I wouldn't want Wind attacks to be Slashing-with-Bleeds by default; but I could definitely see them getting Advantages to that effect: with the proper Ads, they kick up debris which in turn cuts the target.
I could also see them doing Sonic damage by default: while Wind and Sound aren't technically the same thing, they're close. Note also how Sonic Blaster's secondary effect is a knockback, and the singing cowboy's wail does sonic damage and a repel.
Serious question:
Does wind ever cause slashing damage in real life??
Granted, i have seen this before in anime and video games but i never really wrapped my head around wind "cutting" me.
a) CO isn't real life
b) While the wind doesn't cause slashing damage, little sharp objects (like shards of glass or rock fragments) being blown about by the wind do.
a) CO isn't real life
b) While the wind doesn't cause slashing damage, little sharp objects (like shards of glass or rock fragments) being blown about by the wind do.
You could make the same argument for Telekinesis being slashing, by that logic. :]
They should call the AT "The Stormfront" or "The Noreaster". Perhaps "The Hurricane" or "The Tornado".
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
They should call the AT "The Stormfront" or "The Noreaster". Perhaps "The Hurricane" or "The Tornado".
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't associate the word squall with the truth of what it is: A powerful localized stormfront that happens with little warning. Rain, frequent lightning strikes, large hailstones, and 80+ MPH winds are not uncommon.
I can see why ranged slashing damage would be good to add, because it isn't there yet as far as I know... but I don't think that wind is the set to do it with :P
I'm pretty impressed so far with the powers, particularly squall, and I hope their advantages are good too whenever they get hooked up.
I'm also in the same boat of thinking that Stormbringer should have another effect besides damage boosting, I'd suggest it makes repels stronger; scaling with superstats. (Especially as Invocation of Storm Calling and Crushing Wave's repels are pityful, compared to say Squall, and this would give them a boost too as I'm sure people are likely to use them alongside wind powers for their concepts)
Not a huge fan of the gust charge-up animation, or the typhoon power animation. (Although I love typhoon's effect, I think it's hilarious. And the damage is superb) I also think that updraft could do with a different casting animation, perhaps using the one that characters use to summon sigils? Timing the rising of the arms with the updraft, of course
They should call the AT "The Stormfront" or "The Noreaster". Perhaps "The Hurricane" or "The Tornado".
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
In all seriousness, really liking the new wind set. Thematically, I wouldn't mind a windy version of force snap, either, just so I can toss people EVERYWHERE with the wind.
Does wind ever cause slashing damage in real life??
Not the wind itself, rather it is the debris carried by strong winds that can caused damage. I am sure you can find some images of tornado winds driving seemingly soft/harmless objects into wood and other harder objects, so from that point of view it makes some sense. My objection to that would be that the wind set might become to diluted by trying to do, or use, so many types of damage.
Not the wind itself, rather it is the debris carried by strong winds that can caused damage. I am sure you can find some images of tornado winds driving seemingly soft/harmless objects into wood and other harder objects, so from that point of view it makes some sense. My objection to that would be that the wind set might become to diluted by trying to do, or use, so many types of damage.
Swap crushing for slashing and keep the Cold/elec secondary in various places.
You can argue it either way, TBH
However, we have NO ranged slashing in the game, and that would make wind a much more diverse set, with the massive overload of crushing we already have (Force is already ranged crushing.)
That said, we also don't have a set dedicated to Sonic damage; and I could make just as strong of a case for Wind powers doing Sonic damage as for Wind powers doing Slashing damage.
I don't understand how ppl can possibly think of Wind doing slashing damage: it's a soft and flexible mass, just like water; the only thing it can do is blow, pressure, suffocate and...crush. The only way to do slashing damage would be to have metal slices, wood slices or stones in it (and for significant damage must be quite a lot) I see those possible only in tornado flight. As for Stormbringer, it's supposed to create a jack of all trades offensive passive for the energy projector framework in the first place, hence the possible synergies with Force.
That's why I'm thinking more along the lines of sonic damage: conceptually, it's a reasonably close fit (closer than slashing, and arguably as close as crushing); and mechanically, it gives us a set that deals primarily with that damage type.
I don't understand how ppl can possibly think of Wind doing slashing damage: it's a soft and flexible mass, just like water; the only thing it can do is blow, pressure, suffocate and...crush. The only way to do slashing damage would be to have metal slices, wood slices or stones in it (and for significant damage must be quite a lot) I see those possible only in tornado flight. As for Stormbringer, it's supposed to create a jack of all trades offensive passive for the energy projector framework in the first place, hence the possible synergies with Force.
Someone has obviously never been lashed by high speed wind. I mean cmon, im in wales and everyday I often end up with small cuts on my neck when the wind causes my headphones cable to whip my neck constantly.
I don't understand how ppl can possibly think of Wind doing slashing damage: it's a soft and flexible mass, just like water; the only thing it can do is blow, pressure, suffocate and...crush. The only way to do slashing damage would be to have metal slices, wood slices or stones in it (and for significant damage must be quite a lot) I see those possible only in tornado flight. As for Stormbringer, it's supposed to create a jack of all trades offensive passive for the energy projector framework in the first place, hence the possible synergies with Force.
It's not a soft flexible mass. Wind is the movement of small atmospheric particles and water vapor caused by variations in pressure in a given area. Those atmospheric particles and water vapor in and of itself can be concentrated into a piercing/slashing force, or dispersed into an impact force. Just like any matter.
When speaking of soft fexible masses, that refers to materials like rubber, textiles and spongy materials.
Here's why Wind is thought of as producing slashing effects:
I'm personally not asking for bleed, just the damage type to be changed to Slashing. Things do not need to Bleed from being Slashed at. Repel works fine and makes it unique. Slashing an adjective to describe the motion/effects of the physical force being applied.
Regarding synergies with Force. There's already Force. Wind is even referred to as originally just a reskin of Force. Vile Chains in Infernal are reskins of the Iron Chains in Might (originally part of the Supernatural framework), and mechanically the only difference is damage type and some recently added additional effects with the Infernal Review.
Reason Infernal even got "Toxic" damage was because people thought of Toxic energy rather than Dimensional or Magic, they wanted to fill a need for a Toxic set and it seemed appropiate to enough people to do so. There's almost no Elemental powers in the Mystic family so the powers have little to cherry pick from in there (Celestial/Darkness = Dimensional; Sorcery = Magic w/ few exceptions & Bestial = Slashing).
Though take the chains away and Infernal is just Darkness; Force; Electricity; Ice or Fire with a different Damage Type and a variation on the mechanics. Wind however is currently just reskinned copy Force powers with some different options. So players who cherry pick Wind would most likely only do so cause they want to make viable Force/Electric/Ice characters, or purely concept based characters. Resulting in almost the same issue that Supernatural had at launch that caused the split to Bestial & Infernal in being a cherry picking power pool and not it's own complete power set.
I've read feedback in this thread where people are questioning picking Typhoon when they feel Force Cascade is better; well the same could actually be said for practically every power in the set minus Stormbringer cause they're really just reskins.
Should Wind use slashing damage, we'd have Force powers for ranged Crushing and a (reskinned) Force variant for ranged Slashing and have an equal amount of compatible melee sets to each damage type.
Serious question:
Does wind ever cause slashing damage in real life??
Granted, i have seen this before in anime and video games but i never really wrapped my head around wind "cutting" me.
Unless you're talking about the actual air pressure doing direct damage to things, then what most people think of as "wind" is the result of what said wind is carrying:
High pressure air + small particles = sand blasting
There are also various "air cannons" that can propel a wide variety of things. Heck, didn't the Mythbusters use an air cannon to fire a piece of straw into a tree or something?
I'm sure that high enough pressure air sending abrasive particles through a narrow enough jet could "cut" things just as well as any blade...
Unless you're talking about the actual air pressure doing direct damage to things, then what most people think of as "wind" is the result of what said wind is carrying:
High pressure air + small particles = sand blasting
There are also various "air cannons" that can propel a wide variety of things. Heck, didn't the Mythbusters use an air cannon to fire a piece of straw into a tree or something?
I'm sure that high enough pressure air sending abrasive particles through a narrow enough jet could "cut" things just as well as any blade...
Yup, also a plasma cutting torch falls under this same category as well, only using an electric arc to superheat and ionize the pressure air.
They should call the AT "The Stormfront" or "The Noreaster". Perhaps "The Hurricane" or "The Tornado".
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
As a non native english speaker, i must say, i only heard the word "squall" ever in the name of the movie
"white squall". And that is translated here to something water orientated like "rapid tide" . So i really was
wondering what that had to do with wind. Also the word simply sounds odd to me
They should call the AT "The Stormfront" or "The Noreaster". Perhaps "The Hurricane" or "The Tornado".
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
The microburst or the gale or the derecho? ^^; I have no problems with the name actually but the name of the AT being the name of a power is kind of strange. Tempest would have been great but for whatever reason they gave that to Electricity....
Serious question:
Does wind ever cause slashing damage in real life??
Granted, i have seen this before in anime and video games but i never really wrapped my head around wind "cutting" me.
Also for the idea of wind being "slashing" is the idea that wind can be compressed to such a degree that it can slice. Of course this is normally through forms of magic within games or so I've seen... My brother used to work at a company where they'd use high pressured water to cut through metal. So that could be slashing too if you think about it. I also don't think using air in such a way would have much different results honestly but it'd be more artificial and imo crushing seems to suit it much better.
I really don't think anyone will mind if you guys switch Wind's damage from crushing to slashing? o-o
I would.
Now I can use my Electric/Force character with Damage bonus on the Force Parts. I was so excited by Storm Bringer, if you guys get it changed I'm gonna be p***ed.
Should Wind use slashing damage, we'd have Force powers for ranged Crushing and a (reskinned) Force variant for ranged Slashing and have an equal amount of compatible melee sets to each damage type.
I'll be disappointed if Earth turns out to be a Melee set: I'm hoping that its placement with the Bricks has more to do with synergies such as Rage and Defiance and less to do with being primarily Melee. But that just unbalances things further toward Crushing: 3/3 vs. 4/0.
And again, Sonic doesn't have any sets right now, melee or ranged.
I really don't think anyone will mind if you guys switch Wind's damage from crushing to slashing? o-o
Going to have to throw toss my hat in the "I would" pile too. If there's any damage type that deserves some love, it's Sonic. Since I don't see that happening, I'm really hoping for Crushing so that my Force-Electric character will now have a good passive to lean on and be compatible across sets. Selfish, yes, but I still don't see Wind as inherently slashing.
That said, we are really jabbering about the damage type too much. It should be the least of our concerns with the set, shouldn't it? There are a lot of underperformers here, with the mechanics (disorient) currently lacking.
I'll be disappointed if Earth turns out to be a Melee set: I'm hoping that its placement with the Bricks has more to do with synergies such as Rage and Defiance and less to do with being primarily Melee. But that just unbalances things further toward Crushing: 3/3 vs. 4/0.
And again, Sonic doesn't have any sets right now, melee or ranged.
Well put. :]
As for Earth, word was that it would be a melee & short range set. I expect a balance of melee-ranged, mid-ranged (something there is little of), and standard 50' ranged attacks.
Isn't Disorient that new status type that was introduced in Heavy Weapon? If we buff it, we buff Heavy Weapon; if we replace it with something else (but what?), we reduce potential Wind/HW synergies not a big loss, admittedly (Personally, I'm not sure what the conceptual difference between Disorient and Stun is.)
Disorient is seen in HW and Telepathy. It pops up a few other places, but those are the big two. It's a minor damage output debuff combined with a minor snare, but it does not stack. It's not bad itself, just that the Wind set isn't currently making much use of it.
I'm not sure why the idea of slashing and wind going together surprises some, as my impression is that it is a concept used in Comic books, with obvious relevance to this game, as well as being commonplace in anime, manga, and video games.
As far as the more realistic idea of sand and flying particulate causing that type of damage, that, to me, seemed readily associated with the "Dust Devil" power at least. Perhaps Earth is intended to have a "Sand Storm" type power somewhere in it, and that's why it was missing if it isn't planned for an Advantage in Wind?
This has been something on my mind since shortly after I began playing, imagining Wind powers, and along with my thoughts on passives, synergies, bleeding, and power appearance modification.
...
Anyway, having been able to run the PTS build long enough to try powers in the Power House:
I am fond of the graphics effects used (I assume some powers have effects missing, but there are many "gust" visual effects already).
A while ago, I mentioned how I found Crushing Wave's graphics lacking, and I think these are generally better than what I described, but I still think Crushing Wave should look as I described (using small "force wake" type graphics like used for some melee attacks and, in larger form, for Force Cascade instead of the TK Wave one-dimensional graphic), to fit "Force" a bit better, even though it is functionally somewhat redundant with the type of things Wind is doing. Though, come to think of it, I didn't check to see if there were any changes to Crushing Wave yet.
I realize that repel and snare are indeed a key mechanism of the way the powers were implemented, and I think it successfully establishes a unique "feel" to the set. However, I was disappointed in Yet Another Offensive Passive, though...this is another case of the mechanisms being broken or not in place for having this set interact with existing Energy Projection passives (with plenty of Offensive Passives among them), and I think it is a shame: I think the idea of Fiery Form, Ice Form, and Electric Form interacting with some wind powers would have been pretty exciting.
I would have wished for the passive to be a Support passive that enhanced things along the lines of "fanning flames", "wind chill", "electrostatic friction', etc, and with some positional Control enhancement.
Is Energy Storm interacting with any Wind framework mechanism? Can some info be shared on the thoughts regarding its revamp, which I think must have been prompted by working on the Wind framework?
...
Further thoughts:
I continue to be concerned by power redundancy and there being a lack of new game mechanics that work across frameworks rather than framework specific limitation mechanics tied to damage boosting.
For example, if DoTs weren't a problematic mechanism, I'd think one way Wind could offer a new gameplay type to keep the game and framework/build exploration interesting would be to extend and/or trigger additional DoT ticks. Bleeding would be the wider framework mechanism that worked with this, where cuts made by wind would bleed more freely and/or wind suction would draw blood out (though I will point out I don't think this should be on every power as some seem to have taken it), but this would conceptually work with the Energy Projection group of sets in ways that make sense (wind "fanning flames" to enhance Flame DoT, providing "wind chill factor" to enhance Cold structure DoTs, creating static electricity to enhance electric DoT, and enhancing knocks and/or delaying recovery from being knocked for Force).
Again: I recognize that DoTs are not capable of offering this utility as they are (last time I checked), but as I've said before, I think that is a problem in itself. I do feel repeated additions of Offensive passives that do similar things but are just tied to specific damage types and specific mechanisms is an example of Archetypes guiding development...aside from Disorient, open framework mechanisms seem to be avoided or are left as problematic as new frameworks and powers are built to fit in one specific isolated gap.
Doesn't anyone think there should be a mist power? Maybe a maintain PBAoE Stealth like the radiant sacntuary sigils... except actually effective of course :P
I already suggested reskinning Vapor Form to work like other Wind powers rather than an Ice power: just change the damage type from Cold to whatever Wind ends up using (Crushing, right now).
I already suggested reskinning Vapor Form to work like other Wind powers rather than an Ice power: just change the damage type from Cold to whatever Wind ends up using (Crushing, right now).
Going to have to throw toss my hat in the "I would" pile too. If there's any damage type that deserves some love, it's Sonic. Since I don't see that happening, I'm really hoping for Crushing so that my Force-Electric character will now have a good passive to lean on and be compatible across sets. Selfish, yes, but I still don't see Wind as inherently slashing.
That said, we are really jabbering about the damage type too much. It should be the least of our concerns with the set, shouldn't it? There are a lot of underperformers here, with the mechanics (disorient) currently lacking.
Ah, cool that answered my question regarding what you originally mean't by Sonic earlier in the thread. I getcha now. Thanks!
Outside of that, It seems that a majority of those who'd are opting to keep it as Crushing have existing Force/Electric or Force/Ice that'd want take advantage of the passive. Here's a question for you guys, if they just released Stormbringer as is and no other powers (ie: just included it in the Force or Electric tree) would it satisfy the "needs" of those characters?
Regarding damage type; Tell you the truth, I think the only power combinations that would be effected is whether one would choose Demolish>Below the Belt or Aspect of the Bestial. That's pretty much it.
Force/Electric/Ice characters get a new option with Stormbringer, though if Wind never came out, that didn't stop them from rolling one in the first place, which is why I brought up the question above.
Is Energy Storm interacting with any Wind framework mechanism? Can some info be shared on the thoughts regarding its revamp, which I think must have been prompted by working on the Wind framework?
I think Negative Ions and Chill on some of the powers, nothing else though.
I've had a little play around with this set, and here are my conclusions so far (I have read the thread, but may repeat what others have said)
Visually:
The set looks pretty damn awesome (especially Squall. OMG. possibly the best looking power in the game right now) - I've tested the FX in all the colour groups, and they look nice no matter what colour you apply.
. Only a few of the FX so far need tweaking, IMO.
1) Typhoon looks incredibly lacklustre given its supposed to be a T3 Cylinder attack based on Force cascade.
2) Wind lash I'm not sold on the 'snake of wind' effect that is the heart of this attack. it looks too solid. - it also doesn't take the colour pick.
3) Dust Devil: Triple Threat - The vertical column of electricity is a little overpowering, and could be toned down a little. It also doesn't really say Ice either. less lightning, and more frosty, might balance it out a bit.
Gameplay:
The damage seems to be very reasonable on most of the powers, but:
1) Whirlwind seems very under par, given it has no real additional effects to counter it's low damage.
2) Squall is good. almost TOO good. as it is, it's a real meatgrinder, and coupled with the mobility it's terrifying. It's a good thing its an energy hog. - This will however be completely mitigated when the Energy on Repel unlock is added, it will be a self feeding murder-beast like Lightning storm is.
3) the set applies Disorients, but has nothing that makes further use of this status within framework.
Suggestions:
The Wind Barrier block power needs a secondary effect. perhaps a 10% chance to do a small repel pulse around you whenever taking damage? - might be too powerful with the Energy Unlock
It's great that the set plays nice with Electric and Ice, but the divided damage could do with something extra. maybe this: have 3 (yes, Three!) toggles in the set. 'Chill Wind' 'Ionic Wind' 'Gale Force' each toggle buffs the respective synergistic damage elements of the wind set thusly: (usual energy cost increases apply)
Chill wind: +15% Cold damage, +5% crushing, +5% electric, adds +10% chance to apply chill to ALL wind powers.
Ionic wind: +15% electric damage, +5% cold damage, +5% crushing, adds +10 % chance to apply Negative Ions to ALL wind attacks
Gale Force: +15% Crushing damage, + 5% cold, +5% electric, adds +10% chance to apply Disorient to ALL wind powers
these toggles will help increase the synergy with other sets, and add something interesting and unique to the set (ie, variable damage focussing through toggles)
As others have said, add an advantage to the tornado hold that draws in nearby Mobs. this would make the power a very interesting battlefield control power, allowing you to neutralise the big hitter, and group his fellows closely for the better application of a nice AoE. - this would also be a nice unique feature for the set.
From playing around with Wind for a little bit, the purpose of the set is pretty obvious: reskinned versions of pre-existing powers to placate the community's clamoring for wind powers.
I honestly don't know what else anyone was expecting. In fact, I'm pretty sure Ame even said this is exactly what Wind was going to be. However, it does look like they're interested in making it a full-fledged set, which is good. It needs better power interaction to really feel complete, though. The disorient/repel synergies are a good starting point.
That said, the set can still be used to bridge synergy gaps between sets, and is already doing so just with Stormbringer and a few of the advantages.
To continue the set bridging, I recommend giving all or almost all of the Wind powers 1-point advantages that grant a chance to apply chill or negative ions (and in the case of Triple Threat, split the advantage into separate 1-pointers so we don't pay for half of the advantage that we might not want). 1-point per secondary effect. Maybe a 1-pointer that increases chance to apply disorient too, or condenses split damage types into a single damage type (for example, turning Typhoon from Cold/Crush to Cold/Cold).
Though I suppose asking for a bunch of 1-point advantages for all of the Wind powers is as bad as asking for a bunch of ZPAs.
I'd also like to reiterate the desire for an advantage on Typhoon to trigger Ice Structure Explosions. Because I am so done with Shatter's nonsense.
I'd also like to reiterate the desire for an advantage on Typhoon to trigger Ice Structure Explosions. Because I am so done with Shatter's nonsense.
This sounds interesting and thematically sound.
Also i would have to say that slashing wind powers in this game don't make much sense because they don't seem to be designed for that. As others have said, these powers just don't look like slashing powers and don't have slashing power descriptions.
Don't get me wrong, i think wind slashing powers would be cool if they were designed from the ground up to be so, but these powers would feel unnatural and forced as slashing.
For the record, i don't have any toons that would benefit either way from whatever damage type.
From what i under stand, powers that deliver split damage are only resisted once, but i can only say for sure that this is the case if both portions of the damage are of the same damage type.
In the case of typhoon, the damage is split between 2 portions and is split between two damage types (crushing AND cold damage). Are the cold and smashing damage of typhoon resisted separately or at one time (like in ego blade breach)?
So far, the wind powers are pretty fun. I'm liking the crushing/cold damage mix, and the repels and knockbacks are fun as always. Stormbringer is also a good fit so far, especially if one tosses in a few Electrical moves to balance out a Wind-heavy loadout.
I am just now waiting to see what kinds of Advantages the powers get, as most don't seem hooked up yet.
Also, is it just me, or is the T3 power, what is it, Typhoon? Cyclone Blast? Seem to be missing most of it's FX? At the moment, it just seems to be a ball, barely smaller than the Gust blast, that somehow hits everything around the target. I guess maybe it'll get like a crazy short lived twister effect or something?
As for wind powers dealing slashing damage... enh. With the way they all look now, it seems much more appropriate for them to deal the crushing/cold damage. The one kind of power I could see dealing slashing damage would be come kind of vacuum blade power. Maybe a reskinned Ego blade combo, or some kinda crazy self contained spike of air that protrudes from the character's palm. It'd be a melee power, but maybe with an Advantage, it could be tweaked to shoot a cutting vortex of air, a la Link style blade beams. I could definitely see that power deal slashing/cold damage. Plus, it'd add a neat melee power to the new set.
And I'm kinda surprised that, making a Wind power set, no one thought of creating an airburst style power. It'd be pretty rad, I think: starts to suck in foes in a wide radius around the character, dealing minor crushing damage, then KABOOM! Fiery explosion and massive knockback.
When using Tornado Flight and charging Typhoon, the player is moved in front of the Tornado, doesn't remain in the Tornado like when using the other powers.
Speaking about Tornado Flight, how about you fix that flying stance?
All in all, I am satisfied with Wind powers.
Some animations still need a little bit of work, but I like what I see!
Kudos to the FX artist/s.
Just like others have said, add an advantage to the hold power that'd suck in nearby enemies.
Typhoon could also use a more powerful animation.
Wind is a neat set but I always imagined a wind set to have slashing damage instead of crushing. Crushing isn't too far off but I always imagined high speed "comic book" winds to be cutting and bleeding the targets.
Agreed, repeatedly. Ranged slashing is both new, and thematically glorious.
Is there any reason the Archetype couldn't just be "The Storm"?
I'd love to see advantages added to several that add a bleed or chance of bleed. Would let the set interact favorably with even more frameworks. The set already lives to bridge, let it bridge a few more.
Can we get mist form moved out of Ice and into this framework? Then looked at/repurposed as maybe an active defense or something useful? All three people who have it now won't mind that much.
Any chance of another wind pet? Don't get me wrong dust devil is quite the useful little trinket, but any chance of a controllable type of wind pet?
What would that even be? Maybe at higher levels, a genie of some sort, I guess, but at lower levels? Hmmm.
Anyways, I noticed the animation for the Gust power seems to pretty much be the same one for Double Palm Strike. Maybe it'd look better if it was the same as Rebuke? Just a thought.
Agreed, repeatedly. Ranged slashing is both new, and thematically glorious.
But all the current wind powers that have an effect do either repel (implying a blunt force pushing at them), disorient (implying hitting them so hard with a blunt object or blunt force that they're disoriented) or knock (implying a blunt force pushing at them hard).
For slashing wind, we'd need something like slender, straight-line gusts of wind, or maybe something like a gigantic Storm Tornado (from Megaman X). The swirling column of wind thing.
Also, there's hardly any way to buff slashing at the moment that isn't melee. And if you include a debuff to reduce slashing damage resistance on a target, the anti-DW people will have a rage-induced aneurysm. And if it only works with ranged slashing, that means it only works with Wind, further killing intra-set synergies.
While I'd like for there to be a ranged Slashing set, the current implementation of the Wind powers doesn't really seem to be the place for it. And I doubt we'll get them to do an entire rework.
A Sonic damage set would be nice too, but I'd rather it be its own separate thing instead of shoe-horned into an elemental damage/repel set that gets one pass and that's it. There's far too much potential there for things other than direct damage for it to be relegated to being "ranged elemental energy blaster set #5."
Who says that Wind is only going to get one pass? And the potential there for things other than direct damage means that the set is expandable. They recently added new powers to Gadgeteer; no reason they can't do the same for Wind.
And personally, I prefer a few power sets with broadly-defined powers to many power sets with narrowly-defined powers. The fewer boundaries you have to cross when mixing and matching, the easier it is to mix and match.
Comments
I could also see them doing Sonic damage by default: while Wind and Sound aren't technically the same thing, they're close. Note also how Sonic Blaster's secondary effect is a knockback, and the singing cowboy's wail does sonic damage and a repel.
Does wind ever cause slashing damage in real life??
Granted, i have seen this before in anime and video games but i never really wrapped my head around wind "cutting" me.
a) CO isn't real life
b) While the wind doesn't cause slashing damage, little sharp objects (like shards of glass or rock fragments) being blown about by the wind do.
You could make the same argument for Telekinesis being slashing, by that logic. :]
"The Funnel Cloud" or "The Cyclone" could also work. "The Gust" or "The Twister" aren't bad. Heck, even "The Monsoon" sounds better than "The Squall" IMO.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't associate the word squall with the truth of what it is: A powerful localized stormfront that happens with little warning. Rain, frequent lightning strikes, large hailstones, and 80+ MPH winds are not uncommon.
Here's a video of a rapidly developing squall.
I'm pretty impressed so far with the powers, particularly squall, and I hope their advantages are good too whenever they get hooked up.
I'm also in the same boat of thinking that Stormbringer should have another effect besides damage boosting, I'd suggest it makes repels stronger; scaling with superstats. (Especially as Invocation of Storm Calling and Crushing Wave's repels are pityful, compared to say Squall, and this would give them a boost too as I'm sure people are likely to use them alongside wind powers for their concepts)
Not a huge fan of the gust charge-up animation, or the typhoon power animation. (Although I love typhoon's effect, I think it's hilarious. And the damage is superb) I also think that updraft could do with a different casting animation, perhaps using the one that characters use to summon sigils? Timing the rising of the arms with the updraft, of course
In response...
In all seriousness, really liking the new wind set. Thematically, I wouldn't mind a windy version of force snap, either, just so I can toss people EVERYWHERE with the wind.
Not the wind itself, rather it is the debris carried by strong winds that can caused damage. I am sure you can find some images of tornado winds driving seemingly soft/harmless objects into wood and other harder objects, so from that point of view it makes some sense. My objection to that would be that the wind set might become to diluted by trying to do, or use, so many types of damage.
Swap crushing for slashing and keep the Cold/elec secondary in various places.
You can argue it either way, TBH
However, we have NO ranged slashing in the game, and that would make wind a much more diverse set, with the massive overload of crushing we already have (Force is already ranged crushing.)
It's not a soft flexible mass. Wind is the movement of small atmospheric particles and water vapor caused by variations in pressure in a given area. Those atmospheric particles and water vapor in and of itself can be concentrated into a piercing/slashing force, or dispersed into an impact force. Just like any matter.
When speaking of soft fexible masses, that refers to materials like rubber, textiles and spongy materials.
Here's why Wind is thought of as producing slashing effects:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus-category/british/Describing-and-measuring-the-wind
I'm personally not asking for bleed, just the damage type to be changed to Slashing. Things do not need to Bleed from being Slashed at. Repel works fine and makes it unique. Slashing an adjective to describe the motion/effects of the physical force being applied.
Regarding synergies with Force. There's already Force. Wind is even referred to as originally just a reskin of Force. Vile Chains in Infernal are reskins of the Iron Chains in Might (originally part of the Supernatural framework), and mechanically the only difference is damage type and some recently added additional effects with the Infernal Review.
Reason Infernal even got "Toxic" damage was because people thought of Toxic energy rather than Dimensional or Magic, they wanted to fill a need for a Toxic set and it seemed appropiate to enough people to do so. There's almost no Elemental powers in the Mystic family so the powers have little to cherry pick from in there (Celestial/Darkness = Dimensional; Sorcery = Magic w/ few exceptions & Bestial = Slashing).
Though take the chains away and Infernal is just Darkness; Force; Electricity; Ice or Fire with a different Damage Type and a variation on the mechanics. Wind however is currently just reskinned copy Force powers with some different options. So players who cherry pick Wind would most likely only do so cause they want to make viable Force/Electric/Ice characters, or purely concept based characters. Resulting in almost the same issue that Supernatural had at launch that caused the split to Bestial & Infernal in being a cherry picking power pool and not it's own complete power set.
I've read feedback in this thread where people are questioning picking Typhoon when they feel Force Cascade is better; well the same could actually be said for practically every power in the set minus Stormbringer cause they're really just reskins.
Here's something else to consider:
Slashing Sets
4 Powersets: 4 Melee 0 Ranged: (Claws/Bestial/Single Blade/Dual Blades)
vs. Crushing Sets
6 Powersets: 4 Melee 2 Ranged: (Unarmed/Might/Heavy Weapons/"Earth"/Force/Wind)
Should Wind use slashing damage, we'd have Force powers for ranged Crushing and a (reskinned) Force variant for ranged Slashing and have an equal amount of compatible melee sets to each damage type.
They're mostly Piercing or Particle with 1 or 2 powers that do either Crushing or Crushing/Fire damage.
Shotgun and Micro Munitions are Crushing
Rocket and Shoulder Launcher are Crushing/Fire
Good catch!
Unless you're talking about the actual air pressure doing direct damage to things, then what most people think of as "wind" is the result of what said wind is carrying:
High pressure air + small particles = sand blasting
There are also various "air cannons" that can propel a wide variety of things. Heck, didn't the Mythbusters use an air cannon to fire a piece of straw into a tree or something?
I'm sure that high enough pressure air sending abrasive particles through a narrow enough jet could "cut" things just as well as any blade...
Yup, also a plasma cutting torch falls under this same category as well, only using an electric arc to superheat and ionize the pressure air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2XmlFNc7L4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJydOxHwZU
ANYTHING better than...
...The Squall
As a non native english speaker, i must say, i only heard the word "squall" ever in the name of the movie
"white squall". And that is translated here to something water orientated like "rapid tide" . So i really was
wondering what that had to do with wind. Also the word simply sounds odd to me
The microburst or the gale or the derecho? ^^; I have no problems with the name actually but the name of the AT being the name of a power is kind of strange. Tempest would have been great but for whatever reason they gave that to Electricity....
Also for the idea of wind being "slashing" is the idea that wind can be compressed to such a degree that it can slice. Of course this is normally through forms of magic within games or so I've seen... My brother used to work at a company where they'd use high pressured water to cut through metal. So that could be slashing too if you think about it. I also don't think using air in such a way would have much different results honestly but it'd be more artificial and imo crushing seems to suit it much better.
I would.
Now I can use my Electric/Force character with Damage bonus on the Force Parts. I was so excited by Storm Bringer, if you guys get it changed I'm gonna be p***ed.
I'd mind too.
None of the current wind powers (except maybe whirlwind) really fit graphically with any sort of "slashing" wind.
They're all brute-force pushing.
And again, Sonic doesn't have any sets right now, melee or ranged.
I don't care too much about the damage type though.
As for the name of the AT?
"The Zephyr."
OK it's kind of ironic, but the name sounds cool.
"The Sirocco"
That has a bit more oomph.
That said, we are really jabbering about the damage type too much. It should be the least of our concerns with the set, shouldn't it? There are a lot of underperformers here, with the mechanics (disorient) currently lacking.
Well put. :]
As for Earth, word was that it would be a melee & short range set. I expect a balance of melee-ranged, mid-ranged (something there is little of), and standard 50' ranged attacks.
As far as the more realistic idea of sand and flying particulate causing that type of damage, that, to me, seemed readily associated with the "Dust Devil" power at least. Perhaps Earth is intended to have a "Sand Storm" type power somewhere in it, and that's why it was missing if it isn't planned for an Advantage in Wind?
This has been something on my mind since shortly after I began playing, imagining Wind powers, and along with my thoughts on passives, synergies, bleeding, and power appearance modification.
...
Anyway, having been able to run the PTS build long enough to try powers in the Power House:
A while ago, I mentioned how I found Crushing Wave's graphics lacking, and I think these are generally better than what I described, but I still think Crushing Wave should look as I described (using small "force wake" type graphics like used for some melee attacks and, in larger form, for Force Cascade instead of the TK Wave one-dimensional graphic), to fit "Force" a bit better, even though it is functionally somewhat redundant with the type of things Wind is doing. Though, come to think of it, I didn't check to see if there were any changes to Crushing Wave yet.
I would have wished for the passive to be a Support passive that enhanced things along the lines of "fanning flames", "wind chill", "electrostatic friction', etc, and with some positional Control enhancement.
...
Further thoughts:
I continue to be concerned by power redundancy and there being a lack of new game mechanics that work across frameworks rather than framework specific limitation mechanics tied to damage boosting.
Again: I recognize that DoTs are not capable of offering this utility as they are (last time I checked), but as I've said before, I think that is a problem in itself. I do feel repeated additions of Offensive passives that do similar things but are just tied to specific damage types and specific mechanisms is an example of Archetypes guiding development...aside from Disorient, open framework mechanisms seem to be avoided or are left as problematic as new frameworks and powers are built to fit in one specific isolated gap.
Ah, cool that answered my question regarding what you originally mean't by Sonic earlier in the thread. I getcha now. Thanks!
Outside of that, It seems that a majority of those who'd are opting to keep it as Crushing have existing Force/Electric or Force/Ice that'd want take advantage of the passive. Here's a question for you guys, if they just released Stormbringer as is and no other powers (ie: just included it in the Force or Electric tree) would it satisfy the "needs" of those characters?
Regarding damage type; Tell you the truth, I think the only power combinations that would be effected is whether one would choose Demolish>Below the Belt or Aspect of the Bestial. That's pretty much it.
Force/Electric/Ice characters get a new option with Stormbringer, though if Wind never came out, that didn't stop them from rolling one in the first place, which is why I brought up the question above.
I think Negative Ions and Chill on some of the powers, nothing else though.
Wind may get a different Tier 4 later.
Visually:
The set looks pretty damn awesome (especially Squall. OMG. possibly the best looking power in the game right now) - I've tested the FX in all the colour groups, and they look nice no matter what colour you apply.
. Only a few of the FX so far need tweaking, IMO.
1) Typhoon looks incredibly lacklustre given its supposed to be a T3 Cylinder attack based on Force cascade.
2) Wind lash I'm not sold on the 'snake of wind' effect that is the heart of this attack. it looks too solid. - it also doesn't take the colour pick.
3) Dust Devil: Triple Threat - The vertical column of electricity is a little overpowering, and could be toned down a little. It also doesn't really say Ice either. less lightning, and more frosty, might balance it out a bit.
Gameplay:
The damage seems to be very reasonable on most of the powers, but:
1) Whirlwind seems very under par, given it has no real additional effects to counter it's low damage.
2) Squall is good. almost TOO good. as it is, it's a real meatgrinder, and coupled with the mobility it's terrifying. It's a good thing its an energy hog. - This will however be completely mitigated when the Energy on Repel unlock is added, it will be a self feeding murder-beast like Lightning storm is.
3) the set applies Disorients, but has nothing that makes further use of this status within framework.
Suggestions:
The Wind Barrier block power needs a secondary effect. perhaps a 10% chance to do a small repel pulse around you whenever taking damage? - might be too powerful with the Energy Unlock
It's great that the set plays nice with Electric and Ice, but the divided damage could do with something extra. maybe this: have 3 (yes, Three!) toggles in the set. 'Chill Wind' 'Ionic Wind' 'Gale Force' each toggle buffs the respective synergistic damage elements of the wind set thusly: (usual energy cost increases apply)
Chill wind: +15% Cold damage, +5% crushing, +5% electric, adds +10% chance to apply chill to ALL wind powers.
Ionic wind: +15% electric damage, +5% cold damage, +5% crushing, adds +10 % chance to apply Negative Ions to ALL wind attacks
Gale Force: +15% Crushing damage, + 5% cold, +5% electric, adds +10% chance to apply Disorient to ALL wind powers
these toggles will help increase the synergy with other sets, and add something interesting and unique to the set (ie, variable damage focussing through toggles)
As others have said, add an advantage to the tornado hold that draws in nearby Mobs. this would make the power a very interesting battlefield control power, allowing you to neutralise the big hitter, and group his fellows closely for the better application of a nice AoE. - this would also be a nice unique feature for the set.
I honestly don't know what else anyone was expecting. In fact, I'm pretty sure Ame even said this is exactly what Wind was going to be. However, it does look like they're interested in making it a full-fledged set, which is good. It needs better power interaction to really feel complete, though. The disorient/repel synergies are a good starting point.
That said, the set can still be used to bridge synergy gaps between sets, and is already doing so just with Stormbringer and a few of the advantages.
To continue the set bridging, I recommend giving all or almost all of the Wind powers 1-point advantages that grant a chance to apply chill or negative ions (and in the case of Triple Threat, split the advantage into separate 1-pointers so we don't pay for half of the advantage that we might not want). 1-point per secondary effect. Maybe a 1-pointer that increases chance to apply disorient too, or condenses split damage types into a single damage type (for example, turning Typhoon from Cold/Crush to Cold/Cold).
Though I suppose asking for a bunch of 1-point advantages for all of the Wind powers is as bad as asking for a bunch of ZPAs.
I'd also like to reiterate the desire for an advantage on Typhoon to trigger Ice Structure Explosions. Because I am so done with Shatter's nonsense.
Its okay, one day they'll revert shatter to pre-f2p
Also i would have to say that slashing wind powers in this game don't make much sense because they don't seem to be designed for that. As others have said, these powers just don't look like slashing powers and don't have slashing power descriptions.
Don't get me wrong, i think wind slashing powers would be cool if they were designed from the ground up to be so, but these powers would feel unnatural and forced as slashing.
For the record, i don't have any toons that would benefit either way from whatever damage type.
From what i under stand, powers that deliver split damage are only resisted once, but i can only say for sure that this is the case if both portions of the damage are of the same damage type.
In the case of typhoon, the damage is split between 2 portions and is split between two damage types (crushing AND cold damage).
Are the cold and smashing damage of typhoon resisted separately or at one time (like in ego blade breach)?
I am just now waiting to see what kinds of Advantages the powers get, as most don't seem hooked up yet.
Also, is it just me, or is the T3 power, what is it, Typhoon? Cyclone Blast? Seem to be missing most of it's FX? At the moment, it just seems to be a ball, barely smaller than the Gust blast, that somehow hits everything around the target. I guess maybe it'll get like a crazy short lived twister effect or something?
As for wind powers dealing slashing damage... enh. With the way they all look now, it seems much more appropriate for them to deal the crushing/cold damage. The one kind of power I could see dealing slashing damage would be come kind of vacuum blade power. Maybe a reskinned Ego blade combo, or some kinda crazy self contained spike of air that protrudes from the character's palm. It'd be a melee power, but maybe with an Advantage, it could be tweaked to shoot a cutting vortex of air, a la Link style blade beams. I could definitely see that power deal slashing/cold damage. Plus, it'd add a neat melee power to the new set.
And I'm kinda surprised that, making a Wind power set, no one thought of creating an airburst style power. It'd be pretty rad, I think: starts to suck in foes in a wide radius around the character, dealing minor crushing damage, then KABOOM! Fiery explosion and massive knockback.
Speaking about Tornado Flight, how about you fix that flying stance?
All in all, I am satisfied with Wind powers.
Some animations still need a little bit of work, but I like what I see!
Kudos to the FX artist/s.
Just like others have said, add an advantage to the hold power that'd suck in nearby enemies.
Typhoon could also use a more powerful animation.
Ok, then this energy unlock MUST be named "breathing room"
Really. It must.
Agreed, repeatedly. Ranged slashing is both new, and thematically glorious.
Is there any reason the Archetype couldn't just be "The Storm"?
I'd love to see advantages added to several that add a bleed or chance of bleed. Would let the set interact favorably with even more frameworks. The set already lives to bridge, let it bridge a few more.
Can we get mist form moved out of Ice and into this framework? Then looked at/repurposed as maybe an active defense or something useful? All three people who have it now won't mind that much.
What would that even be? Maybe at higher levels, a genie of some sort, I guess, but at lower levels? Hmmm.
Anyways, I noticed the animation for the Gust power seems to pretty much be the same one for Double Palm Strike. Maybe it'd look better if it was the same as Rebuke? Just a thought.
But all the current wind powers that have an effect do either repel (implying a blunt force pushing at them), disorient (implying hitting them so hard with a blunt object or blunt force that they're disoriented) or knock (implying a blunt force pushing at them hard).
For slashing wind, we'd need something like slender, straight-line gusts of wind, or maybe something like a gigantic Storm Tornado (from Megaman X). The swirling column of wind thing.
Also, there's hardly any way to buff slashing at the moment that isn't melee. And if you include a debuff to reduce slashing damage resistance on a target, the anti-DW people will have a rage-induced aneurysm. And if it only works with ranged slashing, that means it only works with Wind, further killing intra-set synergies.
While I'd like for there to be a ranged Slashing set, the current implementation of the Wind powers doesn't really seem to be the place for it. And I doubt we'll get them to do an entire rework.
A Sonic damage set would be nice too, but I'd rather it be its own separate thing instead of shoe-horned into an elemental damage/repel set that gets one pass and that's it. There's far too much potential there for things other than direct damage for it to be relegated to being "ranged elemental energy blaster set #5."
And personally, I prefer a few power sets with broadly-defined powers to many power sets with narrowly-defined powers. The fewer boundaries you have to cross when mixing and matching, the easier it is to mix and match.