test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
How is this going to be Fair?
rtma
Posts: 1,200 Arc User
I'm Concerned and I've tested your Precious Justice Gear and found the difference, Disturbing, it's bad enough that those that don't MinMax are left behind to struggle but this just adds insult to injury, I'll show you a links with two Exact builds, one using Heroic Gear the other, Justice.... If I can put that much of a difference, I'm rather Average, I can only imagine what you better builders can pull off, it's going to be greater despair, Getting that feeling 'Get Justice Gear or suffer, Hard'...
Granted it's to entice queuing Rampage Alerts and I guess something for those that are bored at 40, but once those that reap the rewards then move on, how is this going to help others?
Heroic Gear
Justice Gear
Granted it's to entice queuing Rampage Alerts and I guess something for those that are bored at 40, but once those that reap the rewards then move on, how is this going to help others?
Heroic Gear
Justice Gear
Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Post edited by rtma on
0
Comments
Also, what is preventing people from doing Rampage alerts?
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
What about playing CO in general, PvP, Alerts, Content, getting that Adapt or Die vibe... not to mention probing for money. :P
Well lets see, how to sum it up, Content that those grind to unlock items would not bother anymore since they and all their friends have got them while new comers, if interested, how are they going to get help to say TT and such when On Alert came out, who will help then? basically once people get what they want they'll either stick with what they got or only help their friends with upcoming Private Que, feels like Discrimination.
Premature perhaps, but who do you think will gain rewards better? an Average Build or MinMax?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
First of all, was this truly a fair test? Was it all the same r7's in the gears?
Second, why do you care about how strong others are? You don't really PvP at all and in PvE it's pretty much and justice is much better than heroic anyway. It's not exactly like this new gear is pay to win at all. The entire point is it is gear progression, when someone gets to level 40 they'll first probably try and get full heroic and maybe some legions if they have the G or money. Then they can move onto the next tier of gear. That's how MMO's work, you progress your character instead of being stuck the same and limited forever.
Oh also anyone noticed this?
'Token drops are bound to account when acquired.'
Interesting.
As I said, it isn't pay to win. You get it from playing the game, that isn't "not to mention probing for money. :P" I would call it more so probing to get more people into rampages which are technically suppose to be the raids on CO in other words the hardest content in the game.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Most of my toons do not have Legion gear, and some heroic, and some don't.
No biggie.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Hmm True, Yes they were all lvl 7's had to fill in the 4th slot with something that would balance it out, like their wouldn't be much point of adding 2 l7 Gambler Gems to Primary Defense to I used 1 Impact Prism and 1 Gambler Gem, you can see what difference it makes, Would this be something of a staging area for and if they add new zones with increased level cap in mind? like 40 - 50? Maybe... I'm just concerned others having a fair go then the next level of gear leaving others another step behind, While contributing to Alerts or of the sort, as for PvP Hahaha, I'll leave that between you PvP Players. x3
Not a lot of people play but I like doing Rampages Periodically, Do you?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
I noticed it... i also noticed the text before it:
Justice Gear
Justice Gear returns as a reward for playing Rampages.
Collect tokens from all four Rampages to purchase Justice Gear pieces.
There is also a small Drifter Salvage cost.
Token drops are bound to account when acquired.
Specifically the drifter salvage cost.. Not pay to win, huh? of course it's not, when you leave out the details
You can Buy [Crate of Drifter Salvage] from Auction House and other players, each crates gives 10 Drifter Salvage!
and you don't have to spend money on keys and lockboxes
'
Say again? it's not a big deal if you think about it!
You know what would be UNFAIR, if the Justice gear were ONLY from lockboxes like Legion gear, THEN it would be PAY TO WIN! and REALLY LOW Marketing Strategy
But with the current Rampage system they suggested it's not, you have to WORK to Earn it! You have to WORK to earn the BEST GEAR IN A MMO!
This is what we've been asking for... gear that you get for completing content, rather than gambling with lockboxes. I mean, if you don't even want to run content... then why would you care if there's gear involved at all? RPing in Club Caprice doesn't take gear.
What's not fair, and this isn't new or anything, is that PvPers will be forced to do PvE to get gear that they will use in PvP. However, I agree with not putting it in as a PvP reward... YET. First they need to fix the queues and finish up whatever balance adjustments they're making, then they can add in a nice big fat Acclaim grind to get the gear... a grind that would make any non-pvper go "No way, I'll just do Rampages...".
Overall, this is a good change... no, a great change. Still, I look forward to being completely bedazzled by the ability of people to complain about anything.
And just to add to that... we still won't have to work as hard here in CO as those other MMOs make you work. I invite anyone who thinks this is too much work to go play Tera and deal with their gambling-based enchanting system, which is the most important part of gear progression over there. After they've tried to enchant their gear for the 300th time and failed, they can come back here... the intersection of Casual Blvd. and Easy St.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Yeah I gotta agree with you on that one, but it makes the optimist in me hope that we may actually get some content to use it on.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I remember in another MMO, the upgrading system for things like your mount or pets was a harsh gamble. If you failed, the thing you were trying to upgrade would lose a rank.
Much nicer here.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Pffft what a load of over blown hyper bowl if your struggling your doing something really wrong all my toons bar one run with the majority of there gear being world drops and do fine.
I'd rather acclaim be magically turned into questionite. But that's because having 50 billion different currencies in every mmo ever is annoying. Seriously, can't we just have two or three?
Edit: I see that you actually have to have drifter trash AND tokens. That I'm not fond of, but I don't see it as a big deal either. It also seems kind of silly. Why not just sell it for drifter trash OR tokens?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Champions is a very simple and easy mmo to play. You can PVE quite comfortably with nothing but green and blue random drops.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Tell me where i can personally farm these items then, without spending money, or without buying it off of another play. Because if it's only origin source is from a cosmic key, it's paid for, doesn't matter if you didn't, someone else did.
Point is, we still don't have any gear that we can actually earn by ourselves without having to spend real money for the zen for the boxes.
I've been gone a while.. i've only ever seen these drifter salvage crates on the winter mockbox list, is that it's only source of obtaining?
So answer this... which do you care about more:
1) how you can PERSONALLY acquire it without spending money
or
2) how you can acquire it without ANYONE spending any money
Hint: It's none of your business if someone else decides to spend their money. You're not doing them any favors by refusing to buy the Zen that they're selling.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The 10 DS per Justice gear is so small that its not really a big deal. It just helps push lockbox sales that much more. This is a good thing. If the community can't learn to be positive about lockboxes (as long as their drops continue to be awesome and not utter garbage) then I guess we can go back to no content for years at a time again.
Both your questions make no sense.. are you trying to imply that 1, i only care about myself or 2 that i shouldn't care about others?
None of my business? Yes it is. Why? because it's designed that there's no possible way for me to acquire this high level gear without either spending my own real money, or getting it from someone else spending real money. All i did was say it's still pay to win. Which it is.
I just find it tiring that they are always involving some cost of real money into getting the best gear. It's fine for costumes because it's purely cosmetic, and while still annoying, it's not as bad as doing it with the high level gear.. but then again... i suppose that's the price for the elitist attitude "I paid so i'm better"
I think you're overlooking the bigger picture here.
Yes, drifters salvage does cost money. Either directly from you, or through buying it from another player, or even through grinding the Q to pay for keys. Leaving out that what I spend my money on is my concern, and not yours, this is the truth.
What you are overlooking, is that Cryptic has lockboxes as their primary form of income from this game, and that without selling at least a few of them, they aren't equipped to continue to provide this 'free' game to you. They have employees to pay, servers to maintain, and future projects to fund. This is also the truth.
Now, the question becomes, do you want to pay for the game in this manner? If not, then yes by all means, carry on not having the latest and greatest in gear. None of this games content requires justice gear to survive, and you will still perform adequately with whatever they produce in the future, simply because elite gear will never be adopted by everyone, and Cryptic is too invested in the non elitist branch of this game's community to gate content against them.
Now, speaking for myself, I'm delighted to have something new to work towards. I've already got my characters lined up and waiting for gear runs, and I intend to have a blast collecting the new equipment, which unlike the old equipment, won't require literally days of slow, tedious solo grind. This new gear will actually get me engaged with playing the game, possibly picking up a new guild, and getting invested back into a community that seems to have gotten a bit stale of late. I personally am very excited.
Oh and I love not having to run UNITY any more. That is also awesome.
A couple bucks or a few days farming questionite if you don't have globals to access availability isn't alot too ask of a player. Getting gear should require some effort. Does it cost real money after all is said and done? Sure. So what? Games need to make money. People put money into the various exchanges in Cryptic games. The Luddites, if there ever were any, lost and went home.
This is what it is now and all things considered seems more than fair imo. Of the 3 games Cryptic handles, give STO and NW a try. I'm not shilling, they are seriously good games. Look, examine, and study those 2 others, and you'll see CO has much more daylight between casual and pay to win than it's related games, and miles more than some other mmos.
Basically cryptic needed a way to make money still and they weren't going to make lockboxes meaningless, this is why the drifter salvage thing has been done.
Most likely if you are farming alerts / rampages you may get a good drop anyway to fund the need for keys. Someone else can buy those for you, so I wouldn't call it pay to win at all.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
How to obtain Justice Gear without spending a single dollar.
Obtain the Cosmic Key that's being sold on the AH by me, don't worry, I didn't spend any extra cash on it, as I get a monthly stipend (LTS since day 1), buy some keys with it and put them on the market.
I also take my monthly stipend and put it on the Questionite Store to convert my ZEN to Questionite at times.
Sooo, there you go. You can obtain everything in game without you or another player spending any extra money.
Now, if you say a person being a sub or a LTS was spending money, I think you just need to step away from all MMOs.
I bet its Fake cos the game dont have those Slim Beast and Brick and Athlete body optios. and He dont play very good.
very beutiful. Beutiful but Fair.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Oh, here we go... because i point out that it's still actually another pay to win item i'm somehow "a free player" ? So nice of you to assume that just because i don't agree with you that i'm somehow only trying to expect to get everything in the game for free... you realise, prior to this whole mockbox charade there was a C-store, and guess what? it did EXACTLY what you're saying lockboxes does. Provides funding for the game through people spending money. all it's done is require you to spend more money untill you finally get the exact item you're after, or you give up because after 100 keys you still didn't get the loot you were after and there's never going to be an option for a direct purchase.
And for the record, i'm actually gold. but don't let that fact stop you from talking down at me as i'm "you're just a silver who expects a free game for nothing". to which i will also add i actually do buy things too. but again.. don't let that stop you from your instant and baseless assumptions.
They weren't questions... they were options. And I wasn't trying to imply either of those things, I was trying to figure out which one was your priority since you referenced them both in your own post. You said both "how can I acquire them without spending money" and "I dont want anyone else spending money". So unless you don't want anyone spending money ever on this game (which would be weird if you're a subscriber) then one of these has to be more important to you than the other.
No it's actually not any of your business. If I go and buy 2000 Zen and spent it on cosmic keys to open lockboxes, then that's none of your business. If you come to me and say "Listen, you shouldn't do that because I care about you" I'm going to think you're some sort of egotistical weirdo. Nobody is being forced to spend this money to get this gear... hell, they're not even being particularly motivated to farm for it.
Here's where your argument truly falls apart. "I paid so i'm better"
What if I'm not the one who paid? "Someone else paid for something so i'm better" Sweet, someone else paid for me to win.
Oh wait... pay to WIN? what exactly are you going to be paying to win that you aren't winning already? Is there content in the game that can't be completed without Justice Gear? Is there content in the game that can't be completed without Legion gear? Is there content in the game that can't be completed without Heroic gear? Is there content in the game that can't be completed without level 40 Blue gear? Is there content in the game that can't be completed without level 40 Green gear? Is there content in the game that can't be completed withouy level 40 gear?
So again... where does the "win" in "pay to win" come in?
And how is "pay to win" bad if it's someone else paying for me to win?
Also, "I paid so I'm better".... better than what? better than who? The other players doing the pve content with you who really couldn't care less how much better your numbers are than theirs?
Ultimately, EVERYONE is going to have this gear, because everyone has the ability to que for rampages, eventually get all the tokens, and then get enough Drifter Salvage to get the gear.
So in essense... it's "Some people pay and everybody wins". And what's wrong with that? How is that going to be unfair? Would you rather we stay with our current Legion Lottery method or go back to the "Heroics Only, your progression stops here" method?
This is a brilliant move on their part that keeps money coming in but also doesn't force us to gamble for gear. This is what we've been asking for.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Essentially it will cost around 1500g if buying keys from players for the full set along with the tokens? Am I right?
Although with all the costumes and things you can get, you may get more than one or maybe even one that you don't really "need" so could sell to get the G for the keys. I don't understand the mentality of not paying much towards the game, of course the game isn't fully free at all that would be madness and simply wouldn't work. I'd rather them see that something that isn't just "open the lockbox and never do any gameplay" can still generate a good amount of income for the game.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
No, you asked questions.. you said "so anwer me this, do you either a or b" you expressly told me to give you an answer, you did not, "ask me options" as you're now trying to claim.
I asked "how can i acquire these without spending money" to make my point.. since you clearly don't know what a 'question' is, i wouldn't expect you to understand what a rhetorical question is either, but it's simply this.. i asked it in such a way to counter the argument that it's not paytowin because no money is involved. when all origin sources for drifter salvage revolve around spending money in some way shape or form.
I never said "i don't want people spending money on this game" so don't make absurd notions.
And no, i'll agree.. when the topic is "someone spent money on lockboxes and kept it all to themselves" then it's not my business what they do. Nor do i care. But that was never the topic. You decided to pick a contextual scenario to pretend you are right. But clearly if i keep explaining why "it is my business" to this context you'll just keep arguing regardless.. so i'll simply re-iterate.. as the context initially was before you said "it's none of your business what others do with their keys or money or w/e" you're wrong when my point is, that i still must interact with someone else who spent said money for the drifter salvage in order to acquire this new gear through this method..
Also, Pay2win, doesn't always have to have the direct "this is the only way to win, ever, and you have to pay for it" though it can work that way, but also when it's the most upper tier gear in the game, and it's only obtainable through money, it doens't matter if you can beat mobs with average gear.. the point is still there, the most powerful gear is locked behind a paywall... also are you forgetting about pvp? and who's to say they won't add more zones/raise level cap stronger mobs in future? afterall... isn't this what it's all about? "let's buy endless amounts of keys so cryptic can add more content to CO!" if the answer is no... then what's the point?
also... this doesn't force us to gamble? isn't every single source of Drifter salvage FROM the lockboxes? either way, gambling is done for the justice gear.
And really... why are you all so antsy? All i said was it's still pay to win as money is involved. there's on need to get so defensive of your precious CO because at the end of the day... who the hell cares if i simply said "it's still pay to win because.." because for starters... i'm one person, who the hell cares. and two.. "it's still pay to win" is neutral tone. i never said it's good or that it's evil. i never said i won't be getting this gear or will be. i never said anything beyond those words. so you're getting overly dramatic over literally nothing.
^ this is just pointless nonsense. Let's skip ahead.
So you don't want to interact with other players. Why?
And if that's not what you're saying... then what's the problem with having to interact with other players in some way? I don't really consider buying Zen off the exchange to really be much interaction with another player anyway. So honestly... you're going to have to elaborate here because it doesn't make much sense.
PvP will continue to be dominated by builds, not gear. Also, PvPers will have just as easy a time getting the gear as everyone else, and they also won't have to pay any money to get it. Pretty much all the pvpers I've talked to are excited about this, fyi. Fact is, more PvPers will have Justice Gear than the number that have Legion Gear now.
Endless amounts of keys? It's actually a very specific amount of keys you'll have to buy to get Justice Gear. When you say endless amounts of keys, you're thinking of Legion Gear, which is going to be made obsolete.
Your definition of Pay2Win is a bit watered down. You need to go play a game that really is Pay2Win so you gain some perspective on what it actually means. If you can win without the Pay2Win gear... then it just isn't Pay2Win.
Also yes, Cosmic Keys are meant to bring in money. No surprise there, that's just business. If you don't like it, you can just not spend any money on keys. If it bugs you that someone else might be spending money on keys... stop playing the game, uninstall, and do your best to forget.
Every single lockbox gives Drifter Salvage. If there's a casino that features that kind of gambling, please direct me to it.
It's because the idea that anyone would consider this pay 2 win is just bizarre, and completely backwards.
If you can't handle people responding to you, then don't post your thoughts publicly. If you didn't care, then you wouldn't have responded to the responses.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm sure I hate UNITY sky mission.:rolleyes:
I'm sure you'll be fine Doctor in alternate characters and master of pet builds. :O
I'm pretty sure however that both my toons currently have no CON no defense no heals. Not the best idea when in PvE. =D
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Buuut, I don't have any build to do an air fight. My healer or pets or even pesty won't work well at there and I have no good plan so far.
At least we are fair on we all have some B-Baka! thing this time. :rolleyes:
Don't worry we'll make a team of 10 baka builds and beat these rampages! ;D
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Again.. my bloody point is that you CAN'T earn this gear WITHOUT either buying keys for lockboxes or interacting with someone else doing that in order to obtain this gear. That does NOT mean that i personally am against this. It's like, if i said "You can not live without breathing oxygen" it doesn't mean i'm trying to stop the world breathing up oxygen, it just means quite literally what i said "You can't breathe without it", and is a fact. Pointing out facts doesn't mean i'm either with or against it.
You completely missed the point... as always, why don't you learn english before you try to argue it
Twist my words more.. You spoke of keys in a context as "the only way to fund cryptic for CO" I never said that this gear requires the endless amount, just that i asked "isn't this what it's all about?" in regards to making stronger gear.. clearly they must be planning to add more higher level content eventually... otherwise why even make new gear if they never intend to release new zones/raise the level cap? the endless keys comment on that is about the whole concept in general, about lock box after lockbox after lock box with no actual content... if nothing new's being added what's the point why are they even adding this gear?
The only thing watered down is your brain, your definition is the only one that follows one exact rule... the one i explained has varying rules, and the most basic point is the fact it's the highest possible gear in the game, and it's locked in some form behind a pay wall. even if YOU didn't, someone else would have and so it is still pay2win. just because there's no actual goal here in this game anymore, the significance of it being the top most gear and money is involved is definition enough. because as with all other games which you would call pay2win, it doesn't 100% guarantee winning, but it makes it much easier to achieve compared to others.
Again, you're reading way too much into what i say, if you don't understand english so well you need to stop reading too far into things. It doesn't bug me, the only thing that bugs me is idiots like you who have some vendetta against me and feel the need to constantly argue everything i say when all it starts out from is me simply saying it's still pay to win. then you make it into multiple different arguments in one. And why? all because you read too far into things when you don't even understand what you're reading
True, and even with that, sometimes you get more, sometimes only 2, mostly. but it still directs people toward the lockboxes, which is my point. And casino's do the same thing, or at least the ones here do, provide further incentives to gamble there.
No, just people like you, and the rest who wish to deny that money is in some way involved in the method of acquiring this gear.
Oh, i can handle people responding to me, just not when it's idiots who like to nitpick at literally everything i say so they can continue their petty vendetta against me. and my "Who the hell cares" comment was actually directed at you... not about myself. Why the hell do you care so much that i simply say it's still pay 2 win? obviously you care because you like to constantly harass me
Also I have to agree with spinny when she mentioned getting the best gear in the game. Numbers wise sure it's the top, but when you don't really have an issue with the content in the game with existing gear, why all the fuss about the new gear without any challenge that requires it?
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
True, and that's why i don't really care, yet. To me however.. it would seem pointless to add such gear if there are no plans on adding more content in the form of zones/level cap/higher level mobs or something similar. So i'm also hopeful this means that they will be finally adding something new and meaningful that isn't some glorified alert.
I can't tell if you're meaning that to me, but if you read it like that, i wasn't complaining. Just expressing how i view it as still pay2win, and while i'd prefer if justice gear were just random drops, it doens't mean i'm actually against it. Though i do hope they'll eventually make it worthwhile to run games in elite difficulty again, which even that is doable still.. that way i might be able to convince others to agree to elite mode lairs
Thanks for the reply, but it wasn't aimed at anyone specific, I just hear the comment that this game is pay to win so much (both in the forums and in game) that I was curious as to how they felt it was.
And yes I do hold out some hope (no matter how foolish) that we are either getting new content or a better scaled elite difficulty (or maybe even both) to utilize this upcoming gear.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
What the gear potentially does though is trivialize current content difficulty even further. That much I agree with. We need something done about elite difficulty to make it truly elite.
If the person "paying," real money is not, "winning," (I know, not really winning, just getting an advantage) as the result of their expenditure I don't think it is really pay to win.
Technically, if they paid for the gear, and then traded it away, and the top end gear is defined as winning, then they have paid to not win. Pay to Lose.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I guess i spend my Tokens and Stuff to Fluff like Costume pieces and stuff.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Sorry, i can't quite work out *exactly* what your intent with your first paragraph is meant to be, if you could perhaps help clarify it a bit better for me, i'm not game to guess your intent and then respond to what i *think* you're saying.
As for your second paragraph, yes, true. That's why i've tried as much as possible to be consistent it simply referring to it as having some form of monetary value applied directly to it's acquisition method. I realise this game of all , has different factors to affect it. Though i don't say that is a bad thing, afterall.. there are other games that have pay2win components that you can only obtain if you personally buy it with no way to pass it to anyone else.
To me, it's simply pay2win in that it's the top most gear and has this monetary cost to it. I'm aware it can be bought by one person, and then sold to another too. which is why i only refer to the origin source of obtaining it. as someone would always have to be opening boxes to get 1 piece of the puzzle to unlocking it.
And honestly, i'm probabaly going to be buying this anyway, i will still believe it's pay2win, but i'll still get it if i can.