Why is Two-Gun Mojo so popular?

williamkony

It seems to me that it's pretty much the same in damage output and/or energy efficiency as quite a few other powers, many of which have twice the range. Lack of movement lockdown isn't unique to it, either. What is it about TGM that has it such a hot choice?

monaahiru

Two-Gun Mojo is Starter power (you can pick it up with any kind of E-builder) and all other are Tier1-2. That's the difference.

cheesesloppy

williamkony wrote: »

It seems to me that it's pretty much the same in damage output and/or energy efficiency as quite a few other powers, many of which have twice the range. Lack of movement lockdown isn't unique to it, either. What is it about TGM that has it such a hot choice?

In my tests I've never had any other power match the sheer amount of DPS TGMJ can put out. It hits very fast, and very hard. A lot of the maintains that are also good ramp up in damage as they are maintained, but tgmj is consistent throughout the maintain. Couple that with how cheap it is, and how mobile you can be, people flock to it.

In a recent test I used Assault Rifle and 2gmj to test the damage difference. Only way it got close to the damage 2gmj put out was near the end of the maintain with the adv.

bluhman

Don't forget that it also has some defense penetration - of course, with that in mind, it's no wonder that it's now one of the only PvP attacks you see nowadays.

As for actual flat values, the numbers attest otherwise to TGM's DPS and Efficiency being average.

savetheprincess

bluhman wrote: »

Don't forget that it also has some defense penetration - of course, with that in mind, it's no wonder that it's now one of the only PvP attacks you see nowadays.

As for actual flat values, the numbers attest otherwise to TGM's DPS and Efficiency being average.

However, by that chart, it's still the highest DPS munitions power, which would answer the OP's question of why it's so popular.

bluhman

Huh, either I horribly misread something or they have updated that chart since I last saw it.

So yeeeeeeah, TGM is a contender for highest DPS single target attack.

variatas

TGM is somewhere in the range of 40-50% more DPS than Assault Rifle, in my experience. Which is kinda sad, because it means that the only thing AR really has going is the range, and that's not really enough to pick it if you have to choose just one.

roughbearmattach

Also, it looks cool, and its animation "works" with Mechassassin gunhands.

smoochan

Maybe you just group with a lot of Specialists? They are the coolest AT after all..

flyingfinn

Because this

is how you're supposed to shoot when dual wielding pistols.

lunaw78

monaahiru wrote: »

Two-Gun Mojo is Starter power (you can pick it up with any kind of E-builder) and all other are Tier1-2. That's the difference.

Let me get this clear. That power is actually an EB (Energy Builder)?

flyingfinn

No.

you can pick it up with any kind of E-builder

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lunaw78

flyingfinn wrote: »

No.
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Okay.
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forrksakesexco

Hmm equipped my latest (Voiha) with this (after a false start) and it does seem to beat the pants off AR, eats a Necrulitian before they can summon likely as not. I have even given it the acid test and taken it into PVP - yeah I really did.... OK so I only accepted the duel invite coz the guy asked me VERY NICELY but I did win thnx to remembering which slot it was in... eventually. It prolly helped that the guy was 3 levels below me!
BUT HEY YEAH I'm a PVPer big time.....
Actually I felt a bit bad about beating him and apologised in zone chat.

Something tells me this player doesn't quite have the killer instinct we're looking for!

Chestbeamz U so there..

kenpojujitsu3

The power was overbuffed as to have a ridiculously high DPS coupled with a very low energy expenditure. Tack on the fact that it's run-and-gun instead of self-root and in a set with a lot of easy synergies (munitions) and it's not a go to power it's THE go to power for what it does by a ridiculous margin.

monaahiru

kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »

The power was overbuffed as to have a ridiculously high DPS coupled with a very low energy expenditure. Tack on the fact that it's run-and-gun instead of self-root and in a set with a lot of easy synergies (munitions) and it's not a go to power it's THE go to power for what it does by a ridiculous margin.

gradii wrote: »

leave 2gm alone. who cares what some crazy pvpers do. its obsolete. let the normal players have some fun for once.

Ah 2GM isn't OP. Tier 1 maintain power such like [Lightning Arc] with right Slotted Passive works much better for both range and damage.
Merit for using 2GM is, no Lockdown, and it's not Tier 1 but starter power. That's all.

I think Gun is popular then Mutants and/or Magical power.
Gun are sold in markets but mutants, magic ain't in sale.

rtma

I think they should of Buffed 2GM to 25% not 50%, feel more balanced, then again, their is alot of balancing to be done and fixes to be patched.

joybuzzerx

I used 2GM when it was bad (when I say bad, I mean others didn't use it), I'll continue to use 2GM if they make it bad again

That said, let's not make it bad again!

avianos

Just because Crazy Obsessed PvP Elitists OVERUSED IT that does not mean you should punish those who use the power for CONCEPT

as someone who DOES NOT PvP in the Slightest, nerfing 2GM would ruin my Character Concept
I like Two Hand Mojo on my Specialist (as well as Lead Tempest & Bullet Beatdown), and
I want to Remake her into Freeform with Dual Guns Mutations BECAUSE IT FIT WITH HER CONCEPT not because I want to be E3L1T PVP PLAYAR

and to be honest... there are not many Dual Guns Powers in the game!

chalupaoffury

Just because it fits your concept, does not mean it isn't overpowered. I think you kinda missed the point of people talking about how many pvpers use it. It's not that the pvpers are abusing it and that's why it needs a nerf. It's that pvpers try to use the most overpowered stuff possible, and almost all of em have 2 gun mojo. That should tell you something about how overly powered it is.

joybuzzerx

chalupaoffury wrote: »

Just because it fits your concept, does not mean it isn't overpowered. I think you kinda missed the point of people talking about how many pvpers use it. It's not that the pvpers are abusing it and that's why it needs a nerf. It's that pvpers try to use the most overpowered stuff possible, and almost all of em have 2 gun mojo. That should tell you something about how overly powered it is.

Not really. Devs could make every equal to the point that if we listed the powers you'd see the best power is only 1% better than the worst, and people will flock to it. That's what PvPers do (PvEers do it too)

Play any game where they have racial modifiers that are nothing more than fluff, but one races adds just 1 extra DPS versus the others and people will flock to that race.

ajanus

Also, from another point of view, 2GM is also very easy to build around. Concentration and Killer Instinct both go off the same superstat, EGO, so that 2GM build will start doing abnormal dps earlier than many other builds...and since many pve'ers want the highest possible dps early on in order to complete Alerts quicker, this setup is becoming more and more popular.

joybuzzerx

ajanus wrote: »

Also, from another point of view, 2GM is also very easy to build around. Concentration and Killer Instinct both go off the same superstat, EGO, so that 2GM build will start doing abnormal dps earlier than many other builds...and since many pve'ers want the highest possible dps early on in order to complete Alerts quicker, this setup is becoming more and more popular.

Then they either retcon at 40, or make a new character with something else. I know my main uses Dual Pistols, but every other character I've made uses different powers. Why would I want to repeat the same build?

ajanus

joybuzzerx wrote: »

Then they either retcon at 40, or make a new character with something else. I know my main uses Dual Pistols, but every other character I've made uses different powers. Why would I want to repeat the same build?

You don't have to use the same powers at all...I was just saying another reason why munitions builds are popular...the build is easy and synergizes well when combined with superstats, form, and energy unlock.

Plus, I only mentioned 4 powers (out of 14): Builder, 2GM, Concentration, Killer Instinct. How many of your freeforms have at least 4 powers in common? Conviction, Masterful Dodge, Concentration...etc? It's very easy to use the go-to defenses, but then say you aren't repeating a build.

joybuzzerx

ajanus wrote: »

You don't have to use the same powers at all...I was just saying another reason why munitions builds are popular...the build is easy and synergizes well when combined with superstats, form, and energy unlock.

Plus, I only mentioned 4 powers (out of 14): Builder, 2GM, Concentration, Killer Instinct. How many of your freeforms have at least 4 powers in common? Conviction, Masterful Dodge, Concentration...etc? It's very easy to use the go-to defenses, but then say you aren't repeating a build.

Very true! I haven't gotten a lot of characters going, but working on my 4th 40 now, I'm trying to make sure I keep powers diverse as much as possible and it's not always easy, especially when some of them are just concept friendly (Lock & Load for example is just a nice active offense imo).

ajanus

I do it all the time...I even go out of my way to NOT pick Masterful Dodge sometimes just because it seems I pick it on everyone...because, to me, it's the best Active Defense.

Conviction is another one I catch myself a lot on.

I might pick a different set of core powers, but it seems the support powers are all the same. Which doesn't really matter to me, I pick them because I "want" to, and I, like everyone else, have my own favorites that I take more often than not.

I also went through a Lock 'n Load phase lol...now it seems I'm stuck in an Ego Surge one lol. :biggrin:

joybuzzerx

ajanus wrote: »

I do it all the time...I even go out of my way to NOT pick Masterful Dodge sometimes just because it seems I pick it on everyone...because, to me, it's the best Active Defense.

Conviction is another one I catch myself a lot on.

I might pick a different set of core powers, but it seems the support powers are all the same. Which doesn't really matter to me, I pick them because I "want" to, and I, like everyone else, have my own favorites that I take more often than not.

I also went through a Lock 'n Load phase lol...now it seems I'm stuck in an Ego Surge one lol. :biggrin:

I use them both on my main Lock N Load & Ego Surge! 2GM and Lead Tempest. I just didnt feel the need for any other attack except for my Lunge.

What I'm actually sad on is LR versus Quarry. The differences between their Dodge/Avoid just seems so unnoticable, while the damage difference I notice A LOT!

crypticbuxom

joybuzzerx wrote: »

I used 2GM when it was bad (when I say bad, I mean others didn't use it), I'll continue to use 2GM if they make it bad again

That said, let's not make it bad again!

Me too. I used it purely concept. And if they nerf it I'll switch back to using Crippling Challenge and Nailed to the Ground rather than rank it up.

Maybe I'll use Laser Sword again as my alpha strike...oh they're making it an AoE that needs to synergize with 4 other powers.

They'll change and remake all the powers as they please until we get someone who understands balance.

vitalityprime

avianos wrote: »

Just because Crazy Obsessed PvP Elitists OVERUSED IT that does not mean you should punish those who use the power for CONCEPT

as someone who DOES NOT PvP in the Slightest, nerfing 2GM would ruin my Character Concept
I like Two Hand Mojo on my Specialist (as well as Lead Tempest & Bullet Beatdown), and
I want to Remake her into Freeform with Dual Guns Mutations BECAUSE IT FIT WITH HER CONCEPT not because I want to be E3L1T PVP PLAYAR

and to be honest... there are not many Dual Guns Powers in the game!

If you use a power for concept...then "nerfing" said power should not ruin your character concept.

The only changes that can "ruin a character concept" are animation changes.

tfavsb10

chalupaoffury wrote: »

Just because it fits your concept, does not mean it isn't overpowered. I think you kinda missed the point of people talking about how many pvpers use it. It's not that the pvpers are abusing it and that's why it needs a nerf. It's that pvpers try to use the most overpowered stuff possible, and almost all of em have 2 gun mojo. That should tell you something about how overly powered it is.

Please don't nerf this power, or I'm reduced to a "squishy" little blaster again... seriously, this single power along with lead tempest are the only two attack powers I depend on in my build the rest are heals and buffs, and its A PVE Build. Nerfing this power would mean Shadow destroyer mopping the floor with me even harder, not just throwing me across the room, but killing me over and over like when I was using assult rilfe instead of 2 gun mojo. I'd be useless in alerts and nem cons and junk. I'd probally have to rewrite my entire characters story because shes my main character, And I need her to be survivable in PVE.

joybuzzerx

vitalityprime wrote: »

If you use a power for concept...then "nerfing" said power should not ruin your character concept.

The only changes that can "ruin a character concept" are animation changes.

True, but at the same time, in a system where the worst power in the game could be 2% lower than the top power, and people would still flock to the top power in PvP, is no reason to nerf 2GM.

If anything, I would think all the need to do is make you able to move with all the other single target maintains while giving them something different than 2GM.

ashensnow

Yeah 2GM is a bit OP, but it is far from the only one. I am of mixed feelings about this. The changes to 2GM pretty seriously impacted my dual pistols toon (been playing him since shortly after launch). Content that had some challenge to it no longer does.

On the other hand, if OP crap is going to exist in game, then having it available to more power sets seems reasonable in a sort of twisted way.

sagewithbubbles

ashensnow wrote: »

On the other hand, if OP crap is going to exist in game, then having it available to more power sets seems reasonable in a sort of twisted way.

This.

Makes more thematic options "viable".

Now if they'd just add in more thematically-variable/thematically-neutral support powers.

smacky65

I was using 2GMj on a toon before the upgrade, and he was pretty good. After the damage increase he became walking death-ray.

Now I only use it on support-toons, with concentration, killer instinct and an Aura, and it makes for a fun but effective team player.

smoochan

ashensnow wrote: »

Yeah 2GM is a bit OP, but it is far from the only one. I am of mixed feelings about this. The changes to 2GM pretty seriously impacted my dual pistols toon (been playing him since shortly after launch). Content that had some challenge to it no longer does.

On the other hand, if OP crap is going to exist in game, then having it available to more power sets seems reasonable in a sort of twisted way.

Yeah, I particularly like that on my Might character, when she's ready to stop fooling around by punching bad guys with her fists, she can get serious and pull out her two little pistols and really start doing some damage.

chaelk

I used it on support with Aoed , on ranged with NA, then I rememeber why Those characters have con as a secondary.

joybuzzerx

sagewithbubbles wrote: »

This.

Makes more thematic options "viable".

Now if they'd just add in more thematically-variable/thematically-neutral support powers.

Up Celestial Conduit's damage just a little more (or none) but most importantly make it available as a starter power like 2GM is, and you have a power like 2GM that can fit lots and lots of concepts (they can always, just not heal people ).

I love using CC on my TKer Concept, as the animation just looks better than Telekinetic Assault.

chaelk

Lightning arc is the same, you can get it as a starter and it does a lot of damage.

tdits

chaelk wrote: »

Lightning arc is the same, you can get it as a starter and it does a lot of damage.

So does Cleave. You can easily build a high damage Heavy Weapons toon with Cleave as its only real attack with everything else just being for utility.

nepht

Two Gun Mojo is fantastic for building ranged tanks the agro it can pull is epic.

shadowzero66

Someone needs to put Two-Gun Mojo, Telekinetic Assault, Assault Rifle, Particle Beam Rifle, and Lightning Arc in a room and sort them all out.

xienth

shadowzero66 wrote: »

Someone needs to put Two-Gun Mojo, Telekinetic Assault, Assault Rifle, Particle Beam Rifle, and Lightning Arc in a room and sort them all out.

So Telekinetic Assault and Assault Rifle are both assault based so they would cancel each other out, along those same lines Two-Gun Mojo would negate Particle Beam Rifle. Leaving Lightning Arc, which would promptly leave in a flash. Which would leave us with a sad empty room.

variatas

Rather than nerf it, I'd say they should go through and actually buff other powers. It's my understanding that part of why it got such a big buff was because they hadn't touched it since before they decided that Tier shouldn't affect power balance but be a measure of specialization (which I wholeheartedly agree with).

joybuzzerx

Why is it so popular? If running around in game is any indication...Deadpool.

shadowzero66

xienth wrote: »

So Telekinetic Assault and Assault Rifle are both assault based so they would cancel each other out, along those same lines Two-Gun Mojo would negate Particle Beam Rifle. Leaving Lightning Arc, which would promptly leave in a flash. Which would leave us with a sad empty room.

But what if Assault Rifle cancels out Particle Beam Rifle first?

In all seriousness, look at those powers side-by-side.

variatas wrote: »

Rather than nerf it, I'd say they should go through and actually buff other powers. It's my understanding that part of why it got such a big buff was because they hadn't touched it since before they decided that Tier shouldn't affect power balance but be a measure of specialization (which I wholeheartedly agree with).

I think it would be less game-breaking if the few powers that were OP were brought down in line, rather than the other way around. Looking at the patch the buffed 2GM, the few other T0 powers that were touched did not get anywhere near such a boost.

Yes, the devs have said that Tiers shouldn't affect power. They also said that Tier 0 powers, such as 2GM, are the exception. This is because T0 powers are the starter powers lowbies get and the devs want them to be able to use them a few times without worrying about energy. As such, T0 powers should have a low cost and the corresponding power for such a cost. Right now, 2GM has a low cost but deals absurdly high damage relative to that cost.

joybuzzerx

shadowzero66 wrote: »

But what if Assault Rifle cancels out Particle Beam Rifle first?

In all seriousness, look at those powers side-by-side.

I think it would be less game-breaking if the few powers that were OP were brought down in line, rather than the other way around. Looking at the patch the buffed 2GM, the few other T0 powers that were touched did not get anywhere near such a boost.

Yes, the devs have said that Tiers shouldn't affect power. They also said that Tier 0 powers, such as 2GM, are the exception. This is because T0 powers are the starter powers lowbies get and the devs want them to be able to use them a few times without worrying about energy. As such, T0 powers should have a low cost and the corresponding power for such a cost. Right now, 2GM has a low cost but deals absurdly high damage relative to that cost.

So if they did touch it, up it's energy use a bit?

shadowzero66

joybuzzerx wrote: »

So if they did touch it, up it's energy use a bit?

I'm not sure if 2GM's energy cost can be raised to be fair for its currently high damage output while maintaining T0 energy cost levels. It already outshines much more energy hungry powers.

joybuzzerx

shadowzero66 wrote: »

I'm not sure if 2GM's energy cost can be raised to be fair for its currently high damage output while maintaining T0 energy cost levels. It already outshines much more energy hungry powers.

I'm sure it could be nudged up a bit. Not that I'm looking for any sort of nerf to the power. I like it. But then I was using it when it was meh.

Sometimes it's just nice to see your concept be...AWESOME!

Of course, downside to that is, everyone is then using the set for no reason other than it's THE AWESOME!

shadowzero66

joybuzzerx wrote: »

I'm sure it could be nudged up a bit. Not that I'm looking for any sort of nerf to the power. I like it. But then I was using it when it was meh.

Sometimes it's just nice to see your concept be...AWESOME!

Of course, downside to that is, everyone is then using the set for no reason other than it's THE AWESOME!

I enjoy Breakaway Shot despite its relative meh.

Reconciliation could be to split it into two powers: one with the appropriate cost and damage of a T0 power, and the other a non-T0 power with an appropriate cost for its current damage output. Maybe have the second power not shoot "gangsta-style"? Of course, people would still howl and rage at the "nerf".

joybuzzerx

shadowzero66 wrote: »

I enjoy Breakaway Shot despite its relative meh.

Reconciliation could be to split it into two powers: one with the appropriate cost and damage of a T0 power, and the other a non-T0 power with an appropriate cost for its current damage output. Maybe have the second power not shoot "gangsta-style"? Of course, people would still howl and rage at the "nerf".

But...but...gangsta-style is so much more comic-booky! O.O I'd cry at loosing the animation!