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FC.31.20151210a.37 - Mardi Gras Mask / Specialist Update

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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Hello!

    This is my Suggestion - please take time to read it!

    Two Gun Mojo has 3 things that make it popular: 1. Mobility 2. Huge damage output 3. You can fire it kinda non stop

    And you can still have all of these things with these changes! But because of the cost increase, it is only possible with the proper gear - this can expen$ive for some players :C It could also really pigeon hole them just because they want to use a cool and fun power. Studdering powers that quickly give you a "Not enough Energy" message is not fun :T

    I think a good balance would be if rank 1 of 2GM cost less energy than rank 2, and rank 2 cost less than rank 3. If players want to still spam that power around, they can by not ranking up the power to rank 2 or rank 3. Lower damage, but more bullets :3
    This will also let players who are at lower levels still use the power to its fullest effect without having to invest heavily into gear. At level 30, you probably won't be able to use 2GM without quickly running out of energy. With a tiered power cost according to power rank, everyone can go guns blazing!
  • lunnylunnylunnylunny Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Hm. Well, as I mentioned earlier, I am very satisfied with the changes, but considering the energy issues people seem to be having for Two Gun Mojo, perhaps the AoE damage portion could be nerfed, so that you can lower the energy cost significantly.
    Or just lower it a bit I guess that could work too.

    I have no complaints for it being a tier 3 power. Tier 1 is usually focused on utility, as much as some specific ones out there are a bit too strong, it makes sense that a power which would be your main source of DPS couldn't just be in tier 1. As for the damage nerf, you just pick the new power and it's solved, the damage gets back to the exact same. Better yet, you're helping everyonelse who does Piercing or Crushing damage too.
    Post edited by carrionbaggage on
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    I don't know how many people took 2GM out of the powerhouse, but in case you were thinking the 2ft cylinder is a bad thing let me tell you why it isn't and is actually awesome:

    Killer instinct returns on critical hits. With 2GM in the past, you were getting criticals at the rate of your Critical Chance plus your specs and other buffs. With the 2ft cylinder, you are hitting many more enemies and so you get that same rate as before multiplied by the number of enemies you hit (up to a max of 3 of course). This means you are going to be getting much more energy from Killer Instinct than in the past with 2GM.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Still concerned for the energy cost of TGM, there is no way this can be the Final Result
    xrazamax wrote: »
    I don't know how many people took 2GM out of the powerhouse, but in case you were thinking the 2ft cylinder is a bad thing let me tell you why it isn't and is actually awesome:

    Killer instinct returns on critical hits. With 2GM in the past, you were getting criticals at the rate of your Critical Chance plus your specs and other buffs. With the 2ft cylinder, you are hitting many more enemies and so you get that same rate as before multiplied by the number of enemies you hit (up to a max of 3 of course). This means you are going to be getting much more energy from Killer Instinct than in the past with 2GM.


    Too bad, Im using OVERDRIVE and not Killer instinct​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    My character is Dex-Ego/Int with some stuff pumped into Recovery. It's a pretty big change. Not only is damage lowered but you can't maintain nearly as long. On live I can maintain a bunch of times before needing any more energy.

    I think the cost should be lowered.

    Here's a video of me spamming the bajeezus out of it on PTS. Very basic munitions dual pistol build. I don't know how long you were maintaining it, but I think there's a good amount of maintaining going on in here. Note that my damage sucks because I'm bad at building - that girl Lyn in the video standing next to me does like twice as much damage as I do and can also spam the bajeezus out of it just like I can. Maybe she'll post a video too. No energy builder used, and I even left my travel power on for the energy penalty ( since most times you'll have it on ).



    The cost doesn't appear to be an issue, and Lyn was still cranking out over 5k dps with it.

    objective feedback.

  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    Im actually Dissapointed that Breakaway Shot was left out from this Dual Pistols adjustement >_> This power needs some more Love!


    Also, will there will be any change with TGM's Closing the Gap ADV?​​
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  • bazodeebazodee Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Re: Two-Gun-Mojo

    Yep, my dex-con build had energy issues. Had to re-arrange some gear/mods and still could only manage one maintain, before energy builder needed to be kicked in.

    Toon is built along a theme, without overzealous min/maxing, synergistic power matching taking place. Just average player build with Justice - and man that's a heavy bite into my Q moving those mods around.

    1) Let's do something about that power cost
    2) Munitions framework feels kinda empty without an early single target heavy hitter.

    I don't like Sigs, but I'll leave this here anyway. At least I'm not to trying to hypnotise you with moving things!
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    I thought Killer Instinct could only give energy once every 3 or 4 seconds? Pretty sure all forms and energy unlocks have a similar restriction.

    One of my friends made a good point: Burst shot seems it would be better adding the debuff and advantage to shotgun. I don't get the reason why things are being made unnecessarily complicated.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    Alright now that I've tested and made a strictly more focused DPS build here are my thoughts.

    Shredded change to last hit, it's fine less random but just a tad more annoying to get it off. I can live with it with having shred being AE now.

    Frenzy, nice improvements, that much is honest, but the new fear sense here is my opinion on the matter. Doing the fastest attacks I could, without any refreshing or longer duration there was absolutely no point in my test I could get more than 3 stacks before one would fall off before I could utilize it in a heavy hitter. In theory it sounds great, but in practice it's less than stellar if I were to be honest. Almost worthless on a pure DPS build because you will be tanking your actual DPS value. If I ignored using frenzy for the furious stacks and just stuck to swapping between shred and massacre, in a melee built brawler build with night warrior I could get around an 5200 DPS average (with unleashed rage and AOs of course), but the moment I started trying to get furious built up to boost my critical chance, my DPS just tanked.

    It's just not ideal at all as it is, and is less than useful for bestial builds outside of novelty.​​
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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    sterga said:

    I thought Killer Instinct could only give energy once every 3 or 4 seconds? Pretty sure all forms and energy unlocks have a similar restriction.

    You are right sterga, but if your crits land during that "cannot proc" time, and you don't crit soon after that period, you can go without the EU return for a long enough period (a few seconds) that you may run empty. If you have at least ~25% crit chance, you should be okay for a while even if the EU lapses, but you will run into those "Not enough energy" situations every few maintains. With multiple targets, you should minimizes any lapses between getting Killer instinct proc'd
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Posts: 520 Arc User
    The new 2GM only works if you stack enough Ego to get Concentration and Killer Instinct at acceptable levels of energy return.

    I'm guessing it's right around the 450-470 mark for Ego.

  • andondarkmoreandondarkmore Posts: 609 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    So if I want to make a 2 Pistol themed character I need to wait till level 11 or 14 for a single target attack. Progress is Gunslinger / Concentration / Burst **** / Killer Instinct / BULLET BEAT DOWN (Without ADV) / HOLDOUT SHOT / Two Gun Mojo.

    Other thoughts.
    Burst shot costs 3 Adv points to get rank 3. Is this so you can get rank 3 and one of the advantages? will this type of progress happen in the future or will existing powers get this change?

    Burst shot a bit slow with animation having you lower guns with each shot
  • xacchaeusxacchaeus Posts: 308 Arc User
    xacchaeus said:

    compared 2GM with AR
    Assault rifle damage is close

    first test: I averaged 1245 per shot with AR, 1074 with 2GM,
    second test: I averaged 1191.8 per shot with AR, 1213.8 with 2GM
    third test Tap damage is near identical 1444 for AR, 1477 for 2GM (2GM does better if set up with Burst Shot)
    fourth test Tap Damage (set up with Burst Shot) 1633 for AR, 1750 for 2GM

    that little difference in damage does not warrant a difference of 10.4 END every .5 seconds, especially considering the tier (1 vs 3) AND range (100ft vs 50ft) difference

    because of this change, Ill probably just switch to assault rifle, safer distance for a glass canon and no END issues

    Also the initial animation on Burst Shot is okay, but do the pistols need to be unholstered for each shot?

    a bit more testing, added Pulse Beam Rifle, TK Assault & Lightning Arc into the mix

    PBR did 1374.25 every .5 seconds at 100ft
    TKA did 1647.7 every .5 seconds at 100ft
    LArc did 2231 every .5 seconds at 100 ft

    All tacked onto a munitions build (killer instinct for an energy unlock) none had energy issues, all were 100ft, Tier 0 and out performed the new and "improved" 2GM



  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    I was able to fully maintain TGM without a single problem by taking a bit of REC and picking up Overdrive. There are a couple of other ways I've managed to maintain it, but I found this way to be the most convenient. I still had over 10k HP from having 320 CON - you can easily drop that for even more energy or damage. I was EGO/CON/REC, but my crit chance was still fine. Geared with Gambler's Gems, Targeting Computer, Furious, and specs put me at over a constant 45% crit chance, and it's possible to go much higher if desired. So the DPS wasn't terrible at all due to that, and you can probably get away with Killer Instinct as an Energy Unlock if you still wanted to keep it. I still recommend having a decent amount of REC however since having a higher equilibrium offsets the high energy cost long enough to begin receiving energy returns.

    Just change around specs and whatnot to get power cost discount on the side and it's not a big deal. It's still a very strong power, so needing to pick up a few different specs or stats shouldn't be too big of a deal if you truly do like the power and/or theme.
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  • spookyspectrespookyspectre Posts: 435 Arc User
    Yay!! These balance changes are super needed and super appreciated! I know I had 8 stacks of Grouchy when Manipulator was nerfed but, fortunately, they fell off after 20 seconds. Keep up the good work! Keep the changes coming! And, I hope the Devs use the balance wand on Crowd Control too, at some point along the way.
  • jzaklanjzaklan Posts: 3 Arc User
    Been years since I posted, but since you're overhauling one of my favorite power sets I'll throw my two cents at you.

    I like the adjustments to the MA set, but I only like some of the pistol stuff.

    Firstly, 2GM is too expensive; efficiency is one of the main draws of the set. My best munitions toon, fully loaded, still runs out of energy which simply doesn't make any sense given the gear/stats on that toon--the cost is so high now that 2GM should properly be placed over in energy manipulation. I can take the same toon and spam assault rifle indefinitely, probably gatling gun too. I'm not saying that the cost should not be increased a little, but as it stands now the cost is far too high. At the current cost it might be more efficient to retcon into a fire build and spam conflag nonstop which can be accomplished in numerous different ways. A massive cost increase + a hit in dps = too big a kick to the face, so I hope you will lower the cost.

    Secondly, the new munitions power just leaves me wondering "why?" The animation is not good, and the furious buff you can take or leave. I run with a base crit percent that's over 40% and severity that's 100% not counting some other bonuses from the spec tree, so eating up another power spot so that I can herd stacks for another 5% (at most) bonus seems like an unnecessary complication.

    I like that there are more options available, and I believe that we will end with something better than what we have now.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Did some dps test with the new tgm. Added 1 AO: Lock n Load for this test, with ego surge it goes well over 5.1k.
    (postimg is slow, there is a screenshot here but might take a few minutes to load)


    And that is a build that can trivially spam any and all munition powers due to the munitions EU being so easy. Like to see a fire or lightning build that does significantly higher dps and can use all fire or lightning powers without any concern for energy.
  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    purin1 wrote: »
    What I have going for me: Int Secondary Superstat (~280), Cost Discount Justice (~300 Cost Reduction Rating). I don't get to maintain Two-Gun Mojo fully unless I get under the right timing with MSA and a full Energy Bar.

    I feel the costs need some toning down, but they aren't unmanageable.

    Slightly unrelated note, but I'm just letting you know I found that the Willpower buff from TGM procs Compassion. It's not much, but I thought it would be another nifty perk for Turando to have to make up for the higher energy cost.

    Oh yeah, the Two-gun changes would be lovely on Turando IF:
    -The Cost Change wasn't so drastic for him.
    -The Teir Change didn't destroy his current build.

    I will have to give up either Lead Tempest or Two-Gun Mojo, replacing what is lost with Burst Shot. It's a pretty major change to how he will be played too since I have to make a choice in his attack-utility. I sacrifice either the tool I use to clear out (Or gather the attention of) large, wide-spread groups or my main attack against tougher targets. All while keeping the healing he has. Or make a sacrifice and remove a tool that made Turando such a great combat medic, Bionic Shielding. I would still need to take Burst Shot to compensate for Two-Gun being moved up, but something's gotta give this time around.​​
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,256 Arc User
    Initial reaction to the 2GM changes: meh, to be honest. You'd have been better off reducing damage and leaving it at Tier wherever it was.

    As a solo player.... The split damage/cylinder effect isn't very obvious, doesn't work very well in practice (as it seems to have an odd mechanic centred on the targeted enemy rather than the area close to the player, which can leave you wondering why you're not attacking anyone, esp. if your target has been kb'd beyond 50ft) and results in a damage output against groups of mobs which is much inferior to Gatling Gun or Lead Tempest - so why choose it? Well....

    Against single targets, combined with Burst Shot, it still does just as much damage as it ever did, so there's no increase in difficulty against bosses - and I'm sure the widespread availability of a 15% damage debuff to one of the most popular in-game damage types will result in content becoming easier, rather than more difficult. The Energy cost increase seems odd, as now it's more expensive than Gatling Gun, which, again, makes neither thematic nor in-game sense.

    Haven't tried it with a team yet but I would suspect it to be spam-o-rama... Again, are you sure you want to allow people to stack munitions crits via Furious to this extent? Does the Burst Shot debuff stack? I hope not.

    A better approach would have been to leave 2GM where it was with a moderate damage reduction and single target mechanic, buff Assault Rifle (which is realistic) and SMG, and make the Burst Shot a Tier 3 power with a moderate charge, substantial single target damage and the 15% debuff - a kind of daredevil shot which would give the player a substantial benefit but with the risk inherent in a power with a charge up time.

  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    On a level 40 with Merc gear and purple SCR secondaries... I can get respectable energy management and dps on 2GM. With the added benefits.. it can be pretty much the only DPS attack you need. I tested it on a 5-man hard training room and an Elite Difficulty Fatal Error Run (solo). No noticeable trouble clearing mobs at all, it's quite good at it.

    So Spinny and other testers are correct in this regard.

    OTOH... dropping down to lvl 30 and using Leveling gear was an entirely different story. The energy cost was much too high and maintaining the power was quite difficult. I also want to test it out on a working Specialist ... as the the AT has more limited choices.

    This is an issue we run into on test. People test using a well-built high level FF. Then those results are reported back.. leaving out things like the leveling experience and AT experience. Leveling with the new 2GM (and it's current energy cost) doesn't seem like it would be much fun. You'd probably have to use something else.... and then retcon into a 2GM build later on.

    Others are welcome (and probably should) test out 2gm performance below lvl 40 with lower level gear.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    This is an issue we run into on test. People test using a well-built high level FF. Then those results are reported back.. leaving out things like the leveling experience and AT experience. Leveling with the new 2GM (and it's current energy cost) doesn't seem like it would be much fun. You'd probably have to use something else.... and then retcon into a 2GM build later on.

    Not at all, Mira and me did some tests on lower geared builds last night, which resulted in her (very good) idea of reducing the cost on lower ranks. Which she already posted about at the top of this page.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,195 Arc User
    Oh noes, anyone consider using *Gasp* Recovery as a Super Stat.

    \O._,_,_,_.O/

    Try Ego Prime, Con/Rec secondary and try Killer Instinct EU.
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  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 712 Community Moderator
    Removed some off-topic posts. Please limit comments to the updates listed in the OP.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    I tried it with a version of my Live two-gun character (who has REC as a secondary SS). I managed one full maintain of 2gm, then used my energy builder to, well, build energy. And honestly, I don't really see the problem with that particular bit - I mean, it's even called an Energy Builder power, why are you shocked and disappointed when you have to use it to build energy?
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,567 Arc User
    ladygadfly wrote: »
    Specialist Update
    - The Specialist Archetype can now choose between the following attacks:
    Level 1: Gunslinger or Rain of Steel
    Level 1: Burst Shot or Blade Tempest
    Level 6: Eye of the Storm
    Level 7: Lightning Reflexes or Way of the Warrior
    Level 11: Breakaway Shot or Thunderbolt Lunge
    Level 14: Form of the Tempest
    Level 17: Two-Gun Mojo or Bullet Beatdown
    Level 21: Parry
    Level 25: Killer Instinct or Steadfast
    Level 30: Holdout Shot
    Level 35: Lack n Load or Masterful Dodge
    Level 40: Lead Tempest or Sword Cyclone

    I have to say im really Impressed with the AT power Variety here!
    Now you can make a Specialists' builds who will be
    1. Range Dodge Tank
    2. Melee Dodge Tank
    3. Melee DPS
    4. Range DPS
    5. Dual Gun focused
    6. Dual Blade Foxues
    7. Dual Gun & Blade Mix

    This is AWESOME! I hope in the future more ATs get such flexible power choise onion-5.gif​​
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    spinnytop said:

    My character is Dex-Ego/Int with some stuff pumped into Recovery. It's a pretty big change. Not only is damage lowered but you can't maintain nearly as long. On live I can maintain a bunch of times before needing any more energy.

    I think the cost should be lowered.

    Here's a video of me spamming the bajeezus out of it on PTS. Very basic munitions dual pistol build. I don't know how long you were maintaining it, but I think there's a good amount of maintaining going on in here. Note that my damage sucks because I'm bad at building - that girl Lyn in the video standing next to me does like twice as much damage as I do and can also spam the bajeezus out of it just like I can. Maybe she'll post a video too. No energy builder used, and I even left my travel power on for the energy penalty ( since most times you'll have it on ).



    The cost doesn't appear to be an issue, and Lyn was still cranking out over 5k dps with it.

    objective feedback.

    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,256 Arc User
    Because they've done another classic Cryptic overcooked nerf, Jon.

    With Bombshell, I can stand there and spam the heck out of Gatling Gun, mowing down an infinite number of targets up to 100ft away, triggering endless crits and Quarry/FairGame self-heals and never even get below half energy on my third or fourth maintain. Why should a short range / small cylinder AoE attack which generates fewer advantage effects make me run out of energy by mid-second maintain? It do not make sense.

    Overall the effect is moderate on geared lvl40 characters - maybe I have to take REC instead of DEX as a secondary stat, or use Killer Instinct rather than Overdrive. But shifting 2GM up to Tier3 is nonsense, as it is its replacement at lower levels. A single shot debuff power at lvl6? Who are we going to be debuffing with that, exactly?
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    spinnytop said:

    My character is Dex-Ego/Int with some stuff pumped into Recovery. It's a pretty big change. Not only is damage lowered but you can't maintain nearly as long. On live I can maintain a bunch of times before needing any more energy.

    I think the cost should be lowered.

    Here's a video of me spamming the bajeezus out of it on PTS. Very basic munitions dual pistol build. I don't know how long you were maintaining it, but I think there's a good amount of maintaining going on in here. Note that my damage sucks because I'm bad at building - that girl Lyn in the video standing next to me does like twice as much damage as I do and can also spam the bajeezus out of it just like I can. Maybe she'll post a video too. No energy builder used, and I even left my travel power on for the energy penalty ( since most times you'll have it on ).



    The cost doesn't appear to be an issue, and Lyn was still cranking out over 5k dps with it.

    objective feedback.

    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.
    Yes you can maintain TGM without your EB on lower tier gear. No you can get 5k dps with lower tier gear. The test I as doing at the time were with an EGO/DEX/CON build, for that you do need an optimized build. If you go for something with END, you can use much lower ranked gear. Or with things like Overdrive, like Purin explained.
  • sagewithbubblessagewithbubbles Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    jonsills said:

    I mean, it's even called an Energy Builder power, why are you shocked and disappointed when you have to use it to build energy?

    Because they're the weakest part (from an implementation/player interaction/usability standpoint) of the entire combat system.

    "Toggle on an auto-attack til you can use the thing you actually want to use" is the reason why people hate the game's combat system early on.

    Even WoW got rid of "spam your wand auto until you can use the thing you actually want to use" for casters (casters being the closest analogue to CO's energy system).

    And reliance on it (instead of your Energy Unlock) until level 25 is why most of the ATs are so comparatively miserable while leveling.

    They also don't play nicely with 100-ft ranged builds, their animations usually suck and the pointing thing with melee builds looks really weird when you're otherwise moving around and ostensibly engaged in life or death combat.

    I'd pay Cryptic many potato to fund development of a new, standard, 3-point advantage on Energy Builders that buffs them to 100-ft range (for ranged damage ones).

    And then something comparable for melee, even for free, as long as they'd get rid of the damned pointing.

    Secret World's the only MMO that's done "resource-building" attacks properly, IMO. They do decent-ish damage, they aren't auto-attack-toggle-able, they feel weighty and impactful enough to make them worth pushing the button to use them and they can interact with a wide variety of procs to get more damage/rider effects/etc.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,256 Arc User



    Unfortunately, the new 2GM fails because:

    • It breaks lots of builds, some of which may not actually be looking for anything like the new 2GM.
    • It means you don't actually have an available primary dps pistol power until tier 3 powers are available.
    • It means you don't have a good single target option at all.
    • There are weapons other than pistols people might actually want to design around (for example, a soldier or 'soldier' might want to design around AR)
    So, here's how I'd prefer to see things changed (numbers are speculative; the point is that ammunition changes power cost and effect to be more suited to a high tier power).
    • 2GM loses concentration and defense penetration, and has its damage reduced to match its tier and cost.
    • Furious becomes a 2p advantage (meaning you can choose to use 2GM as a set-buff power).
    • New 'ammunition' powers are added. All 'ammunition' powers are short term buffs (last a full maintain, so 5s or so) that affect all 'gun' powers (pistol, rifle, SMG, shotgun, gatling) and change their behavior. For example:
      • Armor Piercing Rounds: +100% energy cost, -half (or -50%) damage resist.
      • Dum-Dum Rounds: +100% energy cost, +25% (crit layer) damage. Or adds a damage proc (like sniper gloves).
      • Explosive Rounds: +100% energy cost, -100% damage strength, adds an explosive proc (damage varies with attack speed) to all bullets (for an example of this, see how sonic device works).
      • Incendiary Rounds: +100% energy cost, adds a chance (varies with power speed, probably something like 30% x speed) to proc Clinging Flames.
      • Homing Rounds: +100% energy cost, +25% crit probability.
      • Rubber Bullets: +100% energy cost, adds a chance (varies with power speed) to knock.
    I like some of these ideas, especially the themed advantages (shame they couldn't be separate powers, as the idea of a Judge Dredd-style multi-ammo gun would be very cool indeed). However - while I'm giving my 2p worth, here's how I'd rework 2GM....

    Leave it where it is in the power Tiers.

    Put the power cost back where it was.

    Remove the extra Concentration stack. not needed.

    Remove the defense penetration. Not needed at lower levels. Make the new munitions power - Burst Shot - available at Tier 3. That's when a player starts becoming aware of debuffs and their effects. It's worth a power point (I have toons that do this by other means, and I'm always jealous of my elemental characters and their debuffs).

    Make the "Close The Gap" advantage compulsory and lower the base damage so that 2GM only gives the current output if you're in melee range of the enemy. This will reduce the ability to spam bosses, and make players choose safety vs damage.

    Give Assault Rifle users the same movement advantages as 2GM. As an infinite number of Ak-47 users have shown, it is possible to fire one of those things on full auto and run around at the same time. It should be here, too.

    If 2GM is seen too much in the game that's because it gives good, reliable damage and synergises well with lots of passives and different playstyles. That doesn't make the power OP - it's a comment on the failures of other power trees which push people too hard into choosing between being a tank or a glass cannon. Don't nerf it too hard out of a misplaced sense of tidyness and continuity.





  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    bazodee said:


    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.

    If I pull out one of my cost discount mods, the cost of the power doesn't even change by a single point. I doubt the Defense mod or the crit mod ( which raises my crit by like 1% ) are really responsible for this either. I'll grab some heroic gear and do it again if you want yet another video of me standing there spamming 2gun mojo - what song do you want me to randomly toss in this time?
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,820 Arc User
    So, I've just been catching up on forums...and seen this massive update on PTS.

    Based on comments, it seems like a massive disaster has occurred.

    I've taken my "Bionic Bullet" build which uses all of the munitions powers which were adjusted (2GM, LT and Sniper Rifle).

    I am not seeing how this adjustment is -that- bad?

    Granted this is from a level 40 perspective, so from a leveling point of view this is an issue.

    I'm personally seeing boosts in survival from this adjustment, and it actually makes me use the rest of my build. It also sort of makes me energy aware, which is a good thing.

    I don't find the damage reduction to be that bad actually.

    That's just my opinion though.
  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    In my opinion Furious is a bit too hard to maintain in the Beastial set. Frenzy seems to be the only source which means that is the only power you can use if you want to keep a high number of stacks since the Furious buff decays per instance of the buff. It would be nice if Shred or possibly Massacre refreshed Furious on hit, similar to how Burst Shot w/ adv works for the Munitions set.

    I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but the heal tied to the Furious buff does not appear to scale with any stats. It's always 96 hp per tick.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 712 Community Moderator
    There's a lot of discussion in this thread. In the interest of making the bugs known to the developers, here's a list of what people have mentioned so far (apologies if I missed anything):

    BUGS
    • The Specialist is unable to purchase powers.
    • Burst Shot's advantage Taking Names contains typos. Typos are in green: "If you are not affected by Furious Burst SHot will apply one stack<br.<br>" There should also probably be a comma between "Furious" and "Burst".
    • The description of Burst Shot's advantage Off Your Feat is a copy-paste of the Taking Names advantage.
    • Burst Shot's Taking Names advantage causes it to apply multiple instances of Furious (1 per target hit).
    • If the Furious stack wears off while Burst Shot (with Taking Names) is animating, it will not apply Furious.
    • **OLD BUG** Frenzy is still listed as a Combo attack, but does not receive any benefits from Combo-related specializations.
    • When removing Frenzy's Fear Sense advantage at the trainer, the mouseover description is that of the old Fear Sense.
    • Single-target powers that have been changed to AoEs (Two-Gun Mojo and the new melee cones) are not flagged as AoE powers for the purpose of specializations.
    • **OLD BUG** Shred (2nd animation) and Frenzy (all 3 animations) are bugged when flying. The character's legs appear as if they're stepping on the ground.
    • The Mardi Gras mask is linked to the eye mesh. When the character blinks, the eyeholes in the mask constrict. This is more evident for females compared to males.

    BUGS (???)
    • The mouseover description for the Furious icon reads "Bonus to Offense". It should probably say "Bonus to Critical Chance" to prevent confusion with the Offense statistic.
    • Burst Shot's advantage Off Your Feat; is it an intentional play on words, or a typo?
    • Burst Shot's Rank 3 costs 1 advantage point. It is unclear whether this is intentional.
    @kaizerin @ladygadfly @crypticarkayne
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,820 Arc User
    In addition to this:

    Bug: Armor Piercing's buff icon description states it grants a "Slashing and Physical resistance debuff". This should be adjusted to: "Crushing and Piercing resistance debuff".
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,820 Arc User
    falchoin said:

    I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but the heal tied to the Furious buff does not appear to scale with any stats. It's always 96 hp per tick.

    Eeeh...I get 111 per tick with Furious' Willpower boost.
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 712 Community Moderator
    edited February 2016
    BUG: Burst Shot is a Blast, but is not labeled as such in its description

    SUGGESTION: Burst Shot's animation is rather plain, and doesn't flow well with other power animations. Perhaps the animation from Bullet Beatdown's second attack would be more visually appealing; its three rapid-fire shots seem to better illustrate the concept of a "burst shot".
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    spinnytop said:

    My character is Dex-Ego/Int with some stuff pumped into Recovery. It's a pretty big change. Not only is damage lowered but you can't maintain nearly as long. On live I can maintain a bunch of times before needing any more energy.

    I think the cost should be lowered.

    Here's a video of me spamming the bajeezus out of it on PTS. Very basic munitions dual pistol build. I don't know how long you were maintaining it, but I think there's a good amount of maintaining going on in here. Note that my damage sucks because I'm bad at building - that girl Lyn in the video standing next to me does like twice as much damage as I do and can also spam the bajeezus out of it just like I can. Maybe she'll post a video too. No energy builder used, and I even left my travel power on for the energy penalty ( since most times you'll have it on ).



    The cost doesn't appear to be an issue, and Lyn was still cranking out over 5k dps with it.

    objective feedback.

    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.
    Yes you can maintain TGM without your EB on lower tier gear. No you can get 5k dps with lower tier gear. The test I as doing at the time were with an EGO/DEX/CON build, for that you do need an optimized build. If you go for something with END, you can use much lower ranked gear. Or with things like Overdrive, like Purin explained.
    Okay. I just want to see it is all, after all, spinny made a vid with J-Gear. Anyone can say anything, but unless their is video proof(much like the internet rule, 'pics or it didn't happen'.) It's just a wild speculation, in my eyes.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    bazodee said:


    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.

    If I pull out one of my cost discount mods, the cost of the power doesn't even change by a single point. I doubt the Defense mod or the crit mod ( which raises my crit by like 1% ) are really responsible for this either. I'll grab some heroic gear and do it again if you want yet another video of me standing there spamming 2gun mojo - what song do you want me to randomly toss in this time?
    No need for music, just make the video.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,820 Arc User

    Okay. I just want to see it is all, after all, spinny made a vid with J-Gear. Anyone can say anything, but unless their is video proof(much like the internet rule, 'pics or it didn't happen'.) It's just a wild speculation, in my eyes.

    Personally I am using a full Legion Gear build with 7s (EGO/CON/INT) and not having too many issues. If I time it right I am sure I could maintain "forever" but I haven't been able to yet.

    Whilst I would prefer a slight adjustment to the current cost of 2GM. Either through reducing cost per rank or flat out reducing the cost....an alternative could be baked into the power in another way:

    What if Furious granted a small energy over time component whenever you gained stacks (in addition to Willpower)? That might seem like a lot to be honest but it's just an idea.

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User


    No need for music, just make the video.

    Well I mean there's gonna be music at some point in the video otherwise where's the fun in it for me. It probably won't be today either... thinking of playing dark souls today instead of co.
  • bazodeebazodee Posts: 151 Arc User
    Did some more re-arranging with Overdrive and energy performance is a bit better, not on par with live at the moment where my Rec was covered only by 2nd Gear.

    Had to stack at least one Rec mod on PTS for my dodge Dex/Con/Int toon. I'm beginning to think energy management for 2gun is now going to be dependent on a Ego/Rec stacked toon.

    First got hit by the Int nerf, now my spec ops toon has to deal with energy issues, bah!

    I don't like Sigs, but I'll leave this here anyway. At least I'm not to trying to hypnotise you with moving things!
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    spinnytop said:


    No need for music, just make the video.

    Well I mean there's gonna be music at some point in the video otherwise where's the fun in it for me. It probably won't be today either... thinking of playing dark souls today instead of co.
    Cool :), and put whatever you like, I mostly leave youtube on mute on account of either obnoxious commentary, or off-music. :/
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    bazodee said:

    Did some more re-arranging with Overdrive and energy performance is a bit better, not on par with live at the moment where my Rec was covered only by 2nd Gear.

    Had to stack at least one Rec mod on PTS for my dodge Dex/Con/Int toon. I'm beginning to think energy management for 2gun is now going to be dependent on a Ego/Rec stacked toon.

    First got hit by the Int nerf, now my spec ops toon has to deal with energy issues, bah!

    In geneal, I hate having to go outside of my choosen SS for end management(which is usually why most people do anyway, or so I've seen.) Sure some EU try to cater to different SS than the ones for end, but they don't do enough, or scale on powers that are counter-inductive of choice. Say you want a clicky(melee) build, and go with the setup of DEX/CON/STR to maximize damage or if you just feel like it. Well, sorry, there's no EU that'll help you with energy, so get ready to dip all your talents into INT/REC. :/:rage:
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • kaosarcannakaosarcanna Posts: 124 Arc User
    If current 2GM was moved to Tier 3 with no other changes to it, would it still be outperforming other Tier 3 powers?
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited February 2016



    But I saw how: J-Gear do it with, say...heroics of energy efficiency, as that'll be the standard.


    I did it with MERC gear and purple secondaries from the vendor. It even works with MERC gear and Questionite secondaries

    EGO/Dex/Int (gear & stats for REC & Crit chance).. quarry, and Killer Instinct. Pre-40 it's a bit tougher... but at 40 you can honeslty spam the heck out of this endlessly.
    Questions About AT Play? Visit Silverwolfx11's Updated AT Guides!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,060 Arc User

    If current 2GM was moved to Tier 3 with no other changes to it, would it still be outperforming other Tier 3 powers?

    Yes.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    gradii said:

    xrazamax said:

    Hello!

    This is my Suggestion - please take time to read it!

    Two Gun Mojo has 3 things that make it popular: 1. Mobility 2. Huge damage output 3. You can fire it kinda non stop

    And you can still have all of these things with these changes! But because of the cost increase, it is only possible with the proper gear - this can expen$ive for some players :C It could also really pigeon hole them just because they want to use a cool and fun power. Studdering powers that quickly give you a "Not enough Energy" message is not fun :T

    I think a good balance would be if rank 1 of 2GM cost less energy than rank 2, and rank 2 cost less than rank 3. If players want to still spam that power around, they can by not ranking up the power to rank 2 or rank 3. Lower damage, but more bullets :3
    This will also let players who are at lower levels still use the power to its fullest effect without having to invest heavily into gear. At level 30, you probably won't be able to use 2GM without quickly running out of energy. With a tiered power cost according to power rank, everyone can go guns blazing!

    Just drastically lower the cost period. It's much too high.
    It isn't too high for what it does. If the cost it to be flat out reduced, it either needs to lose more damage or no longer have the buffs it provides. Taking it into Andrith, I could go much faster because I was getting health back continously, hitting more enemies, and getting more energy. I was using Mercenary gear with rank 5 mods and vigil with an emphasis on crits and cost discount. My ego was 450, endurance was Talents only, and I took Con to about under 150 I think.

    It preformed very well.

    However, I proposed the idea of energy cost scaling with rank because well... I needed 450 Ego :\ And even Mercenary gear and purple secondaries is something you won't get till level 40. So with that in mind, I thought that when you are level 30 or late 20s, you won't have the gear to run 2GM effectively. That is when its energy cost should be lower.

    But for the performance of the power (which still is a top 3 dps power and unlike Lightning, you are not rooted) the energy consumption is warranted. But even though it is warranted, the "leveling" concern is valid - most people will not have the energy for 2GM :(
This discussion has been closed.