what happened to this thread? I'll give you one guess.
I don't see Force Wall ever being a viable idea. Not as an actual collision barrier.
You may not, but it was actually possible once upon a time. It would have to naturally be adjusted to be useful and not 1000% game breaking in CO.
I think what I'll do is set up a version of it and put it on the OP, alongside my other suggestion for Implosive abilities within Force (once I find that damn list... )
Force Barrier has been added to the OP under "Additional powers" (at the end!)
Values for the force field are quite high, but then again, I'd expect this to be a tier 3 support/defensive ability that would come into play in something like Gravitar or Fire and Ice. Thinking about it...since it has quite a few restrictions...it may actually need more HP, but that's all down to testing. If possible it would probably not work in PvP Instances, but that's up for discussion.
Side note: Force Crush already exists in game, Kevin Poe (back when he was a force user) used it. Would be neat to see it return and be balanced for Players.
Another thing I'm curious to hear thoughts on...is this:
Inertial Dampening Field.
I've got ideas to turn this into the first ever stacking team form power:
- IDF's damage absorption has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased but has a hard cap of 200. - IDF now also produces a stacking buff which increases your defense per stack and your defense by half that amount. (Stacks to 5). - IDF's damage absorption applies to team mates at full strength but applies to you at half strength.
OR
Just improve its utility:
- Inertial Dampening Field or IDF has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased. - IDF now applies its affects in a 100ft sphere. - Ranking up IDF produces a greater defensive effect than previous.
Another thing I'm curious to hear thoughts on...is this:
Inertial Dampening Field.
I've got ideas to turn this into the first ever stacking team form power:
- IDF's damage absorption has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased but has a hard cap of 200. - IDF now also produces a stacking buff which increases your defense per stack and your defense by half that amount. (Stacks to 5). - IDF's damage absorption applies to team mates at full strength but applies to you at half strength.
OR
Just improve its utility:
- Inertial Dampening Field or IDF has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased. - IDF now applies its affects in a 100ft sphere. - Ranking up IDF produces a greater defensive effect than previous.
Thoughts?
Pros and Cons to both: Stacking IDF Pros: Better support function via higher absorbtion Added defense/resistance per stack Potential for energy return like other forms Potentially no longer needs ranks Cons: Reduced tank function via half-strength personal benefit
Utility IDF Pros: Better support & tank function via higher absorbtion Better support function via wider range Better benefit from ranks Cons: Still requires ranks
I vote improved utility... I'd rather it still require ranks than for it to lose it's benefit for tanking
Pros and Cons to both: Stacking IDF Pros: Better support function via higher absorbtion Added defense/resistance per stack Potential for energy return like other forms Potentially no longer needs ranks Cons: Reduced tank function via half-strength personal benefit
Utility IDF Pros: Better support & tank function via higher absorbtion Better support function via wider range Better benefit from ranks Cons: Still requires ranks
I vote improved utility... I'd rather it still require ranks than for it to lose it's benefit for tanking
Ye, she reads the suggestions forums. She doesn't respond to anything of course since people would go nuts. You can tell she reads them cause the recent Bestial additions are eerily ( In some cases almost exactly ) similar to a post that was made suggesting new bestial powers. If she found your ideas interesting and doable, she probably has this thread bookmarked.
Someday Force will get Revamped and it will be glorious
and I won't be afraid to build a Force DPS neither using Crushing wave with shame
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Knock back is supposed to be worth something, yes? I mean, for all the irritation and aggravation it can cause team mates it is supposed to be an advantage, right? So how about adding a 0 point advantage to all applicable force powers that trades the knock back for a knock down?
If they wanted to mix it up, giving different attacks different 0-point options (bonus damage, slows, stuns, holds, knock-tos, interrupts, whatever) that would be great, I just expect that they would look for a single alternative and knock downs probably make the most sense thematically across the board.
Also suggested in another thread that giving some force attacks the ability to heal friendly force fields, akin to how celestial attacks can be used to heal friendly HP, could be a big aid to people trying to tank with PFF.
Knock back is supposed to be worth something, yes? I mean, for all the irritation and aggravation it can cause team mates it is supposed to be an advantage, right? So how about adding a 0 point advantage to all applicable force powers that trades the knock back for a knock down?
If they wanted to mix it up, giving different attacks different 0-point options (bonus damage, slows, stuns, holds, knock-tos, interrupts, whatever) that would be great, I just expect that they would look for a single alternative and knock downs probably make the most sense thematically across the board.
I believe that the problem with 0-point advantages is that the Devs don't like them (IIRC).
They basically have to create a new version of the same power which works slightly differently. Most of the in game 0 point advantages that I have come across are mostly cosmetic variations, so...the option for dual ID blades on Ego Form and ID Mastery or the old Runes Aura option on AoRP.
What you've suggested here is an actual functionality change to a power, which would definitely come at a cost moreso than be a 0 point advantage, especially when you include things like Crowd Control or Additional Damage.
Also suggested in another thread that giving some force attacks the ability to heal friendly force fields, akin to how celestial attacks can be used to heal friendly HP, could be a big aid to people trying to tank with PFF.
If you read the original post, you'll see that I've suggested something similar to this.
What you've suggested here is an actual functionality change to a power, which would definitely come at a cost moreso than be a 0 point advantage, especially when you include things like Crowd Control or Additional Damage.
I am suggesting trading one built-in advantage for another, not adding anything extra. Big difference. If knockback is so worthless that any sort of other advantage would be more powerful then maybe force needs a complete overhaul to make it more competitive.
And so what if it will require work on the part of the devs? So will every other one of these suggestions.
I am suggesting trading one built-in advantage for another, not adding anything extra. Big difference. If knockback is so worthless that any sort of other advantage would be more powerful then maybe force needs a complete overhaul to make it more competitive.
And so what if it will require work on the part of the devs? So will every other one of these suggestions.
It would be adding something extra as not everyone would be forced to take those advantages, so you would still have some people who are using knock back/original versions of the powers.
The whole point of this thread was to revamp the Force Power set, which is why I reviewed every single Force set power in the OP and suggested changes...
When I say "additional work", it means that time spend implementing such advantages would simply be better spent revamping the powers instead.
Not saying your suggestions wouldn't work, but there'd have to be so many different versions of the same power created with those effects that I think development time would be better spent on simply adjusting the base functions of the powers to be more interesting...which is what I did in the OP, according to what I think would be nice to see in the set.
well, the devs certainly don't seem to have a problem with making so many different versions of the same power anymore, because they threw anywhere from 1 to 4 extra advantages on just about EVERY power in the sorcery tree
well, the devs certainly don't seem to have a problem with making so many different versions of the same power anymore, because they threw anywhere from 1 to 4 extra advantages on just about EVERY power in the sorcery tree
That is very true lmao.
At any rate, I really hope Force gets reviewed and improved in a way similar to what I've outlined...perhaps slightly less complex though (unless that's easy to accomplish)
- Streamlined it a little bit to be less complicated. - Tried to follow the current review formula a little bit - IDF is now suggested to be an active defensive ultimate. - Field Surge has been updated. - Containment Field has been updated. - Potential Energy Form has been suggested. - Force Barrage and Force Blast have been updated. - Protection Field has been updated. - Force Detonation has been updated.
One thing this force revamp thread is missing is gravitar's black hole creating power. Add plz.
Hmm...I do think you have a point here...it's funny.
Cyrone originally suggested the Singularity ability, and it was stuck on vehicles instead.
I think I'll whip something up and see if it works...
Only thing I'm concerned about is that "Singularity" kinda feels like an Ultimate ability, than a regular ability.
Sure for some concepts it can be a regular thing, but it's quite visually impressive (I'm thinking of the quick fire, drag in and explode version on vehicles)
There's also the issue of making sure the power doesn't make people sick...
I still don't like how PFF works. If the shield drops it's like you don't have a passive. I was going to suggest that the energy form cancel mechanic be removed but I'm glad someone else did.
Have a read of my version. The one that I've posted here, is actually a bit diffferent to the refined version I have with my other full powerset review documents but it is still far better than the current PFF on LIVE.
You can bend space to your will using your immense Force powers, so much so that for a brief period of time, you can create and control a singularity which heavily disrupts everything within its reach.
- Maintain Ability (6 second max duration) - 25 second cool down - 35ft PBAoE - AoE Reverse Repel mechanics - Increasing damage as targets get closer to Singularity. - 40% chance to apply Disruptive Force (per tick).
Advantage: Gravitational Pulse (3pts)
- Gravitational Pulse advantage lowers the cool down for Singularity from 25 seconds to 10 seconds and adds a knock to all targets once Singularity is fully maintained. - Reduced chance to apply Disruptive Force (15% chance per tick) - Reduces PBAoE range to 25ft - Reduced damage
OR
Singularity – Uncontrollable Summon
You can create a small localized singularity which you can unleash wherever you desire. Your singularity will indiscriminately attack and attempt to destroy your primary target and damage any enemies within its reach, until its energy has dissipated.
- Uncontrollable Summon / Pet - 15 second cooldown - 17 second duration before despawning. - AoE reverse repel mechanics - Maintained damage to all enemies and objects within 20ft of Singularity.
Advantage: Quantum Fluctuation
- Your Singularity will now explode violently when it is close to despawning.
are they dealing pure crushing damage or a mix of crushing and particle? since black holes tend to emit shedloads of radiation and radiation is represented ingame as particle damage, it's something to consider
50f AoE means no one would be able to use it at ape without hitting one or more of the hearts
and for that matter, it would probably also hit baby at dino too, but a little bit of damage every 90 seconds shouldn't be that big a deal as long as the tank's doing well
no idea about eidolon and his orbs, because i haven't done that fight yet so i don't know where things spawn
50f AoE means no one would be able to use it at ape without hitting one or more of the hearts
and for that matter, it would probably also hit baby at dino too, but a little bit of damage every 90 seconds shouldn't be that big a deal as long as the tank's doing well
no idea about eidolon and his orbs, because i haven't done that fight yet so i don't know where things spawn
I've just edited the Singularity description, so it will go after your primary target.
EDIT: Just realized this suggestion is almost 2 years old \o/
of course you aren't sure; the person i originally made that reply to, that being @gradii, was muted a few months ago, so all his posts everywhere have vanished
of course you aren't sure; the person i originally made that reply to, that being @gradii, was muted a few months ago, so all his posts everywhere have vanished
Instead of keeping it as a form, or changing it to an active defense, why not try it out as a support passive that gives teammates a baby version of Invulnerability (flat mitigation + small amount of damage resistance) similar to how AoRP gives a baby Defiance (a larger amount of damage resistance) to everyone? It'd allow it to keep its theme as a team-wide flat damage mitigation passive effect without denying the user a form in order to do so.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Instead of keeping it as a form, or changing it to an active defense, why not try it out as a support passive that gives teammates a baby version of Invulnerability (flat mitigation + small amount of damage resistance) similar to how AoRP gives a baby Defiance (a larger amount of damage resistance) to everyone? It'd allow it to keep its theme as a team-wide flat damage mitigation passive effect without denying the user a form in order to do so.
In my proposal I've changed it to an Active Ultimate IIRC, reason being is that I think IDF should remain as something you can have on builds in addition to your passive...however...it may be changed into a new passive...it's not an idea without merit IMO.
Thinking about it, it would be nice to have a supportive passive in Force. I'd probably cut the damage resistance to self portion and have it apply a shield for self portion (keeping in line with the Force Field theme) but have flat mitigation and dmg resist for others and mitigation for self.
^ Can I cast in my lot for both the new support passive and the team-based defensive ultimate?
It would be nice if both can be done!
I just hope the Development Team have enough time to allocate to sets like Force/Earth because they need fleshing out. Ideally as much time as what was spent on Infernal and Bestial SN is needed IMO.
Comments
So you are trying to say you didn't say this? I just want to be clear.
I would like to know how I forced you to type that in either case. That would be a neat trick I didn't know I had.
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Ok I have re-read your suggestions and I would like to add some thing as well
Force Detonation
While I adore this power animation! I have to say I hate the KNOCK SCatter effect (really not a big fan of knocks really)
Force Detonation should get an ADVANTAGE which instead of exploding and knocking around the enemies it should IMPLODE and Knock IN THE CENTER
This not only make the power less annoying but it would also create utility combos
Force Detonation -> Knocks the enemies in the center -> Charge Force Cascade -> Hits everything
Crushing Wave
I love everything you suggested, damage per 0.5 sec is nice change and I believe it MAY fix the problem of Crushing wave not triggering Concetration/Chilled Form
i want this power to SHINE
however, except of the Concetration/Chilled Form issues, I have noticed something wonky with the Hit Detection of this power! compared it with MIGHT'S Shockwave the enemies wont get hit by the power if they walk into your cone
Kinetic Reverberation
WE NEED THIS THEMATIC ENERGY UNLOCK
Make it TOP priority when Force get a possible revamp
MSA and Overdrive both suck for this powerframe
@avianos
I've got a lot of ideas for future force powers, and you've touched on one of them with the idea of implosion abilities within Force.
I think based on the suggested version of Force Detonation, it would be much better for me to introduce my suggested power as a new Force ability rather than tacking it onto Force Detonation (which frankly has quite a bit going for it anyway based on what I've suggested in the OP).
As for Crushing Wave, yeah...it's needed help for a long time now, because there's very little reason, outside of "it is not scheduled to be reviewed", why Crushing Wave has remained so bad. So making sure it proc's what it's supposed to AND it works with forms would definitely be included.
Kinetic Reverberation - 100% agreed
As for what happened to this thread? I'll give you one guess.
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I think what I'll do is set up a version of it and put it on the OP, alongside my other suggestion for Implosive abilities within Force (once I find that damn list... )
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Values for the force field are quite high, but then again, I'd expect this to be a tier 3 support/defensive ability that would come into play in something like Gravitar or Fire and Ice. Thinking about it...since it has quite a few restrictions...it may actually need more HP, but that's all down to testing. If possible it would probably not work in PvP Instances, but that's up for discussion.
Side note: Force Crush already exists in game, Kevin Poe (back when he was a force user) used it. Would be neat to see it return and be balanced for Players.
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Inertial Dampening Field.
I've got ideas to turn this into the first ever stacking team form power:
- IDF's damage absorption has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased but has a hard cap of 200.
- IDF now also produces a stacking buff which increases your defense per stack and your defense by half that amount. (Stacks to 5).
- IDF's damage absorption applies to team mates at full strength but applies to you at half strength.
OR
Just improve its utility:
- Inertial Dampening Field or IDF has been adjusted to scale better with super stats and the damage absorption it provides has been increased.
- IDF now applies its affects in a 100ft sphere.
- Ranking up IDF produces a greater defensive effect than previous.
Thoughts?
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Stacking IDF
Pros:
Better support function via higher absorbtion
Added defense/resistance per stack
Potential for energy return like other forms
Potentially no longer needs ranks
Cons:
Reduced tank function via half-strength personal benefit
Utility IDF
Pros:
Better support & tank function via higher absorbtion
Better support function via wider range
Better benefit from ranks
Cons:
Still requires ranks
I vote improved utility... I'd rather it still require ranks than for it to lose it's benefit for tanking
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well...I have no way of knowing lol
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
i made a single offhand comment about giving bite a rabies advantage a month back, and lo and behold - bite got a rabies advantage
although, that may not have been my comment...maybe someone on the team plays druids in diablo 2
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
EDIT: Edited the OP somewhat
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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and I won't be afraid to build a Force DPS neither using Crushing wave with shame
So how about adding a 0 point advantage to all applicable force powers that trades the knock back for a knock down?
If they wanted to mix it up, giving different attacks different 0-point options (bonus damage, slows, stuns, holds, knock-tos, interrupts, whatever) that would be great, I just expect that they would look for a single alternative and knock downs probably make the most sense thematically across the board.
Also suggested in another thread that giving some force attacks the ability to heal friendly force fields, akin to how celestial attacks can be used to heal friendly HP, could be a big aid to people trying to tank with PFF.
They basically have to create a new version of the same power which works slightly differently. Most of the in game 0 point advantages that I have come across are mostly cosmetic variations, so...the option for dual ID blades on Ego Form and ID Mastery or the old Runes Aura option on AoRP.
What you've suggested here is an actual functionality change to a power, which would definitely come at a cost moreso than be a 0 point advantage, especially when you include things like Crowd Control or Additional Damage.
If you read the original post, you'll see that I've suggested something similar to this.
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And so what if it will require work on the part of the devs? So will every other one of these suggestions.
The whole point of this thread was to revamp the Force Power set, which is why I reviewed every single Force set power in the OP and suggested changes...
When I say "additional work", it means that time spend implementing such advantages would simply be better spent revamping the powers instead.
Not saying your suggestions wouldn't work, but there'd have to be so many different versions of the same power created with those effects that I think development time would be better spent on simply adjusting the base functions of the powers to be more interesting...which is what I did in the OP, according to what I think would be nice to see in the set.
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At any rate, I really hope Force gets reviewed and improved in a way similar to what I've outlined...perhaps slightly less complex though (unless that's easy to accomplish)
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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- Streamlined it a little bit to be less complicated.
- Tried to follow the current review formula a little bit
- IDF is now suggested to be an active defensive ultimate.
- Field Surge has been updated.
- Containment Field has been updated.
- Potential Energy Form has been suggested.
- Force Barrage and Force Blast have been updated.
- Protection Field has been updated.
- Force Detonation has been updated.
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Cyrone originally suggested the Singularity ability, and it was stuck on vehicles instead.
I think I'll whip something up and see if it works...
Only thing I'm concerned about is that "Singularity" kinda feels like an Ultimate ability, than a regular ability.
Sure for some concepts it can be a regular thing, but it's quite visually impressive (I'm thinking of the quick fire, drag in and explode version on vehicles)
There's also the issue of making sure the power doesn't make people sick...
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Singularity – Maintain – Debuff – Repel
You can bend space to your will using your immense Force powers, so much so that for a brief period of time, you can create and control a singularity which heavily disrupts everything within its reach.
- Maintain Ability (6 second max duration)
- 25 second cool down
- 35ft PBAoE
- AoE Reverse Repel mechanics
- Increasing damage as targets get closer to Singularity.
- 40% chance to apply Disruptive Force (per tick).
Advantage: Gravitational Pulse (3pts)
- Gravitational Pulse advantage lowers the cool down for Singularity from 25 seconds to 10 seconds and adds a knock to all targets once Singularity is fully maintained.
- Reduced chance to apply Disruptive Force (15% chance per tick)
- Reduces PBAoE range to 25ft
- Reduced damage
OR
Singularity – Uncontrollable Summon
You can create a small localized singularity which you can unleash wherever you desire. Your singularity will indiscriminately attack and attempt to destroy your primary target and damage any enemies within its reach, until its energy has dissipated.
- Uncontrollable Summon / Pet
- 15 second cooldown
- 17 second duration before despawning.
- AoE reverse repel mechanics
- Maintained damage to all enemies and objects within 20ft of Singularity.
Advantage: Quantum Fluctuation
- Your Singularity will now explode violently when it is close to despawning.
Thoughts?
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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and for that matter, it would probably also hit baby at dino too, but a little bit of damage every 90 seconds shouldn't be that big a deal as long as the tank's doing well
no idea about eidolon and his orbs, because i haven't done that fight yet so i don't know where things spawn
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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EDIT: Just realized this suggestion is almost 2 years old \o/
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Instead of keeping it as a form, or changing it to an active defense, why not try it out as a support passive that gives teammates a baby version of Invulnerability (flat mitigation + small amount of damage resistance) similar to how AoRP gives a baby Defiance (a larger amount of damage resistance) to everyone? It'd allow it to keep its theme as a team-wide flat damage mitigation passive effect without denying the user a form in order to do so.
Thinking about it, it would be nice to have a supportive passive in Force. I'd probably cut the damage resistance to self portion and have it apply a shield for self portion (keeping in line with the Force Field theme) but have flat mitigation and dmg resist for others and mitigation for self.
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
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I just hope the Development Team have enough time to allocate to sets like Force/Earth because they need fleshing out. Ideally as much time as what was spent on Infernal and Bestial SN is needed IMO.
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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