Do you have anything that supports the highlighted portion ? You seem to be claiming to speak for some silent group...and yet they don't seem to consider this to be of sufficient import to speak up for themselves. Who are these, "so many players ?"
I don't think the people who post in the PTS forums and test content on the PTS are an accurate representation of the average CO player. And I doubt those people post on the forums. But I don't think we'll know if the new rampage and system will screw over anyone until it goes live. If Fire and Ice end up as dead as Sky Command did, then we'll know the answer.
I don't think it will end up as dead for the simple fact theres at least 10 players in the game who either want justice gear badly enough or somehow agree with the stupid premise we are arguing against.
I talked to people in game, who don't get on the forums, don't go onto PTS, and they thought it was generally a good way to get the gear.
Some grumblings about having to still earn enough global to buy Cosmic Keys to unlock boxes to get the Drifter Salvage or to just buy Cosmic Keys off market.
That last part might be made up for with less Drifter Salvage requirement. If I recall, you likely get 5 Drifter Salvage with 2 keys, correct?
ANYWAY has anyone seen how much q it takes to remove rank 8 mods from justice gear?
14,000+
that's for ONE mod.
Don't worry. I didn't like UNTIL Sky Carrier mission so I had to prepare my Vehicle.
It took 3,000,000 questionites and over 10,000G plus 50 in dollar.
Don't worry. I didn't like UNTIL Sky Carrier mission so I had to prepare my Vehicle.
It took 3,000,000 questionites and over 10,000G plus 50 in dollar.
I'm so happy I lost everything AGAIN. o3o
Aww, but think of all the fun gravitar runs you can now do, to get that all back again... well except for the 50 dollar, you've lost those.... and the costume pieces don't sell so good anymore... But for the Q, you get 1500 for the first gravitar run every day, so with minimal effort that only takes 2000 days... not so bad... right?
Aww, but think of all the fun gravitar runs you can now do, to get that all back again... well except for the 50 dollar, you've lost those.... and the costume pieces don't sell so good anymore... But for the Q, you get 1500 for the first gravitar run every day, so with minimal effort that only takes 2000 days... not so bad... right?
regarding the OP's signature. yes I know its off topic.
300+ ping, sounds perfectly normal for me. MIne just tested as 375. I don't think I've ever had it below 300
justice gear won't affect me. since I don't do rampages and I don 't do what passes for end game except Nemcon . And that doens't require anything special.
I find normal gear works perfectly adequately.
ON VEHICLES FOR RAMPAGES
You don't need vehicles for Sky Command or Lemurian Invasion. Boasting about how many resources or Zen you wasted doesn't prove your point but brags about how you don't know know what you are doing when it comes to vehicles.
1kG for a decent vehicle. Some R5 or 6 vehicles mods. 8kQ each so maybe 2 vehicle powers removed from other vehicles.
If you are spending more than 3kG to get your vehicle together, a vehicle that will be top tier for any "vehicle content" that will come out within the next couple years, than you are paying top dollar from the greediest sellers.
Or you can just not use a vehicle and use the hover disks. Those don't cost you anything and you still get to keep using your character powers.
ON RAMPAGE TOKENS
Every time I ran Fire and Ice on the PTS I've always received a token. I'm not to sure on their drop rates, but if its anything like my Gravitar experience, the more you contribute the more reward you get.
However, it is entirely possible that you might only get one token per character per day no matter how many times you run it.
ON RAMPAGE TOKENS
Every time I ran Fire and Ice on the PTS I've always received a token. I'm not to sure on their drop rates, but if its anything like my Gravitar experience, the more you contribute the more reward you get.
However, it is entirely possible that you might only get one token per character per day no matter how many times you run it.
Hm so if you get one every time it'd mean you would only need to complete each one 6 times, technically just completing a rampage twice every day would get your full justice gear in the first rotation.
However if it is a drop given to whoever contributed the most I'll be about to facepalm as that is not only based off damage but the tokens are rightly not tradable meaning if I am running with my SG probably the same highest DPS people will get the drop every time while the healers and tanks or even dps who simply are not so min maxed will never get their new gear.
Aww, but think of all the fun gravitar runs you can now do, to get that all back again... well except for the 50 dollar, you've lost those.... and the costume pieces don't sell so good anymore... But for the Q, you get 1500 for the first gravitar run every day, so with minimal effort that only takes 2000 days... not so bad... right?
However if it is a drop given to whoever contributed the most I'll be about to facepalm as that is not only based off damage but the tokens are rightly not tradable meaning if I am running with my SG probably the same highest DPS people will get the drop every time while the healers and tanks or even dps who simply are not so min maxed will never get their new gear.
Since when has Gravitar ever given out anything based on performance? You get 1500q for the first run unless someone drops or gets booted out. In that case, you get a random glitch amount.
I talked to people in game, who don't get on the forums, don't go onto PTS, and they thought it was generally a good way to get the gear.
The majority of people who took the survey were references are from the major effort I made are NOT regular forum users (if at all). I can track this because of when I have broadcast on channels like coPvP, trade, CoX, Contests-Central, or even coRP; and there is an immediate spike in the survey being taken shortly after. I only have one link to it forums and the survey website shows me if they came to my survey via that link.
Doing the math, only 34% of IP addresses associated with that survey used the one link I posted on the forum, that is that they came from perfectworld.com's domain. I kind of like this SurveyMonkey website, you get a lot of solid information. (and in retrospec I'll have to do a better job streamlining)
And with that? Here's the current data as of right of me making this post:
Question #10: Do you like how Justice Gear is being implemented?
Love it. @ 50.74%
Like it. @ 19.63%
Don't care. @ 7.41%
Dislike it. @ 7.41%
Hate it. @ 14.81%
Gradii, skcarden, and Rtma (topic starter) are notably the minority, so don't take too much stock in their complaints... I'm not saying they should STFU, they're entitled to their opinions like all of us are, but they do not represent the player population. Not even close! If anything I'm noticing a trend towards MORE people liking how Justice Gear is going to be implemented, not less. I'd wager if I reset the survey and did it again from scratch you'd see even more people in favor of it. Again I stress this is not my opinion, this is YOUR opinions collectively. And by your I mean more people who don't even visit these forums than people that do. I think we can safely say that question of liking the implementation is resolved in favor of it, no?
The big question to me now is no longer if people like the implementation, but how the drop rates for the components are going to be! There is most certainly such a thing as drops being too rare (although that's partly a subjective question depending on who you ask), and it's no longer fun for well, nearly everybody (avoiding absolutes because we'll always have people who are like the Everquest farmers of old who'll do whatever it takes). If the drop rates are as bad as Cybermind, Therakiel, Warlord for the D.U. core, or Kigatilik... then Justice gear is gone to be a nuisance to farm and insanely rare & expensive.
So I think the arguments being made here are completely off target.
Instead of arguing if Justice Gear is fair and if the bonus the set gives are fair, you all should instead be asking about how accessible the component drops are going to be. Salvage won't be the limiting factor, those "crafting components" (if you can call them that) will be. So maybe we could work together and ask Cryptic to keep those drop rates reasonable? Maybe ensure those drop rates are randomly equal, and not based on where you ranked for DPS? Learn from the past and NOT make it work like Forum Malvanum's Duratok + Ironclad round where non-DPS builds are punished for not being extreme DPS enough?
I ran fire and ice a few times on PTS got nothing but q. tokens need something like a 50% flat drop chance for the first run each day.
Then a normal drop chance you mean? It could work maybe ALTHOUGH we need to be thinking about how long it will end up taking, we don't want to start a grind but we want the content to be re-playable.
You have a point, I actually want to know how exactly the drop chance is being done. I think the entire team should get one if it drops personally but that'd mean a much lower chance.
We have to remember that you need 6 tokens from each rampage. This means if you get it every time you would need to complete each one 6 times and twice a day for the 3 days that it is up. If it's a 50% chance drop for every one technically you'd be thinking of them having to do it 12 times, if it's only 50% for the first one you'll probably have to not be waiting 10 days to get your gear but 22 days and be on every day farming the rampages.
The thing with the new gear is it's only really amazing when you get the full set, once you have this it'll totally out do legions. If the drop rate is too little then I can see the gear as being a VERY hard to reach goal and something you'd need to spend over a month getting if you don't spam rampages straight for like 2 days every 3 days.
Personally, I think the newest, bestest gear should NOT be something you could get after playing for a few days.
It should be something that you end up with after a long period of rampages. Something like a month, yes.
Something that says, "dedicated players only".
There is a difference between not getting pretty much given the gear within a few days and having to spam rampages and hope you get lucky every time but find you your luck is awful. So you end up spamming it over and over for months wasting your time.
Personally, I think the newest, bestest gear should NOT be something you could get after playing for a few days.
It should be something that you end up with after a long period of rampages. Something like a month, yes.
Something that says, "dedicated players only".
There's a balance though. You will get your desired result of a month by the very nature that you can only get those special rewards by playing those rampages when they cycle around. The rarity is already controlled by nature of that cycle, you don't need to make it an additional pain in the rear by also giving it excessively low drop rate chances. And yes, I feel the current drop rate chance on the PTS is still much too rare. It needs to drop more commonly, IF that is, IF you can be victorious.
I already said that once in this topic on the previous page, didn't think I'd have to repeat my word of caution again not but a few posts later... :rolleyes:
It would be interesting to have a second vote to see what people think of justice gear after it goes live.
Why should gear be hard to get or take forever to grind for? Why does it matter? Do I get some sort of Internet points redeemable for fabulous real world cash and prizes? I'm going to agree with the 100% drop rate on tokens. If people stop doing rampages after they get their gear, then something is wrong with the rampage.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I like to have fun and will do stuff even without bribes if it entertains me.
3% drop for each Rampage run and we need 6 sets of tokens means we have to do this more then 33*6=198 win and this is so MAD i like this is so fair to everyone i love it very VERY HAPPY so guys just queue for everything!! o3o
The majority of people who took the survey were references are from the major effort I made are NOT regular forum users (if at all). I can track this because of when I have broadcast on channels like coPvP, trade, CoX, Contests-Central, or even coRP; and there is an immediate spike in the survey being taken shortly after. I only have one link to it forums and the survey website shows me if they came to my survey via that link.
Doing the math, only 34% of IP addresses associated with that survey used the one link I posted on the forum, that is that they came from perfectworld.com's domain. I kind of like this SurveyMonkey website, you get a lot of solid information. (and in retrospec I'll have to do a better job streamlining)
And with that? Here's the current data as of right of me making this post:
Question #10: Do you like how Justice Gear is being implemented?
Love it. @ 50.74%
Like it. @ 19.63%
Don't care. @ 7.41%
Dislike it. @ 7.41%
Hate it. @ 14.81%
Gradii, skcarden, and Rtma (topic starter) are notably the minority, so don't take too much stock in their complaints... I'm not saying they should STFU, they're entitled to their opinions like all of us are, but they do not represent the player population. Not even close! If anything I'm noticing a trend towards MORE people liking how Justice Gear is going to be implemented, not less. I'd wager if I reset the survey and did it again from scratch you'd see even more people in favor of it. Again I stress this is not my opinion, this is YOUR opinions collectively. And by your I mean more people who don't even visit these forums than people that do. I think we can safely say that question of liking the implementation is resolved in favor of it, no?
The big question to me now is no longer if people like the implementation, but how the drop rates for the components are going to be! There is most certainly such a thing as drops being too rare (although that's partly a subjective question depending on who you ask), and it's no longer fun for well, nearly everybody (avoiding absolutes because we'll always have people who are like the Everquest farmers of old who'll do whatever it takes). If the drop rates are as bad as Cybermind, Therakiel, Warlord for the D.U. core, or Kigatilik... then Justice gear is gone to be a nuisance to farm and insanely rare & expensive.
So I think the arguments being made here are completely off target.
Instead of arguing if Justice Gear is fair and if the bonus the set gives are fair, you all should instead be asking about how accessible the component drops are going to be. Salvage won't be the limiting factor, those "crafting components" (if you can call them that) will be. So maybe we could work together and ask Cryptic to keep those drop rates reasonable? Maybe ensure those drop rates are randomly equal, and not based on where you ranked for DPS? Learn from the past and NOT make it work like Forum Malvanum's Duratok + Ironclad round where non-DPS builds are punished for not being extreme DPS enough?
Just saying...
That is War and Peace. That is not just saying.
Just saying
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
3% drop for each Rampage run and we need 6 sets of tokens means we have to do this more then 33*6=198 win and this is so MAD i like this is so fair to everyone i love it very VERY HAPPY so guys just queue for everything!! o3o
Gradii, skcarden, and Rtma (topic starter) are notably the minority, so don't take too much stock in their complaints... I'm not saying they should STFU, they're entitled to their opinions like all of us are, but they do not represent the player population. Not even close! If anything I'm noticing a trend towards MORE people liking how Justice Gear is going to be implemented, not less. I'd wager if I reset the survey and did it again from scratch you'd see even more people in favor of it. Again I stress this is not my opinion, this is YOUR opinions collectively. And by your I mean more people who don't even visit these forums than people that do. I think we can safely say that question of liking the implementation is resolved in favor of it, no?
Eh.. Your survey is badly done.. so should we not take much stock in your findings?
FYI, i wasn't even complaining and you spelt my name wrong.
1.) The 3% is a made-up number. I've gotten 1 token in 2 runs = 50% (very small sample).
2.) You need 8 tokens per gear piece, not 6.
3.) What are you "timesing by 4"? Are you trying to factor in that there are 3 primary gear slots?
If the drop rate for tokens is in the 33% to 50% range with costume pieces being much more rare, I think it's perfectly reasonable. You don't want the majority of people to stop queuing for the alerts after 2 weeks because they already have their gear.
P.S. Probability statistics don't really work that way. Stay in school. :-)
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
1.) The 3% is a made-up number. I've gotten 1 token in 2 runs = 50% (very small sample).
2.) You need 8 tokens per gear piece, not 6.
3.) What are you "timesing by 4"? Are you trying to factor in that there are 3 primary gear slots?
If the drop rate for tokens is in the 33% to 50% range with costume pieces being much more rare, I think it's perfectly reasonable. You don't want the majority of people to stop queuing for the alerts after 2 weeks because they already have their gear.
P.S. Probability statistics don't really work that way. Stay in school. :-)
Wow okay you took me and jewel way too seriously here with the random numbers. ;D
But statistics also don't work where you take 2 samples and get 1, how can you call that reliable.
Also as for the 4, you need 2 tokens each item right? This is where the 6 came from, 2*3, like magic. Anyway, then there are 4 different rampages meaning 4 different types of tokens.
Lastly, as I said in the other thread. CO is extremely alt heavy. Jewel here has over 70 40's now or so? I think it's something like that, of course jewel wont be wanting the best gear on all but maybe just the main 5 of so characters. Still if you have a 33% chance drop rate you'll "technically" need to do it 3 times to get a token, you need an overall of 24 tokens meaning "technically" you'll need to do 72 of the various rampages per full set. That is 33% which I think it is less than at it's current state. We had a team of 6 in fire and ice and yet only 1 person got a token. So if it's going to end up being so based on luck then I'll expect to see some unlucky sod doing their 40th run of lemurian invasion to get the last token they need.
P.S. Patronising people doesn't really work that way. Stay in the moral low ground. :-)
Don't worry, CO will still be that way. You won't have to do Rampages if they're not fun for you. Heck, if they're no fun for you, what reason do you have to do them? Justice Gear? If you're not doing rampages, you don't need Justice Gear. Heck, even if you are doing rampages you don't need justice gear.
Ultimately you have to ask yourself... why do you want Justice Gear?
Old argument that raiders bring up in every game .. why do you want gear that makes you 200% stronger if you don't raid ?
And then they farm the same non-raid content like you, but of course in 30% of the time and so make 3 times more money. Or solo / duo Dungeons for that you need a full group of six.
Wow okay you took me and jewel way too seriously here with the random numbers. ;D
I thought when you called attention to this thread from the one on PTS, it was because you wanted to be taken seriously. I stand corrected though, carry on.
A sample of two is not very reliable, but it's infinitely more reliable than pulling 3% out of your imagination.
I don't really mean to be a jerk, I just don't think it's very constructive to try to stir people up with bad assumptions/math.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I don't want a ridiculous grind for Justice Gear. I said something like a month of regular play seems good to get the absolute top end gear.
Someone that plays a lot might get a full set of gear in a couple weeks. Sounds good to me.
I myself have over thirty alts. I don't feel the need to fully equip every single one with maximum gear. Only my main has all Legions, Vigilantes, and R8 mods. Another few toons have mix of Legions/Heroic, purple secondaries, and R7 mods.
The time to achieve a full set of Justice Gear should NOT be based on players with 20, 30, or 50+ alts.
A sample of two is not very reliable, but it's infinitely more reliable than pulling 3% out of your imagination.
I thought when you called attention to this thread from the one on PTS, it was because you wanted to be taken seriously. I stand corrected though, carry on.
I just don't think it's very constructive to try to stir people up with bad assumptions/math.
I called people to this thread to say how stupid the grind for the gear is, the numbers are irrelevant as no one currently knows the drop rate, how could we? FYI I never even said 3% that was jewel, I said the number 4 which is the amount of rampages there are to add to the joke of it.
Fact is after doing the same thing that takes 20-30 minutes for the 30th time you really are going to feel like just typing /killme and be done with it. I don't think this is how we want thing.
I am all for hard content, I am all for gear being hard to get. I am not all for a month's grinding, doing 3-5 rampages a day.
The only thing I am not psyched for is needing four more types of currency. I would prefer one type. Like Rampage token. I get why they are doing it the way they are, but I just find it a little annoying.
Private Queues will make Rampages more enjoyable for me as I can set up teams with a bunch of Super group members, so that is a big win.
I am looking forward to Justice gear for numbers sake. I like getting high numbers on my characters. I take pride in that, even though I dont do much with having high stats. I don't PVP or hold them above my peers. I just take pride in getting the character to an impressive score.
I don't really run Rampages because currently there is nothing to do them for. These plans give me a reason to run them. Fun costume pieces and new gear. So thanks CRyptic North. I am looking forward to these changes going live.
I have a question. What are you going to do once you're done grinding for the Justice Gear? Anything different?
The length of a road is irrelevant if at the end of that road you just keep walking on a road exactly like it.
Nope. Not a darn thing different. I'll continue to go for the costumes and other drops. Once I am done with that I will do what I always do. RP, or help my friends grind for what they want.
The time to achieve a full set of Justice Gear should NOT be based on players with 20, 30, or 50+ alts.
Why not? Isn't CO the superhero MMO of choice for Alt Addicts? Why should I need to spend a month gearing each one of my toons just because I want new gear?
Using humor to make a point seems legit to me. You can make a serious point without resorting to being serious.
I also agree with the more freaking currency point. I know it's the cool thing all the MMOs are doing, but it's still icky. Please stop adding more pointless currencies to the game. I think we have more than enough. The effort spent trying to keep people playing by jumping through hoops with bribes would be better spent making content so much fun no one cares about the reward.
I don't remember seeing this, but is Justice gear BoE?
Pretty much sums it up for me as well. I have a fair number of alts and most of them will never have more than SCRs with rank 5 (maybe 6) mods, and standard lvl 40 secondaries. A month or so of reasonable effort to get a full set of Justice Gear for 1 hero seems about right.
I don't want a ridiculous grind for Justice Gear. I said something like a month of regular play seems good to get the absolute top end gear.
Someone that plays a lot might get a full set of gear in a couple weeks. Sounds good to me.
I myself have over thirty alts. I don't feel the need to fully equip every single one with maximum gear. Only my main has all Legions, Vigilantes, and R8 mods. Another few toons have mix of Legions/Heroic, purple secondaries, and R7 mods.
The time to achieve a full set of Justice Gear should NOT be based on players with 20, 30, or 50+ alts.
I have a question. What are you going to do once you're done grinding for the Justice Gear? Anything different?
The length of a road is irrelevant if at the end of that road you just keep walking on a road exactly like it.
And yet you well know how anyone who has this gear is automatically going to boast about how "amazing" they are at "PvP"
I personally want to run it with SG members and friends most of the time if not all of the time however it's going to get fairly tedious for us farming the same thing 40 times so everyone will get their tokens.
Ah well I don't care anymore, let it be whatever difficulty they make it to get. <.< We'll see how it all turns out.
I'm sorry, I can't see this working if it took a month to gear up just one toon. Which is a good reason why the tokens are bound to account and not character. I have 70+ toons, I don't want to spend 70+ months to gear them all up. That would be to tedious.
The reason it would take a month is due to the Rampages being on a rotation. I bet you can just do the same one multiple times and bank a dozen tokens. Do that for each one, then gear up multiple characters at once.
Comments
I don't think the people who post in the PTS forums and test content on the PTS are an accurate representation of the average CO player. And I doubt those people post on the forums. But I don't think we'll know if the new rampage and system will screw over anyone until it goes live. If Fire and Ice end up as dead as Sky Command did, then we'll know the answer.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I talked to people in game, who don't get on the forums, don't go onto PTS, and they thought it was generally a good way to get the gear.
Some grumblings about having to still earn enough global to buy Cosmic Keys to unlock boxes to get the Drifter Salvage or to just buy Cosmic Keys off market.
That last part might be made up for with less Drifter Salvage requirement. If I recall, you likely get 5 Drifter Salvage with 2 keys, correct?
The last time someone tested this I think it averaged to 2.78 salvage per lockbox.
So a good bet on 5 Drifter Salvage with two keys
Don't worry. I didn't like UNTIL Sky Carrier mission so I had to prepare my Vehicle.
It took 3,000,000 questionites and over 10,000G plus 50 in dollar.
I'm so happy I lost everything AGAIN. o3o
Aww, but think of all the fun gravitar runs you can now do, to get that all back again... well except for the 50 dollar, you've lost those.... and the costume pieces don't sell so good anymore... But for the Q, you get 1500 for the first gravitar run every day, so with minimal effort that only takes 2000 days... not so bad... right?
Yeee! I'm enjoying this. xD
300+ ping, sounds perfectly normal for me. MIne just tested as 375. I don't think I've ever had it below 300
justice gear won't affect me. since I don't do rampages and I don 't do what passes for end game except Nemcon . And that doens't require anything special.
I find normal gear works perfectly adequately.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You don't need vehicles for Sky Command or Lemurian Invasion. Boasting about how many resources or Zen you wasted doesn't prove your point but brags about how you don't know know what you are doing when it comes to vehicles.
1kG for a decent vehicle. Some R5 or 6 vehicles mods. 8kQ each so maybe 2 vehicle powers removed from other vehicles.
If you are spending more than 3kG to get your vehicle together, a vehicle that will be top tier for any "vehicle content" that will come out within the next couple years, than you are paying top dollar from the greediest sellers.
Or you can just not use a vehicle and use the hover disks. Those don't cost you anything and you still get to keep using your character powers.
ON RAMPAGE TOKENS
Every time I ran Fire and Ice on the PTS I've always received a token. I'm not to sure on their drop rates, but if its anything like my Gravitar experience, the more you contribute the more reward you get.
However, it is entirely possible that you might only get one token per character per day no matter how many times you run it.
Hm so if you get one every time it'd mean you would only need to complete each one 6 times, technically just completing a rampage twice every day would get your full justice gear in the first rotation.
However if it is a drop given to whoever contributed the most I'll be about to facepalm as that is not only based off damage but the tokens are rightly not tradable meaning if I am running with my SG probably the same highest DPS people will get the drop every time while the healers and tanks or even dps who simply are not so min maxed will never get their new gear.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Easy come easy go.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I hope the devs aren't making that sort of mistake.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
On the contrary. I would always get more rewards from Gravitar by using my tank or sometimes more with my pure healer.
And I only tested Fire and Ice with my main tank and my healer and got a token every time.
Is there something to indicate that this is the case? Why would they even attempt that?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
The majority of people who took the survey were references are from the major effort I made are NOT regular forum users (if at all). I can track this because of when I have broadcast on channels like coPvP, trade, CoX, Contests-Central, or even coRP; and there is an immediate spike in the survey being taken shortly after. I only have one link to it forums and the survey website shows me if they came to my survey via that link.
Doing the math, only 34% of IP addresses associated with that survey used the one link I posted on the forum, that is that they came from perfectworld.com's domain. I kind of like this SurveyMonkey website, you get a lot of solid information. (and in retrospec I'll have to do a better job streamlining)
And with that? Here's the current data as of right of me making this post:
Question #10: Do you like how Justice Gear is being implemented?
Gradii, skcarden, and Rtma (topic starter) are notably the minority, so don't take too much stock in their complaints... I'm not saying they should STFU, they're entitled to their opinions like all of us are, but they do not represent the player population. Not even close! If anything I'm noticing a trend towards MORE people liking how Justice Gear is going to be implemented, not less. I'd wager if I reset the survey and did it again from scratch you'd see even more people in favor of it. Again I stress this is not my opinion, this is YOUR opinions collectively. And by your I mean more people who don't even visit these forums than people that do. I think we can safely say that question of liking the implementation is resolved in favor of it, no?
The big question to me now is no longer if people like the implementation, but how the drop rates for the components are going to be! There is most certainly such a thing as drops being too rare (although that's partly a subjective question depending on who you ask), and it's no longer fun for well, nearly everybody (avoiding absolutes because we'll always have people who are like the Everquest farmers of old who'll do whatever it takes). If the drop rates are as bad as Cybermind, Therakiel, Warlord for the D.U. core, or Kigatilik... then Justice gear is gone to be a nuisance to farm and insanely rare & expensive.
So I think the arguments being made here are completely off target.
Instead of arguing if Justice Gear is fair and if the bonus the set gives are fair, you all should instead be asking about how accessible the component drops are going to be. Salvage won't be the limiting factor, those "crafting components" (if you can call them that) will be. So maybe we could work together and ask Cryptic to keep those drop rates reasonable? Maybe ensure those drop rates are randomly equal, and not based on where you ranked for DPS? Learn from the past and NOT make it work like Forum Malvanum's Duratok + Ironclad round where non-DPS builds are punished for not being extreme DPS enough?
Just saying...
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Then a normal drop chance you mean? It could work maybe ALTHOUGH we need to be thinking about how long it will end up taking, we don't want to start a grind but we want the content to be re-playable.
You have a point, I actually want to know how exactly the drop chance is being done. I think the entire team should get one if it drops personally but that'd mean a much lower chance.
We have to remember that you need 6 tokens from each rampage. This means if you get it every time you would need to complete each one 6 times and twice a day for the 3 days that it is up. If it's a 50% chance drop for every one technically you'd be thinking of them having to do it 12 times, if it's only 50% for the first one you'll probably have to not be waiting 10 days to get your gear but 22 days and be on every day farming the rampages.
The thing with the new gear is it's only really amazing when you get the full set, once you have this it'll totally out do legions. If the drop rate is too little then I can see the gear as being a VERY hard to reach goal and something you'd need to spend over a month getting if you don't spam rampages straight for like 2 days every 3 days.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It should be something that you end up with after a long period of rampages. Something like a month, yes.
Something that says, "dedicated players only".
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
There's a balance though. You will get your desired result of a month by the very nature that you can only get those special rewards by playing those rampages when they cycle around. The rarity is already controlled by nature of that cycle, you don't need to make it an additional pain in the rear by also giving it excessively low drop rate chances. And yes, I feel the current drop rate chance on the PTS is still much too rare. It needs to drop more commonly, IF that is, IF you can be victorious.
I already said that once in this topic on the previous page, didn't think I'd have to repeat my word of caution again not but a few posts later... :rolleyes:
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
With the current drop rate I see it as taking like 30 times or more for some people to get all their tokens from each one...
That's crazy.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Why should gear be hard to get or take forever to grind for? Why does it matter? Do I get some sort of Internet points redeemable for fabulous real world cash and prizes? I'm going to agree with the 100% drop rate on tokens. If people stop doing rampages after they get their gear, then something is wrong with the rampage.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I like to have fun and will do stuff even without bribes if it entertains me.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
That is War and Peace. That is not just saying.
Just saying
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You forgot to times that by 4.
It is just, mad and extremely unreasonable.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Eh.. Your survey is badly done.. so should we not take much stock in your findings?
FYI, i wasn't even complaining and you spelt my name wrong.
1.) The 3% is a made-up number. I've gotten 1 token in 2 runs = 50% (very small sample).
2.) You need 8 tokens per gear piece, not 6.
3.) What are you "timesing by 4"? Are you trying to factor in that there are 3 primary gear slots?
If the drop rate for tokens is in the 33% to 50% range with costume pieces being much more rare, I think it's perfectly reasonable. You don't want the majority of people to stop queuing for the alerts after 2 weeks because they already have their gear.
P.S. Probability statistics don't really work that way. Stay in school. :-)
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Wow okay you took me and jewel way too seriously here with the random numbers. ;D
But statistics also don't work where you take 2 samples and get 1, how can you call that reliable.
Also as for the 4, you need 2 tokens each item right? This is where the 6 came from, 2*3, like magic. Anyway, then there are 4 different rampages meaning 4 different types of tokens.
Lastly, as I said in the other thread. CO is extremely alt heavy. Jewel here has over 70 40's now or so? I think it's something like that, of course jewel wont be wanting the best gear on all but maybe just the main 5 of so characters. Still if you have a 33% chance drop rate you'll "technically" need to do it 3 times to get a token, you need an overall of 24 tokens meaning "technically" you'll need to do 72 of the various rampages per full set. That is 33% which I think it is less than at it's current state. We had a team of 6 in fire and ice and yet only 1 person got a token. So if it's going to end up being so based on luck then I'll expect to see some unlucky sod doing their 40th run of lemurian invasion to get the last token they need.
P.S. Patronising people doesn't really work that way. Stay in the moral low ground. :-)
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Old argument that raiders bring up in every game .. why do you want gear that makes you 200% stronger if you don't raid ?
And then they farm the same non-raid content like you, but of course in 30% of the time and so make 3 times more money. Or solo / duo Dungeons for that you need a full group of six.
I thought when you called attention to this thread from the one on PTS, it was because you wanted to be taken seriously. I stand corrected though, carry on.
A sample of two is not very reliable, but it's infinitely more reliable than pulling 3% out of your imagination.
I don't really mean to be a jerk, I just don't think it's very constructive to try to stir people up with bad assumptions/math.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Someone that plays a lot might get a full set of gear in a couple weeks. Sounds good to me.
I myself have over thirty alts. I don't feel the need to fully equip every single one with maximum gear. Only my main has all Legions, Vigilantes, and R8 mods. Another few toons have mix of Legions/Heroic, purple secondaries, and R7 mods.
The time to achieve a full set of Justice Gear should NOT be based on players with 20, 30, or 50+ alts.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I called people to this thread to say how stupid the grind for the gear is, the numbers are irrelevant as no one currently knows the drop rate, how could we? FYI I never even said 3% that was jewel, I said the number 4 which is the amount of rampages there are to add to the joke of it.
Fact is after doing the same thing that takes 20-30 minutes for the 30th time you really are going to feel like just typing /killme and be done with it. I don't think this is how we want thing.
I am all for hard content, I am all for gear being hard to get. I am not all for a month's grinding, doing 3-5 rampages a day.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Private Queues will make Rampages more enjoyable for me as I can set up teams with a bunch of Super group members, so that is a big win.
I am looking forward to Justice gear for numbers sake. I like getting high numbers on my characters. I take pride in that, even though I dont do much with having high stats. I don't PVP or hold them above my peers. I just take pride in getting the character to an impressive score.
I don't really run Rampages because currently there is nothing to do them for. These plans give me a reason to run them. Fun costume pieces and new gear. So thanks CRyptic North. I am looking forward to these changes going live.
The length of a road is irrelevant if at the end of that road you just keep walking on a road exactly like it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nope. Not a darn thing different. I'll continue to go for the costumes and other drops. Once I am done with that I will do what I always do. RP, or help my friends grind for what they want.
Why not? Isn't CO the superhero MMO of choice for Alt Addicts? Why should I need to spend a month gearing each one of my toons just because I want new gear?
Using humor to make a point seems legit to me. You can make a serious point without resorting to being serious.
I also agree with the more freaking currency point. I know it's the cool thing all the MMOs are doing, but it's still icky. Please stop adding more pointless currencies to the game. I think we have more than enough. The effort spent trying to keep people playing by jumping through hoops with bribes would be better spent making content so much fun no one cares about the reward.
I don't remember seeing this, but is Justice gear BoE?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
And yet you well know how anyone who has this gear is automatically going to boast about how "amazing" they are at "PvP"
I personally want to run it with SG members and friends most of the time if not all of the time however it's going to get fairly tedious for us farming the same thing 40 times so everyone will get their tokens.
Ah well I don't care anymore, let it be whatever difficulty they make it to get. <.< We'll see how it all turns out.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)