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My thoughts on the Forum Malvanum Alert

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  • drgmstrdrgmstr Posts: 886 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I personally love the new alert. I haven't seen the bug when mobs are behind the walls and such, and each run has been over round 5 to get the reward so it is doable to at least get the rewards. I do think the timer for the rounds shouldn't begin DURING the cutscene... Each group I have been in that reaches Ironclad/howeveryouspellhisname, those extra seconds could of been put to use to beat the duo. I have only been doing these alerts in my lv 20 Soldier AT. Both with a good single and cone AoE, I don't think I am holding back the groups, I pull my weight trying to clear the mobs quickly. I could see if no one has a decent AoE in the group can see this being difficult to finish.

    Overall I enjoy it.

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  • onlyepicwolfonlyepicwolf Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The Alers is cool and all, but reall? Two tanks, over 200k HP each and less than two minutes? Unless you go in on a pre made team with huge damage dealers, you might as well ignore theis. Tried about 7-8 times now, with teams that dealt a decent amount of damage. Not once were we close of beating either Duratok or Ironclad. I hope this gets looked at and won't dissapear like Destroyer's event, for which people are still waiting to come back.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've completed it and parsed 3 times myself. Looks like an average of 1.3k DPS per member is enough.

    It's certainly doable without devices, but you'll have to cherry pick powers. Archery, Darkness, Heavy Weapons, Might, Earth and Celestial are very likely to have trouble hitting 1.3k on a Cosmic with 6 stacks of Defiance. Funny enough, Telepathy just might be able to do it with Ego Blast + Mind Opener. Never tried a build like that though :p

    Some primary superstat choices are also naturally gimped. Primary Rec and End are used for many DPS-oriented ATs, but their lack of crit severity will put them at a serious disadvantage.

    Primary Int is also disadvantaged because Detect Vulnerability has a smaller effect the higher the target's resists are. In this case, with 32% defense penetration, my main character's attacks seem to have a 48% effect on them. Working backwards, it means their resists should be roughly 140% and Detect Vuln reduced it to 108%. So I gain only 15% DPS from Detect Vulnerability on them compared to over 20% on Gravitar/Hyrg/Viko/other Cosmics. Try putting 140% resist in my damage calculator and see for yourself.

    Of course there's variety in the builds that can handle this, but it's quite a narrow range of choices to reach the correct side of the DPS curve. Saying that those bosses are "icing on the cake" is just sweeping the issue of stat and powerset inequality under the rug.

    Not saying "nerf this" though. More like saying "buff the underperforming powers and stat trees".
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm doing roughly half the damage in most of my groups, and I've been peak at about 7.5k dps when I'm not side kicked. I'm also spreading around about 5-22% resistance debuff. I end up tanking with a Dex/Int/Ego build, because it's so rare to build tanks that can keep aggro from a dps build that goes over 3k. ...And that's with tanks that actually try to tank. I end up wasting a lot of time healing, too.


    It's like a slot-machine, minus the money. You try to get your group composition to match up just right. Even with premade groups, you still can't be sure that the ones you want will be available.

    Without the timer, though, it wouldn't even be that. If were strategy based, you would only have to find the strategy once. After that it would be mindless. I'm not sure if you can make it "challenging" without putting a person on the other end.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My thoughts...

    I felt I need 5 Top PvPer in same team to finish this...

    And most of them are already gone...
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ran it once, got the PSI bug in Round 7.

    I've had 20 years in IT, and if I ever put a known show-stopper bug in production like that, I'd be fired the moment the first bug report hit Product Support's inbox.

    Cryptic, if you're going to give us content in a trickle like this, you damn well better ship it as solid as the &$%@ Rock of Gibraltar.
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  • falchoinfalchoin Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My biggest beef with Forum Malvanum is Cryptic didn't level gate the alert. In a game where the power curve between the lowest performing builds and the highest performing builds takes a couple miles to plot the "one size fits all" approach to content design does not work.

    On top of that is the unskippable cutscenes and the mobs that like clipping inside walls on round 7. All three issues were brought up on PTS before it went live. What is PTS for anyway?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    CO Try-Harder definition of 'Challenging Content': "Things I can succeed at but few others can."
  • blumoon8blumoon8 Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I love the alert and it shows a few quality things about Cryptic. The alien dogs had an AMAZING skin. The arena itself had a nice design. Also.. and very strangely... the first time I saw... lead arena man talking, his movements went well with his speech. I'm seeing some improvements over the usual (well I guess the usual would be nothing >.>).

    Some of those bugs though... they really make that shine go away. We lost a round because of that mob in the wall bug (to think it was only me and one other person fighting) and the timer starting too early is ridiculous. If you can fix that... then please fix it!

    The only other issue is with the crowd. I've only run off pugs and have gotten as far as Duratok (whose voice I love) and Ironclad (he okay). However, there's one pest who queues in, says a hate speech about end game alerts, and then leaves. If anything THAT is more damaging to the alert and the game than anything else because then who is going to want to play it if a troll is running a bunch of queues? I'd say more but I think its against the rules. ^^

    I haven't cared about Champs the past few months but this was interesting enough to get me to log in. It was worth it and a lot of fun. If the events going forward are as a fun as this then I wouldn't mind them if only they happened more often. But let's try to aim for eventual end-game, m'kay? Probably impossible at this point but I've got a feeling.

    I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.

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  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 793 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've completed it 4 times, 2 with PUGs and 2 with an all level 40 team. But I had to have my highest DPS toon.

    I think I'd rather have Round 8 give much more time but also increase the enemy's damage by a lot so healers will actually have a use. So far, I never felt in danger of dying with both of them on me.

    If the intended time was 2:15 (you can see the round start just before the speech) that still means only DPS toons will probably win that round leaving out healers and low DPS tanks.

    And the rewards are kind of crappy for finishing all rounds - 4x Gs so far plus Perk. At least a box of Q should be added for all.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    CO Try-Harder definition of 'Challenging Content': "Things I can succeed at but few others can."

    The only real challenge is using Google-fu to find out what the top tier power combos/damage exploits are :x
  • maleb666maleb666 Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wow... that's how things work around here now???

    You say what you think and you get your post deleted without explanations??? :mad:

    Good to know... good to know...
    eupmtpu59ppn.jpg
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    selphea wrote: »
    The only real challenge is using Google-fu to find out what the top tier power combos/damage exploits are :x
    I know you're being sarcastic, I snickered a bit.

    But I don't want to use exploits. By using an 'Exploit' I am no longer being challenged. I'm using an exploit to win. I don't want to spend more money rebuilding my character just to accommodate an obviously broken alert.

    I am not asking the victory be handed over. What I am saying is that it's quite obvious the timer starting before the cutscene is broken and should be fixed.

    Yes, we should have challenging content. But when it's content that around 5% of the players (mini-maxers and clown-builds) can overcome. You can't make a game with freeform options and punish 95% of the players for not having the capability to accomplish the content.

    Hell, Archetypes don't stand a chance.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My only wish is to skip the freakin' cutscene. I know they put some work into it, but if they can't fix the ******n timer appearing during the cutscene, then might as well skip it.
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  • khadharkhadhar Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My favourite part was Snake Wildlife entering our alert to proclaim "I AM BOYCOTTING THIS ALERT" and then left.

    We still won 4-man.

    But yeah, that PSI bug in round 7 has forced several failures for me now.
    __________________
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    One the note of that alien skin on the dogs... would LOVE to see something like that made into a costume.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    All in all, this is an excellent addition to the Custom Alert rotation. I never considered this an event on par with Nighthawk or Lemurian Invasion. But its well done considering that there is actually NEW things being added. Like character animations and models.

    I'm interested in how this if going to lead to this big story that Cryptic mentioned a few times.

    Though there is something I noticed. The Alert icon for this. I've seen it before on PTS used for the Until Carrier Defense when it was being tested. Its led me to believe that this Forum event has been in the works since before that. At least Firewing was being made since then.
  • khadharkhadhar Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This reminds me, I want a Kzash hound controllable pet... maybe a command animals skin?
    __________________
    Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe,
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    One the note of that alien skin on the dogs... would LOVE to see something like that made into a costume.

    Yeah, the dogs were actually kind of cool looking, expecially since the Gladiator stuff isn't my style at all.

    For my run, right out of the gate, we get up to the Psy guys when it bugs and doesn't spawn a group leaving us to fail on a time out. To be fair this was just the first run and i'll try more after dinner, but i can see why they just gave up so easily on the event.


    did any body else take it the wrong way when he makes the comment about it being for the millions of Jaded fans out there?
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    did any body else take it the wrong way when he makes the comment about it being for the millions of Jaded fans out there?

    jaded - Tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something

    Too much of vehicle nonsense, amiright?!

    But seriously. Hoping vehicles aren't a focus in newer content. Maybe a bonus to game play, but not the primary focus in developing content.
  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The best usable Device in Malvanum Alert.
    [Teleport to Ren Center 10-Pack]

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    Lets runaway from Lowbies!!!! :biggrin:
  • xen0biaxen0bia Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Finally got my first costume piece, the bracers... And guess what...? It's cloth only. I would blow a fuse but I'm so 'jaded' by this game at this point that I'm actually laughing.
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I know you're being sarcastic, I snickered a bit.

    But I don't want to use exploits. By using an 'Exploit' I am no longer being challenged. I'm using an exploit to win. I don't want to spend more money rebuilding my character just to accommodate an obviously broken alert.

    I am not asking the victory be handed over. What I am saying is that it's quite obvious the timer starting before the cutscene is broken and should be fixed.

    Yes, we should have challenging content. But when it's content that around 5% of the players (mini-maxers and clown-builds) can overcome. You can't make a game with freeform options and punish 95% of the players for not having the capability to accomplish the content.

    Hell, Archetypes don't stand a chance.

    Device hoarding works, too.

    Min-max can work with quite a few themes, but not nearly enough. You also can't win with just one optimized build. I think it would take at least two.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    xen0bia wrote: »
    Finally got my first costume piece, the bracers... And guess what...? It's cloth only. I would blow a fuse but I'm so 'jaded' by this game at this point that I'm actually laughing.

    Item made as intended. It's in the category of rest Malvan gladiatorial pieces....
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  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For Duratok/Ironclad, some easy options for a build that can cross 1.3k DPS on them without devices or exploits include:
    1. Conflag with Fireball+UA, Heat Wave+Engulf and Fire Snake
    2. Epidemic with Defile and Fire Snake, possibly Toxic Nanites too
    3. Throwing Blades (even without the exploit), Implosion Device and Strafing Run
    4. Cascade spam if they can get lined up, but Throwing Blades is the new Cascade
    5. Primal Sigils + Sparkstorm + Lightning Storm + Ball Lightning
    6. Pull them against the wall and use Gas Pellets with your favorite AoE. Can mix with Option 1 or 2 for good measure.

    Of course, use an Offensive Passive and run in DPS role, and use Primary Dex, Ego or Str with the severity specs, or Int with Detect Vuln. That should be enough to hit >3000 of the requisite 6500 DPS to nail them. But if the other four are Energy Builder heroes then yes, go with a friend.

    The bosses do Crushing damage and are mostly melee, so Stormbringer passive (works with options 3-5) and/or Flight will solve most aggro problems against them.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    But I thought that the Gas Pellets trick is an exploit.
  • khadharkhadhar Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Item made as intended. It's in the category of rest Malvan gladiatorial pieces....

    Except the Gladiator boots. and the gloves. And the helm 02. :P
    __________________
    Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe,
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Please note that the win condition for the alert is the fifth round. Anything after that is icing on the cake, bonus rewards for tackling more and more difficult rewards.

    Heck, to my understanding, the costume pieces have a chance to start dropping with round 6, so there isn't even that much you're missing out on, the odds of dropping are just lower. Rounds 6-10 were intentionally designed as a challenge, for high-level players, but the alert is open to all.


    THANK YOU.

    I am tired of alerts being autowin all the time. A challenge means that success isn't guaranteed, right?

    I am happy to have an alert that requires a good team. If you want to beat all ten rounds, a PUG made up of low level toons won't do.

    Find a team.

    People make teams for NemCon and Resistance all the time. Not a big deal.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I am tired of alerts being autowin all the time. A challenge means that success isn't guaranteed, right?

    I have no delusions about being among the top-tier of players in this game, but I like to think that I'm at least competent enough to be rated "good". On my first run, by total fluke, the full theam was level 40, and all but one were people I'd teamed with often enough to know that they were at least as good as me, and probably better. We barely took ONE of the Duratok/Ironclad duo out before the timer ran out. Increasing that timer from 1:30 to 2:00 would make it so that most well built teams could complete it, instead of limiting it to the best of the best of the best, with honors, sir!
    sekimen wrote: »
    It's already difficult enough to finish some rounds. Losing stacks of Enrage/Focus/Whatnot between them is only making it more frustrating.

    Most people - including myself - recommend against ranking up Forms. This is one of the few places where ranked up Forms would help; the cut scene is plenty long enough for all your stacks to fall off and the 3 maintained ones to build back up. Three stacks still isn't as goid as eight, but it's better than starting with one.
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  • pallihwtfpallihwtf Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You'll notice that the silly timer starts to run WHEN THEY START TALKING. OMG.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Pallih in game
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    pallihwtf wrote: »
    You'll notice that the silly timer starts to run WHEN THEY START TALKING. OMG.

    Trailturtle has posted that the timer is padded to allow for the cutscene. That means that we're probably meant to have 1:30 for Duratok/Ironclad, not the 1:36 ir whatever we actually get.

    Not saying that I agree with the time we're given, but the timer starting before the cutscene is NOT A BUG. Complain about the time we're given if need be, but stop complaining about things working as they're meant to! (Not directed at you, pallih, but at the constant stream of complaints about this)
    _________________________________________________
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  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    But I thought that the Gas Pellets trick is an exploit.

    Been reported for half a year and no fix from Cryptic when every other exploit reported has been fixed within that timeframe, so I'm taking that as a silent admission that it's WAI.
  • dr490nbr347hidr490nbr347hi Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I got to Firewing on my first go......Then crashed at the the last bar of his health.

    Anyone else?
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    selphea wrote: »
    Been reported for half a year and no fix from Cryptic when every other exploit reported has been fixed within that timeframe, so I'm taking that as a silent admission that it's WAI.

    I wasn't being serious. Its working as intended as much as crowd control is.
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    blumoon8 wrote: »
    I love the alert and it shows a few quality things about Cryptic. The alien dogs had an AMAZING skin.
    One the note of that alien skin on the dogs... would LOVE to see something like that made into a costume.

    Funny that you mention them. The Kzash Hound is most likely a byproduct of Neverwinter, if not outright a rejected monster design from it. It looks much like the Howler mount.

    Maybe we'll get one as a sidekick when/if that system is added. A super rare sidekick, from a Lockbox, of course. :tongue:
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Device hoarding works, too.

    Min-max can work with quite a few themes, but not nearly enough. You also can't win with just one optimized build. I think it would take at least two.

    So CO has officially started to become "Be the hero we require you to be!" :rolleyes:
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So CO has officially started to become "Be the hero we require you to be!" :rolleyes:

    That started when On Alert abolished Crowd Control, CO is becoming like this:

    Champions Online: Rise of the DPS

    Support Toons are good for glass cannon teams, which are all in all quite rare as most cannons can take care of themselves.

    Tanks are still good but as DPS is on the increase..targets arent staying alive long enough (in some instances) to be tanked.

    Crowd Controllers - LOL, don't make me laugh... *goes off and cries in a corner, hugging a picture of pre On Alert Ego Storm*
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I will say saying this alert takes at least a team of 5 tanky DPS it is totally undo-able for users of AT's.
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Funny that you mention them. The Kzash Hound is most likely a byproduct of Neverwinter, if not outright a rejected monster design from it. It looks much like the Howler mount.

    Maybe we'll get one as a sidekick when/if that system is added. A super rare sidekick, from a Lockbox, of course. :tongue:


    The base model for the hounds looks like the pets that Kigatiliki has. Neverwinter probably modified them.
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    I will say saying this alert takes at least a team of 5 tanky DPS it is totally undo-able for users of AT's.

    Five well-built ATs of level 35+ can handle the Alert just fine.

    Remember, getting to round 6 is already a success--everyone is focusing on a flawless victory. You don't have to finish round 10 to get a reward.

    "But I couldn't get to the tenth and final round with my level 21 toon in a PUG! WAAAH!"

    Gods! Are we at the level where "challenge" = "autowin"? Really?
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  • onlyepicwolfonlyepicwolf Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The base model for the hounds looks like the pets that Kigatilik has.

    Not even close, Kzash Hounds looks like armored reptiles of some sort while Kigatilik's pups are just Ice Demons on four legs, heh.
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So CO has officially started to become "Be the hero we require you to be!" :rolleyes:


    I've always felt stifled by the powers system. It interferes with aesthetics, rather than enhancing them. It's the reason I didn't want to subscribe after playing the beta. My expectations faded by the time Free For All started, and I gave it another chance because I really like the costume editor.

    How does one make content for such a game?

    The offense and defense disparity is huge. Some people can take twenty times as much damage as others without healing. Some can do sixteen, or even forty times as much damage as others. This is assuming the levels are the same, and no exploits are used.
  • thearkadythearkady Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Remember, getting to round 6 is already a success--everyone is focusing on a flawless victory. You don't have to finish round 10 to get a reward.

    Wait, what you get after round 5 is considered a reward? It looked like an insult to me, but maybe I'm the only one who though of comparing it to what any random Grab Alert or the silly race yield.
    "But I couldn't get to the tenth and final round with my level 21 toon in a PUG! WAAAH!"

    Gods! Are we at the level where "challenge" = "autowin"? Really?

    Really? Did you forget to actually read what you replied to or are you deliberately being an arse? The key copmplaing is round 8 is too hard on a PUG that happens to be all level 40s or at least very close.

    This is not an elite lair, it's supposed to be a fun event for everyone (or so I felt I was being led to believe, no matter how pointless and sales ploy-y the race felt).

    Good content would highlight how a well-built dedicated L40 pure tank is an asset just as much as a well-done dedicated L40 support toon. So all in all, it's safe to say round 8 is a piece of utter ****.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Learn to build right, learn to play right. What is the point if everything is so easy.
  • manwholaughsmanwholaughs Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My thoughts on this alert:

    Looked neat at first, only to find it has random bugs that stop you from advancing onwards, idiotic timers on certain rounds (barely a minute and a half for two super bosses, how about no), and an unbalanced team up function that can really ruin the experience (should have been like the hero games where it teams you up with players close or equal to your level, and then balances the difficulty of the alert accordingly, guess that would have been too much work though).

    Final summation - A rushed, broken and half-assed "temporary" event in a time where the game is starving for permanent new content.

    Additional note: I think the reward system is broken for this alert too.
  • thearkadythearkady Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Self-righteous arrogant hogwash.

    Someone building an effective support toon is building right and someone who manages to actually be an effective tank in the underwhelming tank role is argueably a building god, but they got an excessively short end of the stick from Cryptic on this one.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Learn to build like me with a selective build, learn to play with exploit clown-builds. What is the point if everything is so easy for a select small percentile of try-harders that believe 'challenge' means 'doable for a select elite'.

    I fixed this for you.

    I know how to 'build right'. I know how to 'play right'. Most people do. But this is an alert with a challenge only a select few mini-maxers can succeed at, if they are on a team. That is not a challenge, it's a requirement.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have yet to find a group to successfully complete this, the two times the 7th round didn't bug (Haven't tried now that this is supposedly fixed), I was groups where people stood in the center of the arena and didn't move. The only time the character attacked was when the where hit.

    The 11k resources given as a reward is definitely not a good enough incentive to try this gain.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,185 Cryptic Developer
    edited May 2013
    I fixed this for you.

    I know how to 'build right'. I know how to 'play right'. Most people do. But this is an alert with a challenge only a select few mini-maxers can succeed at, if they are on a team. That is not a challenge, it's a requirement.

    Then you'd know that this alert isn't only for a few select minmaxers.

    I don't know what players want for content or what they wants games to be. As far as I can tell many of the complainers in this thread would be happy if all new content consisted of a button that upon clicking granted a reward. Of course then there would still be complaints that the button wasn't big enough for them to drag their mouse over.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Five well-built ATs of level 35+ can handle the Alert just fine.

    Remember, getting to round 6 is already a success--everyone is focusing on a flawless victory. You don't have to finish round 10 to get a reward.

    "But I couldn't get to the tenth and final round with my level 21 toon in a PUG! WAAAH!"

    Gods! Are we at the level where "challenge" = "autowin"? Really?

    Well built ATs? What is this juju you speak of >_>
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
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