It wasn't always like that. People are moaning right now since most of the developers seem to have been temporarily moved to help the launch of Neverwinter. It's happened before to us with STO. But development of this game didn't stop when STO launched. Yes, we've been in a gradual downhill of content, but the guys who do work on the game are passionate about it and are really good at talking to the community about it.
You guys did come over at probably one of the game's lowest points because of Neverwinter, and we all think that sucks. When we first heard the news of the CoH shutdown, the whole community here was real sympathetic, and we pleaded the developers to do something awesome for when you guys came over.
Unfortunately, it seems that to PWE, this game's priority is too low even for that.
Which really surprises me, the genre is under used and ripe for a flagship mmo, CoH/V's profits show it can be done, and the community obviously feels DC and Marvel failed hard. I understand Neverwinter will quite possibly be a monster win for PWI but I really dont get why they cant see the potential for a similar monster in this genre... perhaps its because china doesnt have a comic book super hero genre?? Far as I know comics are more an american/euro thing than an asia one.
Because not everyone is you and not everyone thinks and plays games the way you do or for the reasons you do.
You don't, out of personal preference? Great!
Looking down on someone who makes a different choice? Lame!
Whoa there cowboy, don't get all defensive here. You realize that you're attacking me over my personal preference, because you think I'm attacking someone else over their personal preference, right? The irony.
All I said was that personally, I don't see why people want to play villains. When someone answered "By doing all this bad stuff!" I just said "I don't wanna do any of that."
If you'd like to point out where I looked down on someone because they make different choices than I do, be my guest.
Which really surprises me, the genre is under used and ripe for a flagship mmo, CoH/V's profits show it can be done, and the community obviously feels DC and Marvel failed hard. I understand Neverwinter will quite possibly be a monster win for PWI but I really dont get why they cant see the potential for a similar monster in this genre... perhaps its because china doesnt have a comic book super hero genre?? Far as I know comics are more an american/euro thing than an asia one.
Who knows. Could be in the analytics, could be ignorance in management, we'll never know.
Please take the time to note the use of satire to counter your own silly implication...
The added edit only helps drive home the implication. Is obviously lack of villains. (insert eyeroll here)
With another silly implication. The best part was you taking it seriously. Thanks for that.
Then I have to ask if you have a guilty conscience because that was NOT the implication. you're seeing what isnt there. If your community really IS so small you fear the addition of villain PCs and/or you have unfortunately long wait time for party instances, then you really ought to ask yourselves why. Is it content? Quality? PvP suckage? Game Mechanics? What?
Half of the time, villains are fighting another villain group. From time to time, they fight a hero.
It has been said, that the issue with villains is that differently from heroes who are reactive to events( a disaster or villain rampage). Villains are active, they want something and act accordingly. The real implementation of villainy has to come from a sandbox game.
A funny thing was that most people on CoV were more polite and nice than the people in other games, and interesting thing was that CoV environment was nicer than CoH.
Your first point has a lot of merit, as often as not villains and villain groups ARE busting each other down. That would be a fun aspect to play
Villains can be reactive as well, but your poin is taken, and yes they usually ARE stirring the pot more than heroes are. I disagree with the need for sandbox to really implement this facet tho. Borrowing from the genre's tropes there are probably about a dozen or less general "villanous schemes" one could select from a list of options and turn that dozen into hundreds of more specific plots. These plots could be acted upon by other villains or heroes which makes things really interesting for PvP. Smaller scaled or more secretive versions could produce lesser results but remain PvE versus iconic npc characters.
As to the last bit, lol I never played blues much, but you are right, if I needed help for a quest or something, it was usually quite easy to get a couple extra reds formed into a quick party
You know, the community here was genuinely sad to hear about CoX's demise. We wanted to make you all feel welcome here, even if this was a second choice for you.
And then we get a flood of threads like this.
It's hard to welcome someone into your home when they lead off by criticizing your taste in furniture, TV shows, and sandwich makings...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
You know, the community here was genuinely sad to hear about CoX's demise. We wanted to make you all feel welcome here, even if this was a second choice for you.
And then we get a flood of threads like this.
It's hard to welcome someone into your home when they lead off by criticizing your taste in furniture, TV shows, and sandwich makings...
Sorry you feel that way, not sure you read the whole first post if you feel Im tryin to trash on CO.
I am going to start playing CO on account CoX is gone for the time being, and let's face it - DCUO is utterly ****, aside form the graphics it's one huge cup where the DC writers wank off to there current roster of tighrunners.
And I'll always prefer Cox cus I'm biased and... godamn it I MISS the Arachnos, the dudes has sleek stylish armor, even the runty Wolf Spiders, and don't even get me started on how cool the Bane and Crab spider armors/sets were
But hey, CO's graphics might be eye-****ing but let's see the content.
OP. As someone who played CoH from the start till the end and someone who has played CO for the last year and a half I can honestly say does anyone care why you like the game you like . SERIOUSLY. I myself like Darkstalkers better than Streetfighter, but you dont see me moaning at Streetfighter fans over Darkstalkers getting canned >_>
This has to be the single most fail thread I have even read on this forum ( and I have read ALL of Shevs threads). I am sad CoH is gone it was my other main mmo after CO. But the fact is, its gone, get over it. Why come to Cryptic's other super mmo and try to butthurt all over it.
I would go -.- a lot at you, but -.- will not cut it this time, so I shall express myself through ART \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yer another long post, some general thoughts on the choice I made:
I played City of Heroes for close to two years from launch. I enjoyed myself a great deal, but eventually I stopped. I've played Champions Online from beta, despite far fewer zones and leveling options, I'm still around, over three years later, having endured numerous bugs and disappointments.
So why have I stuck around in CO when I didn't for CoH?
1. Personal investment. I have a history with the Champions property that I didn't have with CoH or DCUO. Mind you, that investment isn't altogether positive, as I haven't always agreed with some of the decisions that Cryptic made about the campaign world, however, it made it much easier to recreate an old PnP character that belonged in the world, and that connection has helped hold me here for the duration.
2. Community. I've found a lot of friends that I like here, and the RP is great. The single server and the relatively low pop contributes to a feeling that I belong in the community, as opposed to being just another toon in a crowd, which is how I felt on CoH and all but one server on WoW. Again, I feel connected here.
3. Combat. Combat in Champions Online is fun for me. There are plenty of strategic and tactical options, it's colorful, fast-paced, and yet doesn't feel like a console game, unlike DCUO, which is very good for what it is, but which I (oddly) find makes me think "I'm playing a console game" that it doesn't feel right as an RPG. Champions Online hits a sweet spot for me.
4. Freeform. I can be the hero I want to be, in ways I simply felt I couldn't anywhere else. The customization options and the number of combinations I can play, and therefore fulfill most of the genre concepts I wanted to play. Both early CoH (ie. what I played before I left) and DCUO have some really odd roles they force you into. Fire tanks? Who in comics are those trying to emulate?
5. Comic book tone. This one is variable, as comics have a great many tones, and I think a good comic book game has to include a good mix of all of them, including the humorous (I *do* enjoy Foxbat) and the grim (Vibora Bay Apocalypse rocks). Cheese is fine (the Red Winter alert is close to perfect), though a lot of Layman's early Champions designs feel too "cute" to me, with too many pop culture references. In the words of one Otto Octavius, "glib does not equate with clever".
I prefer my supers in the Bronze age where I first connected with comics, with a just a hint of Iron Age "realism" and that's where Champions is largely grounded, though I would like a little more vigor in getting some of the details right and a bit more nitty gritty. Not having character bios for the bad guys (or nemeses), or having generic evidence in things like the Nighthawk chain (if we're going to convict Franklin Bloody Stone, put some effort into it! Describe his crimes!), or unnamed NPCs with bland generic dialogue drives me up a wall.
I'm, still waiting for the perfect scenario, but some of the comic series and adventure packs (particularly Resistance, Whiteout and the first three parts of Aftershock) have come closer to making me feel like I'm a character in a comic book than I've felt in any other comic book MMO, and that goes a long way for me. DCUO has better cutscenes and voice acting by a long way, yet there's something about the setting that's a barrier to me, and I'm not sure exactly what it is yet. It just feels wrong to be taking MMO quests from Superman.
So what in City of Heroes encouraged me to quit?
1. Cave missions. I have never had a more frustrating experience in an MMO than in CoX's cave missions. I'd rather spend hours in classic Lagmuria than go through another one of those damn caves again. Hate. Hate. Hate.
2. The Grind. Too many missions in the same environment over and over again, for too little reward. The slow leveling after L10 was just not fun. CO suffers from this problem to a lesser extent, but it's far easier to get a character to maximum level here than in City Of.
3. Lack of community. Or, to be more precise, my inability to find and connect with a good RP community on Champion server. Had I found Virtue, my CoH experience might have been substantially different. (Or, having not acclimatized myself to some of the idiosyncrasies of MMO RP by playing in WoW, I might have run screaming the first time I hit Pocket D ).
4. Lack of a comic book feel. I wanted to fight supervillains. I wanted to feel like Spidey or Cap and Superman. Instead I ended up facing agents, over and over and over again. I'll admit that Champions Online has the same problem ? paging Tachyon, where did you go? ? but even most of the guys billed as Villains in CoH just looked like normal agents. It was Everquest with fantasy mobs replaced in a different style of dress. Why, I wondered, given the vast options of the costume creator, couldn't the game give us villains who stood out more?
This genre dissonance became even more pronounced when the Kheldians showed up. They just didn't feel comic book to me ? instead of taking me on a journey that felt true to the genre, it felt like I was being forced into the dev team's pet science fiction project. I didn't want to play out the characters in their SF novel. It made no sense that, in a comic book game, the only way for me to be "epic" was to buy into the Warshade or Peacebringer mythos, rather than have options that more closely modeled what was epic in comics. In retrospect, I think I was being much too harsh, but that's how I felt at the time.
5. Forced teaming. I like to play at my own pace. For reasons I'd rather not get into here, I don't have very good hand-eye coordination anymore, and the interiors in CoX felt incredibly unforgiving to me. Attempting to navigate the interiors and keep up with the rest of the team were a nightmare. I never had one moment of fun in a CoX Task Force, ever. CoX put me off team play in pretty much every MMO.
Worse, as I leveled, I had the feeling the devs were putting the game design equivalent of a gun to my head. Given a choice of "team or quit", I chose to join friends who skipped over to WoW (though I stayed on for months after most of them left). WoW teaming was a little better, particularly in outdoor instances, and CO has generally been better still, though it's still not a favorite part of my play style.
Despite my problems, I had enormous fun for a very long time with City of Heroes, and I'm really sad that it's gone. Had it not been for WoW and health issues, I would have played for much longer. If you're looking at my reasons and not agreeing with them, great. I think the point is that we all have differing tastes. I have no interest in villain play beyond providing antagonists for people in RP when I'm running for them, and I'm not a big fan of bloody-handed vigilantism, even though I do like moral depth in my RPGs. I would love a UGC system, and I did envy CoX players that and the rich emote system, and I have a ton of respect for their devs (a few of which I was happy to count as friends) who are a great model for any MMO team. It's no accident that CoX connected with its community in a way that Champions has not, despite CO having some great devs over the years (Rob, Tumerboy, Splosions, and H20rat being standouts, and Ame and Crush's willingness to interact, even when I strongly disagreed, being appreciated).
Then I have to ask if you have a guilty conscience because that was NOT the implication. you're seeing what isnt there. If your community really IS so small you fear the addition of villain PCs and/or you have unfortunately long wait time for party instances, then you really ought to ask yourselves why. Is it content? Quality? PvP suckage? Game Mechanics? What?
In your effort to rapid reply and some how win an argument. You keep missing key points. Ive already said it.
Lets not confuse neglect and mismanagement for anything else.
The game as it is, is fine. The folks here are actually very passionate about it. The responses to this topic alone more then indicate that. The problem most folks have is not the game but the direction it is going and the untapped potential it has. That most feel has simply been squandered and wasted.
You don't need to invent any other reasons for the games state, then that alone. So no, its not guilt or any thing else. Those who have been here for any length of time are well aware of the problems. And really dont need help from the new flood of new critics.
OP. As someone who played CoH from the start till the end and someone who has played CO for the last year and a half I can honestly say does anyone care why you like the game you like . SERIOUSLY. I myself like Darkstalkers better than Streetfighter, but you dont see me moaning at Streetfighter fans over Darkstalkers getting canned >_>
This has to be the single most fail thread I have even read on this forum ( and I have read ALL of Shevs threads). I am sad CoH is gone it was my other main mmo after CO. But the fact is, its gone, get over it. Why come to Cryptic's other super mmo and try to butthurt all over it.
I would go -.- a lot at you, but -.- will not cut it this time, so I shall express myself through ART \o/
Us: No thanks, we chose CO for a reason (whatever that reason might be)...
By all means, please, make your suggestions and state your preferences. But don't get huffy when folks here read the underlying message of 'Your game isn't as good as mine was'...
:cool:
edit: And to everyone replying in this thread, please read my sig. Mijjestic is wise... sometimes...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Yer another long post, some general thoughts on the choice I made
Awesome! you got the point exactly I never felt the "Forced teaming" you did but I totally get you on the "trying to keep up" part. I played solo most of the time and on several of the rare instances I did group up I felt like I was wading through molasses watching my party zip around half the map in front of me.
Us: No thanks, we chose CO for a reason (whatever that reason might be)...
By all means, please, make your suggestions and state your preferences. But don't get huffy when folks here read the underlying message of 'Your game isn't as good as mine was'...
Go back and re-read then
Fortunately despite 3 people attempting to get butthurt over the conversation, lokikin totally not getting it, and a couple shots of some slight animosity between fans of either one, this has been a great discussion so far imo, and constructive. If I can get CO to run, there are a few things I am now looking forward to seeing and trying out.
@canadascott... again AWESOME, you totally got the intent and that was a great post imo it was also a perfect counterpoint to my o.p.
What many people have touched on, and I agree with, is that the "villainy" in CoV was waaaay too specific for my tastes. You were basically an enforcer for someone else. You couldn't be the mastermind behind the plans - you didn't get to pick and choose what schemes you undertook and then see them through to fruition. You couldn't be the type of villain that uses extortion or *others* to do your dirty work - that's what the contact made you into. You got mission A from contact B, who had you attack (most of the time) other villain group C. Heck, there was that mission chain where that one guy *made* you take down a greater evil by threatening you. You couldn't say "no" if you wanted to complete his arc, nor could you get back at him for tricking you or anything.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I am a CoX vet kid probably put more money into than you and by seeing what you wrote you started when Going Rouge started . People like yourself going all over forums in countless games is making people get sick of hearing about City of Heroes.
People like you are not helping the efforts to resurrect said game. I am sick of hearing about CoX now. Who really cares. I am sorry but people who played CoX for like 5 mins then bang on about its makes me sick.
Today I played WoW, ToR , DCUO and guess what I heard thats right kiddies some idiot going on about how better City of Heroes is.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I am a CoX vet kid probably put more money into than you and by seeing what you wrote you started when Going Rouge started . People like yourself going all over forums in countless games is making people get sick of hearing about City of Heroes.
People like you are not helping the efforts to resurrect said game. I am sick of hearing about CoX now. Who really cares. I am sorry but people who played CoX for like 5 mins then bang on about its makes me sick.
Today I played WoW, ToR , DCUO and guess what I heard thats right kiddies some idiot going on about how better City of Heroes is.
So move on... dont get all emo nerdrage and butthurt. Considering you are one of 3 people being flaming asshats in what is otherwise a really good discussion thread, feel free to absent yourself from it.
So move on... dont get all emo nerdrage and butthurt. Considering you are one of 3 people being flaming asshats in what is otherwise a really good discussion thread, feel free to absent yourself from it.
To be honest when you say CoX looked better than CO it does sort of make you look like sloth from the Goonies. How is that in anyway a good discussion?
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
To be honest when you say CoX looked better than CO it does sort of make you look like sloth from the Goonies. How is that in anyway a good discussion?
Whoa whoa whoa what the hell is going on here... this is still a pretty decent discussion but man, both sides of you lunatics are really getting personal over some nonsense...
We all agree - CoX did some stuff good, and CO needs more genuine attention, that's it.
Come on folks, lets try to be a little bit better than this... I mean, we've all had our moments, but seriously can't we all just......
Kid seriously calling me a troll has no effect XD Ive been nagging TT for official forum troll tag for absolutely ages.
a pity there is not a 'report post' button, now to set off and find the ignore user feature. I only hope your stupidity will not kill off this thread its been a lot of fun so far.
Whoa whoa whoa what the hell is going on here... this is still a pretty decent discussion but man, both sides of you lunatics are really getting personal over some nonsense...
We all agree - CoX did some stuff good, and CO needs more genuine attention, that's it.
Come on folks, lets try to be a little bit better than this... I mean, we've all had our moments, but seriously can't we all just......
Whoa whoa whoa what the hell is going on here... this is still a pretty decent discussion but man, both sides of you lunatics are really getting personal over some nonsense...
We all agree - CoX did some stuff good, and CO needs more genuine attention, that's it.
Come on folks, lets try to be a little bit better than this... I mean, we've all had our moments, but seriously can't we all just......
...What the Fu...
No. No this is unacceptable this.. I don't even... you should.... and then.... I just.....
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
OK OK ..I know ...Darkstalkers...its the Twilight of video games I am shamed
But Demetri was the man and you know it XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So move on... dont get all emo nerdrage and butthurt. Considering you are one of 3 people being flaming asshats in what is otherwise a really good discussion thread, feel free to absent yourself from it.
You don't get to dictate how people respond to your words, child. If you feel they're being misinterpreted, write them better next time.
But to me, what Champs lacks in playable content, it makes up for in its characters. I love me some alts, and love playing all the different concepts and personalities I can come up with.
That right there is a biggie with regard to CoH vs. CO for me, for a couple of reasons.
First, for the life of the CoH game, I had 11 servers, initially with 8 character slots per server, then 12 as I bought expansions, etc. I had over 100 characters in CoH. As a subscriber in CO, I get 8. I can purchase more, but they are more expensive than character slots in CoH.
Second, I love alts, but what made it work better in CoH is that there was a greater abundance of story content so that not every character had to follow the same leveling path. I could avoid content I didn't like altogether because there was always something else to fill the gap. This became even stronger when Mission Architect was added. I even wrote my own missions.
CO has some good systems and *is* fun to play. No knocking it there (even though I enjoyed CoH more in general). Lack of storyline content and missions and severely limited number of up front character slots (in comparison) are the major drawbacks for me.
Now compared to DCUO, CO rocks. That's why it's my new superhero MMO. If they were to add the Foundry (which has far more storytelling functionality than MA did, at least in STO), it would go from "fun for now" to "fantastic."
That right there is a biggie with regard to CoH vs. CO for me, for a couple of reasons.
First, for the life of the CoH game, I had 11 servers, initially with 8 character slots per server, then 12 as I bought expansions, etc. I had over 100 characters in CoH. As a subscriber in CO, I get 8. I can purchase more, but they are more expensive than character slots in CoH.
Second, I love alts, but what made it work better in CoH is that there was a greater abundance of story content so that not every character had to follow the same leveling path. I could avoid content I didn't like altogether because there was always something else to fill the gap. This became even stronger when Mission Architect was added. I even wrote my own missions.
CO has some good systems and *is* fun to play. No knocking it there (even though I enjoyed CoH more in general). Lack of storyline content and missions and severely limited number of up front character slots (in comparison) are the major drawbacks for me.
Now compared to DCUO, CO rocks. That's why it's my new superhero MMO. If they were to add the Foundry (which has far more storytelling functionality than MA did, at least in STO), it would go from "fun for now" to "fantastic."
I have to agree with all you have said here. But for me there never was CoH vs CO as I loved them both. To be truthful I like all the Cryptic games. For some reason I do tend to prefare the story telling in CoH when Cryptic was running it. I think STO has some of that old CoH Storytelling vibe to it.
A coherent plot in my opinion is all CO is missing.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And, contrary to your belief, I do indeed "get it". You have a valid point. It's the same point we've all had here for a long time; CO has a great deal of unfulfilled potential. But you've obscured it with a bunch of retorical "blah, blah, blah, and this is why I preferred CoX". Valid point; weak delivery. You'd have done a better job by just posting your 'tl;dr'.
But your subsequent responses have confirmed that you are indeed a BEAUTIFULLY UNIQUE SPARKLEPONY...
:rolleyes:
edit: And by the way, your glasses are thicker than mine, nah nah nah nah nah nah....
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
And, contrary to your belief, I do indeed "get it". You have a valid point. It's the same point we've all had here for a long time; CO has a great deal of unfulfilled potential. But you've obscured it with a bunch of retorical "blah, blah, blah, and this is why I preferred CoX". Valid point; weak delivery. You'd have done a better job by just posting your 'tl;dr'.
But your subsequent responses have confirmed that you are indeed a BEAUTIFULLY UNIQUE SPARKLEPONY...
:rolleyes:
My god that was beautiful *snif*
The use of sparklepony just carries this posts narrative..masterful.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And, contrary to your belief, I do indeed "get it". You have a valid point. It's the same point we've all had here for a long time; CO has a great deal of unfulfilled potential. But you've obscured it with a bunch of retorical "blah, blah, blah, and this is why I preferred CoX". Valid point; weak delivery. You'd have done a better job by just posting your 'tl;dr'.
Posting only the tl:dr wouldnt have gotten the point across nor started 7 pages of great conversation. Its all fine and dandy to give an opinion, but its the WHYS that are important.
Posting only the tl:dr wouldnt have gotten the point across nor started 7 pages of great conversation. Its all fine and dandy to give an opinion, but its the WHYS that are important.
I disagree...
I think if you had posted your tl;dr, we would be at 7 pages of people agreeing with you...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Another call for divided factions. I just don't get it.
Every other MMO has faction. You simply cant find one without it. Being factionless is the one thing that makes CO rather unique.
EVERYONE can join up and run missions. EVERYONE can be on the same team. EVERYONE can do anything together.
Why would you want to ruin that, just to add in a tiny bit of flavor? Congrats you're now a villain...go to this contact for a mission, and segregate yourself from half the game. Or worse, wait twice as long for an alert to pop while the system fills up with enough folks on the same faction with you.
I'm rather happy we are one of the few if not only place out there that does not force folks to pick teams before they even start the game.
I can agree with the "why do people start to throw stones at one another" when comparisons are being made. Both games have/had merits. Both had/have bad points.
Pretty much, this game is a good game, but it's doomed to mediocrity for me, personally. I've stated my reasons why. I don't get butthurt when someone tries to challenge them or change them. They're -my- reasons, dammit.
That said.....yes, if this game gets some dev love after the release of Neverwinter.....perhaps it can shine. I'll still hate the corgi car wheels, the uniface that seemingly despite how much people play with the sliders still looks like the same anime face......the oddly proportioned bodies that most people run around with....but otherwise? I -do- enjoy playing the game. Really. It's better than the other superhero game out there by a long shot. It's better than WoW(for me). It's better than the Secret World. (Well, not better looking, that's for sure! :P )
It's better than STO. (But still not better looking! ^_^) I mean...I tried STO for about a month. It's pretty, laws yes. But....wonky, too. But somehow...I just don't like playing it as much as this. And I GREW UP on Kirk and Spock and Scotty.
Still waiting for another superhero game to come out. (And no, Marvel's doesn't count!)
Whoa there cowboy, don't get all defensive here. You realize that you're attacking me over my personal preference, because you think I'm attacking someone else over their personal preference, right? The irony.
All I said was that personally, I don't see why people want to play villains. When someone answered "By doing all this bad stuff!" I just said "I don't wanna do any of that."
You should try it sometime. Sometimes it feels sooooo good to be soooooo bad.
After all, there's a reason these guys are popular.
You should try it sometime. Sometimes it feels sooooo good to be soooooo bad.
After all, there's a reason these guys are popular.
Had a stalker in CoH. Did nothing for me. I just don't have that "feels so good to be so bad" desire. The way you feel about that is how I feel about being good. So, yeah. Still don't get it.
Had a stalker in CoH. Did nothing for me. I just don't have that "feels so good to be so bad" desire. The way you feel about that is how I feel about being good. So, yeah. Still don't get it.
Well, I only have this to say to you...
"From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
Also, no. I'm not "rethinking" my words. I said what I mean and I mean what I said. I'm not trashing this game, but I'm not praising it, either. It sits solidly in mediocrity for me.
All I'm saying is, every time you bring up Champions in this thread, you say the words hate, bad, cheesy, not quality, you're only giving this game a chance because there's nothing else out there (high praise!).
Maybe the words you should be rethinking were "This is not to say this game is worse," and "I'm not trashing this game," because, you're literally saying the game is worse, and trashing it, every time you post.
And, please, don't try to pin the whole "butthurt" thing on me. One, I'm just calling your posts as I see them, and two, if I was butthurt, I could remove all your posts and lock the thread.
All I'm saying is, you're contradicting yourself. I'm sure you mean what you say and all that, but, to anyone reading your posts, it reads as "There's so much wrong with this game, the other game was better, but I'm not trying to put this game down at all." Doesn't really work, does it?
"From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
Fancy worlds for four-hundred-year-old David Bowie.
Oh, and to add to why those guys are so popular, I do appreciate a good villain. A good, well written villain makes the hero. I understand the importance of a great villain. I just don't want to pretend I'm doing crimes.
Half of the time, villains are fighting another villain group. From time to time, they fight a hero.
It has been said, that the issue with villains is that differently from heroes who are reactive to events( a disaster or villain rampage). Villains are active, they want something and act accordingly. The real implementation of villainy has to come from a sandbox game.
A funny thing was that most people on CoV were more polite and nice than the people in other games, and interesting thing was that CoV environment was nicer than CoH.
There were less of us redside so we got to know each other better and had to play nice or we wouldn't have had anyone to play with. :biggrin:
There were less of us redside so we got to know each other better and had to play nice or we wouldn't have had anyone to play with. :biggrin:
Tell me about it the Baroness seemed to know all about my toons on the CoX channel today. I thought I kept a low profile on CoX..but no she sees all. She gave me THE FEAR @__@"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Exactly. Those are things I never want to do, even in a video game. I honestly don't understand why you'd want to.
For most people, fantasy is for doing something they cannot or would not do. One of the biggest draws of most video games at all is routinely killing stuff and not have to pay a real-life consequence for such behavior.
Wasn't my draw particularly, but I see the appeal. Me, I just wanted to "tell stories" from the other side. It's too bad CoV turned out woefully inadequate for that. No scheming or planning, just going and beating up what you were told to. Plus CoV was too "raily". Not half the options of storyline that CoH had.
Did the OP really fault Cryptic for their game that was released in 2009 not running
on his POS machine from 2000? Are you freakin' kidding me?
The mininum system spec chip was released in 2007.
I think he's more complaining about them not publishing updated spec requirements (not that I have any idea if they did or not or where one might find them...I just assumed if I could run CoX, I could run CO).
Theme park games can't do villainy right by their very nature. Including CoX.
In such games when you are playing as a villain you are always more or less glorified minion. The only time when I had any kind of really villainous experience in the video games was when I was playing sandbox games, most often when playing strategy games. Using any kind of underhanded strategies to meet my own ends.
Villains aren't reactive.
They don't follow others plans and agendas, they are making their own.
And even when reacting for others, as they aren't bound by any rules of engagement, they're mostly making their own plots.
Playing someone like Dr Doom or Megatron would require a gameplay more akin to the strategy rather than mmo game.
I do not consider simply assaulting citizens, making a mere bank robbery, or occasional slaughter as being a real villain. It's a thug gameplay, not a villain gameplay.
Comments
Which really surprises me, the genre is under used and ripe for a flagship mmo, CoH/V's profits show it can be done, and the community obviously feels DC and Marvel failed hard. I understand Neverwinter will quite possibly be a monster win for PWI but I really dont get why they cant see the potential for a similar monster in this genre... perhaps its because china doesnt have a comic book super hero genre?? Far as I know comics are more an american/euro thing than an asia one.
Whoa there cowboy, don't get all defensive here. You realize that you're attacking me over my personal preference, because you think I'm attacking someone else over their personal preference, right? The irony.
All I said was that personally, I don't see why people want to play villains. When someone answered "By doing all this bad stuff!" I just said "I don't wanna do any of that."
If you'd like to point out where I looked down on someone because they make different choices than I do, be my guest.
People can be so touchy sometimes.
Who knows. Could be in the analytics, could be ignorance in management, we'll never know.
Your first point has a lot of merit, as often as not villains and villain groups ARE busting each other down. That would be a fun aspect to play
Villains can be reactive as well, but your poin is taken, and yes they usually ARE stirring the pot more than heroes are. I disagree with the need for sandbox to really implement this facet tho. Borrowing from the genre's tropes there are probably about a dozen or less general "villanous schemes" one could select from a list of options and turn that dozen into hundreds of more specific plots. These plots could be acted upon by other villains or heroes which makes things really interesting for PvP. Smaller scaled or more secretive versions could produce lesser results but remain PvE versus iconic npc characters.
As to the last bit, lol I never played blues much, but you are right, if I needed help for a quest or something, it was usually quite easy to get a couple extra reds formed into a quick party
And then we get a flood of threads like this.
It's hard to welcome someone into your home when they lead off by criticizing your taste in furniture, TV shows, and sandwich makings...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Sorry you feel that way, not sure you read the whole first post if you feel Im tryin to trash on CO.
And I'll always prefer Cox cus I'm biased and... godamn it I MISS the Arachnos, the dudes has sleek stylish armor, even the runty Wolf Spiders, and don't even get me started on how cool the Bane and Crab spider armors/sets were
But hey, CO's graphics might be eye-****ing but let's see the content.
This has to be the single most fail thread I have even read on this forum ( and I have read ALL of Shevs threads). I am sad CoH is gone it was my other main mmo after CO. But the fact is, its gone, get over it. Why come to Cryptic's other super mmo and try to butthurt all over it.
I would go -.- a lot at you, but -.- will not cut it this time, so I shall express myself through ART \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I played City of Heroes for close to two years from launch. I enjoyed myself a great deal, but eventually I stopped. I've played Champions Online from beta, despite far fewer zones and leveling options, I'm still around, over three years later, having endured numerous bugs and disappointments.
So why have I stuck around in CO when I didn't for CoH?
1. Personal investment. I have a history with the Champions property that I didn't have with CoH or DCUO. Mind you, that investment isn't altogether positive, as I haven't always agreed with some of the decisions that Cryptic made about the campaign world, however, it made it much easier to recreate an old PnP character that belonged in the world, and that connection has helped hold me here for the duration.
2. Community. I've found a lot of friends that I like here, and the RP is great. The single server and the relatively low pop contributes to a feeling that I belong in the community, as opposed to being just another toon in a crowd, which is how I felt on CoH and all but one server on WoW. Again, I feel connected here.
3. Combat. Combat in Champions Online is fun for me. There are plenty of strategic and tactical options, it's colorful, fast-paced, and yet doesn't feel like a console game, unlike DCUO, which is very good for what it is, but which I (oddly) find makes me think "I'm playing a console game" that it doesn't feel right as an RPG. Champions Online hits a sweet spot for me.
4. Freeform. I can be the hero I want to be, in ways I simply felt I couldn't anywhere else. The customization options and the number of combinations I can play, and therefore fulfill most of the genre concepts I wanted to play. Both early CoH (ie. what I played before I left) and DCUO have some really odd roles they force you into. Fire tanks? Who in comics are those trying to emulate?
5. Comic book tone. This one is variable, as comics have a great many tones, and I think a good comic book game has to include a good mix of all of them, including the humorous (I *do* enjoy Foxbat) and the grim (Vibora Bay Apocalypse rocks). Cheese is fine (the Red Winter alert is close to perfect), though a lot of Layman's early Champions designs feel too "cute" to me, with too many pop culture references. In the words of one Otto Octavius, "glib does not equate with clever".
I prefer my supers in the Bronze age where I first connected with comics, with a just a hint of Iron Age "realism" and that's where Champions is largely grounded, though I would like a little more vigor in getting some of the details right and a bit more nitty gritty. Not having character bios for the bad guys (or nemeses), or having generic evidence in things like the Nighthawk chain (if we're going to convict Franklin Bloody Stone, put some effort into it! Describe his crimes!), or unnamed NPCs with bland generic dialogue drives me up a wall.
I'm, still waiting for the perfect scenario, but some of the comic series and adventure packs (particularly Resistance, Whiteout and the first three parts of Aftershock) have come closer to making me feel like I'm a character in a comic book than I've felt in any other comic book MMO, and that goes a long way for me. DCUO has better cutscenes and voice acting by a long way, yet there's something about the setting that's a barrier to me, and I'm not sure exactly what it is yet. It just feels wrong to be taking MMO quests from Superman.
So what in City of Heroes encouraged me to quit?
1. Cave missions. I have never had a more frustrating experience in an MMO than in CoX's cave missions. I'd rather spend hours in classic Lagmuria than go through another one of those damn caves again. Hate. Hate. Hate.
2. The Grind. Too many missions in the same environment over and over again, for too little reward. The slow leveling after L10 was just not fun. CO suffers from this problem to a lesser extent, but it's far easier to get a character to maximum level here than in City Of.
3. Lack of community. Or, to be more precise, my inability to find and connect with a good RP community on Champion server. Had I found Virtue, my CoH experience might have been substantially different. (Or, having not acclimatized myself to some of the idiosyncrasies of MMO RP by playing in WoW, I might have run screaming the first time I hit Pocket D
4. Lack of a comic book feel. I wanted to fight supervillains. I wanted to feel like Spidey or Cap and Superman. Instead I ended up facing agents, over and over and over again. I'll admit that Champions Online has the same problem ? paging Tachyon, where did you go? ? but even most of the guys billed as Villains in CoH just looked like normal agents. It was Everquest with fantasy mobs replaced in a different style of dress. Why, I wondered, given the vast options of the costume creator, couldn't the game give us villains who stood out more?
This genre dissonance became even more pronounced when the Kheldians showed up. They just didn't feel comic book to me ? instead of taking me on a journey that felt true to the genre, it felt like I was being forced into the dev team's pet science fiction project. I didn't want to play out the characters in their SF novel. It made no sense that, in a comic book game, the only way for me to be "epic" was to buy into the Warshade or Peacebringer mythos, rather than have options that more closely modeled what was epic in comics. In retrospect, I think I was being much too harsh, but that's how I felt at the time.
5. Forced teaming. I like to play at my own pace. For reasons I'd rather not get into here, I don't have very good hand-eye coordination anymore, and the interiors in CoX felt incredibly unforgiving to me. Attempting to navigate the interiors and keep up with the rest of the team were a nightmare. I never had one moment of fun in a CoX Task Force, ever. CoX put me off team play in pretty much every MMO.
Worse, as I leveled, I had the feeling the devs were putting the game design equivalent of a gun to my head. Given a choice of "team or quit", I chose to join friends who skipped over to WoW (though I stayed on for months after most of them left). WoW teaming was a little better, particularly in outdoor instances, and CO has generally been better still, though it's still not a favorite part of my play style.
Despite my problems, I had enormous fun for a very long time with City of Heroes, and I'm really sad that it's gone. Had it not been for WoW and health issues, I would have played for much longer. If you're looking at my reasons and not agreeing with them, great. I think the point is that we all have differing tastes. I have no interest in villain play beyond providing antagonists for people in RP when I'm running for them, and I'm not a big fan of bloody-handed vigilantism, even though I do like moral depth in my RPGs. I would love a UGC system, and I did envy CoX players that and the rich emote system, and I have a ton of respect for their devs (a few of which I was happy to count as friends) who are a great model for any MMO team. It's no accident that CoX connected with its community in a way that Champions has not, despite CO having some great devs over the years (Rob, Tumerboy, Splosions, and H20rat being standouts, and Ame and Crush's willingness to interact, even when I strongly disagreed, being appreciated).
In your effort to rapid reply and some how win an argument. You keep missing key points. Ive already said it.
Observe....
The game as it is, is fine. The folks here are actually very passionate about it. The responses to this topic alone more then indicate that. The problem most folks have is not the game but the direction it is going and the untapped potential it has. That most feel has simply been squandered and wasted.
You don't need to invent any other reasons for the games state, then that alone. So no, its not guilt or any thing else. Those who have been here for any length of time are well aware of the problems. And really dont need help from the new flood of new critics.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I agree!
OP: I want this game to be more like CoX...
Us: No thanks, we chose CO for a reason (whatever that reason might be)...
By all means, please, make your suggestions and state your preferences. But don't get huffy when folks here read the underlying message of 'Your game isn't as good as mine was'...
:cool:
edit: And to everyone replying in this thread, please read my sig. Mijjestic is wise... sometimes...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Awesome! you got the point exactly
If you think thats what I am doing you are even more ignorant than I had already begun to think.
Go back and re-read then
Fortunately despite 3 people attempting to get butthurt over the conversation, lokikin totally not getting it, and a couple shots of some slight animosity between fans of either one, this has been a great discussion so far imo, and constructive. If I can get CO to run, there are a few things I am now looking forward to seeing and trying out.
@canadascott... again AWESOME, you totally got the intent and that was a great post
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I am a CoX vet kid probably put more money into than you and by seeing what you wrote you started when Going Rouge started . People like yourself going all over forums in countless games is making people get sick of hearing about City of Heroes.
People like you are not helping the efforts to resurrect said game. I am sick of hearing about CoX now. Who really cares. I am sorry but people who played CoX for like 5 mins then bang on about its makes me sick.
Today I played WoW, ToR , DCUO and guess what I heard thats right kiddies some idiot going on about how better City of Heroes is.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So move on... dont get all emo nerdrage and butthurt. Considering you are one of 3 people being flaming asshats in what is otherwise a really good discussion thread, feel free to absent yourself from it.
To be honest when you say CoX looked better than CO it does sort of make you look like sloth from the Goonies. How is that in anyway a good discussion?
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
cry me a river little wanna-be troll
Kid seriously calling me a troll has no effect XD Ive been nagging TT for official forum troll tag for absolutely ages.
BUT the thing about myself Koda is I only troll the trolls anyone here will tell you and you are my new fave person so..
Lets be trolls together we should get married and have a troll family XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
We all agree - CoX did some stuff good, and CO needs more genuine attention, that's it.
Come on folks, lets try to be a little bit better than this... I mean, we've all had our moments, but seriously can't we all just......
...What the Fu...
No. No this is unacceptable this.. I don't even... you should.... and then.... I just.....
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
a pity there is not a 'report post' button, now to set off and find the ignore user feature. I only hope your stupidity will not kill off this thread its been a lot of fun so far.
yes please lets continue
OK OK ..I know ...Darkstalkers...its the Twilight of video games I am shamed
But Demetri was the man and you know it XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's all about Jon.
You don't get to dictate how people respond to your words, child. If you feel they're being misinterpreted, write them better next time.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
That right there is a biggie with regard to CoH vs. CO for me, for a couple of reasons.
First, for the life of the CoH game, I had 11 servers, initially with 8 character slots per server, then 12 as I bought expansions, etc. I had over 100 characters in CoH. As a subscriber in CO, I get 8. I can purchase more, but they are more expensive than character slots in CoH.
Second, I love alts, but what made it work better in CoH is that there was a greater abundance of story content so that not every character had to follow the same leveling path. I could avoid content I didn't like altogether because there was always something else to fill the gap. This became even stronger when Mission Architect was added. I even wrote my own missions.
CO has some good systems and *is* fun to play. No knocking it there (even though I enjoyed CoH more in general). Lack of storyline content and missions and severely limited number of up front character slots (in comparison) are the major drawbacks for me.
Now compared to DCUO, CO rocks. That's why it's my new superhero MMO. If they were to add the Foundry (which has far more storytelling functionality than MA did, at least in STO), it would go from "fun for now" to "fantastic."
I have to agree with all you have said here. But for me there never was CoH vs CO as I loved them both. To be truthful I like all the Cryptic games. For some reason I do tend to prefare the story telling in CoH when Cryptic was running it. I think STO has some of that old CoH Storytelling vibe to it.
A coherent plot in my opinion is all CO is missing.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
A professional can always spot a wanna-be...
And, contrary to your belief, I do indeed "get it". You have a valid point. It's the same point we've all had here for a long time; CO has a great deal of unfulfilled potential. But you've obscured it with a bunch of retorical "blah, blah, blah, and this is why I preferred CoX". Valid point; weak delivery. You'd have done a better job by just posting your 'tl;dr'.
But your subsequent responses have confirmed that you are indeed a BEAUTIFULLY UNIQUE SPARKLEPONY...
:rolleyes:
edit: And by the way, your glasses are thicker than mine, nah nah nah nah nah nah....
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
My god that was beautiful *snif*
The use of sparklepony just carries this posts narrative..masterful.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I disagree...
I think if you had posted your tl;dr, we would be at 7 pages of people agreeing with you...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
why not just make alerts cross-"faction"
it's the only thing people ever do anyways :cool:
Pretty much, this game is a good game, but it's doomed to mediocrity for me, personally. I've stated my reasons why. I don't get butthurt when someone tries to challenge them or change them. They're -my- reasons, dammit.
That said.....yes, if this game gets some dev love after the release of Neverwinter.....perhaps it can shine. I'll still hate the corgi car wheels, the uniface that seemingly despite how much people play with the sliders still looks like the same anime face......the oddly proportioned bodies that most people run around with....but otherwise? I -do- enjoy playing the game. Really. It's better than the other superhero game out there by a long shot. It's better than WoW(for me). It's better than the Secret World. (Well, not better looking, that's for sure! :P )
It's better than STO. (But still not better looking! ^_^) I mean...I tried STO for about a month. It's pretty, laws yes. But....wonky, too. But somehow...I just don't like playing it as much as this. And I GREW UP on Kirk and Spock and Scotty.
Still waiting for another superhero game to come out. (And no, Marvel's doesn't count!)
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You should try it sometime. Sometimes it feels sooooo good to be soooooo bad.
After all, there's a reason these guys are popular.
what other reason does one need?
Classic!
Narf.
Had a stalker in CoH. Did nothing for me. I just don't have that "feels so good to be so bad" desire. The way you feel about that is how I feel about being good. So, yeah. Still don't get it.
Well, I only have this to say to you...
"From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
All I'm saying is, every time you bring up Champions in this thread, you say the words hate, bad, cheesy, not quality, you're only giving this game a chance because there's nothing else out there (high praise!).
Maybe the words you should be rethinking were "This is not to say this game is worse," and "I'm not trashing this game," because, you're literally saying the game is worse, and trashing it, every time you post.
And, please, don't try to pin the whole "butthurt" thing on me. One, I'm just calling your posts as I see them, and two, if I was butthurt, I could remove all your posts and lock the thread.
All I'm saying is, you're contradicting yourself. I'm sure you mean what you say and all that, but, to anyone reading your posts, it reads as "There's so much wrong with this game, the other game was better, but I'm not trying to put this game down at all." Doesn't really work, does it?
Fancy worlds for four-hundred-year-old David Bowie.
Oh, and to add to why those guys are so popular, I do appreciate a good villain. A good, well written villain makes the hero. I understand the importance of a great villain. I just don't want to pretend I'm doing crimes.
There were less of us redside so we got to know each other better and had to play nice or we wouldn't have had anyone to play with. :biggrin:
My love for villainy covers that too.
Edit: Better link.
Tell me about it the Baroness seemed to know all about my toons on the CoX channel today. I thought I kept a low profile on CoX..but no she sees all. She gave me THE FEAR @__@"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
For most people, fantasy is for doing something they cannot or would not do. One of the biggest draws of most video games at all is routinely killing stuff and not have to pay a real-life consequence for such behavior.
Wasn't my draw particularly, but I see the appeal. Me, I just wanted to "tell stories" from the other side. It's too bad CoV turned out woefully inadequate for that. No scheming or planning, just going and beating up what you were told to. Plus CoV was too "raily". Not half the options of storyline that CoH had.
And with that.....
Its a cat vs dog thing.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And also laughing evilly MWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
on his POS machine from 2000? Are you freakin' kidding me?
The mininum system spec chip was released in 2007.
In such games when you are playing as a villain you are always more or less glorified minion. The only time when I had any kind of really villainous experience in the video games was when I was playing sandbox games, most often when playing strategy games. Using any kind of underhanded strategies to meet my own ends.
Villains aren't reactive.
They don't follow others plans and agendas, they are making their own.
And even when reacting for others, as they aren't bound by any rules of engagement, they're mostly making their own plots.
Playing someone like Dr Doom or Megatron would require a gameplay more akin to the strategy rather than mmo game.
I do not consider simply assaulting citizens, making a mere bank robbery, or occasional slaughter as being a real villain. It's a thug gameplay, not a villain gameplay.