Are there diminishing returns for passive damage or is the number displayed by the tooltip some random number and in actual play the bonus damage that 'overflows' is added in during the roll for...I guess it is called "variance"?
If there are diminishing returns for passive damage then is there diminishing returns for second layer damage?
Is the new 'thing' insanely high and unmitigated damage and is this because of what we have been doing to Gravitar's "yellow bubble of doom"?
So when doing some more testing, carrionbaggage brought some strangeness to my attention.
In his tests, if he starts with no offense, some measure of damage buff, and then adds offense, it works out multiplicitively. However Carrion noticed the additive buffs weren't adding up to what they should. That means that if you simply use all the buffs together, things don't work out correctly, but adding them piecemeal makes them nice. Thing is, it still isn't working as described.
Elaboration:
With 43% PSS STR, 11% from SSS CON, 11% from SSS REC, 60% Rank 3 Electric Sheath, 86% Rank 3 Electric Form, 52% melee STR boost the additive damage buff works out to 263% additive damage buffs. He would expect 830 damage from laser sword, after modifying the laser sword base damage to not include the 1.4% boost from 5 str, however the displayed value was 736.
Adding offense to that would be 11% offense puting carrion at the expected 816 damage.
Not content to let myself appear the crazy, I set to discover why this happened. Using same stats and gear described earlier and picking up Electric form myself I noticed that with my SS setup it had +69% damage at R1. From my earlier test, I knew AoED provided 69% at R3.
Using Electric Form on my character provided 671 damage, while AoED provided 695. No stat changes, or gear swaps. Both the same bonus value, offense, and stance. Identical numbers, except the damage value.
Unstoppable and WoTW both said they'd provide +67%, but they both gave the same damage value 673 damage shown. Despite displaying 2% less buff than electric form, it provided a few points -more- damage, while being less than AoED.
This is all with the exact same gear and stats, only switching passives and reading the buff from the tooltip and the damage from the power tray tooltip.
This is not consistant with the Damage * (1 + Buff from passive + other buffs) * (1 + Severity + Offense)
There is serious strangeness that is going on with damage. Many kudos to Carrionbaggage for noticing the discrepancy.
what's the point of masterful dodge without 100% dodge chance? it becomes pretty lame compared to other active defenses when you can't guarantee a dodge since it doesn't grant 100% avoid.
I did say it could be an exception. That said, I would think an AO that still grants 75% Dodge and good Avoid, would still be useful to many.
I just prefer the idea of Dodge Passives being able to build for higher Dodge. They'd be sacrificing building for even more damage for more survival.
This is totally incorrect. The long and short of it is that there are 2 damage layers that you guys care about. Both of them are additive
Thanks for coming in and helping clear things up. It's too bad you can't post exact formulas; it sounds like there's still some confusion as to how things are working.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
If it helps, I got the base damage by doing a full respec, removing all powers specs and other such stats. I was base 5 in everything, with no stars, no super stats, no gear, and in hybrid role. Basically I stripped as much as I could as a player, without dev powers.
Just a thought: does your character lvl influence the dmg? There could be a base dmg and maybe a lvl modifier. That could be one multiplicator your are missing, if something like that exists.
Just a thought: does your character lvl influence the dmg? There could be a base dmg and maybe a lvl modifier. That could be one multiplicator your are missing, if something like that exists.
I always assumed that was either on it's own layer or part of the calculation for base damage. If it's not that could explain why the first damage layer isn't giving as much as it seems like it should.
Slightly off topic, the PTS notes a while back said that Elusive Monk now gives a flat 4% Dodge that scales with DEX, does anyone know how that scaling works? I can't test it myself.
____________________________________
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
Comments
If there are diminishing returns for passive damage then is there diminishing returns for second layer damage?
Is the new 'thing' insanely high and unmitigated damage and is this because of what we have been doing to Gravitar's "yellow bubble of doom"?
In his tests, if he starts with no offense, some measure of damage buff, and then adds offense, it works out multiplicitively. However Carrion noticed the additive buffs weren't adding up to what they should. That means that if you simply use all the buffs together, things don't work out correctly, but adding them piecemeal makes them nice. Thing is, it still isn't working as described.
Elaboration:
With 43% PSS STR, 11% from SSS CON, 11% from SSS REC, 60% Rank 3 Electric Sheath, 86% Rank 3 Electric Form, 52% melee STR boost the additive damage buff works out to 263% additive damage buffs. He would expect 830 damage from laser sword, after modifying the laser sword base damage to not include the 1.4% boost from 5 str, however the displayed value was 736.
Adding offense to that would be 11% offense puting carrion at the expected 816 damage.
Not content to let myself appear the crazy, I set to discover why this happened. Using same stats and gear described earlier and picking up Electric form myself I noticed that with my SS setup it had +69% damage at R1. From my earlier test, I knew AoED provided 69% at R3.
Using Electric Form on my character provided 671 damage, while AoED provided 695. No stat changes, or gear swaps. Both the same bonus value, offense, and stance. Identical numbers, except the damage value.
Unstoppable and WoTW both said they'd provide +67%, but they both gave the same damage value 673 damage shown. Despite displaying 2% less buff than electric form, it provided a few points -more- damage, while being less than AoED.
This is all with the exact same gear and stats, only switching passives and reading the buff from the tooltip and the damage from the power tray tooltip.
This is not consistant with the Damage * (1 + Buff from passive + other buffs) * (1 + Severity + Offense)
There is serious strangeness that is going on with damage. Many kudos to Carrionbaggage for noticing the discrepancy.
This may also tie into what ayonachan is asking.
I did say it could be an exception. That said, I would think an AO that still grants 75% Dodge and good Avoid, would still be useful to many.
I just prefer the idea of Dodge Passives being able to build for higher Dodge. They'd be sacrificing building for even more damage for more survival.
Thanks for coming in and helping clear things up. It's too bad you can't post exact formulas; it sounds like there's still some confusion as to how things are working.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Just a thought: does your character lvl influence the dmg? There could be a base dmg and maybe a lvl modifier. That could be one multiplicator your are missing, if something like that exists.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
I always assumed that was either on it's own layer or part of the calculation for base damage. If it's not that could explain why the first damage layer isn't giving as much as it seems like it should.
Slightly off topic, the PTS notes a while back said that Elusive Monk now gives a flat 4% Dodge that scales with DEX, does anyone know how that scaling works? I can't test it myself.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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