I though CCP stopped releasing their sub numbers for Eve a long time ago and that most people think it's because the numbers are going down the drain.
I didn't say anything about sandbox. I said add random elements to what's already there. Loot grind games are not sandbox games.
You stated theme park and there are only two types of MMOs; theme park and sandbox, and if you are denouncing a theme park that leaves one option. Saying a sandpark is a third option as it's a bit of a misnomer, as that's just a theme park with small sandbox type elements in it done very poorly. For instance, if a theme park tries to adopt a decent crafting system but in order for a sandbox style crafting system to work, elements have to actually degrade but not only that they do not have to replace elements at intervals, but they can't be lossed either so it's a dead system. (why the main reason that crafting was a big bust here in Champions and that in most other MMOs the only crafting system that ever seems to work is the potion system since those elements need to be replaced, or would if they wouldn't stop making everything super easy).
As far as EVE and sub numbers, I have no idea. If they are going down they are going down. Nothing lasts forever. But I do know WoW stopped releasing their's because they've lost over 6 million subs.
Open up more caves and building for some quick quests. Being that they are instances, having random elements would be easier than open world stuff. Have mobs move around instead of always being in the same spot. Have different aggro ranges. Slight variations on existing mobs. Random maps aren't needed. Random elements on existing mobs would be fine. Low tier enemies can stay the same, but give two and three HP bar enemies some interesting effects. Have some named villains show up occasionally. I'm sure there are all sorts of lore enemies that people would love to bump into. Difficulty levels could instead change the number of higher tier enemies in an instance. Elite setting means you have a high chance of getting a unique villain plus more higher tier enemies.
Random maps might not be needed, but they shouldn't be hard to do. We had procedural map generation *before DOS* and *before personal computers*. This is not something that should be hard to do in 2016.
Nice list, indeed. There's definitely a difference between personal tastes and popular. Personally, I hate GW2 and someone would have to pay me to play it again anymore. Same with ArcheAge, The Ultimate Fake Free-to-Play.
What makes a game popular seems to be based on 3 factors : investment, rewards and communication.
That list doesn't really surprise me for the most part, though I would still argue that Marvel Heroes doesn't really count. Different people have different criteria, I suppose. And yes, Runescape, despite being an ancient game originally built in java and being a janky mess, still pulls enough popularity to even consistently rank as one of the top viewed games on Twitch. I don't know how or why, as I haven't played it regularly myself since I was in high school, at most.
I do play a couple of the other games on that list quite a bit and quite enjoy them, but as people have been saying for a while, CO has something the "most popular games" lack, and that's the reason I came back to it, meager population be damned.
"if you are denouncing a theme park that leaves one option"
Lol. OK. You want to keep the horse blinders on, be my guest. Considering I just outlined how to potentially move away from theme park while not going full blown sandbox, there appears to be other options that could work.
It should be telling that after spending a year on each expansion that even the juggernaut that is WoW can't keep up with content demands for its game. Hardcore players blow through that stuff in a day or two and casual players are done in a month or two. That's insane. If a company with those resources can't keep up, something as small as, well, everyone else is just making things impossible for themselves when they could be exploring other options. Why you would say Cryptic should pigeonhole themselves instead of taking ideas from the plethora of other games types is baffling.
I would take what massively says with a mountain of salt considering they have zero integrity or ability to spend all of five minutes fact checking stuff they want to pass off as news. Sadly, other MMO "news" sites are just as bad.
"if you are denouncing a theme park that leaves one option"
Lol. OK. You want to keep the horse blinders on, be my guest. Considering I just outlined how to potentially move away from theme park while not going full blown sandbox, there appears to be other options that could work.
*shakes head and sighs* You are either in a theme park or a sandbox. Since a theme park is a generalization of visiting static locals that never change and always offer the same events and quests then that is exactly what the majority of MMOs on the market are now.
You call it blinders but you have not once outlined anything that demonstrates a difference. MOBA's are not MMOs it's a completely different genre, an arena game that isn't even massive on scale, since matches are between two teams of five people each, for a total of 10 players. What you are trying to do is reinvent the wheel, but the wheel isn't going to change just because you don't like the fact that you have theme park and sandbox, and rarely do the two mesh well together. Trying to take sandbox elements and inject them into a theme park doesn't work well unless you account for the elements that work for a sandbox, and trying to inject a theme park into a sandbox MMO doesn't work well because the sandbox rarely accounts for the fact that theme parks are often safer and softer to their players than sandbox games.
An example, a sandbox game usually has harsh death, such as a loss of items and possibly even funds. Theme parks typically stay away from that, usually implementing a soft penalty system that is barely even felt most of the time. And just like my crafting analogy, a sandbox based crafting system doesn't work unless items are continuously in flux and require replacement, thus driving an economy. This is why crafting systems in theme park MMOs fail hardcore.
Now, while you may pretend their are other types, it all boils down to Theme Park or Sandbox. One or the other may attempt to dabble in effects of the other, but in the end such things rarely work because the rules required for that particular rule set doesn't work in the rule sets often tailored for the other.
Is that in the MMO developer's Bible? Thou shall not be creative?
There are already games that exist and don't fit into any one category. I wouldn't consider ArcheAge to be a theme park or a sandbox. It takes bits and pieces from various game types. AA heavily uses typical mechanics found in casual mobile games. Does that make AA a mobile game?
If all of the zones in CO used the scary monster scaling and all zones could be accessed from level 1, it couldn't really be called a theme park anymore. But it wouldn't be a sandbox either.
My comment about being a MOBA was flippant. I thought the time machine part made that clear. RS3, PoE, and D3 aren't MOBAs.
Video games have been around since the 1950s. Coming up with a totally original idea at this point is bordering on impossible. My suggestions were specifically chosen because I believe they could be enhancements to content and mechanics that already exist in CO. There is nothing about completely gutting the entire game and turning into something totally different. The games I chose were because they have similarities to CO. There's not really a huge difference between an oARPG and a MMOARPG. The biggest odd-ball is the SNES game which is why I only talked about trinity and party composition.
Will random people on the street know whom Volibear or another LoL character is, compared to the likes of Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman?
You pretty much just proved the point people were trying to explain to you. DCUO and Marvel aren't better games, they're just based around a more recognizable IP, which is a change that CO can never implement. Ask someone on the street if they know who Defender is.... now ask them who Iron Man is... which one do you think will get the answer "I saw him in a movie recently".
If I make an MMO based on Lord of the Rings, and I make an MMO called "Land of Elves", which one do you think will get more players in the first month? The answer is obvious, and doesn't change even if Land of Elves is a much better game than the lord of the rings one. More players equals more money equals more development. In the long run, the LotR mmo is more likely to be successful, even if it is the worse game of the two.
Having people play your game just because it's associated with a name they recognize is kind of a big deal. Marvel/DC have a much, much bigger following than City of Heroes or the Champions IP.
People can never find out that your game is better if they never play it because they're already playing another game. Even if you show someone a hundred advertisements for "Champions Online", it's not guaranteed to get them to stop playing Marvel game or DC game. In fact it's likely that the Gucci effect will come into play.. you know, how people will look at anything without a well known brand name on it as an inferior product by virtue of the name? Comic Book nerds are known to have brand loyalty, and gamers are notorious for it. Now combine the two.
How about turning this around? Instead of talking about other people, what made you decide to play and eventually stay on?.
If there's a common thread then the game just needs to make that aspect more obvious or accessible.
I played Champions in college, and loved the fact that I could make literally almost any character (the Spaghetti derived from a rather disastrous dinner during a long gaming party - it had Stretching and Clinging with its many tentacles, superhuman strength, and got around on a gravitic plate (which reduced the point bonus for "no legs" considerably)).
Saw an ad for CO on Facebook one day, back before FFA, and gave it a shot on a free weekend. Unfortunately, I was conditioned by the old Champs character-creation method, and had a hard time figuring out how to make it work here; there were no ATs to give examples, and that was back when "half-graphics" was ON by default, so between the crappy visuals (that I could have fixed, had I but known) and the unfamiliarity with how to make a toon, I gave up on it. Fast-forward to some time later, and I saw a blurb for FFA, and figured as long as it was free, I'd give it another shot. Didn't take long after that before I wanted a sub; actually managed to eke one out for a few months, got my taste of the Gold life, and kept working to get back to that despite personal financial issues. (That's why I don't regret going LTS for a moment, even at full price - I never have to worry about losing my Gold status again!)
What's kept me playing is the fact that I can be endlessly creative. In WoW, as an example, your creativity is constrained by certain classes only being open to certain races, and your starting stats being predetermined no matter what you'd like to play. Here, even if I'm using an AT I get some choices about which stats I want to emphasize starting pretty early on, and when I get an item that grants me boosts I want I don't have to abandon the costume I spent so much time working on (some of the WoW items can get pretty freaking ugly!). Do I feel like playing a half-elven mystical warrior clad in leather? CO will let me do that, especially with Freeform (take some Single Blade powers, some magical powers, maybe something with a bow just to round it out, and make the costume using pieces with the Leather texture in brown). Tech genius? I've got three, each distinct from the others. Good old-fashioned spandex-clad punchmaster? Let me introduce you to Hypernova, Captain Punchfist, and Strongarm. And so forth. (Okay, Strongarm isn't really spandex as such - he wears jeans, a trench coat, and a T-shirt with his logo on it - but close enough.) Boys, girls, both, neither - doesn't matter, the Character Creator will accommodate me. Add in a Foundry, and I'd never log out.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It's called a first-mover advantage. Unknown characters have their best chance to succeed if they get in and break through before somebody else does with an IP that already has mass-market success. If Marvel or DC had launched a superhero MMO before Cryptic did, CoH would have been DOA. WoW would have faced much stronger competition if LOTRO had launched around the same time, not years later. LoL and DotA have become 800 lb. gorillas mostly because they reached critical mass before anybody with estabished characters moved into the MOBA genre. HotS will succeed on Blizzard's sheer mass alone, but does anybody here remember Infinite Crisis? A MOBA developed by Turbine, but having a DC Comics roster couldn't stop it from going from launch to shutdown in five months.
What I find interesting is that the land rush for 1st/3rd person MOBA shooters (Overwatch, Battleborn, Battlecry, Paragon, LawBreakers) are all new IPs.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
A community that could actually agree on something for once.
It is a grudge thing imo, going to be the bigger man and drop it. This forum is full of males whom catch waaay tooo many feelings...it aint that deep....ok...we disagreed in the past....do we have to disagree about everything? Even simple mathematics?
Anyway, I agree with your post, peace out folks, gonna be the bigger man and drop it.
How about turning this around? Instead of talking about other people, what made you decide to play and eventually stay on?.
If there's a common thread then the game just needs to make that aspect more obvious or accessible.
The costume creators, knocking things half a city block with my fists, and high speed movement. That first ridiculous looking character I made, and the first time I hit something with Room Sweeper on my Behemoth were pretty much the two most important moments in getting me interested in playing this game for years to come. Travel powers just by virtue of their speed were already a big deal, but it was when I realized that I could use them in combat to great effect that this pretty much became my favorite mmo ever.
Yep, tailor customization the likes of which I have never seen, simple and fun gameplay mechanics, familiar layout and presentation, stylized graphics, a setting that does not take itself too seriously, a rich p&p history with decades worth of printed lore...
those are some of the things I can think of off the top of my head that have kept my playing CO
I know the only reason I'm currently playing is because of the free FreeForm slot. $50 for a single one is an insane price. The value of a Life Time sub is way way way down considering how long the game has been out. Playing ATs is terrible compared to FFs. If I could make multiple FreeForms for a reasonable price, I would, even with the lack luster Silver limitations.
I feel like more people would be willing to put money into the game if they were actually playing it. Meaning, if they could actually just play FreeForm characters. Active players buy costume sets. active players buy keys. Active players keep the game going. But if you have this massive paywall between being active and just not bothering with the game, that's just money not going into the game. That's just less active players. The monthly subscription isn't viable to those of us who are adults with busy lives. Sure, we might be able to afford it, but we'd hardly be getting our money's worth. Some retired people and middle class people might be fine with blowing away 15 dollars a month like it's nothing, but budget gamers just don't have that luxury. Maybe this game is meant for "whale" players though, I could be wrong. i know a ton of people here get snooty when people talk about the ridiculous FreeForm slot price and how at this point in time Lifetime isn't worth 300 dollars anymore, but surely you can see where we're coming from.
If I could make multiple FreeForms for a reasonable price, I would, even with the lack luster Silver limitations.
200$ during an LTS sale gets you somewhere around 14 freeform slots, which would cost you 700$ buying them seperately (to say nothing of the added value of everything else you get as well), and every time you level a character to 40, you get a new slot so you essentially never have to buy character slots again...how much more reasonable do you want?
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="spinnytop">Hey I have an idea, surprised nobody mentioned it yet. Why not implement the reputation system from STO into CO?</blockquote>This would float the hell outta my boat.
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="kemmicals">A community that could actually agree on something for once.</blockquote>Sooo a hivemind?
Commit to expanding explore/build/develop types of gameplay. There's a huge potential market of people who don't play MMOs now because most MMOs are all about e-peen and challenge. Ignore PvP. Ignore standard MMO players. The only possible successful future for CO is capturing non-traditional MMO players.
(The Tailor is already amazing for this, and freeform character building is reasonably awesome. We need gameplay which embraces this kind of sandbox to go with it).
Readding all the old drops into the game as buy only certainly does the opposite of attract players. The amount of things they added that you have to buy now justifies a new zone or two easily. But we're never getting it. Asking each player to spend hundreds each isn't enough for Cryptic.
Commit to expanding explore/build/develop types of gameplay. There's a huge potential market of people who don't play MMOs now because most MMOs are all about e-peen and challenge. Ignore PvP. Ignore standard MMO players. The only possible successful future for CO is capturing non-traditional MMO players.
Do you have any specific ideas, or should we just drop an actual sandbox in the middle of rencen? People don't duel there anymore so we have the space available.
Commit to expanding explore/build/develop types of gameplay. There's a huge potential market of people who don't play MMOs now because most MMOs are all about e-peen and challenge. Ignore PvP. Ignore standard MMO players. The only possible successful future for CO is capturing non-traditional MMO players.
Do you have any specific ideas, or should we just drop an actual sandbox in the middle of rencen? People don't duel there anymore so we have the space available.
Foundry! (Basically all player types) - i don't care how much effort it is, it would be worth it. (and since tagging assets seems to be the major hurdle - that's a compartmentalizable process which could be worked on piecemeal). Random Non-linear Maps (World exploration players, minimal effort) More Nemesis missions/plotlines/options (world exploration, story-focused, builders)
All of which I'm sure I've mentioned before.
Comic series! (background/story)
And if I was being paid to develop content, I'm sure I could churn out another dozen ideas within an hour which would at least be worth thinking about.
Bonus thoughts:
SG Hideouts (most player types, but especially builders): Have them variously upgradeable (with missions that go toward acquiring upgrades without being too time intensive) in a non-linear way (and swappable by doing the alternate missions) - all of which builds towards various kinds of challenges for which the upgrades are relevant. Heck, do it for regular hideouts - SG hideouts would encourage cryptic to put insane grind on it, and that's not the point. The point is to be able to do the final content play modes, with the missions to acquire components for story/flavor, not grind.
Nemesis team-up (story and development players). No, not Nemcon. Six of your nemeses team up to get you. (Yes, 6. As in Sinister Six from Spider-Man).
Customizable sidekicks (Build, Story, Develop). Design an outfit and choose a powerset for your sidekick. Could use the nemesis interface. Have the customizable sidekick be a device you buy with zen. (I'd say 1500 zen, but the price of the current loyal sidekick would - and should - come down).
Personally... I'd like Level 40, 5v5, player vs player controlled enemy. A Grab Alert / Lair set up, but where the Villains can team, have tactics, with mini-missions/objectives for both sides. Running time per game about 20-30 minutes. Villains would be player-grade +1, not Onslaught grade, with different roles to play (Main Villain, Nemesis Villain, Enforcer, Security/Pet Commander). Keep it fresh by having new Villains from elsewhere in the game and a quick rotation of lairs, random one-shot device drops for both sides, environmental traps, and other wise letting everyone go have a laugh with their fully levelled toons.
I belonged to a Gaming Club- Gamers Guild- Perth. Guys discuss what computer games they are playing.
Started playing, liked it, kept playing.
NOT- playing for Super hero genre.
Playing because I like the game play.
Personally... I'd like Level 40, 5v5, player vs player controlled enemy. A Grab Alert / Lair set up, but where the Villains can team, have tactics, with mini-missions/objectives for both sides. Running time per game about 20-30 minutes. Villains would be player-grade +1, not Onslaught grade, with different roles to play (Main Villain, Nemesis Villain, Enforcer, Security/Pet Commander). Keep it fresh by having new Villains from elsewhere in the game and a quick rotation of lairs, random one-shot device drops for both sides, environmental traps, and other wise letting everyone go have a laugh with their fully levelled toons.
sounds like the Foundry
Vehicle chop shop-
not exactly the tailor.
has a variety of body parts,chassis, seats, storage, tubes, lifters. That people can make or buy to make up their vehicle
Go collect the bits you need to make the parts.
Design weapons for it- area, targets, maintain, charge etc, type of damage. with a limit on total, so one goes up another can't be past a certain level.
use your crafting to make up the paint and ornaments for it.
decide on the stats for it. higher stats need more hard to get items.
Save your design.
either have your design as free for anyone to use- token Q charge for them using your design.
Unique- you pay to keep it unique.
I like the idea of the foundry. Unfortunately, all information points to us never getting it. I'll be happy if we do get it, even though I know most of you will refuse to play my Dark COuls missions
I like the idea of the foundry. Unfortunately, all information points to us never getting it. I'll be happy if we do get it, even though I know most of you will refuse to play my Dark COuls missions
*shudder* not with the description of what went into the Bait cookies.
I think a big help to get new players to stay is to make Archetypes NOT worthless for lategame content.
A common problem I see while leveling up a freeform character are solo ATs struggling to handle level 30+ missions. I frequently see these players requesting help in Zone chat because their ATs cannot survive even on Normal difficulty. This is because most ATs do not have Constitution as a superstat and many new players do not know that stacking Constitution is a REQUIREMENT, not an OPTION, even if it is not one of their Superstats.
At this point they tend to give up because they cannot complete missions or become annoyed that they cannot build the hero they want to build. It's stack CON or stop playing. I have a few friends who were in this boat and have stopped playing altogether.
That's why I think changing the free-to-play Archetypes to be more survivable and less worthless would encourage new players to stay.
And whenever I post a pic using a lot of hashtags, hudreds of people see it on any of the pages for those tags. So slowly but surely I'm getting the word out.
Here's two things I know can be done with a minimum of work- 1) Fully open up the hideouts (I don't care if all the promised bells and whistles are active), and 2) Automatically unlock Vibora Bay when your character hits level 40, because having to to the VBA on every character is an unneeded bottleneck to an entire zone that's been part of the game for a long time.
ATs as build templates you can select but with Freeform unlocked for everyone.
It was always a shame that the creativity and flexibility of the build system was something the vast majority of players never really got to explore.
Also sidesteps the issue of some of the ATs being rather sub-par.
Sort of off target... How about going thru the "Innate Talents" and making a full mix of bonuses, instead of the duplicated/nearly duplicated mess that is there now. If you look at the point system used to keep these equal the formula is simple enough to make this an easy "mini Free Form".
Formula is: If (Stat -5)>5 then (5+(Stat-10*2)=Value repeat for each Stat in Innate Talent If (Stat -5)<=5 then (Stat)=Value repeat for each Stat in Innate Talent
If you apply this simple formula to any of the current Innate Talents they All come out to 18 points.
So why not let the (Free Form only?) players have this option, instead of the "Pick one that is only sort of what you want" ?
I think a big help to get new players to stay is to make Archetypes NOT worthless for lategame content.
Oh like the END/EGO/REC Tempest AT I completed TA with which has no CON?
Without dying several times? Or did you have a good team with you?
Now try soloing Adventure Packs on Elite challenge level like many CON-stacked heroes can. Or fight some Onslaught Villains without being one-shot. Or Gravitar alert without needing multiple revives.
Not really... only in the sense of being a "play it how you want it" sandbox section of the game. At the moment we seem to be stuck in a bit of a war of ideas. New content with a fixed script gets blown out in days because the AI isn't particularly clever and the players know the game better than the devs do. The devs seem to be responding by nerfing things so that people stick to the script, which is just exasperating.
The best answer to me seems to be to tear the script up.
PvP doesn't work anymore because that's been worked out and anyone who doesn't know the rules will be wiped out in short order. The only way to prevent that happening is to reduce the number of rules and keep changing the roles and settings available to the players.
Onslaught brought an amazing number of people back to the game when it was launched, but they all went away because of the grind and the one-sided gameplay. There's clearly a lot of interest in unscripted player-vs-villain content - that just needs to be instanced in a number of settings and packaged up like alerts.... There's so many great villians, settings and maps already in game that could be re-used; instead of a few weeks' worth of lair they could use the time to create the lvl40 end game that people have been after for so long.
A few stacks of AoPM or AoRP will always help the squishies survive. But it is true that you don't necessarily need CON as a superstat to be able to do bosses, adventure packs, etc - you will need an AD of some kind and IDF always helps, but it can be done. It's actually more fun, too - often puts the gameplay in the sweet spot between too easy and too hard.
We all know by now that not many people are playing this game, there's no need to bring up the charts or anything, this is not a topic about low population, but to suggest some ideas that could be useful. I would love to hear your opinions on what changes (try to keep it reasonable) could help to bring in more people to CO? Either new players or returning players? very probably the devs won't change anything based on this, but still it would be interesting to hear your opinions on what changes could help with population.
To me, some changes that could really help with population would be to find a fair way to give a taste of freeform to silver players, the specifics would have to be discussed, but many ideas have been given in the topic about it. Other idea would be to have daily quests in areas other than MC, maybe each day have 1 quest in each different area. this has been also discussed in other topic. And a final idea would be to find a way to have more comic adventures, maybe not creating new maps but editing them (like the exterior of whiteout).
what are your ideas?
Wow... this thread is 9 pages already! I have only read the first page, so forgive me if I repeat someone's idea(s).
I agree with people who suggested more advertising and changes to FTP/Gold/Lifetime benefits. There are a lot of potential players out there, and even a few website ads about this game will perk SOMEONE's interest. I also think that the membership benefits of this game are a bit outdated and confining. The one membership level that is missing is Premium (or Freemium as it is better known for). For example: if a Silver Member has spent a certain amount of Zen (say, 3000) then that player will be a Premium Member with more in game benefits such as: 3 more character slots and 1 Free Form slot. The resource pool will be increased to 100,000. Access to 3 more archetypes, 2 gold member hideouts, and 6 gold member costume sets will be granted. Of course, offering benefits like these may keep players at the premium level, but they will work to get there and actually enjoy more of the game, which means they will play more and get more of their friends to play. From my experience, Premium players will shop from the game store as much or even more than free players.
The Lifetime Membership needs to be the pinnacle of all memberships, instead of a couple of steps above Gold. Lifetime members should have access to every costume set, travel powers and auras that are available in the Zen store. No Lifetime member should need cosmic keys to open any lockbox. Every hideout should be available to Lifetime members. All currencies that Lifetime members own should be account bound, not character bound. The monthly zen stipend for Lifetime members should be 800 zen, as well as 200 Drifter Salvage and 200 Gold Champion Recognition. Lifetime members should receive these permanent teleport devices for each toon: teleport to Ren Center, team teleport and teleport to teammate as well as permanent recovery 4 packs for each toon. It is a lot to ask for, but in my opinion, a Lifetime membership is a luxurious privelege, and the membership needs to reflect that.
Comic and Adventure Pack missions need better rewards and have those rewards make sense. For example, since the devs want to promote teaming, 25 SCR and 25 GCR should be rewarded in Comic and Adventure packs if players do those missions with a full team of 5. Since those missions can only be played 4 times a day, players will earn 100 SCR and 100 GCR each day for playing them. I think more players will revisit Comic and Adventure packs if this was offered. Loot drops should be in sync with the content, such as Emily Lovett permanent sidekick as a loot drop in Aftershock and Vibora Bay Apocolypse. It would be nice if the devs revisited the Comic/Adventure packs and tell more of their stories....
Socrates should be in every zone in the game and offer NPC missions that reflect the zone and the level of the character. In addition to the repeatable missions from different zones, Socrates should allow players to queue for event zone missions like Qwijibo and Kigilitik. It is hard to get other players to do these missions because a large amount of players are needed and players have to be in a specific area to get the event to spawn. Also, these event missions do not reward well. SCR, GCR and the newest gear/device, costume pieces need to be added to the reward tables to perk the interest of players participating in these missions again.
These are just my two pitiful pennies of opinions.
DCUO grants premium membership with a $5 purchase. Or they did when I spend my $5 on it. I'd say more like $10-$15 for premium, but with smaller benefits. One or two FF slots and zero barfy AT slots. Once you go FF, you don't really go back anyway. 100,000g cap would make the cap removal in the cash shop a waste of time. Maybe more like 1-5k. Even then, I doubt most people do high global trading and 5k would probably make the cap removal a waste of time. 1k would be just at the edge of being able to afford some of the most desirable items and might even push that cap purchase.
Hell, let Premium have all of the ATs. With that FF slot or two, they aren't going to bother much with ATs anymore. Well, at this point, none of the other stuff really matters. An FF slot for $10 is pretty awesome. Of course, it can only be done once.
Gold membership is already made practically worthless by LTS. You don't need to make LTS more appealing than "Cryptic now pays me $5 a month to play this game". Letting LTS open lockboxes for free would be a huge dent into CO's profits and would completely screw up the game economy more than it already has been.
200 GCR + 200 drifter trash every month? Lolololol. Wow, that is completely broken. That drifter trash would also break the economy when everything gets dumped on the AH. Also, would hurt Cryptic's profits. GCR would essentially make the gear divide worse AND now you would have all sorts of P2W problems. Especially if the devs keep making more "challenging" content that requires it. No one is going to even start playing a game where all of these vets can basically sit around doing nothing to gear their toons in the BiS gear that CO has while everyone else has to grind through the nose for even starter 40 gear.
Everyone should have account bound currencies. Alt-itis should be encouraged among the entire populations. It's how you get people to keep playing instead of making them think CO is just another sleezy P2W Perfect World travesty. Frankly, a lot of those lts changes look like "making sure the game shuts down in less than 6 months."
Last I checked Kiga falls over and dies in seconds with more than 5 people. That is not an exaggeration. Pretty sure Flaming Monkey is equally pitiful. The problem with those events is the horrid 6 hour spawn timer.
DCUO grants premium membership with a $5 purchase. Or they did when I spend my $5 on it. I'd say more like $10-$15 for premium, but with smaller benefits. One or two FF slots and zero barfy AT slots. Once you go FF, you don't really go back anyway. 100,000g cap would make the cap removal in the cash shop a waste of time. Maybe more like 1-5k. Even then, I doubt most people do high global trading and 5k would probably make the cap removal a waste of time. 1k would be just at the edge of being able to afford some of the most desirable items and might even push that cap purchase. Well, I never liked the cap removal purchase option; it is a waste of time in my opinion. The devs should have given Silver players a nice cap upgrade of 100,000 in the first place. I think that would have prevented a lot of Silver resource debates and headaches.
Hell, let Premium have all of the ATs. With that FF slot or two, they aren't going to bother much with ATs anymore. Well, at this point, none of the other stuff really matters. An FF slot for $10 is pretty awesome. Of course, it can only be done once.
Gold membership is already made practically worthless by LTS. You don't need to make LTS more appealing than "Cryptic now pays me $5 a month to play this game". Letting LTS open lockboxes for free would be a huge dent into CO's profits and would completely screw up the game economy more than it already has been. Hmm... interesting point. Perhaps the devs should benchmark DCUO and scrap the LTS option. DCUO subscribers have access to all game content and episodes and they can unlock all of their lockboxes for free. In fact, there are several MMO's that do not have that Lifetime membership option and their subscribers have more access than CO's Gold and Lifetime players. Something to think about...
200 GCR + 200 drifter trash every month? Lolololol. Wow, that is completely broken. That drifter trash would also break the economy when everything gets dumped on the AH. Also, would hurt Cryptic's profits. GCR would essentially make the gear divide worse AND now you would have all sorts of P2W problems. Especially if the devs keep making more "challenging" content that requires it. No one is going to even start playing a game where all of these vets can basically sit around doing nothing to gear their toons in the BiS gear that CO has while everyone else has to grind through the nose for even starter 40 gear.
Everyone should have account bound currencies. Alt-itis should be encouraged among the entire populations. It's how you get people to keep playing instead of making them think CO is just another sleezy P2W Perfect World travesty. Frankly, a lot of those lts changes look like "making sure the game shuts down in less than 6 months." Well, my suggestions are not perfect; they are only suggestions. Ah, well, I tried (shrug). I agree with the encouraging of alt-itis, and until we have more access to more support, control, defense and tank powers, then I think that this game will become another MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) in my opinon.
Last I checked Kiga falls over and dies in seconds with more than 5 people. That is not an exaggeration. Pretty sure Flaming Monkey is equally pitiful. The problem with those events is the horrid 6 hour spawn timer. Hmm.. I can only assume that those 5 people were in some of the best gear possible with some of the best mods available at level 40. I have tried Qwijibo when he spawned with a team of 5 (lvs 38-40) and the team became big monkey fodder ad nauseum. Not only is the respawn time terrible, but the reward drops are not great, either. This is why I suggested a queue for these events via Socrates; at least the devs can make the spawn timer more reasonable and players can queue in from a more convienent location. Its not the greatest idea but since those zone events are not epic (yet) then at least players can queue in with others close to their level.
I think a big help to get new players to stay is to make Archetypes NOT worthless for lategame content.
Oh like the END/EGO/REC Tempest AT I completed TA with which has no CON?
Without dying several times? Or did you have a good team with you?
Now try soloing Adventure Packs on Elite challenge level like many CON-stacked heroes can. Or fight some Onslaught Villains without being one-shot. Or Gravitar alert without needing multiple revives.
And this is.. Neccesary for endgame how?
I do much more damage than anyone wasting stat points on CON will. I'm just as powerful without CON overall that way.
Who cares if i have to manage my health smarter? Who cares if I have to block sometimes?
Now i'm in full support of bluhman's suggestion for nerfing CON, (and raising base HP some) but that does NOT make you correct even the way things are in the game right now.
I'm sorry you feel that every hero in the game needs to be an unkillable tank. that's not everyone's playstyle.
If laying face down on the pavement during a large portion of the fight is your ideal way of playing, go for it, but many new players are turned off by this. Playing as an AT in this game is much harder than playing as a FF, especially since ATs cannot pick their superstats and most of them do not have that sweet sweet CON, so having new f2p players forced to play the game on hard mode will push many away.
I do have a few level 40 builds that do not use CON at all, but unfortunately, there is still some late-game content that they should stay away from (PVP, Rampages, Elite Challenges, Onslaught) because they can die instantly to unpredictable attacks and become a liability for the team in rampages.
I've made them because I like a challenge, but that's the problem, it should NOT be a challenge to make a viable hero without CON.
Nothing in this game should be like DCUO. When you start abandoning your existing game setup in order to copy someone else's, that' when your game goes downhill fast - as people begin to ask, "If that other game is so wonderful, why play this one?"
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Comments
You stated theme park and there are only two types of MMOs; theme park and sandbox, and if you are denouncing a theme park that leaves one option. Saying a sandpark is a third option as it's a bit of a misnomer, as that's just a theme park with small sandbox type elements in it done very poorly. For instance, if a theme park tries to adopt a decent crafting system but in order for a sandbox style crafting system to work, elements have to actually degrade but not only that they do not have to replace elements at intervals, but they can't be lossed either so it's a dead system. (why the main reason that crafting was a big bust here in Champions and that in most other MMOs the only crafting system that ever seems to work is the potion system since those elements need to be replaced, or would if they wouldn't stop making everything super easy).
As far as EVE and sub numbers, I have no idea. If they are going down they are going down. Nothing lasts forever. But I do know WoW stopped releasing their's because they've lost over 6 million subs.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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To some people, if a change wasn't the one they wanted, then it was a mistake.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/perfect-ten-the-top-10-healthiest-live-mmos/
good news for AI, MH is on it.
BAD news- Runescape the game with poor graphics, click to move and grind all your skills and stats is higher on the list.
the comments under it are even worse, especially Te5la's one.
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There's definitely a difference between personal tastes and popular.
Personally, I hate GW2 and someone would have to pay me to play it again anymore. Same with ArcheAge, The Ultimate Fake Free-to-Play.
What makes a game popular seems to be based on 3 factors : investment, rewards and communication.
I do play a couple of the other games on that list quite a bit and quite enjoy them, but as people have been saying for a while, CO has something the "most popular games" lack, and that's the reason I came back to it, meager population be damned.
Lol. OK. You want to keep the horse blinders on, be my guest. Considering I just outlined how to potentially move away from theme park while not going full blown sandbox, there appears to be other options that could work.
It should be telling that after spending a year on each expansion that even the juggernaut that is WoW can't keep up with content demands for its game. Hardcore players blow through that stuff in a day or two and casual players are done in a month or two. That's insane. If a company with those resources can't keep up, something as small as, well, everyone else is just making things impossible for themselves when they could be exploring other options. Why you would say Cryptic should pigeonhole themselves instead of taking ideas from the plethora of other games types is baffling.
I would take what massively says with a mountain of salt considering they have zero integrity or ability to spend all of five minutes fact checking stuff they want to pass off as news. Sadly, other MMO "news" sites are just as bad.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
*shakes head and sighs* You are either in a theme park or a sandbox. Since a theme park is a generalization of visiting static locals that never change and always offer the same events and quests then that is exactly what the majority of MMOs on the market are now.
You call it blinders but you have not once outlined anything that demonstrates a difference. MOBA's are not MMOs it's a completely different genre, an arena game that isn't even massive on scale, since matches are between two teams of five people each, for a total of 10 players. What you are trying to do is reinvent the wheel, but the wheel isn't going to change just because you don't like the fact that you have theme park and sandbox, and rarely do the two mesh well together. Trying to take sandbox elements and inject them into a theme park doesn't work well unless you account for the elements that work for a sandbox, and trying to inject a theme park into a sandbox MMO doesn't work well because the sandbox rarely accounts for the fact that theme parks are often safer and softer to their players than sandbox games.
An example, a sandbox game usually has harsh death, such as a loss of items and possibly even funds. Theme parks typically stay away from that, usually implementing a soft penalty system that is barely even felt most of the time. And just like my crafting analogy, a sandbox based crafting system doesn't work unless items are continuously in flux and require replacement, thus driving an economy. This is why crafting systems in theme park MMOs fail hardcore.
Now, while you may pretend their are other types, it all boils down to Theme Park or Sandbox. One or the other may attempt to dabble in effects of the other, but in the end such things rarely work because the rules required for that particular rule set doesn't work in the rule sets often tailored for the other.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Is that in the MMO developer's Bible? Thou shall not be creative?
There are already games that exist and don't fit into any one category. I wouldn't consider ArcheAge to be a theme park or a sandbox. It takes bits and pieces from various game types. AA heavily uses typical mechanics found in casual mobile games. Does that make AA a mobile game?
If all of the zones in CO used the scary monster scaling and all zones could be accessed from level 1, it couldn't really be called a theme park anymore. But it wouldn't be a sandbox either.
My comment about being a MOBA was flippant. I thought the time machine part made that clear. RS3, PoE, and D3 aren't MOBAs.
Video games have been around since the 1950s. Coming up with a totally original idea at this point is bordering on impossible. My suggestions were specifically chosen because I believe they could be enhancements to content and mechanics that already exist in CO. There is nothing about completely gutting the entire game and turning into something totally different. The games I chose were because they have similarities to CO. There's not really a huge difference between an oARPG and a MMOARPG. The biggest odd-ball is the SNES game which is why I only talked about trinity and party composition.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
If I make an MMO based on Lord of the Rings, and I make an MMO called "Land of Elves", which one do you think will get more players in the first month? The answer is obvious, and doesn't change even if Land of Elves is a much better game than the lord of the rings one. More players equals more money equals more development. In the long run, the LotR mmo is more likely to be successful, even if it is the worse game of the two.
Having people play your game just because it's associated with a name they recognize is kind of a big deal. Marvel/DC have a much, much bigger following than City of Heroes or the Champions IP.
People can never find out that your game is better if they never play it because they're already playing another game.
Even if you show someone a hundred advertisements for "Champions Online", it's not guaranteed to get them to stop playing Marvel game or DC game. In fact it's likely that the Gucci effect will come into play.. you know, how people will look at anything without a well known brand name on it as an inferior product by virtue of the name? Comic Book nerds are known to have brand loyalty, and gamers are notorious for it. Now combine the two.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If there's a common thread then the game just needs to make that aspect more obvious or accessible.
Saw an ad for CO on Facebook one day, back before FFA, and gave it a shot on a free weekend. Unfortunately, I was conditioned by the old Champs character-creation method, and had a hard time figuring out how to make it work here; there were no ATs to give examples, and that was back when "half-graphics" was ON by default, so between the crappy visuals (that I could have fixed, had I but known) and the unfamiliarity with how to make a toon, I gave up on it. Fast-forward to some time later, and I saw a blurb for FFA, and figured as long as it was free, I'd give it another shot. Didn't take long after that before I wanted a sub; actually managed to eke one out for a few months, got my taste of the Gold life, and kept working to get back to that despite personal financial issues. (That's why I don't regret going LTS for a moment, even at full price - I never have to worry about losing my Gold status again!)
What's kept me playing is the fact that I can be endlessly creative. In WoW, as an example, your creativity is constrained by certain classes only being open to certain races, and your starting stats being predetermined no matter what you'd like to play. Here, even if I'm using an AT I get some choices about which stats I want to emphasize starting pretty early on, and when I get an item that grants me boosts I want I don't have to abandon the costume I spent so much time working on (some of the WoW items can get pretty freaking ugly!). Do I feel like playing a half-elven mystical warrior clad in leather? CO will let me do that, especially with Freeform (take some Single Blade powers, some magical powers, maybe something with a bow just to round it out, and make the costume using pieces with the Leather texture in brown). Tech genius? I've got three, each distinct from the others. Good old-fashioned spandex-clad punchmaster? Let me introduce you to Hypernova, Captain Punchfist, and Strongarm. And so forth. (Okay, Strongarm isn't really spandex as such - he wears jeans, a trench coat, and a T-shirt with his logo on it - but close enough.) Boys, girls, both, neither - doesn't matter, the Character Creator will accommodate me. Add in a Foundry, and I'd never log out.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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What I find interesting is that the land rush for 1st/3rd person MOBA shooters (Overwatch, Battleborn, Battlecry, Paragon, LawBreakers) are all new IPs.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
So to sum up:
- Tailor
- Fun powers
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
those are some of the things I can think of off the top of my head that have kept my playing CO
I feel like more people would be willing to put money into the game if they were actually playing it. Meaning, if they could actually just play FreeForm characters. Active players buy costume sets. active players buy keys. Active players keep the game going. But if you have this massive paywall between being active and just not bothering with the game, that's just money not going into the game. That's just less active players. The monthly subscription isn't viable to those of us who are adults with busy lives. Sure, we might be able to afford it, but we'd hardly be getting our money's worth. Some retired people and middle class people might be fine with blowing away 15 dollars a month like it's nothing, but budget gamers just don't have that luxury. Maybe this game is meant for "whale" players though, I could be wrong. i know a ton of people here get snooty when people talk about the ridiculous FreeForm slot price and how at this point in time Lifetime isn't worth 300 dollars anymore, but surely you can see where we're coming from.
200$ during an LTS sale gets you somewhere around 14 freeform slots, which would cost you 700$ buying them seperately (to say nothing of the added value of everything else you get as well), and every time you level a character to 40, you get a new slot so you essentially never have to buy character slots again...how much more reasonable do you want?
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="kemmicals">A community that could actually agree on something for once.</blockquote>Sooo a hivemind?
Edit: What's wrong with quotes now?
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(The Tailor is already amazing for this, and freeform character building is reasonably awesome. We need gameplay which embraces this kind of sandbox to go with it).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Random Non-linear Maps (World exploration players, minimal effort)
More Nemesis missions/plotlines/options (world exploration, story-focused, builders)
All of which I'm sure I've mentioned before.
Comic series! (background/story)
And if I was being paid to develop content, I'm sure I could churn out another dozen ideas within an hour which would at least be worth thinking about.
Bonus thoughts:
SG Hideouts (most player types, but especially builders): Have them variously upgradeable (with missions that go toward acquiring upgrades without being too time intensive) in a non-linear way (and swappable by doing the alternate missions) - all of which builds towards various kinds of challenges for which the upgrades are relevant. Heck, do it for regular hideouts - SG hideouts would encourage cryptic to put insane grind on it, and that's not the point. The point is to be able to do the final content play modes, with the missions to acquire components for story/flavor, not grind.
Nemesis team-up (story and development players). No, not Nemcon. Six of your nemeses team up to get you. (Yes, 6. As in Sinister Six from Spider-Man).
Customizable sidekicks (Build, Story, Develop). Design an outfit and choose a powerset for your sidekick. Could use the nemesis interface. Have the customizable sidekick be a device you buy with zen. (I'd say 1500 zen, but the price of the current loyal sidekick would - and should - come down).
Started playing, liked it, kept playing.
NOT- playing for Super hero genre.
Playing because I like the game play.
sounds like the Foundry
Vehicle chop shop-
not exactly the tailor.
has a variety of body parts,chassis, seats, storage, tubes, lifters. That people can make or buy to make up their vehicle
Go collect the bits you need to make the parts.
Design weapons for it- area, targets, maintain, charge etc, type of damage. with a limit on total, so one goes up another can't be past a certain level.
use your crafting to make up the paint and ornaments for it.
decide on the stats for it. higher stats need more hard to get items.
Save your design.
either have your design as free for anyone to use- token Q charge for them using your design.
Unique- you pay to keep it unique.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
*shudder* not with the description of what went into the Bait cookies.
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A common problem I see while leveling up a freeform character are solo ATs struggling to handle level 30+ missions. I frequently see these players requesting help in Zone chat because their ATs cannot survive even on Normal difficulty. This is because most ATs do not have Constitution as a superstat and many new players do not know that stacking Constitution is a REQUIREMENT, not an OPTION, even if it is not one of their Superstats.
At this point they tend to give up because they cannot complete missions or become annoyed that they cannot build the hero they want to build. It's stack CON or stop playing. I have a few friends who were in this boat and have stopped playing altogether.
That's why I think changing the free-to-play Archetypes to be more survivable and less worthless would encourage new players to stay.
https://www.instagram.com/championsonline
And whenever I post a pic using a lot of hashtags, hudreds of people see it on any of the pages for those tags. So slowly but surely I'm getting the word out.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It was always a shame that the creativity and flexibility of the build system was something the vast majority of players never really got to explore.
Also sidesteps the issue of some of the ATs being rather sub-par.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Sort of off target... How about going thru the "Innate Talents" and making a full mix of bonuses, instead of the duplicated/nearly duplicated mess that is there now. If you look at the point system used to keep these equal the formula is simple enough to make this an easy "mini Free Form".
Formula is: If (Stat -5)>5 then (5+(Stat-10*2)=Value repeat for each Stat in Innate Talent
If (Stat -5)<=5 then (Stat)=Value repeat for each Stat in Innate Talent
If you apply this simple formula to any of the current Innate Talents they All come out to 18 points.
So why not let the (Free Form only?) players have this option, instead of the "Pick one that is only sort of what you want" ?
Not anymore
Gold since Christmas 2015
Now try soloing Adventure Packs on Elite challenge level like many CON-stacked heroes can. Or fight some Onslaught Villains without being one-shot. Or Gravitar alert without needing multiple revives.
The best answer to me seems to be to tear the script up.
PvP doesn't work anymore because that's been worked out and anyone who doesn't know the rules will be wiped out in short order. The only way to prevent that happening is to reduce the number of rules and keep changing the roles and settings available to the players.
Onslaught brought an amazing number of people back to the game when it was launched, but they all went away because of the grind and the one-sided gameplay. There's clearly a lot of interest in unscripted player-vs-villain content - that just needs to be instanced in a number of settings and packaged up like alerts.... There's so many great villians, settings and maps already in game that could be re-used; instead of a few weeks' worth of lair they could use the time to create the lvl40 end game that people have been after for so long.
I agree with people who suggested more advertising and changes to FTP/Gold/Lifetime benefits. There are a lot of potential players out there, and even a few website ads about this game will perk SOMEONE's interest. I also think that the membership benefits of this game are a bit outdated and confining. The one membership level that is missing is Premium (or Freemium as it is better known for). For example: if a Silver Member has spent a certain amount of Zen (say, 3000) then that player will be a Premium Member with more in game benefits such as: 3 more character slots and 1 Free Form slot. The resource pool will be increased to 100,000. Access to 3 more archetypes, 2 gold member hideouts, and 6 gold member costume sets will be granted. Of course, offering benefits like these may keep players at the premium level, but they will work to get there and actually enjoy more of the game, which means they will play more and get more of their friends to play. From my experience, Premium players will shop from the game store as much or even more than free players.
The Lifetime Membership needs to be the pinnacle of all memberships, instead of a couple of steps above Gold. Lifetime members should have access to every costume set, travel powers and auras that are available in the Zen store. No Lifetime member should need cosmic keys to open any lockbox. Every hideout should be available to Lifetime members. All currencies that Lifetime members own should be account bound, not character bound. The monthly zen stipend for Lifetime members should be 800 zen, as well as 200 Drifter Salvage and 200 Gold Champion Recognition. Lifetime members should receive these permanent teleport devices for each toon: teleport to Ren Center, team teleport and teleport to teammate as well as permanent recovery 4 packs for each toon. It is a lot to ask for, but in my opinion, a Lifetime membership is a luxurious privelege, and the membership needs to reflect that.
Comic and Adventure Pack missions need better rewards and have those rewards make sense. For example, since the devs want to promote teaming, 25 SCR and 25 GCR should be rewarded in Comic and Adventure packs if players do those missions with a full team of 5. Since those missions can only be played 4 times a day, players will earn 100 SCR and 100 GCR each day for playing them. I think more players will revisit Comic and Adventure packs if this was offered. Loot drops should be in sync with the content, such as Emily Lovett permanent sidekick as a loot drop in Aftershock and Vibora Bay Apocolypse. It would be nice if the devs revisited the Comic/Adventure packs and tell more of their stories....
Socrates should be in every zone in the game and offer NPC missions that reflect the zone and the level of the character. In addition to the repeatable missions from different zones, Socrates should allow players to queue for event zone missions like Qwijibo and Kigilitik. It is hard to get other players to do these missions because a large amount of players are needed and players have to be in a specific area to get the event to spawn. Also, these event missions do not reward well. SCR, GCR and the newest gear/device, costume pieces need to be added to the reward tables to perk the interest of players participating in these missions again.
These are just my two pitiful pennies of opinions.
Hell, let Premium have all of the ATs. With that FF slot or two, they aren't going to bother much with ATs anymore. Well, at this point, none of the other stuff really matters. An FF slot for $10 is pretty awesome. Of course, it can only be done once.
Gold membership is already made practically worthless by LTS. You don't need to make LTS more appealing than "Cryptic now pays me $5 a month to play this game". Letting LTS open lockboxes for free would be a huge dent into CO's profits and would completely screw up the game economy more than it already has been.
200 GCR + 200 drifter trash every month? Lolololol. Wow, that is completely broken. That drifter trash would also break the economy when everything gets dumped on the AH. Also, would hurt Cryptic's profits. GCR would essentially make the gear divide worse AND now you would have all sorts of P2W problems. Especially if the devs keep making more "challenging" content that requires it. No one is going to even start playing a game where all of these vets can basically sit around doing nothing to gear their toons in the BiS gear that CO has while everyone else has to grind through the nose for even starter 40 gear.
Everyone should have account bound currencies. Alt-itis should be encouraged among the entire populations. It's how you get people to keep playing instead of making them think CO is just another sleezy P2W Perfect World travesty. Frankly, a lot of those lts changes look like "making sure the game shuts down in less than 6 months."
Last I checked Kiga falls over and dies in seconds with more than 5 people. That is not an exaggeration. Pretty sure Flaming Monkey is equally pitiful. The problem with those events is the horrid 6 hour spawn timer.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I do have a few level 40 builds that do not use CON at all, but unfortunately, there is still some late-game content that they should stay away from (PVP, Rampages, Elite Challenges, Onslaught) because they can die instantly to unpredictable attacks and become a liability for the team in rampages.
I've made them because I like a challenge, but that's the problem, it should NOT be a challenge to make a viable hero without CON.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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