Palpatine didn't win. He got thrown down a hole by his prot?g?. That's undignified.
like I said a whole new generation... for about 15yrs he was emperor of most of a galaxy :P for about 10 before that he was in charge of the republic and pulling the CIS's strings too. Big win. All empires fall history teaches us this. But for villains he had a damned fine run
Palpatine didn't win. He got thrown down a hole by his prot?g?. That's undignified.
No it's not. That's the way of the Sith. Apprentices, as their final test, have to kill their masters.
But what Kodachi is referring to is the big win Palpatine pulled at the end of Revenge of the Sith. There's no denying that that was a big win for Palpatine. The Jedi were dead/dispersed, Anakin/Darth Vader was now his chump, and the galaxy was under his iron-fisted rule.
If the Champions Universe was ruled by Dr Destroyer (seeking to avoid Godwin's Law) then breaking the law might become a necessity if only to allow normal life to function. Megalomaniacs might seek to rule but not necessarily devote the time needed or ignore people who might still be able to pay for smuggled goods.
A villainous Han would have handed them all over as soon as they got on board, having invited troops on the ship in order to make the task easier.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
like I said a whole new generation... for about 15yrs he was emperor of most of a galaxy :P for about 10 before that he was in charge of the republic and pulling the CIS's strings too. Big win. All empires fall history teaches us this. But for villains he had a damned fine run
No it's not. That's the way of the Sith. Apprentices, as their final test, have to kill their masters.
But what Kodachi is referring to is the big win Palpatine pulled at the end of Revenge of the Sith. There's no denying that that was a big win for Palpatine. The Jedi were dead/dispersed, Anakin/Darth Vader was now his chump, and the galaxy was under his iron-fisted rule.
Yeah yeah, "the circle is now complete" blahdy blahdy blah. They contrived that off of a throwaway line!
And I don't think it's a "formal" test. It's just what the master expects, because the master did the same to his.
And yes, I know he "won" at the end of episode III. It's hard to deny that eradicating the jedi and taking over the galaxy is not a win. I'm just foolin around.
Okay, I have read this thread, and I have to jump in. Forgive me, but this is a bit long.
So, here is my story on how I came to CO, my thoughts thus far, and my advice to other CoX players who are new to CO and looking for a new super-powered addiction...
To start with, I, too, am a CoX refugee (RIP Virtue server). I an attempt to fill the superhero void in my heart, I tried DCUO first. Okay..it was fun...ish... But, I don't want to be Wonder Woman's lackey or Superman's sidekick. I wanted to be a superhero in my own right, not known as the iconic hero's errand boy.
Okay...fine, I'll leave DCUO.
Hmm...Champions Online. Yeah, I've looked at it before, but never played. Sure, I'll give it a go.
*Day 1, F2P*
Okay...Not really a personal fan of the AT's that I can choose from. And only 2 character slots? Yeah, my alt-itis won't handle that. I'll subscribe before I go to bed. Give it a month, maybe I'll like CO, maybe I won't. But, I have to experience the various options available before I make up my mind.
*Day 2, Subscribed*
Freeform? Yeah, this is MUCH better.
Hmm...they don't have the type of powerset available that I had on the CoX Tank (Invulnerability/Energy Melee) that I wanted to remake. Okay, there are some things that are CLOSE to what he had...but, not close enough. Hmm...guess I'll just make a brand new version of him.
Let's see...Ego weaponry? Yeah, I guess that's similar in style to the Energy Melee that CoX had. Sure, I'll give that a shot.
Dex bonuses? Ego bonuses? Strength? Intelligence? "The Master"..."The Mountain"...Aw, crap...I have no idea. Umm...Ego, why not?
Eh, not bad. I have no idea if I am powerful or not, since I'm a lowbie and new to the game and all. But, still fun. I'll take him through the Purple Gang story, see how he feels.
I can handle this. Let's try another CoX remake (Dark/Dark Blaster this time).
Let's see...character two...
I'll try the Darkness themed powers. Skip the tutorial this time. (Sidenote: I hate the tutorial).
Get through the Purple Gang again.
Not liking Darkness. It's okay for what it is, but doesn't quite click for me. And, really, he doesn't feel at all like the Dark/Dark Blaster I had on CoX...and who I loved.
Character three...
I'll remake one of the CoX toons that I had, but could never get past level 10 (an Ice/Ice Blaster). Oh, holy crap! She ISN'T gimped like she was on CoX. I actually feel like a hero. I can actually solo missions without face-planting every 5 minutes. Rock on!
Still, I have no idea what I'm doing as far as all the stat bonuses/Superstats are concerned. I'll figure it out in time...learning curves can be brutal. But, I mastered the CoX system, I'm sure I can figure this one out.
Okay...so, the point of my rambling is this: To my fellow CoX refugees. Yes, we are sad to see Paragon City and the Rogue Isles get nuked in to oblivion. Yes, I'm going to miss Sister Psyche, Synapse, Ghost Widow, and Captain Mako. Yes, it sucks to have years of badges, accomplishments, super groups, costumes, story lines, and RP history wiped out in the blink of an eye. Yes, I'll admit, I even shed a tear when I found out that our beloved universe was set to implode like a poorly-prepared souffle.
But, despite how much we loved CoX, don't take it out on CO or the community here. The constant comparisons between the two are pointless. I figured out, quite quickly, that the characters I had on CoX won't, necessarily, translate here...and neither will the feel. Yes, they are both superhero MMO's. But, really, that is where the comparisons should stop.
I'm judging this game based on what IT has to offer me, not based on whether I like it more or less than CoX. City of Heroes/Villains is gone. That is what it is. If we constantly try to compare a new game to one we loved for so long, all we will do is find things to constantly critique, bemoan, and nitpick.
When you first joined CoX, it was a whole new world. You had to learn the universe, the mechanics, the ins-and-outs of the game. When you did, you either loved it or hated it. You stayed or you left. Do the same here. Let this game, this community, show you why you should love it or hate it. And, let that happen based on its own merits.
CoX is gone, and CO will not become "CoX version 2.0." It is a different game, with different rules, and a different feel. Like it or hate it...but, don't try to turn it in to something it's not or expect it to give you the same feel that CoX did.
So far, the CO community has been very warm and welcoming. We are refugees to their shores, seeking asylum in their house...let's not start the relationship by urinating on the carpet.
Okay...so, the point of my rambling is this: To my fellow CoX refugees. Yes, we are sad to see Paragon City and the Rogue Isles get nuked in to oblivion. Yes, I'm going to miss Sister Psyche, Synapse, Ghost Widow, and Captain Mako. Yes, it sucks to have years of badges, accomplishments, super groups, costumes, story lines, and RP history wiped out in the blink of an eye. Yes, I'll admit, I even shed a tear when I found out that our beloved universe was set to implode like a poorly-prepared souffle.
But, despite how much we loved CoX, don't take it out on CO or the community here. The constant comparisons between the two are pointless. I figured out, quite quickly, that the characters I had on CoX won't, necessarily, translate here...and neither will the feel. Yes, they are both superhero MMO's. But, really, that is where the comparisons should stop.
I'm judging this game based on what IT has to offer me, not based on whether I like it more or less than CoX. City of Heroes/Villains is gone. That is what it is. If we constantly try to compare a new game to one we loved for so long, all we will do is find things to constantly critique, bemoan, and nitpick.
When you first joined CoX, it was a whole new world. You had to learn the universe, the mechanics, the ins-and-outs of the game. When you did, you either loved it or hated it. You stayed or you left. Do the same here. Let this game, this community, show you why you should love it or hate it. And, let that happen based on its own merits.
CoX is gone, and CO will not become "CoX version 2.0." It is a different game, with different rules, and a different feel. Like it or hate it...but, don't try to turn it in to something it's not or expect it to give you the same feel that CoX did.
So far, the CO community has been very warm and welcoming. We are refugees to their shores, seeking asylum in their house...let's not start the relationship by urinating on the carpet.
So far, the CO community has been very warm and welcoming. We are refugees to their shores, seeking asylum in their house...let's not start the relationship by urinating on the carpet.
Nice post and good to get your perspective on it. The intent isnt to piss on the carpet but give various perspectives and discuss what we'd like to see, what is and isnt done right in either game, where wed like to see CO grow, etc
Side note: the system seems a lot more complicated than it actually is, and the learning curve quickly tapers off. If you want some help, the builds forum under combat and powers is great for that and explaining how everything works. Welcome aboard and best of luck!
(also, since you're Gold, you can change power colors and completely mix and match powers, so that darkness toon might just take a little creativity - like purple colored Infernal Supernatural or Force powers. My main suggestion is to not replicate the powers your character had, but rather the concept, and then test out the look of the powers and coloring in the PH training rooms to see if they work out.)
Side note: the system seems a lot more complicated than it actually is, and the learning curve quickly tapers off. If you want some help, the builds forum under combat and powers is great for that and explaining how everything works. Welcome aboard and best of luck!
(also, since you're Gold, you can change power colors and completely mix and match powers, so that darkness toon might just take a little creativity - like purple colored Infernal Supernatural or Force powers. My main suggestion is to not replicate the powers your character had, but rather the concept, and then test out the look of the powers and coloring in the PH training rooms to see if they work out.)
Thank you! :biggrin:
And, yeah, I'm sure I'll get over the learning curve quickly enough. My biggest sticking point at the moment is just trying to figure out the stat bonuses you choose at the beginning and the Superstats you pick up. Maybe because I'm not familiar, I'm always afraid that I'll pick "Super Dexterity" when I should have chosen Ego, and find out I've gimped myself somehow.
Thanks for the advice on the power customization. I'll keep that in mind. I have an infernalist in mind that I may alter to be the recreation of my CoX Dark/Dark Blaster.
And, yeah, I'm sure I'll get over the learning curve quickly enough. My biggest sticking point at the moment is just trying to figure out the stat bonuses you choose at the beginning and the Superstats you pick up. Maybe because I'm not familiar, I'm always afraid that I'll pick "Super Dexterity" when I should have chosen Ego, and find out I've gimped myself somehow.
Thanks for the advice on the power customization. I'll keep that in mind. I have an infernalist in mind that I may alter to be the recreation of my CoX Dark/Dark Blaster.
Thank you again!
A wild Dark Blaster has appeared \o/
I used to run a DB also..good times was had , and you should be able to make something along the lines rather easily in CO ^__^
On the subject of villain play. An expansion for it is not required. The costume creator and the ability to form supergroups means player villains will always be created. Just take a good hard look in Ren Cen. About a third of the duels there is hero vs villain.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
On the subject of villain play. An expansion for it is not required. The costume creator and the ability to form supergroups means player villains will always be created. Just take a good hard look in Ren Cen. About a third of the duels there is hero vs villain.
Except at the end of the day, your "villain" is running the same heroic content everyone else is.
Except at the end of the day, your "villain" is running the same heroic content everyone else is.
True but there are many lawful villains out there. Ones like J. Jonah Jameson or Lex Luthor spring to mind.
Also lets not forget Anti-Heroes like the Punisher or Venom. The game provides enough scope to create toons along the same ideas of said comic book creations.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
True but there are many lawful villains out there. Ones like J. Jonah Jameson or Lex Luthor spring to mind.
Also lets not forget Anti-Heroes like the Punisher or Venom. The game provides enough scope to create toons along the same ideas of said comic book creations.
Anti-heroes are their own breed, and "lawful" does not equate heroic.
First this is just to possibly give the developers a point of view. If it generates productive discussion, so much the better.
When I first looked at the two games they both had their appeal, and similar system requirements. So I dug a bit into both, to see which I should try.
CO had kinda lame looking graphics that were pretty obviously oriented to try and capture that comic book look and feel. While I didnt care for it it wasn't a deal breaker. Then I noticed the Nemesis system and I thought that was REALLY COOL. I also ran across the facebook game(now dead) for champions and it gave a kinda cool way to look into the setting.
CoH/V had just dropped the Going Rogue expansion at this point, and BAM that scored MASSIVE points in my book. I can play villains?!! I can play dark brooding anti-heroes?!! I can make in game choices that determine how my character will evolve?!!!?!! ZOMG YES!!!!! Toss in graphics that were better than CO's and it was a lock down win for me.
So I bought Going Rogue, and dove in head first. My computer is an antique dinosaur from around 2000 but beats the "official" minimum system requirements for both games. I read the online comics for CoH/V and dug into both games a bit more and discovered the mutual ancestry. I noticed that CO had a free demo, so I figured Id give it a go... download, install, patch, start loading and crash.... -.- repeat 3 more times in case something was corrupted or whatever, reboot the system etc.
By this point Id cleared Praetoria on my main character, had 3 alts levelling and was beginning to explore the Rogue Isles. What do I see? In game user created missions?! The ability to make my own?! Aww hell yeah! I began screwing with it and realizing its potential, never looked back at CO again.
After several months of obsessive play I kinda burned out on CoH/V but Id keep coming back to it. Eventually I did let my sub lapse and some time later OOOO FREE TO PLAY!!! This was perfect I could hop on, play obsessively for a couple weeks, then wander off for a couple months till the bug bit again.
I happened to be in an 'off' phase and rather by blind luck found out about CoH/V closing on THE LAST DAY So I logged in, enjoyed the time, levelled my last praetorian up and finished a quest chain before I got kicked off the servers.
SO I ended up back here... looking at CO again, and its f2p now as well, all good so far. No villains, no anti-heroes, no apparent plans for either... that sucks but ok, I never played heroes in CoH/V so I can go be a goody goody here... Download, install, patch, load....and crash before even getting to the menu -.- uninstall, reboot, d/l, install, patch load... crash...
Ok... tech support is usually utterly useless in games unless the issue is on their script but forums tend to be good for info. Dig in and what do I find?! http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=109259 the first page suggests that the official system requirements are utter BS and way too low to actually load OR play the game. So I ask for more info/help and get little to none, and half of what I did get translated out to "Upgrade your computer" -.- really.... if I could do that would I be asking for help with my existing system??
At this point Im very frustrated between NCsuck closing a kickass game, and the apparently falso info provided by cryptic on the minimum system requirements. Add in a sadly narrow gameplay(all heroes all the time), and the cheese graphics, and I find my desire to EVER try this game seriously waning. Even should I upgrade/buy a new computer, at this point Id be more likely to go give DCU a run since the gfx are stunning and I can play a villain.
I see CO has the potential to be everything CoH/V was, but I also see it apparently willfully refusing to live up to its potential. NCsuck's decision has given Cryptic a golden opportunity to cash in on the market. With the Loss of CoH/V there are only 3 super MMOs left, and Marvel's is just WAY off course imo(a pity too because I prefer marvel's universe to DC's). DCU allows villains but its also mired in the DC Universe(which is boon and bane for it). CO and CoH/V werent/arent stuck with decades of existing supers, history, lore, etc restricting what a new hero or villain can do or live up to. Both have their established "heavies" but the whole fictional setting was designed in such a way that those flagship characters blend well with the small fries and up and comers(ie the players). DC and Marvel have to warp their existing settings to provide something kinda similar. I really hope CO evolves into its full potential.
TL:DR
CoH/V was better for a buncha reasons, where CO seems to insist on not living up to its full potential. Right now it has a golden opportunity to evolve and step into the lead as THE supers MMO if it will but try.
CO has different graphics to CoH, not worse, bad, or lame graphics. They simply are what they are, with relative appeal much in the eye of the beholder.
When the one I played with on CoH needed help here people provided her with many helpful suggestions, and I've seen many making helpful posts regarding other issues people were having, so that varies between situations.
DCUO is a very different game from what CoH was and CO is, so it won't provide the same play experience. However, I find it provides a distinct experience that is quite enjoyable to me, and obviously several others as I always see plenty about when I'm there. It has a very interesting, and quick, weapon combat system, where weapons actually play differently one from another. On the other hand, character concept and costume customization are quite limited, and you can only have six of your powers available at once (unless you have one of the sets with one or more forms, which gives access to one or more power trays or you are using Hard Light (as in Green/Yellow Lantern) which have a unique way of getting around the six power limit.
The Marvel game isn't off course, just not on the course you may have preferred. Perhaps if the action MMO is a success, a MMORPG may eventually come out. Right now, though, they are focusing on a different part of the gaming market.
CO definitely could be based on decades of existing content as it is related to the long running paper and pencil RPG Champions, which has an extensively developed lore. Not being all that familiar with that lore myself, I don't know how well or much CO sticks to it.
I don't see CO evolving in any major way, due to the limit of available staff. If anything, they will make minor additions that build on what they already have. In particular, I don't see them trying to add a whole villain side to the game. That project would be likely too much for them to do in anything near a timely fashion, and all the long-term players, who are currently on the only side, the hero side, would have virtually nothing to look forward to during that period. That's not going to happen, in my view.
We certainly lost some things from CoX. We also gained a lot of things, the ability of subscribers (or non-subscribers that purchase it) to freeform is not the only gain, but that by itself is huge. I am quite happy with the ability to make characters here that I could never come close to in CoX, that match more closely my vision of them.
Perhaps some of the small features of CoX could make it into CO over time, and there is nothing wrong with suggesting them. On the other hand, we are still very much newcomers to what has been home to many for several years. Any changes made will have to be such that they don't please their newly arrived residents at the cost of displeasing their long-term residents, and don't sideline existing development plans. When making suggestions, ex-CoX players will have to keep that in mind.
The focus of CO has always been purely on the hero side, so their vision of the future of the game may not line up with that of some ex-CoX players. That doesn't mean they won't reach a golden level of achievement, but it may just not be the gold some ex-CoX players are hoping for.
The bottom line of it all, is that "better" is a matter of taste. Many dislike the favourite of another, and can't understand the dislike the other has for their favourite. Essentially, there is no better in an absolute sense, just games we personally like better, each of us having our own collection of reasons for that preference.
Okay, I have read this thread, and I have to jump in. Forgive me, but this is a bit long.
So, here is my story on how I came to CO, my thoughts thus far, and my advice to other CoX players who are new to CO and looking for a new super-powered addiction...
To start with, I, too, am a CoX refugee (RIP Virtue server). I an attempt to fill the superhero void in my heart, I tried DCUO first. Okay..it was fun...ish... But, I don't want to be Wonder Woman's lackey or Superman's sidekick. I wanted to be a superhero in my own right, not known as the iconic hero's errand boy.
Okay...fine, I'll leave DCUO.
Hmm...Champions Online. Yeah, I've looked at it before, but never played. Sure, I'll give it a go.
*Day 1, F2P*
Okay...Not really a personal fan of the AT's that I can choose from. And only 2 character slots? Yeah, my alt-itis won't handle that. I'll subscribe before I go to bed. Give it a month, maybe I'll like CO, maybe I won't. But, I have to experience the various options available before I make up my mind.
*Day 2, Subscribed*
Freeform? Yeah, this is MUCH better.
Hmm...they don't have the type of powerset available that I had on the CoX Tank (Invulnerability/Energy Melee) that I wanted to remake. Okay, there are some things that are CLOSE to what he had...but, not close enough. Hmm...guess I'll just make a brand new version of him.
Let's see...Ego weaponry? Yeah, I guess that's similar in style to the Energy Melee that CoX had. Sure, I'll give that a shot.
Dex bonuses? Ego bonuses? Strength? Intelligence? "The Master"..."The Mountain"...Aw, crap...I have no idea. Umm...Ego, why not?
Eh, not bad. I have no idea if I am powerful or not, since I'm a lowbie and new to the game and all. But, still fun. I'll take him through the Purple Gang story, see how he feels.
I can handle this. Let's try another CoX remake (Dark/Dark Blaster this time).
Let's see...character two...
I'll try the Darkness themed powers. Skip the tutorial this time. (Sidenote: I hate the tutorial).
Get through the Purple Gang again.
Not liking Darkness. It's okay for what it is, but doesn't quite click for me. And, really, he doesn't feel at all like the Dark/Dark Blaster I had on CoX...and who I loved.
Character three...
I'll remake one of the CoX toons that I had, but could never get past level 10 (an Ice/Ice Blaster). Oh, holy crap! She ISN'T gimped like she was on CoX. I actually feel like a hero. I can actually solo missions without face-planting every 5 minutes. Rock on!
Still, I have no idea what I'm doing as far as all the stat bonuses/Superstats are concerned. I'll figure it out in time...learning curves can be brutal. But, I mastered the CoX system, I'm sure I can figure this one out.
Okay...so, the point of my rambling is this: To my fellow CoX refugees. Yes, we are sad to see Paragon City and the Rogue Isles get nuked in to oblivion. Yes, I'm going to miss Sister Psyche, Synapse, Ghost Widow, and Captain Mako. Yes, it sucks to have years of badges, accomplishments, super groups, costumes, story lines, and RP history wiped out in the blink of an eye. Yes, I'll admit, I even shed a tear when I found out that our beloved universe was set to implode like a poorly-prepared souffle.
But, despite how much we loved CoX, don't take it out on CO or the community here. The constant comparisons between the two are pointless. I figured out, quite quickly, that the characters I had on CoX won't, necessarily, translate here...and neither will the feel. Yes, they are both superhero MMO's. But, really, that is where the comparisons should stop.
I'm judging this game based on what IT has to offer me, not based on whether I like it more or less than CoX. City of Heroes/Villains is gone. That is what it is. If we constantly try to compare a new game to one we loved for so long, all we will do is find things to constantly critique, bemoan, and nitpick.
When you first joined CoX, it was a whole new world. You had to learn the universe, the mechanics, the ins-and-outs of the game. When you did, you either loved it or hated it. You stayed or you left. Do the same here. Let this game, this community, show you why you should love it or hate it. And, let that happen based on its own merits.
CoX is gone, and CO will not become "CoX version 2.0." It is a different game, with different rules, and a different feel. Like it or hate it...but, don't try to turn it in to something it's not or expect it to give you the same feel that CoX did.
So far, the CO community has been very warm and welcoming. We are refugees to their shores, seeking asylum in their house...let's not start the relationship by urinating on the carpet.
Very well said.
....and don't hesitate to peruse the combat and powers sub forum. A lot of good advice dispensed there. The community does a very good job of answering questions and offering build advice. This is not one of those games where asking for advice will result in being flamed as a, "noob."
I get tired of saving the world :P I want to blow it the hell up sometimes or conquer it and crush the masses under my boot while enjoying the tender ministrations of my harem^.^
Ive seen nothing in game that reflects anti-heroes for CO aside from personal choice to RP in game... Thats not my gig, if I wanna do RP Ill go hunt down a decent table top group
Id love to give this game more of a try, but like I said in the orig post, it refuses to load. Esp after all this praise for the combat system Id REALLY like to give that a go
What are your system specs anyway.
Cause in all honesty something isn't matching up here.
Im running a quad i7 with 8gigs ram and 4gigs vram with an Nvidia chipset and no overclocking can run this game on full max settings with minimal lag. Sure the fram rate gets choppy during a stupid MegaDestroid event. But aside from that Graphically between this game and CO, CO was leagues and leaaaaaaaaaagues ahead of CoH. Like....when I ran CoH on max settings, it looked like a playstation 2 game, no joke. Most games that I run on my current rig for graphics look ps3 or higher.
My thing is this, If your rig can't even run league of legends or World of ******** without lagging...its time for an upgrade. Sorry but. Take it from me, I was on an old 2005 Dell desktop with a 60 somethin odd gig harddrive and 200 or so RAM, it was terrible. But if you "only meet minimum" system requirements, don't expect the game to load.
You wanna at least have 1gig Video card, and 4gigs RAM.
Cause in all honesty something isn't matching up here.
Im running a quad i7 with 8gigs ram and 4gigs vram with an Nvidia chipset and no overclocking can run this game on full max settings with minimal lag. Sure the fram rate gets choppy during a stupid MegaDestroid event. But aside from that Graphically between this game and CO, CO was leagues and leaaaaaaaaaagues ahead of CoH. Like....when I ran CoH on max settings, it looked like a playstation 2 game, no joke. Most games that I run on my current rig for graphics look ps3 or higher.
My thing is this, If your rig can't even run league of legends or World of ******** without lagging...its time for an upgrade. Sorry but. Take it from me, I was on an old 2005 Dell desktop with a 60 somethin odd gig harddrive and 200 or so RAM, it was terrible. But if you "only meet minimum" system requirements, don't expect the game to load.
You wanna at least have 1gig Video card, and 4gigs RAM.
I agree with this whole post. I can get Champions Online to run perfectly on a 4 year old Toshiba notebook XD
CO can run on almost anything.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Actually, if you meet minimum system requirements, a game should load. That's kind of the definition of the phrase. Doesn't mean it should be pretty or play well, but at least it should load.
But, also "maxed out" seems to be subjective. I'm "maxed out" on my old ATI card, but there are several features I am not able to control. So what's maxed for one might not be for another. The system seems to only give you what your hardware can handle (several of the settings the only option is "low" so I suspect there are other settings, I just don't get to see them).
4 gigs of RAM and 1 gig of vRAM? I'm playing with 3g/256m and having no trouble at all. I just don't get all the bells and whistles.
I didn't personally see anything in CoH/V that would even remotely qualify this statement. Lower poly count, lower quality effects, lower quality textures in most of the art I saw, odd animations. Frankly, CoH/V was hard to look at it which is one reason why I played so little of it I find it easier to just say I didn't play it (with the other reason being the gameplay being dull both when I played it at the low levels I experienced and when I watched other people play it at max level).
If I could just dash out the door and upgr my machine would I be trying to get it to load CO on a dinosaur?? And yes a game should load on min system requirements... thats what those are there for. I can play WoW just fine and did for some time, I wouldnt disease my computer with LoL tho so dont know about that one.
@knightfalz I really hope for CO's sake you are wrong and they get their Devs back and this game can evolve... regardless of anyone's love/hate/etc for the game, if it becomes largely static it will die. As for the graphics I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because what I see in CO's trailer videos doesnt look as good as CoH/V to me(please note the conditional and not start a flame fest).
Now... This is from the SaveCOH facebook group again. Thought Id post it here to show you all 1)that people ARE indeed trying CO and trying to like it, and 2)That CO is getting some love
The game ( CO ) went well for me this weekend. Having always been a Brute fan I chose the CO analog and got a standard tights and cape thing going. I got to 11th level doing the equivalent of quick door missions. Then I stepped into a 5 hour plotline. (It is prob a one hour TF to a CO vet lol) where I had to save an alternate universe. It was epic, and I had to keep rethinking my stategies in the boss battles. I prevailed. Barely. Having a ton of fun.
one question on graphics I would like to ask the community at large... are most of the opinions from before ultra mode that came out with Going Rogue? Just a minor curiosity I have.
I didn't personally see anything in CoH/V that would even remotely qualify this statement. Lower poly count, lower quality effects, lower quality textures in most of the art I saw, odd animations. Frankly, CoH/V was hard to look at it which is one reason why I played so little of it I find it easier to just say I didn't play it (with the other reason being the gameplay being dull both when I played it at the low levels I experienced and when I watched other people play it at max level).
Most people that I know tend to attribute more detail as better quality. The more intricate the graphics textures and whatnot, the more it appeals to them. It's part of the reason people think tights costumes look straight-up lame, because they don't have zippers and buckles and armor pads every three square inches of the costume.
City had very intricately designed textures on their costumes, whereas Champs relies heavily on normal mapping (creating texture using light sources, not drawn pixels).
I can see where the City players are coming from, having been there for years and all, and when they say "City's graphics were better," they're expressing their opinion (whether they know they are or not). There's no contest that in technical terms, Champs' graphics are better, but if you're not into stylized graphics, they ain't gonna float your boat.
one question on graphics I would like to ask the community at large... are most of the opinions from before ultra mode that came out with Going Rogue? Just a minor curiosity I have.
To me, more shaders, better lighting, reflective surfaces, stuff like that aren't going to change my opinion very much. (Also, you realize that Champions already has all this stuff, right? Not sure how layering on more effects onto that old engine would equate to its graphics being better than Champs'.)
All Ultra Mode really did was bring the game's rendering up to modern standards. It was playing catch-up, graphically. It's really nothing to be impressed about unless you've been used to the previous graphics for years before.
For City to graphically get a "wow" response from me, they'd have to tweak the proportions of the characters, not making them look so stiff, up the polycount on their models a little bit (razor-sharp chins, no thanks!), have more than two color options for costumes... The settings were all pretty dull from what I remember. Nothing too bright and colorful. They'd need more detail in some of the older costumes (I'm not saying put detail where it doesn't belong, but, lots of costumes (tights) just kinda seemed painted onto the characters' skin. And finally, the graphics look generic to me; Stylized graphics always impress me more (one of my favorites being the Borderlands series).
I don't know, the graphics weren't terrible, but to me, the character models in Champs just have a greater appeal (and this was something that grabbed me from the first screenshot I saw of Champions, after having played City for several months).
As a disclaimer I want to say that I don't think Champions' graphics are perfect, but they're more in style with my liking. I also love the animations in Champions, whereas in City, there were only a couple powers that really stood out and made me go "Wow, that looks cool!"
Largely, it's all a matter of taste and preference.
Edit - after watching those videos, one thing that I do find impressive is the real-time reflective surfaces. Definitely looks cool, but a feature I don't imagine is very useful unless you're taking pretty screenshots. Cool nonetheless.
one question on graphics I would like to ask the community at large... are most of the opinions from before ultra mode that came out with Going Rogue? Just a minor curiosity I have.
I think it's safe to say that no, it's not. It's too late now, but taking a look at Atlas Park and comparing it to the newer zones, even ULTRA AP looks like ****. I actually have pictures at home, I'll post them later. Do the new zones look good? Effin A they do. But I'm given to understand most people didn't really spend any time outside the MA building in AP anyway. That assumption aside, however, it doesn't change the facts that the whole of CoX did not look like this wonderful... thing, or whatever. Only the newer small chunks that were added recently.
And like smack said, people seem to think "moar stuffz!!" is "better graphics" when it's just more stuffs. There were some amazing costumes in CoX, without a doubt, and some of the CO stuff could use a little more detail, but technical quality is a different argument, and you can plainly see the difference if the goal is to make a stuff-laden toon. A PA toon here will look much better then the best PosiClone.
And it doesn't even have to get that crazy... Old Pi and New Pi can show the big differences in something as simple as blue on black.
That picture of Old Pi was during the CoX shut down.
Meanwhile my overly 90s tribute character demonstrates a larger amount of details, like fingers.
Also visible? Sinewy muscle, reflective boots, etched sword, reflective belt buckle, textured belt and arm tubes, transparent glasses, detailed guns, and pouches.
I didn't personally see anything in CoH/V that would even remotely qualify this statement. Lower poly count, lower quality effects, lower quality textures in most of the art I saw, odd animations. Frankly, CoH/V was hard to look at it which is one reason why I played so little of it I find it easier to just say I didn't play it (with the other reason being the gameplay being dull both when I played it at the low levels I experienced and when I watched other people play it at max level).
Whereas when I was beta testing CO and my wife was playing CoH on her PC right next to me, my eyes kept getting drawn back to CoH. Graphical tastes vary.
Note before I make a couple of criticisms below that I am enjoying CO right now. But noting impressions -- constructively -- is okay and sometimes useful to the devs.
The cartoony style of CO (it's not major comic book style) was a turn-off to me. I like faces to look like faces. I like detailing, even if it means sacrificing animated faces. Since beta, CO enhanced the sliders dramatically, so that helps a LOT. But I still prefer more realistic faces that the semi-caricatured ones in CO.
CoH overplayed the "eye candy" part of their female characters and their running/walking animations, but CO almost went the extreme opposite. Idle animations and proportions seem okay (after playing with sliders), but when female characters in CO go into the standard jogging animation, they get this bump across their backs (not exactly hunchbacked, but kind of warped) and the body movement is unnatural. It almost seems to draw their shoulders together a little and they become kind of dowdy-looking.
I'd love it if the animations could fall somewhere between CoH and CO in this case.
That said, I LOVE the multi-color options for the costumes and the variety of pattern options available for tights in CO. I also really like my moonbase . I like quite a bit of the combat, truly enjoy a number of the travel powers (my daughter is LOVING her rainbow flight), and like the range of storytelling -- just wish there was more of it.
Some of the main things in CO that could be improved (from what I have seen in two months of play, not counting beta testing because the game has matured since then). :
1. Fix the female jogging (standard movement) animation to remove the back/shoulder bump and make it look a little more natural.
2. Storyline/mission content needs to be added. One thing I enjoyed about CoH and still enjoy with LOTRO is that there are multiple leveling paths. I can level several characters concurrently and have variations between missions/regions, etc. There is definitely a lot of overlap, but there is also a lot of variety mixed in. Whether additional story content is added via dev content designers or by adding a Foundry to CO, such content is important.
3. Add more free character slots for subscribers, especially since this is a game that encourages alting from a costume/power selection perspective. Eight is far too few when compared to similar games (in CoH I had eleven servers with eight slots each initially, advanced to twelve each later; LOTRO launched with multiple servers with five slots each, up to nine eventually). Character slots in CO are also more expensive than those games (I will buy some when they are on sale).
4. Just a minor personal preference: Let us toggle off the full body bleed FX. It looks silly, unnatural, and grotesque. Some don't mind it, some do.
I do believe that some people are "misusing" the phrase "better graphics".
Like I said...I know that CO has better graphics overall than CoH.
However, I would take the look of Atlas Park/Steel Canyon/Talos/Peregrine Island over Millennium City every single time. (and this is without Ultra settings)
For me...it's the style.
Give me a game with CO character models, animations, and mechanics...put it into the world of CoH...and that would be my dream superhero game.
I do believe that some people are "misusing" the phrase "better graphics".
Like I said...I know that CO has better graphics overall than CoH.
However, I would take the look of Atlas Park/Steel Canyon/Talos/Peregrine Island over Millennium City every single time. (and this is without Ultra settings)
For me...it's the style.
Give me a game with CO character models, animations, and mechanics...put it into the world of CoH...and that would be my dream superhero game.
Agreed. Ideally CO would be everything CO is (minus alerts), plus the CoX world/lore/missions.
That is the perfect game.
edit: and CoX's style. Or not, as long as it's just a little less cartoony than we have now.
[...]
Note before I make a couple of criticisms below that I am enjoying CO right now. But noting impressions -- constructively -- is okay and sometimes useful to the devs. [...]
sad face.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
1. Fix the female jogging (standard movement) animation to remove the back/shoulder bump and make it look a little more natural.
Ugh. Yes. Females at least need the "heroic" running of their male counterparts. I always take a non-ground travel power for females, except for Athletics and Mach Speed, because their standard run animation is plain bad.
3. Add more free character slots for subscribers, especially since this is a game that encourages alting from a costume/power selection perspective. Eight is far too few when compared to similar games (in CoH I had eleven servers with eight slots each initially, advanced to twelve each later; LOTRO launched with multiple servers with five slots each, up to nine eventually). Character slots in CO are also more expensive than those games (I will buy some when they are on sale).
I could get behind this. Four or five free slots wouldn't be so bad.
However, I would take the look of Atlas Park/Steel Canyon/Talos/Peregrine Island over Millennium City every single time. (and this is without Ultra settings)
One of my favorite places in Champs is the area north of Renaissance Center. I just love the look of that place.
I was subbed to CoH for a hair over 5 years; looking back, about half of that was largely because I liked playing with IOs, builds, the market, and Incarnate slots. At the tail end of I9's closed beta, I traded a post or two with Castle about how I couldn't see myself getting involved with lewt.
When I stand back and try to divorce myself from my antipathy towards Cryptic's management (I think it sometimes clouds my judgement), I think Cryptic erred in not giving us multiple, quality systems that let us entertain ourselves outside of combat.
Content, for me, doesn't always mean "more missions".
I think CoH sometimes gave us, the players, what we wanted ... and sometimes gave us things we didn't even know we wanted.
I think CO has cycled through devs (seriously, is anyone from release still actively working on the game?) so fast that no one really gets a good feel for the game, its players, and their collective psyche. And the game suffers for it.
Here's hoping the new year sees some positive changes. A decent place to start, IME, would be to have some substantive dialogue with someone who works on the game. Don't get me wrong, patch notes are great (and demonstrate that someone's propagating bug fixes from other games) ... but ... damn. I miss Tumerboy even if most of his posts were tangential to the game.
Whereas when I was beta testing CO and my wife was playing CoH on her PC right next to me, my eyes kept getting drawn back to CoH. Graphical tastes vary.
That's fine. When I talk graphics I talk technical merits not personal preferences which is why everything I mentioned was technical with only a small blurb that I found it hard to look at it (mainly due to the animations, same problem I have currently with The Secret World). On the technical level, no, CoX was better than CO. Just less of everything with a different art style as to be expected from a game running an older engine.
To me, more shaders, better lighting, reflective surfaces, stuff like that aren't going to change my opinion very much. (Also, you realize that Champions already has all this stuff, right? Not sure how layering on more effects onto that old engine would equate to its graphics being better than Champs'.)
All Ultra Mode really did was bring the game's rendering up to modern standards. It was playing catch-up, graphically. It's really nothing to be impressed about unless you've been used to the previous graphics for years before.
For City to graphically get a "wow" response from me, they'd have to tweak the proportions of the characters, not making them look so stiff, up the polycount on their models a little bit (razor-sharp chins, no thanks!), have more than two color options for costumes... The settings were all pretty dull from what I remember. Nothing too bright and colorful. They'd need more detail in some of the older costumes (I'm not saying put detail where it doesn't belong, but, lots of costumes (tights) just kinda seemed painted onto the characters' skin. And finally, the graphics look generic to me; Stylized graphics always impress me more (one of my favorites being the Borderlands series).
I don't know, the graphics weren't terrible, but to me, the character models in Champs just have a greater appeal (and this was something that grabbed me from the first screenshot I saw of Champions, after having played City for several months).
As a disclaimer I want to say that I don't think Champions' graphics are perfect, but they're more in style with my liking. I also love the animations in Champions, whereas in City, there were only a couple powers that really stood out and made me go "Wow, that looks cool!"
Largely, it's all a matter of taste and preference.
Edit - after watching those videos, one thing that I do find impressive is the real-time reflective surfaces. Definitely looks cool, but a feature I don't imagine is very useful unless you're taking pretty screenshots. Cool nonetheless.
I think it's safe to say that no, it's not. It's too late now, but taking a look at Atlas Park and comparing it to the newer zones, even ULTRA AP looks like ****. I actually have pictures at home, I'll post them later. Do the new zones look good? Effin A they do. But I'm given to understand most people didn't really spend any time outside the MA building in AP anyway. That assumption aside, however, it doesn't change the facts that the whole of CoX did not look like this wonderful... thing, or whatever. Only the newer small chunks that were added recently.
And like smack said, people seem to think "moar stuffz!!" is "better graphics" when it's just more stuffs. There were some amazing costumes in CoX, without a doubt, and some of the CO stuff could use a little more detail, but technical quality is a different argument, and you can plainly see the difference if the goal is to make a stuff-laden toon. A PA toon here will look much better then the best PosiClone.
And it doesn't even have to get that crazy... Old Pi and New Pi can show the big differences in something as simple as blue on black.
That picture of Old Pi was during the CoX shut down.
Meanwhile my overly 90s tribute character demonstrates a larger amount of details, like fingers.
Also visible? Sinewy muscle, reflective boots, etched sword, reflective belt buckle, textured belt and arm tubes, transparent glasses, detailed guns, and pouches.
People say "better graphics" but what they mean is "graphics I prefer."
Y'know, when CoH: Freedom came out, Atlas Park did get a graphical revamp beyond Ultra Mode. It looked positively gorgeous (and that annoying block of a building that you had to run/fly around was replaced with something more architecturally sensible). Not to mention that the newer zones were looking really, really good.
Concerning character animations, I have to say that the newer animations in CoH (and some of the old even) are a lot better than the ones in CO. The CO animations, actually, are a little jerky. They don't flow together very well.
That said, though, the graphics in CO are definitely superior, it's just unfortunate that they chose a style that didn't take an advantage of those graphics.
Concerning character animations, I have to say that the newer animations in CoH (and some of the old even) are a lot better than the ones in CO. The CO animations, actually, are a little jerky. They don't flow together very well.
Again, another matter of taste. To me, lots of the Champions animations have a style and flair that I didn't find in City.
Except the walking animations. Especially for females.
If you don't use the sexy animation, get ready to look like you're trying to hold a tennis ball between your buttcheeks when you walk down the road.
Yeah, I didn't say I liked ALL the animations. :P Most though, yes. Even the simple things, like the animations for strafing while charging an attack... looks awesome.
Except the walking animations. Especially for females.
If you don't use the sexy animation, get ready to look like you're trying to hold a tennis ball between your buttcheeks when you walk down the road.
+1
I'm with you. I don't like the walk animation in CO. Apart from the fact that my character looks like he/she is powerwalking the mall with the speed at which they walk, it just seems so stiff and unnatural.
I agree CO's art direction was terrible. Most bad guys look like Scooby Doo rejects.
And not just the bad guys. Most good guys running around too. Sure, they're shiny, well defined and colored good and bad guys....but they look.....well, ICK. Ditto the game world itself. It's pretty, but it looks like an Escher painting.
It's rapidly becoming my ONLY gripe about the game, however. I'm learning to live with the bugs(who doesn't ^_^)and the gameplay -is- very fast and action-y, which lends to quicker leveling, fun game play, and a host of other things, there's a TON of "easter egg" references to be found, some of which actually get a snerk outta me most times....yes. It's a fun game. The community is welcoming, despite the usual crowd of trolls(but then what game DOESN'T have those).
Bottom line? Yeah, I like the game. No, I'm not going to compare it to CoX any more. While both games deal with the same genre, they're separate things. Totally different with similar features.
I'm with you. I don't like the walk animation in CO. Apart from the fact that my character looks like he/she is powerwalking the mall with the speed at which they walk, it just seems so stiff and unnatural.
It reminds me of a glitch in Secret World where when activating sprint it fails to load the sprint animation, so you start running like a Benny Hill video.
I think part of the perception of CO's animations being "jerky" has to do with what the animations & powers system has to cope with. In CoX, all powers always played out their full animation, whereas in CO most power have different maintain or charge times. In CoX, if you were held in the middle of a power animation, said power would complete *then* you would be held. In CO, you can be knocked out of a power animation right in the middle, so transitions can be jarring.
Another issue w/ the graphics is that, due to its age, many CoX players had older machines and had to play CO w/ lighting set to low. Since Co relies so heavily upon texture mapping and lighting, shutting these off makes the game look flat and very lacking in detail. CoX relied on more detailed, though flat, textures and patterns applied to lower polygon-count models. Especially with faces, CoX simply had a selection of premade ones, and that's what you went with. Unless you specifically go into the CO face slider menu and play around with the settings, you'll have a very generic look. Of course, CO character actually blink, can open their mouths, and let's not forget fingers and the ability to make different parts glow!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Personally, I just attribute the jerky animations to the extremely rapid pace you shoot off powers in this game. When you activate an ability, it's not .5 seconds before you're firing something else. Again and again. And since the system tries to return your arms to the resting position between each power, it's really jarring to see your arms jerking about like they're having some sort of fitz.
Comparing the graphics seems silly to me, but that may be because my computer struggled with CoH at even its lowest settings, and it's struggling even more with CO at its lowest settings. I don't know how smooth the animations are here, because I only see every other frame or so (if I'm lucky; some days I only see one in five, and I don't know what causes the difference).
What feels different from a gameplay perspective is that CoH was very much about how survivable you could make your character, while CO seems based around how much DPS you can dish out. That's why Blasters (all offense, no defense) always struggled in CoH while in CO "blaster" seems to be the best build for all characters.
I'm enjoying myself a lot in CO, but I don't feel like it has the sheer variety of character play styles and roles (despite the "Role" system) that CoH had. Everyone is basically either a Blaster or a Scrapper, and my most effective CO characters so far are ones that embrace the DPS and entirely ignore defensive and support powers.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
Comments
dare ya to claim palpatine was not a villain
Palpatine didn't win. He got thrown down a hole by his prot?g?. That's undignified.
No it's not. That's the way of the Sith. Apprentices, as their final test, have to kill their masters.
But what Kodachi is referring to is the big win Palpatine pulled at the end of Revenge of the Sith. There's no denying that that was a big win for Palpatine. The Jedi were dead/dispersed, Anakin/Darth Vader was now his chump, and the galaxy was under his iron-fisted rule.
And concerning Luke and the Death Star:
Where were you when the Death Star fell?
I tend to agree.
If the Champions Universe was ruled by Dr Destroyer (seeking to avoid Godwin's Law) then breaking the law might become a necessity if only to allow normal life to function. Megalomaniacs might seek to rule but not necessarily devote the time needed or ignore people who might still be able to pay for smuggled goods.
A villainous Han would have handed them all over as soon as they got on board, having invited troops on the ship in order to make the task easier.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
But, was he truly happy? :P
Yeah yeah, "the circle is now complete" blahdy blahdy blah. They contrived that off of a throwaway line!
And I don't think it's a "formal" test. It's just what the master expects, because the master did the same to his.
And yes, I know he "won" at the end of episode III. It's hard to deny that eradicating the jedi and taking over the galaxy is not a win. I'm just foolin around.
So, here is my story on how I came to CO, my thoughts thus far, and my advice to other CoX players who are new to CO and looking for a new super-powered addiction...
To start with, I, too, am a CoX refugee (RIP Virtue server). I an attempt to fill the superhero void in my heart, I tried DCUO first. Okay..it was fun...ish... But, I don't want to be Wonder Woman's lackey or Superman's sidekick. I wanted to be a superhero in my own right, not known as the iconic hero's errand boy.
Okay...fine, I'll leave DCUO.
Hmm...Champions Online. Yeah, I've looked at it before, but never played. Sure, I'll give it a go.
*Day 1, F2P*
Okay...Not really a personal fan of the AT's that I can choose from. And only 2 character slots? Yeah, my alt-itis won't handle that. I'll subscribe before I go to bed. Give it a month, maybe I'll like CO, maybe I won't. But, I have to experience the various options available before I make up my mind.
*Day 2, Subscribed*
Freeform? Yeah, this is MUCH better.
Hmm...they don't have the type of powerset available that I had on the CoX Tank (Invulnerability/Energy Melee) that I wanted to remake. Okay, there are some things that are CLOSE to what he had...but, not close enough. Hmm...guess I'll just make a brand new version of him.
Let's see...Ego weaponry? Yeah, I guess that's similar in style to the Energy Melee that CoX had. Sure, I'll give that a shot.
Dex bonuses? Ego bonuses? Strength? Intelligence? "The Master"..."The Mountain"...Aw, crap...I have no idea. Umm...Ego, why not?
Eh, not bad. I have no idea if I am powerful or not, since I'm a lowbie and new to the game and all. But, still fun. I'll take him through the Purple Gang story, see how he feels.
I can handle this. Let's try another CoX remake (Dark/Dark Blaster this time).
Let's see...character two...
I'll try the Darkness themed powers. Skip the tutorial this time. (Sidenote: I hate the tutorial).
Get through the Purple Gang again.
Not liking Darkness. It's okay for what it is, but doesn't quite click for me. And, really, he doesn't feel at all like the Dark/Dark Blaster I had on CoX...and who I loved.
Character three...
I'll remake one of the CoX toons that I had, but could never get past level 10 (an Ice/Ice Blaster). Oh, holy crap! She ISN'T gimped like she was on CoX. I actually feel like a hero. I can actually solo missions without face-planting every 5 minutes. Rock on!
Still, I have no idea what I'm doing as far as all the stat bonuses/Superstats are concerned. I'll figure it out in time...learning curves can be brutal. But, I mastered the CoX system, I'm sure I can figure this one out.
Okay...so, the point of my rambling is this: To my fellow CoX refugees. Yes, we are sad to see Paragon City and the Rogue Isles get nuked in to oblivion. Yes, I'm going to miss Sister Psyche, Synapse, Ghost Widow, and Captain Mako. Yes, it sucks to have years of badges, accomplishments, super groups, costumes, story lines, and RP history wiped out in the blink of an eye. Yes, I'll admit, I even shed a tear when I found out that our beloved universe was set to implode like a poorly-prepared souffle.
But, despite how much we loved CoX, don't take it out on CO or the community here. The constant comparisons between the two are pointless. I figured out, quite quickly, that the characters I had on CoX won't, necessarily, translate here...and neither will the feel. Yes, they are both superhero MMO's. But, really, that is where the comparisons should stop.
I'm judging this game based on what IT has to offer me, not based on whether I like it more or less than CoX. City of Heroes/Villains is gone. That is what it is. If we constantly try to compare a new game to one we loved for so long, all we will do is find things to constantly critique, bemoan, and nitpick.
When you first joined CoX, it was a whole new world. You had to learn the universe, the mechanics, the ins-and-outs of the game. When you did, you either loved it or hated it. You stayed or you left. Do the same here. Let this game, this community, show you why you should love it or hate it. And, let that happen based on its own merits.
CoX is gone, and CO will not become "CoX version 2.0." It is a different game, with different rules, and a different feel. Like it or hate it...but, don't try to turn it in to something it's not or expect it to give you the same feel that CoX did.
So far, the CO community has been very warm and welcoming. We are refugees to their shores, seeking asylum in their house...let's not start the relationship by urinating on the carpet.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
*sniffle....sniffle*...
I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE!:biggrin:
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Nice post and good to get your perspective on it. The intent isnt to piss on the carpet but give various perspectives and discuss what we'd like to see, what is and isnt done right in either game, where wed like to see CO grow, etc
Woooooow.... that's so old even I remember it.... That's like, launch old.
I
Side note: the system seems a lot more complicated than it actually is, and the learning curve quickly tapers off. If you want some help, the builds forum under combat and powers is great for that and explaining how everything works. Welcome aboard and best of luck!
(also, since you're Gold, you can change power colors and completely mix and match powers, so that darkness toon might just take a little creativity - like purple colored Infernal Supernatural or Force powers. My main suggestion is to not replicate the powers your character had, but rather the concept, and then test out the look of the powers and coloring in the PH training rooms to see if they work out.)
Thank you! :biggrin:
And, yeah, I'm sure I'll get over the learning curve quickly enough. My biggest sticking point at the moment is just trying to figure out the stat bonuses you choose at the beginning and the Superstats you pick up. Maybe because I'm not familiar, I'm always afraid that I'll pick "Super Dexterity" when I should have chosen Ego, and find out I've gimped myself somehow.
Thanks for the advice on the power customization. I'll keep that in mind. I have an infernalist in mind that I may alter to be the recreation of my CoX Dark/Dark Blaster.
Thank you again!
A wild Dark Blaster has appeared \o/
I used to run a DB also..good times was had , and you should be able to make something along the lines rather easily in CO ^__^
On the subject of villain play. An expansion for it is not required. The costume creator and the ability to form supergroups means player villains will always be created. Just take a good hard look in Ren Cen. About a third of the duels there is hero vs villain.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Except at the end of the day, your "villain" is running the same heroic content everyone else is.
True but there are many lawful villains out there. Ones like J. Jonah Jameson or Lex Luthor spring to mind.
Also lets not forget Anti-Heroes like the Punisher or Venom. The game provides enough scope to create toons along the same ideas of said comic book creations.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Anti-heroes are their own breed, and "lawful" does not equate heroic.
And theres my point just cause Nepht might stop Viper it doesn't mean she isn't up to something >_>
Muffins have been disappearing all over Millennium City the police are at a loss.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
CO has different graphics to CoH, not worse, bad, or lame graphics. They simply are what they are, with relative appeal much in the eye of the beholder.
When the one I played with on CoH needed help here people provided her with many helpful suggestions, and I've seen many making helpful posts regarding other issues people were having, so that varies between situations.
DCUO is a very different game from what CoH was and CO is, so it won't provide the same play experience. However, I find it provides a distinct experience that is quite enjoyable to me, and obviously several others as I always see plenty about when I'm there. It has a very interesting, and quick, weapon combat system, where weapons actually play differently one from another. On the other hand, character concept and costume customization are quite limited, and you can only have six of your powers available at once (unless you have one of the sets with one or more forms, which gives access to one or more power trays or you are using Hard Light (as in Green/Yellow Lantern) which have a unique way of getting around the six power limit.
The Marvel game isn't off course, just not on the course you may have preferred. Perhaps if the action MMO is a success, a MMORPG may eventually come out. Right now, though, they are focusing on a different part of the gaming market.
CO definitely could be based on decades of existing content as it is related to the long running paper and pencil RPG Champions, which has an extensively developed lore. Not being all that familiar with that lore myself, I don't know how well or much CO sticks to it.
I don't see CO evolving in any major way, due to the limit of available staff. If anything, they will make minor additions that build on what they already have. In particular, I don't see them trying to add a whole villain side to the game. That project would be likely too much for them to do in anything near a timely fashion, and all the long-term players, who are currently on the only side, the hero side, would have virtually nothing to look forward to during that period. That's not going to happen, in my view.
We certainly lost some things from CoX. We also gained a lot of things, the ability of subscribers (or non-subscribers that purchase it) to freeform is not the only gain, but that by itself is huge. I am quite happy with the ability to make characters here that I could never come close to in CoX, that match more closely my vision of them.
Perhaps some of the small features of CoX could make it into CO over time, and there is nothing wrong with suggesting them. On the other hand, we are still very much newcomers to what has been home to many for several years. Any changes made will have to be such that they don't please their newly arrived residents at the cost of displeasing their long-term residents, and don't sideline existing development plans. When making suggestions, ex-CoX players will have to keep that in mind.
The focus of CO has always been purely on the hero side, so their vision of the future of the game may not line up with that of some ex-CoX players. That doesn't mean they won't reach a golden level of achievement, but it may just not be the gold some ex-CoX players are hoping for.
The bottom line of it all, is that "better" is a matter of taste. Many dislike the favourite of another, and can't understand the dislike the other has for their favourite. Essentially, there is no better in an absolute sense, just games we personally like better, each of us having our own collection of reasons for that preference.
Very well said.
....and don't hesitate to peruse the combat and powers sub forum. A lot of good advice dispensed there. The community does a very good job of answering questions and offering build advice. This is not one of those games where asking for advice will result in being flamed as a, "noob."
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
That may be true, but I'm not even supposed to be here today!
Even if you've been here for over three years!
(Personal experience!)
A "Hear Hear" from this corner, as well. Nicely put.
What are your system specs anyway.
Cause in all honesty something isn't matching up here.
Im running a quad i7 with 8gigs ram and 4gigs vram with an Nvidia chipset and no overclocking can run this game on full max settings with minimal lag. Sure the fram rate gets choppy during a stupid MegaDestroid event. But aside from that Graphically between this game and CO, CO was leagues and leaaaaaaaaaagues ahead of CoH. Like....when I ran CoH on max settings, it looked like a playstation 2 game, no joke. Most games that I run on my current rig for graphics look ps3 or higher.
My thing is this, If your rig can't even run league of legends or World of ******** without lagging...its time for an upgrade. Sorry but. Take it from me, I was on an old 2005 Dell desktop with a 60 somethin odd gig harddrive and 200 or so RAM, it was terrible. But if you "only meet minimum" system requirements, don't expect the game to load.
You wanna at least have 1gig Video card, and 4gigs RAM.
I agree with this whole post. I can get Champions Online to run perfectly on a 4 year old Toshiba notebook XD
CO can run on almost anything.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But, also "maxed out" seems to be subjective. I'm "maxed out" on my old ATI card, but there are several features I am not able to control. So what's maxed for one might not be for another. The system seems to only give you what your hardware can handle (several of the settings the only option is "low" so I suspect there are other settings, I just don't get to see them).
4 gigs of RAM and 1 gig of vRAM? I'm playing with 3g/256m and having no trouble at all. I just don't get all the bells and whistles.
I didn't personally see anything in CoH/V that would even remotely qualify this statement. Lower poly count, lower quality effects, lower quality textures in most of the art I saw, odd animations. Frankly, CoH/V was hard to look at it which is one reason why I played so little of it I find it easier to just say I didn't play it (with the other reason being the gameplay being dull both when I played it at the low levels I experienced and when I watched other people play it at max level).
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
However, the style of the world was extremely better...in my opinion.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I agree CO's art direction was terrible. Most bad guys look like Scooby Doo rejects.
@knightfalz I really hope for CO's sake you are wrong and they get their Devs back and this game can evolve... regardless of anyone's love/hate/etc for the game, if it becomes largely static it will die. As for the graphics I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because what I see in CO's trailer videos doesnt look as good as CoH/V to me(please note the conditional and not start a flame fest).
Now... This is from the SaveCOH facebook group again. Thought Id post it here to show you all 1)that people ARE indeed trying CO and trying to like it, and 2)That CO is getting some love
one question on graphics I would like to ask the community at large... are most of the opinions from before ultra mode that came out with Going Rogue? Just a minor curiosity I have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTPd3zUGb40 before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSklx00wkg after
Most people that I know tend to attribute more detail as better quality. The more intricate the graphics textures and whatnot, the more it appeals to them. It's part of the reason people think tights costumes look straight-up lame, because they don't have zippers and buckles and armor pads every three square inches of the costume.
City had very intricately designed textures on their costumes, whereas Champs relies heavily on normal mapping (creating texture using light sources, not drawn pixels).
I can see where the City players are coming from, having been there for years and all, and when they say "City's graphics were better," they're expressing their opinion (whether they know they are or not). There's no contest that in technical terms, Champs' graphics are better, but if you're not into stylized graphics, they ain't gonna float your boat.
To me, more shaders, better lighting, reflective surfaces, stuff like that aren't going to change my opinion very much. (Also, you realize that Champions already has all this stuff, right? Not sure how layering on more effects onto that old engine would equate to its graphics being better than Champs'.)
All Ultra Mode really did was bring the game's rendering up to modern standards. It was playing catch-up, graphically. It's really nothing to be impressed about unless you've been used to the previous graphics for years before.
For City to graphically get a "wow" response from me, they'd have to tweak the proportions of the characters, not making them look so stiff, up the polycount on their models a little bit (razor-sharp chins, no thanks!), have more than two color options for costumes... The settings were all pretty dull from what I remember. Nothing too bright and colorful. They'd need more detail in some of the older costumes (I'm not saying put detail where it doesn't belong, but, lots of costumes (tights) just kinda seemed painted onto the characters' skin. And finally, the graphics look generic to me; Stylized graphics always impress me more (one of my favorites being the Borderlands series).
I don't know, the graphics weren't terrible, but to me, the character models in Champs just have a greater appeal (and this was something that grabbed me from the first screenshot I saw of Champions, after having played City for several months).
As a disclaimer I want to say that I don't think Champions' graphics are perfect, but they're more in style with my liking. I also love the animations in Champions, whereas in City, there were only a couple powers that really stood out and made me go "Wow, that looks cool!"
Largely, it's all a matter of taste and preference.
Edit - after watching those videos, one thing that I do find impressive is the real-time reflective surfaces. Definitely looks cool, but a feature I don't imagine is very useful unless you're taking pretty screenshots. Cool nonetheless.
I think it's safe to say that no, it's not. It's too late now, but taking a look at Atlas Park and comparing it to the newer zones, even ULTRA AP looks like ****. I actually have pictures at home, I'll post them later. Do the new zones look good? Effin A they do. But I'm given to understand most people didn't really spend any time outside the MA building in AP anyway. That assumption aside, however, it doesn't change the facts that the whole of CoX did not look like this wonderful... thing, or whatever. Only the newer small chunks that were added recently.
And like smack said, people seem to think "moar stuffz!!" is "better graphics" when it's just more stuffs. There were some amazing costumes in CoX, without a doubt, and some of the CO stuff could use a little more detail, but technical quality is a different argument, and you can plainly see the difference if the goal is to make a stuff-laden toon. A PA toon here will look much better then the best PosiClone.
And it doesn't even have to get that crazy... Old Pi and New Pi can show the big differences in something as simple as blue on black.
That picture of Old Pi was during the CoX shut down.
Meanwhile my overly 90s tribute character demonstrates a larger amount of details, like fingers.
Also visible? Sinewy muscle, reflective boots, etched sword, reflective belt buckle, textured belt and arm tubes, transparent glasses, detailed guns, and pouches.
Or the windows in the building at the middle top that's a half mile away (maybe more).
People say "better graphics" but what they mean is "graphics I prefer."
Whereas when I was beta testing CO and my wife was playing CoH on her PC right next to me, my eyes kept getting drawn back to CoH. Graphical tastes vary.
Note before I make a couple of criticisms below that I am enjoying CO right now. But noting impressions -- constructively -- is okay and sometimes useful to the devs.
The cartoony style of CO (it's not major comic book style) was a turn-off to me. I like faces to look like faces. I like detailing, even if it means sacrificing animated faces. Since beta, CO enhanced the sliders dramatically, so that helps a LOT. But I still prefer more realistic faces that the semi-caricatured ones in CO.
CoH overplayed the "eye candy" part of their female characters and their running/walking animations, but CO almost went the extreme opposite. Idle animations and proportions seem okay (after playing with sliders), but when female characters in CO go into the standard jogging animation, they get this bump across their backs (not exactly hunchbacked, but kind of warped) and the body movement is unnatural. It almost seems to draw their shoulders together a little and they become kind of dowdy-looking.
I'd love it if the animations could fall somewhere between CoH and CO in this case.
That said, I LOVE the multi-color options for the costumes and the variety of pattern options available for tights in CO. I also really like my moonbase
Some of the main things in CO that could be improved (from what I have seen in two months of play, not counting beta testing because the game has matured since then). :
1. Fix the female jogging (standard movement) animation to remove the back/shoulder bump and make it look a little more natural.
2. Storyline/mission content needs to be added. One thing I enjoyed about CoH and still enjoy with LOTRO is that there are multiple leveling paths. I can level several characters concurrently and have variations between missions/regions, etc. There is definitely a lot of overlap, but there is also a lot of variety mixed in. Whether additional story content is added via dev content designers or by adding a Foundry to CO, such content is important.
3. Add more free character slots for subscribers, especially since this is a game that encourages alting from a costume/power selection perspective. Eight is far too few when compared to similar games (in CoH I had eleven servers with eight slots each initially, advanced to twelve each later; LOTRO launched with multiple servers with five slots each, up to nine eventually). Character slots in CO are also more expensive than those games (I will buy some when they are on sale).
4. Just a minor personal preference: Let us toggle off the full body bleed FX. It looks silly, unnatural, and grotesque. Some don't mind it, some do.
I do believe that some people are "misusing" the phrase "better graphics".
Like I said...I know that CO has better graphics overall than CoH.
However, I would take the look of Atlas Park/Steel Canyon/Talos/Peregrine Island over Millennium City every single time. (and this is without Ultra settings)
For me...it's the style.
Give me a game with CO character models, animations, and mechanics...put it into the world of CoH...and that would be my dream superhero game.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Agreed. Ideally CO would be everything CO is (minus alerts), plus the CoX world/lore/missions.
That is the perfect game.
edit: and CoX's style. Or not, as long as it's just a little less cartoony than we have now.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I could get behind this. Four or five free slots wouldn't be so bad.
One of my favorite places in Champs is the area north of Renaissance Center. I just love the look of that place.
When I stand back and try to divorce myself from my antipathy towards Cryptic's management (I think it sometimes clouds my judgement), I think Cryptic erred in not giving us multiple, quality systems that let us entertain ourselves outside of combat.
Content, for me, doesn't always mean "more missions".
I think CoH sometimes gave us, the players, what we wanted ... and sometimes gave us things we didn't even know we wanted.
I think CO has cycled through devs (seriously, is anyone from release still actively working on the game?) so fast that no one really gets a good feel for the game, its players, and their collective psyche. And the game suffers for it.
Here's hoping the new year sees some positive changes. A decent place to start, IME, would be to have some substantive dialogue with someone who works on the game. Don't get me wrong, patch notes are great (and demonstrate that someone's propagating bug fixes from other games) ... but ... damn. I miss Tumerboy even if most of his posts were tangential to the game.
That's fine. When I talk graphics I talk technical merits not personal preferences which is why everything I mentioned was technical with only a small blurb that I found it hard to look at it (mainly due to the animations, same problem I have currently with The Secret World). On the technical level, no, CoX was better than CO. Just less of everything with a different art style as to be expected from a game running an older engine.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Y'know, when CoH: Freedom came out, Atlas Park did get a graphical revamp beyond Ultra Mode. It looked positively gorgeous (and that annoying block of a building that you had to run/fly around was replaced with something more architecturally sensible). Not to mention that the newer zones were looking really, really good.
This video illustrates these details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggl6m7p98vk
Concerning character animations, I have to say that the newer animations in CoH (and some of the old even) are a lot better than the ones in CO. The CO animations, actually, are a little jerky. They don't flow together very well.
That said, though, the graphics in CO are definitely superior, it's just unfortunate that they chose a style that didn't take an advantage of those graphics.
Again, another matter of taste. To me, lots of the Champions animations have a style and flair that I didn't find in City.
Except the walking animations. Especially for females.
If you don't use the sexy animation, get ready to look like you're trying to hold a tennis ball between your buttcheeks when you walk down the road.
Yeah, I didn't say I liked ALL the animations. :P Most though, yes. Even the simple things, like the animations for strafing while charging an attack... looks awesome.
+1
I'm with you. I don't like the walk animation in CO. Apart from the fact that my character looks like he/she is powerwalking the mall with the speed at which they walk, it just seems so stiff and unnatural.
And not just the bad guys. Most good guys running around too. Sure, they're shiny, well defined and colored good and bad guys....but they look.....well, ICK. Ditto the game world itself. It's pretty, but it looks like an Escher painting.
It's rapidly becoming my ONLY gripe about the game, however. I'm learning to live with the bugs(who doesn't ^_^)and the gameplay -is- very fast and action-y, which lends to quicker leveling, fun game play, and a host of other things, there's a TON of "easter egg" references to be found, some of which actually get a snerk outta me most times....yes. It's a fun game. The community is welcoming, despite the usual crowd of trolls(but then what game DOESN'T have those).
Bottom line? Yeah, I like the game. No, I'm not going to compare it to CoX any more. While both games deal with the same genre, they're separate things. Totally different with similar features.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
It reminds me of a glitch in Secret World where when activating sprint it fails to load the sprint animation, so you start running like a Benny Hill video.
Another issue w/ the graphics is that, due to its age, many CoX players had older machines and had to play CO w/ lighting set to low. Since Co relies so heavily upon texture mapping and lighting, shutting these off makes the game look flat and very lacking in detail. CoX relied on more detailed, though flat, textures and patterns applied to lower polygon-count models. Especially with faces, CoX simply had a selection of premade ones, and that's what you went with. Unless you specifically go into the CO face slider menu and play around with the settings, you'll have a very generic look. Of course, CO character actually blink, can open their mouths, and let's not forget fingers and the ability to make different parts glow!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
What feels different from a gameplay perspective is that CoH was very much about how survivable you could make your character, while CO seems based around how much DPS you can dish out. That's why Blasters (all offense, no defense) always struggled in CoH while in CO "blaster" seems to be the best build for all characters.
I'm enjoying myself a lot in CO, but I don't feel like it has the sheer variety of character play styles and roles (despite the "Role" system) that CoH had. Everyone is basically either a Blaster or a Scrapper, and my most effective CO characters so far are ones that embrace the DPS and entirely ignore defensive and support powers.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
And that's why I like villains.