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CoH/V vs CO and Why I chose the way I did
kodachikuno
Posts: 1,863 Arc User1
First this is just to possibly give the developers a point of view. If it generates productive discussion, so much the better.
When I first looked at the two games they both had their appeal, and similar system requirements. So I dug a bit into both, to see which I should try.
CO had kinda lame looking graphics that were pretty obviously oriented to try and capture that comic book look and feel. While I didnt care for it it wasn't a deal breaker. Then I noticed the Nemesis system and I thought that was REALLY COOL. I also ran across the facebook game(now dead) for champions and it gave a kinda cool way to look into the setting.
CoH/V had just dropped the Going Rogue expansion at this point, and BAM that scored MASSIVE points in my book. I can play villains?!! I can play dark brooding anti-heroes?!! I can make in game choices that determine how my character will evolve?!!!?!! ZOMG YES!!!!! Toss in graphics that were better than CO's and it was a lock down win for me.
So I bought Going Rogue, and dove in head first. My computer is an antique dinosaur from around 2000 but beats the "official" minimum system requirements for both games. I read the online comics for CoH/V and dug into both games a bit more and discovered the mutual ancestry. I noticed that CO had a free demo, so I figured Id give it a go... download, install, patch, start loading and crash.... -.- repeat 3 more times in case something was corrupted or whatever, reboot the system etc.
By this point Id cleared Praetoria on my main character, had 3 alts levelling and was beginning to explore the Rogue Isles. What do I see? In game user created missions?! The ability to make my own?! Aww hell yeah! I began screwing with it and realizing its potential, never looked back at CO again.
After several months of obsessive play I kinda burned out on CoH/V but Id keep coming back to it. Eventually I did let my sub lapse and some time later OOOO FREE TO PLAY!!! This was perfect I could hop on, play obsessively for a couple weeks, then wander off for a couple months till the bug bit again.
I happened to be in an 'off' phase and rather by blind luck found out about CoH/V closing on THE LAST DAY
So I logged in, enjoyed the time, levelled my last praetorian up and finished a quest chain before I got kicked off the servers.
SO I ended up back here... looking at CO again, and its f2p now as well, all good so far. No villains, no anti-heroes, no apparent plans for either... that sucks but ok, I never played heroes in CoH/V so I can go be a goody goody here... Download, install, patch, load....and crash before even getting to the menu -.- uninstall, reboot, d/l, install, patch load... crash...
Ok... tech support is usually utterly useless in games unless the issue is on their script but forums tend to be good for info. Dig in and what do I find?!
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=109259 the first page suggests that the official system requirements are utter BS and way too low to actually load OR play the game. So I ask for more info/help and get little to none, and half of what I did get translated out to "Upgrade your computer" -.- really.... if I could do that would I be asking for help with my existing system??
At this point Im very frustrated between NCsuck closing a kickass game, and the apparently falso info provided by cryptic on the minimum system requirements. Add in a sadly narrow gameplay(all heroes all the time), and the cheese graphics, and I find my desire to EVER try this game seriously waning. Even should I upgrade/buy a new computer, at this point Id be more likely to go give DCU a run since the gfx are stunning and I can play a villain.
I see CO has the potential to be everything CoH/V was, but I also see it apparently willfully refusing to live up to its potential. NCsuck's decision has given Cryptic a golden opportunity to cash in on the market. With the Loss of CoH/V there are only 3 super MMOs left, and Marvel's is just WAY off course imo(a pity too because I prefer marvel's universe to DC's). DCU allows villains but its also mired in the DC Universe(which is boon and bane for it). CO and CoH/V werent/arent stuck with decades of existing supers, history, lore, etc restricting what a new hero or villain can do or live up to. Both have their established "heavies" but the whole fictional setting was designed in such a way that those flagship characters blend well with the small fries and up and comers(ie the players). DC and Marvel have to warp their existing settings to provide something kinda similar. I really hope CO evolves into its full potential.
TL:DR
CoH/V was better for a buncha reasons, where CO seems to insist on not living up to its full potential. Right now it has a golden opportunity to evolve and step into the lead as THE supers MMO if it will but try.
When I first looked at the two games they both had their appeal, and similar system requirements. So I dug a bit into both, to see which I should try.
CO had kinda lame looking graphics that were pretty obviously oriented to try and capture that comic book look and feel. While I didnt care for it it wasn't a deal breaker. Then I noticed the Nemesis system and I thought that was REALLY COOL. I also ran across the facebook game(now dead) for champions and it gave a kinda cool way to look into the setting.
CoH/V had just dropped the Going Rogue expansion at this point, and BAM that scored MASSIVE points in my book. I can play villains?!! I can play dark brooding anti-heroes?!! I can make in game choices that determine how my character will evolve?!!!?!! ZOMG YES!!!!! Toss in graphics that were better than CO's and it was a lock down win for me.
So I bought Going Rogue, and dove in head first. My computer is an antique dinosaur from around 2000 but beats the "official" minimum system requirements for both games. I read the online comics for CoH/V and dug into both games a bit more and discovered the mutual ancestry. I noticed that CO had a free demo, so I figured Id give it a go... download, install, patch, start loading and crash.... -.- repeat 3 more times in case something was corrupted or whatever, reboot the system etc.
By this point Id cleared Praetoria on my main character, had 3 alts levelling and was beginning to explore the Rogue Isles. What do I see? In game user created missions?! The ability to make my own?! Aww hell yeah! I began screwing with it and realizing its potential, never looked back at CO again.
After several months of obsessive play I kinda burned out on CoH/V but Id keep coming back to it. Eventually I did let my sub lapse and some time later OOOO FREE TO PLAY!!! This was perfect I could hop on, play obsessively for a couple weeks, then wander off for a couple months till the bug bit again.
I happened to be in an 'off' phase and rather by blind luck found out about CoH/V closing on THE LAST DAY
So I logged in, enjoyed the time, levelled my last praetorian up and finished a quest chain before I got kicked off the servers.SO I ended up back here... looking at CO again, and its f2p now as well, all good so far. No villains, no anti-heroes, no apparent plans for either... that sucks but ok, I never played heroes in CoH/V so I can go be a goody goody here... Download, install, patch, load....and crash before even getting to the menu -.- uninstall, reboot, d/l, install, patch load... crash...
Ok... tech support is usually utterly useless in games unless the issue is on their script but forums tend to be good for info. Dig in and what do I find?!
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=109259 the first page suggests that the official system requirements are utter BS and way too low to actually load OR play the game. So I ask for more info/help and get little to none, and half of what I did get translated out to "Upgrade your computer" -.- really.... if I could do that would I be asking for help with my existing system??
At this point Im very frustrated between NCsuck closing a kickass game, and the apparently falso info provided by cryptic on the minimum system requirements. Add in a sadly narrow gameplay(all heroes all the time), and the cheese graphics, and I find my desire to EVER try this game seriously waning. Even should I upgrade/buy a new computer, at this point Id be more likely to go give DCU a run since the gfx are stunning and I can play a villain.
I see CO has the potential to be everything CoH/V was, but I also see it apparently willfully refusing to live up to its potential. NCsuck's decision has given Cryptic a golden opportunity to cash in on the market. With the Loss of CoH/V there are only 3 super MMOs left, and Marvel's is just WAY off course imo(a pity too because I prefer marvel's universe to DC's). DCU allows villains but its also mired in the DC Universe(which is boon and bane for it). CO and CoH/V werent/arent stuck with decades of existing supers, history, lore, etc restricting what a new hero or villain can do or live up to. Both have their established "heavies" but the whole fictional setting was designed in such a way that those flagship characters blend well with the small fries and up and comers(ie the players). DC and Marvel have to warp their existing settings to provide something kinda similar. I really hope CO evolves into its full potential.
TL:DR
CoH/V was better for a buncha reasons, where CO seems to insist on not living up to its full potential. Right now it has a golden opportunity to evolve and step into the lead as THE supers MMO if it will but try.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
When I first laid eyes on Champs, I fell in love with the stylized graphics. Realistic and generic graphics don't do it for me anymore. Granted, Champs doesn't exactly have a comic book style, but it's more to my liking. Though I wish they would do more texture work instead of lighting work on costumes, but I digress.
When I played Champs, wow it was such a departure from previous MMOs. I love the more action-oriented combat. Rarely have to wait for cooldowns, just GO GO GO all the time. CoH felt slow to me, even slower than WoW (lack of an auto attack probably added to that) and the fact that often, all my abilities were on cooldown, so I had to let the bad guys just pummel me in the face until I felt like punching again. Not too fun for me.
I agree that the game isn't living up to its full potential, but that's on the people pulling the purse strings. Still though, comparing how long it took me to get bored of CoH and how long I've been playing Champs, there's no contest, really.
Just wish we had MORE TIGHTS!!! :biggrin:
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
I found the graphics and gameplay of COH sufficiently unpleasant to keep me from enjoying the game. I tried the villain side to see if the novelty of playing the bad guy would compensate for the otherwise bad (for me) experience of the game. Playing an errand boy for real villains wasn't enough for me.
Hope things work out for you.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
perhaps its because I didnt jump in until the going rogue expansion, but I didnt get a lot of the 'errand boy' feel, for example I had this mission chain where I stumbled on a cloning facility built by some undergound nazi faction(literally underground), took it over for myself, found staff for it, got it operational and used it to batter a hero, then lost it when one of my scientists tried turning clones of me against me and the ensuing battle left the place demolished. Quite fun
I'm curious what you find restrictive? As far as powers, you can do almost anything you want in Champs.
I'm not totally trying to be contradicting here - I do recognize that City had some great stuff going for it, and by no means it was a bad game (what I expressed earlier were just my opinions). I do wish we had the level of content and storytelling that City had, for instance.
But to me, what Champs lacks in playable content, it makes up for in its characters. I love me some alts, and love playing all the different concepts and personalities I can come up with.
Graphics I will disagree on as well. Though CO's could use a bit more final detailing, they are still better than CO's. I've already done side by sides, the fact a lot of the original city was copy and paste to help create fast areas of the game, blended in with low res texturing from its original day only highlighted how badly they needed to go over the graphics, something Paragon refused to do. When you compared a new model character like Mother Mayhem to a classic character model, the difference was more than night and day.
There are a couple of things that I would want in general, namely the ability to have multiple chat boxes a feature that's pretty much standard to MMOs and I don't know why Cryptic forsook that basic feature. The combat system in Champions is far superior to, since I don't need a chain of abilities to do what I want to do, and I am not at the mercy of a turn based combat engine.
Finally, when it comes to creating me hero, I am not limited by the power system in that regard either. Yea, I may not have radiation blasts directly but it takes little imagination to change fire or even infernal into such attacks. But then again, a lot of the new power sets for City of were starting to repeat themselves there at the end. The time set was basically radiation combined with kinetics.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
They are still heroes but not all super boy/girl scout paladins even in DC and Marvel there are plenty of 'gray' characters that are anti-heroes. Punisher comes to mind first.
I find this odd, again because I didnt see this, between mayhem missions and ones like the chain I mentioned above, and the alignment missions I really didnt get a feel that it was the same stuff with a few altered words. As for the mission editor, I saw people in the building all the time, and even got a few good reviews for my pair of very simple, missions I wrote with a tongue in cheek shot at the terminator franchise.
Oh I see. Personally I don't understand why people want to play villains. I just don't get the drive behind that. But that said, we're hardly all super boys and girl scouts... tell that to all the evil murdering demon mecha undead antiheroes we have running around everywhere. :P
So evil infact that at lvl 6, they were thrown out of hell for being so powerful! This means only one thing...That the devil himself is lvl 4! :eek:
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I get tired of saving the world :P I want to blow it the hell up sometimes or conquer it and crush the masses under my boot while enjoying the tender ministrations of my harem^.^
Ive seen nothing in game that reflects anti-heroes for CO aside from personal choice to RP in game... Thats not my gig, if I wanna do RP Ill go hunt down a decent table top group
Id love to give this game more of a try, but like I said in the orig post, it refuses to load. Esp after all this praise for the combat system Id REALLY like to give that a go
I'm guessing he means archetypes, but that's really no more restrictive than the 'here's your two power tracks' that CoH had. To give it a fair comparison it would have to be CoH archetypes vs. CO's freeform, and CO blows it out of the water there.
As far as content goes, let's keep in mind that CO was on what, it's 8th year? Come back in 5 years and we'll see if the content is comparable. Sure CoH had 'more content', but it had time to develop that.
Sure there are things I'd love to see brought over from CoH. Emotes, some of the costume pieces, costume change emotes, auras.. now that the game is officially gone Cryptic shouldn't be afraid to use some of ideas over here.
See, it's the exact opposite for me. I really hate the uniface. I really hate the cartoony look to the art. (YES I KNOW YOU CAN TURN OFF THE OUTLINES. I HAVE. FOR SOME TIME NOW.)
Power color customization is good, but in comparison? CoX's pallette was twice as large as CO's. Alternate power animations.
Cars actually looked like cars. People actually looked like people, not anime cartoons. The world looked believable, not like a (bad) saturday morning cartoon.
However, left with the glaring hole in the superhero genre....it was up to me to decide where to go. Cue Steam. Both games free to play. Bonus. Started with DCUO, as I already knew I didn't like CO's graphic art style.
DCUO looks much better than CO. I actually can stand to look at the world and other characters!!
Story/gameplay? Ouch. No, I don't want to be Superman's "do-boy" or Joker's lackey. Character customization was...mediocre. Certainly better than The Secret World, which I also sampled for three months. In the end? I chose CO, because the gameplay itself was superior. That and I wasn't someone's gopher.
Now? I have come to the conclusion that CO is merely a stopgap until something better comes along. It is, and always will be (to me, personally) the redheaded stepchild of a far superior game. Ironically, it was only when I came to this realization that I was truly able to enjoy gameplay.
Before getting butthurt and defensive, CoX was superior for its QoL features, it's community, the overall content....the sheer size of options that Paragon Studios gave its customers/players.....tons of stuff. Not JUST any one thing. Bases, for instance. You could BUILD YOUR OWN, not purchase premade lots with only a few generic options. The difficulty adjuster. Want a challenge? Solo mobs meant for a team of eight four levels above your own. Or try to solo a giant monster. Or an AV. I could go on for pages. But no.
This is not to say this game is worse, just.....different. Not better either. At least not in my eyes. It does scratch the superhero itch, though. For now.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
so what do you say to the arguement/opinion that CO is so much newer than CoH/V and needs the time to catch up in content quality/volume? I see merit there but it strikes me that quality of existing content should be already high given how much less there is. But it seems MY CoV experiences are VASTLY different than those people had when CoV first dropped.
All I'm gonna say is that you really don't want to compare the content CoX received over its first three years to what we've gotten.
It's not a pretty comparison.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Not defensive, not buthurt. I just found COH to be an abominable game. For me. I am glad that others enjoyed it. None of its supposed QOL features meant anything, to me, as the game itself was completely unenjoyable. I am not trying to claim that CO is some great paragon (sorry couldnt resist) of how a superhero game should be. But it will have to be my go to for superhero action, for now, because there has not yet been anything better (for me).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Uhm. No.
That's fine. I'll say it this way. CO may have a more "advanced" graphics system. But "Better graphics" is still, ultimately, a statement of preference, rather than a factual discussion.
Two words tell you why they didn't make the interface more like CoH's.
CONSOLE PORT. All the time, labor and money wasted on that aborted console port. The need to condense it down to a singular window without the ability to split out separate chat windows all flow from this, due to the limits of the console platform. And here we are, three years down the road, still saddled with a stupid decision.
There are superficial similarities in ALL of the sets in CoH. Where it got REALLY different were in the secondary and tertiary effects. Time, Rad and Kin are superficially similar, but they did NOT play the same.
And repeat themselves?
Radiation Armor (Never got beyond initial development phase.)
Nature Affinity
Bio-Armor
Water Blast
Street Justice
Titan Weapons
Dual Pistols
This also neglects the fact that they were more or less consistently tweaking existing powersets as well.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Where else could you poison people, beat up defenseless old schoolteachers, kill whole worlds, drop nukes on people, steal gobs and gobs of money, kidnap and torture people for fun and profit, and tick off them most powerful guy in the campaign setting by killing his family members?
And NOT go to jail (or worse)?
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Well, let me put it this way: CoX's largest periods of activity were early on, and later in its lifetime.
There was a period where things sagged for a while, after ED, GDN and City of Villains. But in the same time CO has been around, they got a level cap raise, a number of new zones I can't remember off hand (Croa is one, I know that), redside expansion, Epic Archetypes, Auras (that thing we've been wanting for ages), a few new powersets, the newspaper/scanner missions and bank missions...
Quite a bit more I can't remember, I. E. a ton of costumes that I can't remember at all.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
That guy was evil. Like, burning orphanage schoolbooks evil. Literally.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Mayhem Missions. I get to rob a bank and get perks and bonuses for wanton reckless destruction and other crimes? It was the absolute best part of being a villain.
Except one little thing. You could (and often defaulted to) target civilians. BUT YOU COULDN'T DAMAGE THEM AT ALL.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
See, then what you're talking about is simply the storytelling. That's like being upset GTA requires stealing cars (bad example).
That's not a restriction on the character you can make, that's a restriction placed on the world you interact with, and regardless, you can just pretend you're a mercenary or something taking jobs for money, since that's what we actually do anyway.
Like 75% of the in-game population is very much not super boy/girl scout paladins unless they're a literal super boy/girl scout or paladin clone.
Regarding the graphics and DCUO - dude... you want cheese look no further. CO has it's bad moments but DCUO is blinding. I got a headache playing that game after an hour. It was brutal.
Combat was also kinda ****. EVERYTHING is a combo. Are you a Green Lantern that want's to fire a blast? You have to claw attack 3 times, then squirt bottle then finally, if you time it right, fire a blast (that's not an exact sequence, but that's how combat plays out) that your oponent can "dodge." It looks good, but it's boring as ****, the camera angles suck, and you're planted while you attack so you need a dodge button.
It's two dudes standing in place pressing Button 1, Button 1, Hold Button 1, Button 2, Dodge Button-When-Opponent-Presse-Button-2.
I find that almost as bad as other MMOs which require such little thought you can actually set up an entire attack chain to one button. What's the point of playing the game when you're not actually doing anything?
I agree with smackers tho, we need more texture work in our costume patterns. CoX did many things right, the biggest of which were attention to detail and respecting the material they were working with.
(also, one more vote against 'Spar's antihero generalization [which should not be taken as a vote for antihero content])
The problem is, by this point, CoH was ALREADY more comprehensive in the amount of content than CO is. And CO has a developer team I can count on one mitten hand. It also wasn't saddled
Here's the list of Issues released for CoH:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issues
And here's where the game was at the same point in its lifetime as CO is now:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_15
And only a few months from a MASSIVE QOL-focused issue.
CO shipped with JUST enough content to get from 1-40. Then, on Day 1, XP was nerfed so that they didn't even have that.
The situation's BETTER now. But the amount of unique things to do in this game are simply dwarfed by the amount of stuff to do that CoH had months/years earlier.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Yep. A guy so sadistically evil, he made demonic entities and deranged lunatics uncomfortable in his presence.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Actually, no. I'm not saying that CO needs the time to catch up....I'm saying it probably won't get the time to catch up. Nor will it get the developer attention to do so. (Most likely scenario)
Not hard facts but really. When was the last time something new came along here? And how long has it been F2P? Personally, I've seen a lot of posts and threads bemoaning the neglect this game is getting. To <b>the very end,</b> City of Heroes was in constant development. Even at the time when the dev team was...like six people. SIX. They STILL churned out something during that stint. The <b> WEEK BEFORE THE SHUTDOWN ANNOUNCEMENT,</b> Paragon studios announced new content release upcoming. What here? And as far as the quality of content....I don't count cheesy voice acting as quality. I turned off the game's sounds....about an hour in. I don't count the graphics as quality. So far, I haven't seen anything of lore in the game. It's up to me to go to an outside source to read up on game lore. That's not quality.
I'm giving this game a chance, simply because there's nothing else out there. Nothing. Being the only choice isn't quality, I fear. DCUO fumbled badly. Marvel's upcoming game is...tripe. This is it. For now. THAT is what I'm saying.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I never understood this either. Take my main tank. He was tough. REALLY tough. Like "Solo pretty much anything at +4x8" tough. But, toss enough damage at me often enough, or of an unresistable type, and sooner or later I'm smootching floor.
So why was he doing that when all the civilians in the city are UTTERLY INDESTRUCTIBLE?
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
See, I'm curious about this, but never got around to playing the Mayhem Missions - did you actually cause real environmental destruction, or was it selectable objects with life bars?
Because I remember one of the greatest joys of X-men Legends (the first one) was playing as Cyclops and grabbing Havok, and literally shoving him through a wall into a table and smashing the wall and table and everything in between with his body (I had an annoying little brother...).
The X-mansion and an Optic Rap.... err Rage*? Beautiful Wanton Destruction with Reckless Abandon.
And not much compares to Blast Corps.
You know what is not that?
Destroying 20 crates in Westside with no way to recoup energy between them. So "wanton destruction" I find difficult to believe.
Yes, I am well aware of the fact they were intended to go with a console as I outlined in other posts. This is still something that should have been addressed, regardless of intent.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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ouch... brutal... but I agree with you on marvel... that was such an epic fail I have to worry if the developers are smart enough to avoid walking into on-rushing traffic. DC may have fumbled in game play mechanics too from the sound of it but at least the recognized people wanted to and would play villains.
There was limited mayham possible in the environmental destruction side, not as much as youd want but more than I expected. Beyond mayhem missions there were villain specific story arcs, and alignment missions, both of which had a good amount of depth to em.
Long story short, it was selectable object pieces you could destroy and set objectives you had to unlock. There was no real dynamic part to it. You had your main objective, rob a bank, and a bunch of sides you could find by defeating a pack of special baddies (villaisn beating up villains basically), all in a set time limit. Doing certain things in a mayhem would grant you time bonuses, but most of the destructable things were basic items like cars, parking meters, mail boxes and trash cans. Buildings were untouchable, of course.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Yeah, that's what I figured. I actually played Villains for a bit, and I was completely blown away by the bank heist, but the thing I realized was that it was pretty much what 'Spar said - same mechanics.
What CoV did do was implement the same mechanics in clever new ways. Example -
Everyone always talks about the bank heist, and there's a reason for that - It was Brilliant.
But what was it, really? It was 1) Defeat all, 2) Click the glowie, 3) Survive the backup 4) Conditional time limit.
We have all those elements in CO, and they exist in pretty much every MMO out there. What CoV did was tell a story with it, which is really where they excelled. Paragon always had amazing story tellers.
But game design-wise? It was the same old stuff.
They busted out a diamond with the Bank Heist..... but what about everything else? Only thing anyone ever talks about is the Bank Heist and "mayhem" like it's an actual thing. It was not. It was survival with increased amount of breakables (I just youtubed it). Just like the bank heist. Recycled mechanics.
(note: I am not condemning it, I think it's genuinely brililant, and given a Foundry, I would love to take a crack at something like that one day, I just think we need to see it for what it is to really appreciate what went right and what went wrong in CoX, CO and DCUO)
Wake the hell up and realize that villainy is not limited to eating babies and dismembering small children. The classic smash and grab as well as villainous infighting is about as old as the genre itself, and reside had gobs of this stuff.
One of the earliest arcs in the game (and one of my more favored ones) involved punching the Lost in the face, stealing the Outbreak "drug" from them, and then dropping it off in Paragon City. Basically, making it possible that you're responsible for at least some of the mess that's seen in the hero side Tutorial.
The only thing I ever felt Redside was missing was a more sandbox-y gameplay element where you got to follow your own ambitions, but to make this work in a persistent MMO would be hard, so the lack of such is fully understandable.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
and THAT is exactly why I started this thread
Every other MMO has faction. You simply cant find one without it. Being factionless is the one thing that makes CO rather unique.
EVERYONE can join up and run missions. EVERYONE can be on the same team. EVERYONE can do anything together.
Why would you want to ruin that, just to add in a tiny bit of flavor? Congrats you're now a villain...go to this contact for a mission, and segregate yourself from half the game. Or worse, wait twice as long for an alert to pop while the system fills up with enough folks on the same faction with you.
I'm rather happy we are one of the few if not only place out there that does not force folks to pick teams before they even start the game.
Congrats on missing the point but yeah ok lets go ahead and address that, first its more than just "a tiny bit of flavor" second there was no 'wait twice as long' most of the time there was no wait at all, and if you were smart you watched chat for the numerous prompts of XXXX group forming, or started one for yourself.
Is the CO population REALLY that small?
edit:
and if it is, perhaps you might want to ask yourselves WHY
For someone claiming I should wake up you sure do live in a dream world. It's clearly evident you never actually read the finale to said missions. If you didn't turn the tides and stop punch clock villainy #3768 you were doing and did the right thing at the end, your plans were thwarted. The only thing making you remotely villainous was the mayhem missions, but by level 50 you had surely surpassed such a thing. And punching up bad guys is one thing, the fact that's pretty much all we did with precious little between. Beating up Longbow was just going from one questionable organization skin to the next as Longbow's tactics could be even more ludicrous than Arachnos at times.
And at the end, starting with Issue 10, any new mission created we were tag-a-longs to the hero agenda, in fact not even the text was edited to refer to where people came from, it was always being called a hero and from Paragon City. The Rogue Isles had precious little actually mentioned about them.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Well if we are going to use silly logic then obviously COH closed down because it had factions. Seeing as how not having villains is the one thing CO is doing different and its still around. :rolleyes:
Lets not confuse neglect and mismanagement for anything else.
I simply commented that what you feel is a lacking flaw. I see as a notable feature. It is all about perspective and opinion. Id rather play a game for the things I like, then to play a game moaning about the things I dont.
Alright, person who can't seem to understand the difference between heroes, villains and anti-heroes.
Come back when you learn the difference between intentions and actions.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
here you are just being absurd, its can be shown quite easily that not only was CoH/V still profitable, it made more money after going F2P and was developing new contend when NCsuck blindsided Paragon and players with the shutdown. Good going with being ignorant.
Not what you did at all but ok. Perhaps you missed the part in the first line of the original post where the intention was to give a perspective and possibly generate discussion? Noone is moaning about anything.
If you don't want to sound like you're trashing the game, you might rethink the words you use.
And speaking of the community (which is always opinion - you can't say "our community was better than yours!"), we've had an amazing community here. Sure it's changed a bit now, but a couple years back, it really was an amazing place to hang out. We've had a very friendly community for a long time, and I, personally, have never gotten so involved in a video game community as I have in Champs.
Exactly. Those are things I never want to do, even in a video game. I honestly don't understand why you'd want to.
See above.
Because not everyone is you and not everyone thinks and plays games the way you do or for the reasons you do.
You don't, out of personal preference? Great!
Looking down on someone who makes a different choice? Lame!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Because I'm an evil, heartless, cruel bastich. I could care less about being the "hero" and really just want to further my own selfish, cruel ambitions.
Also, no. I'm not "rethinking" my words. I said what I mean and I mean what I said. I'm not trashing this game, but I'm not praising it, either. It sits solidly in mediocrity for me.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
It wasn't always like that. People are moaning right now since most of the developers seem to have been temporarily moved to help the launch of Neverwinter. It's happened before to us with STO. But development of this game didn't stop when STO launched. Yes, we've been in a gradual downhill of content, but the guys who do work on the game are passionate about it and are really good at talking to the community about it.
You guys did come over at probably one of the game's lowest points because of Neverwinter, and we all think that sucks. When we first heard the news of the CoH shutdown, the whole community here was real sympathetic, and we pleaded the developers to do something awesome for when you guys came over.
Unfortunately, it seems that to PWE, this game's priority is too low even for that.
Please take the time to note the use of satire to counter your own silly implication...
With another silly implication. The best part was you taking it seriously. Thanks for that.
Half of the time, villains are fighting another villain group. From time to time, they fight a hero.
It has been said, that the issue with villains is that differently from heroes who are reactive to events( a disaster or villain rampage). Villains are active, they want something and act accordingly. The real implementation of villainy has to come from a sandbox game.
A funny thing was that most people on CoV were more polite and nice than the people in other games, and interesting thing was that CoV environment was nicer than CoH.