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My thoughts on the Forum Malvanum Alert
rokurocaris
Posts: 1,074 Arc User
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! ABSOLUTELY UNWINNABLE!
We are given 1:30 minutes to defeat TWO opponents rated "Super-Villain (tough)", and that's not even the final round!
I just asked another player how we are supposed to win this. The answer: "5 level 40s with good DPS and passive heals". THAT is the standard now or what!?!
No words exist in any language to discribe how hard Cryptic's logic failed on this. "Pay 2 Win" is an understatement, as it does not just take a freeform or vehicle, but five with perfectly min-maxed builds!
In it's current state, Cryptic can be glad this game still has players! The "elite" this alert is winnable for is so small in numbers, there couldn't possibly be five of them in one queue!
I don't expect any average players will even get to see Firewing!
I'm going back to Minecraft.
We are given 1:30 minutes to defeat TWO opponents rated "Super-Villain (tough)", and that's not even the final round!
I just asked another player how we are supposed to win this. The answer: "5 level 40s with good DPS and passive heals". THAT is the standard now or what!?!
No words exist in any language to discribe how hard Cryptic's logic failed on this. "Pay 2 Win" is an understatement, as it does not just take a freeform or vehicle, but five with perfectly min-maxed builds!
In it's current state, Cryptic can be glad this game still has players! The "elite" this alert is winnable for is so small in numbers, there couldn't possibly be five of them in one queue!
I don't expect any average players will even get to see Firewing!
I'm going back to Minecraft.
Post edited by rokurocaris on
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The Live version! As if it was any different. :rolleyes:
Heck, to my understanding, the costume pieces have a chance to start dropping with round 6, so there isn't even that much you're missing out on, the odds of dropping are just lower. Rounds 6-10 were intentionally designed as a challenge, for high-level players, but the alert is open to all.
People don't play this alert for the resources they get after the 5th round, but to win. They want to fight and defeat Firewing. If that is not possible, there is no point in trying.
Instant run failure.
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Ah my bad, there were some balance passes (I think) done over a few iterations on the PTS. Didn't know it was live yet.
Live it is indeed. With these same issues.
It is because the timer just starts before the event starts and keeps ticking while all that blah blah, that makes it impossible with the time.
Formerly known as Rei_Kisagi
Join Date: 19 June 2011
But yeah, ran it 5 times, got to the big 2 twice and nearly got 1 of them down once.. and that's after one player got criticised by another for running a build exploiting boomerangs earlier in the alert.
The last group i ended up in struggled with every wave and i died sooo much in that one i saw more of the corridor than the arena! First timed wave and we were out.
Sure Dr Cerebellum has always been in the squishy fragile dps type so i'm used to hitting the floor a fair bit but clearly the rest of that team, whether new players or on low level characters or both had a struggle the whole way through.
I for one would like to see and even maybe take down Firewing at least once, but i don't see that happening.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
The one success was on a full team of 40's on my FF with 5X Dino devices running and we still only beat Duratok+Ironclad with -1- second to spare.
Duratok and Ironclad are rocking roughly 65% res once they get their Defiance on. They both have about 220k hit points and you have 90 seconds to down them. You need to have a combined single target dps of roughly 8000 or an aoe dps of 4000 to defeat them in that time. (I'm poopy at math so this could be entirely wrong, feel free to correct me).
This is very doable, I would dare say it would be possible to solo this event given the right build. However, there are some problems of course. One, i imagine many people do not smoosh those two together to maximize dps. If you lets them separate, you are setting yourself up for failure. Two, Champions has some steep tiers in player builds.
Here is a parse of a failed attempt (this was taken on pts when the timer was 10 seconds shorter), names omitted except for Dura and Ironclad:
Here we see a stark difference in damage output. Keep in mind those were all damage focused builds.
Here is a parse of a successful attempt:
And another (the last entry was a level 7):
And another (the third entry is a archetype)
Looking at these parses we begin to see some very clear divides in player output. Unfortunately, most players fall in the low in which widdles around 300-500 dps. You don't need to be a tweaked device ridden player to complete this, you just need to have a fair build.
There were a few entries that baffled me, namely I found a player who was using a two Gun Mojo Strafing Run build who was clocking 300dps. How is that even possible you may ask? Well, upon further inspection, their energy management was nonexistant. They had 70 counts of using their energy builder, that's a lot of time of doing basically nothing.
This is a trend I notice with dps differences. Low end numbers are typically due to the constant use of energy builders, where higher output builds are capable of using their abilities without delay. Other trends are unfocused builds that don't know what they want to be, and of course death.
Perhaps before flipping the panic button you should evaluate your build and strategy. I'm not saying to respec into some fotm frankenbuild, you don't need to. But ensure your build has some focus and synergy to it, because the numbers required to beat round 7 are surely attainable.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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THANK YOU!!!! My god I've been trying to friggin tell people this in the alert! It's so much better to FOCUS ON ONE, THEN FOCUS ON THE OTHER!
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Edit: The alert is unfriendly towards low level characters, but frankly so are most alerts. I'd bar it at around 25, maybe more. I'd have to test with a team of mid ranged characters.
You don't need a high end build for this, you need a mid ranged build.
Also,it baffles me why people are complaining about not being able to complete it. You are rewarded for failure (you actually get more G's failing then succeeding currently, lawl). Why must this be completable by all builds? Certainly the system in place suggests this should not be the case.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
They are complaining because completing it is exactly what matters. No one gives a damn about the Gs, it's all about winning the alert. Less than all 10 rounds does not quallify as winning!
Then when they win...they will start complaining that winning doesn't give enough rewards.
That's how it works here.
Just as people will complain for harder content...as long as they keep winning. If they can't win...then they'll complain it's too hard.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Then step up to the challenge?
If you want you can send me a parse of your attempts and I'll give you some insight as to what's going on.
/combatlog 1 to begin parse, /combatlog 0 to stop, easiest to bind it to keys. Start after the cutscene, stop before the next cutscene.
I'm not a fan of the idea that people should need to do an expensive retcon just to meet some sort of standard to complete content thats here for a limited time with an exclusive perk for finishing the event. Sure the cost of a retcon may be a pittance to some but its still excessive just to deal with a limited time event especially with a Silver resource cap (without hideout)
So...Suck it up, try again?
Are you really saying you want to win every single round every time? Did you with Gravitar? Warlord the first time he came out? Hi-Pan? (Okay not this last one he was pretty easy.)
As Kaiserin pointed out (I have the feeling I was one of the numbers on those parse sheets.) AT's are fully capable of doing it, as well as any decently made build. The issue is, you can't expect to run in with a level 6 team and facemop the floor. It can take...Ohmygod A PRE MADE TEAM!
Deliciously nutritious!
Part of the problem is that 5 lvl 6's could Q up. By making that possible you (Cryptic) are implying that is is possible for them to win and therefore setting player expectations to be as such.
The same thing can be said about five level 6's on an Ao'Qepthoth Burst.
Really, level 6's in most scenarios shouldn't be the bar to be graded against.
Deliciously nutritious!
Then take them out of the equation
But that's what we want. And we never get what we want. D=
Deliciously nutritious!
Or make it harder, that would be ok too.
I would rather ride the bumper cars and get hit by everyone then be told I'm too short to ride.
Also...if you're so worried about who joins you on Alerts...form a team.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I am not worried about who joins alerts. You are not understanding what I am trying to say.
Which is:
Make it level appropriate for whatever lvl range Cryptic decides to make it available for.
If it is available for lvl 6's then the implication is that it is possible to succeed at lvl 6.
Gravitar is not for the general public so people don't expect to be able to do that with any old character.
Action figures do not drop at all after completing all rounds.
The team leader only rewarded bug happens in Resistance too.
I strongly disagree with the assumed viewpoint that every new content should be easily beatable by every possible PUG on every attempt. Some players actually enjoy a bit of a challenge.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Harbinger fight?
More like you're told that you're too tall to ride, so they lop off your feet to knock you down to size. :P
They really should advertize alerts as five-man content with optional queue system or something. Get it in people's heads that it's best to form a team first. Because it really is the best way to go.
They did about as well as Gadroon ever do...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Oh man, is that how the devs resolved that one? I wasn't sure how they were going to fix that issue, since the V.O. for Tateklys had already been recorded. I like the solution.
The problem is one of ideology.
There is one camp that believes that play should be accessible to all players, as should success in that play.
There is another camp that believes in progressive challenge.
I haven't played this alert yet, I probably will today, but it seems to me, from what I understand, that this is the best way to meet both players needs.
The win condition is stage 5. If you make it to 5 you completed it, and everything else, like TT said, is bonus.
You win at 5. Period. 6-10 is extra credit/farming/challenge/whatever.
Personally I'm of the belief that everyone should be able to participate, but not everyone should be able to win, and I believe in progressive challenge. This is essentially a survival mode, and in that condition some will always do better than others.
I don't believe that everyone should be able to win for the same reason I don't believe in participation awards or forced advancement, it defeats the point of the challenge and removes the incentive to get better, which alerts have already done enough damage to.
I don't, however, believe in pay to win, but that doesn't seem to be the case here since ATs seem reasonably capable of completing it.
My final point is that the majority of the playerbase/forumites have been asking since launch for increased challenge due to the relatively easy nature of the entire game. This alert not only lets people complete it by level 5, but it also seems to provide something and quite possibly the only thing, challenging for the players who want it.
My suggestion, without having played it yet, would be to make sure it's absolutely clear during gameplay that at stage 5 "YOU WIN!!!" like in so many arcade games.
Maybe something, with voiceover (and this is likely the only time I will ever advocate voiceover), saying
YOU WIN!!!
...now...
SURVIVE!!!!!
I could be completely wrong, but from what I understand, some people like it, some don't, and it's the same ideological issue every game will face forever, and it's something that might be solved with a little presentation.
Told people the same as well, Ironclad first take him to around 1/2-1/3rd HP and hack Duratok to death then kill off Ironclad..works every time.
Even if you go for the kill first go for Iron first.
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what Pion just said. Those are my feelings about this alert... honestly I like the alternative challenge but many people out there feel that they are losing even though they are not (in a way anyway).
I approve this alert I am having a blast with it... of course obviously when it doesn't bug and enemies walk through walls =S
And for the record I am yet to beat Ironclad and Duratok but damn! its gonna be fun trying to get those two down with pugs
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"Those lazy fiends, what a cheap..."
And then I realized it was actually pretty slick and I was like "Well played, sirs."
I also feel like instead of all the cutscenes, they should have done what they did in Telios Tower: have the "villain" up high, have big speech bubbles instead of cutscenes and not break up the gameplay between every round.
1) Because the cutscenes take longer than some fights;
2) Because the novelty wears out fast. You're better off letting people use downtimes between rounds to regroup and plan via Team chat;
3) It's already difficult enough to finish some rounds. Losing stacks of Enrage/Focus/Whatnot between them is only making it more frustrating.
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* Only level 40s. Nothing below!
* Only well-made freeforms. No archetypes!
* 1 tank and 4 damage dealers, with self-heals if possible. No healers!
* You don't have to beat Duratok and Ironclad seperately. AoEs work as well. But DON'T let them seperate if you're doing it this way!
* Round 7 is based purely on luck. Not only PSI, but Argent and appearantly VIPER too can leave the map!
* Use vehicles only for the not-timed rounds. Reloading takes too long.
You guys that enjoy ez content have more than enough to do. Don't be greedy.
Devs, please don't nerf this.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
1. The rewards for the alert are, for all practical intents and purposes, non-existant. Every Grab alert yields WAAAAY more for far less effort and so does the race. (And please don't tell me about costume pieces. They obviously don't drop with any significant frequency, so they might as well not exist at all.)
2. Round 8 is, through malicious intent or, more likely, utter stupidity, designed to exclude everyone but a very select subset of freeform builds. It's a blatant insult to anyone playing a support character (particularly if they're freeform), falling barely shy of outright telling them "we no want you n00b l00zer what no can do dps". Somebody should really be tossed to those alien hound things for having designed this.
3. Yes, nerf THIS. Events should be for everyone; L40 lairs on Elite should be for those who want a l33t challenge. Making this event ridiculously hard doesn't show you listen to player, it exposes how you couldn't be arsed to actually amp up the challenge on the content that should be challenging in, give or take, forever.
I have to say, if it is this difficult, at least make a guaranteed costume piece reward at the end for those that do beat Firewing. It's something more to aim for than the meager resources.
Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe,
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
And who's genius idea was it to start the timer BEFORE the goddawfully long speeches? In it's current state it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to fully complete the event with a PUG which sorta defeats the point of an alert...
Such poor, poor, design also. We're on the moon yet I can barely tell... We fight wave after wave of very common stuff and 2-3 baddies... Whoop-dee-doo... Not only that but it has good chance to bug out and force a failure on your team...
As much as I enjoy the effort to put some real challenge, you just said everything we need to win this. So, for all the people who don't have anything in this list, they can just completely ignore that stuff. Forcing people to play a certain way is just plain stupid, this is about evolving superheroes, not fighting animated pixels with a freakin calculator. There are plenty of other games if we want to rush for OP builds.
Now you can just tell me that Luke Cage and Iron Fist don't go one on one against Thanos. Just to get the idea.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
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I have yet to try it on Live since I have been at work, but with the prize layout, everything seems pretty fair.
Duratok should be changed to Unstoppable.
Other than that, this alert is perfect except that glory doesn't exist for completing the final round.
Yes, no more ez content. No more face rolling the keyboard. Just make every future content as level 30, as long as it is not ez content.
I'm fekkin greedy, for LEVEL 40 content.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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