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PTS Update FC.23.20111201a.0

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKmluL9VRAs


    Just throwing the generic Avatar reference out there. x) While it's true that Aang usually relies on knockback, he can and does use a few slashing air moves that look just as natural and wind-ey. I understand that Cryptic is kind of on a tight schedual now, but if Wind ever get's a re-review I''d definitely like some newer stylized animations for your character. Wind is a moving force, and I would really like to see our character's personal animations reflect that. Not to a martial arts degree like Avatar, but at least make it look like they stay in constant movement with the wind at their backs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Quite the debate going on here. We discussed what damage types Wind should use before it ever went to PTS. We realized that some attacks could be represented as slashing damage, cold damage, or crushing damage (possibly even sonic damage, though that makes less sense for pretty much all of the powers we went with), depending on which effect we were going for. We didn't think making it into a tri-damage set was a good idea though, so we decided on just Crushing and Cold.

    Cold was largely to add for the thematic feel of strong blowing winds, and to add synergy with the Ice framework. Crushing was because we wanted it to be able to work with the Force set - there are some different powers in Force that we aren't duplicating here, and a lot of them are close enough in appearance thematically that mixing them with the Wind framework would work just fine.

    We added in some direct Electricity interactions via advantages and the passive so that people could more easily make weather themed characters.

    So yes, while we agree that Slashing could make sense for some Wind attacks, Crushing made sense for a lot as well, and also worked better mechanically.


    As far as making additional powers/animations at this time - this is very unlikely. We are spending a lot of time and effort right now on finishing Wind AND Earth, as well as the Comic Series, and we have already started work on releases for early next year. Getting the existing Wind and Earth powers finished will take all of the time we have available to be able to release these sets.

    Of course, just as our other frameworks receive new powers from time to time, I'm sure Wind and Earth will receive more powers down the road as well.

    Thanks again for all the feedback everyone. We should have a new build hitting PTS soon, with additional Wind changes and hopefully the Earth framework as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ame wrote:
    ...As far as making additional powers/animations at this time - this is very unlikely...
    Too bad, i was looking forward to some sort of reskinned "Sword Cyclone" like attack (without weapons) to add to my speedsters arsenal :(

    Oh well... :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ame wrote:
    ..., and we have already started work on releases for early next year...

    Thanks for the answer. Well I do agree with what you said, but still would have preferred slashing, because in my opinion ranged slashing is more original.

    But anyway, I quote this particular part because that certainly mean you are working on Power Armor; of course I have to remind you about MOAR beam.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    The only request I have at this point, considering how impressive even the early build was, is that things like animations getting hung up or stuck if you try to tap/spam certain wind powers, get looked at and fixed before the set goes live. If there's one thing that turns me off to a set it's if the powers get all messed up just from common use - like tapping a charge power, or trying to move using another (which permits said movement by design).

    Keep up the good work guys!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ame wrote:
    We should have a new build hitting PTS soon, with additional Wind changes and hopefully the Earth framework as well.

    Soooooon (TM) ... as in today!? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    hey AME how about some more crippling challenge and challenging strikes advantages across the powers not just wind but all of the sets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Ame wrote:
    Quite the debate going on here. We discussed what damage types Wind should use before it ever went to PTS. We realized that some attacks could be represented as slashing damage, cold damage, or crushing damage (possibly even sonic damage, though that makes less sense for pretty much all of the powers we went with), depending on which effect we were going for. We didn't think making it into a tri-damage set was a good idea though, so we decided on just Crushing and Cold.

    Cold was largely to add for the thematic feel of strong blowing winds, and to add synergy with the Ice framework. Crushing was because we wanted it to be able to work with the Force set - there are some different powers in Force that we aren't duplicating here, and a lot of them are close enough in appearance thematically that mixing them with the Wind framework would work just fine.

    We added in some direct Electricity interactions via advantages and the passive so that people could more easily make weather themed characters.

    So yes, while we agree that Slashing could make sense for some Wind attacks, Crushing made sense for a lot as well, and also worked better mechanically.


    As far as making additional powers/animations at this time - this is very unlikely. We are spending a lot of time and effort right now on finishing Wind AND Earth, as well as the Comic Series, and we have already started work on releases for early next year. Getting the existing Wind and Earth powers finished will take all of the time we have available to be able to release these sets.

    Of course, just as our other frameworks receive new powers from time to time, I'm sure Wind and Earth will receive more powers down the road as well.

    Thanks again for all the feedback everyone. We should have a new build hitting PTS soon, with additional Wind changes and hopefully the Earth framework as well.

    YAY! But wait.. does that mean you guys don't have anymore wind powers hidden away? :O

    Also.. what is this business with the toon slot cap? How is that going to work and will it hit live? I doubt you'll be able to respond with all your work but I figured I'd give it a shot.:o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Zellgarith wrote:
    hey AME how about some more crippling challenge and challenging strikes advantages across the powers not just wind but all of the sets.

    Imo they should just make it a protector role baseline thing for every used attack, and remove those advantages altogether. Would save them lots of time trying to add those advantages to powers in future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Kien. wrote:
    Imo they should just make it a protector role baseline thing for every used attack, and remove those advantages altogether. Would save them lots of time trying to add those advantages to powers in future.
    Because invul / dodge tanks need buffs in pvp........
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    If we use Earth, Wind and Fire powers in order of mention, does anything cool happen?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Brou wrote:
    If we use Earth, Wind and Fire powers in order of mention, does anything cool happen?

    You might be missing heart though =S
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    You might be missing heart though =S

    they were making reference to the band "Earth, Wind and Fire"

    and you were missing Water in your reference ^_^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Because invul / dodge tanks need buffs in pvp........

    What the...
    Ofc i meant only pve side of those advantages lol

    /faceclaw
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Because invul / dodge tanks need buffs in pvp........

    What they could do is bake the block breaking and damage mitigation effects of Crippling Challenge into T0 powers. People complain(justly) that T0s are useless, and this would make them worthwhile. Also, all ATs come with a T0 right now, so its not like they'd have to rebalance the ATs.

    Protector role can then gain the extra threat that those advantages previously afforded.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well for water we can substitute ice, just for the time being of course (HINTHINT) and I'd say psi will do for Heart ( just use chest emanation point)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    PsionCCC wrote:
    Doesn't anyone think there should be a mist power? Maybe a maintain PBAoE Stealth like the radiant sacntuary sigils... except actually effective of course :P

    Yum, this i like. London Fog.. just use the smoke grenade FX and an animation making the toon put up its hands, lol. Reskins are easy right champions online?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Debris gets pushed away in the process of the abrassive force colliding with the flat surface area. It's kinda why most boards and such remain intact or split in two. Crushing or really Smashing requires direct non-penetrating force. All cutting tools require abrasion. The Gattling Gun example you mentioned have the bullets piercing through, and should they not. Repeated blows chip away, yes; also resulting in an abrasive force against the object. Which is why the chainsaw power makes sense as slashing rather than piercing even if the the sawblade is jabbed directly into a person. The abrasion is what cuts through. Otherwise a chainsaw is really just a glorified hammer. The sharpness of the object is to localize the area of the abrasion, but like a knife is still a club to an iron plate.

    The distinction between slashing/piercing/crushing is derived from fantasy RPG settings, where you have plate armor. How the attack effects plate armor is how it is designated.

    Slashing - Your standard cutting attack. Anything designated slashing damage would have little to no effect against plate armor. Plate armor is effectively like being coated with a shield.

    Piercing - This is designated differently because piercing is more effective against plate armor. This is because plate armor has sections, the spot between those sections is the sweet spot for a piercing attack bypassing the armor. This is why armor also included chain armor underneath.

    Crushing - This attack attempts to deform the armor and use the armor against itself. If you crush the armor, it protrudes inward, forming dents that attack and pierce the wearer. It also incurs concussive damage, disabling the opponent.

    In the case of a chainsaw, the simplest answer is slashing, because it simply wouldn't pierce between armor plates. Now, it would have a tearing effect on plate armor, but fantasy settings simply never considered those effects because they didn't exist.

    It's useful to know these distinctions, because they've been arch-typed that way for so long, people naturally tend to categorize this way and have no knowledge why.

    Arguments for damage type can be subjective when you consider how they affect an unarmored object. However, that's not how these distinctions have been formed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Xaade wrote:
    The distinction between slashing/piercing/crushing is derived from fantasy RPG settings, where you have plate armor. How the attack effects plate armor is how it is designated.

    Slashing - Your standard cutting attack. Anything designated slashing damage would have little to no effect against plate armor. Plate armor is effectively like being coated with a shield.

    Piercing - This is designated differently because piercing is more effective against plate armor. This is because plate armor has sections, the spot between those sections is the sweet spot for a piercing attack bypassing the armor. This is why armor also included chain armor underneath.

    Crushing - This attack attempts to deform the armor and use the armor against itself. If you crush the armor, it protrudes inward, forming dents that attack and pierce the wearer. It also incurs concussive damage, disabling the opponent.

    In the case of a chainsaw, the simplest answer is slashing, because it simply wouldn't pierce between armor plates. Now, it would have a tearing effect on plate armor, but fantasy settings simply never considered those effects because they didn't exist.

    It's useful to know these distinctions, because they've been arch-typed that way for so long, people naturally tend to categorize this way and have no knowledge why.

    Arguments for damage type can be subjective when you consider how they affect an unarmored object. However, that's not how these distinctions have been formed.

    Debate is over. I'm letting it go.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Roadwulf wrote:
    IMO: Slashing makes no sense for wind, because of the references that have been made for the cause are all about how the "wind cuts right through you"

    And that's not a reference to Slashing, thats a Refernce to the Cold Damage we already have.

    And lets not forget one other thing. Force, one of the sets that still after its pass isn't that great, and we get a complimentary set of skills and now you want to take it away? What the hell?

    Everyone is trying to equate Wind with a real-world physics-based and isolated example of wind.
    It is not the wind that is cold it is the enviroment the wind is made from that makes the cold colder or the hot hotter for that matter. There are winds on Jupiter and Venus that rage at hundreds of miles-per-hour and they are hundreds-to-thousands of degrees in temperature because that is the surrounding ambient temperature.

    Wind here on Earth is nothing but +Force if you want to use a SS as an example. Throw in temperature variations and you have amplified cold or heat (example: cold windchill in Antarctica or amplified heat in a fan oven), throw in matter and you have blown along debris causing erosion, crushing or slashing.

    Ok, science lesson over. - *rings bell for playtime*
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Brou wrote:
    If we use Earth, Wind and Fire powers in order of mention, does anything cool happen?

    On every 10th hit, it deploys a party bomb and plays "September".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Release the new patch already. Cant wait to check what advantages get added!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    renegadejg wrote:
    Release the new patch already. Cant wait to check what advantages get added!!!

    Not to mention Earth ^_^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Everyone is trying to equate Wind with a real-world physics-based and isolated example of wind.
    It is not the wind that is cold it is the enviroment the wind is made from that makes the cold colder or the hot hotter for that matter. There are winds on Jupiter and Venus that rage at hundreds of miles-per-hour and they are hundreds-to-thousands of degrees in temperature because that is the surrounding ambient temperature.

    Wind here on Earth is nothing but +Force if you want to use a SS as an example. Throw in temperature variations and you have amplified cold or heat (example: cold windchill in Antarctica or amplified heat in a fan oven), throw in matter and you have blown along debris causing erosion, crushing or slashing.

    Ok, science lesson over. - *rings bell for playtime*

    That's not really what wind is scientifically.

    Heat transfer (aside from radiative heat transfer) is always through conduction, direct contact. Once you transfer heat from one thing to another, the two are closer in temperature, eventually approaching equilibrium with each other. When you add bulk flow of a fluid (ie wind) you get what is called advection, where the now warmed or cooled fluid moves away from the surface that was conducting to it. When both of these things happen at once, you get the portmanteau "convection." It can't "amplify" cold or heat, all it does is accelerate the rate of conduction by guaranteeing that the conductive surface is always exposed to fluid that is as far from temperature equilibrium as possible. The max effect of wind (temperature-wise) will ALWAYS be only the ambient temperature. So if it's 12 C out, and you're 35 C (normal body temp), the max effect wind could ever have on you is making you really cold (12 C), not "freezing" you (0 C).

    Also, Jupiter's surface is -150 C. The core is thought to be 35k C.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    mirth81 wrote:
    On every 10th hit, it deploys a party bomb and plays "September".

    3 cheers and a tiger for you! (+5 internets in current terminology)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Brou wrote:
    If we use Earth, Wind and Fire powers in order of mention, does anything cool happen?

    This might happen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Malvourus wrote:

    Then... yeah, Cryptic don't do this... ^_^
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