My solution keeps the Recon Circuit's healing just as effective as ever while blocking. However, my solution also allows you to use clicky powers while Recon Circuits is running, as well as use any attacks from any powerset. That makes Recon Circuits much more universally useful. It might not be the heal that you'd choose on every build, but it should be a useful heal for some builds. For example, any non-Celestial build that currently uses Conviction for healing (IE: not for MSA trigger) should benefit from my take on Recon Circuits.
It may be more universally useful, but it's nerfed to garbage for a PA toggle build that wants to run Minigun and Concussor Beams while self-healing, which is the situation that it is currently optimal for.
It may be more universally useful, but it's nerfed to garbage for a PA toggle build that wants to run Minigun and Concussor Beams while self-healing, which is the situation that it is currently optimal for.
You are significantly over dramatizing my recommended change. While Recon Circuits would heal at 25% of what it does on Test now while you attack, any time you block the heal would be exactly the same. And in exchange for this you could use your energy builder and any clicky power you want without interruption. Or activate a second heal if needed. That's a fair tradeoff, not nerfed to garbage. I consider the ability to use clickies and energy builders to be far more useful than the extra healing that's given up while not blocking.
Also, you are showing how incredibly limited Recon Circuit as it stands today is. Just about the only build that this power works for is one where the main attacks are 1) a hand slot power and 2) a should slot power. Any other build (which has to be about 98% of builds in the game) has limited or absolutely no use from Recon Circuits. That's because Recon Circuits disables every other power in the game while active, and unlike other PA attacks it cannot be easily disabled by holding block.
My take on Recon Circuits is that it is a lousy power even for Power Armor builds as-is. It's frustrating to use and very limited, just like Eye Beams has been for years. There was a legitimate point to that power too, but it was such a limited use-case that it was the laughing-stock of the set. Recon Circuits is made of the same cloth. It's going to get players killed in combat and it doesn't even work well with the new archetype that it's presented with.
You are significantly over dramatizing my recommended change. While Recon Circuits would heal at 25% of what it does on Test now while you attack, any time you block the heal would be exactly the same. And in exchange for this you could use your energy builder and any clicky power you want without interruption. Or activate a second heal if needed. That's a fair tradeoff, not nerfed to garbage. I consider the ability to use clickies and energy builders to be far more useful than the extra healing that's given up while not blocking.
Also, you are showing how incredibly limited Recon Circuit as it stands today is. Just about the only build that this power works for is one where the main attacks are 1) a hand slot power and 2) a should slot power. Any other build (which has to be about 98% of builds in the game) has limited or absolutely no use from Recon Circuits. That's because Recon Circuits disables every other power in the game while active, and unlike other PA attacks it cannot be easily disabled by holding block.
My take on Recon Circuits is that it is a lousy power even for Power Armor builds as-is. It's frustrating to use and very limited, just like Eye Beams has been for years. There was a legitimate point to that power too, but it was such a limited use-case that it was the laughing-stock of the set. Recon Circuits is made of the same cloth. It's going to get players killed in combat and it doesn't even work well with the new archetype that it's presented with.
I concur. The problem with toggles has always been the inability to click heals and defenses while firing off toggles. The time to heal would be while blocking. Pulsewave's suggestion is sound.
You are significantly over dramatizing my recommended change. While Recon Circuits would heal at 25% of what it does on Test now while you attack, any time you block the heal would be exactly the same. And in exchange for this you could use your energy builder and any clicky power you want without interruption. Or activate a second heal if needed. That's a fair tradeoff, not nerfed to garbage. I consider the ability to use clickies and energy builders to be far more useful than the extra healing that's given up while not blocking.
Also, you are showing how incredibly limited Recon Circuit as it stands today is. Just about the only build that this power works for is one where the main attacks are 1) a hand slot power and 2) a should slot power. Any other build (which has to be about 98% of builds in the game) has limited or absolutely no use from Recon Circuits. That's because Recon Circuits disables every other power in the game while active, and unlike other PA attacks it cannot be easily disabled by holding block.
My take on Recon Circuits is that it is a lousy power even for Power Armor builds as-is. It's frustrating to use and very limited, just like Eye Beams has been for years. There was a legitimate point to that power too, but it was such a limited use-case that it was the laughing-stock of the set. Recon Circuits is made of the same cloth. It's going to get players killed in combat and it doesn't even work well with the new archetype that it's presented with.
Let me make myself clear: I don't care if there are powers in this game that are useful in very narrow builds. Obviously that is something you don't like to see. We are never going to see eye-to-eye on that.
The way I see it, you are designing the-best-heal-for-turtling. In a fast-paced game like CO, I hate that idea. I assume you've played a few Alerts and run some Lairs in your years in CO, is having to hold block for 8 seconds ever fun?
But I'm generally confused as to who your proposed power is designed for. A tank will probably have some dodge and be better off with Resurgent Reiki. DPSers and healers will be better off with Conviction or Empathic Healing.
Hmmmmm I just realized that there are no Forms that buff ranged dmg scaling with DEX like the MA forms for melee. I mean ther is one that scales on STR for melee and one that scales on INT/EGO for ranged but there are none that scale off of DEX for ranged while melee has I belive 4.
Let me make myself clear: I don't care if there are powers in this game that are useful in very narrow builds. Obviously that is something you don't like to see. We are never going to see eye-to-eye on that.
The way I see it, you are designing the-best-heal-for-turtling. In a fast-paced game like CO, I hate that idea. I assume you've played a few Alerts and run some Lairs in your years in CO, is having to hold block for 8 seconds ever fun?
But I'm generally confused as to who your proposed power is designed for. A tank will probably have some dodge and be better off with Resurgent Reiki. DPSers and healers will be better off with Conviction or Empathic Healing.
Todd the overlying point that pulse is trying to make is that as Reconstruction circuits stands right now, nobody is going to take it outside of novelty purposes. It barely functions as it stands right now and it's clunkyness is quite the frustration. What he wants and i support the general idea of the fact that he wants a "Functional Heal."
Is it really that big of a deal that players want to get out of the generic 3 heals with something different, generic 3 = bionic shield BCR and empathic. The power should have a good tradeoff vs. other healing powers not be something that nobody can ever use. As it currently stands now it can only work with ONE powerset and only a few specific moves from that powerset. That to me doesn't feel creative or fun at all and generally contradicts the freedom of choice that champions online gives. Not saying i am behind the idea that pulse has proposed but it's better than what reconstruction circuits does now is all i am saying.
edit
Also Nightrod, just use form of the tempest for Dex builds, it procs off of crit and it works in ranged Dex builds.
Let me make myself clear: I don't care if there are powers in this game that are useful in very narrow builds. Obviously that is something you don't like to see. We are never going to see eye-to-eye on that.
The way I see it, you are designing the-best-heal-for-turtling. In a fast-paced game like CO, I hate that idea. I assume you've played a few Alerts and run some Lairs in your years in CO, is having to hold block for 8 seconds ever fun?
But I'm generally confused as to who your proposed power is designed for. A tank will probably have some dodge and be better off with Resurgent Reiki. DPSers and healers will be better off with Conviction or Empathic Healing.
My goal is simply to adjust Recon Circuits so that it is more globally useful, while keeping this power unique and balanced with other healing powers. This has nothing to do with turtling or blocking, and neither is necessary with my recommended changes to Recon Circuits.
If Recon Circuits is well-balanced then some of your point would be right. A tank that spent resources increasing his dodge chance may be better with Bountiful Chi and the 3 point Reiki advantage. But a tank that does not invest any resources in dodge would be far better off with my modified version of Recon Circuits. Not all tanks should be forced to stack dodge, and my Recon Circuits would support that very well.
Also, many DPS builds would benefit from my change to Recon Circuits since they will spend less energy on healing over the course of a fight with Recon Circuits vs Conviction. They would also benefit from spending less time executing their heal power than having to spam Conviction every few seconds. And they don't have to waste time holding down a maintain like you do with many other heals.
I don't want to argue this out too much more with you, but I am surprised at how unrealistic your view seems on this. A self-heal over time that's high while blocking and a fairly low while not blocking is something that many different builds could use. You seem stuck on the idea that not getting the maximum amount of healing stinks. My experience in this game suggests I hit block when I'm under heavy fire for almost any builds. Being able to run a low heal over time that suddenly quadruples in power when I hit block would be worthwhile on many builds. That's very useful when I need it most, without making the heal overpowered.
Todd the overlying point that pulse is trying to make is that as Reconstruction circuits stands right now, nobody is going to take it outside of novelty purposes. It barely functions as it stands right now and it's clunkyness is quite the frustration. What he wants and i support the general idea of the fact that he wants a "Functional Heal."
And we've already asked about letting you activate other powers while toggles are running, even if you then have to turn them back on. I'm cool with that. What I'm not cool with is making a heal that is mostly useful when you turtle.
Tying blocking to healing is annoying, and it supplants the role of Active Defenses. Consider this: the only time in the game when you need to block is when you are taking damage, obviously. We already have two heals that work better when you are taking damage: Resurgent Reiki and Bionic Shielding. Pulsewave's suggestion basically ties RC into the same role: heals that work better when you are being attacked. Now, one might argue that the difference here is that you don't have to be under attack to block and receive the full healing, but do you really want a power whose functionality is such that it makes is useful for you to block when no one is attacking you?!
Being able to run a low heal over time that suddenly quadruples in power when I hit block would be worthwhile on many builds.
Let me rephrase that from my perspective: being able to run a heal that suddenly loses 75% of its effectiveness when you do anything would be annoying on many builds.
I think if you really wanted to keep the 'theme' of the rec circuits, but make it useful for all power sets.. what you'd need to do would be something like... reduce it's power cost by about 30%, and make it give you a 30% penalty for all damage (and I mean base damage) while it's running. And make it a regular toggle that can be active at any time, with any other powers.
You'd then get more or less the same results with PA toggles by running chest weapons along with rec circuits and other weapons - and outside PA set, you would get pretty close to same behaviour. You pay some extra energy, and take a serious hit to your DPS, but get a heal running on the background while still being able to attack.
Numbers might need to be adjusted, but I think 30% would be pretty close.
Either way, this would retain the intended tactical choice - healing, traded for reduced DPS.
Edit:
Or, possibly leave the energy cost as it is, but make it so that running rec circuits reduces the cost of PA toggles by 15-20% while it's active. What I'm after here is.. PA is already very energy intense set, so forcing you to run another chest toggle to compensate for the damage penalty would be too much. The energy reduction could be this power's 'synergy' with PA set.
Chest Beam is a great attack whether or not you use other toggles. Plasma Beam and Concussion Beam are also useful without other toggles. You don't NEED to match the attacks up to make them useful. They just work better with each other, just like every other framework. You can use them alone, but you miss out on the synergy that way. All the powersets do that.
Certain PA attack can work outside of the framework . Chest Beam, it's not different from any other charge attack. But Consussor Beams or Mini-Gun? Those are limiting in that you can't activate other abilities while they are running. The the same argument you are making.
(Note: And I'll admit defeat is the latter isn't true. I haven't tried any builds using mini-gun or Micro-munitions outside of pure PA builds. I honestly haven't tested it. )
Hmmmmm I just realized that there are no Forms that buff ranged dmg scaling with DEX like the MA forms for melee. I mean ther is one that scales on STR for melee and one that scales on INT/EGO for ranged but there are none that scale off of DEX for ranged while melee has I belive 4.
Am I to assume that ppl don't care bout Ranged Dex builds? I think it would only be fair to have some Forms that scale off of Dex and work like the MA Forms (which gain stacks based on crits/dodge/charge) yet buff Ranged dmg and not melee. Just so that DEX Ranged is as viable as DEX Melee :cool:
Why all of the effort of trying to expand RC beyond it's niche? I acknowledge your arguments. Why not just request another heal that fits your requirements, and leave Reconstruction Circuits as is*? I kno you won't agree but I find RC eminently useful for a PA build. I'm strongly leaning towards respec'ing into into my PA character's building.
Why all of the effort of trying to expand RC beyond it's niche? I acknowledge your arguments. Why not just request another heal that fits your requirements, and leave Reconstruction Circuits as is*? I kno you won't agree but I find RC eminently useful for a PA build. I'm strongly leaning towards respec'ing into into my PA character's building.
*Whatever "as is" winds up being on release.
Because COs basic concept is to be able to go out of framework to build what you want, not limit power choices. There are no classes in CO.
SOLUTION: Have Recon Circuits heal the user at the current level ONLY while blocking. Reduce Recon Circuit's healing rate to 25% of normal when not blocking. Allow Recon Circuits to trigger the Phalanx Defense System advantage of Energy Shield, as it currently does. Remove Recon Circuits from the toggle system completely so that it doesnt prevent any other powers from working. (Note: The current level is +245 health every 1 s for 8 s. Total of 1960 health over 8 seconds for my lvl 40 with 10 PRE. Reducing healing to 25% while not blocking makes this a less effective heal than default BCR, and Recon Circuits uses much more energy.)
I like My idea better, but i obviously don't have a neutral perspective..
ANY change to RC is better than nothing, but i don't like the idea of a heal based around blocking. I (personally) only tend to block for short burst and if im blocking for a long time, im usaly about to die or waiting for a healer to save me.
I also am concerned that i wont be able to get much use out of this in pvp because i cant block in pvp.
The issue here is the players cannot handle nor do they understand how every single power in the game works. The only exception to the following are specific powers under the Weapons Systems. When you are using a power, you cannot activate any other power or your end builder at the same time. This has always been fact. Key word there in activate.
If I'm charging a cascade, I either fire it or cancel it in order to do anything else. The same applies to RC. You must toggle it off order to use most anything else. This is normal. The problem is players are very unused to toggles in the form of anything but PA damage powers. They are the only powers in the game that behave that way.
There has never been a toggle heal before, and you guys apparently cant deal with that. RC is unique in that it is the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking. You can't use your end builder with it on? You don't say?! Welcome to how the entire combat system works.
It works in every build you simply have to remember you cant just let go off the key or button to shut it off. All you have to do is understand how PA toggles work, and know this one heals you instead of doing damage. If toggles aren't your thing there are plenty of other heals in the game to choose from.
RC is nice because now if I want I finally have a heal I can use in tandem with my Toggles without having to shut them all of. It even works well with chest beam despite sharing the same slot due to CB being a charged power. I can fire a CB and immediately toggle RC on. If I toggle on RC and then use CB it shuts it off for me with me having to de-toggle it which is also nice.
The issue here is the players cannot handle nor do they understand how every single power in the game works. The only exception to the following are specific powers under the Weapons Systems. When you are using a power, you cannot activate any other power or your end builder at the same time. This has always been fact. Key word there in activate.
If I'm charging a cascade, I either fire it or cancel it in order to do anything else. The same applies to RC. You must toggle it off order to use most anything else. This is normal. The problem is players are very unused to toggles in the form of anything but PA damage powers. They are the only powers in the game that behave that way.
There has never been a toggle heal before, and you guys apparently cant deal with that. RC is unique in that it is the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking. You can't use your end builder with it on? You don't say?! Welcome to how the entire combat system works.
It works in every build you simply have to remember you cant just let go off the key or button to shut it off. All you have to do is understand how PA toggles work, and know this one heals you instead of doing damage. If toggles aren't your thing there are plenty of other heals in the game to choose from.
Well there's BCR which heals you while you can still atk and build energy and Bionic would also fall into the category of heals that allow you to atk/build energy.
Because COs basic concept is to be able to go out of framework to build what you want, not limit power choices. There are no classes in CO.
Power Armor isn't a class. It's a quirky framework that has abilities that synergies very well within the framework. Most of the abilities don't work well outside of the framework. But that doesn't mean that demolish the framework to make one desired ability outside of the framework.
Power Armor is about a really different style of play from the rest of the game. Let's just call Power Armor framework the exception totally open power selection paradigm of CO. That doesn't make it a bad thing in my opinion.
Well there's BCR which heals you while you can still atk and build energy and Bionic would also fall into the category of heals that allow you to atk/build energy.
That's the key difference I and others have been trying to point out though. Those are click powers that provide a status effect, the effect being a heal over time. They're not like toggles.
PA toggles are basically like maintains that maintain themselves without you having to hold down the button. When such a toggle is active, no other power maybe used, just like a normal maintain -- except for PA toggles in other slots. Reconstruction Circuits, then, is exactly like that. It's basically a maintained heal, except it allows you to combine it with select other powers (PA toggles).
People keep arguing from the notion that RC is a "click then it puts an 8-second HoT on me" power like BCR. That's not what it is. It is a "turn on this power for 8 seconds" power like Minigun.
As far as block not disabling RC, this is indeed a bug. It would appear that blocking won't cancel said toggle IF it is the only toggle you have active. If, for example, I toggle both it and conccusor beams on block cancels both just fine. For me it is easier to simply de-toggle if I have only one active. I save block-cancelling for multiple-toggles. That's where it shines. Either way the bug should still be addressed.
That's the key difference I and others have been trying to point out though. Those are click powers that provide a status effect, the effect being a heal over time. They're not like toggles.
PA toggles are basically like maintains that maintain themselves without you having to hold down the button. When such a toggle is active, no other power maybe used, just like a normal maintain -- except for PA toggles in other slots. Reconstruction Circuits, then, is exactly like that. It's basically a maintained heal, except it allows you to combine it with select other powers (PA toggles).
People keep arguing from the notion that RC is a "click then it puts an 8-second HoT on me" power like BCR. That's not what it is. It is a "turn on this power for 8 seconds" power like Minigun.
Precisely. PA framework has is own quirky paradigm for the way it work. That paradigm prevents full interoperatbility with powers from other framework. Reconstruction Circuits is a self-heal power that's designed for PA's quirky paradigm.
Precisely. PA framework has is own quirky paradigm for the way it work. That paradigm prevents full interoperatbility with powers from other framework. Reconstruction Circuits is a self-heal power that's designed for PA's quirky paradigm.
Yes! This exactly!
There are 4 kinds of powers in the game. Charge, Click, Maintain, and according to this thread everyone's favorite Toggle. If you want any business with PA's weapons system you better learn to get along with toggles cause you aint got a choice. Just be glad toggles are unique only to certain powers in this framework and your end builder if you choose to set it as such.
To the above indeed as well. BCR vs RR is a dead argument. One is a click while the other is a Toggle. The end. Remember what I said earlier. Other than PA toggles you cannot nor have you ever been able to activate more than one power at the same time.
-A damage superstat (Dex, Str or Ego or especially an attack-appropriate combination),
-A form (Concentration, MA Forms, etc)
-An offensive passive
-Has access to appropriate Spec trees,
-Is in an offensive role (Ranged/Melee damage roles)
-Can afford to cycle their best attacks
...a freeform using the same attackscannot catch them in damage output.*
*Unless the AT dies and the Freeform does not
The only options the freeform has to compete/win in damage are:
-If the AT has bad spec choices available
-The AT is horribly geared
-The Freeform leans heavily on Imbue for a higher spike (but less sustained damage)
-The Freeform makes use of greater survival options to not die when the AT would die
Even stuff like taking Dark Transfusion or rotating Active Offense isn't going to close the gap, because those get lumped into the same damage layer for diminishing returns.
Now, realistically, this doesn't affect all ATs. The ones that fit the above prereqs and have good attacks are:
- The Blade (Reaper's Embrace and Reaper's Caress spam)
- The Fist (Burning Chi Fist, Dragon's Uppercut)
- The Marksman (Straight Shot, Explosive Arrow, Storm of Arrows)
- The Soldier (Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle)
- The Unleashed (Blade Tempest, Dragon's Wrath)
- The Squall (Typhoon, Hurricane)
- The Tempest (Lightning Arc, Gigabolt)
- The Disciple (Ego Weaponry, Ego Blade Annihilation)
Two honorable mentions (due to being saddled with Rec major superstat, but both still have Ego):
Note: Impulse isn't on here because lolImpulse (It's in Guardian and gets one shot with Cascade without a way to spike it up), Void isn't on here because it's stuck in Guardian, the Tanks/Healers/not-offensive-passive-users aren't on here because, and Devastator isn't on here because Enrage/Aggressor just took a three-hour reaming with the nerf bat.
With the introduction of the new forms and cost-reduction gear, most of the above won't have that many problems with energy management, either. Marksman probably will, but the rest, not so much.
All but Marksman and Scourge have at least the option of an Active Offense, as well. (Not sure how this changes with the new power additions).
If you're using any of the attacks listed above, you're better off making an AT version of the character if you want to maximize their damage output.
Survival, ease of use and ease of leveling are not factored in here.
I say this as someone who just finished leveling a Blade to 40. Almost no one could reliably pull aggro off me in Alerts. It was scary.
That's the key difference I and others have been trying to point out though. Those are click powers that provide a status effect, the effect being a heal over time. They're not like toggles.
PA toggles are basically like maintains that maintain themselves without you having to hold down the button. When such a toggle is active, no other power maybe used, just like a normal maintain -- except for PA toggles in other slots. Reconstruction Circuits, then, is exactly like that. It's basically a maintained heal, except it allows you to combine it with select other powers (PA toggles).
People keep arguing from the notion that RC is a "click then it puts an 8-second HoT on me" power like BCR. That's not what it is. It is a "turn on this power for 8 seconds" power like Minigun.
The way I see RC is not the way you see it. Nevertheless, they should not have made RC a Chest slot but a Utility slot (New). I don't like the idea that I have to sacrifice my Chest Slot for RC.
The issue here is the players cannot handle nor do they understand how every single power in the game works. The only exception to the following are specific powers under the Weapons Systems. When you are using a power, you cannot activate any other power or your end builder at the same time. This has always been fact. Key word there in activate.
No, you misunderstand. The issue is that the power can only be used for one build inside the PA framework. The issue is that if your not a toggle PA user then this power sucks.
There has never been a toggle heal before, and you guys apparently cant deal with that. .
B.S.. My suggested improvement of the RC maintains its toggle functionality. People don't dislike RC "because its a toggle and we cant handle it:cool:"
We dislike it because if you don't use it for one specific build, it sucks.
Once again your oversimplifying and generalizing the issue. your rationalizing your emotions instead of addressing the issue directly.
Stop rite there.....
If by "works with every build" you mean it functions without any bugs, then ok. But RC is not useful for every build. RC only "works" (ie useful) for one build. Saying RC is a competitive or even viable option for any non PA toggle build is just ridiculous.
ITT players continue to be butt-hurt over RC, and I am loving every minute of it.
Please keep complaining about it. It's highly amusing to me. It would be great to see the power go live as is just for the extra whining.
Still if everyone combines their tears and cries hard enough you might get it changed. When your priorities regarding all of PA involve complaining about a single new power for many posts on end, sometihng has gone wrong.
Deal with it. These threads should not be about your personal issues with the powers. You speak for no one but yourself, and you do it objectively or not at all lest you risk bias and conflicting opinions.
I want the power to be like X! No I like it fine as is! You're both wrong it ought to be like Y! You can still find bugs and give feedback without turning it into a personal vendetta to have a perform changed to your exact needs.
ITT players continue to be butt-hurt over RC, and I am loving every minute of it.
Please keep complaining about it. It's highly amusing to me. It would be great to see the power go live as is just for the extra whining.
Still if everyone combines their tears and cries hard enough you might get it changed. When your priorities regarding all of PA involve complaining about a single new power for many posts on end, sometihng has gone wrong.
Deal with it. These threads should not be about your personal issues with the powers. You speak for no one but yourself, and you do it objectively or not at all lest you risk bias and conflicting opinions.
I want the power to be like X! No I like it fine as is! You're both wrong it ought to be like Y! You can still find bugs and give feedback without turning it into a personal vendetta to have a perform changed to your exact needs.
I hadn't noticed any one crying or getting personal in this thread.
/shrug.
Also im sure the feedback in above quote will be very useful to the devs.:)
The way I see RC is not the way you see it. Nevertheless, they should not have made RC a Chest slot but a Utility slot (New). I don't like the idea that I have to sacrifice my Chest Slot for RC.
If RC was in a new Utility slot, it would basically be "use it alongside any PA toggles" and would presumably have to be considerably weaker because activating it would not impact your DPS much other than energy cost.
Especially since there are no other utility slot powers.
Having to choose between full DPS or DPS+healing is part of the essence of the power...
If RC was in a new Utility slot, it would basically be "use it alongside any PA toggles" and would presumably have to be considerably weaker because activating it would not impact your DPS much other than energy cost.
Especially since there are no other utility slot powers.
Having to choose between full DPS or DPS+healing is part of the essence of the power...
Let's think a bit ahead in the future shall we? What do you presume the future of PA is? More toggles and more toggle slots that's what it will be. Since they go with the TOGGLE mechanic that's what follows as such there will have to be dedicated slot powers like Utility Slots, Offense Slots and Defense Slots. There is only so much you can do with only 3 slots especially atk slots. The slots I mentioned above will help make PA more customizable.
Alternatively they could make a 4th toggle have a greater penalty. Anyhow my point was that I did not like it taking over the Chest slot. I wish it would be tagged as Chest/Hand/Shoulder (for now) so if I want to use the Hand slot and the Chest slot I can. Similarly with Chest Slot and Shoulder slot. I dislike that it's a static choice not dynamic.
I like My idea better, but i obviously don't have a neutral perspective..
ANY change to RC is better than nothing, but i don't like the idea of a heal based around blocking. I (personally) only tend to block for short burst and if im blocking for a long time, im usaly about to die or waiting for a healer to save me.
I also am concerned that i wont be able to get much use out of this in pvp because i cant block in pvp.
Empathic Healing is a maintain. That's a huge difference from a power that you execute once an dont worry about for 8 seconds. My take was to give players an option that is fire and forget self-heal that allows you to attack while healing. But if you want to play defense, it would be the best defense in the game by default.
The issue here is the players cannot handle nor do they understand how every single power in the game works. The only exception to the following are specific powers under the Weapons Systems. When you are using a power, you cannot activate any other power or your end builder at the same time. This has always been fact. Key word there in activate.
If I'm charging a cascade, I either fire it or cancel it in order to do anything else. The same applies to RC. You must toggle it off order to use most anything else. This is normal. The problem is players are very unused to toggles in the form of anything but PA damage powers. They are the only powers in the game that behave that way.
There has never been a toggle heal before, and you guys apparently cant deal with that. RC is unique in that it is the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking. You can't use your end builder with it on? You don't say?! Welcome to how the entire combat system works.
It works in every build you All you have to do is understand how PA toggles work, and know this one heals you instead of doing damage. If toggles aren't your thing there are plenty of other heals in the game to choose from.
RC is nice because now if I want I finally have a heal I can use in tandem with my Toggles without having to shut them all of. It even works well with chest beam despite sharing the same slot due to CB being a charged power. I can fire a CB and immediately toggle RC on. If I toggle on RC and then use CB it shuts it off for me with me having to de-toggle it which is also nice.
Do you really think that it's easy to work with Recon Circuits overall?
1) It disables all energy builders
2) It disables all attacks that arent PA hand slot or PA shoulder slot
3) It disables all active defenses that you normally save for when you need a defensive boost.
Suggesting that Recon Circuits is "the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking." shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the basic of all the heals in Champions Online. Bionic Shielding and Bountiful Chi Resurgence are staple heals that work while you keep attacking. Please take a look at how those heal work and think about what I've proposed again.
Power Armor isn't a class. It's a quirky framework that has abilities that synergies very well within the framework. Most of the abilities don't work well outside of the framework. But that doesn't mean that demolish the framework to make one desired ability outside of the framework.
Power Armor is about a really different style of play from the rest of the game. Let's just call Power Armor framework the exception totally open power selection paradigm of CO. That doesn't make it a bad thing in my opinion.
Didnt I already say there are no classes in CO? Yes. I am absolutely sure I did.
I didn't say anything in my post about demolishing a framework.
The basis for CO power picks is for players to be able to pick the powers they want across frameworks. Whether they synergize well is up to the player. This is an undisputed fact. I don't see your argument. Pulse waves suggestion is highly valid. RC would fit many character concepts. Do we limit convictioni to only Celestial characters? No. Do we limit Bionic Shielding or any other heal to characters of the framework for that power? No.
It is not a quirky framework. It is a framework with a unique mechanic, toggles, that some people are either uncomfortable with or who don't want to deal with. I have enjoyed PA from the beginning. The number one complaint about PA is the inability to access out of framework heals, buffs, Active Offense or Defenses, etc. without first shutting off running toggles. We have talked about this in the PA suggestion thread for more than a year. The answer does not absolutely HAVE to be a toggle used only while shooting other toggles. Other ideas can be considered and should be considered if they will serve the game better. I agree with Pulsewave's suggestion because RC could easily fit other concepts. It is a smart use of power development resources. Every set does not HAVE to have one or two of every type of power.
Empathic Healing is a maintain. That's a huge difference from a power that you execute once an dont worry about for 8 seconds. My take was to give players an option that is fire and forget self-heal that allows you to attack while healing. But if you want to play defense, it would be the best defense in the game by default.
Maybe you could elaborate on this "huge difference" because i don't understand.
From my perspective, the main functional difference between EH and my proposed RC (on a non toggle build) would be that you hold down a button to maintain EH but RC would "maintain" it self. In both cases, you are unable to do any thing else but heal.
Are you saying my proposal would be better than EH?
Are you saying it would be overpowered?
Are you saying that this would not be a useful power?
What are the consequences of this "huge difference" that makes it a bad idea?
Maybe you could elaborate on this "huge difference" because i don't understand.
From my perspective, the main functional difference between EH and my proposed RC (on a non toggle build) would be that you hold down a button to maintain EH but RC would "maintain" it self. In both cases, you are unable to do any thing else but heal.
Are you saying my proposal would be better than EH?
Are you saying it would be overpowered?
Are you saying that this would not be a useful power?
What are the consequences of this "huge difference" that makes it a bad idea?
While you use a maintained heal you cannot attack. You can click a heal over time or a toggle and then use your attack powers to deal damage.
That's a fundamental difference. Recon Circuits should be in line with the other healing abilities that can be used while dealing damage.
While you use a maintained heal you cannot attack. You can click a heal over time or a toggle and then use your attack powers to deal damage.
That's a fundamental difference. Recon Circuits should be in line with the other healing abilities that can be used while dealing damage.
Maybe i didn't word my suggestion clearly. My suggestion is a toggle and not a HOT.
How i suggest RC should perform if you don't have any other toggles:
If you are a freeform without Toggle attacks, that's when my suggested RC would perform like EH. You would just activate RC and enjoy the heal while being locked out of your your attacks.
Ideally, If you try to activate a non PA attack then you cancel RC. In any case, whatever action would normally cancel toggles would cancel RC.
How i suggest RC would perform on a toggle focused PA build:
If you are a toggle focused PA build and you activate RC without attacking, you would again get the EH level healing.
If you are a toggle focused PA build and you decide to activate your toggle attacks then a lower healing rate would immediately be imposed. With the "lowered healing from attacking" you would get numbers comparable to the current RC on pts. A debuff on the heal itself is imposed if you activate other toggles (stack toggles) with RC.
What i was trying to achieve was a power that behaves like EH if you don't have toggles in your build and behaves like the current pts RC if you use it in conjunction with other toggles. You would only get the EH level healing if you don't attack, and you would only be able to use toggle attacks while RC is active (at the cost of lower healing).
This would make RC a competitive choice for any non PA toggle user and preserve its toggle functionality.
There isn't a huge difference between toggles and maintains if you aren't stacking toggles. Toggles without stacking are just maintains that maintain them selves.
Personally I don't see any reason why individual slotted PA powers should work as cherry-picked powers. No reason at all. It's because I essentially see all of the slotted PA powers as components of one single power, rather than separate powers in their own right.
They are building blocks that offer your selections you can combine to address the current combat situation. When used together, they create the effect you need. Whenever you activate one of the slotted powers, you activate the 'power armor system'. Same as if you'd activate any maintain power. As long as you are tapping into the 'power armor system', you can't use other powers, again same as when you are using any maintain power.
Your ability to use other slotted powers during this time is a special property of the power armor system - it's the strong synergy effect within the PA framework. All of the slotted toggles are essentially maintain powers. The fact that these powers are mostly made as toggles, I believe, is because toggles are internally the only mechanism that allows powers to be activated while others are running. If it wasn't for this, they could all have been made into maintains. Plasma Beam is a good example of the practical problems that arise when making them into real maintains however (you can't activate more PA toggles while PB is running, without canceling PB). I believe it was made into maintain to allow the necessary interaction for it to be directed by turning the character - same as Fire All Weapons was made into maintain to allow it to self-root. You stop using the 'power armor system' when you finish with the last of the slotted powers, at which point you're free to use other powers again. All of the slotted powers are components of this 'power armor system' power.
It's one of the most unique options in CO combat, and I don't want to see it disected. There's plenty of other options for cherry-picking your build. What comes to this 'power armor system' power, you can take it along with other powers, but the whole system is one package deal. How good it is for you, depends on how much resources (power picks and advantage points) you are willing to pour into upgrading it. If you only pick one of it's components, you can use it - sure. But it's not designed to work anywhere close to it's optimal alone, so expect it to be limited one way or the other.
Rec Circuits is not empathic healing, bionic shielding, bountiful chi or conviction. It's part of power armor system.
What comes to the interaction of 'power armor system' with other powers, that's another thing. Up till now, using block has worked as a shortcut to disabling all the components of power armor system at once. Now that Rec Circuits displays a unique ability to continue working even while block is being used, it does put a hamper on using that method to complitely shut down the power armor system.. and so an alternative method would be welcome.
The idea of having it shut down automatically when you activate any power that would not be compatible with it, is probably the most convinient suggestion so far - and if it can be done reasonably, then that's great. I'm thinking however, that it may not be such a simple task - because I suspect it would require altering the properties of every other power in the game to interact with every relevant toggle.
Another alternative would be to allow a /command that shuts down all of the threads of the power armor system. It could then be bound to a separate key, or even used as part of any keybind you use for a critical power like AO and AD for example - or bound into whatever key you use for blocking. PowersCancelAllActivations would be a good option, if it worked to shut down all toggles (unless it's used internally for something that makes it unsuitable for this). Otherwise, a new one such as PowersCancelAllToggles would be great. It could be limited to slotted toggles, or it could cancel all of the toggles.. personally I think either one would work.
Third possibility, less flexible one, would be to allow AO and AD powers to be utilized while the power armor system is running. It would fix some of the problems, but not exactly all of them.
About Plasma Beam:
One possibility to address it's problem with hitting targets on different elevation - not really sure if it's technically feasible - would be to hook it's targeting into the 'nearest to camera center' auto targeting system, and have it move to the new target swiftly but not instantly.
In practice this would mean it always aims at the target that's nearest to your crosshair. When you turn the camera so the crosshair goes closer to new target, the plasma beam would swiftly turn to point towards that new target (and swipe at whatever might be in between). It would not be 100% freely targeted, but rather like 'computer assisted' targeting where you pick your intended target by using the crosshair. It would need to move swiftly enough to catch moving targets (possibly move relative to speed of the target, so that it would never take more than say, 0.5 seconds to hit the new mark).
If that doesn't work, perhaps it would be possible to simply use vertical 90 degree (or up to 180 degree) sector to hit the targets. Not as visually elegant, but it would work mechanically to hit where you point.
Then we should also bring PA attacks in line with the other attack abilities, and make it so none of them can be used while another attack is active.
In what way are Power Armor attacks not in line with other attack abilities so that the toggle system should be disabled? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not making a ridiculous strawman argument that has no place in a beta test forum.
Personally I don't see any reason why individual slotted PA powers should work as cherry-picked powers. No reason at all. It's because I essentially see all of the slotted PA powers as components of one single power, rather than separate powers in their own right.
They are building blocks that offer your selections you can combine to address the current combat situation. When used together, they create the effect you need. Whenever you activate one of the slotted powers, you activate the 'power armor system'. Same as if you'd activate any maintain power. As long as you are tapping into the 'power armor system', you can't use other powers, again same as when you are using any maintain power.
Your ability to use other slotted powers during this time is a special property of the power armor system - it's the strong synergy effect within the PA framework. All of the slotted toggles are essentially maintain powers. The fact that these powers are mostly made as toggles, I believe, is because toggles are internally the only mechanism that allows powers to be activated while others are running. If it wasn't for this, they could all have been made into maintains. Plasma Beam is a good example of the practical problems that arise when making them into real maintains however (you can't activate more PA toggles while PB is running, without canceling PB). I believe it was made into maintain to allow the necessary interaction for it to be directed by turning the character - same as Fire All Weapons was made into maintain to allow it to self-root. You stop using the 'power armor system' when you finish with the last of the slotted powers, at which point you're free to use other powers again. All of the slotted powers are components of this 'power armor system' power.
It's one of the most unique options in CO combat, and I don't want to see it disected. There's plenty of other options for cherry-picking your build. What comes to this 'power armor system' power, you can take it along with other powers, but the whole system is one package deal. How good it is for you, depends on how much resources (power picks and advantage points) you are willing to pour into upgrading it. If you only pick one of it's components, you can use it - sure. But it's not designed to work anywhere close to it's optimal alone, so expect it to be limited one way or the other.
Rec Circuits is not empathic healing, bionic shielding, bountiful chi or conviction. It's part of power armor system.
What comes to the interaction of 'power armor system' with other powers, that's another thing. Up till now, using block has worked as a shortcut to disabling all the components of power armor system at once. Now that Rec Circuits displays a unique ability to continue working even while block is being used, it does put a hamper on using that method to complitely shut down the power armor system.. and so an alternative method would be welcome.
The idea of having it shut down automatically when you activate any power that would not be compatible with it, is probably the most convinient suggestion so far - and if it can be done reasonably, then that's great. I'm thinking however, that it may not be such a simple task - because I suspect it would require altering the properties of every other power in the game to interact with every relevant toggle.
Another alternative would be to allow a /command that shuts down all of the threads of the power armor system. It could then be bound to a separate key, or even used as part of any keybind you use for a critical power like AO and AD for example - or bound into whatever key you use for blocking. PowersCancelAllActivations would be a good option, if it worked to shut down all toggles (unless it's used internally for something that makes it unsuitable for this). Otherwise, a new one such as PowersCancelAllToggles would be great. It could be limited to slotted toggles, or it could cancel all of the toggles.. personally I think either one would work.
Third possibility, less flexible one, would be to allow AO and AD powers to be utilized while the power armor system is running. It would fix some of the problems, but not exactly all of them.
About Plasma Beam:
One possibility to address it's problem with hitting targets on different elevation - not really sure if it's technically feasible - would be to hook it's targeting into the 'nearest to camera center' auto targeting system, and have it move to the new target swiftly but not instantly.
In practice this would mean it always aims at the target that's nearest to your crosshair. When you turn the camera so the crosshair goes closer to new target, the plasma beam would swiftly turn to point towards that new target (and swipe at whatever might be in between). It would not be 100% freely targeted, but rather like 'computer assisted' targeting where you pick your intended target by using the crosshair. It would need to move swiftly enough to catch moving targets (possibly move relative to speed of the target, so that it would never take more than say, 0.5 seconds to hit the new mark).
If that doesn't work, perhaps it would be possible to simply use vertical 90 degree (or up to 180 degree) sector to hit the targets. Not as visually elegant, but it would work mechanically to hit where you point.
All those choices for updating toggles seem more complex than just adjusting the new heal. And none make Recon Circuits very useful outside of Power Armor. While that's not strictly necessary it is a good idea to make powers as overall useful as possible. A generic code to cancel PA attacks may be useful, but that's not too handy to the typical player. It's a very limited subset of players that are willing to update their keybinds just to use a new heal. I think most players would just say "this power sucks and the developers did a terrible job balancing it" and complain about it for years like everyone did about Eye Beams.
Empathic Healing numbers for myself: Looks like 10 ticks over 5 seconds at 119, 145, 165, 193, 219, 244, 269, 560 (crit), 321, 330, 336. Total of 2736 over 5 seconds. Would be about 2456 without the crit.
So a self-healing maintain heals about 2450 health over 5 seconds. You can't attack during this time because you are using a maintain.
Recon Circuits: +245 health every 1 s for 8 s. Total of 1960 health over 8 seconds. Cost 5.6 initial energy plus 3.7 energy / s for 35.5 total. No recharge time. Penalty that it cannot crit.
Empathic Healing: +2450 health over 5 seconds. Can critical hit. Cost 7.2 energy/s for 36 energy total.
BCR: +145 health every 2 s for 16 s. Total of 1160 health over 16 seconds. Cost 13 energy. Recharge 8.7 s. Can stack on itself and has fantastic Resurgent Reiki advantage. Penalty of 10% damage.
Bionic Shielding: +393 health when attacked, up to 5 times for 1965 total health. Cost 37 energy. No recharge but can only affect every 15 seconds. Penalty of no heal without being attacked.
Conviction: +654 health. Cost 33 energy. Recharge 3.5 s.
Comparing Recon Circuits with Empathic Healing makes Recon Circuits look even worse overall. Technically you could take Recon Circuits and pretend that it's a maintain, since it prevents you from using most other powers while active. But it's far inferior to Empathic Healing in this regard. It heals for significantly less health, takes more time, and cannot crit.
I know someone earlier in the thread suggested that Recon Circuits was the best heal in the game, and my data does not bear this out.
While I agree that RC in its current form is of limited value to most builds, I do think the Devs made the right decision to not have block disable the power, who wants a self heal that doesn't work while blocking
for a Toggle PA build the power is great.
I think Pulswave's suggestion has merit, but cutting the healing to 25% seems a tad steep, how about increasing the duration to compensate to about double.
how about while blocking insteed of the increased healing tics, have it convert a percentage of the incoming damage to health (granted this might require a complete rework of the power) .
Note: I would love to have maintained versions of the PA toggle powers, or at least eye beams and concussor beams.
Empathic Healing numbers for myself: Looks like 10 ticks over 5 seconds at 119, 145, 165, 193, 219, 244, 269, 560 (crit), 321, 330, 336. Total of 2736 over 5 seconds. Would be about 2456 without the crit.
So a self-healing maintain heals about 2450 health over 5 seconds. You can't attack during this time because you are using a maintain.
Recon Circuits: +245 health every 1 s for 8 s. Total of 1960 health over 8 seconds. Cost 5.6 initial energy plus 3.7 energy / s for 35.5 total. No recharge time. Penalty that it cannot crit.
Empathic Healing: +2450 health over 5 seconds. Can critical hit. Cost 7.2 energy/s for 36 energy total.
BCR: +145 health every 2 s for 16 s. Total of 1160 health over 16 seconds. Cost 13 energy. Recharge 8.7 s. Can stack on itself and has fantastic Resurgent Reiki advantage. Penalty of 10% damage.
Bionic Shielding: +393 health when attacked, up to 5 times for 1965 total health. Cost 37 energy. No recharge but can only affect every 15 seconds. Penalty of no heal without being attacked.
Conviction: +654 health. Cost 33 energy. Recharge 3.5 s.
Comparing Recon Circuits with Empathic Healing makes Recon Circuits look even worse overall. Technically you could take Recon Circuits and pretend that it's a maintain, since it prevents you from using most other powers while active. But it's far inferior to Empathic Healing in this regard. It heals for significantly less health, takes more time, and cannot crit.
I know someone earlier in the thread suggested that Recon Circuits was the best heal in the game, and my data does not bear this out.
So individually it isn't, although it does have the benefit of being able to use block while healing - which I think can be very significant. If you factor in the potential mitigation from blocking, versus the way Empathic Healing has to accomplish the 'mitigation' by healing the incoming damage, it become more blurry. When healing others, obviously Empathic wins since RC does nothing. When healing yourself, for purely 'I want my health up', RC wins under heavy fire.. while EH will do comparatively better the lighter your incoming damage is.
I'm curious though - how do you feel the individual slotted PA toggle attacks compare 1 vs 1 against comparable maintained attacks from other frameworks? Do people actually find them useful individually?
Hmmmmm I just realized that there are no Forms that buff ranged dmg scaling with DEX like the MA forms for melee. I mean ther is one that scales on STR for melee and one that scales on INT/EGO for ranged but there are none that scale off of DEX for ranged while melee has I belive 4.
MA Forms do also buff ranged now .. ok they only give 50% .. but its better then nothing if you don't have
much INT or EGO but a lot of DEX. My Electric and Fire Char for example are using FotT now as pure
ranged chars. And my Infernals also use FotT now .. but ok they have DE as melee power
MA Forms do also buff ranged now .. ok they only give 50% .. but its better then nothing if you don't have
much INT or EGO but a lot of DEX. My Electric and Fire Char for example are using FotT now as pure
ranged chars. And my Infernals also use FotT now .. but ok they have DE as melee power
Well they might buff ranged for 50% but as far as I know STR is the melee stat buff, EGO the ranged stat buff and DEX is the melee/ranged stat buff. It seems unfair that melee shoud be the only ones to take advantage of this + I really like how you have the choice to build stacks based on crit/dodge/charge (bleeds don't apply since there is no real ranged set that deals with that).
Bottom line if you want to make a ranged crit build with DEX you will only get 50% of what a melee toon would get which is unjustified IMO.
SUGGESTION:
Make all Forms have a Ctrl + click feauture that would allow you to dynamically adjust the bonus you get to ranged/melee. This would allow for things like 30% melee and 120% ranged or 75% melee and 75% ranged (or any other combination such as 33% melee and 117% ranged if someone would want that). There shoudl be a min limit of 20-25% for melee/ranged dmg so that we don't have 150% ranged or 150% melee. IMO this would allow people that want to use STR on a ranged toon to buff dmg even though you would arguably loose out on the dmg they would get from EGO. The opposite is also true meaning that someone using EGO could buff their melee damage. This would open up compeltely new ways of building hereoes eliminating stat restrictions :eek:
Well they might buff ranged for 50% but as far as I know STR is the melee stat buff, EGO the ranged stat buff and DEX is the melee/ranged stat buff. It seems unfair that melee shoud be the only ones to take advantage of this + I really like how you have the choice to build stacks based on crit/dodge/charge (bleeds don't apply since there is no real ranged set that deals with that).
Bottom line if you want to make a ranged crit build with DEX you will only get 50% of what a melee toon would get which is unjustified IMO.
The thing is .. as an old FotT user i'm happy that it now boosts at least also a bit ranged, since before it did nothing
besides giving energy. While enrage user now are upset because enrage before has boosted both to 100%
and now they loose ranged damage .. so let them have at least that bit of advantage
So individually it isn't, although it does have the benefit of being able to use block while healing - which I think can be very significant. If you factor in the potential mitigation from blocking, versus the way Empathic Healing has to accomplish the 'mitigation' by healing the incoming damage, it become more blurry.
I'm curious though - how do you feel the individual slotted PA toggle attacks compare 1 vs 1 against comparable maintained attacks from other frameworks? Do people actually find them useful individually?
Its definitely advantageous to have your self-heal run without being stuck in 'maintain' mode. Being able to block while healing yourself is helpful. So a heal that you have to maintain manually should be more effective than one that runs on its own. But would you ever choose Recon Circuits as it exists today compared to any of the other heals listed? I wouldnt, even for exclusively Power Armor builds. The mechanic it uses is more trouble than its worth.
On slotted powers, some are worth using individually and some aren't.
Chest Beam the best example. It is a good power for any build if you can stand the animation. The debuff is great and the damage is high enough that it's always a useful power for any build.
Power Gauntlet is comparable to any other 100 foot ranged attack, as is Tactical Missile. PG gives up a little damage for its interrupt, which I find to be a good trade. But TM is fine for flat out raw damage.
The only PA attacks that I know of as 'inferior' are ones that I've already listed in the PA thread with issues. Shoulder Launcher, Eye Beams, and Energy Wave. All the other PA attacks are more or less comparable with non-PA attacks on their own. The main reason I don't use them on other builds is because other powers have innate synergies as well. This game encourages you to use powers in the same 'family' in the way that energy unlocks and damage synergies work. Plus the hard reality that many PA animations don't fit the concept I'm going for with other builds.
The thing is .. as an old FotT user i'm happy that it now boosts at least also a bit ranged, since before it did nothing
besides giving energy. While enrage user now are upset because enrage before has boosted both to 100%
and now they loose ranged damage .. so let them have at least that bit of advantage
I'm confused here. What I'm talking about is that there are no forms for ranged that scale off of DEX. The STR reference was just to make a point. Also if you would look at my suggestion you would notice that it would allow players to get what they want (albeit not 100% ranged and 100% melee) in terms of buffs indifferent of stats. As such all current forms could be asjusted to buff ranged and melee damage as desired (whitin certain bounds for balance purpouses).
But would you ever choose Recon Circuits as it exists today compared to any of the other heals listed? I wouldnt, even for exclusively Power Armor builds. The mechanic it uses is more trouble than its worth.
I think i would have been grateful for something like that, when Amphibian killed my PA character, because
i didn't realized that all my heals were simply not activated since .. i was attacking.
Of course .. having other heals cancel all PA toggles, would maybe be the better solution.
Comments
It may be more universally useful, but it's nerfed to garbage for a PA toggle build that wants to run Minigun and Concussor Beams while self-healing, which is the situation that it is currently optimal for.
You are significantly over dramatizing my recommended change. While Recon Circuits would heal at 25% of what it does on Test now while you attack, any time you block the heal would be exactly the same. And in exchange for this you could use your energy builder and any clicky power you want without interruption. Or activate a second heal if needed. That's a fair tradeoff, not nerfed to garbage. I consider the ability to use clickies and energy builders to be far more useful than the extra healing that's given up while not blocking.
Also, you are showing how incredibly limited Recon Circuit as it stands today is. Just about the only build that this power works for is one where the main attacks are 1) a hand slot power and 2) a should slot power. Any other build (which has to be about 98% of builds in the game) has limited or absolutely no use from Recon Circuits. That's because Recon Circuits disables every other power in the game while active, and unlike other PA attacks it cannot be easily disabled by holding block.
My take on Recon Circuits is that it is a lousy power even for Power Armor builds as-is. It's frustrating to use and very limited, just like Eye Beams has been for years. There was a legitimate point to that power too, but it was such a limited use-case that it was the laughing-stock of the set. Recon Circuits is made of the same cloth. It's going to get players killed in combat and it doesn't even work well with the new archetype that it's presented with.
I concur. The problem with toggles has always been the inability to click heals and defenses while firing off toggles. The time to heal would be while blocking. Pulsewave's suggestion is sound.
Let me make myself clear: I don't care if there are powers in this game that are useful in very narrow builds. Obviously that is something you don't like to see. We are never going to see eye-to-eye on that.
The way I see it, you are designing the-best-heal-for-turtling. In a fast-paced game like CO, I hate that idea. I assume you've played a few Alerts and run some Lairs in your years in CO, is having to hold block for 8 seconds ever fun?
But I'm generally confused as to who your proposed power is designed for. A tank will probably have some dodge and be better off with Resurgent Reiki. DPSers and healers will be better off with Conviction or Empathic Healing.
Todd the overlying point that pulse is trying to make is that as Reconstruction circuits stands right now, nobody is going to take it outside of novelty purposes. It barely functions as it stands right now and it's clunkyness is quite the frustration. What he wants and i support the general idea of the fact that he wants a "Functional Heal."
Is it really that big of a deal that players want to get out of the generic 3 heals with something different, generic 3 = bionic shield BCR and empathic. The power should have a good tradeoff vs. other healing powers not be something that nobody can ever use. As it currently stands now it can only work with ONE powerset and only a few specific moves from that powerset. That to me doesn't feel creative or fun at all and generally contradicts the freedom of choice that champions online gives. Not saying i am behind the idea that pulse has proposed but it's better than what reconstruction circuits does now is all i am saying.
edit
Also Nightrod, just use form of the tempest for Dex builds, it procs off of crit and it works in ranged Dex builds.
My goal is simply to adjust Recon Circuits so that it is more globally useful, while keeping this power unique and balanced with other healing powers. This has nothing to do with turtling or blocking, and neither is necessary with my recommended changes to Recon Circuits.
If Recon Circuits is well-balanced then some of your point would be right. A tank that spent resources increasing his dodge chance may be better with Bountiful Chi and the 3 point Reiki advantage. But a tank that does not invest any resources in dodge would be far better off with my modified version of Recon Circuits. Not all tanks should be forced to stack dodge, and my Recon Circuits would support that very well.
Also, many DPS builds would benefit from my change to Recon Circuits since they will spend less energy on healing over the course of a fight with Recon Circuits vs Conviction. They would also benefit from spending less time executing their heal power than having to spam Conviction every few seconds. And they don't have to waste time holding down a maintain like you do with many other heals.
I don't want to argue this out too much more with you, but I am surprised at how unrealistic your view seems on this. A self-heal over time that's high while blocking and a fairly low while not blocking is something that many different builds could use. You seem stuck on the idea that not getting the maximum amount of healing stinks. My experience in this game suggests I hit block when I'm under heavy fire for almost any builds. Being able to run a low heal over time that suddenly quadruples in power when I hit block would be worthwhile on many builds. That's very useful when I need it most, without making the heal overpowered.
And we've already asked about letting you activate other powers while toggles are running, even if you then have to turn them back on. I'm cool with that. What I'm not cool with is making a heal that is mostly useful when you turtle.
Tying blocking to healing is annoying, and it supplants the role of Active Defenses. Consider this: the only time in the game when you need to block is when you are taking damage, obviously. We already have two heals that work better when you are taking damage: Resurgent Reiki and Bionic Shielding. Pulsewave's suggestion basically ties RC into the same role: heals that work better when you are being attacked. Now, one might argue that the difference here is that you don't have to be under attack to block and receive the full healing, but do you really want a power whose functionality is such that it makes is useful for you to block when no one is attacking you?!
Let me rephrase that from my perspective: being able to run a heal that suddenly loses 75% of its effectiveness when you do anything would be annoying on many builds.
You'd then get more or less the same results with PA toggles by running chest weapons along with rec circuits and other weapons - and outside PA set, you would get pretty close to same behaviour. You pay some extra energy, and take a serious hit to your DPS, but get a heal running on the background while still being able to attack.
Numbers might need to be adjusted, but I think 30% would be pretty close.
Either way, this would retain the intended tactical choice - healing, traded for reduced DPS.
Edit:
Or, possibly leave the energy cost as it is, but make it so that running rec circuits reduces the cost of PA toggles by 15-20% while it's active. What I'm after here is.. PA is already very energy intense set, so forcing you to run another chest toggle to compensate for the damage penalty would be too much. The energy reduction could be this power's 'synergy' with PA set.
Certain PA attack can work outside of the framework . Chest Beam, it's not different from any other charge attack. But Consussor Beams or Mini-Gun? Those are limiting in that you can't activate other abilities while they are running. The the same argument you are making.
(Note: And I'll admit defeat is the latter isn't true. I haven't tried any builds using mini-gun or Micro-munitions outside of pure PA builds. I honestly haven't tested it. )
Am I to assume that ppl don't care bout Ranged Dex builds? I think it would only be fair to have some Forms that scale off of Dex and work like the MA Forms (which gain stacks based on crits/dodge/charge) yet buff Ranged dmg and not melee. Just so that DEX Ranged is as viable as DEX Melee :cool:
Earth set. When using the EDIT: Fissure power adv Reconstruction (?) and Blocking with Stone Shroud.
*Whatever "as is" winds up being on release.
Because COs basic concept is to be able to go out of framework to build what you want, not limit power choices. There are no classes in CO.
ANY change to RC is better than nothing, but i don't like the idea of a heal based around blocking. I (personally) only tend to block for short burst and if im blocking for a long time, im usaly about to die or waiting for a healer to save me.
I also am concerned that i wont be able to get much use out of this in pvp because i cant block in pvp.
If I'm charging a cascade, I either fire it or cancel it in order to do anything else. The same applies to RC. You must toggle it off order to use most anything else. This is normal. The problem is players are very unused to toggles in the form of anything but PA damage powers. They are the only powers in the game that behave that way.
There has never been a toggle heal before, and you guys apparently cant deal with that. RC is unique in that it is the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking. You can't use your end builder with it on? You don't say?! Welcome to how the entire combat system works.
It works in every build you simply have to remember you cant just let go off the key or button to shut it off. All you have to do is understand how PA toggles work, and know this one heals you instead of doing damage. If toggles aren't your thing there are plenty of other heals in the game to choose from.
RC is nice because now if I want I finally have a heal I can use in tandem with my Toggles without having to shut them all of. It even works well with chest beam despite sharing the same slot due to CB being a charged power. I can fire a CB and immediately toggle RC on. If I toggle on RC and then use CB it shuts it off for me with me having to de-toggle it which is also nice.
Well there's BCR which heals you while you can still atk and build energy and Bionic would also fall into the category of heals that allow you to atk/build energy.
Power Armor isn't a class. It's a quirky framework that has abilities that synergies very well within the framework. Most of the abilities don't work well outside of the framework. But that doesn't mean that demolish the framework to make one desired ability outside of the framework.
Power Armor is about a really different style of play from the rest of the game. Let's just call Power Armor framework the exception totally open power selection paradigm of CO. That doesn't make it a bad thing in my opinion.
That's the key difference I and others have been trying to point out though. Those are click powers that provide a status effect, the effect being a heal over time. They're not like toggles.
PA toggles are basically like maintains that maintain themselves without you having to hold down the button. When such a toggle is active, no other power maybe used, just like a normal maintain -- except for PA toggles in other slots. Reconstruction Circuits, then, is exactly like that. It's basically a maintained heal, except it allows you to combine it with select other powers (PA toggles).
People keep arguing from the notion that RC is a "click then it puts an 8-second HoT on me" power like BCR. That's not what it is. It is a "turn on this power for 8 seconds" power like Minigun.
Precisely. PA framework has is own quirky paradigm for the way it work. That paradigm prevents full interoperatbility with powers from other framework. Reconstruction Circuits is a self-heal power that's designed for PA's quirky paradigm.
There are 4 kinds of powers in the game. Charge, Click, Maintain, and according to this thread everyone's favorite Toggle. If you want any business with PA's weapons system you better learn to get along with toggles cause you aint got a choice. Just be glad toggles are unique only to certain powers in this framework and your end builder if you choose to set it as such.
To the above indeed as well. BCR vs RR is a dead argument. One is a click while the other is a Toggle. The end. Remember what I said earlier. Other than PA toggles you cannot nor have you ever been able to activate more than one power at the same time.
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=148357
I say this as someone who just finished leveling a Blade to 40. Almost no one could reliably pull aggro off me in Alerts. It was scary.
The way I see RC is not the way you see it. Nevertheless, they should not have made RC a Chest slot but a Utility slot (New). I don't like the idea that I have to sacrifice my Chest Slot for RC.
We dislike it because if you don't use it for one specific build, it sucks.
Once again your oversimplifying and generalizing the issue. your rationalizing your emotions instead of addressing the issue directly. Stop rite there.....
If by "works with every build" you mean it functions without any bugs, then ok. But RC is not useful for every build. RC only "works" (ie useful) for one build. Saying RC is a competitive or even viable option for any non PA toggle build is just ridiculous.
Please keep complaining about it. It's highly amusing to me. It would be great to see the power go live as is just for the extra whining.
Still if everyone combines their tears and cries hard enough you might get it changed. When your priorities regarding all of PA involve complaining about a single new power for many posts on end, sometihng has gone wrong.
Deal with it. These threads should not be about your personal issues with the powers. You speak for no one but yourself, and you do it objectively or not at all lest you risk bias and conflicting opinions.
I want the power to be like X! No I like it fine as is! You're both wrong it ought to be like Y! You can still find bugs and give feedback without turning it into a personal vendetta to have a perform changed to your exact needs.
I hadn't noticed any one crying or getting personal in this thread.
/shrug.
Also im sure the feedback in above quote will be very useful to the devs.:)
If RC was in a new Utility slot, it would basically be "use it alongside any PA toggles" and would presumably have to be considerably weaker because activating it would not impact your DPS much other than energy cost.
Especially since there are no other utility slot powers.
Having to choose between full DPS or DPS+healing is part of the essence of the power...
Let's think a bit ahead in the future shall we? What do you presume the future of PA is? More toggles and more toggle slots that's what it will be. Since they go with the TOGGLE mechanic that's what follows as such there will have to be dedicated slot powers like Utility Slots, Offense Slots and Defense Slots. There is only so much you can do with only 3 slots especially atk slots. The slots I mentioned above will help make PA more customizable.
Alternatively they could make a 4th toggle have a greater penalty. Anyhow my point was that I did not like it taking over the Chest slot. I wish it would be tagged as Chest/Hand/Shoulder (for now) so if I want to use the Hand slot and the Chest slot I can. Similarly with Chest Slot and Shoulder slot. I dislike that it's a static choice not dynamic.
Empathic Healing is a maintain. That's a huge difference from a power that you execute once an dont worry about for 8 seconds. My take was to give players an option that is fire and forget self-heal that allows you to attack while healing. But if you want to play defense, it would be the best defense in the game by default.
Do you really think that it's easy to work with Recon Circuits overall?
1) It disables all energy builders
2) It disables all attacks that arent PA hand slot or PA shoulder slot
3) It disables all active defenses that you normally save for when you need a defensive boost.
Suggesting that Recon Circuits is "the only heal in the game wherein your hero (not his or her pets) can use it while still attacking." shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the basic of all the heals in Champions Online. Bionic Shielding and Bountiful Chi Resurgence are staple heals that work while you keep attacking. Please take a look at how those heal work and think about what I've proposed again.
Didnt I already say there are no classes in CO? Yes. I am absolutely sure I did.
I didn't say anything in my post about demolishing a framework.
The basis for CO power picks is for players to be able to pick the powers they want across frameworks. Whether they synergize well is up to the player. This is an undisputed fact. I don't see your argument. Pulse waves suggestion is highly valid. RC would fit many character concepts. Do we limit convictioni to only Celestial characters? No. Do we limit Bionic Shielding or any other heal to characters of the framework for that power? No.
It is not a quirky framework. It is a framework with a unique mechanic, toggles, that some people are either uncomfortable with or who don't want to deal with. I have enjoyed PA from the beginning. The number one complaint about PA is the inability to access out of framework heals, buffs, Active Offense or Defenses, etc. without first shutting off running toggles. We have talked about this in the PA suggestion thread for more than a year. The answer does not absolutely HAVE to be a toggle used only while shooting other toggles. Other ideas can be considered and should be considered if they will serve the game better. I agree with Pulsewave's suggestion because RC could easily fit other concepts. It is a smart use of power development resources. Every set does not HAVE to have one or two of every type of power.
Maybe you could elaborate on this "huge difference" because i don't understand.
From my perspective, the main functional difference between EH and my proposed RC (on a non toggle build) would be that you hold down a button to maintain EH but RC would "maintain" it self. In both cases, you are unable to do any thing else but heal.
Are you saying my proposal would be better than EH?
Are you saying it would be overpowered?
Are you saying that this would not be a useful power?
What are the consequences of this "huge difference" that makes it a bad idea?
While you use a maintained heal you cannot attack. You can click a heal over time or a toggle and then use your attack powers to deal damage.
That's a fundamental difference. Recon Circuits should be in line with the other healing abilities that can be used while dealing damage.
Then we should also bring PA attacks in line with the other attack abilities, and make it so none of them can be used while another attack is active.
Maybe i didn't word my suggestion clearly.
My suggestion is a toggle and not a HOT.
How i suggest RC should perform if you don't have any other toggles:
If you are a freeform without Toggle attacks, that's when my suggested RC would perform like EH. You would just activate RC and enjoy the heal while being locked out of your your attacks.
Ideally, If you try to activate a non PA attack then you cancel RC. In any case, whatever action would normally cancel toggles would cancel RC.
How i suggest RC would perform on a toggle focused PA build:
If you are a toggle focused PA build and you activate RC without attacking, you would again get the EH level healing.
If you are a toggle focused PA build and you decide to activate your toggle attacks then a lower healing rate would immediately be imposed. With the "lowered healing from attacking" you would get numbers comparable to the current RC on pts. A debuff on the heal itself is imposed if you activate other toggles (stack toggles) with RC.
What i was trying to achieve was a power that behaves like EH if you don't have toggles in your build and behaves like the current pts RC if you use it in conjunction with other toggles. You would only get the EH level healing if you don't attack, and you would only be able to use toggle attacks while RC is active (at the cost of lower healing).
This would make RC a competitive choice for any non PA toggle user and preserve its toggle functionality.
There isn't a huge difference between toggles and maintains if you aren't stacking toggles. Toggles without stacking are just maintains that maintain them selves.
Personally I don't see any reason why individual slotted PA powers should work as cherry-picked powers. No reason at all. It's because I essentially see all of the slotted PA powers as components of one single power, rather than separate powers in their own right.
They are building blocks that offer your selections you can combine to address the current combat situation. When used together, they create the effect you need. Whenever you activate one of the slotted powers, you activate the 'power armor system'. Same as if you'd activate any maintain power. As long as you are tapping into the 'power armor system', you can't use other powers, again same as when you are using any maintain power.
Your ability to use other slotted powers during this time is a special property of the power armor system - it's the strong synergy effect within the PA framework. All of the slotted toggles are essentially maintain powers. The fact that these powers are mostly made as toggles, I believe, is because toggles are internally the only mechanism that allows powers to be activated while others are running. If it wasn't for this, they could all have been made into maintains. Plasma Beam is a good example of the practical problems that arise when making them into real maintains however (you can't activate more PA toggles while PB is running, without canceling PB). I believe it was made into maintain to allow the necessary interaction for it to be directed by turning the character - same as Fire All Weapons was made into maintain to allow it to self-root. You stop using the 'power armor system' when you finish with the last of the slotted powers, at which point you're free to use other powers again. All of the slotted powers are components of this 'power armor system' power.
It's one of the most unique options in CO combat, and I don't want to see it disected. There's plenty of other options for cherry-picking your build. What comes to this 'power armor system' power, you can take it along with other powers, but the whole system is one package deal. How good it is for you, depends on how much resources (power picks and advantage points) you are willing to pour into upgrading it. If you only pick one of it's components, you can use it - sure. But it's not designed to work anywhere close to it's optimal alone, so expect it to be limited one way or the other.
Rec Circuits is not empathic healing, bionic shielding, bountiful chi or conviction. It's part of power armor system.
What comes to the interaction of 'power armor system' with other powers, that's another thing. Up till now, using block has worked as a shortcut to disabling all the components of power armor system at once. Now that Rec Circuits displays a unique ability to continue working even while block is being used, it does put a hamper on using that method to complitely shut down the power armor system.. and so an alternative method would be welcome.
The idea of having it shut down automatically when you activate any power that would not be compatible with it, is probably the most convinient suggestion so far - and if it can be done reasonably, then that's great. I'm thinking however, that it may not be such a simple task - because I suspect it would require altering the properties of every other power in the game to interact with every relevant toggle.
Another alternative would be to allow a /command that shuts down all of the threads of the power armor system. It could then be bound to a separate key, or even used as part of any keybind you use for a critical power like AO and AD for example - or bound into whatever key you use for blocking. PowersCancelAllActivations would be a good option, if it worked to shut down all toggles (unless it's used internally for something that makes it unsuitable for this). Otherwise, a new one such as PowersCancelAllToggles would be great. It could be limited to slotted toggles, or it could cancel all of the toggles.. personally I think either one would work.
Third possibility, less flexible one, would be to allow AO and AD powers to be utilized while the power armor system is running. It would fix some of the problems, but not exactly all of them.
About Plasma Beam:
One possibility to address it's problem with hitting targets on different elevation - not really sure if it's technically feasible - would be to hook it's targeting into the 'nearest to camera center' auto targeting system, and have it move to the new target swiftly but not instantly.
In practice this would mean it always aims at the target that's nearest to your crosshair. When you turn the camera so the crosshair goes closer to new target, the plasma beam would swiftly turn to point towards that new target (and swipe at whatever might be in between). It would not be 100% freely targeted, but rather like 'computer assisted' targeting where you pick your intended target by using the crosshair. It would need to move swiftly enough to catch moving targets (possibly move relative to speed of the target, so that it would never take more than say, 0.5 seconds to hit the new mark).
If that doesn't work, perhaps it would be possible to simply use vertical 90 degree (or up to 180 degree) sector to hit the targets. Not as visually elegant, but it would work mechanically to hit where you point.
In what way are Power Armor attacks not in line with other attack abilities so that the toggle system should be disabled? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not making a ridiculous strawman argument that has no place in a beta test forum.
All those choices for updating toggles seem more complex than just adjusting the new heal. And none make Recon Circuits very useful outside of Power Armor. While that's not strictly necessary it is a good idea to make powers as overall useful as possible. A generic code to cancel PA attacks may be useful, but that's not too handy to the typical player. It's a very limited subset of players that are willing to update their keybinds just to use a new heal. I think most players would just say "this power sucks and the developers did a terrible job balancing it" and complain about it for years like everyone did about Eye Beams.
So a self-healing maintain heals about 2450 health over 5 seconds. You can't attack during this time because you are using a maintain.
Empathic Healing: +2450 health over 5 seconds. Can critical hit. Cost 7.2 energy/s for 36 energy total.
BCR: +145 health every 2 s for 16 s. Total of 1160 health over 16 seconds. Cost 13 energy. Recharge 8.7 s. Can stack on itself and has fantastic Resurgent Reiki advantage. Penalty of 10% damage.
Bionic Shielding: +393 health when attacked, up to 5 times for 1965 total health. Cost 37 energy. No recharge but can only affect every 15 seconds. Penalty of no heal without being attacked.
Conviction: +654 health. Cost 33 energy. Recharge 3.5 s.
Comparing Recon Circuits with Empathic Healing makes Recon Circuits look even worse overall. Technically you could take Recon Circuits and pretend that it's a maintain, since it prevents you from using most other powers while active. But it's far inferior to Empathic Healing in this regard. It heals for significantly less health, takes more time, and cannot crit.
I know someone earlier in the thread suggested that Recon Circuits was the best heal in the game, and my data does not bear this out.
for a Toggle PA build the power is great.
I think Pulswave's suggestion has merit, but cutting the healing to 25% seems a tad steep, how about increasing the duration to compensate to about double.
how about while blocking insteed of the increased healing tics, have it convert a percentage of the incoming damage to health (granted this might require a complete rework of the power) .
Note: I would love to have maintained versions of the PA toggle powers, or at least eye beams and concussor beams.
So individually it isn't, although it does have the benefit of being able to use block while healing - which I think can be very significant. If you factor in the potential mitigation from blocking, versus the way Empathic Healing has to accomplish the 'mitigation' by healing the incoming damage, it become more blurry. When healing others, obviously Empathic wins since RC does nothing. When healing yourself, for purely 'I want my health up', RC wins under heavy fire.. while EH will do comparatively better the lighter your incoming damage is.
I'm curious though - how do you feel the individual slotted PA toggle attacks compare 1 vs 1 against comparable maintained attacks from other frameworks? Do people actually find them useful individually?
MA Forms do also buff ranged now .. ok they only give 50% .. but its better then nothing if you don't have
much INT or EGO but a lot of DEX. My Electric and Fire Char for example are using FotT now as pure
ranged chars. And my Infernals also use FotT now .. but ok they have DE as melee power
Well they might buff ranged for 50% but as far as I know STR is the melee stat buff, EGO the ranged stat buff and DEX is the melee/ranged stat buff. It seems unfair that melee shoud be the only ones to take advantage of this + I really like how you have the choice to build stacks based on crit/dodge/charge (bleeds don't apply since there is no real ranged set that deals with that).
Bottom line if you want to make a ranged crit build with DEX you will only get 50% of what a melee toon would get which is unjustified IMO.
SUGGESTION:
Make all Forms have a Ctrl + click feauture that would allow you to dynamically adjust the bonus you get to ranged/melee. This would allow for things like 30% melee and 120% ranged or 75% melee and 75% ranged (or any other combination such as 33% melee and 117% ranged if someone would want that). There shoudl be a min limit of 20-25% for melee/ranged dmg so that we don't have 150% ranged or 150% melee. IMO this would allow people that want to use STR on a ranged toon to buff dmg even though you would arguably loose out on the dmg they would get from EGO. The opposite is also true meaning that someone using EGO could buff their melee damage. This would open up compeltely new ways of building hereoes eliminating stat restrictions :eek:
The thing is .. as an old FotT user i'm happy that it now boosts at least also a bit ranged, since before it did nothing
besides giving energy. While enrage user now are upset because enrage before has boosted both to 100%
and now they loose ranged damage .. so let them have at least that bit of advantage
Its definitely advantageous to have your self-heal run without being stuck in 'maintain' mode. Being able to block while healing yourself is helpful. So a heal that you have to maintain manually should be more effective than one that runs on its own. But would you ever choose Recon Circuits as it exists today compared to any of the other heals listed? I wouldnt, even for exclusively Power Armor builds. The mechanic it uses is more trouble than its worth.
On slotted powers, some are worth using individually and some aren't.
Chest Beam the best example. It is a good power for any build if you can stand the animation. The debuff is great and the damage is high enough that it's always a useful power for any build.
Power Gauntlet is comparable to any other 100 foot ranged attack, as is Tactical Missile. PG gives up a little damage for its interrupt, which I find to be a good trade. But TM is fine for flat out raw damage.
The only PA attacks that I know of as 'inferior' are ones that I've already listed in the PA thread with issues. Shoulder Launcher, Eye Beams, and Energy Wave. All the other PA attacks are more or less comparable with non-PA attacks on their own. The main reason I don't use them on other builds is because other powers have innate synergies as well. This game encourages you to use powers in the same 'family' in the way that energy unlocks and damage synergies work. Plus the hard reality that many PA animations don't fit the concept I'm going for with other builds.
I'm confused here. What I'm talking about is that there are no forms for ranged that scale off of DEX. The STR reference was just to make a point. Also if you would look at my suggestion you would notice that it would allow players to get what they want (albeit not 100% ranged and 100% melee) in terms of buffs indifferent of stats. As such all current forms could be asjusted to buff ranged and melee damage as desired (whitin certain bounds for balance purpouses).
I think i would have been grateful for something like that, when Amphibian killed my PA character, because
i didn't realized that all my heals were simply not activated since .. i was attacking.
Of course .. having other heals cancel all PA toggles, would maybe be the better solution.