I've left a few times. I've done it in several games. NEVER has a company sent me a email asking me to share my experiences or why I stopped playing. Not when I left WoW, not when I left Rift, not when I left LoL, and not when I left CO.
Ha-ha-ha, Do you honestly expect a business to interview every single Biased perspective of players for Improvement Ideas? When it comes to humanity as I've observed, nothing they care more (especially business) then their precious construct they place so much motivating value over anything else, so they prioritize what makes them money and nothing more, If they're passionate about their community then we'd hear from them more often, right? if they're that desperate to listen they only would want what any business want's, Profit at any cost,
For Example, Just look at Corporations like the fast food industry, gee, I wonder why people are getting fatter when all the marketing does is bombard your pleasure centers with deals, advertisements given the high expectations of civil servitude that doesn't give the consumer much time to think, which can lead to cause addiction and health problems, of course they won't take accountability and blame the consumer despite the psychological bombardment and physiological impulses... It's atrocious what Humans do and they have potential, rather then manipulating the masses for trivial gain.
/Signed, For what it's worth, I'd like to see some progress in something that has brought me Symbolic fulfillment in that regard, then being tarnished like most things humanity get their grubby hands on, False hope and broken promises... Otherwise showing some love to those that try to make a difference, for the better. Thank you for Trying.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Ha-ha-ha, Do you honestly expect a business to interview every single Biased perspective of players for Improvement Ideas? When it comes to humanity as I've observed, nothing they care more (especially business) then their precious construct they place so much motivating value over anything else, so they prioritize what makes them money and nothing more, if they're that desperate they only would want what any business want's, Profit at any cost,
Just look at Corporations like the fast food industry, gee, I wonder why people are getting fatter when all the marketing does is bombard your pleasure centers with deals, advertisements and only to cause addiction and health problems, of course they won't take accountability and blame the consumer despite the psychological bombardment and physiological impulses... It's atrocious what Humans do and they have so much potential, rather then squandering with trivial pursuits and frivolous monetary gain.
/Signed, For what it's worth, I'd like to see some progress in something that has brought me Symbolic fulfillment in that regard, then being tarnished like most things humanity get their grubby hands on, False hope and broken promises...
Other industries are constantly doing customer surveys. They send out product samples and do focus groups. There are companies that exist for the sole purpose of conducting surveys. So yes, I expect video game companies to do the same.
I'm even not going to get into your "Corporations are evil" rant.
Other industries are constantly doing customer surveys. They send out product samples and do focus groups. There are companies that exist for the sole purpose of conducting surveys. So yes, I expect video game companies to do the same.
I'm even not going to get into your "Corporations are evil" rant.
Good to know they're trying, it goes both ways, loyalty and Profit go hand in hand when it comes to business, also just to summarize the "Corporations are evil" Quote, just to understand what Humans do to each other in the pursuit of profit and the atrocities it can leave in it's wake, like betrayal, Negligence (Circumstantial Yes, still happens, just concerns me how people prioritize sometimes.), not so much these days since imposing laws to deter those behaviors, just alliterating how it affects people is all, Corporations are no exception, they just have more influence then the individual.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
It seemed like a good idea before they released what they did. We were hoping for vehicles to have a tailor screen & to include types not merely 'limited' to flight. I don't mind them in the game but I don't get any kicks out of adding more, they don't improve my game experience & they feel entirely to me as a cash siphon for PW instead of a game or character enhancement.
What particularly bothers me about vehicles are the ones that are tied to the lock boxes! I've finally taken the sucker sticker off of my forehead after the Valentine event on lock box vehicles!!! There should also be a petition for those boxes as well! Just sell the players what they want!
I'm fully supportive of the inclusion of vehicles in the game, as there are many types of characters where vehicles fit their theme. However, when you look at the sheer number of fixes and updates required in other parts of the game, it takes frustration to new levels to see them continually and almost exclusively build on only one aspect of the game.
If they're not willing to create new power sets, can't they still give some much needed love to the existing power sets like they did Telepathy?
That was at least a step in the right direction, but it was still only a step.
There's plenty of things they could do within a short space of time, but when that rare update does arrive, it's usually something insignificant and unnecessary in comparison to what they actually need to do, like adding more vehicles instead of things that will surprise and interest people.
What I'm going to say probably isn't going to be received well but I feel that it is needed to be said nonetheless.
Sales matter. The trend we're seeing with new vehicles being consistently added to the Z-store, also as drifter salvage unlocks and lockbox items has to do with the fact that vehicles are obviously selling well. The demand for them is there. It isn't Cryptic's independent decision to develop vehicles. This game's player market has had a hand in making that decision as well.
PWE / Cryptic could come in here to look at the petition thread, look at their vehicles sales figures for comparison (all signs showing that they're up to expectations if not exceeding them) and then wonder why they need to listen to the petition at all. Furthermore the forum isn't representative of the game's playerbase as a whole.
If you want Cryptic to stop churning out vehicles and start taking a different developmental focus, then the players who have been investing in the vehicles need to be convinced to stop buying them outright. At the same time if vehicles have proved to be profitable enough to contribute to the game's longevity, would asking them to stop really be helpful in the long run?
If you want Cryptic to stop churning out vehicles and start taking a different developmental focus, then the players who have been investing in the vehicles need to be convinced to stop buying them outright. At the same time if vehicles have proved to be profitable enough to contribute to the game's longevity, would asking them to stop really be helpful in the long run?
I don't even know how to respond to this without a profanity-laced tirade. Not at you, Jenny, but at Cryptic for permanently and irrevocably breaking the game's revenue stream, then insisting on developing to it and it alone.
But I will. Not. Stop. Fighting. Not for a genre and a community I believe in, and who deserve better than we're receiving.
We are heroes. This is what we do.
I'll take up that mantle even if nobody else does. There's still a chance for this game as long as PWE and Cryptic keep it running. It's more of a chance than the CoH community had once those greedy, lying ******** at NCSoft kicked them out.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I don't even know how to respond to this without a profanity-laced tirade. Not at you, Jenny, but at Cryptic for permanently and irrevocably breaking the game's revenue stream, then insisting on developing to it and it alone.
But I will. Not. Stop. Fighting. Not for a genre and a community I believe in, and who deserve better than we're receiving.
We are heroes. This is what we do.
I'll take up that mantle even if nobody else does. There's still a chance for this game as long as PWE and Cryptic keep it running. It's more of a chance than the CoH community had once those greedy, lying ******** at NCSoft kicked them out.
Well considering the irritation that people continue to fraudulently believe vehicles single handedly saved this game is silly. If anything saved this game it has been the lock boxes. Plain and simple. While the vehicles might have provided a somewhat decent temporary boost the lockboxes have remained the constant, and the further irritation that people continuously, and fraudulently believe that vehicles have been the only thing worked on just continues to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, this community wears blinders.
Yes, because we have access to Cryptic's sales records to show that it was really just the lockboxes that saved the game.
Oh wait.
Yes, because vehicles fly off the C Store to prove they were the number 1 seller? Really, I think most of the vehicles that are being sold are from lockboxes. And you are really going to try and scoff at how many key sale trades are done daily and really try to compare that to the vehicle sales? Considering a large portion of trades are conducted through keys. It takes a special kind of tunnel vision to ignore that fact.
Vehicles are here, that's a fact, they aren't going away, that is also a fact, even if I don't want them around. So let's recap, how much does 1 C Store vehicle cost? The most expensive what $15 bucks? If it's upgraded to tier 2, that adds an additional $7 bucks for $22 total, or there about's. However, a lockbox vehicle, let's take the skyfox, is being sold of upwards 4000G or 40 keys. 1 key is $1, or $40 dollars or if you believe everyone bought 4 x $9 specials, $36 bucks.... And keys are being bought in greater quantity because to get those skyfoxes, boxes HAVE to be opened. That's also ignoring the costumes and other various items people want out of those lockboxes to, since it's all random on if you get it or not.
I think it's clear that keys did more to save Champions than vehicles did.
Thing is, what's in the lockboxes that makes people want to open them so badly?
Is it the costumes? Those only go for tens or hundreds
Mods? R7s have been steadily dropping in price
Legion? Been around from the year and market is oversaturated. Even with the nerfed rates they're still down to 500g, a far cry from 5000g a year ago.
What could they possibly want from lockboxes then? What's the big prize that people post on the AH for thousands and still have them sell within the day?
Thing is, what's in the lockboxes that makes people want to open them so badly?
Is it the costumes? Those only go for tens or hundreds
Mods? R7s have been steadily dropping in price
Legion? Been around from the year and market is oversaturated. Even with the nerfed rates they're still down to 500g, a far cry from 5000g a year ago.
What could they possibly want from lockboxes then? What's the big prize that people post on the AH for thousands and still have them sell within the day?
You mean that Archer costume that went for thousands in the heartstring lockbox until the last week or so, or are you refering to the 90s foxbat costume that is going for at min 700 right now? The big prize people want is the skyfox for that gravity pulse on it, and it's silly to believe that people are not opening these things up, otherwise there wouldn't be any to sell, and it's obvious people are buying keys otherwise the market wouldn't be trading with them.
Let's put fact ahead of fiction here; If keys weren't the big bread winner for Cryptic, why is every new item that's added aimed at making opening lockboxes or at least buying items from lockboxes becoming more front and center? Yea we can get justice gear but what is required other than investing tons of hours into random chance? Opening lockboxes with keys to get drifter salvage to put a piece of justice gear together or requiring buying crates which require someone else to open lockboxes.
Yea, $1 buck may not seem like a tide turner to a layman but $1 dollar can add up fast when its bought many times over.
Yes, because vehicles fly off the C Store to prove they were the number 1 seller? Really, I think most of the vehicles that are being sold are from lockboxes. And you are really going to try and scoff at how many key sale trades are done daily and really try to compare that to the vehicle sales? Considering a large portion of trades are conducted through keys. It takes a special kind of tunnel vision to ignore that fact.
Vehicles are here, that's a fact, they aren't going away, that is also a fact, even if I don't want them around. So let's recap, how much does 1 C Store vehicle cost? The most expensive what $15 bucks? If it's upgraded to tier 2, that adds an additional $7 bucks for $22 total, or there about's. However, a lockbox vehicle, let's take the skyfox, is being sold of upwards 4000G or 40 keys. 1 key is $1, or $40 dollars or if you believe everyone bought 4 x $9 specials, $36 bucks.... And keys are being bought in greater quantity because to get those skyfoxes, boxes HAVE to be opened. That's also ignoring the costumes and other various items people want out of those lockboxes to, since it's all random on if you get it or not.
I think it's clear that keys did more to save Champions than vehicles did.
Since when did I ever make an assertion that vehicles are the no. 1 seller? I only mentioned that it's evident that they do sell well, considering that new vehicles have consistently been developed, much like lockboxes.
It's only "clear" when the data shows it is, not random, wild sales theories.
You mean that Archer costume that went for thousands in the heartstring lockbox until the last week or so, or are you refering to the 90s foxbat costume that is going for at min 700 right now? The big prize people want is the skyfox for that gravity pulse on it, and it's silly to believe that people are not opening these things up, otherwise there wouldn't be any to sell, and it's obvious people are buying keys otherwise the market wouldn't be trading with them.
Let's put fact ahead of fiction here; If keys weren't the big bread winner for Cryptic, why is every new item that's added aimed at making opening lockboxes or at least buying items from lockboxes becoming more front and center? Yea we can get justice gear but what is required other than investing tons of hours into random chance? Opening lockboxes with keys to get drifter salvage to put a piece of justice gear together or requiring buying crates which require someone else to open lockboxes.
Yea, $1 buck may not seem like a tide turner to a layman but $1 dollar can add up fast when its bought many times over.
There we go, a vehicle is the big prize
Incidentally, the most common vehicle on the AH is the Fire Ant, which costs much more salvage than a full Justice set.
Yes, lockboxes are making money. And what's in the lockboxes? Vehicles.
Of course, the other stuff is nice too, but you gotta admit vehicles and the currency to buy vehicles are one of the top, if not the top reason to open lockboxes.
Incidentally, the most common vehicle on the AH is the Fire Ant, which costs much more salvage than a full Justice set.
Yes, lockboxes are making money. And what's in the lockboxes? Vehicles.
Of course, the other stuff is nice too, but you gotta admit vehicles and the currency to buy vehicles are one of the top, if not the top reason to open lockboxes.
I wouldn't claim that at all, since the last lockbox the vehicle wasn't the top item. The only reason the skyfox is a top seller is because of the gravity pulse. The other vehicle int aht same lockbox is considerably less. Take off the gravity pulse I doubt a skyfox would sell as much as it currently does. So, again, the point still stands, it's the key sells, not the vehicles themselves, that are selling big, since again the last lockbox the vehicle in it wasn't the big mover, it was the costume.
Since when did I ever make an assertion that vehicles are the no. 1 seller? I only mentioned that it's evident that they do sell well, considering that new vehicles have consistently been developed, much like lockboxes.
It's only "clear" when the data shows it is, not random, wild sales theories.
It's only theory if you want to ignore the simple facts. And you again, are ignoring those facts. Vehicles are not the only thing in those lockboxes. And as I pointed out the vehicle wasn't the big item in the last lockbox, it was the costume. Vehicles became requires so now people need them but people only want specific weapons, which can only be found on a few key vehicles. They are only good sellers because of those weapons. Outside of that little fact the other vehicles rarely move.
Hell, I'd say auras have received more attention than anything else.
If you want to go back, STO they openly said lockboxes were what brought that game out of the frying pan.
I wouldn't claim that at all, since the last lockbox the vehicle wasn't the top item. The only reason the skyfox is a top seller is because of the gravity pulse. The other vehicle int aht same lockbox is considerably less. Take off the gravity pulse I doubt a skyfox would sell as much as it currently does. So, again, the point still stands, it's the key sells, not the vehicles themselves, that are selling big, since again the last lockbox the vehicle in it wasn't the big mover, it was the costume.
You can say that, but where does Gravity Pulse go into? A vehicle.
And granted for the Archer box, the vehicle prize isn't exactly the hottest - Green isn't a popular color, Arrowhead's aesthetics aren't really the kind that would attract most people and Adder is just a palette swap. But Arrowhead still commanded a good price. Even if it wasn't the top prize, it easily earns #2 or #3.
Stripped Skyfox also sells well, because it's black and edgy and industrial-looking.
So my point is yes, the keys sell, but vehicles are a big reason behind why they sell. Or more specifically, 8-slot vehicles, potential 8-slot vehicles and OP weapons to stick into these 8-slot vehicles that can tank Teleiosaur, along with high-rank Plasma Beams and AA missiles and Biosteels. And that turns them into money-making assets in certain open world and story missions with very big mobs that die very quickly to Mk2 vehicle parties and give big piles of G at the end. Also, Rampages.
Honestly, I'd like to see them experiment with two different things:
Make a Grab bag (yes, grab bag) that is costume/gear/mods only. Make one that is vehicle/vehicle weapons/vehicle mods only. See which ones sell.
Chances are, there's quite a few people who are into the vehicles for the edge they give you in a few locations. But also, I'm willing to bet that really good costumes are pretty popular. I know for one that when a costume comes out I like to get one for me and one for my friends if I can, and so I gamble a bit. I honestly don't give a damn about vehicles, and a few laps around ren center during prime time, I see very few people using them. That may just be me, though. Perception isn't reality.
Honestly, I'd like to see them experiment with two different things:
Make a Grab bag (yes, grab bag) that is costume/gear/mods only. Make one that is vehicle/vehicle weapons/vehicle mods only. See which ones sell.
Chances are, there's quite a few people who are into the vehicles for the edge they give you in a few locations. But also, I'm willing to bet that really good costumes are pretty popular. I know for one that when a costume comes out I like to get one for me and one for my friends if I can, and so I gamble a bit. I honestly don't give a damn about vehicles, and a few laps around ren center during prime time, I see very few people using them. That may just be me, though. Perception isn't reality.
I think they've done A/B testing to that extent already - the Forum Malvanum lockbox last year had a lackluster vehicle prize - a giant sandal with low slots and if I remember right, weapons weren't amazing either. So the main reason to open those were for Alien Gladiator costume pieces and the usual Legion and Mods. Of course, sandals are really good now but that's because of the Mk2 kits.
On our side, we will likely never see how that affected sales numbers, but I'm sure PWE has already drawn their conclusions and today we're feeling the effects of whatever they decided based on FM box results.
Incidentally, the most common vehicle on the AH is the Fire Ant, which costs much more salvage than a full Justice set.
Yes, lockboxes are making money. And what's in the lockboxes? Vehicles.
Of course, the other stuff is nice too, but you gotta admit vehicles and the currency to buy vehicles are one of the top, if not the top reason to open lockboxes.
No. Spar is right, though she may not be aware of whats happening in the player market.
Vehicle prices have positively plummted in terms of vehicle costs. No you can't have links, go in and look around for yourself firsthand. You are way off the mark.
No. Spar is right, though she may not be aware of whats happening in the player market.
Vehicle prices have positively plummted in terms of vehicle costs. No you can't have links, go in and look around for yourself firsthand. You are way off the mark.
Skyfox for 5k at last check.
Strike Hawkwing for 2k and it's a consolation prize.
If that's "positively plummted" (sic), I take it you mean in a gravity-defying way, since I bought my Hawk for 3k back in the 2nd wave of vehicle boxes.
Strike Hawkwing for 2k and it's a consolation prize.
If that's "positively plummted" (sic), I take it you mean in a gravity-defying way, since I bought my Hawk for 3k back in the 2nd wave of vehicle boxes.
5k? Wow. Is that what you remember vehicles going for a year ago? If so I think we are done here.
Part of the problem is that many of the Silver players use vehicles. No, that's not a slam on Silvers. It's a reality...
Playing something like a Radiant, or a more squishy AT? I can see how vehicles could help, just like how I can imagine how a be-critter would help.
But the Silver situation is what is at the root of the problem.
As a Silver, it's not like if someone unlocks the vehicle and wants to sell it for G's they can go and buy it, because that 250G cap is the problem. So, if they want a vehicle, they have two options...
Throw 100G's at keys, 2 at a time (that's how most of mine have sold). Use keys to buy open gamble box, pray you win a thing.
Buy an underperforming version in the C-store, which can be achieved through grinding for Questionite. If you haven't seen the Zen-Questionite exchange rate, go look at it. It's like watching the Iraqi currency drop during the invasion. It's absurd.
Considering that many Silver players are Silver players because of financial reasons, these are the normal two options.
Here's a challenge: Lift the Silver G cap. Watch the market for keys drop- not vanish, but it'd become less appealing to someone who can just take 2k G and go buy the vehicle from the Auction House. Some of them are pretty fiercely dedicated to getting currency in-game, and it'd help them a lot of they could buy things outright conveniently.
Vehicles are better as devices than they would be as travel powers.
If anyone thinks that new shiny would be sold at the same pricing as regular travel powers, that's pure naivety. No. They'd be also prices at 1000+ Zen. 1k Zen travel powers. No, them being set similar to travel powers would not make them cheaper. Don't fool yourselves.
And they wouldn't be probably customisable anyway.
It's great that I can have two travel powers AND device giving me a third one. I'd never change it to only two travel powers, one with vehicle skin. I can have two useless horizontal travel powers for theme and one long range flight. For the same reason I use become critter devices with flight travel powers.
Also, it's great that vehicles CAN"T be used on interior maps. Really, it's a very good idea.
costumes I keep or give to friends
mods I keep
salvage boxes I give away
Q boxes I keep
vehicles i give away, i have several of the funnier looking ones parked in my hideout bank but I really have no use for them.
and I have one of the hawkwings from the Foxbat box which i can't even give away for free
It's only theory if you want to ignore the simple facts. And you again, are ignoring those facts. Vehicles are not the only thing in those lockboxes. And as I pointed out the vehicle wasn't the big item in the last lockbox, it was the costume. Vehicles became requires so now people need them but people only want specific weapons, which can only be found on a few key vehicles. They are only good sellers because of those weapons. Outside of that little fact the other vehicles rarely move.
Hell, I'd say auras have received more attention than anything else.
If you want to go back, STO they openly said lockboxes were what brought that game out of the frying pan.
What you stated in your previous post weren't facts. It was pure assumption. You assumed instantly that anyone paying 4000G for a Skyfox relied on nothing but key sales to accumulate that many globals. The drop rate for the Skyfox is completely random so it's not possible to come to even an average of just how many lockboxes are being opened per Skyfox unlock. Regardless none of us know of the total Z-store vehicle sales to make any sort of credible comparison.
The vehicle exclusive to the lockbox not being the primary draw is highly subjective with regards to personal preference and is hardly concrete fact to prove that vehicles aren't bringing in any major sales.
Here's a challenge: Lift the Silver G cap. Watch the market for keys drop- not vanish, but it'd become less appealing to someone who can just take 2k G and go buy the vehicle from the Auction House. Some of them are pretty fiercely dedicated to getting currency in-game, and it'd help them a lot of they could buy things outright conveniently.
And that's the reason why Cryptic will never put G limit raises in Z-Store.
Present situation makes people buying keys. At this moment health of ingame economy (or health of the whole CO), or making system less scam-firendly is no longer of any concern for Cryptic. Only key sales.
I'm pretty sure that if STO community also had this habit of doing everything by lockbox key trades, they would be never given money limit increases in their store. Or maybe not, since ST is not Cryptic franchise, so they have to care about the game health and longevity.
But CO is Cryptic's to do as they see fit, and at this moment it is rather obvious that Cryptic just keeps it afloat only for sales. They wrote this game off of their radars long time ago.
When the Z-store was accessible on the web site, it had a list of top selling items. I'm pretty sure FF slots were above any vehicles. Too bad that's gone and no one can see if it's changed or double check my memory.
Vehicles don't drop as much as the full costume sets. If the demand for vehicles and costumes were the same, vehicles would still sell for more just because there aren't as many of them available for sale.
I agree that lifting the silver global limit will never happen due to keys being used as currency. Look at how many things in the AH are well over 250g. That is a lot of purchases that require keys. It's a damn shame.
This was all before my time here- Did many players really ask for extensive vehicle combat in a superhero MMO? If that really was a system derived from player suggestions, then I'd like to find those players and ask 'what were you thinking?' If not player-derived, then I aim that question to the devs, like everyone else is.
This was all before my time here- Did many players really ask for extensive vehicle combat in a superhero MMO? If that really was a system derived from player suggestions, then I'd like to find those players and ask 'what were you thinking?' If not player-derived, then I aim that question to the devs, like everyone else is.
Here's what happened, in a nutshell.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
Huh, my Fire Ant MkI seems to be working just as well as it did before.
And once I get the Q to get some weapon mods my Wild Eagle and Legionnaire will have enough slots to be useful in the rampages.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
Haha, thanks for the dramatic representation, cybersoldier1981.
It sounded like a 'innocent enough' type of concept- where some seed of an idea was implanted into the devs (hey, some superheroes use vehicles, maybe we could add them in some capacity some time?) and it blossomed into into a trainwreck.
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a sh**ty costume part that looks like made by eight-years old modeler who is learning how to use 3-d tools !"
I think it's a bit more accurate now. :biggrin:
I was kinda upset that costume part is exclusively tied to this marketing fiasco, when they were advertising this sale.
Then I saw this helmet in advertisements.
And I was upset no longer.
I'm not sure if it's the most crappy, or only amongst the most crappiest costume parts made for CO. I know that some people have it... But I NEVER saw this fugly thing actually worn by someone. People must be really embarassed by its epic, halfassed, uglyness.
It's just like Cryptic took previously discarded stuff rotting in their drawer only to have anything to sell with the vehicles.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
More or less this is true. But I'll add the they also allowed certain exploits to be used for many MANY months when they were well aware of them. One possible conclusion is this is just so they could reap as much cash from people seeking to exploit as possible. But the really infuriating part is that all of the revenue did NOT go back into Champions Online, or even trying to recruit players and developers from the City of Heroes closure. It was simple Neverwinter and Star Trek.
We have YET to see that level of investment. "Build it and they will come" as some say, but they refuse to build anything, just make more bells and whistles. And yes, costumes and vehicles and auras are all flash; they are not places to go and explore with your character. They do no add to the lore and only costumes truly add to customization.
Speaking in terms of the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology four types of gamers, PWE is failing to retain existing players or recruit newbies to the player base numbers in Champions. The break down is something like this:
Achievers -- These are players who prefer to gain "points," levels, equipment and other concrete measurements of succeeding in a game. They will go to great lengths to achieve rewards that confer them little or no gameplay benefit simply for the prestige of having it.
New costumes sets, new action figures, new vehicles, and even some new perk titles. There is a lot PWE has added in recent years for this gamer type.
Explorers -- These are players who prefer discovering areas, creating maps and learning about hidden places. They often feel restricted when a game expects them to move on within a certain time, as that does not allow them to look around at their own pace. They find great joy in discovering an unknown glitch or a hidden easter egg.
PWE has added almost nothing for these gamers! The only new maps in over a year are Sky Command, Fury of the Dragon, and Gravitar / Fire & Ice (basically the tutorial map with some minor edits).
The last new zone that you could actually EXPLORE was Vibora Bay, released years ago...
The last linear-story-based content was Whiteout, released over a year ago...
There has been ZERO effort shown by Cryptic North and no money from PWE to develop new content that can be explored. As I personally fall into this catagory a fair bit myself (I'm also somewhat a "killer" and slightly an "achiever" too), I'll contend that the one redeeming value is freeform build making. Which Freeforms are being downgraded as vehicles get more and more overpowered. Re-emphasizing freeform builds and making a new Zone to explore would be a little slice of heaven for a player like me.
Being able to make my own nemesis using a Foundry editor would be like a whole Heaven Cake! :biggrin:
Socializers -- There are a multitude of gamers who choose to play games for the social aspect, rather than the actual game itself. They gain the most enjoyment from a game by interacting with other players, and on some occasions, computer-controlled characters with personality. The game is merely a tool they use to meet others in-game or outside of it.
Costumes, the powerhouse theater, and re-releasing a third of the old crafting instances are the only new things the social players have gotten in recent years. Promised improvements to the chat system never happened. Fortunately this group mostly relies on personal imaginations, so Roleplaying (RP) and Costume Contests can still go on without major development overhauls.
Killers -- They thrive on competition with other players, and prefer fighting them to scripted computer-controlled opponents.
Cryptic has, or more specifically one could say individual developer (who shall not be named as per forum name & shame rules) has, gone out of their way to purge PvP from the game. The freeform system that is one of this game's best assest is actualy a hindrance in this case, but more effort could be done to buff up weaker powers and advantages or to change how some other powers interact with other powers (no nerfing needed, but say changing Strafing Run to physical damage instead of fire would fix a feedback loophole while not nerfing it) Additionally constantly having to re-gear to keep up with the Flavor of the Month is expensive and time consuming, more than what most players will like. And mostly importantly the lack of equivalent reward incentives makes it to where teamplay PvP (which has the best player retention value and diversity) is practically non-existant. Even if you do not like PvP yourself, it does add something to the game: endless combat variability, against an adaptable intelligence. Players are not predicable AI's, thus making each encounter different. On teamplay this makes healers and DPS equally valuable, and encourages strategic thinking. In short, it adds end-game content that stays fresh far long than any individual PvE mission.
Yes, lockboxes are making money. And what's in the lockboxes? Vehicles.
Of course, the other stuff is nice too, but you gotta admit vehicles and the currency to buy vehicles are one of the top, if not the top reason to open lockboxes.
Actually no... This is hasty assumption.
What we do know is that keys are (according to TrailTurtle) the "most profitable thing" they have ever done in Champions Online.
Why do I say "no"?
Because this was happening long before any vehicles were in lockboxes! Heck even Grab Bags like the "Service Grab Bag" were a huge success, according to the developers themselves. So the success isn't related to vehicles as much as it simply is that lockboxes contain jackpot loot that is in high-demand on the market. If the jackpot valuable enough, regardless of what type of item it is, people will try to get lucky.
Additionally you have to consider that if all you ever make is one flavor, eventually people who strongly dislike that flavor stop visiting and only the people who do like that flavor (or can tolerate it) remain. The feedback is going to be more an more slanted in favor of vehicles over time.
[*]Explorers -- These are players who prefer discovering areas, creating maps and learning about hidden places. They often feel restricted when a game expects them to move on within a certain time, as that does not allow them to look around at their own pace. They find great joy in discovering an unknown glitch or a hidden easter egg.
Arguably there's been a lot of glitches to discover with the powers and vehicle changes over the past year...
Because this was happening long before any vehicles were in lockboxes! Heck even Grab Bags like the "Service Grab Bag" were a huge success, according to the developers themselves. So the success isn't related to vehicles as much as it simply is that lockboxes contain jackpot loot that is in high-demand on the market. If the jackpot valuable enough, regardless of what type of item it is, people will try to get lucky.
Additionally you have to consider that if all you ever make is one flavor, eventually people who strongly dislike that flavor stop visiting and only the people who do like that flavor (or can tolerate it) remain. The feedback is going to be more an more slanted in favor of vehicles over time.
Thing is, they ran out of stuff to put in boxes - after Tako 1.0 what could they do? They couldn't push the next tier of gear so soon. More costumes can work but can't carry sales by itself because as you note with Bartle's breakdown, they don't appeal to all demographics. Would more ATs work? I don't know, but we haven't seen a new AT since Night Avenger. So what else could they have put into Lockboxes? Rank 4 player powers?
So what else could they have put into Lockboxes? Rank 4 player powers?
You know it's bad when a satirical suggestion (given as your whole response starting with comparing glitches to "content" is smart-alek in tone) is better than Vehicles.
Yes.
I would gladly take things like having the option to have Rank 4 on some of my power's advantage points than vehicles. At least that way my character is still truly customizable and stays in-theme.
If I wanted vehicles from a Cryptic game I'd just play Star Trek Online. If I wanted better vehicles implementation + infantry I'd play one of the many shooters that combine the two (and some of the most popular games in the industry I might add). Hell even a "boring" flight simulator has better gameplay implementation that vehicles in this game, we can't even get the vehicle weapons to stay in one place on the power tray -- each time you get in your vehicle you have to re-adjust for where your weapon controls are located on your keyboard!
Because vehicles, whatever they are, are largely optional and can be safely ignored. But ignoring lockboxes with rank 4 powers would put player at bigger disadvantage than not having a vehicle.
That would be more harmful for the game than having rides that can be skipped most of the time.
As it stands, vehicles are just a poorly made cash grab that really don't seem to do anything other than promote a pay to win mentality, but even then, there aren't many situations that need them. The ones that do really don't feel natural either. To further add to the travesty that is the vehicle system, they've added the upgrade kits, which make sense in STO where vehicles are actually worthwhile (but not the asking price) and actually have the audacity to ask for more money here (where they're not even worthwhile).
Instead of pushing out this kind of terrible content, they really should have finished things like the hideouts or the nemesis system. Or at least made vehicles as travel powers rather than devices. They would have been only $5 which is still too much for how little you get, but at least closer to the vehicles actual value, not to mention actually take the time to add customization. Hell, just give us skins for travel powers that turn super speed into a motorcycle, or flight into a helicopter. Don't give us a "way less than half" assed device that doesn't really make sense.
Instead of pushing out new lockboxes or bad gimmicks to try and squeeze the money out of players, why not put the effort into actual things we want... like Power sets. As a superhero game, power sets should be the majority of what we get. Costume sets are another great addition. When are we going to be able to get the finished hideouts? or supergroup bases?
Don't over charge us for crap no one wants, and instead give us things we want to buy and we will willingly give you our money. Money that should be going back into this game, not getting sent to NW or the new project.
I said it before in another thread and I will say it here....
/signed
I agree, but vehicles were something people were asking for since back when Cryptic was working on City of Heros. It's an idea that resonates well with the genre. Not all super heroes have powers they can use to travel, or there are limitations.
People would have been happy to see their character hopping on a light speed bike when activating their travel power, or some variation of that. Basically powers that would replace one or both of the travel powers. What we got was overdeveloped and poorly implemented version of that in the form of a device.
The money saved from foregoing the development of the combat capabilities of the vehicles, that can/are hardly be used anyways, could have been spent on more variations or other things.
I guess they took a chance by trying to give us what they thought was more than what we wanted, but it backfired.
Right now they (and we) are stuck in a catch-22. They don't have the money to develop other things, and we don't want to give them money unless they do.
This whole vehicle thing ends up favoring zen buyers too much. There are several players that have stayed in this game for as long as 3 yrs. maybe you could reward then for their support? Moreover, some other games launch archetypes frequently to give champions something new to try.
I am sure almost everyone will agree that free players don't get much of a choice to play Hybrid characters.
Well I would suggest releasing some cool hybrid free AT. I am not going to deny the fact that I have a vehicle myself (got lucky with a lockbox). Do not remove vehicles as a whole but do try to spend some time with other features as well. No form of offence was meant.
Thank you.
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
I can see where this is going. The next tank in a box will magically transport you to Neverwinter after a no skill one shot'ing of Mega D while eating all the pies.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Comments
Ha-ha-ha, Do you honestly expect a business to interview every single Biased perspective of players for Improvement Ideas? When it comes to humanity as I've observed, nothing they care more (especially business) then their precious construct they place so much motivating value over anything else, so they prioritize what makes them money and nothing more, If they're passionate about their community then we'd hear from them more often, right? if they're that desperate to listen they only would want what any business want's, Profit at any cost,
For Example, Just look at Corporations like the fast food industry, gee, I wonder why people are getting fatter when all the marketing does is bombard your pleasure centers with deals, advertisements given the high expectations of civil servitude that doesn't give the consumer much time to think, which can lead to cause addiction and health problems, of course they won't take accountability and blame the consumer despite the psychological bombardment and physiological impulses... It's atrocious what Humans do and they have potential, rather then manipulating the masses for trivial gain.
/Signed, For what it's worth, I'd like to see some progress in something that has brought me Symbolic fulfillment in that regard, then being tarnished like most things humanity get their grubby hands on, False hope and broken promises... Otherwise showing some love to those that try to make a difference, for the better.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Other industries are constantly doing customer surveys. They send out product samples and do focus groups. There are companies that exist for the sole purpose of conducting surveys. So yes, I expect video game companies to do the same.
I'm even not going to get into your "Corporations are evil" rant.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Good to know they're trying, it goes both ways, loyalty and Profit go hand in hand when it comes to business, also just to summarize the "Corporations are evil" Quote, just to understand what Humans do to each other in the pursuit of profit and the atrocities it can leave in it's wake, like betrayal, Negligence (Circumstantial Yes, still happens, just concerns me how people prioritize sometimes.), not so much these days since imposing laws to deter those behaviors, just alliterating how it affects people is all, Corporations are no exception, they just have more influence then the individual.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Just no more, it is enough is enough.
It seemed like a good idea before they released what they did. We were hoping for vehicles to have a tailor screen & to include types not merely 'limited' to flight. I don't mind them in the game but I don't get any kicks out of adding more, they don't improve my game experience & they feel entirely to me as a cash siphon for PW instead of a game or character enhancement.
so I told them, interenet connection. they gave me several suggestions to help
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What particularly bothers me about vehicles are the ones that are tied to the lock boxes! I've finally taken the sucker sticker off of my forehead after the Valentine event on lock box vehicles!!! There should also be a petition for those boxes as well! Just sell the players what they want!
TSW asked me why I stopped I said I hated their face so hard. Oddly they never got back to me :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I'm fully supportive of the inclusion of vehicles in the game, as there are many types of characters where vehicles fit their theme. However, when you look at the sheer number of fixes and updates required in other parts of the game, it takes frustration to new levels to see them continually and almost exclusively build on only one aspect of the game.
If they're not willing to create new power sets, can't they still give some much needed love to the existing power sets like they did Telepathy?
That was at least a step in the right direction, but it was still only a step.
There's plenty of things they could do within a short space of time, but when that rare update does arrive, it's usually something insignificant and unnecessary in comparison to what they actually need to do, like adding more vehicles instead of things that will surprise and interest people.
Vehicles might fit some character concepts if all of them didn't fly. Where are the super cars? Motorcycles? Surf/skateboards?
However, I agree with pretty much the general sentiment of this thread. Enough with the vehicle content.
Sales matter. The trend we're seeing with new vehicles being consistently added to the Z-store, also as drifter salvage unlocks and lockbox items has to do with the fact that vehicles are obviously selling well. The demand for them is there. It isn't Cryptic's independent decision to develop vehicles. This game's player market has had a hand in making that decision as well.
PWE / Cryptic could come in here to look at the petition thread, look at their vehicles sales figures for comparison (all signs showing that they're up to expectations if not exceeding them) and then wonder why they need to listen to the petition at all. Furthermore the forum isn't representative of the game's playerbase as a whole.
If you want Cryptic to stop churning out vehicles and start taking a different developmental focus, then the players who have been investing in the vehicles need to be convinced to stop buying them outright. At the same time if vehicles have proved to be profitable enough to contribute to the game's longevity, would asking them to stop really be helpful in the long run?
I don't even know how to respond to this without a profanity-laced tirade. Not at you, Jenny, but at Cryptic for permanently and irrevocably breaking the game's revenue stream, then insisting on developing to it and it alone.
But I will. Not. Stop. Fighting. Not for a genre and a community I believe in, and who deserve better than we're receiving.
We are heroes. This is what we do.
I'll take up that mantle even if nobody else does. There's still a chance for this game as long as PWE and Cryptic keep it running. It's more of a chance than the CoH community had once those greedy, lying ******** at NCSoft kicked them out.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Well considering the irritation that people continue to fraudulently believe vehicles single handedly saved this game is silly. If anything saved this game it has been the lock boxes. Plain and simple. While the vehicles might have provided a somewhat decent temporary boost the lockboxes have remained the constant, and the further irritation that people continuously, and fraudulently believe that vehicles have been the only thing worked on just continues to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, this community wears blinders.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Oh wait.
Yes, because vehicles fly off the C Store to prove they were the number 1 seller? Really, I think most of the vehicles that are being sold are from lockboxes. And you are really going to try and scoff at how many key sale trades are done daily and really try to compare that to the vehicle sales? Considering a large portion of trades are conducted through keys. It takes a special kind of tunnel vision to ignore that fact.
Vehicles are here, that's a fact, they aren't going away, that is also a fact, even if I don't want them around. So let's recap, how much does 1 C Store vehicle cost? The most expensive what $15 bucks? If it's upgraded to tier 2, that adds an additional $7 bucks for $22 total, or there about's. However, a lockbox vehicle, let's take the skyfox, is being sold of upwards 4000G or 40 keys. 1 key is $1, or $40 dollars or if you believe everyone bought 4 x $9 specials, $36 bucks.... And keys are being bought in greater quantity because to get those skyfoxes, boxes HAVE to be opened. That's also ignoring the costumes and other various items people want out of those lockboxes to, since it's all random on if you get it or not.
I think it's clear that keys did more to save Champions than vehicles did.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Is it the costumes? Those only go for tens or hundreds
Mods? R7s have been steadily dropping in price
Legion? Been around from the year and market is oversaturated. Even with the nerfed rates they're still down to 500g, a far cry from 5000g a year ago.
What could they possibly want from lockboxes then? What's the big prize that people post on the AH for thousands and still have them sell within the day?
You mean that Archer costume that went for thousands in the heartstring lockbox until the last week or so, or are you refering to the 90s foxbat costume that is going for at min 700 right now? The big prize people want is the skyfox for that gravity pulse on it, and it's silly to believe that people are not opening these things up, otherwise there wouldn't be any to sell, and it's obvious people are buying keys otherwise the market wouldn't be trading with them.
Let's put fact ahead of fiction here; If keys weren't the big bread winner for Cryptic, why is every new item that's added aimed at making opening lockboxes or at least buying items from lockboxes becoming more front and center? Yea we can get justice gear but what is required other than investing tons of hours into random chance? Opening lockboxes with keys to get drifter salvage to put a piece of justice gear together or requiring buying crates which require someone else to open lockboxes.
Yea, $1 buck may not seem like a tide turner to a layman but $1 dollar can add up fast when its bought many times over.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Since when did I ever make an assertion that vehicles are the no. 1 seller? I only mentioned that it's evident that they do sell well, considering that new vehicles have consistently been developed, much like lockboxes.
It's only "clear" when the data shows it is, not random, wild sales theories.
There we go, a vehicle is the big prize
Incidentally, the most common vehicle on the AH is the Fire Ant, which costs much more salvage than a full Justice set.
Yes, lockboxes are making money. And what's in the lockboxes? Vehicles.
Of course, the other stuff is nice too, but you gotta admit vehicles and the currency to buy vehicles are one of the top, if not the top reason to open lockboxes.
I wouldn't claim that at all, since the last lockbox the vehicle wasn't the top item. The only reason the skyfox is a top seller is because of the gravity pulse. The other vehicle int aht same lockbox is considerably less. Take off the gravity pulse I doubt a skyfox would sell as much as it currently does. So, again, the point still stands, it's the key sells, not the vehicles themselves, that are selling big, since again the last lockbox the vehicle in it wasn't the big mover, it was the costume.
It's only theory if you want to ignore the simple facts. And you again, are ignoring those facts. Vehicles are not the only thing in those lockboxes. And as I pointed out the vehicle wasn't the big item in the last lockbox, it was the costume. Vehicles became requires so now people need them but people only want specific weapons, which can only be found on a few key vehicles. They are only good sellers because of those weapons. Outside of that little fact the other vehicles rarely move.
Hell, I'd say auras have received more attention than anything else.
If you want to go back, STO they openly said lockboxes were what brought that game out of the frying pan.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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You can say that, but where does Gravity Pulse go into? A vehicle.
And granted for the Archer box, the vehicle prize isn't exactly the hottest - Green isn't a popular color, Arrowhead's aesthetics aren't really the kind that would attract most people and Adder is just a palette swap. But Arrowhead still commanded a good price. Even if it wasn't the top prize, it easily earns #2 or #3.
Stripped Skyfox also sells well, because it's black and edgy and industrial-looking.
So my point is yes, the keys sell, but vehicles are a big reason behind why they sell. Or more specifically, 8-slot vehicles, potential 8-slot vehicles and OP weapons to stick into these 8-slot vehicles that can tank Teleiosaur, along with high-rank Plasma Beams and AA missiles and Biosteels. And that turns them into money-making assets in certain open world and story missions with very big mobs that die very quickly to Mk2 vehicle parties and give big piles of G at the end. Also, Rampages.
Make a Grab bag (yes, grab bag) that is costume/gear/mods only. Make one that is vehicle/vehicle weapons/vehicle mods only. See which ones sell.
Chances are, there's quite a few people who are into the vehicles for the edge they give you in a few locations. But also, I'm willing to bet that really good costumes are pretty popular. I know for one that when a costume comes out I like to get one for me and one for my friends if I can, and so I gamble a bit. I honestly don't give a damn about vehicles, and a few laps around ren center during prime time, I see very few people using them. That may just be me, though. Perception isn't reality.
I think they've done A/B testing to that extent already - the Forum Malvanum lockbox last year had a lackluster vehicle prize - a giant sandal with low slots and if I remember right, weapons weren't amazing either. So the main reason to open those were for Alien Gladiator costume pieces and the usual Legion and Mods. Of course, sandals are really good now but that's because of the Mk2 kits.
On our side, we will likely never see how that affected sales numbers, but I'm sure PWE has already drawn their conclusions and today we're feeling the effects of whatever they decided based on FM box results.
No. Spar is right, though she may not be aware of whats happening in the player market.
Vehicle prices have positively plummted in terms of vehicle costs. No you can't have links, go in and look around for yourself firsthand. You are way off the mark.
Skyfox for 5k at last check.
Strike Hawkwing for 2k and it's a consolation prize.
If that's "positively plummted" (sic), I take it you mean in a gravity-defying way, since I bought my Hawk for 3k back in the 2nd wave of vehicle boxes.
5k? Wow. Is that what you remember vehicles going for a year ago? If so I think we are done here.
Sorry, I don't count day 1 AH prices, I only count ~1 week in or more after they stabilize.
Playing something like a Radiant, or a more squishy AT? I can see how vehicles could help, just like how I can imagine how a be-critter would help.
But the Silver situation is what is at the root of the problem.
As a Silver, it's not like if someone unlocks the vehicle and wants to sell it for G's they can go and buy it, because that 250G cap is the problem. So, if they want a vehicle, they have two options...
Throw 100G's at keys, 2 at a time (that's how most of mine have sold). Use keys to buy open gamble box, pray you win a thing.
Buy an underperforming version in the C-store, which can be achieved through grinding for Questionite. If you haven't seen the Zen-Questionite exchange rate, go look at it. It's like watching the Iraqi currency drop during the invasion. It's absurd.
Considering that many Silver players are Silver players because of financial reasons, these are the normal two options.
Here's a challenge: Lift the Silver G cap. Watch the market for keys drop- not vanish, but it'd become less appealing to someone who can just take 2k G and go buy the vehicle from the Auction House. Some of them are pretty fiercely dedicated to getting currency in-game, and it'd help them a lot of they could buy things outright conveniently.
If anyone thinks that new shiny would be sold at the same pricing as regular travel powers, that's pure naivety. No. They'd be also prices at 1000+ Zen. 1k Zen travel powers. No, them being set similar to travel powers would not make them cheaper. Don't fool yourselves.
And they wouldn't be probably customisable anyway.
It's great that I can have two travel powers AND device giving me a third one. I'd never change it to only two travel powers, one with vehicle skin. I can have two useless horizontal travel powers for theme and one long range flight. For the same reason I use become critter devices with flight travel powers.
Also, it's great that vehicles CAN"T be used on interior maps. Really, it's a very good idea.
costumes I keep or give to friends
mods I keep
salvage boxes I give away
Q boxes I keep
vehicles i give away, i have several of the funnier looking ones parked in my hideout bank but I really have no use for them.
and I have one of the hawkwings from the Foxbat box which i can't even give away for free
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What you stated in your previous post weren't facts. It was pure assumption. You assumed instantly that anyone paying 4000G for a Skyfox relied on nothing but key sales to accumulate that many globals. The drop rate for the Skyfox is completely random so it's not possible to come to even an average of just how many lockboxes are being opened per Skyfox unlock. Regardless none of us know of the total Z-store vehicle sales to make any sort of credible comparison.
The vehicle exclusive to the lockbox not being the primary draw is highly subjective with regards to personal preference and is hardly concrete fact to prove that vehicles aren't bringing in any major sales.
And that's the reason why Cryptic will never put G limit raises in Z-Store.
Present situation makes people buying keys. At this moment health of ingame economy (or health of the whole CO), or making system less scam-firendly is no longer of any concern for Cryptic. Only key sales.
I'm pretty sure that if STO community also had this habit of doing everything by lockbox key trades, they would be never given money limit increases in their store. Or maybe not, since ST is not Cryptic franchise, so they have to care about the game health and longevity.
But CO is Cryptic's to do as they see fit, and at this moment it is rather obvious that Cryptic just keeps it afloat only for sales. They wrote this game off of their radars long time ago.
Vehicles don't drop as much as the full costume sets. If the demand for vehicles and costumes were the same, vehicles would still sell for more just because there aren't as many of them available for sale.
I agree that lifting the silver global limit will never happen due to keys being used as currency. Look at how many things in the AH are well over 250g. That is a lot of purchases that require keys. It's a damn shame.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Here's what happened, in a nutshell.
We said: "Vehicles would be cool as a travel power. Stuff like motorcycles and horses."
Cryptic says, "We might see if we can do this some day."
We said, "Well, if we were to use vehicles, it would be cool if we could customize them to match our characters and buy different body kits like spoilers, and it'd be awesome if they could fast-travel to different maps or parts of the map."
Cryptic says, "We're releasing vehicles. They won't be as customizable as your character, but we're releasing them."
We said, "This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to get a motorcycle! I'm gonna make it [colors] and call it [clever name]!"
Cryptic says, "Here's a Hawk Jet and some hovertanks."
We said, "O...kay. Well, it looks all right. Maybe we will get something like a motorcycle soon..."
Cryptic says, "Sorry. We can't put characters outside on the vehicles. We don't have the tech."
We said, "...you guys didn't think of this when we started? And we still can't customize them. What's the point? I want MY OWN STYLE vehicle, just like any other superhero!"
Cryptic says, "Good news, we made more flying tanks and made them slower. And we fixed something!"
We said "We can customize them?"
Cryptic says, "No. But we can put your character on the outside. Here's a jetbike."
We said, "Okay, whatever. Can we get customization? At least some variety? And can you guys make some costumes now?"
Cryptic says, "Here's some different colored jet bikes. If you buy one, we'll give you a costume part!"
We said, "Dude, you're missing the point here. CUSTOMIZABLE VEHICLES, DAMMIT."
Cryptic says, "Sorry, we don't have the tech for ground vehicles."
We said, "You're missing the point here, and- wait, what? You didn't think of this BEFORE VEHICLES WERE IMPLEMENTED? I mean, what part of 'vehicles' to you meant 'exclusively flying things'? You can't sit here and tell me that 'ground vehicles' wasn't the first, or at least the SECOND thing you had planned... right?"
Cryptic says nothing for what seems like 6 months.
We say, "Cryptic... really. Can we get something? Anything?"
Cryptic says "Cryptic North is in charge now."
We say, "Okay, fine. Cryptic North? You there? Hello? You guys... have any plans?"
Silence. For about 4 months. Finally we get some missions, and we're cool with it. Then we get some costumes and other improvements.
Cryptic North. "Okay guys. Vehicles. We're nerfing them, and then making it so that if you want to do anything with them, you have to purchase our upgrade kit! Get yours today, and don't forget to play Neverwinter Online!"
And here we are.
I ROFLed.......and this is what I recall also.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
That is so incredibly accurate. :S
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Huh, my Fire Ant MkI seems to be working just as well as it did before.
And once I get the Q to get some weapon mods my Wild Eagle and Legionnaire will have enough slots to be useful in the rampages.
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It sounded like a 'innocent enough' type of concept- where some seed of an idea was implanted into the devs (hey, some superheroes use vehicles, maybe we could add them in some capacity some time?) and it blossomed into into a trainwreck.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Green edits by me:
I think it's a bit more accurate now. :biggrin:
I was kinda upset that costume part is exclusively tied to this marketing fiasco, when they were advertising this sale.
Then I saw this helmet in advertisements.
And I was upset no longer.
I'm not sure if it's the most crappy, or only amongst the most crappiest costume parts made for CO. I know that some people have it... But I NEVER saw this fugly thing actually worn by someone. People must be really embarassed by its epic, halfassed, uglyness.
It's just like Cryptic took previously discarded stuff rotting in their drawer only to have anything to sell with the vehicles.
More or less this is true. But I'll add the they also allowed certain exploits to be used for many MANY months when they were well aware of them. One possible conclusion is this is just so they could reap as much cash from people seeking to exploit as possible. But the really infuriating part is that all of the revenue did NOT go back into Champions Online, or even trying to recruit players and developers from the City of Heroes closure. It was simple Neverwinter and Star Trek.
We have YET to see that level of investment. "Build it and they will come" as some say, but they refuse to build anything, just make more bells and whistles. And yes, costumes and vehicles and auras are all flash; they are not places to go and explore with your character. They do no add to the lore and only costumes truly add to customization.
Speaking in terms of the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology four types of gamers, PWE is failing to retain existing players or recruit newbies to the player base numbers in Champions. The break down is something like this:
New costumes sets, new action figures, new vehicles, and even some new perk titles. There is a lot PWE has added in recent years for this gamer type.
PWE has added almost nothing for these gamers! The only new maps in over a year are Sky Command, Fury of the Dragon, and Gravitar / Fire & Ice (basically the tutorial map with some minor edits).
The last new zone that you could actually EXPLORE was Vibora Bay, released years ago...
The last linear-story-based content was Whiteout, released over a year ago...
There has been ZERO effort shown by Cryptic North and no money from PWE to develop new content that can be explored. As I personally fall into this catagory a fair bit myself (I'm also somewhat a "killer" and slightly an "achiever" too), I'll contend that the one redeeming value is freeform build making. Which Freeforms are being downgraded as vehicles get more and more overpowered. Re-emphasizing freeform builds and making a new Zone to explore would be a little slice of heaven for a player like me.
Being able to make my own nemesis using a Foundry editor would be like a whole Heaven Cake! :biggrin:
Costumes, the powerhouse theater, and re-releasing a third of the old crafting instances are the only new things the social players have gotten in recent years. Promised improvements to the chat system never happened. Fortunately this group mostly relies on personal imaginations, so Roleplaying (RP) and Costume Contests can still go on without major development overhauls.
Cryptic has, or more specifically one could say individual developer (who shall not be named as per forum name & shame rules) has, gone out of their way to purge PvP from the game. The freeform system that is one of this game's best assest is actualy a hindrance in this case, but more effort could be done to buff up weaker powers and advantages or to change how some other powers interact with other powers (no nerfing needed, but say changing Strafing Run to physical damage instead of fire would fix a feedback loophole while not nerfing it) Additionally constantly having to re-gear to keep up with the Flavor of the Month is expensive and time consuming, more than what most players will like. And mostly importantly the lack of equivalent reward incentives makes it to where teamplay PvP (which has the best player retention value and diversity) is practically non-existant. Even if you do not like PvP yourself, it does add something to the game: endless combat variability, against an adaptable intelligence. Players are not predicable AI's, thus making each encounter different. On teamplay this makes healers and DPS equally valuable, and encourages strategic thinking. In short, it adds end-game content that stays fresh far long than any individual PvE mission.
Actually no... This is hasty assumption.
What we do know is that keys are (according to TrailTurtle) the "most profitable thing" they have ever done in Champions Online.
Why do I say "no"?
Because this was happening long before any vehicles were in lockboxes! Heck even Grab Bags like the "Service Grab Bag" were a huge success, according to the developers themselves. So the success isn't related to vehicles as much as it simply is that lockboxes contain jackpot loot that is in high-demand on the market. If the jackpot valuable enough, regardless of what type of item it is, people will try to get lucky.
Additionally you have to consider that if all you ever make is one flavor, eventually people who strongly dislike that flavor stop visiting and only the people who do like that flavor (or can tolerate it) remain. The feedback is going to be more an more slanted in favor of vehicles over time.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Arguably there's been a lot of glitches to discover with the powers and vehicle changes over the past year...
Thing is, they ran out of stuff to put in boxes - after Tako 1.0 what could they do? They couldn't push the next tier of gear so soon. More costumes can work but can't carry sales by itself because as you note with Bartle's breakdown, they don't appeal to all demographics. Would more ATs work? I don't know, but we haven't seen a new AT since Night Avenger. So what else could they have put into Lockboxes? Rank 4 player powers?
You know it's bad when a satirical suggestion (given as your whole response starting with comparing glitches to "content" is smart-alek in tone) is better than Vehicles.
Yes.
I would gladly take things like having the option to have Rank 4 on some of my power's advantage points than vehicles. At least that way my character is still truly customizable and stays in-theme.
If I wanted vehicles from a Cryptic game I'd just play Star Trek Online. If I wanted better vehicles implementation + infantry I'd play one of the many shooters that combine the two (and some of the most popular games in the industry I might add). Hell even a "boring" flight simulator has better gameplay implementation that vehicles in this game, we can't even get the vehicle weapons to stay in one place on the power tray -- each time you get in your vehicle you have to re-adjust for where your weapon controls are located on your keyboard!
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
No.
Because vehicles, whatever they are, are largely optional and can be safely ignored. But ignoring lockboxes with rank 4 powers would put player at bigger disadvantage than not having a vehicle.
That would be more harmful for the game than having rides that can be skipped most of the time.
As it stands, vehicles are just a poorly made cash grab that really don't seem to do anything other than promote a pay to win mentality, but even then, there aren't many situations that need them. The ones that do really don't feel natural either. To further add to the travesty that is the vehicle system, they've added the upgrade kits, which make sense in STO where vehicles are actually worthwhile (but not the asking price) and actually have the audacity to ask for more money here (where they're not even worthwhile).
Instead of pushing out this kind of terrible content, they really should have finished things like the hideouts or the nemesis system. Or at least made vehicles as travel powers rather than devices. They would have been only $5 which is still too much for how little you get, but at least closer to the vehicles actual value, not to mention actually take the time to add customization. Hell, just give us skins for travel powers that turn super speed into a motorcycle, or flight into a helicopter. Don't give us a "way less than half" assed device that doesn't really make sense.
Instead of pushing out new lockboxes or bad gimmicks to try and squeeze the money out of players, why not put the effort into actual things we want... like Power sets. As a superhero game, power sets should be the majority of what we get. Costume sets are another great addition. When are we going to be able to get the finished hideouts? or supergroup bases?
Don't over charge us for crap no one wants, and instead give us things we want to buy and we will willingly give you our money. Money that should be going back into this game, not getting sent to NW or the new project.
I agree, but vehicles were something people were asking for since back when Cryptic was working on City of Heros. It's an idea that resonates well with the genre. Not all super heroes have powers they can use to travel, or there are limitations.
People would have been happy to see their character hopping on a light speed bike when activating their travel power, or some variation of that. Basically powers that would replace one or both of the travel powers. What we got was overdeveloped and poorly implemented version of that in the form of a device.
The money saved from foregoing the development of the combat capabilities of the vehicles, that can/are hardly be used anyways, could have been spent on more variations or other things.
I guess they took a chance by trying to give us what they thought was more than what we wanted, but it backfired.
Right now they (and we) are stuck in a catch-22. They don't have the money to develop other things, and we don't want to give them money unless they do.
This whole vehicle thing ends up favoring zen buyers too much. There are several players that have stayed in this game for as long as 3 yrs. maybe you could reward then for their support? Moreover, some other games launch archetypes frequently to give champions something new to try.
I am sure almost everyone will agree that free players don't get much of a choice to play Hybrid characters.
Well I would suggest releasing some cool hybrid free AT. I am not going to deny the fact that I have a vehicle myself (got lucky with a lockbox). Do not remove vehicles as a whole but do try to spend some time with other features as well. No form of offence was meant.
Thank you.
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!