The devs would also need to make the powers such that interrupts were their own power, not tied to dps and debuffing. As it is I know I won't bother not using one of the new DoTs so I can try to interrupt something. I'd rather maintain dps and continue debuffing.
^This. Interrupt Mechanic has to go, its kind of clear, if it is going to be limited this much it should be replaced with something else. Which is more useful but not detrimental to the player game play wise and the content.
So should players who spec for that certain type of game play be forced away from End game content? As I recall, I was told I would be able to play the hero I wanted to be able to. Of course interrupts need to go as a mechanic, especially in this current form, but no CC on bosses...really? I'm sure there is a way around it.
you nailed it right on the head. lockouts must go. although there needs to be SOME way to do it so its not exploited up the wazoo the lockouts are NOT THE WAY TO GO. perhaps a rework of the resistance stacks system where your own damage does not work against you to break holds? or turn the interrupts into sentry mastery type stuns? that works on anyone, boss, mob, player.
Interrupts in this form need to go as well.
Backhand Chop, Subzero Cellblock advantage and Power Gauntlet are all examples of interrupts done well.
Backhand chop is a melee attack so its sort of fair in a way that you can interrupt and be that close.
Gauntlet is chance based 26-86% chance to interrupt target. I know this works on players and NPCs but does not work on Super Villain or higher.
Subzero Cell block has an internal CD of 9 seconds or something.
I'd be up for some other form of mitigation CC wise that these DoTs can apply which doesn't prove to be detrimental to the game and allows Telepaths to feel needed.
I know that Jay has suggested ways around this issue.
Since the only mobs worth interrupting are Legendaries and Cosmics....the answer to your question is yes. It should take multiple Telepaths to take on a Legendary or Cosmic.
Well, since this silly lockout self debuff procs on anything including regular mob members you'd find that the answer to my question is no.
By mob I meant a group of henchmen, I though that was the correct term for them, never seen a "mob" of cosmics/legendaries.
Some people can solo Therakiel and he is a cosmic...is that fair?
Anyway that's going off topic. The fact of the matter is Interrupts are too powerful a mechanic for CO as bosses AI aren't built for it as was pointed out, so they respond to debuffs...so why not create debuffs which add slowing/offense debuffing effects instead?
thats just stupid. the whole telepathy set is based on CC. anyway its not like you can completely lock it down when it stacks up resistance so fast. you just hate telepathy is that it?
Kaizerin as far as I know just wants balance and for content not to be trivialized. I don't think my posts can actually be seen by Kaizerin, due to the invention of Ignore User Post script, cause of earlier...discussions.
Whether anyone here hates Telepathy or not ( I don't think anyone really does, more the fear of CC is around), I am getting tired of not being able to do anything on LIVE.
So instead of fighting each other, lets band together to find a solution around this mess so that both parties can be happy.
As it is this current iteration is frankly bad and needs to be thought about again.
So should players who spec for that certain type of game play be forced away from End game content? As I recall, I was told I would be able to play the hero I wanted to be able to. Of course interrupts need to go as a mechanic, especially in this current form, but no CC on bosses...really? I'm sure there is a way around it.
You were told, "be the hero you want to be," not, "any build will work anywhere."
Devoted controllers are far from the only builds that will not work well in some situations.
Kaiserin is right. In order for CC to work on bosses the bosses themselves would need to be reworked. I am all for that. I want it very very much.
Well, since this silly lockout self debuff procs on anything including regular mob members you'd find that the answer to my question is no.
By mob I meant a group of henchmen, I though that was the correct term for them, never seen a "mob" of cosmics/legendaries.
Some people can solo Therakiel and he is a cosmic...is that fair?
Anyway that's going off topic. The fact of the matter is Interrupts are too powerful a mechanic for CO as bosses AI aren't built for it as was pointed out, so they respond to debuffs...so why not create debuffs which add slowing/offense debuffing effects instead?
In gaming terminology, "mob," evolved from the term, "mobile," referring to elements in a game that were not part of the static environment. A boss is a mob, a henchman is a mob, and you can have a mob of mobs for that matter.
Remember that no matter what is done to CC it will be pointless vs groups of henchmen because the time spent controlling them could have been used to defeat them. I play mixed control + damage in any game that allows it. My preferred playstyle is that of an interrupter. But if the energy I use on a skill to interrupt could have been used to just defeat the foe instead...the interrupt was less that worthless.
In order for CC, including interrupts, to be meaningful the opposition must be as well. A situation where the group asks the controller to distract one side of a dangerous spawn while the group deals with the rest is a great example of how a controller should be (IMO) important to group play. A boss with multiple dangerous powers, one of which is particularly nasty, is a perfect opportunity for an interrupter to shine. But most encounters in CO are not designed to be CC friendly.
You were told, "be the hero you want to be," not, "any build will work anywhere."
Devoted controllers are far from the only builds that will not work well in some situations.
Kaiserin is right. In order for CC to work on bosses the bosses themselves would need to be reworked. I am all for that. I want it very very much.
So you're saying I was a victim of failure to understand or plain misrepresentation?
Anyway, the situations I'm alluding to are End Game content situations, so lets not be vague about "some situations". I'd love to know what type of build would not do better than a devoted CC build in End Game content.
I have a healer that can do nothing BUT heal and yet she'd be more useful to a team than a crowd controller sadly.
Boss AI and AI in general in CO needs a revamp, I am by no means set against it. I too want this, so until such a time, Interrupts in this form need to feel the sweet side of the boot and fly away from Telepathy and be replaced with another mechanic which incorporates CC and debuffing over DPS.
So you're saying I was a victim of failure to understand or plain misrepresentation?
No. I am saying nothing like either one of those. I am saying exactly what I said. We were told, "be the hero you want to be." At no point (that I have seen) were we told that every hero would be capable of handling every bit of content. You are not a victim of anything.
Anyway, the situations I'm alluding to are End Game content situations, so lets not be vague about "some situations". I'd love to know what type of build would not do better than a devoted CC build in End Game content.?
Ive seen plenty of builds whose inclusion in a team provides essentially zero benefit to the group. That group of five is really only four.
As regards to endgame...it is a tiny fragment of the game's content. Half of one percent of the game ? One tenth of one percent ? Slightly more, slightly less ?
I edited my previous post while you were posting your newest. I responded to some of your points there. My apologies....your forum fu is faster than mine : )
In gaming terminology, "mob," evolved from the term, "mobile," referring to elements in a game that were not part of the static environment. A boss is a mob, a henchman is a mob, and you can have a mob of mobs for that matter.
Remember that no matter what is done to CC it will be pointless vs groups of henchmen because the time spent controlling them could have been used to defeat them. I play mixed control + damage in any game that allows it. My preferred playstyle is that of an interrupter. But if the energy I use on a skill to interrupt could have been used to just defeat the foe instead...the interrupt was less that worthless.
In order for CC, including interrupts, to be meaningful the opposition must be as well. A situation where the group asks the controller to distract one side of a dangerous spawn while the group deals with the rest is a great example of how a controller should be (IMO) important to group play. A boss with multiple dangerous powers, one of which is particularly nasty, is a perfect opportunity for an interrupter to shine. But most encounters in CO are not designed to be CC friendly.
Same I guess, I agree. I also like to have the ability to control and damage in one build style.
In CO though those mechanics work against each other usually.
I guess I was looking forward to being able to do content like Gravitar with Mentella, but I now see that isn't really going to happen/viable.
I'd end up being another body she can cascade around the map.
I am surprised that the interrupt lockout mechanic is proc'ing on henchmen to Enforcer level foes, which means that if I interrupt using the DoTs without the intention of interrupting I'll get a lockout. <---Anyway here's hoping that mechanic is scrapped since it cant work in CO.
As eager as I am for Telepathy..that interrupt function has been limited so much (and rightly so) that it is useless. If I have to wait for them to come up with something better (like some already suggested stuff) then I'll wait. I'd rather wait and be effective than have it rushed and be totally lame.
If I can't have the original interrupts (which I do not feel are OP but do have too many bugged mechanics to exist) then I have to let it be known I sincerely hate the lockout version of the interrupts.
SO If there is no winning back the original interrupts I propose the following:
Shadow of Doubt Immediate debuff: Debuffs enemy offense for 3 seconds. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 approx 50% player hold strength percentage, R2 approx 75% of hold strength percentage, R3 approx 100% of player hold strength percentage. Lingering debuff: Regret lowers target Damage upon power expiration.
Mental Leech Immediate debuff: Saps enemy energy on contact. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 20 END removed from enemy energy. R2 30 END removed from enemy energy. R3 40 END removed from enemy energy. The base amount is multiplied by the hold strength percentage of the caster. Lingering debuff: Dependancy heals up to 4 targets (caster plus 3) within 10ft of the caster(s)
Mental Storm Immediate Debuff: Paralyze. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength.
Rankings Unchanged. Lingering debuff: Stress lowers enemy ego resistance.
- -
These immediate debuffs will reward telepaths for continuing to cast their powers but they are all very temporary. Specifically Shadow of Doubt will provide some very temporary survivability to the class (and team). I have not yet seen people complain about AoRP nor Ebon Sigils so I do not really fear there being much resistance to this change. I chose 3 seconds specifically to be used in "Schtick" powers of cosmics.. nerfing the oncoming damage at the right time can save the whole team. No need to cap hold strength either because the difference between a 100% debuff (50% mitigated) and a 200% debuff (66% mitigated) is already on a diminishing returns model.
Also I understand that Mental Leech's proposed change would not have many PvE uses. But the truth is Utility debuffs are all about either energy or cooldown. I KNOW players would cry bloody murder if there was a power that increased the cooldown times of enemies so I went with energy (even though i'd love to be a little OP with cooldown debuffs). No need to cap hold strength here either.. if targets energy hits 0 they can just rebuild it... Also many PvP players may start investing in END as a stat all the sudden, lol.
No real change to Mental Storm. It's awesome.
- -
To the issue of Congress of Selves in Offensive form, I think it's OP. Not because of the raw damage, but because of what it does to the Offensive Passive balance. The threat reduction alone puts it WAY in front of the pack.. then add to that penetration and/or heal debuffing.. with the ranged damage boost?
This would not only be better than the offensive passives out there imo, it makes using Congress of Selves in Support seem like a REALLY dumb idea via comparison.
- -
These 3 relatively simple changes would make me extremely proud to play a debuff class in CO.
I hope by now testers can see the major flaw in the 1 interrupt every 40 seconds debate but if you do not, I'd be happy to elaborate my distaste.
- -
Beyond that, i still advocate for lowering DoT back in line with all DoT but if players go against this I will just have to completely regear my character to do NO crits so I don't break my own holds in combat.
I love the DoTs with Ego Form. Seeing them on a friend's build makes offensive telepathy look AWESOME.. but that awesome shouldn't come at the cost of another playstyle being trivialized.
P.S. - This is me at my most rational but please know .. I will really be Gentleman Crushed if telepathy loses the things that make it unique because players (who generally haven't wanted to play telepaths) turn the set into "just another dps". This feels like my last chance to enjoy the COMBAT of CO as much as I do my friends and roleplay. So many missions (especially the good ones) my character sits there doing nothing that affects the combat.
From a PvE perspective there's very little point to reducing enemy energy. The only enemies I know of with energy are nemesis. Otherwise I like the idea of immediate debuffs on the DoTs so support can be given right away instead of waiting 6+ seconds because most mobs will be dead before then.
EDIT: Derp, reading am gud. Jay already addressed my concern in his post.
If I can't have the original interrupts (which I do not feel are OP but do have too many bugged mechanics to exist) then I have to let it be known I sincerely hate the lockout version of the interrupts.
SO If there is no winning back the original interrupts I propose the following:
Shadow of Doubt Immediate debuff: Debuffs enemy offense for 3 seconds. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 approx 50% player hold strength percentage, R2 approx 75% of hold strength percentage, R3 approx 100% of player hold strength percentage. Lingering debuff: Regret lowers target Damage upon power expiration.
Mental Leech Immediate debuff: Saps enemy energy on contact. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 20 END removed from enemy energy. R2 30 END removed from enemy energy. R3 40 END removed from enemy energy. The base amount is multiplied by the hold strength percentage of the caster. Lingering debuff: Dependancy heals up to 4 targets (caster plus 3) within 10ft of the caster
Mental Storm Immediate Debuff: Paralyze. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength.
Rankings Unchanged. Lingering debuff: Stress lowers enemy ego resistance.
*Snip*
To be honest, when I first heard Telepathy was getting a pass I was hoping for something like your idea. There are some things I really like about the new powers. But the interrupt mechanic just feels like a huge problem. I totally agree that it's buggy and weird. It's also a very awkward mechanic for a noob to understand. I'm a pretty experienced gamer and I had a hard time figuring out how to use the interrupts and how to even tell if they were working.
I tested the new powers and AoAC. Not with Master of the Mind -yet- nor with unbreakable.
I do not have the numbers at hand, so take this with a grain of salt, but the cooldown of the powers is Mental Leech 2.8 s / Shadow of Doubt <6.5 s / Mental Storm 7 s.
AOaC (26% discount&recharge time for self, 8.8% faster charge);
PRE PSS, INT/CON SSS;
Manipulator a s a form;
Support role.
Green gear from Debugger.
The GOOD:
-Manipulator does not need Thunderclap anymore to quickly build stacks since all three of the new powers build manipulator stacks via the interrupt.
-Mental Leech is always up and you can get ot 10 stacks of Dependency quickly
-Sentinel Mastery is almost always active, the healing is great.
-Interrupt recharge is handily at its minimum 40s
-Control on easy mobs is great (up to master villain).
The BAD:
-Shadow of Doubt is not AoE as all other dots.... really odd! I would change the numbers to have it AoE.
-The interrupt mechanic seems rather odd. As Kontrol says in the PTS thread, it seems better for cherry picking than for a dedicated build: if you need to rotate quickly between the dots you lose the ability to use the interrupt when needed.
-Damage seems low without a dedicated passive as expected (gut feel).
-The playstyle becomes hectic. You need to click quickly and keep rotating powers. You start feeling the activation time if you do not click long enough and might miss on building stacks.
Overall cool. The interrupt could be reworked into a separate power? possibly lower the minimum cooldown to 30 s?
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I say get rid of the interrupts and give us something else that say, mezzes mobs and has some sorta debuff that only works on bosses to make up for the fact we cant mez em. is THAT acceptable to you, Kazerin? and ravenforce you said "I guess I was looking forward to being able to do content like Gravitar with Mentella, but I now see that isn't really going to happen/viable." dont give up. make your voices heard telepathy people! make this WORK!
Regardless of whether I continue talking about the issue of Mentella in higher level content...it's painfully obvious that, I won't be doing anything besides solo'ing stuff with New Telepathy. I'd have to probably get *something* to change on Mentella..like 2GM or Ebon Ruin or turn her into a telekinetic if I want to go Gravitar. Or change her into a version of Alara the Light Guardian. lol.
I'm liking the suggestion that Jaybezz put up, it sounds good, only issue is...do enemy NPC's need energy to function? The only ones I've seen with a visible Energy bar is my nemesis. Either way, I like it a thousand times more than this current system of 40 second LOLgameplayfreeeze! style lockouts..
I really don't like the idea of being a dead weight on a team, I know how frustrating it is to fail Gravitar for some people (myself included if I think we have a shot), I'd hate to jeopardize people's chances for that Rampage by entering as Mentella, when someone more capable usefulness wise could enter and contribute.
Overall cool. The interrupt could be reworked into a separate power? possibly lower the minimum cooldown to 30 s?
I get the impression that the general consensus as regards Interrupt Mechanic = GTFO. However if the interrupt was limited to Henchmen - Enforcer..it wouldn't be doing anything which is not already in game, thus contributing nothing.
INT + CD Reduction cores can really reduce cooldowns a lot...so it would probably be best not to include interrupt mechanic at all.
It's a shame it has not remained as the original interrupts but for the sake of others it has to go.
However as I perhaps have previously mentioned, I am very much behind Jaybezz's aforementioned changes to the three previously interrupt mechanic powers.
No one likes the lockout, 40-80 seconds is waaay too long and more importantly, no one likes self debuffs.
So far I tested this with Bludhound and Rictus. I posted about it in the main Telepathy Feedback thread. So that means you'd be far from useless on Gravitar... if this also applies to cosmics. She wouldn't be held but you'd be debuffing her with Trauma, Dependency, and Regret. While boosting the melee players health with Mental Leech.
Also if the low aggression stealth keeps her from aggroing on you... Hot Damn.
This needs to be tested to see if if's all really true of course. I think all of us have spent way to much time talking about the interrupt and totally ignoring other parts of this update.
I don't hate the current interrupt but using it in the Telepathy DoT debuffs is just a bad idea.
I think the game community would get behind this power replacing the offensive side of "Celestial Cleansing" - 40 second lock out included. And even then the cooldown of the lockout cannot be affected by recharge time. If this power exists it will definitely be cherry picked.. so removing all other functionality (damage, healing, etc) would need to be completely removed.
Manipulator says it allows you to hold Super Villains but really only Ego Storm Malevolent Manifestation is the only power I can get to actually hold any supervillain. Anyone else experiencing this? Will test again tonight.. but This bug has been around since Manipulator was created.
Powers used - Mental Storm and Soul Mesmerism (Glossiana advantage)
BUG:
Mental Storm does not proc Telepathic Reverberation. Also SO MANY of the non-telepathy holds not proc Telepathic Reverb.. IIRC this used to be for all non-physical holds. Since there's no "Physical" and "Non-Physical" holds anymore.. it'd be nice if this were updated to proc on all disoriented or held or stunned or incapacitated foes.
I have been testing the new force power (I do not remember the name).
Can it have a 1 point advantage that multiplies defense x2 (or x3 or whatever is not high enough to make it Overpowered) and reduces the damage buff to 0%? That way it can be a viable support power. With the current state is it not worth for a support character to drain all the energy in +20% defense, and the buff is very possible you will not use it match because your energy is already drained and you ll need to use an energy builder.
As buff it may work fine, because you can tap to charge the damage buff, and your energy drain will not be totally drained.
With this advantage we choose what we want from it higher defense, or lower defense+high damage.
Manipulator says it allows you to hold Super Villains but really only Ego Storm Malevolent Manifestation is the only power I can get to actually hold any supervillain. Anyone else experiencing this? Will test again tonight.. but This bug has been around since Manipulator was created.
Powers used - Mental Storm and Soul Mesmerism (Glossiana advantage)
Confirmed: You're right. Malevolent Manifestation reliably holds Super Villains (with Manipulator) the other holds don't. It's only a few seconds but it's nice when it happens.
I have been testing the new force power (I do not remember the name).
Can it have a 1 point advantage that multiplies defense x2 (or x3 or whatever is not high enough to make it Overpowered) and reduces the damage buff to 0%? That way it can be a viable support power. With the current state is it not worth for a support character to drain all the energy in +20% defense, and the buff is very possible you will not use it match because your energy is already drained and you ll need to use an energy builder.
As buff it may work fine, because you can tap to charge the damage buff, and your energy drain will not be totally drained.
With this advantage we choose what we want from it higher defense, or lower defense+high damage.
While I like this idea it'd have to be a 3 point advantage that forces players to choose either Offense or Defense.
The BAD:
-Shadow of Doubt is not AoE as all other dots.... really odd! I would change the numbers to have it AoE.
It's not? I thought it was a 10ft AoE? The original version of the power when it FIRST came out was single target but the later versions became small AoE
Confirmed: You're right. Malevolent Manifestation reliably holds Super Villains (with Manipulator) the other holds don't. It's only a few seconds but it's nice when it happens.
I have been testing the new force power (I do not remember the name).
Can it have a 1 point advantage that multiplies defense x2 (or x3 or whatever is not high enough to make it Overpowered) and reduces the damage buff to 0%? That way it can be a viable support power. With the current state is it not worth for a support character to drain all the energy in +20% defense, and the buff is very possible you will not use it match because your energy is already drained and you ll need to use an energy builder.
As buff it may work fine, because you can tap to charge the damage buff, and your energy drain will not be totally drained.
With this advantage we choose what we want from it higher defense, or lower defense+high damage.
I posted about something like this on a previous update thread, the thing about this is...
1) The Damage buff should apply to all shielded, not just caster.
2) The 20% is a rather powerful defense buff, as it operates outside DR and all other resistances including dodge/avoid and IDF which means, a 16k Force Detonation From Gravitar turns into a 12.8k hit from just Redirected Force ALONE, then your resistances, IDF, Dodge/Avoid and Passive are all taken into account. So it may seem on the surface to be rubbish but in actual fact its very nice.
3) I'd love for an increase to defense advantage point. However it would have to be 1 point, which as we both suggested removes the damage buff component of the power in favour for an extra 10-15% increase in defense from the power maybe? [Force Defender]
While I like this idea it'd have to be a 3 point advantage that forces players to choose either Offense or Defense.
It needs to be only 1 point, otherwise you can not rank it up. At the moment you get 10%, 15% and 20% according to the rank, I suggest to make it 20% 30% and 40% if you have the 1 point conversion from defense+dps to only defense.
If it costs 3 points you ll only be able to rank it to 30% not big improvement compared to 20% + damage boost.
This way you can choose between:
- 5 points cost rank 3: defense 40% damage 0% (I do not know if 40% is a fair number it must be tested)
- 4 points cost rank 3: (current state) defense 20% damage +x% depending on the hits.
2) The 20% is a rather powerful defense buff, as it operates outside DR and all other resistances including dodge/avoid and IDF which means, a 16k Force Detonation From Gravitar turns into a 12.8k hit from just Redirected Force ALONE, then your resistances, IDF, Dodge/Avoid and Passive are all taken into account. So it may seem on the surface to be rubbish but in actual fact its very nice. [Force Defender][/B]
Ah I did not realized that, I thought it was just an additional to stack to the defenses so, suffering from soft-caps.
2) The 20% is a rather powerful defense buff, as it operates outside DR and all other resistances including dodge/avoid and IDF which means, a 16k Force Detonation From Gravitar turns into a 12.8k hit from just Redirected Force ALONE, then your resistances, IDF, Dodge/Avoid and Passive are all taken into account. So it may seem on the surface to be rubbish but in actual fact its very nice. [Force Defender][/B]
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!! then it totally makes the power worth it for a support character like my Cascadence
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Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
It needs to be only 1 point, otherwise you can not rank it up. At the moment you get 10%, 15% and 20% according to the rank, I suggest to make it 20% 30% and 40% if you have the 1 point conversion from defense+dps to only defense.
If it costs 3 points you ll only be able to rank it to 30% not big improvement compared to 20% + damage boost.
This way you can choose between:
- 5 points cost rank 3: defense 40% damage 0% (I do not know if 40% is a fair number it must be tested)
- 4 points cost rank 3: (current state) defense 20% damage +x% depending on the hits.
With the way it works in mind have something like this:
[Redirected Force]
Rank 1 - 10%
Rank 2 - 15%
Rank 3 - 20%
1 point Advantage: [Impregnable Defense] - You strengthen your shields further on yourself and your allies for increased protection. However as a result you can no longer redirect incoming damage into kinetic energy for you to manipulate.
+ Grants an extra 20% defense to Redirected Force.
- Removes the Redirected Force Damage Buff component of this power.
Values wise this would transform a 16k Force Detonation from Gravitar into a 9.6k hit as a base before any and all resistances...I personally like this, but I have a suspicion this would trivialize the gameplay experience. I'd perhaps say maybe the advantage granting and extra 15% at the very most? And 10% at the very least.
There should be a pay off for a power with that high an energy cost and its a maintain which locks out everything else to boot. So maybe 20% IS acceptable. Either way it needs to be a 1 point advantage.
All things considered...I'm of the opinion that Redirected and Rimefire will appear on LIVE soon without any changes..I'd love to be proved wrong though.
With the way it works in mind have something like this:
[Redirected Force]
Rank 1 - 10%
Rank 2 - 15%
Rank 3 - 20%
1 point Advantage: [Impregnable Defense] - You strengthen your shields further on yourself and your allies for increased protection. However as a result you can no longer redirect incoming damage into kinetic energy for you to manipulate.
+ Grants an extra 20% defense to Redirected Force.
- Removes the Redirected Force Damage Buff component of this power.
Values wise this would transform a 16k Force Detonation from Gravitar into a 9.6k hit as a base before any and all resistances...I personally like this, but I have a suspicion this would trivialize the gameplay experience. I'd perhaps say maybe the advantage granting and extra 15% at the very most? And 10% at the very least.
There should be a pay off for a power with that high an energy cost and its a maintain which locks out everything else to boot. So maybe 20% IS acceptable. Either way it needs to be a 1 point advantage.
All things considered...I'm of the opinion that Redirected and Rimefire will appear on LIVE soon without any changes..I'd love to be proved wrong though.
I've barely tested them.. my character just doesn't have the END to use them.. but I really do hope the cast time v benefit works like Snow Storm. The longer you cast it the longer the buff lasts when you stop casting.
I've barely tested them.. my character just doesn't have the END to use them.. but I really do hope the cast time v benefit works like Snow Storm. The longer you cast it the longer the buff lasts when you stop casting.
As soon as you stop maintaining the effect drops instantly, and since the maintain is indefinite you might as well love running to combat holding down one button.
Sentinel Aura and AoRP are gonna be popular with this power, as to access a heal you'll need to drop the field.
I still dont think its worth it if you cant even fight while doing it. the team basically loses a member for a 20% buff.
While true you may lose a member for DPS...that person using the buff (and I imagine with a lot of other passive buffs) is supporting the team in another manner.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I still dont think its worth it if you cant even fight while doing it. the team basically loses a member for a 20% buff.
But you also get the damage boost, and if the modification we are suggesting is implemented the defense buff will be higher at the cost of 0 damage boost.
While true you may lose a member for DPS...that person using the buff (and I imagine with a lot of other passive buffs) is supporting the team in another manner.
Yeah.. but they didn't even GET the buff at last patch from what I hear.. I love the power but it needs to actually work... AFTER telepathy
Yeah.. but they didn't even GET the buff at last patch from what I hear.. I love the power but it needs to actually work... AFTER telepathy
#TelepathyNOW
But of course. :biggrin:
On a completely unrelated note: I think that the Force powers should get the same damage bonus to knock immune enemies as other knock powers. We'll save that discussion for another day.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
On a completely unrelated note: I think that the Force powers should get the same damage bonus to knock immune enemies as other knock powers. We'll save that discussion for another day.
Sure, after they get a 20% base damage reduction. :biggrin:
I will say, I believe G_C stated only Might gets that bonus. If thats true, then all I'll say is, get in line.
Sure, after they get a 20% base damage reduction. :biggrin:
I will say, I believe G_C stated only Might gets that bonus. If thats true, then all I'll say is, get in line.
I've already pitched a tent and begun roasting marshmallows. :biggrin:
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
This may not make me a popular person, but I'm starting to see the wisdom of interrupt mechanics in context with the rest of the new powers.
The New Telepathy is all about the debuffs.
For example, I was able to stack up to 4 Regrets by spamming "Shadow of Doubt" on a Master Villain. That's 20% reduction in damage. I tested with another telepathy player on Bludhound. We built 10 stacks easily. That means we reduced a legendary's damage output by 50%.
All of that plus being able to interrupt at will would be way overpowered. I think I see what GC is trying to do here. The real star of these new powers are the debuffs.. not the interrupts. The interrupt seems to meant to be used sparingly not as a main power staple to rely on.
What the new Telepathy Does well is:
a) Keeping control and damage up and going for trash mobs.
b) Debuffing uncontrollable targets.
c) Builds Stacks of Manipulator very quickly.
d) The occasional interrupt to help mitigate "nukes" from the big guys.
I'm totally expecting to be dismissed on this. But I've tested and tested. And when I adopt the above play style the new powers work astonishingly well. And I might add "Shadow of Doubt" is awesome on an Ego Blader! Well it's just awesome period. The damage debuff is more than noticeable.
So what I'm saying is.. standing around waiting to cast an interrupt is not how the set is meant to be played. Even when you are locked out of "interrupt" or "control" you retain access to some powerful debuffs, buffs, and damage.
This makes Telepathy a superior Control/Debuff/Support set.
Short duration (2-4second) debuffs that debuff strength scale with Hold Strength
Do not want:
Long duration (20-30s) debuffs that can be cherry picked
I hear what you're saying. But there really isn't much reason to cherry pick these. for most non-set users quite frankly there are better existing choices for them.
I mean if you were cherry picking would you go for Mental Leech or Devour Essence? Or one of the other better heals the game has?
And what good is a Ego Resistance debuff for anyone but an ego user? If your primary damage type isn't ego, why in the world would you pick an ego resistance debuff?
The only other players who might want these powers are TK bladers. And that actually makes sense.
Yes Shadow of Doubt is good, but if wanted to debuff damage in a non-Ego build, personally I'd take Sigils of Ebon Weakness.. because I wouldn't have to worry about trying to stack.
Anyone who cherry picked here would be kind of gimping themselves. These powers all work their best with someone who'd doing ego based damage. At least that's how I see it.
I agree with your analysis Riverocean... aside from the part on the interrupt. If you are going for an active playstyle rotanting the dots and keeping up the debuffs (cool and engaging) you will always waste the interrupt.
Want:
Short duration (2-4second) debuffs that debuff strength scale with Hold Strength
I think it's a great direction to take... maybe less extreme? Say 8 s debuff scaling upwards to the current duration?
This game is cool because you CAN still pick the powers you want without them being useless!
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The biggest issues with telepathy as a control set are that they work too slowly to do anything in lower/regular level team content (aka everyone already killed everything before my powers even worked), and the fact that holds do Sum ZERO against endgame content.
And this is before even BRINGING UP PvP with telepathy..
Why release new powers if they do nothing to help this problem?
I think it's a great direction to take... maybe less extreme? Say 8 s debuff scaling upwards to the current duration?
This game is cool because you CAN still pick the powers you want without them being useless!
If the debuff duration is 8 seconds then players who use INT for their hold strength (through Battle of wits and Manipulator) get to feel the sting of neutering themselves. The obvious issue with (the original) interrupts were that they were 100% potent 100% of the time.. when players who invested in INT used them it meant they had near 100% shut down.
What I propose means players with PRE for HoldStrength will have potentially STRONGER debuffs that are temporary and must be fired at the right time. And players who have INT for HoldStrength will be able to cast a weaker Debuff that is re-castable more often (because INT also lowers the cool-down of the power).
In a game where permanent self buffing is so SO far out of control.. you would think players would welcome a way to negate those effects. Telepathy DESPERATELY needs damage mitigation. There's no block, no active defense, and only Master of the Mind as any type of actual defense.
So in any endgame Content telepathy (debuff) characters will enjoy staying dead.. while magic (buff) characters get unlimited power.
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I have not seen anyone cry: "Dammit Aura of Radiant Protection user.. stop making me survive.. it trivializes the content.. and dont dare use those ebon sigils.. they are way overpowered AoE debuffs"
And yet when I advocate for a temporary almost single target debuff to enemy offense (leaving the caster STILL vulnerable to the REST of the enemies.. unlike Ebon Sigils) it is deemed overpowered because it can shut down ONE target temporarily.
Team buffs include:
AoRP - Defense buff (Team damage mitigation)
AoED - Offense Buff (Team defense mitigation)
AoAC - Utility Buff
AoPM - Insane amount of free stats to team
Heals - Not capped on how much you can heal
Shields - Unlimited Casting Potential of Free HP no cap to how much you can Shield
And what is there on the OTHER side of that equation? Debuffs include
Ebon Sigils - a SORCERY Offense debuff.. that ALSO slows enemies and is AoE
...
... then... there's
Ego placate - 10% Debuff on one enemy offense? Why you suck so hard? (Same tier as Ebon Sigils)
Demolish - 1 target in melee range only debuffing enemy defense
Chest Beam - debuffing enemy defense
Trauma - debuffing enemy healing and capped at 50%
Celestial Cleansing - Does absolutely nothing
So let me get this gay.. You can amp yourself to unlimited DPS, You can amp your self to unlimited Defense, You can amp yourself to Unlimited Energy, and you can Amp your Team to do all of the above.
And there is no way to debuff against this? Even though you offer "Debuff Protection" as Primary Defense gear and put it in the Ranged Damage stat? So if players wanted to not be neutered they could just pick that option.
I submit to the court of public opinion that debuffing should NEVER be hard-capped by quantity because the +DebuffStrength is not capped and is a QUALITY based mechanic for a reason. If I have more hold strength than is needed.. it should still have the potential to do something. Dodge chance has an actual cap of 100% and when it is reached players are given Avoidance to gear. Debuffers are allowed only ONE stat to gear, and that's +HoldStrength. Some of us have geared in it QUITE extensively and are being told "Too bad.. that's useless".
Why does your combat system have a quality based mechanic that is capped? Rather its capped by quantity or up time or severity.. why are you capping ONLY THIS SIDE of the combat equation?
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It's official I have lost sleep over it.. i went to sleep and kept tossing and turning at the bleak future for people like me who invested LOTS of money into their character to do nothing.
If Debuff Strength as a mechanic in champions online is going to suck. Then give us our Mods and Money back.. no one told US "we're going to cap this feature so don't invest in it". People would be saying the same if you capped Damage output or capped Defense output or capped Aura output to THEIR characters.
I have not seen anyone cry: "Dammit Aura of Radiant Protection user.. stop making me survive.. it trivializes the content.. and dont dare use those ebon sigils.. they are way overpowered AoE debuffs"
I'll start doing it!
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
If you really want to see which mobs have debuff caps (and the extent of those caps) take Psychic Vortex for a whirl. In my own testing with it everything MV+ (with the exception of Kiga and his puppies) has debuff caps.
Note: Villain and above mobs have at least 10% damage resistance. It appears debuff caps can even prevent mobs (such as Mega Destroid) from going negative resist if their base resist is high enough unless there is some sort of resist penetration present.
I don't know if it's possible but if debuff hard caps are here to stay (and they likely are) I'd prefer them to only start once the mob is at zero in whatever stat is being debuffed. So in the case of Mega Destroid (or any other high resist mob) resistance debuffs would be able to reduce its resist to zero and then however much more in the negative up to the cap.
On a side note, unless drastic changes are made to how the debuff caps work I think Psychic Vortex should be changed greatly from what it is now. Since the power so easily hits and goes much beyond the cap I think the base damage should be increased and the debuff amount to resistance lowered or changed to some other debuff.
Psychic Vortex should follow enemies again, I think. Was way more useful when it did.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Comments
^This. Interrupt Mechanic has to go, its kind of clear, if it is going to be limited this much it should be replaced with something else. Which is more useful but not detrimental to the player game play wise and the content.
So should players who spec for that certain type of game play be forced away from End game content? As I recall, I was told I would be able to play the hero I wanted to be able to. Of course interrupts need to go as a mechanic, especially in this current form, but no CC on bosses...really? I'm sure there is a way around it.
Interrupts in this form need to go as well.
Backhand Chop, Subzero Cellblock advantage and Power Gauntlet are all examples of interrupts done well.
Backhand chop is a melee attack so its sort of fair in a way that you can interrupt and be that close.
Gauntlet is chance based 26-86% chance to interrupt target. I know this works on players and NPCs but does not work on Super Villain or higher.
Subzero Cell block has an internal CD of 9 seconds or something.
I'd be up for some other form of mitigation CC wise that these DoTs can apply which doesn't prove to be detrimental to the game and allows Telepaths to feel needed.
I know that Jay has suggested ways around this issue.
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Well, since this silly lockout self debuff procs on anything including regular mob members you'd find that the answer to my question is no.
By mob I meant a group of henchmen, I though that was the correct term for them, never seen a "mob" of cosmics/legendaries.
Some people can solo Therakiel and he is a cosmic...is that fair?
Anyway that's going off topic. The fact of the matter is Interrupts are too powerful a mechanic for CO as bosses AI aren't built for it as was pointed out, so they respond to debuffs...so why not create debuffs which add slowing/offense debuffing effects instead?
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Kaizerin as far as I know just wants balance and for content not to be trivialized. I don't think my posts can actually be seen by Kaizerin, due to the invention of Ignore User Post script, cause of earlier...discussions.
Whether anyone here hates Telepathy or not ( I don't think anyone really does, more the fear of CC is around), I am getting tired of not being able to do anything on LIVE.
So instead of fighting each other, lets band together to find a solution around this mess so that both parties can be happy.
As it is this current iteration is frankly bad and needs to be thought about again.
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You were told, "be the hero you want to be," not, "any build will work anywhere."
Devoted controllers are far from the only builds that will not work well in some situations.
Kaiserin is right. In order for CC to work on bosses the bosses themselves would need to be reworked. I am all for that. I want it very very much.
In gaming terminology, "mob," evolved from the term, "mobile," referring to elements in a game that were not part of the static environment. A boss is a mob, a henchman is a mob, and you can have a mob of mobs for that matter.
Remember that no matter what is done to CC it will be pointless vs groups of henchmen because the time spent controlling them could have been used to defeat them. I play mixed control + damage in any game that allows it. My preferred playstyle is that of an interrupter. But if the energy I use on a skill to interrupt could have been used to just defeat the foe instead...the interrupt was less that worthless.
In order for CC, including interrupts, to be meaningful the opposition must be as well. A situation where the group asks the controller to distract one side of a dangerous spawn while the group deals with the rest is a great example of how a controller should be (IMO) important to group play. A boss with multiple dangerous powers, one of which is particularly nasty, is a perfect opportunity for an interrupter to shine. But most encounters in CO are not designed to be CC friendly.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
So you're saying I was a victim of failure to understand or plain misrepresentation?
Anyway, the situations I'm alluding to are End Game content situations, so lets not be vague about "some situations". I'd love to know what type of build would not do better than a devoted CC build in End Game content.
I have a healer that can do nothing BUT heal and yet she'd be more useful to a team than a crowd controller sadly.
Boss AI and AI in general in CO needs a revamp, I am by no means set against it. I too want this, so until such a time, Interrupts in this form need to feel the sweet side of the boot and fly away from Telepathy and be replaced with another mechanic which incorporates CC and debuffing over DPS.
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No. I am saying nothing like either one of those. I am saying exactly what I said. We were told, "be the hero you want to be." At no point (that I have seen) were we told that every hero would be capable of handling every bit of content. You are not a victim of anything.
Ive seen plenty of builds whose inclusion in a team provides essentially zero benefit to the group. That group of five is really only four.
As regards to endgame...it is a tiny fragment of the game's content. Half of one percent of the game ? One tenth of one percent ? Slightly more, slightly less ?
I edited my previous post while you were posting your newest. I responded to some of your points there. My apologies....your forum fu is faster than mine : )
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Same I guess, I agree. I also like to have the ability to control and damage in one build style.
In CO though those mechanics work against each other usually.
I guess I was looking forward to being able to do content like Gravitar with Mentella, but I now see that isn't really going to happen/viable.
I'd end up being another body she can cascade around the map.
I am surprised that the interrupt lockout mechanic is proc'ing on henchmen to Enforcer level foes, which means that if I interrupt using the DoTs without the intention of interrupting I'll get a lockout. <---Anyway here's hoping that mechanic is scrapped since it cant work in CO.
As eager as I am for Telepathy..that interrupt function has been limited so much (and rightly so) that it is useless. If I have to wait for them to come up with something better (like some already suggested stuff) then I'll wait. I'd rather wait and be effective than have it rushed and be totally lame.
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SO If there is no winning back the original interrupts I propose the following:
Shadow of Doubt
Immediate debuff: Debuffs enemy offense for 3 seconds. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 approx 50% player hold strength percentage, R2 approx 75% of hold strength percentage, R3 approx 100% of player hold strength percentage.
Lingering debuff: Regret lowers target Damage upon power expiration.
Mental Leech
Immediate debuff: Saps enemy energy on contact. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength. R1 20 END removed from enemy energy. R2 30 END removed from enemy energy. R3 40 END removed from enemy energy. The base amount is multiplied by the hold strength percentage of the caster.
Lingering debuff: Dependancy heals up to 4 targets (caster plus 3) within 10ft of the caster(s)
Mental Storm
Immediate Debuff: Paralyze. The strength of this debuff scales with player's hold strength.
Rankings Unchanged.
Lingering debuff: Stress lowers enemy ego resistance.
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These immediate debuffs will reward telepaths for continuing to cast their powers but they are all very temporary. Specifically Shadow of Doubt will provide some very temporary survivability to the class (and team). I have not yet seen people complain about AoRP nor Ebon Sigils so I do not really fear there being much resistance to this change. I chose 3 seconds specifically to be used in "Schtick" powers of cosmics.. nerfing the oncoming damage at the right time can save the whole team. No need to cap hold strength either because the difference between a 100% debuff (50% mitigated) and a 200% debuff (66% mitigated) is already on a diminishing returns model.
Also I understand that Mental Leech's proposed change would not have many PvE uses. But the truth is Utility debuffs are all about either energy or cooldown. I KNOW players would cry bloody murder if there was a power that increased the cooldown times of enemies so I went with energy (even though i'd love to be a little OP with cooldown debuffs). No need to cap hold strength here either.. if targets energy hits 0 they can just rebuild it... Also many PvP players may start investing in END as a stat all the sudden, lol.
No real change to Mental Storm. It's awesome.
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To the issue of Congress of Selves in Offensive form, I think it's OP. Not because of the raw damage, but because of what it does to the Offensive Passive balance. The threat reduction alone puts it WAY in front of the pack.. then add to that penetration and/or heal debuffing.. with the ranged damage boost?
This would not only be better than the offensive passives out there imo, it makes using Congress of Selves in Support seem like a REALLY dumb idea via comparison.
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These 3 relatively simple changes would make me extremely proud to play a debuff class in CO.
I hope by now testers can see the major flaw in the 1 interrupt every 40 seconds debate but if you do not, I'd be happy to elaborate my distaste.
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Beyond that, i still advocate for lowering DoT back in line with all DoT but if players go against this I will just have to completely regear my character to do NO crits so I don't break my own holds in combat.
I love the DoTs with Ego Form. Seeing them on a friend's build makes offensive telepathy look AWESOME.. but that awesome shouldn't come at the cost of another playstyle being trivialized.
P.S. - This is me at my most rational but please know .. I will really be Gentleman Crushed if telepathy loses the things that make it unique because players (who generally haven't wanted to play telepaths) turn the set into "just another dps". This feels like my last chance to enjoy the COMBAT of CO as much as I do my friends and roleplay. So many missions (especially the good ones) my character sits there doing nothing that affects the combat.
EDIT: Derp, reading am gud. Jay already addressed my concern in his post.
To be honest, when I first heard Telepathy was getting a pass I was hoping for something like your idea. There are some things I really like about the new powers. But the interrupt mechanic just feels like a huge problem. I totally agree that it's buggy and weird. It's also a very awkward mechanic for a noob to understand. I'm a pretty experienced gamer and I had a hard time figuring out how to use the interrupts and how to even tell if they were working.
I
I tested the new powers and AoAC. Not with Master of the Mind -yet- nor with unbreakable.
I do not have the numbers at hand, so take this with a grain of salt, but the cooldown of the powers is Mental Leech 2.8 s / Shadow of Doubt <6.5 s / Mental Storm 7 s.
AOaC (26% discount&recharge time for self, 8.8% faster charge);
PRE PSS, INT/CON SSS;
Manipulator a s a form;
Support role.
Green gear from Debugger.
The GOOD:
-Manipulator does not need Thunderclap anymore to quickly build stacks since all three of the new powers build manipulator stacks via the interrupt.
-Mental Leech is always up and you can get ot 10 stacks of Dependency quickly
-Sentinel Mastery is almost always active, the healing is great.
-Interrupt recharge is handily at its minimum 40s
-Control on easy mobs is great (up to master villain).
The BAD:
-Shadow of Doubt is not AoE as all other dots.... really odd! I would change the numbers to have it AoE.
-The interrupt mechanic seems rather odd. As Kontrol says in the PTS thread, it seems better for cherry picking than for a dedicated build: if you need to rotate quickly between the dots you lose the ability to use the interrupt when needed.
-Damage seems low without a dedicated passive as expected (gut feel).
-The playstyle becomes hectic. You need to click quickly and keep rotating powers. You start feeling the activation time if you do not click long enough and might miss on building stacks.
Overall cool. The interrupt could be reworked into a separate power? possibly lower the minimum cooldown to 30 s?
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Regardless of whether I continue talking about the issue of Mentella in higher level content...it's painfully obvious that, I won't be doing anything besides solo'ing stuff with New Telepathy. I'd have to probably get *something* to change on Mentella..like 2GM or Ebon Ruin or turn her into a telekinetic if I want to go Gravitar. Or change her into a version of Alara the Light Guardian. lol.
I'm liking the suggestion that Jaybezz put up, it sounds good, only issue is...do enemy NPC's need energy to function? The only ones I've seen with a visible Energy bar is my nemesis. Either way, I like it a thousand times more than this current system of 40 second LOLgameplayfreeeze! style lockouts..
I really don't like the idea of being a dead weight on a team, I know how frustrating it is to fail Gravitar for some people (myself included if I think we have a shot), I'd hate to jeopardize people's chances for that Rampage by entering as Mentella, when someone more capable usefulness wise could enter and contribute.
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I get the impression that the general consensus as regards Interrupt Mechanic = GTFO. However if the interrupt was limited to Henchmen - Enforcer..it wouldn't be doing anything which is not already in game, thus contributing nothing.
INT + CD Reduction cores can really reduce cooldowns a lot...so it would probably be best not to include interrupt mechanic at all.
It's a shame it has not remained as the original interrupts but for the sake of others it has to go.
However as I perhaps have previously mentioned, I am very much behind Jaybezz's aforementioned changes to the three previously interrupt mechanic powers.
No one likes the lockout, 40-80 seconds is waaay too long and more importantly, no one likes self debuffs.
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Here's the Screen Shot:
Bludhound Debuffed w/ Trauma & Regret
So far I tested this with Bludhound and Rictus. I posted about it in the main Telepathy Feedback thread. So that means you'd be far from useless on Gravitar... if this also applies to cosmics. She wouldn't be held but you'd be debuffing her with Trauma, Dependency, and Regret. While boosting the melee players health with Mental Leech.
Also if the low aggression stealth keeps her from aggroing on you... Hot Damn.
This needs to be tested to see if if's all really true of course. I think all of us have spent way to much time talking about the interrupt and totally ignoring other parts of this update.
I don't hate the current interrupt but using it in the Telepathy DoT debuffs is just a bad idea.
I think the game community would get behind this power replacing the offensive side of "Celestial Cleansing" - 40 second lock out included. And even then the cooldown of the lockout cannot be affected by recharge time. If this power exists it will definitely be cherry picked.. so removing all other functionality (damage, healing, etc) would need to be completely removed.
Just my 2 cents.
But they DO NOT WORK for telepathy.
Manipulator says it allows you to hold Super Villains but really only Ego Storm Malevolent Manifestation is the only power I can get to actually hold any supervillain. Anyone else experiencing this? Will test again tonight.. but This bug has been around since Manipulator was created.
Powers used - Mental Storm and Soul Mesmerism (Glossiana advantage)
BUG:
Mental Storm does not proc Telepathic Reverberation. Also SO MANY of the non-telepathy holds not proc Telepathic Reverb.. IIRC this used to be for all non-physical holds. Since there's no "Physical" and "Non-Physical" holds anymore.. it'd be nice if this were updated to proc on all disoriented or held or stunned or incapacitated foes.
Can it have a 1 point advantage that multiplies defense x2 (or x3 or whatever is not high enough to make it Overpowered) and reduces the damage buff to 0%? That way it can be a viable support power. With the current state is it not worth for a support character to drain all the energy in +20% defense, and the buff is very possible you will not use it match because your energy is already drained and you ll need to use an energy builder.
As buff it may work fine, because you can tap to charge the damage buff, and your energy drain will not be totally drained.
With this advantage we choose what we want from it higher defense, or lower defense+high damage.
Confirmed: You're right. Malevolent Manifestation reliably holds Super Villains (with Manipulator) the other holds don't. It's only a few seconds but it's nice when it happens.
While I like this idea it'd have to be a 3 point advantage that forces players to choose either Offense or Defense.
It's not? I thought it was a 10ft AoE? The original version of the power when it FIRST came out was single target but the later versions became small AoE
That's what I thought. TY for testing
I posted about something like this on a previous update thread, the thing about this is...
1) The Damage buff should apply to all shielded, not just caster.
2) The 20% is a rather powerful defense buff, as it operates outside DR and all other resistances including dodge/avoid and IDF which means, a 16k Force Detonation From Gravitar turns into a 12.8k hit from just Redirected Force ALONE, then your resistances, IDF, Dodge/Avoid and Passive are all taken into account. So it may seem on the surface to be rubbish but in actual fact its very nice.
3) I'd love for an increase to defense advantage point. However it would have to be 1 point, which as we both suggested removes the damage buff component of the power in favour for an extra 10-15% increase in defense from the power maybe? [Force Defender]
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It needs to be only 1 point, otherwise you can not rank it up. At the moment you get 10%, 15% and 20% according to the rank, I suggest to make it 20% 30% and 40% if you have the 1 point conversion from defense+dps to only defense.
If it costs 3 points you ll only be able to rank it to 30% not big improvement compared to 20% + damage boost.
This way you can choose between:
- 5 points cost rank 3: defense 40% damage 0% (I do not know if 40% is a fair number it must be tested)
- 4 points cost rank 3: (current state) defense 20% damage +x% depending on the hits.
Ah I did not realized that, I thought it was just an additional to stack to the defenses so, suffering from soft-caps.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!! then it totally makes the power worth it for a support character like my Cascadence
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
With the way it works in mind have something like this:
[Redirected Force]
Rank 1 - 10%
Rank 2 - 15%
Rank 3 - 20%
1 point Advantage: [Impregnable Defense] - You strengthen your shields further on yourself and your allies for increased protection. However as a result you can no longer redirect incoming damage into kinetic energy for you to manipulate.
+ Grants an extra 20% defense to Redirected Force.
- Removes the Redirected Force Damage Buff component of this power.
Values wise this would transform a 16k Force Detonation from Gravitar into a 9.6k hit as a base before any and all resistances...I personally like this, but I have a suspicion this would trivialize the gameplay experience. I'd perhaps say maybe the advantage granting and extra 15% at the very most? And 10% at the very least.
There should be a pay off for a power with that high an energy cost and its a maintain which locks out everything else to boot. So maybe 20% IS acceptable. Either way it needs to be a 1 point advantage.
All things considered...I'm of the opinion that Redirected and Rimefire will appear on LIVE soon without any changes..I'd love to be proved wrong though.
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I've barely tested them.. my character just doesn't have the END to use them.. but I really do hope the cast time v benefit works like Snow Storm. The longer you cast it the longer the buff lasts when you stop casting.
As soon as you stop maintaining the effect drops instantly, and since the maintain is indefinite you might as well love running to combat holding down one button.
Sentinel Aura and AoRP are gonna be popular with this power, as to access a heal you'll need to drop the field.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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While true you may lose a member for DPS...that person using the buff (and I imagine with a lot of other passive buffs) is supporting the team in another manner.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
But you also get the damage boost, and if the modification we are suggesting is implemented the defense buff will be higher at the cost of 0 damage boost.
Yeah.. but they didn't even GET the buff at last patch from what I hear.. I love the power but it needs to actually work... AFTER telepathy
#TelepathyNOW
But of course. :biggrin:
On a completely unrelated note: I think that the Force powers should get the same damage bonus to knock immune enemies as other knock powers. We'll save that discussion for another day.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Sure, after they get a 20% base damage reduction. :biggrin:
I will say, I believe G_C stated only Might gets that bonus. If thats true, then all I'll say is, get in line.
I've already pitched a tent and begun roasting marshmallows. :biggrin:
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
The New Telepathy is all about the debuffs.
For example, I was able to stack up to 4 Regrets by spamming "Shadow of Doubt" on a Master Villain. That's 20% reduction in damage. I tested with another telepathy player on Bludhound. We built 10 stacks easily. That means we reduced a legendary's damage output by 50%.
All of that plus being able to interrupt at will would be way overpowered. I think I see what GC is trying to do here. The real star of these new powers are the debuffs.. not the interrupts. The interrupt seems to meant to be used sparingly not as a main power staple to rely on.
What the new Telepathy Does well is:
a) Keeping control and damage up and going for trash mobs.
b) Debuffing uncontrollable targets.
c) Builds Stacks of Manipulator very quickly.
d) The occasional interrupt to help mitigate "nukes" from the big guys.
I'm totally expecting to be dismissed on this. But I've tested and tested. And when I adopt the above play style the new powers work astonishingly well. And I might add "Shadow of Doubt" is awesome on an Ego Blader! Well it's just awesome period. The damage debuff is more than noticeable.
So what I'm saying is.. standing around waiting to cast an interrupt is not how the set is meant to be played. Even when you are locked out of "interrupt" or "control" you retain access to some powerful debuffs, buffs, and damage.
This makes Telepathy a superior Control/Debuff/Support set.
Short duration (2-4second) debuffs that debuff strength scale with Hold Strength
Do not want:
Long duration (20-30s) debuffs that can be cherry picked
I hear what you're saying. But there really isn't much reason to cherry pick these. for most non-set users quite frankly there are better existing choices for them.
I mean if you were cherry picking would you go for Mental Leech or Devour Essence? Or one of the other better heals the game has?
And what good is a Ego Resistance debuff for anyone but an ego user? If your primary damage type isn't ego, why in the world would you pick an ego resistance debuff?
The only other players who might want these powers are TK bladers. And that actually makes sense.
Yes Shadow of Doubt is good, but if wanted to debuff damage in a non-Ego build, personally I'd take Sigils of Ebon Weakness.. because I wouldn't have to worry about trying to stack.
Anyone who cherry picked here would be kind of gimping themselves. These powers all work their best with someone who'd doing ego based damage. At least that's how I see it.
I think it's a great direction to take... maybe less extreme? Say 8 s debuff scaling upwards to the current duration?
This game is cool because you CAN still pick the powers you want without them being useless!
My Characters
And this is before even BRINGING UP PvP with telepathy..
Why release new powers if they do nothing to help this problem?
If the debuff duration is 8 seconds then players who use INT for their hold strength (through Battle of wits and Manipulator) get to feel the sting of neutering themselves. The obvious issue with (the original) interrupts were that they were 100% potent 100% of the time.. when players who invested in INT used them it meant they had near 100% shut down.
What I propose means players with PRE for HoldStrength will have potentially STRONGER debuffs that are temporary and must be fired at the right time. And players who have INT for HoldStrength will be able to cast a weaker Debuff that is re-castable more often (because INT also lowers the cool-down of the power).
In a game where permanent self buffing is so SO far out of control.. you would think players would welcome a way to negate those effects. Telepathy DESPERATELY needs damage mitigation. There's no block, no active defense, and only Master of the Mind as any type of actual defense.
So in any endgame Content telepathy (debuff) characters will enjoy staying dead.. while magic (buff) characters get unlimited power.
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I have not seen anyone cry: "Dammit Aura of Radiant Protection user.. stop making me survive.. it trivializes the content.. and dont dare use those ebon sigils.. they are way overpowered AoE debuffs"
And yet when I advocate for a temporary almost single target debuff to enemy offense (leaving the caster STILL vulnerable to the REST of the enemies.. unlike Ebon Sigils) it is deemed overpowered because it can shut down ONE target temporarily.
Team buffs include:
And what is there on the OTHER side of that equation? Debuffs include
- Ebon Sigils - a SORCERY Offense debuff.. that ALSO slows enemies and is AoE
...... then... there's
So let me get this gay.. You can amp yourself to unlimited DPS, You can amp your self to unlimited Defense, You can amp yourself to Unlimited Energy, and you can Amp your Team to do all of the above.
And there is no way to debuff against this? Even though you offer "Debuff Protection" as Primary Defense gear and put it in the Ranged Damage stat? So if players wanted to not be neutered they could just pick that option.
I submit to the court of public opinion that debuffing should NEVER be hard-capped by quantity because the +DebuffStrength is not capped and is a QUALITY based mechanic for a reason. If I have more hold strength than is needed.. it should still have the potential to do something. Dodge chance has an actual cap of 100% and when it is reached players are given Avoidance to gear. Debuffers are allowed only ONE stat to gear, and that's +HoldStrength. Some of us have geared in it QUITE extensively and are being told "Too bad.. that's useless".
Why does your combat system have a quality based mechanic that is capped? Rather its capped by quantity or up time or severity.. why are you capping ONLY THIS SIDE of the combat equation?
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It's official I have lost sleep over it.. i went to sleep and kept tossing and turning at the bleak future for people like me who invested LOTS of money into their character to do nothing.
If Debuff Strength as a mechanic in champions online is going to suck. Then give us our Mods and Money back.. no one told US "we're going to cap this feature so don't invest in it". People would be saying the same if you capped Damage output or capped Defense output or capped Aura output to THEIR characters.
I'll start doing it!
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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I will await testing.
Note: Villain and above mobs have at least 10% damage resistance. It appears debuff caps can even prevent mobs (such as Mega Destroid) from going negative resist if their base resist is high enough unless there is some sort of resist penetration present.
Psychic Vortex tooltip damage: 480 damage
Henchman: 3 stacks (died before 4) = 1711 damage
Villain: 4 stacks = 2470 damage
Master Villain: 4 stacks = 827 damage
Legendary (Mega-Terak): 4 stacks = 539
Cosmic (Teleiosaurus): 4 stacks = 538
Cosmic (Mega D): 4 stacks = 387
I don't know if it's possible but if debuff hard caps are here to stay (and they likely are) I'd prefer them to only start once the mob is at zero in whatever stat is being debuffed. So in the case of Mega Destroid (or any other high resist mob) resistance debuffs would be able to reduce its resist to zero and then however much more in the negative up to the cap.
On a side note, unless drastic changes are made to how the debuff caps work I think Psychic Vortex should be changed greatly from what it is now. Since the power so easily hits and goes much beyond the cap I think the base damage should be increased and the debuff amount to resistance lowered or changed to some other debuff.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf