to give an idea of the difference in money between STO & CO. Her people complain about paying more than $5 for a costume. STO they pay $20 or $30 for 1 ship. Then more for outfitting the interior plus character costumes.
here's the 2 zen exchanges. And this is the zen which makes it to the exchange.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
Slight difference in amounts and thats just the first four.
and while getting the pictures I see the advertisement for WOW's next expansion, due out by September next year and already being advertised.
A ship in STO is not comparable to a costume. When you are in space, your ship IS your character. So your ship effects your stats and powers. The closest comparison in Champs are vehicles, but in STO your ship purchase is account wide, while your vehicle purchase in Champs is for a single character.
Vehicles are bound to your account not bound to your characters, you can trade them freely between characters using your hideout bank... I know we like to spit hairs by nitpicking over tiny things, but I feel that is acutally quite an important distinction.
It may be easier to access all of your ships on all of your characters on STO, but you can still swap your vehicles around on champs.(I'm pretty sure the only vehicles in CO that are BOP are the freebies they've handed out over the years)
Vehicles are bound to your account not bound to your characters, you can trade them freely between characters using your hideout bank... I know we like to spit hairs by nitpicking over tiny things, but I feel that is acutally quite an important distinction.
It may be easier to access all of your ships on all of your characters on STO, but you can still swap your vehicles around on champs.(I'm pretty sure the only vehicles in CO that are BOP are the freebies they've handed out over the years)
I was actually not aware of that
Fortunately, I have only bought 1 vehicle so far. Anyway, now I have a question: being familiar with both games, why did you choose to compare a costume in Champs to a ship in STO rather than making the vehicle comparison, which makes much more sense? It sounds like you were just going for shock value between 2 different prices rather than comparing 2 things that actually made sense to compare.
just using what was available and what people complain about the price of. Vehicles in CO are not the same as ships in STO or mounts in NW.
CO is the only game of the three which doesn't seem to have stuff useful ingame.
NW has mounts and companions ad R&d packs
STO has ships and officers and DOffs and R&D packs
CO has costumes and unnecessary vehicles and hugely overpriced catalysts.
also check the zen on those pictures a which refuse to show.I'll try again to get them to cooperate
CO $25 worth
STO $1500 worth
That's after people have been buying other stuff from the well stocked store.
I do think that CO is much much less grindy in nature than NW though. it's not really hard to get BiS equipment in here compared to the hundreds of dollars you should spend in NW to get anywhere close to it. ( I blame artifacts and artifact equipment for that)
I do think that CO is much much less grindy in nature than NW though. it's not really hard to get BiS equipment in here compared to the hundreds of dollars you should spend in NW to get anywhere close to it. ( I blame artifacts and artifact equipment for that)
Justice + Onslaught is grindy enough as is. One thing that does help CO in this is the amount of equipment slots (6 total) vs however many NW has reached by now.
If Questionite were as easy to get as Dilithium, you might see more comparable numbers in the market. Even as a Filthy Casual, I'm currently sitting on about 150k Dil on my main account, mostly because I'm trying to get enough Dil to buy enough Zen to get an Upgrade Token for the Excelsior refit I picked up in the last giveaway. (I missed out on the day when they gave the Upgrade Token, so now USS Independence is stuck at T5 rather than T5-U, and that toon has gone on to command the T6 Nandi-class USS Midway instead. I like the classic lines of the Excelsior better, but Adm. Tarvek needs a better level of ship than T5.) That's what I've saved up over the past few months on four toons.
Meanwhile, after collecting Q for about a year or so on thirty-some toons, I've got almost 100k Q on my main account...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
STO
DOFF missions(crafting)
admiralty(not doff missions, really)
daily foundry mission
special missions
can't remember if you get bonus for your skirmish daily
reputation upgrading(hitting Rank 5 on rep got me 30k Dil per rep, Toon hit all reps except newest one)
CO
alert daily
comic packs
Playstyle helps, someone uses the first page of his characters for alert farming. so he would have a lot more.
I would have a lot more in CO if I farmed alerts on more characters except that's boring.
ON the other hand, NW and STO both have end game grind. STO's isn't actually too boring.
CO has.. none but we have Heroic, Legion, Rampage, Onslaught, Vigilante to collect
Meanwhile, after collecting Q for about a year or so on thirty-some toons, I've got almost 100k Q on my main account...
That seems very low.
Could just be differences in playstyle though.
Like I said, I'm a Filthy Casual - I don't farm. (If I farmed Dil, I'd have a whole lot more - there's a daily with the Vlugta Asteroid Field, and another with my fleet's Dil Mine, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of.) So the Q I get is from the occasional Nemesis Alert, and the other things that are both fun and Q-rewarding (taking Pyretta Blaze into the current Nighthawk daily, for instance - it's fun helping take down Stone without using a vehicle, and I get 2000 Q at the same time).
Then again, the Dil I get is from DOff missions (and I don't usually max those out, but a Klingon can really rake it in between Marauding missions and turning over contraband from those missions for 2000 Dil every four hours), Admiralty, and the fact that most storyline missions award Dil as well...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
To be clear, I do not consider being casual to be filthy (or any other pejorative). If you are having fun you are doing it right as far as I am concerned. For some that will mean hardcore raiding/farming/PvP, for others it will mean RP, exploring the scenery, etc.
I used to play Nemcon a lot. Perhaps I developed an unrealistic view of how quickly Q could accumulate from speed running that lair (something I did for fun even before they added Q to Nemcon).
Bump, maybe this will be the new home for hero MMO folks?
Not bad, think these folks are still in the early alpha stages iirc? Looks promising for pre-alpha. Official site if anyone is interested. http://valiance.shogn.net/
These guys/gals said there will be more than 80 power-sets, prolly overlapping and customizable minions, meaning the minions will be just as customizable as the hero. That means my dream of creating characters on all fours will come true, muahahaha.
Personally, I'm just going to wait for the CoH revival/COT(still gonna play CO/transfer ideas between CoH and CO). VO is just looking worse and worse..shoulda' said yes when they were offered the chance to use the CoH IP/textures when CoH revives..oh well, they'll still do great, just..not for me.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Bump, maybe this will be the new home for hero MMO folks?
Not bad, think these folks are still in the early alpha stages iirc? Looks promising for pre-alpha. Official site if anyone is interested. http://valiance.shogn.net/
These guys/gals said there will be more than 80 power-sets, prolly overlapping and customizable minions, meaning the minions will be just as customizable as the hero. That means my dream of creating characters on all fours will come true, muahahaha.
Personally, I'm just going to wait for the CoH revival/COT(still gonna play CO/transfer ideas between CoH and CO). VO is just looking worse and worse..shoulda' said yes when they were offered the chance to use the CoH IP/textures when CoH revives..oh well, they'll still do great, just..not for me.
You keep waiting for that to happen, might happen sometime after Ancient Rome conquers the world.
You think im going to give up on CoH? Nah . But thanks, and as stated in my last post im still gonna support CO . Geez, it's like I struck a nerve or something :P. Are you supporting VO? If not, why the hostility?(though, I honestly doubt VO has hostility towards the CoH Legacy folks/those getting it ). Would be interesting to see what happens if Rome rises again though! .
But seriously: This hostility towards CoH is both unnecessary, and horribly mis-represents the actual fine folk in CO proper.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
City of Titans is further along, and it also will likely be vaporware.
KIckstarter and similarly-funded games generally are not delivered, and that is for games that meet initial funding goals. Article with spreadsheet available.
You keep waiting for that to happen, might happen sometime after Ancient Rome conquers the world.
You think im going to give up on CoH? Nah . But thanks, and as stated in my last post im still gonna support CO . Geez, it's like I struck a nerve or something :P. Are you supporting VO? If not, why the hostility?(though, I honestly doubt VO has hostility towards the CoH Legacy folks/those getting it ). Would be interesting to see what happens if Rome rises again though! .
But seriously: This hostility towards CoH is both unnecessary, and horribly mis-represents the actual fine folk in CO proper.
Anything that's being touted as a "spiritual successor" to CoH I'll have a negative disposition for. It's not about being bitter, it's about them wanting to make a game like a game that I found boring. It doesn't matter to me how pretty the pictures are. A game can have the sharpest, most advanced graphics that'll rival anything to come in the next few decades, and impressive as that might be, if they're attached to a game I find boring, I'm not going to play it. A game has to have exciting gameplay to hook me. It can literally have 16 bit graphics (which I'm guessing by your standards would "suck") and still be worth more my time playing it than playing a boring game that's pretty. Have you played Rogue Legacy or FTL or Papers, Please? Amazing games, and their graphics are hardly what you'd call sophisticated.
Besides, what I look for in a game, especially in 3D games, is stylization over rendering quality. Generically rendered games tend to bore me. I think WoW had great stylization. Wildstar's style is second to none in my opinion. Champions is okay, I wish it was more cel shaded though (no, turning on comic outlines doesn't make it cel shaded), but at least it's not a generic, no-style render. And that's what I'm seeing from Valiance.
So yeah, so far Valiance hasn't impressed me.
Regarding CoT, it's had mostly lore updates but there have been actual development updates, so it's chugging along, but I doubt it'll make it. I don't have a problem with crowd-funded games, but these guys only funded their equipment and software licenses. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody's being paid to work on it. Volunteers do it in their free time. I can't imagine the game ever reaching completion in the state that they'd want it to be.
You keep waiting for that to happen, might happen sometime after Ancient Rome conquers the world.
You think im going to give up on CoH? Nah . But thanks, and as stated in my last post im still gonna support CO . Geez, it's like I struck a nerve or something :P. Are you supporting VO? If not, why the hostility?(though, I honestly doubt VO has hostility towards the CoH Legacy folks/those getting it ). Would be interesting to see what happens if Rome rises again though! .
But seriously: This hostility towards CoH is both unnecessary, and horribly mis-represents the actual fine folk in CO proper.
Or maybe you are just too sensitive.
True true..and if it seems I am, I do apologize..I am just very adament for my game, as I am sure y'all are for CO , and, while VO will launch(at this point it seems their on the path to getting it to launch ) I'm not looking forward to it, honestly. :l
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
What's shocking about that? Maybe so far they just haven't liked what they've seen? I know CoH people that never touched Champions, even after CoH died, just because they didn't like how it looks.
What's shocking about that? Maybe so far they just haven't liked what they've seen? I know CoH people that never touched Champions, even after CoH died, just because they didn't like how it looks.
I don't like how it looks, and I am very vocal about it as you all may know, but I have a lifetime sub, lol. Those people are what I would like to call...
1) Liars
2) Haters
3) Fanboys
4) All of the above
If folks like super hero MMOs, notably one from Crypic, they must have at least tried CO, due to curiosity.
I know some CoH vets who wouldn't touch CO with a 10-foot pole because Cryptic started Marvel Universe Online in secret so soon after CoH launched. You have to admit running off to do a second superhero MMO while their first one was just taking off was a hideous look. And of course, in true Cryptic fashion, CoH development slowed while "Fight Club" was siphoning off resources, until NCSoft stepped in and forced the Cryptic/NCSoft NorCal divorce. It took NCNC/Paragon Studios some time to clean up old messes before they could start on their own plans, too. That all left a bad taste in many CoH players' mouths, and some never forgave Cryptic for it. I'll admit that I was in no hurry to investigate CO until a friend of mine encouraged me to check it out.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't VO using fixed character models, instead of sliders. I feel like all character images I've seen look like just a few types with different hair/clothing/faces--imilar to DCUO, though with different artwork.
If folks like super hero MMOs, notably one from Crypic, they must have at least tried CO, due to curiosity.
A bold, but unfounded, assumption. I had talks with people who did reject CO based only on its look. Screenshots and YT videos were enough.
The same people tried DCUO.
And it wasn't anything dismissive or negative. Just a "the game doesn't look like it's for me" kind of statement.
And then you have people who are used to older style slower MMOs and games like CO or DCUO feel too hectic for them.
By this logic the Iron Cross and Sturmovik games should have the same playerbase because they're both WW II games and have warbirds in them.
There's no thing like unified superhero genre. You may like the nineties or movies, and dislike anything silver age. Or vice versa. Some people will like all things superheroic, some will stick to their prefered niche.
The way the game is played also matters.
Champions Online is made by Cryptic the guys that INVENTED the Super Hero MMO. Thats all you need to know peoples. If you play any other Super Hero MMO your playing a cheap copy.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Cryptic just made an MMO. They hardly have any exclusive rights to this genre.
Technically if you touch anything superhero what's not from DC it's a cheap copy.
By this logic CO should be called cheap copy of CoH, srsly.
OI genius I said SUPER HERO MMO not MMO ( holy crap man I played Ultima Online and EverQuest long before CoH) . Also Champions PnP inspired CoH , Cryptic buy Champions IP make CO after Marvel game falls through. CO is pretty much CoH2. When a dev makes a copy of a game they made previous its called a sequel or if they don't own the IP "spiritual successor" U_U
Sometimes I just have to frown at you like this -_-
Also Takara Tomy 'Formers better than all 'Merican versions. Just had to shove that in there ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I know some CoH vets who wouldn't touch CO with a 10-foot pole because Cryptic started Marvel Universe Online in secret so soon after CoH launched. You have to admit running off to do a second superhero MMO while their first one was just taking off was a hideous look. And of course, in true Cryptic fashion, CoH development slowed while "Fight Club" was siphoning off resources, until NCSoft stepped in and forced the Cryptic/NCSoft NorCal divorce. It took NCNC/Paragon Studios some time to clean up old messes before they could start on their own plans, too. That all left a bad taste in many CoH players' mouths, and some never forgave Cryptic for it. I'll admit that I was in no hurry to investigate CO until a friend of mine encouraged me to check it out.
A few years back, while explaining the "FC" prefix, Tumerboy spilled the beans on what was going on there. There have been a couple of forum revisions since, making the original post basically nearly impossible to search, but what it boiled down to was that NCSoft had already begun planning their own in-house production studio, Paragon, to take over CoH production from Cryptic. The Cryptic folks were training their replacements, and therefore began casting about for a new project to sustain the studio when the inevitable happened. They were contacted by Marvel, who wanted preliminary work to begin right away, so the Cryptic programmers started working on "Fight Club" in their spare time (so-called because they didn't dare speak openly about what they were doing, or the firings would have commenced immediately rather than in a few months - and what's the first rule of Fight Club?).
CoH development slowed not because "resources were being siphoned off", but because the new devs were being trained by the old devs. The new guys always take some time to bring up to speed, you know - unless, like Kaiserin, they've been doing it on their own for a while first.
Then of course Marvel pulled out, leaving Cryptic hanging. Fortunately, the Champions IP was available, as Hero Games was having liquidity issues. (This part has never been stated openly, but I think they may have purchased the entire IP outright, then licensed the PnP rights back to Hero, in order to make sure that this time nobody could take the game away from them.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
If you want to play lesser games all the power to ya.
"Lesser" is a very relative term.
For you and me CO works (I swear, I could never get past CoH pace of gameplay, it simply wasn't made for my tastes). For other folks CO may be off-putting because of how it looks and how it plays, the same genre won't help them.
Can't say I have any belief in an idea of a thriving crowd-funded mmo, though. I'll believe when i'll see it. Working.
A NWN-style single player game with mmo option... maybe. MMO will hit a major roadblock as soon as costs of keeping it running will be a factor.
Also Takara Tomy 'Formers better than all 'Merican versions. Just had to shove that in there ^__^
TF Prime Takara line had poorly cut stickers replacing most of their paint, and horrible miss-colored warts for minicon ports. The little build-it-yourself minicon weapons were the only thing Takara had over Prime in the US.
Sorry, it's unrelated to the main topic, but I couldn't just leave that lying down.
Comments
here's the 2 zen exchanges. And this is the zen which makes it to the exchange.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
Slight difference in amounts and thats just the first four.
and while getting the pictures I see the advertisement for WOW's next expansion, due out by September next year and already being advertised.
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The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It may be easier to access all of your ships on all of your characters on STO, but you can still swap your vehicles around on champs.(I'm pretty sure the only vehicles in CO that are BOP are the freebies they've handed out over the years)
Fortunately, I have only bought 1 vehicle so far. Anyway, now I have a question: being familiar with both games, why did you choose to compare a costume in Champs to a ship in STO rather than making the vehicle comparison, which makes much more sense? It sounds like you were just going for shock value between 2 different prices rather than comparing 2 things that actually made sense to compare.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
CO is the only game of the three which doesn't seem to have stuff useful ingame.
NW has mounts and companions ad R&d packs
STO has ships and officers and DOffs and R&D packs
CO has costumes and unnecessary vehicles and hugely overpriced catalysts.
also check the zen on those pictures a which refuse to show.I'll try again to get them to cooperate
CO $25 worth
STO $1500 worth
That's after people have been buying other stuff from the well stocked store.
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Meanwhile, after collecting Q for about a year or so on thirty-some toons, I've got almost 100k Q on my main account...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Could just be differences in playstyle though.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
DOFF missions(crafting)
admiralty(not doff missions, really)
daily foundry mission
special missions
can't remember if you get bonus for your skirmish daily
reputation upgrading(hitting Rank 5 on rep got me 30k Dil per rep, Toon hit all reps except newest one)
CO
alert daily
comic packs
Playstyle helps, someone uses the first page of his characters for alert farming. so he would have a lot more.
I would have a lot more in CO if I farmed alerts on more characters except that's boring.
ON the other hand, NW and STO both have end game grind. STO's isn't actually too boring.
CO has.. none but we have Heroic, Legion, Rampage, Onslaught, Vigilante to collect
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Then again, the Dil I get is from DOff missions (and I don't usually max those out, but a Klingon can really rake it in between Marauding missions and turning over contraband from those missions for 2000 Dil every four hours), Admiralty, and the fact that most storyline missions award Dil as well...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I used to play Nemcon a lot. Perhaps I developed an unrealistic view of how quickly Q could accumulate from speed running that lair (something I did for fun even before they added Q to Nemcon).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
But I don't mind being called filthy.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
BS detected.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
42 40s, LTSer.
But seriously: This hostility towards CoH is both unnecessary, and horribly mis-represents the actual fine folk in CO proper.
42 40s, LTSer.
City of Titans is further along, and it also will likely be vaporware.
KIckstarter and similarly-funded games generally are not delivered, and that is for games that meet initial funding goals.
Article with spreadsheet available.
Just calling 'em like I see 'em.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Besides, what I look for in a game, especially in 3D games, is stylization over rendering quality. Generically rendered games tend to bore me. I think WoW had great stylization. Wildstar's style is second to none in my opinion. Champions is okay, I wish it was more cel shaded though (no, turning on comic outlines doesn't make it cel shaded), but at least it's not a generic, no-style render. And that's what I'm seeing from Valiance.
So yeah, so far Valiance hasn't impressed me.
Regarding CoT, it's had mostly lore updates but there have been actual development updates, so it's chugging along, but I doubt it'll make it. I don't have a problem with crowd-funded games, but these guys only funded their equipment and software licenses. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody's being paid to work on it. Volunteers do it in their free time. I can't imagine the game ever reaching completion in the state that they'd want it to be.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
42 40s, LTSer.
I doubt it's "not looking forward to it", more "believe it when I see it".
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I feel like all character images I've seen look like just a few types with different hair/clothing/faces--imilar to DCUO, though with different artwork.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
The same people tried DCUO.
And it wasn't anything dismissive or negative. Just a "the game doesn't look like it's for me" kind of statement.
And then you have people who are used to older style slower MMOs and games like CO or DCUO feel too hectic for them.
By this logic the Iron Cross and Sturmovik games should have the same playerbase because they're both WW II games and have warbirds in them.
There's no thing like unified superhero genre. You may like the nineties or movies, and dislike anything silver age. Or vice versa. Some people will like all things superheroic, some will stick to their prefered niche.
The way the game is played also matters.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Technically if you touch anything superhero what's not from DC it's a cheap copy.
By this logic CO should be called cheap copy of CoH, srsly.
Sometimes I just have to frown at you like this -_-
Also Takara Tomy 'Formers better than all 'Merican versions. Just had to shove that in there ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Cryptic doesn't own superhero MMO any more than creators of Ultima own fantasy MMO in any way, at best they may have honorary title of starting it.
They're just workers selling their product, more or less successful. There's no exclusive moral right to the genre.
CoH development slowed not because "resources were being siphoned off", but because the new devs were being trained by the old devs. The new guys always take some time to bring up to speed, you know - unless, like Kaiserin, they've been doing it on their own for a while first.
Then of course Marvel pulled out, leaving Cryptic hanging. Fortunately, the Champions IP was available, as Hero Games was having liquidity issues. (This part has never been stated openly, but I think they may have purchased the entire IP outright, then licensed the PnP rights back to Hero, in order to make sure that this time nobody could take the game away from them.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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If you want to play lesser games all the power to ya.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
For you and me CO works (I swear, I could never get past CoH pace of gameplay, it simply wasn't made for my tastes). For other folks CO may be off-putting because of how it looks and how it plays, the same genre won't help them.
Can't say I have any belief in an idea of a thriving crowd-funded mmo, though. I'll believe when i'll see it. Working.
A NWN-style single player game with mmo option... maybe. MMO will hit a major roadblock as soon as costs of keeping it running will be a factor.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Sorry, it's unrelated to the main topic, but I couldn't just leave that lying down.