I see business as business. I see customer dissatisfaction as an effective tool. Notice how the Arkham Knight got pulled from Steam until it was fixed because the PC port was so God-Awful? That's an example of how effective as it is. The people that ported that game and put it up for sale weren't 'evil'. They were businessmen, trying to make a quick buck. News flash: People who are trying to make money will generally do what they can get away with, until someone calls them out on it and lights a fire.
Batman: Arkham Knight for PC was recalled because the bonfires were so bright, Gawker and Vox couldn't miss them. Consumer outrage only goes so far; it takes the media to really put the screws to a corporation. Unfortunately, the mainstream gaming sites don't care about MMOs not named World of Warcraft (unless somebody pulls a Squeenix and releases an OS X port so awful, it has to be recalled), and MassivelyOP won't make anything more than snarky little asides about the state of CO because they're scared that if they stop pulling their punches, Cryptic will stop giving them exclusives on STO and NW.
So let's step back and take an inventory:
City of Heroes: Superhero-dead, and if NCSoft doesn't spare a lawyer from Nexon's takeover bids long enough to resume negotiations with Nate Downes and the Plan Z guys, it'll be Uncle Ben-dead.
DC Universe Online: Still City of Sidekicks, still doesn't get what made CoH great, still plays like a console port.
Marvel Heroes: An ARPG with a MOBA roster. It's a delicious orange, but it's not an apple.
Valiance Online: No hint of lore, no hint of a combat system (or a crafting system, or a player housing system, or any system), but they've made somebody else's fantasy engine into an interesting tech demo in a shoddy Statesman cosplay outfit.
City of Titans: Discovering how difficult it was for Cryptic to get CoH off the ground all those years ago, but because they Kickstarted it, they have to make the sausage in front a public that somehow expects an MMO of AAA ambitions to be completed in code-jam time.
Champions Online: The present hell. Last seen firing a tightrope between Pay-To-Win Canyon and praying for no crosswinds.
My nephew leveled a couple of toons to 40 about three years ago. We were at the 4th of July family cookout this weekend, and he asked me about how the game was doing today, and I'll tell you what I told him: CO is still running because Cryptic would never live down the shame of shutting it down without somewhere else for us to go.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I don't know what Cryptic you know, but the one I've dealt with for nine years has no shame of that nature, nor should they. If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
I don't really see how the Arkham Knight situation is even comparable since it has to do with the game being unplayable during crucial batmobile parts with the freeze-ups and just downright performing horribly even on high-end rigs. CO with its bugs and less-than-stellar optimization doesn't even compare to that cluster****.
There also hasn't been a single instance of mass refunds with CO that is publicly known to us so far that has happened with Arkham Knight to really push WB / Rocksteady to do some major damage control. If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told, I think everything with the game is okay? Is that what you're inferring? I'm laughing at the irony. I post my opinion, and you accuse me of trying to invalidate yours. But your retorts to my opinions is that I'm trying too hard. Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter. Some awesome pot-kettle action you have going there.
If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
Yeah. It's happened before, and it'll happen again if the way they implement this turns out to be unpopular and doesn't make enough money.
My guess, and fear, is that it will make them enough money to want to continue it, but at a lower drop rate so people will have to buy more boxes for it. The only way I'm good with this is if it's a decent drop rate and it stays that way. I hope PTS testing starts off good, at least.
I don't get why people who don't play the game use the forums and are more vocal than people who do.
Either way...I will still get the item. It will probably be in my inventory while I am aiming for something else. Oh and *DOOM DOOM DOOM!*, i'm over it already.
I won't guess as to what the AH value of the power will be until its live, because Cryptic saying mid level rarity doesn't mean squat. Mid level rarity to them for all we know means 1/66 chance.
I can be completely for lockboxes and still be against powers in them simply because everything in them up to this point is cosmetic or has been rebalanced to be so. After all the fixes to make all vehicles balanced with the Mark II and Justice gear being acquirable in game, adding new powers into the lockbox is a step backward into this trap. Because its somehow retroactively not pay to win when they fix the issues of lockbox content two years later.
Cryptic has shown that they are fine with selling power in a lockbox because as soon as its proven too much, they will nerf things into uselessness and the customers will pay the cost.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told...
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
It's funny that you seem to be standing on a moral high ground when resorting to such a personal attack is far worse than anyone genuinely defending the powers-in-lockbox issue.
Oh, god. Just because I'm okay with this thing right now based on what we've been told...
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
Like my opinion is made up for the sake of, what? I'm not sure. Or it just doesn't matter.
All I'm saying is that you've typed an awful lot in this thread for someone who says they're okay with this development. I'd expect that kind of volume from someone stongly against it. It's more like you're defending it at this point, which is somewhat suspect, considering your association with Cryptic/PWE and position on these forums.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
You guys both seem to only be reading what you want to see. I completely have my reservations about this, yet you both think I'm white knighting just because I haven't flown into a rage about it.
Typing a lot about a subject doesn't mean anything. If typing was a laborious task then perhaps it would mean that I'm straining to really prove something to you guys but I'm hardly pushing a boulder uphill here. The only reason for my posting as much as I have is because I've seen things worth discussing. That's all. No big secrets here, just using a forum for discussions.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Lies! I know you've been getting special treatment and insider information from devs and also an extra 100 ZEN each time you praise them!
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
That's how I became the leader of the Cryptic Defense Force in STO - I refused to accept the idea that Delta Rising would cause the entire game to go under inside six months. If you're not with these people, you're against them, you know, and from their POV "discussion" means agreeing with everything they say and disagreement is "censorship".
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
And if Cryptic or PWE determined that the opportunity cost of keeping CO in (barely) active development, against reallocating the servers, bandwidth, and employees to STO, NW, and Super-Secret Project #4, was too high, it'd be gone, too.
There's been lot of cheap heat and dirty sniping going on in here lately over the perceived apathy of Cryptic toward CO. If that were really the case, we'd be talking about Maintenance Mode, not Cryptic moving development back to the home office and putting a veteran with deep experience in CO's foundations in charge. I would take issue with the instability that has come from stripping the dev team bare, shipping the game off to a satellite office, dealing with their growing pains, then shipping the game back to the home office. The past few months have demonstrated that it can wreak havoc on quality control. Those aren't the actions of a management that doesn't care if the game lives or dies, though.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I've been on a break but come to the forums to find this?
I agree with everyone who's saying that this cannot be allowed to take root.
I seriously need a new powerset to reinvigorate my interest in the game, but this isn't the way to go about it.
If we're going to start making Subs and LTS pay for new powers as well, at least give me the option to buy it outright if I so choose, not stick it in another Gawd awful lockbox regardless of how good the chances of getting it are.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Here are my calculated drop rates based on PTS data:
1500 lockboxes generated 44 Gravity Driver tokens, or about 2.9% drop rate
1500 lockboxes generated 33 costume sets, or about 2.3%
Seems like a low probability, until you compare with vehicle and legion drop rate:
1500 lockboxes, 24 legion kits, or about 1.6%
1500 lockboxes, 14 vehicles (two different colors), or about 0.93%
So yeah, that is medium probability, in the sense that it is the same probability as the weapon skin unlock, and lower probability than things like merc gear, Q crates, drifter crates (both with around 11% drop rates), and so on.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
Thanks for an official response, Mr. Cryptic
It does seem as if there could be future plans for this to be somewhat of a thing considering a new tab in the AH is being put in. Then again that could just be to clarify things, so...yeah.
All I know is that I'll have the Gravity Driver Token and hopefully (*glares at RNG*), I'll have some to spare.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
What a load of pr nonsense. There's nothing to keep an open mind about.
The bigger concern is the path you are taking the game down. Increasing prices in the C-store, while lowering the quality, and now stuffing overpowered powers into lockboxes.
Looks like the numbers are in. So what they call mid-rarity is more like "somewhere in the middle of the most rare items." Well, I definitely feel misled. So they'll probably be selling for 3000g or more first day, and fall to around 1000g a few weeks later.
Can't say I'm loving it, pretty sure I won't support it with money. Affordable to some but not all. Very lame.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button. Also, 'Mid-Range' means nothing when 39 of 40 bucks lands you R5 Enhancements and Resource boosts. You're asking us to 'keep an open mind', for... what? It's already obvious what this is, it sounds like you're telling us to just stop being outraged.
Sorry, Mr. Cryptic. You seem like a great guy, and you're just trying to do your job- I get it. But I must be fair and straightforward with you.
You want to give better value to someone? How about the lifetimers that dropped what some families pay in groceries for a month on your game because we had faith in it, or the people who still subscribe despite the lack of content this game has seen over the years (I got news for you, an emote recycled from a powerset's Passive ability is NOT 'value'). What about the 'value' you gave us when you acknowledged that some costumes were substandards, and you RAISED THE PRICES and even made the 'low value' costumes more expensive? How about the people who have been pleading to fix the absurd amount of bugs, many which are in the tailor AKA 'one of the two main selling points of CO'? What about the customers that come here and beg for you to provide some kind of feedback, some clues on what you plan to do with this game's future?
To be fair, when you guys do good- you do great. But right now, it looks like the priorities are not just backwards... but upside down and on fire.
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
For what it's worth, He's one of the originals that worked on this game (or somewhere thereabouts)
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button.
It's not an "OP Kill-button" at all in its current PTS state.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Yep, not only will this be all over the place given by the system, but prepare to get pm-spammed by hundreds for the one item you were (un)lucky enough to pull out regardless if they're just congratulating you or requesting a trade.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON NON NON NON!
WHY IS THIS GOING TO BE A FEATURE?
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
You claim to use feedback but the companies history keeps saying otherwise. (Look at the latest costume sets, the feedback for the variable robot set was mostly ignored and it looks nothing like the concept art that was submitted.)
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
How will you determine how this terrible idea works out? People will open the lockbox or buy keys to sell on the ah to buy one because they want the power. That doesn't mean they like the idea, people do things they don't like for things they want constantly.
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long. Eventually people will find other ways to get what they want with out doing what they don't want to do. If that means going someplace else, then that is what they will do.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Welp.
Now I know what straw is going to break this camel's back. Time to start saving costumes and preparing to uninstall, unless somebody with a gold title can explain to me what future development is going to justify how painful this summer has been around here.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long.
Short-term is the way business works these days, though.
To be fair, a friend of mine who is a producer and dev for another company predicted that CO would be run into the ground by PWE and closed in a year or two. So, from that perspective, the game has done quite well.
Still, this lockbox has the capacity to annoy or anger many of the veteran players left. I wonder what effects that will have. I guess we'll try it out and see what happens. Right, Arkayne?
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long.
Short-term is the way business works these days, though.
Successful businesses also have a long term plan in place. Sometimes made up of many short term plans, but those plans do eventually lead to something long term.
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long.
Short-term is the way business works these days, though.
Successful businesses also have a long term plan in place. Sometimes made up of many short term plans, but those plans do eventually lead to something long term.
But Champions is just one of several games. It possibly is just one of the short term plans now.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't.
Hey Arkayne, could I please get a clarification on this particular point? Does it mean If this doesn't go over well we won't be providing more powers or just powers delivered via lockboxes? It could, honestly, be taken either way.
Also, if this is the "Alternate Ultimate Power" then when does the Primary Force Ultimate Power show up? When I think of "Alternate" in these kinds of settings I'm expecting "A Copy of the power you have now with different graphics which has no actual bearing on the power balance of the game and is not P2Win." So...does this mean there's a "Gravity Bombardment(making up a name here)" which will be avaliable to Gold/LTS/Freeforms that just has different graphics?
Oh, and thanks for the communication. The effort is appreciated.
There also hasn't been a single instance of mass refunds with CO that is publicly known to us...
Acually....there was a brief time for LTS Refunds back in 2009. I know a few people who actually took advantage of it and, yeah, the majority of them no longer play(1 of them does rarely from time to time).
There's been lot of cheap heat and dirty sniping going on in here lately over the perceived apathy of Cryptic toward CO. If that were really the case, we'd be talking about Maintenance Mode, not Cryptic moving development back to the home office and putting a veteran with deep experience in CO's foundations in charge. I would take issue with the instability that has come from stripping the dev team bare, shipping the game off to a satellite office, dealing with their growing pains, then shipping the game back to the home office. The past few months have demonstrated that it can wreak havoc on quality control. Those aren't the actions of a management that doesn't care if the game lives or dies, though.
Well...
1. That "Veteran Team" is Arkayne(Original Dev), Splosions(On Alert Era Dev moves to NW and now back), Gadfly(Worked in ??? on STO), Totally new Costume Guy, and the occasional cameo by Crush(Lead Power Balance and PvP Dev for NW). There may be more....there may not.
2. Actually, the "Sattelite Office" had better Quality Control from my observatoins and, pure speculation on my part, that may very well be why we no longer have them around.
Now I know what straw is going to break this camel's back. Time to start saving costumes and preparing to uninstall, unless somebody with a gold title can explain to me what future development is going to justify how painful this summer has been around here.
I agree with this mostly. This type of bad news/ideas/practices might have been just a tad more palatable had it been sandwhiched on one side with a good 2015 track record and on the other with some kind of positive permanent content addition of a decent size/replayability. This is more like being asked to put your head on the chopping block and being told the executioner isn't going to behead you. He's just going to take a little practice swing to see how it would feel to decapitate you. Trust him...you'll be fine.
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
Ya know<sighs>, once upon a time I used to joke that Cryptic North were X-Pirates and they should go loot and plunder our neighbors because they had nice stuff we could use. This isn't one of those nice things. This is like hitting the beach, picking up the treasure chest, dumping out the treasure, and heading back to the ship because,"Hey, it's a very useful chest!" .....ughhhhh.
Considering all the bad jokes I've heard in CO over the last few years about this bad idea and that one and how now it seems to be turning into "Champions Online 2015: Who's Laughing Now?" in that regard because they're coming true...I'm getting to the point where I'm becoming apprehensive of humor in this game because...it could turn out to be true. I even had a joke thought up about a certain very bad idea they actually do in NW but....yeah...I'm not going to write that out now because it could, potentially, become a reality here.
If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
If it doesn't, the items involved will be lost forever and not become available in some other way.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
So what happens when having a new power goes over well but that it being in a lock box doesn't? You'll stop giving us new powers? Lock boxes not selling says that putting powers in them doesn't work. But what if its because the costume set in it sucks?
Isn't seeing subscriptions, freeform and archetype purchases enough to say that players like new powers? This is certainly more concrete information to how new powers effects the game. Isn't that enough to just add them to the game without having to buy an unlock to increase the quality of those purchases, to encourage players to keep maintaining those purchases?
Sneaky Addition to PTS - You turned on global notification of lockbox drops - hate hate hate this. With a single person opening boxes on pts it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation without turning off system channel in chat options. We also need the same ability STO has to filter these messages out (and the fly in text which is equally annoying and distracting).
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Also a device that's a Sonic Boom Generator reskin with a stun will be in the box. So not only powers limited in lockboxes but also new devices that should just be more powers added to the trainers.
They're very desperate to make this lock box work.
Comments
Batman: Arkham Knight for PC was recalled because the bonfires were so bright, Gawker and Vox couldn't miss them. Consumer outrage only goes so far; it takes the media to really put the screws to a corporation. Unfortunately, the mainstream gaming sites don't care about MMOs not named World of Warcraft (unless somebody pulls a Squeenix and releases an OS X port so awful, it has to be recalled), and MassivelyOP won't make anything more than snarky little asides about the state of CO because they're scared that if they stop pulling their punches, Cryptic will stop giving them exclusives on STO and NW.
So let's step back and take an inventory:
City of Heroes: Superhero-dead, and if NCSoft doesn't spare a lawyer from Nexon's takeover bids long enough to resume negotiations with Nate Downes and the Plan Z guys, it'll be Uncle Ben-dead.
DC Universe Online: Still City of Sidekicks, still doesn't get what made CoH great, still plays like a console port.
Marvel Heroes: An ARPG with a MOBA roster. It's a delicious orange, but it's not an apple.
Valiance Online: No hint of lore, no hint of a combat system (or a crafting system, or a player housing system, or any system), but they've made somebody else's fantasy engine into an interesting tech demo in a shoddy Statesman cosplay outfit.
City of Titans: Discovering how difficult it was for Cryptic to get CoH off the ground all those years ago, but because they Kickstarted it, they have to make the sausage in front a public that somehow expects an MMO of AAA ambitions to be completed in code-jam time.
Champions Online: The present hell. Last seen firing a tightrope between Pay-To-Win Canyon and praying for no crosswinds.
My nephew leveled a couple of toons to 40 about three years ago. We were at the 4th of July family cookout this weekend, and he asked me about how the game was doing today, and I'll tell you what I told him: CO is still running because Cryptic would never live down the shame of shutting it down without somewhere else for us to go.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
HAHAHAHA!
I don't know what Cryptic you know, but the one I've dealt with for nine years has no shame of that nature, nor should they. If this wasn't still making them money, however little, it'd be gone.
There also hasn't been a single instance of mass refunds with CO that is publicly known to us so far that has happened with Arkham Knight to really push WB / Rocksteady to do some major damage control. If for some reason after Gravity Driver they stop putting powers in lockboxes entirely then it'd be a sure-sign of it being a bad idea with the general game populace.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro
Seriously, stop trying so hard; we all get it.
For everyone else:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5c2YR1lVE
Yeah. It's happened before, and it'll happen again if the way they implement this turns out to be unpopular and doesn't make enough money.
My guess, and fear, is that it will make them enough money to want to continue it, but at a lower drop rate so people will have to buy more boxes for it. The only way I'm good with this is if it's a decent drop rate and it stays that way. I hope PTS testing starts off good, at least.
Either way...I will still get the item. It will probably be in my inventory while I am aiming for something else. Oh and *DOOM DOOM DOOM!*, i'm over it already.
I can be completely for lockboxes and still be against powers in them simply because everything in them up to this point is cosmetic or has been rebalanced to be so. After all the fixes to make all vehicles balanced with the Mark II and Justice gear being acquirable in game, adding new powers into the lockbox is a step backward into this trap. Because its somehow retroactively not pay to win when they fix the issues of lockbox content two years later.
Cryptic has shown that they are fine with selling power in a lockbox because as soon as its proven too much, they will nerf things into uselessness and the customers will pay the cost.
I keep trying to make it clear, being okay with this "Right Now" or "Until I see how bad it is" means that, at the point it IS implimented, it will be too late. It will be done, it will happen, and all we will be able to do is sit and say how bad it is. Nothing we can do will change it. And it will happen again, or if not- something similar to it will happen.
At this point, we should be demanding Cryptic show the drop rate. We should be demanding that they come forward and state whether or not this is a plan for implementing future powers. If they said 'we're only doing this once', I might be fine with it.
How you have any faith at all in this game's business practices is beyond me. We just saw them address the problem with poor quality costumes by going back and doubling the price of the better ones, and making the rest more expensive. Meanwhile, they can't bring themselves to fix the plethora of costume bugs we have in the first place.
CM's are allowed opinions, certainly, but a campaign as aggressive as yours has been makes you appear to be a shill.
Oh goodie, let's slander anyone who isn't on the Anti-Cryptic bandwagon as being a shill with ulterior motives.
It's funny that you seem to be standing on a moral high ground when resorting to such a personal attack is far worse than anyone genuinely defending the powers-in-lockbox issue.
You guys both seem to only be reading what you want to see. I completely have my reservations about this, yet you both think I'm white knighting just because I haven't flown into a rage about it.
Typing a lot about a subject doesn't mean anything. If typing was a laborious task then perhaps it would mean that I'm straining to really prove something to you guys but I'm hardly pushing a boulder uphill here. The only reason for my posting as much as I have is because I've seen things worth discussing. That's all. No big secrets here, just using a forum for discussions.
Also, you should know that my "association" with Cryptic/PWE goes no further than editing posts here and there for them. I'm not an employee. I don't get a commission for every pro-game post I make. There's no benefit for me to defend them and their decisions blindly.
Lies! I know you've been getting special treatment and insider information from devs and also an extra 100 ZEN each time you praise them!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The only sensible reply I can come up with for them at this point is:
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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And if Cryptic or PWE determined that the opportunity cost of keeping CO in (barely) active development, against reallocating the servers, bandwidth, and employees to STO, NW, and Super-Secret Project #4, was too high, it'd be gone, too.
There's been lot of cheap heat and dirty sniping going on in here lately over the perceived apathy of Cryptic toward CO. If that were really the case, we'd be talking about Maintenance Mode, not Cryptic moving development back to the home office and putting a veteran with deep experience in CO's foundations in charge. I would take issue with the instability that has come from stripping the dev team bare, shipping the game off to a satellite office, dealing with their growing pains, then shipping the game back to the home office. The past few months have demonstrated that it can wreak havoc on quality control. Those aren't the actions of a management that doesn't care if the game lives or dies, though.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I agree with everyone who's saying that this cannot be allowed to take root.
I seriously need a new powerset to reinvigorate my interest in the game, but this isn't the way to go about it.
If we're going to start making Subs and LTS pay for new powers as well, at least give me the option to buy it outright if I so choose, not stick it in another Gawd awful lockbox regardless of how good the chances of getting it are.
You're a lunatic with a mad man's dream of a milk proof robot!
___________________________________________________
I smiled.
Thanks for your feedback on the Gravity Driver. We understand there's some concern about putting powers in Lockboxes. Just keep in mind that including an alternate Ultimate Power in a lockbox is something we're just trying out to give better value to the people who invest in our lockboxes (as mentioned in the dev blog). We kept it mid-range rarity and tradeable, meaning there's going to be fairly accessible to get for anyone with Zen or Questionite. Overall, if you really want the power, it should be relatively easy to get with a little investment.
Give it a try. If it goes over well, we'll keep providing you more. If not, we won't. In the mean time, all we ask is to keep an open mind.
Thanks!
I've already invested- when I got my lifetime membership.
1500 lockboxes generated 44 Gravity Driver tokens, or about 2.9% drop rate
1500 lockboxes generated 33 costume sets, or about 2.3%
Seems like a low probability, until you compare with vehicle and legion drop rate:
1500 lockboxes, 24 legion kits, or about 1.6%
1500 lockboxes, 14 vehicles (two different colors), or about 0.93%
So yeah, that is medium probability, in the sense that it is the same probability as the weapon skin unlock, and lower probability than things like merc gear, Q crates, drifter crates (both with around 11% drop rates), and so on.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Thanks for an official response, Mr. Cryptic
It does seem as if there could be future plans for this to be somewhat of a thing considering a new tab in the AH is being put in. Then again that could just be to clarify things, so...yeah.
All I know is that I'll have the Gravity Driver Token and hopefully (*glares at RNG*), I'll have some to spare.
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I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
And that is why the power isn't sold in the C-Store. No one would pay 3300 Z for a single power, but folks would, and do, spend 3300 Z on keys.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
What a load of pr nonsense. There's nothing to keep an open mind about.
The bigger concern is the path you are taking the game down. Increasing prices in the C-store, while lowering the quality, and now stuffing overpowered powers into lockboxes.
Can't say I'm loving it, pretty sure I won't support it with money. Affordable to some but not all. Very lame.
I'll be honest with you, Cryptic guy I haven't seen before.
Clever wording here. 'Alternate' Ultimate power, as if it is the same as another and offers no advantages. 'Better Value' to people who invest in lockboxes, as if it's not gambling to win an OP Kill-button. Also, 'Mid-Range' means nothing when 39 of 40 bucks lands you R5 Enhancements and Resource boosts. You're asking us to 'keep an open mind', for... what? It's already obvious what this is, it sounds like you're telling us to just stop being outraged.
Sorry, Mr. Cryptic. You seem like a great guy, and you're just trying to do your job- I get it. But I must be fair and straightforward with you.
You want to give better value to someone? How about the lifetimers that dropped what some families pay in groceries for a month on your game because we had faith in it, or the people who still subscribe despite the lack of content this game has seen over the years (I got news for you, an emote recycled from a powerset's Passive ability is NOT 'value'). What about the 'value' you gave us when you acknowledged that some costumes were substandards, and you RAISED THE PRICES and even made the 'low value' costumes more expensive? How about the people who have been pleading to fix the absurd amount of bugs, many which are in the tailor AKA 'one of the two main selling points of CO'? What about the customers that come here and beg for you to provide some kind of feedback, some clues on what you plan to do with this game's future?
To be fair, when you guys do good- you do great. But right now, it looks like the priorities are not just backwards... but upside down and on fire.
You're a lunatic with a mad man's dream of a milk proof robot!
___________________________________________________
For what it's worth, He's one of the originals that worked on this game (or somewhere thereabouts)
It's not an "OP Kill-button" at all in its current PTS state.
So basically we will be spammed with "<player name> got a <item name> from a <name of lockbox> lockbox!"
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Yep, not only will this be all over the place given by the system, but prepare to get pm-spammed by hundreds for the one item you were (un)lucky enough to pull out regardless if they're just congratulating you or requesting a trade.
RIP Lockbox Privacy.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON NON NON NON!
WHY IS THIS GOING TO BE A FEATURE?
So they are just testing this to see how we respond to it, huh?
Power Unlocks now have their own category in the PH
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Well, there you have it folks, the future of the game.
Unless it rises to 10% or more, it simply won't be enough.
On the plus side, the costume set is beautiful.
On the minus side, it's drop rate was slightly lower than GD.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
We'll finally get a new handgun model?!111111111111111111
You claim to use feedback but the companies history keeps saying otherwise. (Look at the latest costume sets, the feedback for the variable robot set was mostly ignored and it looks nothing like the concept art that was submitted.)
If people buy a bunch of keys, then it's a success, no?
They are running a business.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Not necessarily, short term yes. But using that strategy only works for so long. Eventually people will find other ways to get what they want with out doing what they don't want to do. If that means going someplace else, then that is what they will do.
Welp.
Now I know what straw is going to break this camel's back. Time to start saving costumes and preparing to uninstall, unless somebody with a gold title can explain to me what future development is going to justify how painful this summer has been around here.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Short-term is the way business works these days, though.
To be fair, a friend of mine who is a producer and dev for another company predicted that CO would be run into the ground by PWE and closed in a year or two. So, from that perspective, the game has done quite well.
Still, this lockbox has the capacity to annoy or anger many of the veteran players left. I wonder what effects that will have. I guess we'll try it out and see what happens. Right, Arkayne?
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Successful businesses also have a long term plan in place. Sometimes made up of many short term plans, but those plans do eventually lead to something long term.
But Champions is just one of several games. It possibly is just one of the short term plans now.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Also, if this is the "Alternate Ultimate Power" then when does the Primary Force Ultimate Power show up? When I think of "Alternate" in these kinds of settings I'm expecting "A Copy of the power you have now with different graphics which has no actual bearing on the power balance of the game and is not P2Win." So...does this mean there's a "Gravity Bombardment(making up a name here)" which will be avaliable to Gold/LTS/Freeforms that just has different graphics?
Oh, and thanks for the communication. The effort is appreciated.
Acually....there was a brief time for LTS Refunds back in 2009. I know a few people who actually took advantage of it and, yeah, the majority of them no longer play(1 of them does rarely from time to time).
Well...
1. That "Veteran Team" is Arkayne(Original Dev), Splosions(On Alert Era Dev moves to NW and now back), Gadfly(Worked in ??? on STO), Totally new Costume Guy, and the occasional cameo by Crush(Lead Power Balance and PvP Dev for NW). There may be more....there may not.
2. Actually, the "Sattelite Office" had better Quality Control from my observatoins and, pure speculation on my part, that may very well be why we no longer have them around.
I agree with this mostly. This type of bad news/ideas/practices might have been just a tad more palatable had it been sandwhiched on one side with a good 2015 track record and on the other with some kind of positive permanent content addition of a decent size/replayability. This is more like being asked to put your head on the chopping block and being told the executioner isn't going to behead you. He's just going to take a little practice swing to see how it would feel to decapitate you. Trust him...you'll be fine.
Ya know<sighs>, once upon a time I used to joke that Cryptic North were X-Pirates and they should go loot and plunder our neighbors because they had nice stuff we could use. This isn't one of those nice things. This is like hitting the beach, picking up the treasure chest, dumping out the treasure, and heading back to the ship because,"Hey, it's a very useful chest!" .....ughhhhh.
Considering all the bad jokes I've heard in CO over the last few years about this bad idea and that one and how now it seems to be turning into "Champions Online 2015: Who's Laughing Now?" in that regard because they're coming true...I'm getting to the point where I'm becoming apprehensive of humor in this game because...it could turn out to be true. I even had a joke thought up about a certain very bad idea they actually do in NW but....yeah...I'm not going to write that out now because it could, potentially, become a reality here.
I...I just don't know.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
If it doesn't, the items involved will be lost forever and not become available in some other way.
So what happens when having a new power goes over well but that it being in a lock box doesn't? You'll stop giving us new powers? Lock boxes not selling says that putting powers in them doesn't work. But what if its because the costume set in it sucks?
Isn't seeing subscriptions, freeform and archetype purchases enough to say that players like new powers? This is certainly more concrete information to how new powers effects the game. Isn't that enough to just add them to the game without having to buy an unlock to increase the quality of those purchases, to encourage players to keep maintaining those purchases?
They're very desperate to make this lock box work.