We’re trying some new things with the Ravenswood Lockbox. We wanted to put more value into the Lockbox by providing more rewards for players, on top of the usual 2+ Salvage every time you open a lockbox. This includes a new Ultimate Power unlock for the Force power set for Freeform players!
I think it's terrible, an effing awful idea. So much for getting access to powers by paying for a gold subsciption or a LTS.
The new Gravity Driver Ultimate Power unlock is available as a mid-rarity prize in the upcoming Ravenswood Lockbox.
That might make it quite affordable on auction. I don't think there will be any outrage once it sets in for a week.
I dunno about the economic stature this will have. But this isn't about money at this point. It's about the downright cruel disregard Cryptic and PWE has had for CO as of late. Ever since we were moved back to Los Gatos, I had expected some good things to happen... maybe the state of the game could turn around, you know? The way Variable Robot has handled, all the bugs introduced SINCE the return that haven't gotten fixed in spite of Cryptic "knowing" about them, and now they're doing this? Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. They'd make great politicians, and that's no compliment.
First the emote on a soon to be locked behind LTS gate and now this. Make powers available to anyone at any time or behind a method to be earned in game (Awakened AT for example). But not like this. Not RNG related. Not gamble related.
Placing powers in lockboxes is crossing the line in the sand. Shrug at this now and Cryptic will take that as silent consent to proceed with putting more and more content in them.
This should be protested loudly and clearly. I will personally spend not another dollar on the game while this practice is continued.
Agreed, choice of powers is meant to be one of the main things about subscribing to this game and now a power is hidden in a box which means another cost. The least they could do is let Gold's get it.
I have absolutely no issue with this. People that want other items in the lockbox will get the power as they gamble for their wanted piece. After they unlock one they'll likely throw them on the AH for anyone to get with G. Now, people can get it without spending real money on a Key and gambling. They can just buy it. It's how I get most of those Lockbox items myself. Let others pave the way and make these items readily available to the masses through in-game commerce. Just wait a week or two as you know the first week prices will be crazy.
When I first heard that it was going to be in a lockbox, I was very concerned. However...upon READING the blog post concerning this power:
The new Gravity Driver Ultimate Power unlock is available as a mid-rarity prize in the upcoming Ravenswood Lockbox. It comes as a token that can be either consumed, or traded/sold to other players. Once unlocked, players can choose it as their Ultimate Power on any Freeform character of level 35+ on their account.
Please pay attention to the "It comes as a token that can be either CONSUMED, or TRADED/SOLD to other players."
This has dispelled my concerns about it as I thought it would be an untradeable token. Since this isn't the case...I have no issue with what they are doing for this specific power.
There was nothing to suggest they will be producing new powers and locking them behind lockboxes, if this does become a fashion...then I can see a potential issue, if they do this to something which is highly anticipated.
Most people don't even know what Gravity Driver IS, let alone that it was in the works.
Why do I not have an issue with what they are doing?
Much like when Rocket Fist and The Automaton AT were released...people hated that AT and not everyone in CO was in a mad scramble for Rocket Fist, I certainly was not and I still don't have it unlocked. Why? Because I don't have a use for it.
In a similar manner, not everyone in CO will have use conceptually or build wise for Gravity Driver, so whilst unlocking it for all would be the usual method, since it is not in high demand, I don't see why this is an issue.
Unless everyone in CO wants to use this power (highly unlikely), I don't have an issue unlocking it this way. What I do know is that all the extra tradable tokens that I do get will be going to other players for free, I have no desire to benefit from selling ultimate powers.
As for who it is accessible to...Gold players receive a stipend and have the ability to farm for Q which can be turned into Zen which can be used to purchase Keys, which open lockboxes.
Usually in the first week of a new box...there is mass openings and Gravity Driver Tokens will probably be put on the market for stupid amounts but with time and with enough saturation they'll drop in price and eventually anyone who wants it will be able to afford it. That's how things work with lockbox items.
The only issue, one which another player brought up is of "What happens when the lockbox is out of rotation". That is one issue I am concerned about. I feel as if after this lockbox has run its course, the Gravity Driver Token could be added to the Q store for a reasonable amount.
EDIT: I am in no way saying that I endorse this becoming a regular or done "thing" when it comes to powers. I do feel that power sets should be available to everyone and as of right now, there is nothing to suggest they will try locking new powersets behind lockboxes. If they do then, in my eyes there is a large problem.
Much like the July ShaolinReady emote instead of costume unlock, they seem to be trying new things.
Having said that, if singular & very rare additions to powersets come along in future, I feel like they should be either unlocked like this or conventionally.
And also, what of the Silver who gets a token, yet has no freeforms to use? As it stands, before this bit of corporate grasping (that should be met with a firm rap to the knuckles with a splintery ruler) there was never a chance of getting something of zero practical use to anyone doing the opening.
NO POWER IN LOCBOXES!
I have no use for some mods which come out of boxes...yet other people do. I don't need Legion Gear anymore as my toons are geared, yet I still get it from boxes.
If a silver player gets a Gravity Driver Token...well, they have a chance to cash in on people who want that token. Simple.
While all your points are valid and well made, I believe the primary point at issue is the precedent this sets more than anything else.
Today a token for an Ultimate unlock. Tomorrow entire new power sets, all new costume sets, access to new zones, etc. While it isn't likely we will ever have the developer resources for the latter examples, the point still stands. This is how it begins.
Problem is: People are already unsubbing due to the fact that this power is in a lockbox. Thats a big time deal breaker for players who are subbed, or might be LTS. If the chance for the token is high enough to where people can get it without having to pay upwards of 1000g, it should be 'okay', and I use that term loosely. Do I feel the power should have just been added onto the existing powers list? Yes. Do I feel that Subbers are getting ripped off by this? Slightly. Can Silvers even GET this power? If not, then they are screwed out of luck, which is not fair.
Considering that Silver Players (AT's only) cannot access Premium AT's without paying and cannot access freeform without paying...the same applies here.
Gravity Driver, to my knowledge is not being added to The Impulse AT, so it is effectively a Gold Only power (with the exception of Silvers with an FF slot).
Silvers with an FF slot would be able to use Gravity Driver tokens for themselves as well as the ability to sell them on.
Having made the points I made earlier....
Today a token for an Ultimate unlock. Tomorrow entire new power sets, all new costume sets, access to new zones, etc. While it isn't likely we will ever have the developer resources for the latter examples, the point still stands. This is how it begins.
I cannot deny that this is a very worrying thought and I know I'd feel bad if it did go this way and I'd end up leaving probably.
I like to think this is a one time thing, but if there is an overwhelming scramble and money is made...well, there's nothing but player's word to stop this from happening again.
As for Gravity Driver...it has already been announced as being in a lockbox...so I'm going to say that's already spoken for and perhaps a better course of action would be to discuss BETTER and more accessible ways to unlock power in Champions Online, be it through the completion of a specific chain of missions, acquiring X amount of perk points etc, something like that in order to allow players to EARN the power/powers outside of boxes.
Admittedly because of my strong like for this power, I'm eager to see it fixed and in my hands, so whilst I think Gravity Driver will still remain in a lockbox as a token unlock...players could discuss ways in the future to unlock singluar powers like this, so this anger and disappointment doesn't happen all over again.
Just want to point out that Silver players do not get many powers in the game. Simply put, I'm not worried about them in this discussion--they couldn't get the new Telepathy or Laser Sword powers . . . or even an ice toon with the Ice Form passive.
Ya know, I see people in this thread whom I rarely ever agree with and usually make the jokes about getting my Gold Vendor Tinfoil Hat Unlock.....but....not this time. This is the potential 1st step down a very bad rabbit hole. I don't know if anyone from this entire company even reads their own forums recently(or can find/stomach/use them to be honest) but if they do then....please.....don't do this.
I saw the writing on the wall for this after seeing something similar happen in the Star Trek game.
I hate to say it.. but if STO is any precedent (*see lockbox traits) expect more lockbox powers. And I bet the pressure to make it happen is coming from the parent company. The sad fact is folks putting a power in a lockbox is going to be profitable (*again check out lockbox traits in STO).
Lockbox powers are coming to Champions. There is not much you can do about it. The protest of 4 people on the forum will not outweigh the money they will make from doing this. Just thank your lucky stars they can be traded in AH.
Let's all keep in mind that Cryptic have tried things before that, if they didn't go over well, they didn't continue doing them. If you're so opposed, then don't spend. If this lockbox makes less money than others, that'll send them the message that it's not a good way to go. If the lockbox outsells others by a large margin despite so many people being against it, well, to play devil's advocate here, that might be what the game needs. More money going into development.
I'm also kinda cautious about what this could mean for the future of the game and that this could set a bad precedent for the people who don't want to spend money, but I'll wait to make my decision on this once it goes live and if it ends up being cost-prohibitive (both in-game cost and real-money cost). I believe it's too early to judge.
River: Do you think it might be more than 4 if the forum transition hadn't been..well..like this? I know of people who can't even use these poorly cobbled together hideous looking things. IMO, it is something to consider.
Of course they could also do playerbase polling or just go observe ingame(multiple times for timezones and such).
The only players who are able to use this are the players who have already paid to get their freeform characters to access all powers. This won't be available to Archetypes, generally anyone who doesn't have a freeform.
The demographic that this is intended for sincerely does not exist. Are all the items in lockboxes designed for everyone to use no matter the state of their account?
What will happen when a player who put in money for a subscription to get access to all powers in the game finds out that they need to spend more money to get another power not mentioned in the description of what freeform is?
Players are already buying keys. If you are doing this because numbers are dropping, the customers can tell you why:
There are no more new Becomes that are of C Store quality (minus the Destroid Command Leader Robot).
There are no more Auras that drop at a mid level rate.
There are too many temporary consumables taking up too many chances to get the good items.
The reason why your sales may be dropping might be because it is taking too many keys to get the unique items and the quality of those items are becoming increasingly worse.
Let's all keep in mind that Cryptic have tried things before
Yea, and every time they tried it, and it didn't go over well, instead of fixing it lately, like they use to in the early days, they let it sit and we lose more people.
I dunno, Spar, in the "early days" they kinda abandoned things to rot as well. This is beginning to, and I loathe to type this honestly, look like "Because Cryptic."
But, as usual, I would absolutely love for them to prove me wrong. I would welcome it.
River: Do you think it might be more than 4 if the forum transition hadn't been..well..like this? I know of people who can't even use these poorly cobbled together hideous looking things. IMO, it is something to consider.
Of course they could also do playerbase polling or just go observe ingame(multiple times for timezones and such).
I agree the forums are awful. I'm also sure you are right - no one uses them anymore post Vanilla. So there won't be many complaints posted here.
But I hate to be a fatalist but this is a done deal. The very fact that a Dev Blog was posted to announce this pretty much means there's no going back.
Like I said.. my guess is someone looked at how successful the lockbox traits were on STO and suggested doing the same in CO.
I also think it's going to give Cryptic an increase in Key sales. From both people willing to lockbox gamble and those wishing to sell keys to get in-game currency in order to buy the new power on the exchange.
Cryptic knows this - which is why the power is a tradeable token..just like lockbox traits in STO. I know this sucks and seems unfair to many of us. But there is no way this isn't going to happen. The lockbox is designed, announcements were made, and Cryptic is full on ready to do this.
River: Do you think it might be more than 4 if the forum transition hadn't been..well..like this? I know of people who can't even use these poorly cobbled together hideous looking things. IMO, it is something to consider.
Of course they could also do playerbase polling or just go observe ingame(multiple times for timezones and such).
Like I said.. my guess is someone looked at how successful the lockbox traits were on STO and suggested doing the same in CO.
...
Cryptic knows this - which is why the power is a tradable token..just like lockbox traits in STO. I know this sucks and seems unfair to many of us. But there is no way this isn't going to happen. The lockbox is designed, announcements were made, and Cryptic is full on ready to do this.
But you cannot compare the lockbox success of STO to CO. Not unless you eliminate the dramatic differences between the contents of the box and the content made along side it. STO gets playable content, features and items (at no charge) on a regular basis to compliment their lockboxes and store items. In CO lockboxes and store items is just about all we get.
As of now, players are paying for their items in the stores and for the lock boxes, and not getting anything new to do with them.
How many more series of lockboxes must be bought and how many more months of subscriptions must players maintain until there is enough to make playable content?
The business models of both games in regards to monetization are the exact same. The development cycle for both games are not. So what is the deciding factor for one failing over the other? Its certainly not name brand, because the brand brings them in, the customers sees the other products, and then the content keeps them there on both platforms.
I'm fine with this. I would much rather have a chance of getting this power via a lockbox (which you don't have to spend actual money to open, Cosmic Keys being available with Gold account Zen stipends or through in-game currency) or AH trade, than through the tedious grind of playing elements of Adventure Packs over and over (Dark Speed) or having to level up a half-finished AT (Rocket Punch). It's not a must-have power, so anyone who doesn't want it can safely ignore it.
As to the "thin end of the wedge"... if they've got to monetise the things they spend Dev time on, then so be it.
I dunno, Spar, in the "early days" they kinda abandoned things to rot as well. This is beginning to, and I loathe to type this honestly, look like "Because Cryptic."
But, as usual, I would absolutely love for them to prove me wrong. I would welcome it.
Back before Comic Series, Back before Adventure packs, even as far back as during Vibora Bay development and before then, Cryptic actually put effort into updating things and adding new content to fill the gulfs. When the cry that the leveling content was too shallow they actually added more missions. When Vibora Bay would have issues they would actually try to fix them. When the cars would break and form conga lines they would actually do something about it and find out why. When issues cropped up during the first blood moon they actually tried to resolve them there instead of waiting for the next event. After Vibora Bay and the start of the First Adventure series, is when they started the give up train of development. Start a project, and never finish it.
Cryptic has become less about creating worlds and distinct games and more about ways to just milk money out of their players.
Problem is: People are already unsubbing due to the fact that this power is in a lockbox.
Really? Like who?
Or is this another one of those unsubstantiated "this is gonna KILL the game! DOOM DOOM!!" cries that happens every time something changes? Because it kind of sounds like the latter. I certainly don't know anyone who's unsubbed over this silliness, any more than I know anyone who actually dropped their sub when lockboxes first came into play, or when Vehicles became a thing, or when Blood Moons stopped happening every full moon, or - well, insert change here.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yea because noticing less and less people on everyday is definitely not a sure sign that people are leaving. Or noticing that Champions use to field 3 nearly full MC's at one time before hand, and now barely fills two is definitely not a sure sign of that either.
Except those days of "three full MC's" are about two or three years gone by now. Really the traffic I "notice" has been pretty much the same since I joined up in Dec. '12. It might go up or down a little due to events, but this "mass exodus" that keeps getting claimed really hasn't got a leg to stand on.
River is likely correct...the discussion on this will more than likely be one sided and result in nothing....but if there is a sliver of a chance someone could see and alter this course then I had to throw my hat in on that chance.
As for Spar, while some of what you say is true about the attempts to make more timely repairs the majority of what you mentioned was mostly completed things from prior to launch, correct? If I am recalling correctly Vibora Bay, Bloodmoon, Winter, Nemesis Confrontation, and Zombie Apocalypse were even admitted to having been completed prior to launch as a buffer/springboard for the future(minus testing and tweaks, of course). IMO the 1st big hit was the "STO Vacation" in December 2009 but even then things only slowed down....and slowed down....and slowed down....and the "NW Vacation" happened...and so on and so on and we mostly all know the story.
So, for me and kinda switching gears, it becomes the age old repeated question of time. How long does it take "New" Old Cryptic to get their feet wet and push out the "BIG" 2015 thing(since the schedule would suggest one big thing a year at least...right?). Is it actually going to be "BIG"? Is it going to make up for alot of this year? I know alot of these questions can be personal opinion but what are those opinions?
They're a business, I get that. They want profits, ok. They say CO is operating in the black and has been for quite some time likely due to reduced operational costs being in a family of games. So...is there ever a profit line which causes reinvestment to get us onto something like a seasonal schedule like STO has(even if it's less frequent)? Is there ever a point where all the loyal vets who have said stuff like,"Just buy X and show your support for the game and it's future"....get some future? That line has been making the rounds here for years.
Also, because I'm longwinded, I'm playing "Another Game" atm because I've been on the road alot this year with work assignments. This game is also pretty small. Their big thing for the 4th of July was to make a bundle with what would basically translate into...
-1 Character Slot
-5 Costume Unlocks(2 of which are America Themed, of course)
-1 Archetype(to go with the above)
-6 MONTHS of Double XP and Globals for your account(and they do codes for 1-3 days of this alot too)
....for 7.99 US
The chat I'm reading right now is people from other countries who don't even care about "USA Patriotism" saying,"I bought it because it's a good deal and came with the slot and double XP." This game recently did a quite "unpopular" patch which made large changes....and even the Rage/Doom Crowd are playing and bought this deal.
Yea because noticing less and less people on everyday is definitely not a sure sign that people are leaving. Or noticing that Champions use to field 3 nearly full MC's at one time before hand, and now barely fills two is definitely not a sure sign of that either.
Are you saying that since this news broke today you've already noticed "less and less people on everyday"? Because if this post is in response to Jon, that's pretty literally what you're saying, and I think that's goofy.
Except those days of "three full MC's" are about two or three years gone by now. Really the traffic I "notice" has been pretty much the same since I joined up in Dec. '12. It might go up or down a little due to events, but this "mass exodus" that keeps getting claimed really hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Just barely hitting two years, as reloaded, as much as many of us would love to put that mess behind us, wasn't all that long ago, and even now the instances are still losing players. And it isn't because people are doing missions or people are hiding in their hide outs or club caprice or any other hokey thing that can be stated. Its' because people aren't playing anymore.
And why do you think people left to begin with? The constant focus on gambling boxes, and putting the things we always want, like good costumes and powers, in them, and never using that money to reinvest in Champions. If you think people aren't going to get upset over this, when new powers and power sets have been clamored for for years, and drive yet another nail in the coffin lid, then there is no hope left for this game.
Yea because noticing less and less people on everyday is definitely not a sure sign that people are leaving. Or noticing that Champions use to field 3 nearly full MC's at one time before hand, and now barely fills two is definitely not a sure sign of that either.
Are you saying that since this news broke today you've already noticed "less and less people on everyday"? Because if this post is in response to Jon, that's pretty literally what you're saying, and I think that's goofy.
No, I won't be surprised if less people are playing after this. But I will keep tabs on it.
So, for me and kinda switching gears, it becomes the age old repeated question of time. How long does it take "New" Old Cryptic to get their feet wet and push out the "BIG" 2015 thing(since the schedule would suggest one big thing a year at least...right?). Is it actually going to be "BIG"? Is it going to make up for alot of this year? I know alot of these questions can be personal opinion but what are those opinions?
The word BIG should never be associated with what Steel Crusade was. A reskin and 4 whole soloable missions that ended up feeling too grindy than playable.
Except those days of "three full MC's" are about two or three years gone by now. Really the traffic I "notice" has been pretty much the same since I joined up in Dec. '12. It might go up or down a little due to events, but this "mass exodus" that keeps getting claimed really hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Just barely hitting two years, as reloaded, as much as many of us would love to put that mess behind us, wasn't all that long ago, and even now the instances are still losing players. And it isn't because people are doing missions or people are hiding in their hide outs or club caprice or any other hokey thing that can be stated. Its' because people aren't playing anymore.
And why do you think people left to begin with? The constant focus on gambling boxes, and putting the things we always want, like good costumes and powers, in them, and never using that money to reinvest in Champions. If you think people aren't going to get upset over this, when new powers and power sets have been clamored for for years, and drive yet another nail in the coffin lid, then there is no hope left for this game.
People have been leaving the game for years. It's not because of lockboxes. Lockboxes are a measure put in place to make more revenue because of people leaving. The game started off pretty good, they were adding content, people were leaving. They added more content, more costumes, more C Store stuff, people were still leaving. They tried and tried and tried, people still left. Then they made the game free. Don't act like adding lockboxes is the reason for people leaving. They're the reason for the game still running.
Also, the "never using that money to reinvest in Champions" thing has never been proven. It may be true, it might not be, but don't base your argument on figments of disgruntled player imaginations.
People leave MMOs with time. It's the nature of the beast (except for the obvious exception that NO MMO matches). Expecting that NOT to happen to an old game with outdated graphics is ludicrous. For an MMO to be as stable as this one at this date is a little unusual, I think.
I agree this is a bad move. A lockbox with a reward only usable by a Free Form is not a good idea. Most FF's are Gold/LTS. They've paid. Now they have to pay again for something that should be already available to them?
I'm one of the many players who will not gamble with lockboxes. I only open a box to get my Lockbox ticket punched for a Series reward as it's a known reward for a known expense.
You know what is quite an amazing statement? When a thread is filled with a bunch of forum users with dramatically different points of views with how the game should be, who don't ever agree on anything with each other ever, come out and say that this is a bad idea.
It probably is, but you won't convince them by this. Only thing that will do it is if key sales drop dramatically with this next lockbox. Otherwise they're not going to care about our opinions. Money talks.
It probably is, but you won't convince them by this. Only thing that will do it is if key sales drop dramatically with this next lockbox. Otherwise they're not going to care about our opinions. Money talks.
This is the real, hard proof. Show it, boys and girls!
I heard about the Rumors that It will be, in fact, a Lockbox Drop Power and I wanted believe it's a Lie but on the other hand i knew that PWE/CRYPTIC would do that!
We reached a new Level of LOW here, Bottom Low, this is just pathetic, I understands locking costumes behind lockboxes but now locking powers (which apparently already existed in the code)
ANOTHER thing that I'm afraid of is Bait-and-Switch, What if they NERF this power to the ground, making it useless, after many many many people have already bought it or wasted millions of keys to find it (See also Vehicle Plasma Beam)
I'm sure the Power Token will hit AH in a Inhuman Price
Such a shame, I had no interest in this power UNTIL i saw TheRavenForce's screenshots of it, Pretty Visuals and I have spellcaster character(s) that could use it for theme
At least it's not Account Bind token, if they did that that would just plain Pathetic Cash In
Also no Buff for the already existed ULTIMATES which don't live up for their Tier (except of Unleshed Rage, it's the only Ultimate FEELS like an Ultimates, DAMAGE like an Ultimate and WORKS as an Ultimate)
But this has been CO way of thinking, Creating new powers and don't give a **** about Buffing old powers
Now let's wait another Year until we get another power, Seem the Reawakened AT project is Dead, the Automaton was the First and the Last and sinked like the Titanic
But I would prefer Reawakened AT Instead of this Cash Grab
God, it Hurts to use the Vanilla forum So much
PS: If in the future we get other powers that exist in the code in Lockboxes, specifically Quantum Stabilizer the Particle damage passive for Laser Swords I will Rage to the point of meltdown because I had been waiting for that passive since the release of the 3 pathetic gimmicky Laser Sword powers for my Laser Sword character
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
*See's Lockbox Hit live*
*See's people squabble to add New Ultimate to power builds*
*See's further despair in build diversity*
*Cryptic's Masters Sits back and laughs manically, cause Business*
*CO falls into greater neglect, Cryptic's masters win & Sips tea*
RIP Progress.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Decorum: I wish you were wrong...but you probably nailed it too.
Avianos: Please don't use the BnS words...they draw the Bitter Coxers like moths to a flame. Also, if it's a crap power then people will complain. If it's OP then people will cry P2Win. If it's OP and they balance it....well, you see where this is heading. IMO, it's Lose/Lose/Lose.
rtma: Characterizing the Devs/Cryptic as Mr. Burns really accomplishes nothing at all.
Then a deep sigh as the lockbox is cranked open so the power can be obtained and piled on the auction house for quick ingame profit ensuring we get more of this.
All hail joy of powers behind RNG gamble box that disappear leaving new users or those who miss out, out in the cold. (*Couch yeh what new users, this will turn them right around)
People are Unsubbing/Quitting because they are smart enough, The game gets no new contest and Cryptic keep insulting the player's Intelligent with locking stuff in Lockboxes.
CO have already lost it's BIG Financial WHALEs
PWE/Cryptic loves your Money after all
Consider the GAP between Playerbase and DEVs, I doupt Cryptic will aknowledge all those Negative feebacks, there is no turning back now, the power will be exlusive for lockboxes
as for Suggestions and Feedbacks, into the Trashcan and the Paper Shredder Machine they go
[This post will also go intto the Trash Can]
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Comments
That might make it quite affordable on auction. I don't think there will be any outrage once it sets in for a week.
I think it's terrible, an effing awful idea. So much for getting access to powers by paying for a gold subsciption or a LTS.
*shakes head*
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I dunno about the economic stature this will have. But this isn't about money at this point. It's about the downright cruel disregard Cryptic and PWE has had for CO as of late. Ever since we were moved back to Los Gatos, I had expected some good things to happen... maybe the state of the game could turn around, you know? The way Variable Robot has handled, all the bugs introduced SINCE the return that haven't gotten fixed in spite of Cryptic "knowing" about them, and now they're doing this? Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. They'd make great politicians, and that's no compliment.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This is something worth quitting over.
This should be protested loudly and clearly. I will personally spend not another dollar on the game while this practice is continued.
When I first heard that it was going to be in a lockbox, I was very concerned. However...upon READING the blog post concerning this power:
Please pay attention to the "It comes as a token that can be either CONSUMED, or TRADED/SOLD to other players."
This has dispelled my concerns about it as I thought it would be an untradeable token. Since this isn't the case...I have no issue with what they are doing for this specific power.
There was nothing to suggest they will be producing new powers and locking them behind lockboxes, if this does become a fashion...then I can see a potential issue, if they do this to something which is highly anticipated.
Most people don't even know what Gravity Driver IS, let alone that it was in the works.
Why do I not have an issue with what they are doing?
Much like when Rocket Fist and The Automaton AT were released...people hated that AT and not everyone in CO was in a mad scramble for Rocket Fist, I certainly was not and I still don't have it unlocked. Why? Because I don't have a use for it.
In a similar manner, not everyone in CO will have use conceptually or build wise for Gravity Driver, so whilst unlocking it for all would be the usual method, since it is not in high demand, I don't see why this is an issue.
Unless everyone in CO wants to use this power (highly unlikely), I don't have an issue unlocking it this way. What I do know is that all the extra tradable tokens that I do get will be going to other players for free, I have no desire to benefit from selling ultimate powers.
As for who it is accessible to...Gold players receive a stipend and have the ability to farm for Q which can be turned into Zen which can be used to purchase Keys, which open lockboxes.
Usually in the first week of a new box...there is mass openings and Gravity Driver Tokens will probably be put on the market for stupid amounts but with time and with enough saturation they'll drop in price and eventually anyone who wants it will be able to afford it. That's how things work with lockbox items.
The only issue, one which another player brought up is of "What happens when the lockbox is out of rotation". That is one issue I am concerned about. I feel as if after this lockbox has run its course, the Gravity Driver Token could be added to the Q store for a reasonable amount.
EDIT: I am in no way saying that I endorse this becoming a regular or done "thing" when it comes to powers. I do feel that power sets should be available to everyone and as of right now, there is nothing to suggest they will try locking new powersets behind lockboxes. If they do then, in my eyes there is a large problem.
Much like the July ShaolinReady emote instead of costume unlock, they seem to be trying new things.
Having said that, if singular & very rare additions to powersets come along in future, I feel like they should be either unlocked like this or conventionally.
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I have no use for some mods which come out of boxes...yet other people do. I don't need Legion Gear anymore as my toons are geared, yet I still get it from boxes.
If a silver player gets a Gravity Driver Token...well, they have a chance to cash in on people who want that token. Simple.
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While all your points are valid and well made, I believe the primary point at issue is the precedent this sets more than anything else.
Today a token for an Ultimate unlock. Tomorrow entire new power sets, all new costume sets, access to new zones, etc. While it isn't likely we will ever have the developer resources for the latter examples, the point still stands. This is how it begins.
Gravity Driver, to my knowledge is not being added to The Impulse AT, so it is effectively a Gold Only power (with the exception of Silvers with an FF slot).
Silvers with an FF slot would be able to use Gravity Driver tokens for themselves as well as the ability to sell them on.
Having made the points I made earlier....
I cannot deny that this is a very worrying thought and I know I'd feel bad if it did go this way and I'd end up leaving probably.
I like to think this is a one time thing, but if there is an overwhelming scramble and money is made...well, there's nothing but player's word to stop this from happening again.
As for Gravity Driver...it has already been announced as being in a lockbox...so I'm going to say that's already spoken for and perhaps a better course of action would be to discuss BETTER and more accessible ways to unlock power in Champions Online, be it through the completion of a specific chain of missions, acquiring X amount of perk points etc, something like that in order to allow players to EARN the power/powers outside of boxes.
Admittedly because of my strong like for this power, I'm eager to see it fixed and in my hands, so whilst I think Gravity Driver will still remain in a lockbox as a token unlock...players could discuss ways in the future to unlock singluar powers like this, so this anger and disappointment doesn't happen all over again.
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Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I hate to say it.. but if STO is any precedent (*see lockbox traits) expect more lockbox powers. And I bet the pressure to make it happen is coming from the parent company. The sad fact is folks putting a power in a lockbox is going to be profitable (*again check out lockbox traits in STO).
Lockbox powers are coming to Champions. There is not much you can do about it. The protest of 4 people on the forum will not outweigh the money they will make from doing this. Just thank your lucky stars they can be traded in AH.
I'm also kinda cautious about what this could mean for the future of the game and that this could set a bad precedent for the people who don't want to spend money, but I'll wait to make my decision on this once it goes live and if it ends up being cost-prohibitive (both in-game cost and real-money cost). I believe it's too early to judge.
Of course they could also do playerbase polling or just go observe ingame(multiple times for timezones and such).
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
The demographic that this is intended for sincerely does not exist. Are all the items in lockboxes designed for everyone to use no matter the state of their account?
What will happen when a player who put in money for a subscription to get access to all powers in the game finds out that they need to spend more money to get another power not mentioned in the description of what freeform is?
Players are already buying keys. If you are doing this because numbers are dropping, the customers can tell you why:
There are no more new Becomes that are of C Store quality (minus the Destroid Command Leader Robot).
There are no more Auras that drop at a mid level rate.
There are too many temporary consumables taking up too many chances to get the good items.
The reason why your sales may be dropping might be because it is taking too many keys to get the unique items and the quality of those items are becoming increasingly worse.
Yea, and every time they tried it, and it didn't go over well, instead of fixing it lately, like they use to in the early days, they let it sit and we lose more people.
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But, as usual, I would absolutely love for them to prove me wrong. I would welcome it.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I agree the forums are awful. I'm also sure you are right - no one uses them anymore post Vanilla. So there won't be many complaints posted here.
But I hate to be a fatalist but this is a done deal. The very fact that a Dev Blog was posted to announce this pretty much means there's no going back.
Like I said.. my guess is someone looked at how successful the lockbox traits were on STO and suggested doing the same in CO.
I also think it's going to give Cryptic an increase in Key sales. From both people willing to lockbox gamble and those wishing to sell keys to get in-game currency in order to buy the new power on the exchange.
Cryptic knows this - which is why the power is a tradeable token..just like lockbox traits in STO. I know this sucks and seems unfair to many of us. But there is no way this isn't going to happen. The lockbox is designed, announcements were made, and Cryptic is full on ready to do this.
But you cannot compare the lockbox success of STO to CO. Not unless you eliminate the dramatic differences between the contents of the box and the content made along side it. STO gets playable content, features and items (at no charge) on a regular basis to compliment their lockboxes and store items. In CO lockboxes and store items is just about all we get.
As of now, players are paying for their items in the stores and for the lock boxes, and not getting anything new to do with them.
How many more series of lockboxes must be bought and how many more months of subscriptions must players maintain until there is enough to make playable content?
The business models of both games in regards to monetization are the exact same. The development cycle for both games are not. So what is the deciding factor for one failing over the other? Its certainly not name brand, because the brand brings them in, the customers sees the other products, and then the content keeps them there on both platforms.
As to the "thin end of the wedge"... if they've got to monetise the things they spend Dev time on, then so be it.
Back before Comic Series, Back before Adventure packs, even as far back as during Vibora Bay development and before then, Cryptic actually put effort into updating things and adding new content to fill the gulfs. When the cry that the leveling content was too shallow they actually added more missions. When Vibora Bay would have issues they would actually try to fix them. When the cars would break and form conga lines they would actually do something about it and find out why. When issues cropped up during the first blood moon they actually tried to resolve them there instead of waiting for the next event. After Vibora Bay and the start of the First Adventure series, is when they started the give up train of development. Start a project, and never finish it.
Cryptic has become less about creating worlds and distinct games and more about ways to just milk money out of their players.
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Or is this another one of those unsubstantiated "this is gonna KILL the game! DOOM DOOM!!" cries that happens every time something changes? Because it kind of sounds like the latter. I certainly don't know anyone who's unsubbed over this silliness, any more than I know anyone who actually dropped their sub when lockboxes first came into play, or when Vehicles became a thing, or when Blood Moons stopped happening every full moon, or - well, insert change here.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Yea because noticing less and less people on everyday is definitely not a sure sign that people are leaving. Or noticing that Champions use to field 3 nearly full MC's at one time before hand, and now barely fills two is definitely not a sure sign of that either.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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As for Spar, while some of what you say is true about the attempts to make more timely repairs the majority of what you mentioned was mostly completed things from prior to launch, correct? If I am recalling correctly Vibora Bay, Bloodmoon, Winter, Nemesis Confrontation, and Zombie Apocalypse were even admitted to having been completed prior to launch as a buffer/springboard for the future(minus testing and tweaks, of course). IMO the 1st big hit was the "STO Vacation" in December 2009 but even then things only slowed down....and slowed down....and slowed down....and the "NW Vacation" happened...and so on and so on and we mostly all know the story.
So, for me and kinda switching gears, it becomes the age old repeated question of time. How long does it take "New" Old Cryptic to get their feet wet and push out the "BIG" 2015 thing(since the schedule would suggest one big thing a year at least...right?). Is it actually going to be "BIG"? Is it going to make up for alot of this year? I know alot of these questions can be personal opinion but what are those opinions?
They're a business, I get that. They want profits, ok. They say CO is operating in the black and has been for quite some time likely due to reduced operational costs being in a family of games. So...is there ever a profit line which causes reinvestment to get us onto something like a seasonal schedule like STO has(even if it's less frequent)? Is there ever a point where all the loyal vets who have said stuff like,"Just buy X and show your support for the game and it's future"....get some future? That line has been making the rounds here for years.
Also, because I'm longwinded, I'm playing "Another Game" atm because I've been on the road alot this year with work assignments. This game is also pretty small. Their big thing for the 4th of July was to make a bundle with what would basically translate into...
-1 Character Slot
-5 Costume Unlocks(2 of which are America Themed, of course)
-1 Archetype(to go with the above)
-6 MONTHS of Double XP and Globals for your account(and they do codes for 1-3 days of this alot too)
....for 7.99 US
The chat I'm reading right now is people from other countries who don't even care about "USA Patriotism" saying,"I bought it because it's a good deal and came with the slot and double XP." This game recently did a quite "unpopular" patch which made large changes....and even the Rage/Doom Crowd are playing and bought this deal.
Kinda makes ya think, doesn't it?
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Are you saying that since this news broke today you've already noticed "less and less people on everyday"? Because if this post is in response to Jon, that's pretty literally what you're saying, and I think that's goofy.
Just barely hitting two years, as reloaded, as much as many of us would love to put that mess behind us, wasn't all that long ago, and even now the instances are still losing players. And it isn't because people are doing missions or people are hiding in their hide outs or club caprice or any other hokey thing that can be stated. Its' because people aren't playing anymore.
And why do you think people left to begin with? The constant focus on gambling boxes, and putting the things we always want, like good costumes and powers, in them, and never using that money to reinvest in Champions. If you think people aren't going to get upset over this, when new powers and power sets have been clamored for for years, and drive yet another nail in the coffin lid, then there is no hope left for this game.
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No, I won't be surprised if less people are playing after this. But I will keep tabs on it.
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The word BIG should never be associated with what Steel Crusade was. A reskin and 4 whole soloable missions that ended up feeling too grindy than playable.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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People have been leaving the game for years. It's not because of lockboxes. Lockboxes are a measure put in place to make more revenue because of people leaving. The game started off pretty good, they were adding content, people were leaving. They added more content, more costumes, more C Store stuff, people were still leaving. They tried and tried and tried, people still left. Then they made the game free. Don't act like adding lockboxes is the reason for people leaving. They're the reason for the game still running.
Also, the "never using that money to reinvest in Champions" thing has never been proven. It may be true, it might not be, but don't base your argument on figments of disgruntled player imaginations.
I'm one of the many players who will not gamble with lockboxes. I only open a box to get my Lockbox ticket punched for a Series reward as it's a known reward for a known expense.
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This is the real, hard proof. Show it, boys and girls!
We reached a new Level of LOW here, Bottom Low, this is just pathetic, I understands locking costumes behind lockboxes but now locking powers (which apparently already existed in the code)
ANOTHER thing that I'm afraid of is Bait-and-Switch, What if they NERF this power to the ground, making it useless, after many many many people have already bought it or wasted millions of keys to find it (See also Vehicle Plasma Beam)
I'm sure the Power Token will hit AH in a Inhuman Price
Such a shame, I had no interest in this power UNTIL i saw TheRavenForce's screenshots of it, Pretty Visuals and I have spellcaster character(s) that could use it for theme
At least it's not Account Bind token, if they did that that would just plain Pathetic Cash In
Also no Buff for the already existed ULTIMATES which don't live up for their Tier (except of Unleshed Rage, it's the only Ultimate FEELS like an Ultimates, DAMAGE like an Ultimate and WORKS as an Ultimate)
But this has been CO way of thinking, Creating new powers and don't give a **** about Buffing old powers
Now let's wait another Year until we get another power, Seem the Reawakened AT project is Dead, the Automaton was the First and the Last and sinked like the Titanic
But I would prefer Reawakened AT Instead of this Cash Grab
God, it Hurts to use the Vanilla forum So much
PS: If in the future we get other powers that exist in the code in Lockboxes, specifically Quantum Stabilizer the Particle damage passive for Laser Swords I will Rage to the point of meltdown because I had been waiting for that passive since the release of the 3 pathetic gimmicky Laser Sword powers for my Laser Sword character
*See's people squabble to add New Ultimate to power builds*
*See's further despair in build diversity*
*Cryptic's Masters Sits back and laughs manically, cause Business*
*CO falls into greater neglect, Cryptic's masters win & Sips tea*
RIP Progress.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Decorum: I wish you were wrong...but you probably nailed it too.
Avianos: Please don't use the BnS words...they draw the Bitter Coxers like moths to a flame. Also, if it's a crap power then people will complain. If it's OP then people will cry P2Win. If it's OP and they balance it....well, you see where this is heading. IMO, it's Lose/Lose/Lose.
rtma: Characterizing the Devs/Cryptic as Mr. Burns really accomplishes nothing at all.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Just get it on.
I don't really care.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Ooooh. Thanks for the gay erotica, Finn.
(tee hee)
Honestly, though, I feel about the same way. This will be fun discussion to have, but Cryptic has already made the decision.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I hate you because I can't stop taking the bait to see if you've actually put something new in your siggy.
Then a deep sigh as the lockbox is cranked open so the power can be obtained and piled on the auction house for quick ingame profit ensuring we get more of this.
All hail joy of powers behind RNG gamble box that disappear leaving new users or those who miss out, out in the cold. (*Couch yeh what new users, this will turn them right around)
CO have already lost it's BIG Financial WHALEs
PWE/Cryptic loves your Money after all
Consider the GAP between Playerbase and DEVs, I doupt Cryptic will aknowledge all those Negative feebacks, there is no turning back now, the power will be exlusive for lockboxes
as for Suggestions and Feedbacks, into the Trashcan and the Paper Shredder Machine they go
[This post will also go intto the Trash Can]