- the new already modded gear pieces you have on you are clean with no mods in them.
- when picking talents the scroll bar jumps back to the top of the page, regardless of your position within the page.
not sure if this was intended or not, but strafing run isn't getting affected by role bonuses or passives (tested with pestilence, which should boost it since it's fire dmg).
Simple, theme. Not everyone builds to be a min/max player.
Thats the issue though, Melee is nothing more than thematic, ranged beats melee in every aspect, making a passive all about how thats true is not a good idea.
Some random ideas for the Night Warrior Passive...
1) The Stealth granted from this power makes you undetectable no matter how great your perception is. Your stealth is only broken when you do damage to a target. Team members being in combat should not remove you from stealth either. If you can get stealth to work as such then you can justify not giving the passive any defenses.
2) When in Stealth any Click/Charged damaging attack you do has a +25% Crit Chance/ +25% Crit Severity. Does not function with Maintains.
3) While in combat, you will fall back into stealth if you have no damage inflicted to you for a certain amount of time. Rank 1= 12 Sec, Rank 2= 8 Sec, Rank 3= 5 Sec
3) Ranking this Passive up increases All Damage and the amount of time it takes to regain stealth in combat.
4) Should boost Melee Damage Primarily and Ranged Damage to a lesser degree.
If I may, my first thought at seeing most of these new Gadgeteer powers was "why aren't these in the Archer power set?" The exceptions being the Strafing Run and the Grapple Gun Pull. In essence, I think that the Archer set needs to be broadened from just Archery to any pre-gunpowder ranged weapon and/or gimmicked versions thereof. Definitely including boomerangs and bolos; but I'd also add lariats, spears, and nets to the mix. (Though I'm willing to make an exception for shuriken and smoke bombs, due to their close association with the predominantly melee ninja and the established precedence.)
...For now some old bugs from last powers update Drannic...
I'm happy that an underdeveloped power (Sneak) is getting some attention
But why are we adding a completley new mechanic to the game when there are sooooooo many current mechanics*cough* HOLDS, etc *cough* that need to be fixed first?
Some random ideas for the Night Warrior Passive...
1) The Stealth granted from this power makes you undetectable no matter how great your perception is. Your stealth is only broken when you do damage to a target. Team members being in combat should not remove you from stealth either. If you can get stealth to work as such then you can justify not giving the passive any defenses.
2) When in Stealth any Click/Charged damaging attack you do has a +25% Crit Chance/ +25% Crit Severity. Does not function with Maintains.
3) While in combat, you will fall back into stealth if you have no damage inflicted to you for a certain amount of time. Rank 1= 12 Sec, Rank 2= 8 Sec, Rank 3= 5 Sec
3) Ranking this Passive up increases All Damage and the amount of time it takes to regain stealth in combat.
4) Should boost Melee Damage Primarily and Ranged Damage to a lesser degree.
Most of this I agree with. I say make the stealth power that comes with this passive form that is NOT exclusive (like Quarry). As a toggle passive you can gain stacks of perception stealth passively every X seconds and click the power "stealth" to spend them. Then the damage bonus can stay on and the stacks can increase DEX to increase the passive's perception stealth.
So.. basically make it Quarry but instead of adding INT and EGO instead add Stealth Buff and DEX. Then spend these on "Stealth" the power. But make stealth the power function more like an active defense or active offense. You HAVE to remove the slow walking etcetera and let the player MOVE while in stealth.. even with travel powers.
I'm happy that an underdeveloped power (Sneak) is getting some attention
But why are we adding a completley new mechanic to the game when there are sooooooo many current mechanics*cough* HOLDS, etc *cough* that need to be fixed first?
I mean i'm happy for "Nightwarrior" but...
Fix holds and you go a long way to bringing back melee builds as a whole in PvP.
Also along this note.. fixing stealth does NOT do anything to fix the perception mechanic. I have 624 INT and still can't see through teleport.
The text bubbles is a known issue if i rember reading it right..
But with how sneak should work..it should be made so you can't be taken out of it when a party member gets in a battle with a mob..You should be able to whatever power it works with it..Is get extra crti damg. But alot of the new powers are pretty intresting. Also it will be nice that smoke bomb is useful other then just useing it for rp.
Strafe Run (whatever it's doing) cannot be used with Xbox 360 controller as it requires a mouse click. If this is to work like Orbital Cannon please update.. but the "anvil of dawn" advantage doesn't make much sense.
Bolas does not require a full charge to paralyze. Also please fix it so ALL paralyzes will work while moving as their range is too short to be used in PvP. At current this is the only power that does so. Also the "bolas" UI says unable to move or act.. is this working different than other paralyzes in some manner? Why different icon?
Distance on Gas and Fire Pellets is shorter than the power allows you to target and cast the power. Also if these are to help range melee hybrids please change the snare to another slow mechanic.
Also please provide energy and vine animations to the Grapple gun pull to match Vine and Energy swinging if the caster uses either of those travel powers.
Also smoke bomb lunge is not in martial arts, it's in gadgets.
- -
I would love to make a boomerang character but you'd need to give him a ranged energy builder. Can I suggest that these powers go to Archery instead of Gadgeteering purely for tree progression of said character. I was using strafe as a placeholder for what I hope will be a energy builder and still work with Quarry.
Here's the thing - do any other passives actually *need* some other power in order to work? Sure, some benefit greatly from an additional power, (like LR + BCR w/ RR), but you don't NEED one to make the other work.
1. Being knocked out of stealth when a teammate attacks needs to go... just because someone on my team attacks an enemy doesn't mean that my passive should be reduced in effectiveness.
2. Not being able to use a travel power and remain in stealth needs to go - otherwise why not just use a *better* passive and teleport? Perhaps they could implement a system where the amount of stealth the power grants is inversely proportional to your current speed.
3. The amount of stealth Nightwarrior grants needs to be good enough so a player who is solo can sneak up on all but a few key enemies - like master villains or high. Perhaps even allow them to sneak right up behind a master or super villain, but be able to be detected if they approach from the front.
4. If the intent of the power is that it grants a damage bonus when you attack from stealth, then said bonus must be significant enough to make up for the fact that they will be sub-par at all other times. The damage bonus should be commensurate with the per cent of the time they can actually use it.
Some notes:
Because you guys aren't building a whole stealth system here, (like how CoV Stalkers got hide, placate, and assassin's strike), then you need to build in a mechanic for a player using Nightwarrior to regain stealth in a reasonable amount of time. I like the idea someone suggested of ranking up the power reducing the time before you can regain stealth.
A few other thoughts:
I think this is the start of something very cool. Perhaps you could make slight modifications to existing powers, then copy-paste them over to MA for increased effectiveness. For instance, take evasive maneuvers from archery, reduce the distance of the reverse lunge, and add an advantage that ha a 100% chance to place you back into stealth. Reduce the cooldown of the power to only about 10 secs and reduce the stealth granted to about 2 secs.
Take smoke grenade, make it a PBAoE, and have it grant the user stealth. Reduce the duration of the smoke cloud and the perception debuff it applies to enemies that are in it.
Take ego placate, reduce the range to melee distance, have it place you into stealth, and give it an advantage that instead applies a damage resistance debuff to the target.
Except for the special effects and the lack of a "damage based on STR" Advantage, the Boomerang Cone is exactly what I had been hoping for an AoE shuriken power. Could we get this moved to the melee tree with those two changes?
Except for the special effects and the lack of a "damage based on STR" Advantage, the Boomerang Cone is exactly what I had been hoping for an AoE shuriken power. Could we get this moved to the melee tree with those two changes?
I haven't tested it out yet, but I could see it getting the advantage: Strong Arm for those Powers instead of being tagged as melee.
Thats the issue though, Melee is nothing more than thematic, ranged beats melee in every aspect, making a passive all about how thats true is not a good idea.
Tell that to my friend's Blade AT who can easily crit for 20k damage, and his gear sucks. It is not about the passive or gear, its about the player behind the toon. And the fact that pvp is broken and highly unbalanced. The game is balanced more around pve than pvp. PvE wise, ranged and melee are mostly neck to neck. A few melee builds suck and a few ranged builds suck. PvP wise though, ranged has the advantage. Ranged beats melee in every aspect....HA! I've seen plenty of melee toons far surpass ranged toons in combat pve wise.
As someone that is from the PvE side of the game, I want to see some buffs to certain powers sets in both ranged and melee (Munitions, Archery, Claws, just to name a few). I have toons of every powerset made, and more often than not, when I'm using a non-broken ranged toon vs a melee toon, they tend to do the same, sometimes my melee toons out perform my ranged toons.
Saying that ranged toons beat melee in every aspect is like saying that you can make a viable sonic build with the powers that are available, yet you won't be able to. Its also like saying that Archery is fine and doesn't need a buff. Maybe if you stopped playing only a few pvp builds and started to experience the game beyond just pvp, than maybe you'd realize that you have very little idea of how close in terms of strength ranged and melee actually are.
When Stalkers first came to COX the big question was "how will they contribute to teams?".
Initially, they didn't. What can be done to make melee assassination rewarding and practical in a team setting?
suggestions: Sneak needs to be able to be used in combat on a cooldown as long as you don't attack and don't take damage.
I suggest an advantage be added to evasive maneuvers that puts you in sneak mode.
Add 15-20ft AOE dmg debuff/snare around your target when using single target melee from sneak.
The moment after you do your assassination is when you are in the most danger. The damage debuff (like -10%) can help you survive the alpha strike from the mobs. This gives you "the element of surprise".
The Snare will give you time to move to a better position after your assassination and keep mobs close for ranged AOE. The dmg debuff/snare effect could be called "off guard" debuff.
Add a small +crit bonus against "off guard" mobs.
This passive has no defense and probably will have tones of agro after its stealth spike. The best way to survive this situation is with strong dps. A crit bonus on mobs affected by the "off guard" effect from stealth spiking would would be "caught off guard and easy to finish off".
This keeps Assassins from being one trick pony's and allows them to fallow through after a stealth strike. This also would make stealth striking more rewarding for the assassin friendly to the team hes on.
I haven't tested it out yet, but I could see it getting the advantage: Strong Arm for those Powers instead of being tagged as melee.
I figure that the Boomerang powers are going to be a popular mix among concept builders; whether or not either of them gets reskinned and moved to the Melee tree, I'd like to see Strong Arm added to them to facilitate this mixing.
1. Disentangle Sneak and Night Warrior. Sneak should be enhanced to the point that it's worth spending a power point on it, and Night Warrior should be adjusted so that it's useful even if you don't have Sneak. Night Warrior should enhance any power that involves stealth: not just Sneak, but also Smoke Bomb and Evasion. In PvE mode, have it reduce the rate that you accumulate aggro: the Night Warrior is not a Passive that you want to take if you intend to Tank. (Conversely, I could see healer types taking it so that they can stay out of the limelight while healing their teammates.) I don't know what benefit it should get in PvP, as I'm exclusively a PvEer.
2. +1 on the notion that you should not be forced out of stealth because a teammate initiates combat, especially if a big part of your combat strategy is the sneak attack. Taking it one step further, consider allowing the stealthed character to buff or heal teammates (or himself) without necessarily being forced out of stealth. Only attacks (i.e., powers targeting enemies) should guarantee the loss of stealth.
3. Sneak should not turn off your travel power; but without the Silent Running Advantage, it should halve your speed, the same way that Maintaining a Block does.
4. If stealth can't normally be activated while you still have Aggro, consider adding an Invisibility Advantage that voids that requirement, but imposes a cool-down time. That said, note that Smoke Bomb and Evasive Maneuvers can already be used to clear Aggro (and the latter has an Advantage that briefly puts you in stealth); as long as it's possible to activate Sneak while under the effects of the stealth granted by these powers, an Invisibility Advantage isn't strictly necessary.
When Stalkers first came to COX the big question was "how will they contribute to teams?".
Initially, they didn't. What can be done to make melee assassination rewarding and practical in a team setting?
suggestions: Sneak needs to be able to be used in combat on a cooldown as long as you don't attack and don't take damage.
I suggest an advantage be added to evasive maneuvers that puts you in sneak mode.
Add 15-20ft AOE dmg debuff/snare around your target when using single target melee from sneak.
The moment after you do your assassination is when you are in the most danger. The damage debuff (like -10%) can help you survive the alpha strike from the mobs. This gives you "the element of surprise".
The Snare will give you time to move to a better position after your assassination and keep mobs close for ranged AOE. The dmg debuff/snare effect could be called "off guard" debuff.
Add a small +crit bonus against "off guard" mobs.
This passive has no defense and probably will have tones of agro after its stealth spike. The best way to survive this situation is with strong dps. A crit bonus on mobs affected by the "off guard" effect from stealth spiking would would be "caught off guard and easy to finish off".
This keeps Assassins from being one trick pony's and allows them to fallow through after a stealth strike. This also would make stealth striking more rewarding for the assassin friendly to the team hes on.
I kind of like this "Off Guard" idea. What if we just used Fear, as it essentially does what your asking and would work well the whole NIGHT Warrior theme. Not sure of the Snare Effect as you could always use a power that has a snare effect on it anyway. Maybe make the Snare Effect an Adv? I dunno.
Also, left out one very important thing in my first post here. It's already been stated, but to reiterate please do get rid of the sneaking animation. Normal Movement is a must. Also, nobody is going to use this passive if you can't use your Travel Power with it.;)
How about when you go into combat mode, stealth is being evenly alternated every 5 seconds or so. So you basically do your alpha strike and then when in combat it takes a couple of seconds for you to automatically re-enter stealth again, but while in combat it only lasts a couple of seconds as well or until you use a power obviously.
And maybe add in an advantage that increases the alpha strike damage based on the number of times you popped in and out of stealth until combat ends.
1. Disentangle Sneak and Night Warrior. Sneak should be enhanced to the point that it's worth spending a power point on it, and Night Warrior should be adjusted so that it's useful even if you don't have Sneak. ...stealth); as long as it's possible to activate Sneak while under the effects of the stealth granted by these powers, an Invisibility Advantage isn't strictly necessary.
This in particular. What other Passive gives a complete equivalent power free of charge? None that I know of.
What if I just want to use sneak with a build because it fits my theme and Night Warrior doesnt? The answer isnt tying Sneak to a Passive, the answer IS making stealth powers effective, making Sneak effective, making Perception buffs effective to counter them, and making Night Warrior stand up by itself with it's intended synergy without making it another Shadow Form.
Sneak is the generic invisbility as currently demonstrated with FX. Sneak really isnt necessarily invisibility. There should be a number of stealth powers. Sneak (hide in shadows), Invisibility, Cloak, Phase.
Invisbility - Cant see 'em, but may know they are there because you can hear them, smell them, see their foot prints, whatever.
Cloak - Same sort of thing as Inviso-power, but more an "electronic camoflage.
Phase - Character is immaterial (not their opinions, just their corporeal body). They cant affect the in phase world, but it also cant affect them. No foot prints, no sound, no smell.
Take all three and you are really out of this world and for REAL stealthy.
Also, left out one very important thing in my first post here. It's already been stated, but to reiterate please do get rid of the sneaking animation. Normal Movement is a must. Also, nobody is going to use this passive if you can't use your Travel Power with it.;)
I disagree, sort of. I'm going off of memory here, so I could be wrong; but the Sneak animation is also used when Blocking. It's a valid animation to use any time the character takes an action that imposes reduced speed on oneself. So I'm fine with the animation. But note that Blocking does not cancel one's Travel Power; and in those cases where the Block doesn't affect the character's speed (Elusive Monk, Laser Knight, and Phalanx Defense), the animation is not used. The same should be true of Sneak: it should affect your mobility and alter your movement animation in precisely the same way the Block does, unless you have Silent Running in which case you should have full mobility and an unmodified movement animation.
This in particular. What other Passive gives a complete equivalent power free of charge? None that I know of.
What if I just want to use sneak with a build because it fits my theme and Night Warrior doesnt? The answer isnt tying Sneak to a Passive, the answer IS making stealth powers effective, making Sneak effective, making Perception buffs effective to counter them, and making Night Warrior stand up by itself with it's intended synergy without making it another Shadow Form.
Last I checked, Sneak is still a power that you can take independent of Night Warrior. It's just that nobody wants to take it, because there are far better things to spend the power point on. That's the main reason why it currently makes sense to bundle it with Night Warrior: you're getting what you pay for when they give it to you for free.
Sneak is the generic invisbility as currently demonstrated with FX. Sneak really isnt necessarily invisibility. There should be a number of stealth powers. Sneak (hide in shadows), Invisibility, Cloak, Phase.
Invisbility - Cant see 'em, but may know they are there because you can hear them, smell them, see their foot prints, whatever.
Cloak - Same sort of thing as Inviso-power, but more an "electronic camoflage.
Phase - Character is immaterial (not their opinions, just their corporeal body). They cant affect the in phase world, but it also cant affect them. No foot prints, no sound, no smell.
Take all three and you are really out of this world and for REAL stealthy.
I can get behind a Phase power: it's effectively Tunneling without the speed boost and with a different special effect. And I can see having some distinction between Sneak and Invisibility, although I'd personally be more inclined to make Invisibility an Advantaged version of Sneak; mechanics-wise, Invisibility would do everything that Sneak does, but better. And I don't see how Cloak could be made different enough from Invisibility to be worth being a separate power.
OTOH, I wouldn't mind a Shroud power, operating much like the Ice Storm does but with Darkness-style damage and side-effects instead of the Ice-themed stuff: it has always been rather peculiar that Darkness doesn't have any powers that obscure vision. And Celestial could benefit from a Flash attack that Uses blinding light to Disorient the target(s?), giving it a bit more Crowd Control potential.
But that's veering way off-course for the topic of this thread. For now, let's concentrate on finding ways to allow Night Warrior and Sneak to each stand on its own, and not worry about introducing even more new powers.
OH NO!!!!111!!1 NOW GENTLEMAN CRUSH NEEDS TO WRITE A WHOLE NEW TUTORIAL.
Sorry, caps.
Come on now, that's a bit out of order. It was pretty obvious he paid his 5 year old neighbour to write that guide... Poor kid, now HE has to write a WHOLE NEW TUTORIAL on top of his homework...
So...Night Warrior...Sneak...ehem, Why would I take Night Warrior over Way of the Warrior if I'm melee? It gives me more melee damage and I can do better with stealth from Evasive Manuvers and Smoke Grenade, infact those are the only two ways to actually have any amount of stealth.
2. Give the gas pellet power an advantage that placates enemies or perhaps has a chance to wipe your threat...
If they're going to play with a Placate mechanic....then the devs should make Ego Placate as effective as the Escape Artist advantage on Smoke Grenade while they're at it.
How did you manage to erase all mods from the entire game while adding batman powers?
Why..?
I don't, whatever...
How did we jump back to working or expanding on Gadgeteering and Unarmed when Celestial was next in the review rotation? Answer: behind the scene decisions by the owners of the game.
I played around with Night Warrior last night. Playing it at night gives it a night warrior sort of feel. Otherwise, it's just an average offensive passive with a still largely disfunctional stealth power.
Quarry is more effective. Or Way of the Warrior for melee. Throw sneak on the build and for a sniper it's just about as stealthy...for the opening shot. Sneak and Night Warrior Sneak need a mechanism to allow us to disappear relocate and set up the next shot.
For Celestial, see my request for a blindness debuff and my Celestial block recommendation.
Celst needs a type of sheild that prouply would have an ability when the healer gets hit a chance on this the damg will change into healing and bounch back harming the mob and causeing the healer to heal. If that makes sense but..
With sneak i would like to see it with the stalker from cox.
Just to add one tiny extra tid bit on what I'd like to see from this new Night Warrior Passive. I'd REALLY like to give it a better looking FX that goes along with the theme of falling into the shadows of the night to vanish from sight.
So I recommend the Stealth FX(Only corresponding with this Passive) get replaced with the old "Elder Worm Humidity Dome ' Phased out FX that came with that particular piece of gear. Seeing how that piece of gear was removed from the game this FX isn't being used anywhere else now, so it's up for grabs.
I'd like to see the eye glow portion of this FX removed though. Just use the phased out FX with a shadowy outlining. Doesn't HAVE to be colorable, a dark shadowy outline might be best.
If they're going to play with a Placate mechanic....then the devs should make Ego Placate as effective as the Escape Artist advantage on Smoke Grenade while they're at it.
^ I'm glad somebody finally said it. In total agreement with this statement
I decided to try night warrior in real missions (whiteout, open world MI, "the plot thickens" pre Vibora arc). I was not impressed.
My build was basic melee assassin/ninja build.
PVE Stealth Test Build:
Dragons claws R3: from sneak
Imbue: To make sneak dragon claws crit
Ego Storm w/ MM advantage: to cover after a stealth strike
Sword Cyclone R3: To quickly mob up in aoe
Evasive Maneuvers adv:
Sigils of Radiant Sanctuary:
Unbreakable:
MSA: SS: INT/DEX/PRE
PVE Stealth Concerns: NPC perception buffs from high difficulty settings make sneak useless in instances with the difficulty up.
It is impossible to assassinate on Elite because of the perception buff all mobs get.
I had similar results on very hard.
Comic series NPCs that come from cut scenes and that ambush are impervious to sneak.
This means that you pretty much cant use sneak for Comic series even solo.
I was mostly locked out of sneak in whiteout
Assassination is inconsistent against normal open world mobs and power house mobs.
Assassination works better from behind on normal mobs but you can still be detected from behind (if you take too long).
All of this means that not only is sneak only usable at the beginning of some fights, Sneak is useless in long story driven/cut scene heavy content and when the difficulty slider is up.
There is little reward relative to time spent when Stealth Striking.
Add to this the fact that you will progress faster overall if just replacing night warrior with WOTW and charging straight in (with better defenses).
There should be a visual cue that lets you know that you have successfully completed a stealth strike.
In my 30s an imbued dragon claw from sneak was about 7k. Some times i would get 5k. It seems like a mob can agro at the last moment when using a stealth strike and nulify your bonus. It would be easier to tell if this was the problem if there was a way to know i successfully struck from sneak.
A visual cue would make the whole thing feel more rewarding and defined.
As it stands now, no one will be-able to stealth strike on teams and may be discouraged from trying to.
Stealth striking is slow, unrewarding and dangerous as it stands. Most teams wont be patient enough to slow the pace of a mission/ Alert just so that some one can slowly sneak over to the toughest NPC in the mob stealth strike and then face plant 2 seconds later. This brings me to my next point:
Silent running advantage needs to be as fast as unenhanced acrobatics in order to keep up with teams.
If you want to try to use sneak and stealth striking in a team setting ( especially a fast paced one like CO) your going to have to be able to move into position to do your job quickly so that your team doesn't have to wait for you or feel slowed down my you.
EDIT: To keep this from turning into a travel power, make it like the run power that you get as a prisoner in resistance that can only be used in short intervals.
Comments
Seems a little odd, though I hope to do it tomorrow with a group and test Flag Speed.
Simple, theme. Not everyone builds to be a min/max player.
- when picking talents the scroll bar jumps back to the top of the page, regardless of your position within the page.
not sure if this was intended or not, but strafing run isn't getting affected by role bonuses or passives (tested with pestilence, which should boost it since it's fire dmg).
This also happens with Innate Characteristics and Power Points window, it seems.
Fixed for ya!
Thats the issue though, Melee is nothing more than thematic, ranged beats melee in every aspect, making a passive all about how thats true is not a good idea.
American holiday celebrating the declaration of independence from Great Britain.
YES! Been dreaming of a power like this for a while.
A new event is also pretty great even if it is just some dailies.
1) The Stealth granted from this power makes you undetectable no matter how great your perception is. Your stealth is only broken when you do damage to a target. Team members being in combat should not remove you from stealth either. If you can get stealth to work as such then you can justify not giving the passive any defenses.
2) When in Stealth any Click/Charged damaging attack you do has a +25% Crit Chance/ +25% Crit Severity. Does not function with Maintains.
3) While in combat, you will fall back into stealth if you have no damage inflicted to you for a certain amount of time. Rank 1= 12 Sec, Rank 2= 8 Sec, Rank 3= 5 Sec
3) Ranking this Passive up increases All Damage and the amount of time it takes to regain stealth in combat.
4) Should boost Melee Damage Primarily and Ranged Damage to a lesser degree.
Hard to test when you can't make characters. I dose not just jump, it goes to the same slots every time.
But why are we adding a completley new mechanic to the game when there are sooooooo many current mechanics *cough* HOLDS, etc *cough* that need to be fixed first?
I mean i'm happy for "Nightwarrior" but...
Most of this I agree with. I say make the stealth power that comes with this passive form that is NOT exclusive (like Quarry). As a toggle passive you can gain stacks of perception stealth passively every X seconds and click the power "stealth" to spend them. Then the damage bonus can stay on and the stacks can increase DEX to increase the passive's perception stealth.
So.. basically make it Quarry but instead of adding INT and EGO instead add Stealth Buff and DEX. Then spend these on "Stealth" the power. But make stealth the power function more like an active defense or active offense. You HAVE to remove the slow walking etcetera and let the player MOVE while in stealth.. even with travel powers.
Fix holds and you go a long way to bringing back melee builds as a whole in PvP.
Also along this note.. fixing stealth does NOT do anything to fix the perception mechanic. I have 624 INT and still can't see through teleport.
But with how sneak should work..it should be made so you can't be taken out of it when a party member gets in a battle with a mob..You should be able to whatever power it works with it..Is get extra crti damg. But alot of the new powers are pretty intresting. Also it will be nice that smoke bomb is useful other then just useing it for rp.
Bolas does not require a full charge to paralyze. Also please fix it so ALL paralyzes will work while moving as their range is too short to be used in PvP. At current this is the only power that does so. Also the "bolas" UI says unable to move or act.. is this working different than other paralyzes in some manner? Why different icon?
Distance on Gas and Fire Pellets is shorter than the power allows you to target and cast the power. Also if these are to help range melee hybrids please change the snare to another slow mechanic.
Also please provide energy and vine animations to the Grapple gun pull to match Vine and Energy swinging if the caster uses either of those travel powers.
Also smoke bomb lunge is not in martial arts, it's in gadgets.
- -
I would love to make a boomerang character but you'd need to give him a ranged energy builder. Can I suggest that these powers go to Archery instead of Gadgeteering purely for tree progression of said character. I was using strafe as a placeholder for what I hope will be a energy builder and still work with Quarry.
No. Its Batman.
1. Being knocked out of stealth when a teammate attacks needs to go... just because someone on my team attacks an enemy doesn't mean that my passive should be reduced in effectiveness.
2. Not being able to use a travel power and remain in stealth needs to go - otherwise why not just use a *better* passive and teleport? Perhaps they could implement a system where the amount of stealth the power grants is inversely proportional to your current speed.
3. The amount of stealth Nightwarrior grants needs to be good enough so a player who is solo can sneak up on all but a few key enemies - like master villains or high. Perhaps even allow them to sneak right up behind a master or super villain, but be able to be detected if they approach from the front.
4. If the intent of the power is that it grants a damage bonus when you attack from stealth, then said bonus must be significant enough to make up for the fact that they will be sub-par at all other times. The damage bonus should be commensurate with the per cent of the time they can actually use it.
Some notes:
Because you guys aren't building a whole stealth system here, (like how CoV Stalkers got hide, placate, and assassin's strike), then you need to build in a mechanic for a player using Nightwarrior to regain stealth in a reasonable amount of time. I like the idea someone suggested of ranking up the power reducing the time before you can regain stealth.
A few other thoughts:
I think this is the start of something very cool. Perhaps you could make slight modifications to existing powers, then copy-paste them over to MA for increased effectiveness. For instance, take evasive maneuvers from archery, reduce the distance of the reverse lunge, and add an advantage that ha a 100% chance to place you back into stealth. Reduce the cooldown of the power to only about 10 secs and reduce the stealth granted to about 2 secs.
Take smoke grenade, make it a PBAoE, and have it grant the user stealth. Reduce the duration of the smoke cloud and the perception debuff it applies to enemies that are in it.
Take ego placate, reduce the range to melee distance, have it place you into stealth, and give it an advantage that instead applies a damage resistance debuff to the target.
I haven't tested it out yet, but I could see it getting the advantage: Strong Arm for those Powers instead of being tagged as melee.
Tell that to my friend's Blade AT who can easily crit for 20k damage, and his gear sucks. It is not about the passive or gear, its about the player behind the toon. And the fact that pvp is broken and highly unbalanced. The game is balanced more around pve than pvp. PvE wise, ranged and melee are mostly neck to neck. A few melee builds suck and a few ranged builds suck. PvP wise though, ranged has the advantage. Ranged beats melee in every aspect....HA! I've seen plenty of melee toons far surpass ranged toons in combat pve wise.
As someone that is from the PvE side of the game, I want to see some buffs to certain powers sets in both ranged and melee (Munitions, Archery, Claws, just to name a few). I have toons of every powerset made, and more often than not, when I'm using a non-broken ranged toon vs a melee toon, they tend to do the same, sometimes my melee toons out perform my ranged toons.
Saying that ranged toons beat melee in every aspect is like saying that you can make a viable sonic build with the powers that are available, yet you won't be able to. Its also like saying that Archery is fine and doesn't need a buff. Maybe if you stopped playing only a few pvp builds and started to experience the game beyond just pvp, than maybe you'd realize that you have very little idea of how close in terms of strength ranged and melee actually are.
I just see CO taking 1 step forward, and 2 steps back each time something is added :eek:
I'd just like a stable foundation to play on, not a house of cards
(highlighted to indicate THAT is another matter entirely, not that i agree/disagree, just acknowledge it)
Initially, they didn't. What can be done to make melee assassination rewarding and practical in a team setting?
suggestions:
Sneak needs to be able to be used in combat on a cooldown as long as you don't attack and don't take damage.
I suggest an advantage be added to evasive maneuvers that puts you in sneak mode.
Add 15-20ft AOE dmg debuff/snare around your target when using single target melee from sneak.
The moment after you do your assassination is when you are in the most danger. The damage debuff (like -10%) can help you survive the alpha strike from the mobs. This gives you "the element of surprise".
The Snare will give you time to move to a better position after your assassination and keep mobs close for ranged AOE.
The dmg debuff/snare effect could be called "off guard" debuff.
Add a small +crit bonus against "off guard" mobs.
This passive has no defense and probably will have tones of agro after its stealth spike. The best way to survive this situation is with strong dps. A crit bonus on mobs affected by the "off guard" effect from stealth spiking would would be "caught off guard and easy to finish off".
This keeps Assassins from being one trick pony's and allows them to fallow through after a stealth strike. This also would make stealth striking more rewarding for the assassin friendly to the team hes on.
all of this for me
1. Disentangle Sneak and Night Warrior. Sneak should be enhanced to the point that it's worth spending a power point on it, and Night Warrior should be adjusted so that it's useful even if you don't have Sneak. Night Warrior should enhance any power that involves stealth: not just Sneak, but also Smoke Bomb and Evasion. In PvE mode, have it reduce the rate that you accumulate aggro: the Night Warrior is not a Passive that you want to take if you intend to Tank. (Conversely, I could see healer types taking it so that they can stay out of the limelight while healing their teammates.) I don't know what benefit it should get in PvP, as I'm exclusively a PvEer.
2. +1 on the notion that you should not be forced out of stealth because a teammate initiates combat, especially if a big part of your combat strategy is the sneak attack. Taking it one step further, consider allowing the stealthed character to buff or heal teammates (or himself) without necessarily being forced out of stealth. Only attacks (i.e., powers targeting enemies) should guarantee the loss of stealth.
3. Sneak should not turn off your travel power; but without the Silent Running Advantage, it should halve your speed, the same way that Maintaining a Block does.
4. If stealth can't normally be activated while you still have Aggro, consider adding an Invisibility Advantage that voids that requirement, but imposes a cool-down time. That said, note that Smoke Bomb and Evasive Maneuvers can already be used to clear Aggro (and the latter has an Advantage that briefly puts you in stealth); as long as it's possible to activate Sneak while under the effects of the stealth granted by these powers, an Invisibility Advantage isn't strictly necessary.
I kind of like this "Off Guard" idea. What if we just used Fear, as it essentially does what your asking and would work well the whole NIGHT Warrior theme. Not sure of the Snare Effect as you could always use a power that has a snare effect on it anyway. Maybe make the Snare Effect an Adv? I dunno.
Also, left out one very important thing in my first post here. It's already been stated, but to reiterate please do get rid of the sneaking animation. Normal Movement is a must. Also, nobody is going to use this passive if you can't use your Travel Power with it.;)
How about when you go into combat mode, stealth is being evenly alternated every 5 seconds or so. So you basically do your alpha strike and then when in combat it takes a couple of seconds for you to automatically re-enter stealth again, but while in combat it only lasts a couple of seconds as well or until you use a power obviously.
And maybe add in an advantage that increases the alpha strike damage based on the number of times you popped in and out of stealth until combat ends.
This in particular. What other Passive gives a complete equivalent power free of charge? None that I know of.
What if I just want to use sneak with a build because it fits my theme and Night Warrior doesnt? The answer isnt tying Sneak to a Passive, the answer IS making stealth powers effective, making Sneak effective, making Perception buffs effective to counter them, and making Night Warrior stand up by itself with it's intended synergy without making it another Shadow Form.
Sneak is the generic invisbility as currently demonstrated with FX. Sneak really isnt necessarily invisibility. There should be a number of stealth powers. Sneak (hide in shadows), Invisibility, Cloak, Phase.
Invisbility - Cant see 'em, but may know they are there because you can hear them, smell them, see their foot prints, whatever.
Cloak - Same sort of thing as Inviso-power, but more an "electronic camoflage.
Phase - Character is immaterial (not their opinions, just their corporeal body). They cant affect the in phase world, but it also cant affect them. No foot prints, no sound, no smell.
Take all three and you are really out of this world and for REAL stealthy.
I can get behind a Phase power: it's effectively Tunneling without the speed boost and with a different special effect. And I can see having some distinction between Sneak and Invisibility, although I'd personally be more inclined to make Invisibility an Advantaged version of Sneak; mechanics-wise, Invisibility would do everything that Sneak does, but better. And I don't see how Cloak could be made different enough from Invisibility to be worth being a separate power.
OTOH, I wouldn't mind a Shroud power, operating much like the Ice Storm does but with Darkness-style damage and side-effects instead of the Ice-themed stuff: it has always been rather peculiar that Darkness doesn't have any powers that obscure vision. And Celestial could benefit from a Flash attack that Uses blinding light to Disorient the target(s?), giving it a bit more Crowd Control potential.
But that's veering way off-course for the topic of this thread. For now, let's concentrate on finding ways to allow Night Warrior and Sneak to each stand on its own, and not worry about introducing even more new powers.
Why..?
I don't, whatever...
BUG: Taser Arrow also does zero damage, stated as such in the tooltip.
Sorry, caps.
Come on now, that's a bit out of order. It was pretty obvious he paid his 5 year old neighbour to write that guide... Poor kid, now HE has to write a WHOLE NEW TUTORIAL on top of his homework...
Shame on this PTS patch. Shame on you!!
If they're going to play with a Placate mechanic....then the devs should make Ego Placate as effective as the Escape Artist advantage on Smoke Grenade while they're at it.
How did we jump back to working or expanding on Gadgeteering and Unarmed when Celestial was next in the review rotation? Answer: behind the scene decisions by the owners of the game.
@Dataweaver
I played around with Night Warrior last night. Playing it at night gives it a night warrior sort of feel. Otherwise, it's just an average offensive passive with a still largely disfunctional stealth power.
Quarry is more effective. Or Way of the Warrior for melee. Throw sneak on the build and for a sniper it's just about as stealthy...for the opening shot. Sneak and Night Warrior Sneak need a mechanism to allow us to disappear relocate and set up the next shot.
For Celestial, see my request for a blindness debuff and my Celestial block recommendation.
With sneak i would like to see it with the stalker from cox.
So I recommend the Stealth FX(Only corresponding with this Passive) get replaced with the old "Elder Worm Humidity Dome ' Phased out FX that came with that particular piece of gear. Seeing how that piece of gear was removed from the game this FX isn't being used anywhere else now, so it's up for grabs.
I'd like to see the eye glow portion of this FX removed though. Just use the phased out FX with a shadowy outlining. Doesn't HAVE to be colorable, a dark shadowy outline might be best.
Thx in advance:D
..you and me both... all those questions as to what I should take for Rook... and probably new alt.. yeeeah... g-g-gone.....
^ I'm glad somebody finally said it. In total agreement with this statement
My build was basic melee assassin/ninja build.
PVE Stealth Test Build:
Dragons claws R3: from sneak
Imbue: To make sneak dragon claws crit
Ego Storm w/ MM advantage: to cover after a stealth strike
Sword Cyclone R3: To quickly mob up in aoe
Evasive Maneuvers adv:
Sigils of Radiant Sanctuary:
Unbreakable:
MSA:
SS: INT/DEX/PRE
PVE Stealth Concerns:
NPC perception buffs from high difficulty settings make sneak useless in instances with the difficulty up.
It is impossible to assassinate on Elite because of the perception buff all mobs get.
I had similar results on very hard.
Comic series NPCs that come from cut scenes and that ambush are impervious to sneak.
This means that you pretty much cant use sneak for Comic series even solo.
I was mostly locked out of sneak in whiteout
Assassination is inconsistent against normal open world mobs and power house mobs.
Assassination works better from behind on normal mobs but you can still be detected from behind (if you take too long).
All of this means that not only is sneak only usable at the beginning of some fights, Sneak is useless in long story driven/cut scene heavy content and when the difficulty slider is up.
There is little reward relative to time spent when Stealth Striking.
Add to this the fact that you will progress faster overall if just replacing night warrior with WOTW and charging straight in (with better defenses).
There should be a visual cue that lets you know that you have successfully completed a stealth strike.
In my 30s an imbued dragon claw from sneak was about 7k. Some times i would get 5k. It seems like a mob can agro at the last moment when using a stealth strike and nulify your bonus. It would be easier to tell if this was the problem if there was a way to know i successfully struck from sneak.
A visual cue would make the whole thing feel more rewarding and defined.
As it stands now, no one will be-able to stealth strike on teams and may be discouraged from trying to.
Stealth striking is slow, unrewarding and dangerous as it stands. Most teams wont be patient enough to slow the pace of a mission/ Alert just so that some one can slowly sneak over to the toughest NPC in the mob stealth strike and then face plant 2 seconds later. This brings me to my next point:
Silent running advantage needs to be as fast as unenhanced acrobatics in order to keep up with teams.
If you want to try to use sneak and stealth striking in a team setting ( especially a fast paced one like CO) your going to have to be able to move into position to do your job quickly so that your team doesn't have to wait for you or feel slowed down my you.
EDIT:
To keep this from turning into a travel power, make it like the run power that you get as a prisoner in resistance that can only be used in short intervals.