test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Is CO forgotten?

245

Comments

  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mensar wrote: »
    Wow.. so, here's what I see.

    People that love the game but that are dead-set on killing it by being pessimistic, incurably negative (call that redudant if you want) and feeding off each other's depressive thoughts.

    Want this game to fail? Keep up the fearmongering...

    Yes, it's fearmongering because you have no proof, you're just spreading your doubts as though they are a crisis or dire news.

    You have NOTHING to go on.

    I think you're being too harsh on pessimistic players. The reason why a lot of us are pessimistic is because PWE / Cryptic hasn't given us much to be optimistic about for the longest time. PWE / Cryptic is part of the equation here and the burden is on them to give us a reason to be genuinely optimistic. Regular SotG's to inform us that they have significant and well-informed development plans down the road is a start.
    mensar wrote: »
    But one thing you WILL accomplish is pushing away people that might want to start playing the game and.. oh, I don't know, SPEND MONEY HERE.

    So how about we all put on our little smiley faces and go buy some zen.

    Well here's the problem with that. People have been saying time and again that they feel that their investment is benefitting the other two games in terms of development more than this one. Spending on ZEN to purchase things from the Z-store gets the person the relevant product or service, but it also gives an expectation that the continued investment will contribute to the game's overall development. MMORPG's in general are expected to have continued development after all.

    Cause and effect. If the company continues to do things to make its customer base unhappy then it's only fair that the customers give the proper feedback. While I doubt anyone is against wanting to pull new players into the game, it isn't right to pull the wool over one's eyes and pretend that everything's peachy just for the sake of it getting new players in.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It's also worth noting that Champs is doing well within its scope. We all know we're not a blockbuster like STO, but with the expectations that we're setting right now, we're looking good on our metrics.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have seen nothing to make me think Champs will close, and I'm seeing mostly positive trends.

    If that's really the case then at the very least a possible risk of CO being closed down is nothing to worry about. A small comfort but comfort nonetheless.
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I've been asked not to talk about it until we know how we'll use it. :X It's marketing, we want to be able to make a splash with the announcement.

    Ah, alrighty. Just wonderin'. :smile:
    @HangingDeath

    Deliciously nutritious!
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I've been asked not to talk about it until we know how we'll use it. :X It's marketing, we want to be able to make a splash with the announcement.

    Could I suggest that whatever it is includes a title at the very least? I haven't purchased a founder's pack, and probably won't, but after skimming through that list I saw other games getting titles. That seems like something within the realm of reason and possibility.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • honestresearcherhonestresearcher Posts: 657 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I have almost forgotten about CO, playing other games. I remember and look back and say the same thing i have for many years "great potential".

    I wish i could have took over and righted every wrong about this game but with every answer being (besides no answers for years...of course) "no" "we dont have the resources" (you DID) , and of course "we'll add it to our list of 'dont give a crap".

    Lack of giving a toss about the game and the community for years and then being like 'oh its all ok!" I dont like to be so...but rightfully, you can expect me to be more than cross. It's NOT ok.


    If i had the opportunity to make power edits and balance the game both for PvE and PvPers, id show you a beautiful new world, i know how to make it right, and so do some of you.
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I have almost forgotten about CO, playing other games. I remember and look back and say the same thing i have for many years "great potential".

    I wish i could have took over and righted every wrong about this game but with every answer being (besides no answers for years...of course) "no" "we dont have the resources" (you DID) , and of course "we'll add it to our list of 'dont give a crap".

    Lack of giving a toss about the game and the community for years and then being like 'oh its all ok!" I dont like to be so...but rightfully, you can expect me to be more than cross. It's NOT ok.


    If i had the opportunity to make power edits and balance the game both for PvE and PvPers, id show you a beautiful new world, i know how to make it right, and so do some of you.

    Aaaaaand

    /thread.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited March 2013


    It's also worth noting that Champs is doing well within its scope. We all know we're not a blockbuster like STO, but with the expectations that we're setting right now, we're looking good on our metrics.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have seen nothing to make me think Champs will close, and I'm seeing mostly positive trends.

    Well Champs at the time of me posting had around 1000 peeps on and its mid week. Thats Jade Dynasty numbers and PW is happeh with that one also :3


    ( From what I am seeing with JD's updates and stuff)
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • hocofaisanhocofaisan Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Lets be honest:

    If they had the CO item available for Hero of the North Purchasers, this forum would have pitched a hissy fit.

    You guys just can't be pleased.
    POSITIVE ABOUT CO IN 2013!
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    hocofaisan wrote: »
    Lets be honest:

    If they had the CO item available for Hero of the North Purchasers, this forum would have pitched a hissy fit.

    You guys just can't be pleased.

    Wouldn't bother me if there was something for CO included with the rest of the games getting bonuses. What is kind of a bother is that I know some players who have the Founders for NW but the only other PWE game they play is CO but have to wait for their CO bonus while the other games get it straight away.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
    edited March 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Thats Jade Dynasty numbers and PW is happeh with that one also :3

    Also true! :biggrin:
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I have almost forgotten about CO, playing other games. I remember and look back and say the same thing i have for many years "great potential".

    I wish i could have took over and righted every wrong about this game but with every answer being (besides no answers for years...of course) "no" "we dont have the resources" (you DID) , and of course "we'll add it to our list of 'dont give a crap".

    Lack of giving a toss about the game and the community for years and then being like 'oh its all ok!" I dont like to be so...but rightfully, you can expect me to be more than cross. It's NOT ok.


    If i had the opportunity to make power edits and balance the game both for PvE and PvPers, id show you a beautiful new world, i know how to make it right, and so do some of you.

    I really wish you would, Snake. Beyond all people's opinions you have always given hard fact.

    Perhaps you would collaborate on a powers table taking damage, range, cooldown, activation time and effect into consideration? Showing the in-game results vs your optimized version.

    It's quite obvious that the powers designers have abandoned us.. lets work on it together.
  • deviousideviousi Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    "Is CO Forgotten?"

    Short Answer: No

    Long Answer: The focus of the game certainly has changed as Cryptic went from a open-studio to being bought by Perfect World International/Perfect World Entertainment (Or as I call it, PWEI).

    I will admit, the community has grown frustrated with the state of the game and a lot of maps aren't as near as populated as they were years ago. However, does this mean that CO is dying or that Cryptic has left it out to dry?

    Short Answer: No

    Long Answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

    Edit:
    To add, though I don't quite agree on some changes as well as bits and pieces of the current state of the game, I do not feel like it is being neglected.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    cyrone wrote: »
    And now I'm curious as to what the item(s) could be...and how, if it was created for CO, could Tech issues prevent it from being implemented in CO.

    Sorry to say it but the explanation given sounds more like:

    Cryptic/PWE: "Oh, crap. I knew we were forgetting something! Quick! TrailTurtle, tell the CO forums something that will placate them for the time being."

    Pretty much this. I'm not buying the PR ploy, not with the lackluster development I've seen so far.
    This game has more "tech issues" than any other that prevent things from being put into it. It's been years of these "tech issues". Who is this "tech", what are his "issues" and who called him a "tech"?

    ...
    ...
    What?

    The "tech issues" is that there's no devs to code any of it.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Pretty much this. I'm not buying the PR ploy, not with the lackluster development I've seen so far.


    The "tech issues" is that there's no devs to code any of it.

    I wish I could do a human microphone on a internet forum.

    #OccupyChampions
  • mensarmensar Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Well.. if you want you can submit suggestions on some of the great ideas people are mentioning. Someone in another thread just mentioned that STO has a way to BUY an increase to carrying capacity for silvers as a micro transaction.

    Something like that may work well for CO. Not directly with the challenges of different coding, but still worth mentioning.

    I wouldn't suggest going overboard and designing things for the game. But that's on you :biggrin:

    I do about all I can to help the game by making myself a presence in the game (sure, I'm still human and can have my moments especially on all the pain meds I'm on from the surgeries I've had for the last year and will for the next 3 months but I at least try to catch myself if I'm ranting at an exploiter or getting trolled, etc) and try to keep a positive outlook. I have a memorable name so folks ask me questions.... constantly! And that's fine, I try to answer them as much as I can. I'm nobody important. But I try to make an impact every time I'm on even if it's in a small way. Help a newbie, give something away, try to dispell rumors, etc.

    In a game this size, it's very easy to get involved. We have a great set of folks in the game. There are really only a few black sheep and a couple of them stick out like sore thumbs on the boards here. Not in this thread, but some of you know what I"m talking about (no names, please).

    So, what is there to lose? Jump in, make your mark. The game will ever only be as good as you let it be. Negativity won't help.

    But a community is something people actively search for. Especially with the horrible ones most games have.

    This message brought to you by the superhero:
    Bacon Overlord

    All available action figures, check.
    Hit the global cap, check.
    All lore and event perks done, check.
    All 1K mob perks done, check.
    All nemesis mob perks done, check.
    Break 20,000 perk points, check.
    Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!

    Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    My mark has been made. PFF is no longer absolute garbage. :biggrin:
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    if not, we'll have a new item in reserve that we can make available in other means.
    I sincerely hope we somehow can get access to whatever you thought up without having to buy the Hero of the North pack. Something neat to spend my stipend on would be nice.
  • ravancheravanche Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wethree1 wrote: »
    That's my fear for Champions. Wasted potential. Honestly, a big new release like Perfect World has done for other games, something like a "Dark Champions" or the the Foundry with the proper marketing push, COULD make it shiny and new enough to be rejuvenated. It did for CoH with CoV. That was HUGE.

    A small FYI. Having spoken with several of the guys at the late Paragon Studios, CoV was a massive bomb financially. They lost money bigtime due to people buying it, trying to play just villains, finding next to no-one around, or just getting frustrated with the layout of the maps, and leaving. Sure, the ATs were popular, but they didn't start seeing major life until people could switch sides. According to PS, CoV was "the single biggest failure we ever had, and the closest we came to closing up shop."

    So if they do anything here, PLEASE don't make it like CoV.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mensar wrote: »
    Well.. if you want you can submit suggestions on some of the great ideas people are mentioning. Someone in another thread just mentioned that STO has a way to BUY an increase to carrying capacity for silvers as a micro transaction.

    Something like that may work well for CO.

    STO has a lot of stuff that could work well in CO and the same group that about three people (one who is using an alt account from their usual...) continually ride for being negative have been suggesting them for as long as STO has had them and before some people showed up here to notice.

    Add foundry and instant veteran rewards for LTS purchases to the list of things STO does that CO could use, that people have suggested should come over for a very long time now. Suggestions only mean something when they are followed up on and those of us who've been here since jump know the times when suggestions were followed up on but more to the current situation know when they weren't and aren't.
    mensar wrote: »
    on all the pain meds I'm on from the surgeries I've had for the last year and will for the next 3 months.

    Sincerely sorry to hear/read this.
    ________________________________________________
    My Amazon author page
    How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
    Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
  • beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mensar wrote: »
    Well.. if you want you can submit suggestions on some of the great ideas people are mentioning. Someone in another thread just mentioned that STO has a way to BUY an increase to carrying capacity for silvers as a micro transaction.

    Not that this already has been suggested here hundred of times, and i've sayed it again and again that i simply don't understand why this isn't implemented here, since that is such an easy way to create some money, and also helps against problems like scamming.

    Last time i suggested it was yesterday btw.: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3055761&postcount=3
    R607qMf.jpg
  • honestresearcherhonestresearcher Posts: 657 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    I really wish you would, Snake. Beyond all people's opinions you have always given hard fact.

    Perhaps you would collaborate on a powers table taking damage, range, cooldown, activation time and effect into consideration? Showing the in-game results vs your optimized version.

    It's quite obvious that the powers designers have abandoned us.. lets work on it together.

    EVERY . SINGLE . CHANGE would come with a video 'explaining why' and 'showing why'.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    EVERY . SINGLE . CHANGE would come with a video 'explaining why' and 'showing why'.

    All words, no action.

    Quite easy to say what one would do in a situation. Totally different what one actually does.

    Have you even put in an application to Cryptic if you are dying to get at the code or you just expect them to hand over their hard work to you?
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    CO hasn't been totally forgotten. It's just moving at a snail's pace and that's just quite frustrating.

    In my opinion, it's also moving at a snail's pace in the wrong direction, with lockboxes and vehicles and content that gets cycled rather than content that stays.
  • baroness1980baroness1980 Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    CO hasn't been totally forgotten. It's just moving at a snail's pace and that's just quite frustrating.

    In my opinion, it's also moving at a snail's pace in the wrong direction, with lockboxes and vehicles and content that gets cycled rather than content that stays.

    THIS

    There are many ways to please people... Get comic series back... release one issue per month for free to Gold players (Value for gold players is incentive for people to subscribe) and letting silver players buy it or wait till the story is finished and buy it in a bundle (with a discount... price of 5 issues for 6 or 7 issue content ONCE finished)

    Improve the Nemesis system? Custom minions have been requested many times... again... this could be a free update for gold players and let silver players buy this option... maybe as added value to a freeform slot.

    New Powerset? Yes i would pay for this... Staff Fighting? Plant Control? just to name 2

    New Costumes! You will always get me spending money for this.

    Foundry!!! We really... REALLY need this... user generated content is the big selling point for NWO, it could become the most revitalizing selling point for THIS game as well.

    And then there are myriad of quality of life suggestions, such as the currency consolidation threads,.


    The ideas and positive feedback is there... but that becomes harsh criticism when all those suggestions don't even get an answer by a mod, it just feels like you are pitching ideas to a wall... no answer... negative or positive... nothing.
  • amontillado1amontillado1 Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    CO hasn't been totally forgotten. It's just moving at a snail's pace and that's just quite frustrating.

    In my opinion, it's also moving at a snail's pace in the wrong direction, with lockboxes and vehicles and content that gets cycled rather than content that stays.


    This.

    It makes sense that CO is an old game, it doesn't (presumably) have the financial returns of other games, and both Cryptic and PWE being businesses need to make enough money to make the effort worthwhile. it's not wrong that their focus skews to other products.

    But I do wish the development of Champs was more in line with why *I* choose Champions over all their other games. The superhero genre, and being able to play MY character.

    Vehicles are a great idea to have in a superhero game. It was a major update to the game. it gives us new ways to play, new things to collect and new things to strive for.
    Unfortunatley, it added nothing to the superhero feel of the game, and it in no way reflects our characters. These vehicles could fit into any sci-fi setting (where they would in my opinion be a better fit).

    Customizable, as billed in the lead up to vehicles, to Cryptic means weapon and defense loadouts. The focus is on combat, and "game mechanics" only. In fact it seems the current monetization scheme precludes it being anything else.

    A super's vehicle, like his or her costume, needs to be an extension of the CHARACTER. Customizable needs to include what the vehicle looks like. Invest as much or more dev time into a "costume" system for vehicles. I won't spend a dime on a lockbox. I blow all sorts of money on costume sets.

    Champions strength is in it's character creator, it's use of costume slots, and it's ability allow the players to "own" their character. Build on that.

    Oh and less I forget... Foundry GOOD, Lockboxes BAD.
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Yeh, crawling at a snail's pace in the wrong direction is little worse than nothing. Just a little.

    I wish they would listen to us even just a bit. What people say that they want on the forums is fairly consistent and reasonable. Bug fixes, content, powers, customization--this was bread-and-butter stuff in CoH. It and consistently made people happy there. We need Matt Miller!

    I think part of the problem is that it seems no one in the industry really believes Superhero MMO's are viable right now. But that's obviously bunk based on how successful comic books were while we were all growing up and the current blockbusting that Superhero movies are doing right now. Hell, console Superhero games have been doing awesome since before the movie craze and they still are!

    Perfect World either needs to start to believe and really take advantage of what they have already sitting in their lap, or someone out there needs to see the opportunity. I'd love it to be THIS game since it's based on such a great and time-honored IP.

    So let's all clap for Tinkerbell!
  • baroness1980baroness1980 Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wethree1 wrote: »
    We need Matt Miller!

    Yes

    YES

    YEEEEEEEEEEES

    Bring THE Posi, he could offer a nice new perspective to CO
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wethree1 wrote: »
    Yeh, crawling at a snail's pace in the wrong direction is little worse than nothing. Just a little.

    I wish they would listen to us even just a bit. What people say that they want on the forums is fairly consistent and reasonable. Bug fixes, content, powers, customization--this was bread-and-butter stuff in CoH. It and consistently made people happy there. We need Matt Miller!

    I think part of the problem is that it seems no one in the industry really believes Superhero MMO's are viable right now. But that's obviously bunk based on how successful comic books were while we were all growing up and the current blockbusting that Superhero movies are doing right now. Hell, console Superhero games have been doing awesome since before the movie craze and they still are!

    Perfect World either needs to start to believe and really take advantage of what they have already sitting in their lap, or someone out there needs to see the opportunity. I'd love it to be THIS game since it's based on such a great and time-honored IP.

    So let's all clap for Tinkerbell!

    You will probably never see Matt Miller working for a studio owned by Jack Emmert again. Much implied enmity.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • nymysys1nymysys1 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    As a STO and former COX player moving to CO, it seems to me that if Cryptic sat down to think about it, putting the Foundry in CO should not only be a no brainer and top priority, but that the Foundry and its functionality should become the centerpiece around which all their games revolve.

    Their three games share one thing in common; at their foundation, they are based on story driven, episodic content.

    NWO = Dungeons and Dragons = modules and about a zillion books

    STO = television and movies (which are really just long television episodes)

    CO = comics (from comic strips to individual comics to mega cross title story arcs).

    It seems that every MMO developer struggles with content creation at a pace that is acceptable by the content consumer. I contend this is a struggle that they will never overcome if they maintain content creation as an exclusive developer activity (or even a primary one). A good chunk of the player base for Cryptic games (STO and CO specifically) are attracted to the games because of the IP (Trekkies and comic book fans) and they want WANT story based content; it is what the IPs are really based on. Furthermore, many may be aspiring writers or think they could tell a story better than it was told in the IP they love. What better way for someone to hone their ability to write a comic/episode than to develop interactive content that others that may share their critical views of the IP/genera (other trekkies/comic fans) can experience and provide feedback on?

    Cryptic should leverage this unique aspect of their playerbase that their IPs provide by making the Foundry the ultimate in player driven content creation, then advertise this feature to drive players that may be burned out from other aspects of the standard MMO model (especially as they grow older). The Foundry really is the niche that Cryptic has over the other MMO producers, and they should capitalize on it. Focus on making parts for and functionality in the Foundry and let the players create far more content than they can on their own.
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    But what do we know, right? We're just experienced, long-time MMO players who are paying money to play :(.

    I have nothing against Jack, but Matt knows how to develop a game so that you think about it all day and can't wait to get home to log in. I can't believe that kind of talent is going unused.
  • drmechanodrmechano Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You will probably never see Matt Miller working for a studio owned by Jack Emmert again. Much implied enmity.

    Mainly because back when CO was first launching, Jack actually employed people (and is implied to have done it himself) to go onto the CoH forums and try to steal players which lead to the forums getting ridiculously tight restrictions on what things people could discuss.

    For a while ANY videogame talk was forbidden while before people were discussing all sort of things from Pokemon to Dark Souls, hell there was even other MMO talk on there. All that friendly chatter gone because Jack was being a [censored]. The forums got a lot less friendly and open in their mood after that.

    Eventually the restrictions slowly got lifted but any other MMO chat was still banned, bizarrely to the point of banning chat about NCsofts other MMOs (like talking about Wildstar).

    The CoH playerbase was actually kind of glad when Jack stepped down because he had his "my way or the highway" approach to the game, he would not listen to the playerbase and had his own vision. This can be good but when the playerbase, in unison, is bringing up all sorts of problems and Jack doesn't listen, it leads to bad times.

    That and he was the figurehead for both the Global Defense Nerf and the Enhancement Nerf, one came right after the other when Jack had promised 'no more stat nerfing' after the GDN (he wasn't lying, he didn't nerf stats but enhancements, basically using politician speak to get round the issue). There was still hatred for the guy even before the game closed down. This hatred was overshadowed, admittedly, by the hatred towards NCsoft who were shutting down a still pretty profitable game on a whim.

    Under Positron the game actually flourished (Inventions got added, Power Customisation finally came about thanks to Back Alley Brawler, Going Rogue added sideswitching, a lot of annoying niggling bugs got fixed) unfortunately the CoH team made some bad choices, namely focusing on the Mission Architect for like 3 issues in a row and then having to spend forever trying to balance it only for it to end up forgotten after six months. the MA was a complete waste of resources on that front.

    Praetoria (the new starting zone added in Going Rogue) also became all but abandoned after six months from launch due to, among other things, it seperated them from non-praetorians, meaning friends couldn't team up if they were pure hero or pure villain which split the playerbase more than the old hero/villains divided already did. The difficulty was somewhat ridiculously for the solo unfriendly ATs like starting defenders or controllers due to the mobs (and rumour would have it the entire Praetorian set of zones) being designed for high level player then brought down to low level.

    The delay of the Incarnate system basically stripped out anything level capped characters could get out of Going Rogue and when it was introduced they basically made 'endgame raiding' a thing, while the 'raids' were a lot quicker and a lot more casual friendly than raids from WoW it still riled the playerbase somewhat and did cause people to leave. They couldn't pump out content fast enough for it and when they tried to force people to run the new raids in order to unlock the next tier of incarnate abilities people basically told them to "[censored] off" and the outcry was enough that the idea of seperate incarnate salvage per tier (apart from the Alpha slot and the other four slots introduced later) got scrapped.

    There seems to have been a tipping point in the Mission Architect, once they wasted the resources of THREE ISSUES on the damn thing, stuff started to go down hill with the occasional peak like Power Customisation.
  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I think we'll know soon after NWO launches. At the moment, they'd be fools not to be doing their damndest to make sure the launch goes as well as possible, and as much of the game is established at launch.

    That said, STO is doing quite well for its age, and seems to keep getting stronger. Superheroes may not be quite as safe an investment, but I do think investing in CO -- repairing the broken bits, giving us a Foundry, revising the Nemesis system and the end game, reviving and reincentivizing PVPing and instancing -- would pay dividends over the long term, both for the game and the company. Give CO a staff one-third the size of STO's, and they could still do some impressive things.
    /CanadaBanner4.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ravanche wrote: »
    A small FYI. Having spoken with several of the guys at the late Paragon Studios, CoV was a massive bomb financially. They lost money bigtime due to people buying it, trying to play just villains, finding next to no-one around, or just getting frustrated with the layout of the maps, and leaving. Sure, the ATs were popular, but they didn't start seeing major life until people could switch sides. According to PS, CoV was "the single biggest failure we ever had, and the closest we came to closing up shop."

    So if they do anything here, PLEASE don't make it like CoV.
    Can I quote you the next time someone starts a thread saying we "need" a villain side?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    but I do think investing in CO -- repairing the broken bits, giving us a Foundry, revising the Nemesis system and the end game, reviving and reincentivizing PVPing and instancing -- would pay dividends over the long term, both for the game and the company. Give CO a staff one-third the size of STO's, and they could still do some impressive things.

    Don't just think it--you're right! And that's what I just can't comprehend! The return on investment of just a modicum of good development in CO would be proportionately huge (not new Blockbuster game huge, but proportionately huge compared to the resources devoted) and wouldn't take enough resources to detract from their other projects after NWO launches.

    Gods I hope they are actually reading this thread.

    PS- Just saw jonsills' post. CoV was an amazing vision that just didn't pan out in the real world. I personally didn't pay much attention to it because I was playing a SuperHERO game. I honestly like the Nemesis system here MUCH better. Instead of a Villain side, they need to expand and increase customization of the Nemesis system. It's really a brilliant start.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    THIS

    There are many ways to please people... Get comic series back... release one issue per month for free to Gold players (Value for gold players is incentive for people to subscribe) and letting silver players buy it or wait till the story is finished and buy it in a bundle (with a discount... price of 5 issues for 6 or 7 issue content ONCE finished)

    Yes to more CS/AP. Dear $DEITY no to making them paid only. FFs alone are a lot of incentive to subscribe. We need more content for everyone.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    If we ever get "villains," I strongly prefer that it not be black and white like the last game. With a bit of adjustment to the tutorial(and a lot more work on the rest of the game, preferably accompanied with new content), we can simply be superpowered entities with our own faction-by-faction relations. (ex: Friends with the Champions and Argent, but unfriendly to the Silver Avengers) The factions can "feel" villainous or heroic, but not obviously.

    I think Cryptic has enough creativity to pull off such an endeavor, and they wouldn't even have to make an "expansialone" like the case of CoV/CoH.

    Give them money!
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I wish i could have took over and righted every wrong about this game but with every answer being (besides no answers for years...of course) "no" "we dont have the resources" (you DID) , and of course "we'll add it to our list of 'dont give a crap".

    Sorry, but this quote reminded me of this.:tongue:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QS0q3mGPGg#t=0m41s
    That is all.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited March 2013




    It's also worth noting that Champs is doing well within its scope. We all know we're not a blockbuster like STO, but with the expectations that we're setting right now, we're looking good on our metrics.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have seen nothing to make me think Champs will close, and I'm seeing mostly positive trends.
    See, here's the thing, i understand that you are being reassuring that co wont go full on coh murder, and we appreciate that. but you have said that before, and all it say is that in our current state, no new areas, no new comics series, no new costume sets for nearly a year in the store, the game is stable. ok fine, but that just means co can survive on maintenance mode ( and alerts, 5 minute missions using existing art assets) with lock-boxes for new additions. And that's really what I think a lot of people are asking, not if this game can survive at the level it currently is because i would really hope it could, but if we will see real reinvestment in the game again.

    The lemurian invasion was nice, it was also a single street hunt, a single door mission using mostly old art assets, and a very cool final mish with new art assets that may or may not be cycled out of rotation in the future. I know former coh players can't expect development like they had in their old game, but that was basically a ssa in coh terms, and we got around one of them a month, plus 2-3 major issues a year. heck, we would have complained if that were a SSA in coh, because of the outdoor hunt.

    So yeas, co not dying is great, i have moved much of my roster over here and would not relish losing them again, and while i have been here since the start, i haven't played much due to me playing coh, so there still is new stuff to me. but one hopes you see where we are coming from and why we are at hat conclusion. we do not want to be jade dynasty,i'm a martial arts fan and that game looks like a cheap by the numbers mmo with no reason to play unlesss your computer is to weak to play a good mmo. we want to be the revenge superhero mmo that shoves it in ncsoft's eye that a superhero mmo can thrive while properly supported.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    That said, STO is doing quite well for its age, and seems to keep getting stronger.
    I never played STO, but for what its worth, it seems like it was in somewhat of a slump and is now recovering. If so, then that's a testament to investing in a game with lots of potential that's fallen on hard times.
    Superheroes may not be quite as safe an investment, but I do think investing in CO -- repairing the broken bits, giving us a Foundry, revising the Nemesis system and the end game, reviving and reincentivizing PVPing and instancing -- would pay dividends over the long term, both for the game and the company. Give CO a staff one-third the size of STO's, and they could still do some impressive things.
    Agreed.
    What worries me is that most of that stuff is on the Until Field Reports.:redface:
    Your observations are usually onpoint, so i have to admit that im curious about your vision for endgame in CO but considering that the last endgame thread got closed it may be "too soon". Feel free not to answer that question if you don't feel comfortable about it.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    These database API "intimacy issues" remind me of a side project I have going at work, and not in a good way.

    WARNING: Ramble ahead.

    Our clients have been slow to upgrade from Windows XP, so we've had some time to manage our compatibility with Windows 7 and 8, but a year from now, time's up. Windows XP will be formally un-supported in April 2014, and Microsoft will only continue to support enterprise customers on a contract basis. Some of our apps are using 3rd-party libraries that either aren't supported any more or need to be upgraded for Windows 7. (That's what I've been working on lately.)

    On top of that, one of our clients has been using a woefully-outdated version of our product because they don't want to upgrade the custom code they built around our database. (The last patch they took from us was a small Y2K update. Yes, that old.)

    When we saw how much more effort it would take to certify that ancient version of our code base on Windows 7, we had no choice. We flat-out told the client, "No, we're not upgrading code that's over a decade old. Either upgrade to our Win7-certified version or pony up to Microsoft for XP support."

    So what does that have to do with Champions Online? Opportunity cost.

    That client kept choosing their custom code over our upgrades, and they've now reached a very expensive fork in the road.

    Cryptic chose alerts, vehicles, and gamblebox events during The Great Developer Siphon. They could have chosen the Foundry, with all the asset indexing and engine upgrades that it would require. Or they could have focused on bugs and quality-of-life improvements, like those "intimacy issues". Or we could have received a new Comic Series or two.

    The Foundry's opportunity cost may come back to bite Champions the same way not upgrading our software bit that client.

    As I recall, Robobo said that the asset indexing would be the biggest timesink in Foundry support. It sounds like long, tedious work. I also get hints that, without that indexing, Champions wouldn't be compatible with new versions of Cryptic Engine anyway. Meanwhile, Neverwinter has obviously been driving new features in the engine, and it looks like Star Trek is, too.

    The Star Trek team formally announced Legacy of Romulus today. (New Romulan faction! Start KDF toons at level 1! Traits overhaul!) The UI also got some major TLC, including different color schemes and patterns themed to each faction: Blue and rounded for the Federation, red-orange triangles for Klingons, green trapezoids for the Romulans. The way they describe it, though, players will be able to choose for themselves, rather than force each toon into their faction's theme. So there's now a dynamic skinning feature for the engine's UI library. That's one more step that Champions is falling behind.

    This is starting to worry me more than anything else. Yes, there's enough cash flow to keep this gamblebox/event cycle rolling for another couple of months. When the time comes to fish or cut bait on the engine/Foundry upgrade, however, I'm afraid there won't be enough money and/or developers to make it worth Cryptic's while. Then we'll really be in Maintenance Mode until Jack finally shuts us down.

    Maybe that's the question we need to be asking. Is Cryptic ready and willing to invest in Champions Online again, or are we expected to be self-sustaining, and if we can't generate more money, then "tough cookies"?
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mensar wrote: »
    Wow.. so, here's what I see.

    People that love the game but that are dead-set on killing it by being pessimistic, incurably negative (call that redudant if you want) and feeding off each other's depressive thoughts.

    Want this game to fail? Keep up the fearmongering...

    Yes, it's fearmongering because you have no proof, you're just spreading your doubts as though they are a crisis or dire news.

    You have NOTHING to go on.

    NOTHING to go on? Good grief man, you only have to read the direct quote from PWE's Annual Report in my sig!!!

    PWE is quite literally, MMOG Locusts... and this field is almost barren. :eek:

    People are broken. - Lum the Mad
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    considering that the last endgame thread got closed it may be "too soon". Feel free not to answer that question if you don't feel comfortable about it.

    It didn't get closed because of the subject matter. It was closed because it had just become a big flame war. I have no problem with subjects reappearing, as long as people try to keep it civil.
    biffsig.jpg
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Well, my only real glimmer of hope is that the Superhero MMO niche is real.

    It may not be as established, thoroughly exploited, or as big as fantasy, but it's real and growing and perfectly profitable for the company that approaches it with the right understanding of it's unique characteristics and scale.

    Since it is real, someone will figure out how to do it right, and that will be a great day for us. I would like for that to be Champions because 1) It's a truly great IP 2) It has a good start with tons of potential already.

    But, if Perfect World decides to screw this particular pooch, which is not in their long-term interest (but then companies today are all about short-term), someone will step in and do it right eventually because the niche is real and is there for the taking. That's one of the good things about capitalism.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It didn't get closed because of the subject matter. It was closed because it had just become a big flame war. I have no problem with subjects reappearing, as long as people try to keep it civil.
    I realize that. Its just that some people take longer to cool off than others. That's what i meant by "too soon." That thread needed to be shut down.

    Being that it happened just a few days ago, i just wanted to be cautious about bringing it up again. Also, this thread already has a topic, I dont want to derail this thread, but Im also curious about Canadascotts thoughts on the subject, but It seemed like too much to ask for PM so i just phrased the question with a way out should he choose to take it.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It didn't get closed because of the subject matter. It was closed because it had just become a big flame war. I have no problem with subjects reappearing, as long as people try to keep it civil.
    I didn't realize it was a matter of you "having a problem with it", but whether it broke the rules or not.

    Thanks for the clarification.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wethree1 wrote: »
    Well, my only real glimmer of hope is that the Superhero MMO niche is real.
    Agreed. Disney is getting huge returns on their investment. I don't think there is any question that there is a market for this stuff. The question is how to do it right. MMO companies want a safe bet. When COX was doing wall, that made the industry take note, and we got CO and DCUO. Now that CO and DCUO haven't surpassed what COX was in its prime. The bean counters probably want to go back to safer waters.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    helbjorn wrote: »
    I didn't realize it was a matter of you "having a problem with it", but whether it broke the rules or not.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    For someone who lamented getting attacked in another thread just yesterday you sure waste no time going on the offensive yourself...
    ________________________________________________
    My Amazon author page
    How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
    Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Awesome stuffs

    original.gif
    ________________________________________________
    My Amazon author page
    How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
    Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    helbjorn wrote: »
    I didn't realize it was a matter of you "having a problem with it", but whether it broke the rules or not.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    This ability to glean imaginary information from plainly worded posts has to be one of the most useless superpowers to date.

    I blame the mutant population.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Now that M-Day has been undone?
Sign In or Register to comment.