What's wrong with it if you don't want to spend a ton of cash and you can get it in-game for a few G? They said it's mid-level rarity. Seems like that's around the level of Clockwork Tights. Those sell for 100g or less a pop. Why is that so devastating?
My only concerns: If they increase the rarity, they completely lose my support. The power disappearing after the lockbox has.
Right now, some guy at PWE is wringing his hands and looking forward to the Zen purchases and data from this next lockbox. He's licking his yellow teeth and the corner of his smile- because he did this before. He did this when entire costumes were one item in a lockbox. He did this when the drop rate of said costumes continued to drop.
this is the kind of thing that makes it sound like tantrums. If you want people to take you seriously, you should probably avoid this kind of stuff. Insulting people is not the best way to get their attention.
This one thing? Sure, it's no big deal. But just as I said when they released gender-specific costumes "If enough people throw money at it, they'll see it as a viable strategy for the future"... thank God we dodged that bullet (I think).
A more real-world example? Gyms used to offer monthly, even weekly membership fees. They instead decided to go with yearly fees, because they know most people will give up after a while. First it was tested, and when it was determined to be profitable, it because nearly the national standard for gyms.
Im capable of understanding real examples, so there's no need for analogies. Only thing analogies have ever done on these forums is spin off big "no, it's more like..." tangents.
Face it: Bad practices like this will continue if you reward it with your money. If you think 'it's just going to be this one time' or 'if the drop rate isn't bad it's no big deal' then you are fooling yourself.
I'm well aware of it. And you seem to be assuming that I'm going to spend money on this lockbox. I'm not even going to spend a single point of my stipend on it, not even for keys to trade for the big prizes.
And don't tell me I'm fooling myself. I've already stated plenty that if this is truly a mid-rarity item, then it's fine the way it is (pending actual testing of drop rate on PTS or live) but if they change that on the next lockbox, I'll be fully against it. I know the past, I know the history of this game, and the fact that I made that last stipulation is a direct result of thinking of the chances that history will repeat here.
If the power disappears after the lockbox (which seems unlikely with the regular occurrence of the Timewarp Lockbox and all that entails), then what are the players missing out on? This power isn't crucial to "winning the game" or anything close to it.
It's most certainly one of the most powerful abilities I've ever seen in this game. It's not essential to winning, but it clearly gives people who pay cash money a clear advantage over other players.
Essentially, you are paying to win.
And before you say that 'vehicles do the same thing', I'll actually tell you that vehicles are no different than the be-critters in that they do 'okay' for people rolling squishy AT's but don't hold a candle to an actual Freeform Build... and also, they're useless/unusable in the vast majority of the game.
Yeah I'm sure vehicles are so terrible that they became completely overused for some content and had to be nerfed multiple times. Maybe you formed your opinion of them when they first launched and you haven't bothered revisiting?
The only thing I'm not doing is throwing a tantrum over it right now.....
If it's not? Then whatevers, let's just play games.
I used to be positive about Champions Online. But they were going to charge us for Vibora Bay. And then they were going to sell lifetime subs and let the game crash and burn within a year under Atari. Then they took away old crafting models. Then we had nearly a full year of nothing but vehicles. Then we had no UNTIL Field reports. Then we had nothing but gamble boxes every 4 months. And then we had about six and a half months of ZERO contact from the new development team at Cryptic North without so much as a greeting. Then every patch broke the game. Then things started getting nerfed because a real solution required actual work. Then we had the prices of costumes DOUBLED at worst and and a dollar more at best (for the worst ones). And now we have them testing to see if we're stupid enough to gamble for powers.
This is the part where we see the exact same things but we just interpret them differently. You see it as evil men lurking in the shadows, wringing their hands and wondering how much money they can squeeze out of the players in... one of their lowest-earning games? Wouldn't you want to do evil, yellow-toothed money-grubbing schemes on a game that has a decent population so you can actually make some money from those schemes?
the way I see it, the game needs to pull in more money because, let's face it, Champions doesn't seem like it was ever printing money. They're looking for the thing that's going to increase revenue because the game needs it.
This is not a tantrum. I must completely be fair- I don't play this game. It does not offer me a challenge (and I suck at MMORPG's), and it does not offer anything new after one play-through. I use this game as roleplaying engine, and there's something on the way right now that's going to knock that out of the water (Hope you weren't too attached to the CoX players that came over here just for RP, because 'Soon' is gonna cripple that real quick).
I'm trying to see if I can roll my eyes any harder. I don't care where RPers go to RP. please don't follow up with this being the doom that will befall Champions. I've been hearing that since day -14.
What I am doing is giving you firm warning.
If this turns out to be 'not such a big deal', and it goes through- it will become a common practice. There's about two dozen other powers sitting in the files right now, just waiting to have a drop rate slapped onto them. It should not be a big deal. It should be a disaster. It should be a PR nightmare. It should make Cryptic burn the midnight oil trying to find some way to do damage control.
"Sit back and wait" has given us nothing. But, to be honest? "Giving feedback" hasn't either. Whoever's in charge seems to be content to do whatever the hell they want to make a quick buck and give us all the finger.
This won't kill the game. You know why? Champions Online is dying already. It's not going to make a comeback unless someone else takes control. That's the hard, honest, truth. It will not get any better. We'll get 'content' that is 5 minutes of gameplay and the fanboys will gobble that up like it's lottery gold.
Brought your crystal ball with you, huh?
And I've seen feedback work plenty of times. You're using hyperbole again.
Meanwhile- TSW is cranking out content that offers HOURS of stuff to do and engaging, well-written stories. GW2 is releasing a proper expansion. And there are two (If one wasn't just a scam) Superhero MMORPG's waiting to scoop up the dissatisfied masses. These games are 'newer' than CO, but unlike CO? They have a quality product that delivers without the absurd problems as we've seen here. Sure, you may not 'like' them because they aren't superhero games... but imagine if half the effort of those games went into CO?
Sad, isn't it?
You seem to assume that I'm ignorant of all this. I know these games have better population, better writing, better this and that. I know where champions site on the totem pole of MMOs. Now your turn to imagine. What if Cryptic is trying to figure out a way to earn more money to pay for more development for this game, but can only do so with the resources they have now? It's a bad situation to be in charge of. Maybe you could lend them your crystal ball and they can stop taking shots in the dark. Until then though, they'll probably just listen to the marketing team who look at the numbers and try to figure out what's the best next thing to try to get this game chugging again.
The only thing I'm surprised at is that there aren't more topics going on about this. We thought the forums were going to be a nightmare for a while.
I think the new forums are just such a beating to use that it's curtailing it. I'm still in disbelief at how bad they are, and it's made a noticeable dent in activity on here.
So you are going to say, definitely and sincerely, you believe an ultimate power unlock token will have a market standard average AH price of only 100g? With a straight face?
The only thing that I've seen that this game's market runs on is supply and demand. Too much supply, and you will quickly see cost go down, regardless of how useful the item is, because the next guy that wants to sell one doesn't mind selling it for 100g less than the guy before him. And on and on and on. You can see this hilariously put into practice usually with the less-rare costume drops like the Clockwork Tights and Clockwork Rifle. Search for these on the first day, and you'll see the first guy that got the tights searched the auction house and saw none, so, heck, seller's market, right? 6000 G! Next one down is 2000. Next one 1000. All the way down to 100 or less, all within hours of lockbox launch.
The players who think that a common item that is really powerful should be really expensive are going to be sad, unless they try and control the market by buying up all the cheap ones and reselling, which is risky because unless you have an entire cartel fixing prices around the clock, you might keep getting undercut by lots of other people. If no kind of silly price-fixing cartel thing happens, then the price will only be determined by supply.
You know how lockbox costume sets go for over 3000 G on the first day, 2000-3000 on the first week, then steadily go down to 1000 or lower as the weeks go by, until a new lockbox comes out? These prices aren't set by the players just because they're costumes. If they were, I'd be rich with these Dino Suit costume sets, which, last I checked sold for around 20 G a pop. Why, after all this time, does a costume set, whose equals sell for thousands, does the price stay so low? Tons of supply.
So yes, I can say with a straight face, 100g. The same price that other mid-rarity items sell for when the lockbox is current. Once (if) the lockbox makes it to PTS, people will figure out the drop rate, and I can stop guessing at what the prices will settle on and make a more educated guess. If it's like 5% or less drop rate, then the DevBlog was absolutely way off, false, and misleading, and I'll change my tune to around 3000 G. If it's in line with the other times I'm considering to be the same "mid-rarity" tier, then 100 G seems absolutely plausible. If it's somewhere inbetween, then I'll adjust accordingly.
But in the meantime, I'm just going to go off of what we know and can guess at, and those things are that supply dictates price, the token will not be among the rarest items, and the price of what other lockbox items sell for.
If anyone has any reason to believe these will be absurdly-priced, I'd like to hear why.
this is the kind of thing that makes it sound like tantrums. If you want people to take you seriously, you should probably avoid this kind of stuff. Insulting people is not the best way to get their attention.
If you can't decipher the difference between an exagerrated example of imagery and a 'tantrum', then perhaps you should pause for a moment. Sorry, this is how it works. It's a test, if successful the practice will continue. It's how it works, and I've enough business experience and businessmen in the family to understand this.
Im capable of understanding real examples, so there's no need for analogies. Only thing analogies have ever done on these forums is spin off big "no, it's more like..." tangents.
Obviously, but many aren't aware of how businesses work. This game has been on a constant downward spiral, and a bit of trend analysis is all it takes. A little business understanding is why I was able to peg a certain 'activist' in gaming as a marketing snake oil saleswoman from the jump. But sadly, we have a community here full of fanboys that think PWE and Cryptic are their pals.
I'm well aware of it. And you seem to be assuming that I'm going to spend money on this lockbox. I'm not even going to spend a single point of my stipend on it, not even for keys to trade for the big prizes.
And don't tell me I'm fooling myself. I've already stated plenty that if this is truly a mid-rarity item, then it's fine the way it is (pending actual testing of drop rate on PTS or live) but if they change that on the next lockbox, I'll be fully against it. I know the past, I know the history of this game, and the fact that I made that last stipulation is a direct result of thinking of the chances that history will repeat here.
Good. Then don't spend a dime, and don't tolerate this now. "If they change that on the next lockbox" is too late. Being pro-active is better than being re-active. "The Next Lockbox" will only leave you ONE option- complaining. Or 'tantrums'.
Yeah I'm sure vehicles are so terrible that they became completely overused for some content and had to be nerfed multiple times. Maybe you formed your opinion of them when they first launched and you haven't bothered revisiting?
Vehicles were a 'nifty' idea to me, but I was one of the majority that thought they'd make decent travel powers like a mount in other MMORPG's. I was also one of the many that thought we'd be able to customize them, as we were told the customization would "Not be to the same degree as characters". Just like a rock "doesn't fly quite like a space shuttle". You can't really call them liars, but that's most certainly misleading. And we paid money for them, more for them when different colors were around. Instead of saying "No, let us customize the color of the vehicle of nothing else", we threw money out. Test successful, cue licking of yellowed teeth.
This is the part where we see the exact same things but we just interpret them differently. You see it as evil men lurking in the shadows, wringing their hands and wondering how much money they can squeeze out of the players in... one of their lowest-earning games? Wouldn't you want to do evil, yellow-toothed money-grubbing schemes on a game that has a decent population so you can actually make some money from those schemes?
the way I see it, the game needs to pull in more money because, let's face it, Champions doesn't seem like it was ever printing money. They're looking for the thing that's going to increase revenue because the game needs it.
I see business as business. I see customer dissatisfaction as an effective tool. Notice how the Arkham Knight got pulled from Steam until it was fixed because the PC port was so God-Awful? That's an example of how effective as it is. The people that ported that game and put it up for sale weren't 'evil'. They were businessmen, trying to make a quick buck. News flash: People who are trying to make money will generally do what they can get away with, until someone calls them out on it and lights a fire.
And I've seen feedback work plenty of times. You're using hyperbole again.
You seem to think that this joke on life support is thriving because it's in a coma. Since 2011 when I started this game, ONE adventure pack has been added. 4 years with no real content isn't a game with development, it's maintenance mode.
If you've seen feedback work, great! I remember those years before Cryptic North. But hey, at least they fixed the chat-mute /report_spam thing. We'd only been complaining about that since launch.
You seem to assume that I'm ignorant of all this. I know these games have better population, better writing, better this and that. I know where champions site on the totem pole of MMOs. Now your turn to imagine. What if Cryptic is trying to figure out a way to earn more money to pay for more development for this game, but can only do so with the resources they have now? It's a bad situation to be in charge of. Maybe you could lend them your crystal ball and they can stop taking shots in the dark. Until then though, they'll probably just listen to the marketing team who look at the numbers and try to figure out what's the best next thing to try to get this game chugging again.
And let me guess- the lack of players and revenue for Champions Online is because it's the misunderstood, but totally really cool kid deep down, right? It has nothing to do with its lack of balance, no endgame, grabass writing, pay-2-win practices, and a slew of other ideas? No, 'the rest of the players out there' just 'don't get it', right? I'm sure the situation this game is in has nothing to do with the people behind it. The world just wasn't ready for CO, right?
Face it- I know you love this game, I don't know why- but it's not coming back until someone else takes the reins. That's why we had high hopes for Cryptic North. Sadly, it wasn't enough to send it to the B-string. It will take a real development team.
I hope we can see the actual lockbox on pts before it hits live. Mid-range rarity could mean a lot of things. If it's like the purple costumes? Then it'll likely drop under 200g in a few days. If it's like Legion Gear though? Well even crappy legion gear still goes for a fair chunk, and the highly sought after ones go for upwards of 2k. My prediction right now is more around the 1k range.
Same. I am concerned about the "Mid-Rarity" labelling it was given. Actually, I'd like an example of a past item that could be labelled "mid-rarity". My guess is Legion Gear...
this is the kind of thing that makes it sound like tantrums. If you want people to take you seriously, you should probably avoid this kind of stuff. Insulting people is not the best way to get their attention.
If you can't decipher the difference between an exagerrated example of imagery and a 'tantrum', then perhaps you should pause for a moment. Sorry, this is how it works. It's a test, if successful the practice will continue. It's how it works, and I've enough business experience and businessmen in the family to understand this.
Im capable of understanding real examples, so there's no need for analogies. Only thing analogies have ever done on these forums is spin off big "no, it's more like..." tangents.
Obviously, but many aren't aware of how businesses work. This game has been on a constant downward spiral, and a bit of trend analysis is all it takes. A little business understanding is why I was able to peg a certain 'activist' in gaming as a marketing snake oil saleswoman from the jump. But sadly, we have a community here full of fanboys that think PWE and Cryptic are their pals.
I'm well aware of it. And you seem to be assuming that I'm going to spend money on this lockbox. I'm not even going to spend a single point of my stipend on it, not even for keys to trade for the big prizes.
And don't tell me I'm fooling myself. I've already stated plenty that if this is truly a mid-rarity item, then it's fine the way it is (pending actual testing of drop rate on PTS or live) but if they change that on the next lockbox, I'll be fully against it. I know the past, I know the history of this game, and the fact that I made that last stipulation is a direct result of thinking of the chances that history will repeat here.
Good. Then don't spend a dime, and don't tolerate this now. "If they change that on the next lockbox" is too late. Being pro-active is better than being re-active. "The Next Lockbox" will only leave you ONE option- complaining. Or 'tantrums'.
I hope you realize you keep saying stuff I already know. You're not giving me business lectures. I've been in the actual gaming business. I've seen all these practices before from within.
Yeah I'm sure vehicles are so terrible that they became completely overused for some content and had to be nerfed multiple times. Maybe you formed your opinion of them when they first launched and you haven't bothered revisiting?
Vehicles were a 'nifty' idea to me, but I was one of the majority that thought they'd make decent travel powers like a mount in other MMORPG's. I was also one of the many that thought we'd be able to customize them, as we were told the customization would "Not be to the same degree as characters". Just like a rock "doesn't fly quite like a space shuttle". You can't really call them liars, but that's most certainly misleading. And we paid money for them, more for them when different colors were around. Instead of saying "No, let us customize the color of the vehicle of nothing else", we threw money out. Test successful, cue licking of yellowed teeth.
That's completely off the point you were making, but I'll take the opportunity to say that I also just wanted them as travel powers.
This is the part where we see the exact same things but we just interpret them differently. You see it as evil men lurking in the shadows, wringing their hands and wondering how much money they can squeeze out of the players in... one of their lowest-earning games? Wouldn't you want to do evil, yellow-toothed money-grubbing schemes on a game that has a decent population so you can actually make some money from those schemes?
the way I see it, the game needs to pull in more money because, let's face it, Champions doesn't seem like it was ever printing money. They're looking for the thing that's going to increase revenue because the game needs it.
I see business as business. I see customer dissatisfaction as an effective tool. Notice how the Arkham Knight got pulled from Steam until it was fixed because the PC port was so God-Awful? That's an example of how effective as it is. The people that ported that game and put it up for sale weren't 'evil'. They were businessmen, trying to make a quick buck. News flash: People who are trying to make money will generally do what they can get away with, until someone calls them out on it and lights a fire.
It could have been a case of poor or not enough testing. Again, something I've seen from within in a similar situation, not based on greed, but sometimes on poor communications or the worst of them all, deadlines.
And I've seen feedback work plenty of times. You're using hyperbole again.
You seem to think that this joke on life support is thriving because it's in a coma. Since 2011 when I started this game, ONE adventure pack has been added. 4 years with no real content isn't a game with development, it's maintenance mode.
Thriving?? Come on, man. That straw man isn't going to hold up, at all.
And you might want to look up what maintenance mode actually means. The game has active development. Just because that development isn't where you want it to be or at the speed you want it to be doesn't make it maintenance. "No new zones or missions" isn't maintenance. 2012, that's the closest we came to maintenance mode.
If you've seen feedback work, great! I remember those years before Cryptic North. But hey, at least they fixed the chat-mute /report_spam thing. We'd only been complaining about that since launch.
You seem to assume that I'm ignorant of all this. I know these games have better population, better writing, better this and that. I know where champions site on the totem pole of MMOs. Now your turn to imagine. What if Cryptic is trying to figure out a way to earn more money to pay for more development for this game, but can only do so with the resources they have now? It's a bad situation to be in charge of. Maybe you could lend them your crystal ball and they can stop taking shots in the dark. Until then though, they'll probably just listen to the marketing team who look at the numbers and try to figure out what's the best next thing to try to get this game chugging again.
And let me guess- the lack of players and revenue for Champions Online is because it's the misunderstood, but totally really cool kid deep down, right? It has nothing to do with its lack of balance, no endgame, grabass writing, pay-2-win practices, and a slew of other ideas? No, 'the rest of the players out there' just 'don't get it', right? I'm sure the situation this game is in has nothing to do with the people behind it. The world just wasn't ready for CO, right?
Face it- I know you love this game, I don't know why- but it's not coming back until someone else takes the reins. That's why we had high hopes for Cryptic North. Sadly, it wasn't enough to send it to the B-string. It will take a real development team.
You have a real vivid imagination, but trying to poke fun at me by assuming I think the game is misunderstood and all that other silly garbage you wrote isn't going to get you anywhere. Really, what does all that do for this conversation?
I'll tell you why I love this game though. Regardless of how much development love it gets, I like the game because the character creation and the combat system. Simple, right? Well, theres other reasons too, but for the sake of brevity. The fact that there hasn't been tons of development doesn't change those two things that I like. There are no other games that I've played that give me those two things at the same time, so so far there has been no "replacement" for Champs for me yet. That's just not how it works for me. Like, remember when CoH died and a bunch of people from there went to Star Trek? I was like, "what the whaaaa" because that's not the logical next choice to me. That's when I realized that some people don't play superhero games just because they're superhero games. They'll play whatever as long as it has a good story or whatever. Which is cool, be my guest, I don't care. But that's the reason you'll never convince me that Secret World is a good replacement for Champions.
I've been playing lots of Marvel Heroes lately, and it's fun, and it's a superhero game, and gets constant updates, and has lots of fun events, but it doesn't have those things that I like that Champs has. Makes sense, right?
I hope we can see the actual lockbox on pts before it hits live. Mid-range rarity could mean a lot of things. If it's like the purple costumes? Then it'll likely drop under 200g in a few days. If it's like Legion Gear though? Well even crappy legion gear still goes for a fair chunk, and the highly sought after ones go for upwards of 2k. My prediction right now is more around the 1k range.
Same. I am concerned about the "Mid-Rarity" labelling it was given. Actually, I'd like an example of a past item that could be labelled "mid-rarity". My guess is Legion Gear...
Yup yup. And this is what it all hinges on for me.
I'll tell you why I love this game though. Regardless of how much development love it gets, I like the game because the character creation and the combat system. Simple, right? Well, theres other reasons too, but for the sake of brevity. The fact that there hasn't been tons of development doesn't change those two things that I like. There are no other games that I've played that give me those two things at the same time, so so far there has been no "replacement" for Champs for me yet. That's just not how it works for me.
This, this, a thousand times this.
Anyway, the next PTS build will likely have the lockbox to test drop rates. I will stop commenting until then.
I see business as business. I see customer dissatisfaction as an effective tool. Notice how the Arkham Knight got pulled from Steam until it was fixed because the PC port was so God-Awful? That's an example of how effective as it is. The people that ported that game and put it up for sale weren't 'evil'. They were businessmen, trying to make a quick buck. News flash: People who are trying to make money will generally do what they can get away with, until someone calls them out on it and lights a fire.
Batman: Arkham Knight for PC was recalled because the bonfires were so bright, Gawker and Vox couldn't miss them. Consumer outrage only goes so far; it takes the media to really put the screws to a corporation. Unfortunately, the mainstream gaming sites don't care about MMOs not named World of Warcraft (unless somebody pulls a Squeenix and releases an OS X port so awful, it has to be recalled), and MassivelyOP won't make anything more than snarky little asides about the state of CO because they're scared that if they stop pulling their punches, Cryptic will stop giving them exclusives on STO and NW.
So let's step back and take an inventory:
City of Heroes: Superhero-dead, and if NCSoft doesn't spare a lawyer from Nexon's takeover bids long enough to resume negotiations with Nate Downes and the Plan Z guys, it'll be Uncle Ben-dead.
DC Universe Online: Still City of Sidekicks, still doesn't get what made CoH great, still plays like a console port.
Marvel Heroes: An ARPG with a MOBA roster. It's a delicious orange, but it's not an apple.
Valiance Online: No hint of lore, no hint of a combat system (or a crafting system, or a player housing system, or any system), but they've made somebody else's fantasy engine into an interesting tech demo in a shoddy Statesman cosplay outfit.
City of Titans: Discovering how difficult it was for Cryptic to get CoH off the ground all those years ago, but because they Kickstarted it, they have to make the sausage in front a public that somehow expects an MMO of AAA ambitions to be completed in code-jam time.
Champions Online: The present hell. Last seen firing a tightrope between Pay-To-Win Canyon and praying for no crosswinds.
My nephew leveled a couple of toons to 40 about three years ago. We were at the 4th of July family cookout this weekend, and he asked me about how the game was doing today, and I'll tell you what I told him: CO is still running because Cryptic would never live down the shame of shutting it down without somewhere else for us to go.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I don't know what Cryptic you know, but the one I've dealt with for nine years has no shame of that nature, nor should they. If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
I don't really see how the Arkham Knight situation is even comparable since it has to do with the game being unplayable during crucial batmobile parts with the freeze-ups and just downright performing horribly even on high-end rigs. CO with its bugs and less-than-stellar optimization doesn't even compare to that cluster****.
There also hasn't been a single instance of mass refunds with CO that is publicly known to us so far that has happened with Arkham Knight to really push WB / Rocksteady to do some major damage control. If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told, I think everything with the game is okay? Is that what you're inferring? I'm laughing at the irony. I post my opinion, and you accuse me of trying to invalidate yours. But your retorts to my opinions is that I'm trying too hard. Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter. Some awesome pot-kettle action you have going there.
If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
Yeah. It's happened before, and it'll happen again if the way they implement this turns out to be unpopular and doesn't make enough money.
My guess, and fear, is that it will make them enough money to want to continue it, but at a lower drop rate so people will have to buy more boxes for it. The only way I'm good with this is if it's a decent drop rate and it stays that way. I hope PTS testing starts off good, at least.
I don't get why people who don't play the game use the forums and are more vocal than people who do.
Either way...I will still get the item. It will probably be in my inventory while I am aiming for something else. Oh and *DOOM DOOM DOOM!*, i'm over it already.
I won't guess as to what the AH value of the power will be until its live, because Cryptic saying mid level rarity doesn't mean squat. Mid level rarity to them for all we know means 1/66 chance.
I can be completely for lockboxes and still be against powers in them simply because everything in them up to this point is cosmetic or has been rebalanced to be so. After all the fixes to make all vehicles balanced with the Mark II and Justice gear being acquirable in game, adding new powers into the lockbox is a step backward into this trap. Because its somehow retroactively not pay to win when they fix the issues of lockbox content two years later.
Cryptic has shown that they are fine with selling power in a lockbox because as soon as its proven too much, they will nerf things into uselessness and the customers will pay the cost.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told...
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
It's funny that you seem to be standing on a moral high ground when resorting to such a personal attack is far worse than anyone genuinely defending the powers-in-lockbox issue.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told...
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
You guys both seem to only be reading what you want to see. I completely have my reservations about this, yet you both think I'm white knighting just because I haven't flown into a rage about it.
Typing a lot about a subject doesn't mean anything. If typing was a laborious task then perhaps it would mean that I'm straining to really prove something to you guys but I'm hardly pushing a boulder uphill here. The only reason for my posting as much as I have is because I've seen things worth discussing. That's all. No big secrets here, just using a forum for discussions.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Lies! I know you've been getting special treatment and insider information from devs and also an extra 100 ZEN each time you praise them!
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
That's how I became the leader of the Cryptic Defense Force in STO - I refused to accept the idea that Delta Rising would cause the entire game to go under inside six months. If you're not with these people, you're against them, you know, and from their POV "discussion" means agreeing with everything they say and disagreement is "censorship".
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
And if Cryptic or PWE determined that the opportunity cost of keeping CO in (barely) active development, against reallocating the servers, bandwidth, and employees to STO, NW, and Super-Secret Project #4, was too high, it'd be gone, too.
There's been lot of cheap heat and dirty sniping going on in here lately over the perceived apathy of Cryptic toward CO. If that were really the case, we'd be talking about Maintenance Mode, not Cryptic moving development back to the home office and putting a veteran with deep experience in CO's foundations in charge. I would take issue with the instability that has come from stripping the dev team bare, shipping the game off to a satellite office, dealing with their growing pains, then shipping the game back to the home office. The past few months have demonstrated that it can wreak havoc on quality control. Those aren't the actions of a management that doesn't care if the game lives or dies, though.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I've been on a break but come to the forums to find this?
I agree with everyone who's saying that this cannot be allowed to take root.
I seriously need a new powerset to reinvigorate my interest in the game, but this isn't the way to go about it.
If we're going to start making Subs and LTS pay for new powers as well, at least give me the option to buy it outright if I so choose, not stick it in another Gawd awful lockbox regardless of how good the chances of getting it are.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Here are my calculated drop rates based on PTS data:
1500 lockboxes generated 44 Gravity Driver tokens, or about 2.9% drop rate
1500 lockboxes generated 33 costume sets, or about 2.3%
Seems like a low probability, until you compare with vehicle and legion drop rate:
1500 lockboxes, 24 legion kits, or about 1.6%
1500 lockboxes, 14 vehicles (two different colors), or about 0.93%
So yeah, that is medium probability, in the sense that it is the same probability as the weapon skin unlock, and lower probability than things like merc gear, Q crates, drifter crates (both with around 11% drop rates), and so on.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
Thanks for an official response, Mr. Cryptic
It does seem as if there could be future plans for this to be somewhat of a thing considering a new tab in the AH is being put in. Then again that could just be to clarify things, so...yeah.
All I know is that I'll have the Gravity Driver Token and hopefully (*glares at RNG*), I'll have some to spare.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
What a load of pr nonsense. There's nothing to keep an open mind about.
The bigger concern is the path you are taking the game down. Increasing prices in the C-store, while lowering the quality, and now stuffing overpowered powers into lockboxes.
Looks like the numbers are in. So what they call mid-rarity is more like "somewhere in the middle of the most rare items." Well, I definitely feel misled. So they'll probably be selling for 3000g or more first day, and fall to around 1000g a few weeks later.
Can't say I'm loving it, pretty sure I won't support it with money. Affordable to some but not all. Very lame.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button. Also, 'Mid-Range' means nothing when 39 of 40 bucks lands you R5 Enhancements and Resource boosts. You're asking us to 'keep an open mind', for... what? It's already obvious what this is, it sounds like you're telling us to just stop being outraged.
Sorry, Mr. Cryptic. You seem like a great guy, and you're just trying to do your job- I get it. But I must be fair and straightforward with you.
You want to give better value to someone? How about the lifetimers that dropped what some families pay in groceries for a month on your game because we had faith in it, or the people who still subscribe despite the lack of content this game has seen over the years (I got news for you, an emote recycled from a powerset's Passive ability is NOT 'value'). What about the 'value' you gave us when you acknowledged that some costumes were substandards, and you RAISED THE PRICES and even made the 'low value' costumes more expensive? How about the people who have been pleading to fix the absurd amount of bugs, many which are in the tailor AKA 'one of the two main selling points of CO'? What about the customers that come here and beg for you to provide some kind of feedback, some clues on what you plan to do with this game's future?
To be fair, when you guys do good- you do great. But right now, it looks like the priorities are not just backwards... but upside down and on fire.
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
For what it's worth, He's one of the originals that worked on this game (or somewhere thereabouts)
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button.
It's not an "OP Kill-button" at all in its current PTS state.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Yep, not only will this be all over the place given by the system, but prepare to get pm-spammed by hundreds for the one item you were (un)lucky enough to pull out regardless if they're just congratulating you or requesting a trade.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON NON NON NON!
WHY IS THIS GOING TO BE A FEATURE?
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
You claim to use feedback but the companies history keeps saying otherwise. (Look at the latest costume sets, the feedback for the variable robot set was mostly ignored and it looks nothing like the concept art that was submitted.)
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long. Eventually people will find other ways to get what they want with out doing what they don't want to do. If that means going someplace else, then that is what they will do.
Comments
this is the kind of thing that makes it sound like tantrums. If you want people to take you seriously, you should probably avoid this kind of stuff. Insulting people is not the best way to get their attention.
Im capable of understanding real examples, so there's no need for analogies. Only thing analogies have ever done on these forums is spin off big "no, it's more like..." tangents.
I'm well aware of it. And you seem to be assuming that I'm going to spend money on this lockbox. I'm not even going to spend a single point of my stipend on it, not even for keys to trade for the big prizes.
And don't tell me I'm fooling myself. I've already stated plenty that if this is truly a mid-rarity item, then it's fine the way it is (pending actual testing of drop rate on PTS or live) but if they change that on the next lockbox, I'll be fully against it. I know the past, I know the history of this game, and the fact that I made that last stipulation is a direct result of thinking of the chances that history will repeat here.
Yeah I'm sure vehicles are so terrible that they became completely overused for some content and had to be nerfed multiple times. Maybe you formed your opinion of them when they first launched and you haven't bothered revisiting?
This is the part where we see the exact same things but we just interpret them differently. You see it as evil men lurking in the shadows, wringing their hands and wondering how much money they can squeeze out of the players in... one of their lowest-earning games? Wouldn't you want to do evil, yellow-toothed money-grubbing schemes on a game that has a decent population so you can actually make some money from those schemes?
the way I see it, the game needs to pull in more money because, let's face it, Champions doesn't seem like it was ever printing money. They're looking for the thing that's going to increase revenue because the game needs it.
I'm trying to see if I can roll my eyes any harder. I don't care where RPers go to RP. please don't follow up with this being the doom that will befall Champions. I've been hearing that since day -14.
Brought your crystal ball with you, huh?
And I've seen feedback work plenty of times. You're using hyperbole again.
You seem to assume that I'm ignorant of all this. I know these games have better population, better writing, better this and that. I know where champions site on the totem pole of MMOs. Now your turn to imagine. What if Cryptic is trying to figure out a way to earn more money to pay for more development for this game, but can only do so with the resources they have now? It's a bad situation to be in charge of. Maybe you could lend them your crystal ball and they can stop taking shots in the dark. Until then though, they'll probably just listen to the marketing team who look at the numbers and try to figure out what's the best next thing to try to get this game chugging again.
Definitely.
The only thing that I've seen that this game's market runs on is supply and demand. Too much supply, and you will quickly see cost go down, regardless of how useful the item is, because the next guy that wants to sell one doesn't mind selling it for 100g less than the guy before him. And on and on and on. You can see this hilariously put into practice usually with the less-rare costume drops like the Clockwork Tights and Clockwork Rifle. Search for these on the first day, and you'll see the first guy that got the tights searched the auction house and saw none, so, heck, seller's market, right? 6000 G! Next one down is 2000. Next one 1000. All the way down to 100 or less, all within hours of lockbox launch.
The players who think that a common item that is really powerful should be really expensive are going to be sad, unless they try and control the market by buying up all the cheap ones and reselling, which is risky because unless you have an entire cartel fixing prices around the clock, you might keep getting undercut by lots of other people. If no kind of silly price-fixing cartel thing happens, then the price will only be determined by supply.
You know how lockbox costume sets go for over 3000 G on the first day, 2000-3000 on the first week, then steadily go down to 1000 or lower as the weeks go by, until a new lockbox comes out? These prices aren't set by the players just because they're costumes. If they were, I'd be rich with these Dino Suit costume sets, which, last I checked sold for around 20 G a pop. Why, after all this time, does a costume set, whose equals sell for thousands, does the price stay so low? Tons of supply.
So yes, I can say with a straight face, 100g. The same price that other mid-rarity items sell for when the lockbox is current. Once (if) the lockbox makes it to PTS, people will figure out the drop rate, and I can stop guessing at what the prices will settle on and make a more educated guess. If it's like 5% or less drop rate, then the DevBlog was absolutely way off, false, and misleading, and I'll change my tune to around 3000 G. If it's in line with the other times I'm considering to be the same "mid-rarity" tier, then 100 G seems absolutely plausible. If it's somewhere inbetween, then I'll adjust accordingly.
But in the meantime, I'm just going to go off of what we know and can guess at, and those things are that supply dictates price, the token will not be among the rarest items, and the price of what other lockbox items sell for.
If anyone has any reason to believe these will be absurdly-priced, I'd like to hear why.
If you can't decipher the difference between an exagerrated example of imagery and a 'tantrum', then perhaps you should pause for a moment. Sorry, this is how it works. It's a test, if successful the practice will continue. It's how it works, and I've enough business experience and businessmen in the family to understand this.
Obviously, but many aren't aware of how businesses work. This game has been on a constant downward spiral, and a bit of trend analysis is all it takes. A little business understanding is why I was able to peg a certain 'activist' in gaming as a marketing snake oil saleswoman from the jump. But sadly, we have a community here full of fanboys that think PWE and Cryptic are their pals.
Good. Then don't spend a dime, and don't tolerate this now. "If they change that on the next lockbox" is too late. Being pro-active is better than being re-active. "The Next Lockbox" will only leave you ONE option- complaining. Or 'tantrums'.
Vehicles were a 'nifty' idea to me, but I was one of the majority that thought they'd make decent travel powers like a mount in other MMORPG's. I was also one of the many that thought we'd be able to customize them, as we were told the customization would "Not be to the same degree as characters". Just like a rock "doesn't fly quite like a space shuttle". You can't really call them liars, but that's most certainly misleading. And we paid money for them, more for them when different colors were around. Instead of saying "No, let us customize the color of the vehicle of nothing else", we threw money out. Test successful, cue licking of yellowed teeth.
I see business as business. I see customer dissatisfaction as an effective tool. Notice how the Arkham Knight got pulled from Steam until it was fixed because the PC port was so God-Awful? That's an example of how effective as it is. The people that ported that game and put it up for sale weren't 'evil'. They were businessmen, trying to make a quick buck. News flash: People who are trying to make money will generally do what they can get away with, until someone calls them out on it and lights a fire.
You seem to think that this joke on life support is thriving because it's in a coma. Since 2011 when I started this game, ONE adventure pack has been added. 4 years with no real content isn't a game with development, it's maintenance mode.
If you've seen feedback work, great! I remember those years before Cryptic North. But hey, at least they fixed the chat-mute /report_spam thing. We'd only been complaining about that since launch.
And let me guess- the lack of players and revenue for Champions Online is because it's the misunderstood, but totally really cool kid deep down, right? It has nothing to do with its lack of balance, no endgame, grabass writing, pay-2-win practices, and a slew of other ideas? No, 'the rest of the players out there' just 'don't get it', right? I'm sure the situation this game is in has nothing to do with the people behind it. The world just wasn't ready for CO, right?
Face it- I know you love this game, I don't know why- but it's not coming back until someone else takes the reins. That's why we had high hopes for Cryptic North. Sadly, it wasn't enough to send it to the B-string. It will take a real development team.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
I hope you realize you keep saying stuff I already know. You're not giving me business lectures. I've been in the actual gaming business. I've seen all these practices before from within.
That's completely off the point you were making, but I'll take the opportunity to say that I also just wanted them as travel powers.
It could have been a case of poor or not enough testing. Again, something I've seen from within in a similar situation, not based on greed, but sometimes on poor communications or the worst of them all, deadlines.
Thriving?? Come on, man. That straw man isn't going to hold up, at all.
And you might want to look up what maintenance mode actually means. The game has active development. Just because that development isn't where you want it to be or at the speed you want it to be doesn't make it maintenance. "No new zones or missions" isn't maintenance. 2012, that's the closest we came to maintenance mode.
Before, during, and after Cryptic North.
You have a real vivid imagination, but trying to poke fun at me by assuming I think the game is misunderstood and all that other silly garbage you wrote isn't going to get you anywhere. Really, what does all that do for this conversation?
I'll tell you why I love this game though. Regardless of how much development love it gets, I like the game because the character creation and the combat system. Simple, right? Well, theres other reasons too, but for the sake of brevity. The fact that there hasn't been tons of development doesn't change those two things that I like. There are no other games that I've played that give me those two things at the same time, so so far there has been no "replacement" for Champs for me yet. That's just not how it works for me. Like, remember when CoH died and a bunch of people from there went to Star Trek? I was like, "what the whaaaa" because that's not the logical next choice to me. That's when I realized that some people don't play superhero games just because they're superhero games. They'll play whatever as long as it has a good story or whatever. Which is cool, be my guest, I don't care. But that's the reason you'll never convince me that Secret World is a good replacement for Champions.
I've been playing lots of Marvel Heroes lately, and it's fun, and it's a superhero game, and gets constant updates, and has lots of fun events, but it doesn't have those things that I like that Champs has. Makes sense, right?
Yup yup. And this is what it all hinges on for me.
This, this, a thousand times this.
Anyway, the next PTS build will likely have the lockbox to test drop rates. I will stop commenting until then.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Batman: Arkham Knight for PC was recalled because the bonfires were so bright, Gawker and Vox couldn't miss them. Consumer outrage only goes so far; it takes the media to really put the screws to a corporation. Unfortunately, the mainstream gaming sites don't care about MMOs not named World of Warcraft (unless somebody pulls a Squeenix and releases an OS X port so awful, it has to be recalled), and MassivelyOP won't make anything more than snarky little asides about the state of CO because they're scared that if they stop pulling their punches, Cryptic will stop giving them exclusives on STO and NW.
So let's step back and take an inventory:
City of Heroes: Superhero-dead, and if NCSoft doesn't spare a lawyer from Nexon's takeover bids long enough to resume negotiations with Nate Downes and the Plan Z guys, it'll be Uncle Ben-dead.
DC Universe Online: Still City of Sidekicks, still doesn't get what made CoH great, still plays like a console port.
Marvel Heroes: An ARPG with a MOBA roster. It's a delicious orange, but it's not an apple.
Valiance Online: No hint of lore, no hint of a combat system (or a crafting system, or a player housing system, or any system), but they've made somebody else's fantasy engine into an interesting tech demo in a shoddy Statesman cosplay outfit.
City of Titans: Discovering how difficult it was for Cryptic to get CoH off the ground all those years ago, but because they Kickstarted it, they have to make the sausage in front a public that somehow expects an MMO of AAA ambitions to be completed in code-jam time.
Champions Online: The present hell. Last seen firing a tightrope between Pay-To-Win Canyon and praying for no crosswinds.
My nephew leveled a couple of toons to 40 about three years ago. We were at the 4th of July family cookout this weekend, and he asked me about how the game was doing today, and I'll tell you what I told him: CO is still running because Cryptic would never live down the shame of shutting it down without somewhere else for us to go.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
HAHAHAHA!
I don't know what Cryptic you know, but the one I've dealt with for nine years has no shame of that nature, nor should they. If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
There also hasn't been a single instance of mass refunds with CO that is publicly known to us so far that has happened with Arkham Knight to really push WB / Rocksteady to do some major damage control. If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro
Seriously, stop trying so hard; we all get it.
For everyone else:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5c2YR1lVE
Yeah. It's happened before, and it'll happen again if the way they implement this turns out to be unpopular and doesn't make enough money.
My guess, and fear, is that it will make them enough money to want to continue it, but at a lower drop rate so people will have to buy more boxes for it. The only way I'm good with this is if it's a decent drop rate and it stays that way. I hope PTS testing starts off good, at least.
Either way...I will still get the item. It will probably be in my inventory while I am aiming for something else. Oh and *DOOM DOOM DOOM!*, i'm over it already.
I can be completely for lockboxes and still be against powers in them simply because everything in them up to this point is cosmetic or has been rebalanced to be so. After all the fixes to make all vehicles balanced with the Mark II and Justice gear being acquirable in game, adding new powers into the lockbox is a step backward into this trap. Because its somehow retroactively not pay to win when they fix the issues of lockbox content two years later.
Cryptic has shown that they are fine with selling power in a lockbox because as soon as its proven too much, they will nerf things into uselessness and the customers will pay the cost.
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
It's funny that you seem to be standing on a moral high ground when resorting to such a personal attack is far worse than anyone genuinely defending the powers-in-lockbox issue.
You guys both seem to only be reading what you want to see. I completely have my reservations about this, yet you both think I'm white knighting just because I haven't flown into a rage about it.
Typing a lot about a subject doesn't mean anything. If typing was a laborious task then perhaps it would mean that I'm straining to really prove something to you guys but I'm hardly pushing a boulder uphill here. The only reason for my posting as much as I have is because I've seen things worth discussing. That's all. No big secrets here, just using a forum for discussions.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Lies! I know you've been getting special treatment and insider information from devs and also an extra 100 ZEN each time you praise them!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The only sensible reply I can come up with for them at this point is:
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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And if Cryptic or PWE determined that the opportunity cost of keeping CO in (barely) active development, against reallocating the servers, bandwidth, and employees to STO, NW, and Super-Secret Project #4, was too high, it'd be gone, too.
There's been lot of cheap heat and dirty sniping going on in here lately over the perceived apathy of Cryptic toward CO. If that were really the case, we'd be talking about Maintenance Mode, not Cryptic moving development back to the home office and putting a veteran with deep experience in CO's foundations in charge. I would take issue with the instability that has come from stripping the dev team bare, shipping the game off to a satellite office, dealing with their growing pains, then shipping the game back to the home office. The past few months have demonstrated that it can wreak havoc on quality control. Those aren't the actions of a management that doesn't care if the game lives or dies, though.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I agree with everyone who's saying that this cannot be allowed to take root.
I seriously need a new powerset to reinvigorate my interest in the game, but this isn't the way to go about it.
If we're going to start making Subs and LTS pay for new powers as well, at least give me the option to buy it outright if I so choose, not stick it in another Gawd awful lockbox regardless of how good the chances of getting it are.
You're a lunatic with a mad man's dream of a milk proof robot!
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I smiled.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
I've already invested- when I got my lifetime membership.
1500 lockboxes generated 44 Gravity Driver tokens, or about 2.9% drop rate
1500 lockboxes generated 33 costume sets, or about 2.3%
Seems like a low probability, until you compare with vehicle and legion drop rate:
1500 lockboxes, 24 legion kits, or about 1.6%
1500 lockboxes, 14 vehicles (two different colors), or about 0.93%
So yeah, that is medium probability, in the sense that it is the same probability as the weapon skin unlock, and lower probability than things like merc gear, Q crates, drifter crates (both with around 11% drop rates), and so on.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Thanks for an official response, Mr. Cryptic
It does seem as if there could be future plans for this to be somewhat of a thing considering a new tab in the AH is being put in. Then again that could just be to clarify things, so...yeah.
All I know is that I'll have the Gravity Driver Token and hopefully (*glares at RNG*), I'll have some to spare.
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I am @RavenForce in game
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And that is why the power isn't sold in the C-Store. No one would pay 3300 Z for a single power, but folks would, and do, spend 3300 Z on keys.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
What a load of pr nonsense. There's nothing to keep an open mind about.
The bigger concern is the path you are taking the game down. Increasing prices in the C-store, while lowering the quality, and now stuffing overpowered powers into lockboxes.
Can't say I'm loving it, pretty sure I won't support it with money. Affordable to some but not all. Very lame.
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button. Also, 'Mid-Range' means nothing when 39 of 40 bucks lands you R5 Enhancements and Resource boosts. You're asking us to 'keep an open mind', for... what? It's already obvious what this is, it sounds like you're telling us to just stop being outraged.
Sorry, Mr. Cryptic. You seem like a great guy, and you're just trying to do your job- I get it. But I must be fair and straightforward with you.
You want to give better value to someone? How about the lifetimers that dropped what some families pay in groceries for a month on your game because we had faith in it, or the people who still subscribe despite the lack of content this game has seen over the years (I got news for you, an emote recycled from a powerset's Passive ability is NOT 'value'). What about the 'value' you gave us when you acknowledged that some costumes were substandards, and you RAISED THE PRICES and even made the 'low value' costumes more expensive? How about the people who have been pleading to fix the absurd amount of bugs, many which are in the tailor AKA 'one of the two main selling points of CO'? What about the customers that come here and beg for you to provide some kind of feedback, some clues on what you plan to do with this game's future?
To be fair, when you guys do good- you do great. But right now, it looks like the priorities are not just backwards... but upside down and on fire.
You're a lunatic with a mad man's dream of a milk proof robot!
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For what it's worth, He's one of the originals that worked on this game (or somewhere thereabouts)
It's not an "OP Kill-button" at all in its current PTS state.
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Yep, not only will this be all over the place given by the system, but prepare to get pm-spammed by hundreds for the one item you were (un)lucky enough to pull out regardless if they're just congratulating you or requesting a trade.
RIP Lockbox Privacy.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON NON NON NON!
WHY IS THIS GOING TO BE A FEATURE?
So they are just testing this to see how we respond to it, huh?
Power Unlocks now have their own category in the PH
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Well, there you have it folks, the future of the game.
Unless it rises to 10% or more, it simply won't be enough.
On the plus side, the costume set is beautiful.
On the minus side, it's drop rate was slightly lower than GD.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
We'll finally get a new handgun model?!111111111111111111
You claim to use feedback but the companies history keeps saying otherwise. (Look at the latest costume sets, the feedback for the variable robot set was mostly ignored and it looks nothing like the concept art that was submitted.)
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long. Eventually people will find other ways to get what they want with out doing what they don't want to do. If that means going someplace else, then that is what they will do.