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FC.31.20151210a.37 - Mardi Gras Mask / Specialist Update

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  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    SUGGESTION: Burst Shot's animation is rather plain, and doesn't flow well with other power animations. Perhaps the animation from Bullet Beatdown's second attack would be more visually appealing; its three rapid-fire shots seem to better illustrate the concept of a "burst shot".

    I agree here, though my suggestion for animation would be Old-Gunslinger rather than that of the Second Strike of Bullet Beatdown. It does seem too bland to fit in with what is normally really flashy moves. If anything the current animation of Burst Shot is better left to a "Quickdraw" ability.

    Actually, it might be better to rename the power to Quickdraw, give it a bit more power and a slight cooldown and just make a new power with our suggested animations with different mechanics that would be better fitting for a low-tier ability. Burst Shot currently just seems... I dunno... odd for what it is?

    Hmm, to recap what I'm suggesting here:

    Burst Shot
    -Becomes Renamed to "Quick Draw."
    -Keeps its current animation.
    -Is bumped up to Tier 2.
    -Is granted a bit more power and a small cooldown to better qualify as a Tier 2 power.

    New Power
    -Gets named Burst Shot to fill in for the suggested Quick Draw.
    -Uses an "Old Gunslinger" or "Second Strike Bullet Beatdown" animation. (3-shot burstfire that comes from only a single pistol)
    -Introduces somewhat different mechanics from the current Burst Shot which would be adjusted to be Quick Draw. Hopefully to be more fitting as a T0 Power for Munitions/Dual Pistols.
    ​​
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,001 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I'd be fine giving TGM its heal properties and cylinder AoE- as a special adv. Maybe it could give both and thus also increase its cost to the current one to offset that. So, ya can make TGM less diverse but easier to use in non-Muni/geared builds w/ a power more like the old TGM, while allowing others to make TGM more versatile, but also more costly as a build center-piece.

    I still think this should come w/ reconsidering it being a T3 power. That blog post about bug fixing went on about promoting build diversity. Well, the net changes to TGM (namely the tier move and energy cost hike) make it less tenable to a wider variety of builds, imo. I'm all for lowering TGM's dps as a sole power (mainly to combat min-maxing), but not like this.
    Post edited by flowcyto on
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    See, here's what I've seen from this thread, "Yeah well I still can maintain it!...If I deck out another stat I didn't choose :p". Yeah. I'm not going to deck out REC and INT on an EGO/DEX/INT build, decking out INT should be sufficient enough(if it weren't nerfed, but CD's were, then I'm sure it would be viable in this scenario).

    EDIT: and another thing, seems like this is one of those, "because people use it, and the other options for it's tier sucked, let's move it, change it(remove armor pen(ok sure), and lower it's damage), and then make you into a very short-ranged cone".
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User

    With Bombshell, I can stand there and spam the heck out of Gatling Gun, mowing down an infinite number of targets up to 100ft away, triggering endless crits and Quarry/FairGame self-heals and never even get below half energy on my third or fourth maintain.... It do not make sense.

    This edited version is more or less my response.
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  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User
    [19:40] [Combat (Self)] Your Two-gun Mojo deals 2440 (2135) Piercing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B

    Int Ego/Con with Quarry. Guardicator specs. Honestly I really don't see the issue beyond 'muh ez build!'s being less easy, and the energy cost. That needs to be reduced a lot more than it is. Unless they're shifting to try and make energy builders more required, in which case... that's gunna be a major shift in gameplay that'll effect a lot more people than just those that build to not use 'em.
  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User
    I finished resetting my build on Test and tested out. All I can say is that I would not want to try to do the tutorial with Holdout Shot. I'll keep 2GM on my toons where it fits thematically but the high energy cost is too aggravating as it is for me to enjoy using it.
  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    I finished resetting my build on Test and tested out. All I can say is that I would not want to try to do the tutorial with Holdout Shot. I'll keep 2GM on my toons where it fits thematically but the high energy cost is too aggravating as it is for me to enjoy using it.

    So... uh... use Burst Shot?
  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User
    Sure. But if I'm a new player and don't know anything about the powers I'd have a less than favorable view of the game trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot.
  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    Sure. But if I'm a new player and don't know anything about the powers I'd have a less than favorable view of the game trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot.

    In what way will the game force someone to take Holdout Shot? Is it the second power choice on the PTS create a character screen? Because if so I seriously doubt that will remain an option. Burst Shot will undoubtedly be replacing 2gmj in that lineup.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    I finished resetting my build on Test and tested out. All I can say is that I would not want to try to do the tutorial with Holdout Shot. I'll keep 2GM on my toons where it fits thematically but the high energy cost is too aggravating as it is for me to enjoy using it.

    So... uh... use Burst Shot?
    Or, they want to keep 2GM, but thanks to the high cost, it's not possible. By chance, have you used the new 2GM since PTS? Just curious.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    I finished resetting my build on Test and tested out. All I can say is that I would not want to try to do the tutorial with Holdout Shot. I'll keep 2GM on my toons where it fits thematically but the high energy cost is too aggravating as it is for me to enjoy using it.

    So... uh... use Burst Shot?
    Or, they want to keep 2GM, but thanks to the high cost, it's not possible. By chance, have you used the new 2GM since PTS? Just curious.

    [19:40] [Combat (Self)] Your Two-gun Mojo deals 2440 (2135) Piercing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B

    Int Ego/Con with Quarry. Guardicator specs. Honestly I really don't see the issue beyond 'muh ez build!'s being less easy, and the energy cost. That needs to be reduced a lot more than it is. Unless they're shifting to try and make energy builders more required, in which case... that's gunna be a major shift in gameplay that'll effect a lot more people than just those that build to not use 'em.

  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User

    Sure. But if I'm a new player and don't know anything about the powers I'd have a less than favorable view of the game trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot.

    In what way will the game force someone to take Holdout Shot? Is it the second power choice on the PTS create a character screen? Because if so I seriously doubt that will remain an option. Burst Shot will undoubtedly be replacing 2gmj in that lineup.

    If you're doing a themed pistol character you're going to have two choices for your non energy builder power. One of them is Burst Shot. The other is Holdout Shot. As a new player who has never touched the game how I am going to know that Burst Shot is so much better than Holdout Shot?



  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    Sure. But if I'm a new player and don't know anything about the powers I'd have a less than favorable view of the game trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot.

    In what way will the game force someone to take Holdout Shot? Is it the second power choice on the PTS create a character screen? Because if so I seriously doubt that will remain an option. Burst Shot will undoubtedly be replacing 2gmj in that lineup.

    If you're doing a themed pistol character you're going to have two choices for your non energy builder power. One of them is Burst Shot. The other is Holdout Shot. As a new player who has never touched the game how I am going to know that Burst Shot is so much better than Holdout Shot?



    This seems like a question you need to answer, because anyone with a mouse can figure that one out.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User

    Sure. But if I'm a new player and don't know anything about the powers I'd have a less than favorable view of the game trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot.

    In what way will the game force someone to take Holdout Shot? Is it the second power choice on the PTS create a character screen? Because if so I seriously doubt that will remain an option. Burst Shot will undoubtedly be replacing 2gmj in that lineup.

    If you're doing a themed pistol character you're going to have two choices for your non energy builder power. One of them is Burst Shot. The other is Holdout Shot. As a new player who has never touched the game how I am going to know that Burst Shot is so much better than Holdout Shot?



    I'm guessing they'll find out as soon as they find out holdout shot has a 10 sec cooldown and a lame animation. Burst shot isn't much better though, the animation is boring, and the attack itself is unispiring, and with a name like Burst shot I would expect it to actually be a burst.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    Is Holdout Shot even on the character creation screens for power selection? I thought that was a power you'd only see after you are done with the tutorial and into the powerhouse.​​
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    kallethen said:

    Is Holdout Shot even on the character creation screens for power selection? I thought that was a power you'd only see after you are done with the tutorial and into the powerhouse.​​

    Yep. as in the tutorial your level 2, and that doesn't open till 6.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited February 2016


    I finished resetting my build on Test and tested out. All I can say is that I would not want to try to do the tutorial with Holdout Shot. I'll keep 2GM on my toons where it fits thematically but the high energy cost is too aggravating as it is for me to enjoy using it.

    So... uh... use Burst Shot?
    Or, they want to keep 2GM, but thanks to the high cost, it's not possible. By chance, have you used the new 2GM since PTS? Just curious.

    [19:40] [Combat (Self)] Your Two-gun Mojo deals 2440 (2135) Piercing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B

    Int Ego/Con with Quarry. Guardicator specs. Honestly I really don't see the issue beyond 'muh ez build!'s being less easy, and the energy cost. That needs to be reduced a lot more than it is. Unless they're shifting to try and make energy builders more required, in which case... that's gunna be a major shift in gameplay that'll effect a lot more people than just those that build to not use 'em.

    "muh ez builds". Themes a thing y'know? I don't exactly think wanting to keep a power critical to a gunslinger build at it's current tier to maybe have a single-target filler is "muh ez build" try again. :)

    But wait! I'll save ya the time!, "Just use burst shot" Oooh, tough one to argue again-"waitaminute, why the hell should I be forced to wait 'till 17 for a power whose not even as powerful as it was before to add to my gunslinger?" That's a good question theme builder! And, I don't know, it's like getting a toy, then having it smashed, re-rapped, and you have to wait till Christmas to get it again..of next year! :).

    "So you think this toy should stay the way it is as an "over-preforming" power, your just whining cause change"-http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1204339/play-as-a-villain. Scroll to the bottom, you'll see my post on this straw-man idea. :)

    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,066 Arc User
    holdout shot is a T1; only T0 shows up on character creation.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    "I mean, it's even called an Energy Builder power, why are you shocked and disappointed when you have to use it to build energy?"

    Because there are players with a goal to not rely on the energy builder once they hit 40. EBs do **** damage. Relying on an EB lowers DPS. It's the same as a min/maxer snearing at casual players that just want to make some fun builds. Plus, it doesn't seem very super heroic to sit around waving a feather at your enemies before launching an attack that actually does damage. I mean, isn't that why a lot of folks are here? To live out their super hero fantasies?
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    sterga said:

    "I mean, it's even called an Energy Builder power, why are you shocked and disappointed when you have to use it to build energy?"

    Because there are players with a goal to not rely on the energy builder once they hit 40. EBs do **** damage. Relying on an EB lowers DPS. It's the same as a min/maxer snearing at casual players that just want to make some fun builds. Plus, it doesn't seem very super heroic to sit around waving a feather at your enemies before launching an attack that actually does damage. I mean, isn't that why a lot of folks are here? To live out their super hero fantasies?

    Tell 'em sterg!! >:)
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User
    Just went to make a character on the PTS. Not only does Burst Shot replace 2gmj as a second power choice, but it does an adequate job of getting you through the tutorial. Just like every other power. While I agree that Burst Shot needs some love in the form of animation, it's a utility power. Just like Ice Blast is now; Decent damage but the real use is Utility.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    Yep. as in the tutorial your level 2, and that doesn't open till 6.

    Right. So I don't know how you are complaining about people trying to do the Tutorial with Holdout Shot. You can't even select Holdout Shot until you are done with the tutorial and into the powerhouse because it's not a T0 power. I just tried making a new character. No Holdout Shot.​​
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    "muh ez builds". Themes a thing y'know? I don't exactly think wanting to keep a power critical to a gunslinger build at it's current tier to maybe have a single-target filler is "muh ez build" try again. :)

    But wait! I'll save ya the time!, "Just use burst shot" Oooh, tough one to argue again-"waitaminute, why the hell should I be forced to wait 'till 17 for a power whose not even as powerful as it was before to add to my gunslinger?" That's a good question theme builder! And, I don't know, it's like getting a toy, then having it smashed, re-rapped, and you have to wait till Christmas to get it again..of next year! :).

    "So you think this toy should stay the way it is as an "over-preforming" power, your just whining cause change"-http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1204339/play-as-a-villain. Scroll to the bottom, you'll see my post on this straw-man idea. :)

    So what about all the other Frameworks that are like that, then. I don't see many people up in arms that Haymaker is a t3 power. Same with Massacre, Defile, Gigabolt, etc etc. I get that Burst Shot feels weak, but while the whole 'Superheroes should feel SUPER!' notion I agree with, you're also supposed to be a Superhero that's gaining powers. Hence why the Powerhouse exists, to help TRAIN in the use of such things. If you want an instant powerful hero, PWI gave you such a thing in the form of a 2000 zen purchase.

    Burst Shot, as it stands, appears to be geared towards what they did to Ice Blast. Less of a mainstay damage power and more of a Utility power to be used later on. I haven't tried leveling with it on the PTS just yet, but in the tutorial it killed mobs a little slower than most others, but it was hardly grueling. That's what the Public Test Server is for though, to test it out and see if it needs a damage increase and what not. Same with 2gmj. These changes are likely not final, and I'm sure they're going to be tweeked. If not, I'll join the side of people who are against the change.

    Right now though, I'll just keep enjoying my PBR build while everyone else retcons.
  • areyoukiddinmeareyoukiddinme Posts: 13 Arc User
    2GM users had it coming for months. It's been ridiculously OP. Finally, some justice.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest an additional reason for changing 2GM, that is not about power balance:

    Build Diversity


    Simply put, when you can be guaranteed that every PUG has one or two 2GM users, it might become weird or outright annoying in a superhero game.
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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    My only complaint with burst shot is that the animation is lackluster as is the theme of it. It doesn't do much damage, so you just pop it off really quick, but... that doesn't really fit the name "Burst Shot" especially when you probably were just doing lead tempest or 2GM. Even giving it a name change or adding a little effect to the power would improve it.

    See, here's what I've seen from this thread, "Yeah well I still can maintain it!...If I deck out another stat I didn't choose :p". Yeah. I'm not going to deck out REC and INT on an EGO/DEX/INT build, decking out INT should be sufficient enough(if it weren't nerfed, but CD's were, then I'm sure it would be viable in this scenario).

    EDIT: and another thing, seems like this is one of those, "because people use it, and the other options for it's tier sucked, let's move it, change it(remove armor pen(ok sure), and lower it's damage), and then make you into a very short-ranged cone".

    You don't have to go with rec and int, you probably would be better off going ego/dex(if you want it)/end. With 2GM, larger max energy is better than more cost discount.

    BTW, if anyone wants me to try out their build with 2GM who cannot get on to the PTS, I'll give it a go. I only have so much free time though... but I will do my best.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    "muh ez builds". Themes a thing y'know? I don't exactly think wanting to keep a power critical to a gunslinger build at it's current tier to maybe have a single-target filler is "muh ez build" try again. :)

    But wait! I'll save ya the time!, "Just use burst shot" Oooh, tough one to argue again-"waitaminute, why the hell should I be forced to wait 'till 17 for a power whose not even as powerful as it was before to add to my gunslinger?" That's a good question theme builder! And, I don't know, it's like getting a toy, then having it smashed, re-rapped, and you have to wait till Christmas to get it again..of next year! :).

    "So you think this toy should stay the way it is as an "over-preforming" power, your just whining cause change"-http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1204339/play-as-a-villain. Scroll to the bottom, you'll see my post on this straw-man idea. :)

    So what about all the other Frameworks that are like that, then. I don't see many people up in arms that Haymaker is a t3 power. Same with Massacre, Defile, Gigabolt, etc etc. I get that Burst Shot feels weak, but while the whole 'Superheroes should feel SUPER!' notion I agree with, you're also supposed to be a Superhero that's gaining powers. Hence why the Powerhouse exists, to help TRAIN in the use of such things. If you want an instant powerful hero, PWI gave you such a thing in the form of a 2000 zen purchase.

    Burst Shot, as it stands, appears to be geared towards what they did to Ice Blast. Less of a mainstay damage power and more of a Utility power to be used later on. I haven't tried leveling with it on the PTS just yet, but in the tutorial it killed mobs a little slower than most others, but it was hardly grueling. That's what the Public Test Server is for though, to test it out and see if it needs a damage increase and what not. Same with 2gmj. These changes are likely not final, and I'm sure they're going to be tweeked. If not, I'll join the side of people who are against the change.

    Right now though, I'll just keep enjoying my PBR build while everyone else retcons.
    Because Heymaker and the other T3 are set up that way. 2GM was set up as a tier 2, not its fault all the other T2 were shitty, just the way it is, even back on live I pioneered for the other T2's to be brought up because I used them on a myraid of my 40s, and felt they needed love.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest an additional reason for changing 2GM, that is not about power balance:

    Build Diversity


    Simply put, when you can be guaranteed that every PUG has one or two 2GM users, it might become weird or outright annoying in a superhero game.

    Build diversity could be achieved with out breaking existing builds. As others have already suggested, lowering 2gms damage and removing the concentration effect would have gone a long ways to balancing the power.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    draogn wrote: »
    Build diversity could be achieved with out breaking existing builds. As others have already suggested, lowering 2gms damage and removing the concentration effect would have gone a long ways to balancing the power.

    It needs to lose Crippling Challenge and Nailed to the Ground to before I would even remotely consider it balanced. And all in one power, that has resistance penetration and can pretty much remove block and travel powers.​​
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  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    Because Heymaker and the other T3 are set up that way. 2GM was set up as a tier 2, not its fault all the other T2 were shitty, just the way it is, even back on live I pioneered for the other T2's to be brought up because I used them on a myraid of my 40s, and felt they needed love.

    That's the problem. Most of Dual Pistol's abilities are lackluster, or serve as Utility instead of damage. 2GMJ and Lead Tempest were the only powerful ones, except one was t1 the other was t3. Now with the addition of Burst Shot, there's a little more variation. 2GMJ is kept powerful and is bumped up to t3, while t1 gets Burst Shot.

    After leveling with Burst some from 1-10, I can safely say that soloing with it is 100% possible, if a little boring due to the stagnant nature of tapping over and over. If anything, Dual Pistols needs some more love or at least an additional mechanic/animation for Burst Shot.
    draogn said:

    Build diversity could be achieved with out breaking existing builds. As others have already suggested, lowering 2gms damage and removing the concentration effect would have gone a long ways to balancing the power.

    This is beyond balancing. This is a total Rework.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User



    draogn wrote: »

    Build diversity could be achieved with out breaking existing builds. As others have already suggested, lowering 2gms damage and removing the concentration effect would have gone a long ways to balancing the power.


    It needs to lose Crippling Challenge and Nailed to the Ground to before I would even remotely consider it balanced. And all in one power, that has resistance penetration and can pretty much remove block and travel powers.​​

    I'd rather it not lose CC, some like to use the power on their ranged tank, and nailed to the ground is helpful for keeping flying mobs in range of the melee.
  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User

    falchoin said:

    I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but the heal tied to the Furious buff does not appear to scale with any stats. It's always 96 hp per tick.

    Eeeh...I get 111 per tick with Furious' Willpower boost.
    Is that in support role?
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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    falchoin said:

    falchoin said:

    I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but the heal tied to the Furious buff does not appear to scale with any stats. It's always 96 hp per tick.

    Eeeh...I get 111 per tick with Furious' Willpower boost.
    Is that in support role?
    I got the same in ranged
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Can there be a choice at level 14 between Concentration and Form of the Tempest?

    Only reason I would see as to why you only get to go Form of the Tempest is because even if the player picks all Ranged powers, you would still crit and produce Form of the Tempest focus stacks. You could go all melee and take Concentration early on and then never be able to get con stacks. I may have answered my own question, but it is something to consider as concentration would be nice for those who want to go all ranged.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,257 Arc User

    [19:40] [Combat (Self)] Your Two-gun Mojo deals 2440 (2135) Piercing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B

    Int Ego/Con with Quarry. Guardicator specs. Honestly I really don't see the issue beyond 'muh ez build!'s being less easy, and the energy cost.

    As has been mentioned before, the changes don't make that much difference to geared up lvl 40 characters, when you've whittled the enemy down to a single target. But it makes the munitions tree a right mess in ways that don't make sense when you're levelling up a character, which make the power stick right out as "nerfed!" when compared to other powers inside the set, and introduces dependencies which only make sense if the powers are taken in the order of the reworked Specialist AT - and to be honest, no-one was using that as their template.

    Oh, and as usual, it's one Retcon per account. You are really spoiling us, ambassador!

    I'll try and comment on the changes to Bullet Beatdown - lot going on with that one, though.

  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User

    [19:40] [Combat (Self)] Your Two-gun Mojo deals 2440 (2135) Piercing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B

    Int Ego/Con with Quarry. Guardicator specs. Honestly I really don't see the issue beyond 'muh ez build!'s being less easy, and the energy cost.

    As has been mentioned before, the changes don't make that much difference to geared up lvl 40 characters, when you've whittled the enemy down to a single target. But it makes the munitions tree a right mess in ways that don't make sense when you're levelling up a character, which make the power stick right out as "nerfed!" when compared to other powers inside the set, and introduces dependencies which only make sense if the powers are taken in the order of the reworked Specialist AT - and to be honest, no-one was using that as their template.

    Oh, and as usual, it's one Retcon per account. You are really spoiling us, ambassador!

    I'll try and comment on the changes to Bullet Beatdown - lot going on with that one, though.

    I used the Debugger to skip to 20 and took 2GMJ. Not exactly difficult to get out of taking Burst Shot. Honestly, the only problem I feel is the energy cost. It's way too much to consistently maintain. At the very least the inherent cone helps it absolutely murder everything. If anything, the energy costs is what makes it feel 'nerfed'.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,439 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Two things:

    Burst Shot has some power activation issues. Sometimes I can spam it and other times it won't let me activate it, so it can be very random how it works. Please fix the delay after activation so it can be used again swiftly. Otherwise I like a power that can apply such damage debuffs.

    Burst Shot's Armor Piercing effect says it reduces resistance against Slashing and Physical damage instead of Piercing and Crushing like it is supposed to.

    Burst Shot's "Off Your Feet" adv after the Knock Resist stacks goes away prevents any knew knock resist stacks from reapplying to target ever again. This isn't reliable but can happen.

    Burst Shot's Animation can effectively bug your TP animation. The same way that Shred and claw powers do.


    *Two-Gun Mojo is actually better now because of this change. Though making it a Tier 3 power is a bit over the top since its effectively working like Blade Tempest. Having it this high makes it harder to chose powers that aren't crap and is forcing some players to go the Sonic Blaster > MSA route in all their TGM builds. The only thing I suggest otherwise is to please reduce the Initial Energy and Per Cost by 4 points each.

    *EDIT
    Seems you lowered the base damage by half along with increased initial energy by over two times? This is too extreme. You can't have both.​​
    Post edited by crypticbuxom on
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,439 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    - Two Gun Mojo is now a 2ft cylinder area effect attack with a target cap of 3. Its damage is reduced based on the number of targets you hit.

    You accidentally lowered the initial damage AND made it lower damage again based on number of targets hit. Make its damage what is was and THEN reduce damage based on target hit. Either that or make the energy cost what it was before.​​
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited February 2016
    Can't see anything wrong witch changes to this AT. It always was an AT that could be set to blades OR guns, but always was lacking any form of energy unlock. Now it has an energy unlock plus Furious can up your criticals which will synergise well with Stimpack adv on Holdout Shot as it was healing best when it could crit.

    Previously this AT basically required you to go in punching range to stack your critical chance with blades to ensure that you can heal effectively with a ranged ability. Which was not very thematic for pure "bullet hell" concepts.
    And this was the only real synergy this AT had in its build. The rest was sort of cherry-picked powers pieced together because of the concept.​​
  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest an additional reason for changing 2GM, that is not about power balance:

    Build Diversity


    Simply put, when you can be guaranteed that every PUG has one or two 2GM users, it might become weird or outright annoying in a superhero game.

    If they want build diversity they need to buff up other powers... and roles.

    The min-maxers will simply find whatever power performs the closest to old 2GM and swap to that.

    As long as DPS is king, people will gravitate towards whatever gives them the most DPS with the least amount of effort. Sure, you have your RPers, the people who like to tank and heal, but the popularity of 2GM demonstrates that people in this game want to mostly mow down the bad guys quickly. If you want to change that, give incentives to play other roles than DPS ... increase XP for teams, create new content that isn't just challenging but also FUN for the casual player ... make people WANT to play support, tanks, melee damage, crowd control.

    But if the plan is simply to reduce the DPS of whatever particular power is deemed to become too popular by some unknown Dev measure, then they'll simply be engaged in a war of attrition that will eventually make the game less fun for everyone.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,195 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    make people WANT to play support, tanks, melee damage, crowd control.

    Mmm, Make em, that won't bode well, from my observations, what makes playing these roles unrewarding for the most part, Support, most of the game isn't hard enough to warrant a WANT to play and playing support is just that, Supporting, most builds tend to support themselves, Tanks, same as above, most likely due to gravitating away from damage, Melee, well make it more rewarding if the extra work applied results in more rewarding style, melee generally SHOULD deal more damage then Ranged but in CO, it's pretty much give up 50ft plus to chase after and stab them in the face for a bit extra damage compared to running around in circles pewpew everything, and Crowd Control . . . Fix it so Hold HP is reintroduced and scales accordingly, so playing it in team content doesn't destroy it, at-least not immediately if you specialize for it and affect bosses to a degree.

    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • kunkanekokunkaneko Posts: 17 Arc User
    kunkaneko said:

    List of Bugs:
    - Munitions Framework: Burst Shot - Rank 3 only costs 1 adv point, prob should cost 2
    - Bestial Framework: Shred (2nd animation) and Frenzy (all 3 animations) are bugged when using Flight travel Power, the toon's legs appear as if they're stepping on the ground, even if flying on the air.

    Suggestions:
    - Martial Arts Framework: Thunderbolt Lunge only makes sense for an Unarmed build. There should be a Lunge power in the martial arts framework for each of the sets, a claw lunge, a 1-sword lunge and a 2-sword lunge. You even have these animations available in other sets (laser sword in Power Armor, single and dual psychic blades in Telekinesis and the lunge from Bestial Supernatural), so it should be simple to adapt them.
    - Munitions Framework: Energy Builder - If you're fixing this set, you might as well add a rifle-themed energy builder, so we can make a full rifle build without using 2Guns or 1Gun for an energy builder. Just copy-paste one of the other energy builders and add a simple rifle animation to it.
    - Munitions Framework: Weapon Skins - Most of the rifle skins from the Ranged Weapons Costume Pack don't apply to Submachine Gun and Sniper Rifle, it's a real shame since some of those skins look pretty good.
    - Munitions Framework: Two-Gun-Mojo - I don't like that all thematic 2Guns powers are now AoE, since some missions require precise Single Target objectives (like the lvl 40 UNITY mission where you have to hit the magic orb without hitting the civilians surrounding it). Balance is important, but Freeform thematic builds should still be viable.
    - Munitions Framework: Two-Gun-Mojo - Energy cost became prohibitive now. I'd much rather lose damage for an energy cost similar to the other maintain rifle powers (like assault rifle or plasma beam rifle). Or just lose the AoE function of the power as I suggested earlier. Please don't let this go live as it is, it'd force me to drop my Regeneration passive for Defiance, and I don't want to do that...

    - As a general rule, please don't make abusive use of energy cost increases for balance purposes, it'll just break builds rather than "balance" them - like it happened with Vehicles' Plasma Beam, whose energy cost increase was so absurd you couldn't even release a full maintain without running out of energy. If you think a power's unbalanced, reduce its damage to acceptable levels. There are always ways around prohibitive energy costs, but it breaks thematic builds. Say I want to create a viable 2Gun/Regen toon, now I can't without severely gimping myself and my team contribuition.

    Sorry to be posting again, but I thought about two other suggestions:

    - Munitions Framework: Two-Gun-Mojo - I was thinking this change doesn't have to be a "this or that" solution; you could add another Tier 1 power to the set to appease casual players just want a simple cheap, lower damage, single target 2Gun maintain power. Min/Maxers would still have their Tier 3, more expensive AoE and with all the extra utility, and everybody would be happy.
    - Martial Arts Framework: Weapon Skins - Would you consider the possibility of adding the Claws Weapon Skins to the Swords Weapon Skins menu? It might not work perfectly for all powers, visually, but I'm thinking along the lines of the invisible Imaginary Weapons skin. I'd love to have my claws out while using the Sword Cyclone power, for example.

    Anyway, thanks for the hard work, dev team. I may not like all the changes, but some of the stuff is very interesting.

  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,719 Arc User
    So true, but see how well they do if they show up to F&I with no tanks or healers in the mix. I actually enjoy playing healers and tanks. Just standing and spamming one attack is fine now and then, but so boring if that's all all my characters did.
    As long as DPS is king, people will gravitate towards whatever gives them the most DPS with the least amount of effort. Sure, you have your RPers, the people who like to tank and heal, but the popularity of 2GM demonstrates that people in this game want to mostly mow down the bad guys quickly. If you want to change that, give incentives to play other roles than DPS ... increase XP for teams, create new content that isn't just challenging but also FUN for the casual player ... make people WANT to play support, tanks, melee damage, crowd control.
    ​​
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  • unsungchampionunsungchampion Posts: 13 Arc User
    Alright, as someone who has a main-munition champions since 2010, I feel as if I should weigh in on this whole 2GM debate.

    2GM-Cons
    ~It's a cylinder power, meaning you can hit more things without having to toggle through single target. Great, love this change however I do not like that you loose power the more enemies you hit. Don't give it a damage cap, have it hit like 2-3 enemies with the same base damage. Or make the AOE part an advantage like this:

    2 Spray and Pray- You don't really aim and just let loose a hail of bullets toward you enemies, This power adds an AOE cylinder of 10ft around your main target max 4 targets, all targets have a 10-15% chance to apply the Furious stack. This advantage also lowers the base damage by 10%

    Something like that would be really cool and thematic for some people, have a character that just like shooting things BOOM, or do you have one that is more a marksmen and likes to aim?

    Burst Shot- Either needs a new name or new animation, if you want to keep the animation, how about calling it Quick Draw? That's what it looks like more to me
  • renegade0renegade0 Posts: 80 Arc User
    The devs and all the dual pistol haters should realize that the dual pistal theme is popular because it's dual pistols. Not because 2GM was over powered. You ask a group of 100 people what's cooler, wielding two handguns or shooting sparkles from your hands, most are to say wielding two handguns, the rest were just joking.

    I'm assuming the stacks of furious + concentration form will make it less crappy than what people are saying, but making it a cone...I don't know.

    When the update goes live, I plan on completely changing my character to a different theme regardless. So I'm glad they're at least giving players a respec in exchange for breaking their powers.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,066 Arc User

    make people WANT to play support, tanks, melee damage, crowd control.

    Most of those things require making NPCs more powerful -- support, tank, and crowd control are basically defensive roles, and the vast majority of stuff in this game can be stomped by squishies.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest an additional reason for changing 2GM, that is not about power balance:

    Build Diversity


    Simply put, when you can be guaranteed that every PUG has one or two 2GM users, it might become weird or outright annoying in a superhero game.

    If they want build diversity they need to buff up other powers... and roles.

    The min-maxers will simply find whatever power performs the closest to old 2GM and swap to that.

    As long as DPS is king, people will gravitate towards whatever gives them the most DPS with the least amount of effort. Sure, you have your RPers, the people who like to tank and heal, but the popularity of 2GM demonstrates that people in this game want to mostly mow down the bad guys quickly. If you want to change that, give incentives to play other roles than DPS ... increase XP for teams, create new content that isn't just challenging but also FUN for the casual player ... make people WANT to play support, tanks, melee damage, crowd control.

    But if the plan is simply to reduce the DPS of whatever particular power is deemed to become too popular by some unknown Dev measure, then they'll simply be engaged in a war of attrition that will eventually make the game less fun for everyone.
    I am getting Sick and Tired! Of people using that damn word that they have no idea about. This. Does. NOT. Promote. Build Diversity!!. Seriously, stop, you don't know what that means(and that's ok, just don't use it) and therefore use it as a Strawman to justify destruction, seriously, learn. Diverse means different, in a multitude of ways, not destructive and counter-intuitive. Or else hey!, let's remove(or go in an drastically change their tiers and base power functions) the Force, Telepathy, gadgeteering and all those weak sets because, build diversity! :). Or, not feeling powers? Okay! let's go basic, and I mean really basic, and remove END/REC completely >:), their terrible and would help diversity :p Why stop there?, CON makes a lot of people angry, remove it too! Whining Build diversity! :lol:

    Obv. I don't want this, but I see this waaay too much when a nerf or something drastic hits, and think to myself, "If only they knew what the word diverse means :'(" and it annoys me :/.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User


    Obv. I don't want this, but I see this waaay too much when a nerf or something drastic hits, and think to myself, "If only they knew what the word diverse means :'(" and it annoys me :/.

    That's your problem right there. The changes to TGM aren't even an actual nerf. It's nothing more than a power shift. People will still use it, but it will be less popular. Therefore, we will be seeing less of TGM which is arguably the most popular attack in the game, and more of different attacks. That right there is build diversity, or at least a step in the right direction.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
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