There is some really good feedback. Thanks a ton.
Remember to comment on the Unarmed changes and additions and not other player feedback in this thread.
Hope you are having a good weekend
REMINDER (not directed at any one person in particular)
REMINDER (not directed at any one person in particular)
Also, I need to see your hall pass.
Seriously?
RoBoBo, please clarify - am I really not to discuss the powers with others in this thread? Because in that case I think it should just be PMs instead of in a forum, which by definition is literally "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.".
Regardless of how you feel about range/melee hybrids shuriken throw is not a very good power and becomes less and less usefull as you level up.
Shuriken Throw
If you are a Melee fighter and using Brawler role this is just not a very useful power because of its low single target damage. Considering the high damage that melee fighters have access to and the ability to move quickly with a lunge, shuriken is never the best option to do single target damage.
Cowiki has Shuriken Throw at 179 DMG per .5 tick. Thunder bolt lunge does 149 damage. This means that simply by lunging you have done almost as much damage as a Shuriken Throw, rooted (and possibly stunned) your target, and put your self in a position to use substantially more damaging melee attacks.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a single trash mob then your doing it because you want to hit him with a Shuriken, not because that's the fastest way to kill him.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a boss instead of your melee attacks then the boss will live way longer and you will take way more damage.
Brawler exception or not, Shuriken Throw does not do enough damage to make it a better option then a lunge + melee attack.
Since Shuriken Throw isn't doing substantial damage as a standalone single target damage power any way, it makes more sense to give it some utility as i stated above in post #186.
I don't have access to the numbers but i would bet that data mining would suggest that shuriken throw isn't a very popular power.
Shuriken throw is a relic from the pre-melee pass CO and it is time for a change.
Shuriken Storm
I will admit that MA fighters don't have a access to trash mob killers with this kind of range. I still think shurikens should be utility powers but i can at least see how the argument can be made for the usefulness of Shuriken Storm for AOE dmg. (even though Hundred hands is excellent AOE)
Compromise?
Change Shuriken throw to a utility power as stated before in post # 186.
let Shuriken Storm have its brawler buff at least until the ranged/melee hybrid issues can be sorted out separately.
Give a big windmill shuriken power for those that want to do high single target damage with a Shuriken.
Add a Shuriken throw energy builder smiler to Kinetic Darts for those who just want to spam low damage shurikens for whatever reason. (which is basically what shuriken throw is currently)
RoBoBo, please clarify - am I really not to discuss the powers with others in this thread? Because in that case I think it should just be PMs instead of in a forum, which by definition is literally "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.".
I'm guessing he just means this particular thread is for direct feedback and any discussions can be done in a thread in the same forum.
Suggestion: Move Dragon Kick to the Martial Arts (shared) power group allowing it to be accessable across all MA sets within the same Tier requirements and convert Leaping Uppercut to a "new" Unarmed Rush Attack.
Maybe rename it Dragon's Fist, Dragon's Wing or Dragon's Rising
Reason being since Dragon Kick being a Cartwheel, it'd have the most general use among all the sets as an alternative to their specific Rush power. Maybe rename it Dragon's Tail (just continuing the random naming brainfart)
While Leaping Uppercut also could use something special mechanically to make it more of an enticing pick up for Unarmed specific characters.
EDIT: Also just noticed TacoBomber suggested this earlier in the thread; my bad
Regardless of how you feel about range/melee hybrids shuriken throw is not a very good power and becomes less and less usefull as you level up.
Shuriken Throw
If you are a Melee fighter and using Brawler role this is just not a very useful power because of its low single target damage. Considering the high damage that melee fighters have access to and the ability to move quickly with a lunge, shuriken is never the best option to do single target damage.
Cowiki has Shuriken Throw at 179 DMG per .5 tick. Thunder bolt lunge does 149 damage. This means that simply by lunging you have done almost as much damage as a Shuriken Throw, rooted (and possibly stunned) your target, and put your self in a position to use substantially more damaging melee attacks.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a single trash mob then your doing it because you want to hit him with a Shuriken, not because that's the fastest way to kill him.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a boss instead of your melee attacks then the boss will live way longer and you will take way more damage.
Brawler exception or not, Shuriken Throw does not do enough damage to make it a better option then a lunge + melee attack.
Since Shuriken Throw isn't doing substantial damage as a standalone single target damage power any way, it makes more sense to give it some utility as i stated above in post #186.
I don't have access to the numbers but i would bet that data mining would suggest that shuriken throw isn't a very popular power.
Shuriken throw is a relic from the pre-melee pass CO and it is time for a change.
Shuriken Storm
I will admit that MA fighters don't have a access to trash mob killers with this kind of range. I still think shurikens should be utility powers but i can at least see how the argument can be made for the usefulness of Shuriken Storm for AOE dmg. (even though Hundred hands is excellent AOE)
Compromise?
Change Shuriken throw to a utility power as stated before in post # 186.
let Shuriken Storm have its brawler buff at least until the ranged/melee hybrid issues can be sorted out separately.
Give a big windmill shuriken power for those that want to do high single target damage with a Shuriken.
Add a Shuriken throw energy builder smiler to Kinetic Darts for those who just want to spam low damage shurikens for whatever reason. (which is basically what shuriken throw is currently)
I'm not sure I agree at all. My character does 661 damage with a R3 Shuriken in Brawler mode, with a .5sec activation and a miniscule 10 energy cost. If i were using rage instead of a MA form it would be a beast, even without that bonus it's still respectable damage and there are certain cases where it is superior to closing to melee range.
I'll throw my thoughts on Shuriken storm. I actually thought it was more a cone effect vs spin move. I mean I'm liking the fact the toon is throwing a barrage of shurikens but think having the toom thow the same number of shurikens in a cone would be better. But thats a damn good idea for a MA AOE attack. I'd be cool if shurikens aren't the only weapons type to throw. Knives would be a cool alternate. Loving One Hundred Hand, and Open Palm strike. Open Palm does seem a little like a fireball Ryu from Street Fighter would throw, but overall not bad.
The Overhead elbow strike audio should def be changed. The slicing audio doesn't fit the attack IMO. More of a crushing audio would be better I feel.
RoBoBo, please clarify - am I really not to discuss the powers with others in this thread? Because in that case I think it should just be PMs instead of in a forum, which by definition is literally "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.".
Risking the breaking that specific rule for a moment to explain its probable context. I don't think he means not to disagree with anyone's view point. Just don't directly reflect it in your feedback.
So for example: If you disagree with someone's viewpoint, don't directly say, it sucks. That's not productive. In your own separate feedback, say you like what has been done (if the feedback you disagree with is against the changes) or focus your feedback on how you dislike said change (should the feeback you disagree with likes said change). Feedback on the implemented change itself is what's really important here.
To provide feedback on something hasn't been implemented yet has the potential to clutter the thread with /signed posts & potential flame wars which drown out the very serious issues currently in the build by noise.
If there is something needing to really be "hashed" out, it actually could be done more effectively in the PTS - Unarmed thread under frameworks rather than the patch release notes thread.
Doesn't look very vicious. It looks more like a white belt practising strikes in the dojo. It's simply too slow.
One Hundred Hands
This one I like very much. No complaints here.
Backhand Chop
If the interrupt is the main selling point of this power, why is it a charge attack? That seems rather counterproductive.
Elbow Slam
There's no real sense of impact. Maybe if the downward motion was faster?
Leaping Uppercut
I think I need to do a bit more testing before I can comment on this one.
Open Palm Strike
Give me a skyscraper with some badguys on the roof
Rising Knee
Disappointing. I hope it's a placeholder animation. Someone mentioned Sagat earlier. I too would prefer something more Muay Thai-esque.
Shuriken Storm
I can't really think of anything to say about this one. I won't be using it because it doesn't fit my concept but that bit of information is hardly of any use to you
I used to think that the Martial Arts frameworks were starving for powers since you always had to dip into other frameworks just to use all your power points. Now it feels more like Unarmed has too many choices because I find myself wondering which powers to skip rather than what piddly crap to pick from other frameworks :rolleyes:
Shuriken Throw does middle to high damage, and is useful thorughout the the leveling curve of my characters. I admit that the prospect of losing such damage is upsetting, as on my current build I generally see betwen 700-800 damage non crit per activation of shuriken throw.
Re: Dragon Rising Uppercut (or whatever) I like the power, but it too is very specific and not that good for self-chaining animation wise. But I'll still take it over Dragon Flail.
I would rather Uppercut just disoriented or something, maybe give it an advantage "Winded!" where it takes away half of the targets max energy or something. Either way, I'd like to something new, more appropriate accross the board for the UA Dragon power for Rush.
The knee and elbow both need a little more oomph, and the elbow should be pretty hardcore - increased severity like DC? Vertebreak advantage? Bleed DoT?
Lead Tempest has a target cap. Are you certain that's not the problem?
Lead Tempest also procs (i.e. can miss). 75% change to proc at short range and 50% change to proc at long range. I want to say 5ft and 10 ft, I know my memory is acting up on me.
Shuriken Throw
If you are a Melee fighter and using Brawler role this is just not a very useful power because of its low single target damage. Considering the high damage that melee fighters have access to and the ability to move quickly with a lunge, shuriken is never the best option to do single target damage.
Cowiki has Shuriken Throw at 179 DMG per .5 tick. Thunder bolt lunge does 149 damage. This means that simply by lunging you have done almost as much damage as a Shuriken Throw, rooted (and possibly stunned) your target, and put your self in a position to use substantially more damaging melee attacks.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a single trash mob then your doing it because you want to hit him with a Shuriken, not because that's the fastest way to kill him.
If your using Shuriken Throw against a boss instead of your melee attacks then the boss will live way longer and you will take way more damage.
Brawler exception or not, Shuriken Throw does not do enough damage to make it a better option then a lunge + melee attack.
Since Shuriken Throw isn't doing substantial damage as a standalone single target damage power any way, it makes more sense to give it some utility as i stated above in post #186.
I don't have access to the numbers but i would bet that data mining would suggest that shuriken throw isn't a very popular power.
Shuriken throw is a relic from the pre-melee pass CO and it is time for a change.
- In a brawler Role, a Shuriken Throw is as strong as a tapped AR or a max damage AR tick with lower energy cost and much faster animation time. Also, with its range at 100 ft, you pretty much have a spammable high damage 100 ft attack that is as strong as range type even though you are playing a MELEE role.
- THere are many things you can do with a 100 ft and a knock down. If someone jumped toward you, throw a few shuriken. Watch as they fall down (and maybe get some fall damage) and receive around 5 extra shuriken during their trip down to the ground for more damage before you lunge in and deal the finisher. Shuriken easily fill the role of the appetizer that "might even" kill squishies. Think of it as a Force Geyser that deals great damage instead of Knocking and CC instead of NTTG. Try the same with someone running away and you can just run in pop a lunge while they're getting up.
- Shuriken laughs at Archery and Munition. The MELEE range attack is better than the RANGE range attack.
-You get to use Brawler instead of Avenger! That's already a pretty big advantage since Avenger has a pretty bad bonus and bad reduction unlike Brawler.
Range reduction and change it to an utility attack instead of a damager. Again, why the heck does a melee range power go as far as a range range power in the first place?
I'd also like the second the notion that Dragon Kick gets moved as a general MA power, since it's the only AoE dragon power in MA and a person wielding claws or swords can still kick you. Renaming Leaping Uppercut to Rising Dragon Something-or-another and having it be Unarmed's personal rush proc just makes sense, all things considered.
I had considered suggesting the same thing, but didn't think of moving Dragon Kick into the MA tree group and found it awkward having two rush buffs in Unarmed even if some people cherry pick it anyway.
If your going to keep responding to my feedback then maybe you should just make a new thread and i would be happy to meet you there...
Just ignore the backseat moderators. This is a power changes thread, power change discussions belong here. You can't expect people to make suggestions and for those who disagree not to raise their objections to them. It's just unrealistic.
Just convert shurikens, both of them, to a TRUE non melee power. Support MA builds which may not necessarily be melee focused and avoid making brawler even more overpowered. The whole point of the role is to reward melee-only people and giving exceptions to that is making the role too strong.
I think something that would be pretty awesome to see is a way where you can use Unarmed attacks to set up future attacks to be much more effective. It could be a self-buff that applies any time an attack is used one stack is gained. And after so many stacks (maybe 5) the next non-eb MA attack used will consume them all and have some major added effect. For example, rising knee could consume it for damage buff and knockback effect, or BCF could gain a stun. This would go a long way to adding a great deal of utility to Unarmed while giving the feeling of always setting up the opponent for the next big attack, no matter what form it comes in.
Now for the actual implementation of this it could be either an inherent part of each power of an advantage that can be taken. Also I would not be opposed to certain attacks being set-up only and others being exclusively finishers in a similar to the Assassin in Diablo II(but only if it must be done to balance the game).
As for the shuriken discussion, lowering the range to 25 ft could justify it having the melee boost while maintaining the fact that it is a thrown and there for has more range that a punch.
I think something that would be pretty awesome to see is a way where you can use Unarmed attacks to set up future attacks to be much more effective. It could be a self-buff that applies any time an attack is used one stack is gained. And after so many stacks (maybe 5) the next non-eb MA attack used will consume them all and have some major added effect. For example, rising knee could consume it for damage buff and knockback effect, or BCF could gain a stun. This would go a long way to adding a great deal of utility to Unarmed while giving the feeling of always setting up the opponent for the next big attack, no matter what form it comes in.
Now for the actual implementation of this it could be either an inherent part of each power of an advantage that can be taken. Also I would not be opposed to certain attacks being set-up only and others being exclusively finishers in a similar to the Assassin in Diablo II(but only if it must be done to balance the game).
Problem there is that you're basically locked into a pure Unarmed build. I don't think anything that limits viable builds that include Unarmed is a good idea.
As for the shuriken discussion, lowering the range to 25 ft could justify it having the melee boost while maintaining the fact that it is a thrown and there for has more range that a punch.
Or just make it a normal power. Where's the telepath attack that gets avenger numbers in sentinel? There shouldn't be any because it makes the point of the role pointless and limits the reason to be MA tank or sentinel.
Problem there is that you're basically locked into a pure Unarmed build. I don't think anything that limits viable builds that include Unarmed is a good idea.
IMO the game can be a lot better balanced if it was simply framework unbiased, without any forced combinations.
Enrage and focus, and to a lesser degree the other framework in-set buffs, only reward extreme twinking and make concept builds harder. Any attempt to artificially reward framework loyalty will ultimately do the same because it increases the power system complexity.
I'd expect a more concept friendly system if the powers simply acted how you expect instead of, say, applying a framework or melee specific buff or increasing with a specific stat. The usual reply is that the players would take the top powers. I say it may be easier to keep the powers similar if the framework combination system was not such a massive maze. If any power was of equal calculated rank and not adjusted to work with a role or tier or framework.
Please fix the fire fx on BCF so it color able. Been bugging me for months. Also I agree with a post in the unarmed framework PTS thread. I do think that Burning chi fist should debuff healing. However I think the Advantage should do both dot and half healing. The refresh on the advantage on tap may not work with this advantage or make it too good of a power however. So if the advantage took away that component, refresh the DOT on the enemy, then worked like it did before, it would be a better fit.
Also Hundred hands need a disorient at the end of a full charge. Right now there is no incentive to actually keep it maintained other than damage and cool factor. The hit animation from the enemies seems to pause them but not stop them from knocking you back or some other attack. There needs to be a control utility on that power.
Every other AOE in Unarmed has a control secondary, save for the recent additons. With out that there is no way to mitigate incoming damage when attacking or being focused on attacking.
I won't comment on numbers and that kind of thing because there are folks FAR more qualified to do so than I am. I mainly choose powers for concept and visuals. Also, I realise the OP says that these are not final, but...
I am extremely underwhelmed.
Vicious Strikes - This one is fine. Actually I like it quite a lot. Seems a little slow though.
Backhand chop - Again, this is cool. No problem.
Elbow Slam - Huh? This seems like an odd choice for a martial arts attack. Seems more like a wrestling move to me. Also, one that would be used on an opponent who is laying on the floor. The animation looks rigid and doesn't 'flow' with the rest of the set.
Leaping Uppercut - Kinda like this one, but it also lacks flow. Other people have said it needs a spin and I agree totally.
Open Palm Strike - This is okay, but repeats itself after a charge which is odd.
Rising Knee - This one looks so uncomfortable and cumbersome. I was expecting something like Sagat's Tiger Knee. It needs more of a Muay Thai Kickboxing feel, rather than a... well, a kick to the nuts.
One Hundred Hands - Really don't like the ghost hands, so would hope for a R3 version without them or a ZPA to add them (I know I know). Severely lacking in oomph. Needs either
a) Pull the arms back further for a series of more powerful strikes (like Vicious Strikes but faster) or
b) give it a finisher on a full maintain. Preferably a Bruce Lee back fist with accompanying :O face. You know the one
Shuriken Storm - Hmm... Again, not what I was expecting. I don't picture Ninjas throwing while clumsily spinning on the spot like that... I was hoping for either something akin to Lead Tempest - A series of extravagant moves throwing knives all over the place (up and down and diagonally too, not just sideways), or something similar to Torrent of Arrows but with the Hero posed similarly to Celestial Conduit - a wide fan attack as they jump backwards.
I'm testing this on my end; it sure seems colorable to me. Is anyone else experiencing this?
I haven't paid enough attention to it, but I remember the Fists of Righteous Flame buff being uncolorable. Not sure if that's related - I'll have to do some more testing with it later tonight and see if the default flame DoT is doing the same. I don't recall it, but I also wasn't really looking for it.
IMO the game can be a lot better balanced if it was simply framework unbiased, without any forced combinations.
Enrage and focus, and to a lesser degree the other framework in-set buffs, only reward extreme twinking and make concept builds harder. Any attempt to artificially reward framework loyalty will ultimately do the same because it increases the power system complexity.
I'd expect a more concept friendly system if the powers simply acted how you expect instead of, say, applying a framework or melee specific buff or increasing with a specific stat. The usual reply is that the players would take the top powers. I say it may be easier to keep the powers similar if the framework combination system was not such a massive maze. If any power was of equal calculated rank and not adjusted to work with a role or tier or framework.
I gotta agree with this, not just from a balance stand point but also from the perspective of customizability as well. I'd rather see as few forced combinations as possible. I'd even love for offensive passives and Seraphim to be non-damage specific so I'm not forced to take a particular set or type of power just to make them work. I also think that rewarding "framework loyalty" also goes against CO's "Be the hero you want to be" selling point as well as the whole customizability aspect (which is in fact the game's principal and most shining feature, which sets it appart from other MMO's). You might as well make the game a class system.
What if I want to do some type of holy monk that uses a combination of unarmed MA attacks and heals? Seraphim would be an ideal passive thematically, except that it pigeonholes me into taking ego damage attacks to be effective.
I'm testing this on my end; it sure seems colorable to me. Is anyone else experiencing this?
I think hes talking about the advantage [fist of righteous flames] which is always yellow fire.
Burning Chi Fist [fist of righteous flames]
While on the subject of [fist of righteous flames], this advantage is very underwhelming. The small chance to proc a small amount of damage is not worth even considering loosing my rank 3 damage.
This advantage is worth 1 point if its worth any thing at all.
I like the idea of rolling [fist of righteous flames] into the basic power and coming up with some better advantages for BCF.
I'm not saying that hay-maker should loose nullifying punch but that advantage would make way more thematic sense on BCF.
Whatever you do, i would love to see BCF become a power that is competitive in pvp.
Has any one done any testing on BCFs resist penetration in pvp?
Overall I think the powers are awesome. I think the whole set need a bit more "comboability" to flow together correctly. Not only in the advantages, but in the animations as well. Also needs and energy mechanic that works better than focus and rush. Here's what i think so far of the powers.
Vicious Strikes - Needs to be faster, also i noticed that the energy return is a lot lower that righteous fist.
Elbow Slam - Needs to be a two hand smash-down or ax kick.
Leaping Uppercut - The concept is cool however it is kinda kluncky. I we cant get the dragon punch can we at least get the Scott Pilgrim?
Open Palm Strike - Cool power however i needs a nice juicy advantage to make it valuable. Could also use a little damage buff. Also for some reason it didn't always proc KB resistance
Rising Knee- Pretty cool, i like the fast knock down
Shuriken Storm - Needs a smother animation and a nice advantage
This may be entirely too much to ask for, and it may not be possible with the current engine.
Could there be a way to where, when you take one "power", you get several different attacks with it? So something like...you take Crashing Wave Kick, you get Thundering Kicks for free in the bargain. Or take Defensive Combo, get Beatdown. Mostly an issue for the melee sets with a lot of visually-interesting but mechanically-underwhelming attacks.
The MA pass has made me realize even more how much I want this functionality.
Taking too many redundant-effect attacks is the biggest weakness you can impose on a build, due to the opportunity cost of not taking buffs/heals/a passive with those slots instead. Not to mention not having advantage points for multiple big attacks.
But this also greatly contributes to how one-dimensional or boring to watch most builds can be.
Do you have any plans to look at ways to encourage variety in attacks without nerfing effectiveness or making certain powers "have" to be used with others?
Maybe something like...give us dedicated "passive", "block replacer" and "energy unlock" power slots (if you propagate those choices to every set), then use the power slots those choices previously took for an extra T0, T1 and T2 attack.
I can't even begin to think how to balance this, with the present system, anyway. I don't think it would be possible with the current system, as most "good" attacks also have good secondary effects. Not to mention that it's really only even an issue with the melee sets (ok, and the Gadgeteering control options that almost no one takes).
It's just a thought that comes to me occasionally when I think of making a Batman-style Gadgeteer/Martial artist (like a combo "utility belt" power with longer-cooldown, weaker versions of Entangling Mesh/Shuriken/Frag Grenade, say no knock on shuriken or something), or an unarmed Streets-of-Rage-style brawler that mixes Might and Unarmed MA in his own personal fighting style (just taking Crashing Wave Kick, Defensive Combo and Rising Knee, you're already three powers down without any sort of good single-target attack).
It's a choice between either variety in attacks or ability to survive/compete, and the base practicalities usually win out over the desire for novelty.
So I was mucking around some more with Unarmed today, and one thing hit me:
If I want to use Burning Chi Fist... I have to light people on fire... even though it's a fairly decent looking attack and one of the biggest punches the set has. But I don't really want to light people on fire with my fists...
Then the solution hit me like a ton of bricks - what if there were an additional two-point advantage on BCF that removed the DOT effect, and replaced it with a hefty knockback (with a relatively low arc) and bonus damage? The bonus damage and knockback would only apply when the power is fully charged, and the bonus damage would be based on whatever is considered a fair percentage of the DOTs overall damage, but done all at once.
Say the DOT is worth 1000 damage* if it ticks the whole duration - then someone with this advantage would do 250 bonus damage on a full charge, but there'd be no DOT. It's a tradeoff of DPS for burst basically. (Obviously someone better at maths could determine a fairer percentage, I'm just putting out a vague idea.)
Just one of those things to allow that power to be used by more normal martial artists < . .>
So I was mucking around some more with Unarmed today, and one thing hit me:
If I want to use Burning Chi Fist... I have to light people on fire... even though it's a fairly decent looking attack and one of the biggest punches the set has. But I don't really want to light people on fire with my fists...
Then the solution hit me like a ton of bricks - what if there were an additional two-point advantage on BCF that removed the DOT effect, and replaced it with a hefty knockback (with a relatively low arc) and bonus damage? The bonus damage and knockback would only apply when the power is fully charged, and the bonus damage would be based on whatever is considered a fair percentage of the DOTs overall damage, but done all at once.
Say the DOT is worth 1000 damage* if it ticks the whole duration - then someone with this advantage would do 250 bonus damage on a full charge, but there'd be no DOT. It's a tradeoff of DPS for burst basically. (Obviously someone better at maths could determine a fairer percentage, I'm just putting out a vague idea.)
Just one of those things to allow that power to be used by more normal martial artists < . .>
*This is an imaginary number.
Tap spamming BCF can be very good damage without ever setting the target on fire.
Yeah, I just don't like the look of it when tapped - a lot of the fun for me is in the wind-up-and-charge bit. I just don't feel like lighting people on fire by punching them >.<
----
Also, tangentally related:
For the "someday" wishlist - I'd really like a good hard side-kick as an option, like Crane Kick from COH < . .> Punches needed more attention of course, so not complaining or saying 'now!!!' - but down the line it'd be fun to have.
On the unarmed pass specifically: Really hoping for Leaping Uppercut to get the rush buff. On further thought, I could see it working out to where Dragon's Wrath is best against tanks, Dragon's Claws is best against squishies, and Leaping Uppercut is somewhere in-between.
Maybe something like...give us dedicated "passive", "block replacer" and "energy unlock" power slots (if you propagate those choices to every set), then use the power slots those choices previously took for an extra T0, T1 and T2 attack.
This. This so hard. Maybe even a dedicated T0 slot just so nobody has to feel like they're gimping themselves by taking them more often than not. Even if you were to take all active powers and no passives/blocks/energy unlocks, you would have JUST enough powers to fill your hotkeys. Kinda makes it pointless to take anything off, really, when you're limited to just that amount anyway.
This may be entirely too much to ask for, and it may not be possible with the current engine.
Could there be a way to where, when you take one "power", you get several different attacks with it? So something like...you take Crashing Wave Kick, you get Thundering Kicks for free in the bargain. Or take Defensive Combo, get Beatdown. Mostly an issue for the melee sets with a lot of visually-interesting but mechanically-underwhelming attacks.
The MA pass has made me realize even more how much I want this functionality.
Taking too many redundant-effect attacks is the biggest weakness you can impose on a build, due to the opportunity cost of not taking buffs/heals/a passive with those slots instead. Not to mention not having advantage points for multiple big attacks.
But this also greatly contributes to how one-dimensional or boring to watch most builds can be.
Do you have any plans to look at ways to encourage variety in attacks without nerfing effectiveness or making certain powers "have" to be used with others?
Maybe something like...give us dedicated "passive", "block replacer" and "energy unlock" power slots (if you propagate those choices to every set), then use the power slots those choices previously took for an extra T0, T1 and T2 attack.
I can't even begin to think how to balance this, with the present system, anyway. I don't think it would be possible with the current system, as most "good" attacks also have good secondary effects. Not to mention that it's really only even an issue with the melee sets (ok, and the Gadgeteering control options that almost no one takes).
It's just a thought that comes to me occasionally when I think of making a Batman-style Gadgeteer/Martial artist (like a combo "utility belt" power with longer-cooldown, weaker versions of Entangling Mesh/Shuriken/Frag Grenade, say no knock on shuriken or something), or an unarmed Streets-of-Rage-style brawler that mixes Might and Unarmed MA in his own personal fighting style (just taking Crashing Wave Kick, Defensive Combo and Rising Knee, you're already three powers down without any sort of good single-target attack).
It's a choice between either variety in attacks or ability to survive/compete, and the base practicalities usually win out over the desire for novelty.
I wholeheartedly agree that this is a problem--it is incredibly difficult to make a character with a cool style and variety in this game who doesn't suck. That's why I prefer combo powers--at least if you have to spam one power all the time with them, the animation cycles. I think every power should have that feature, but it's probably too late for that much animation work now.
The problem with your suggestion for me though, is that no matter how much variety we can get, even if they give us extra slots for all kinds of lower tier powers (which tend to all be the ones that you need to fill out any kind of combat style, since everything at higher tiers is just big powerful attacks to be spammed over and over), there's still no reason to -use- those powers. The same issue that makes them not worth taking in place of better attacks makes them not worth using in place of better attacks. Unless there's some kind of great secondary effect or synergy on them, it's pointless. I mean, sure, I could use thundering kicks exclusively, but why would I? The exception being tanking, because a lot of these moves are good challenging strikes holder, but that doesn't really help with variety or style.
The problem is, there's not really a good solution with the way the game works right now. If you add some kind of synergy in set where comboing moves together gives a bonus, people will be upset because it's less attractive to take those powers with other builds, and freeform is a big thing in Champions. So we're stuck with the option to take a ton of powers that we have no use for or take only the ones we need and lose a lot of flow and style. It's really starting to hurt my enjoyment, but I don't know how it gets fixed.
Remove Rush from every dragon and any attacks being planned in the future except for Dragon's bite.
So now, each dragon has its own role.
DW : Defense Pen
DC : Squishy Bane Crit
DK : err Stun + Dodge + crit + Cone AoE
DB : Energy + Bleed Replenishing.
You have to choose
Use one of those Imba power as the line and buff everything to that level and change this game name to "Cheesy Online"
or
bring those stupid imba mechinic/system/power down to the normal level and fix stuffs from there.
Don't set the line on something that is too strong and is over-performing. Bring the freaking down line back to the normal level.
Remove Rush from every dragon and any attacks being planned in the future except for Dragon's bite.
So now, each dragon has its own role.
DW : Defense Pen
DC : Squishy Bane Crit
DK : err Stun + Dodge + crit + Cone AoE
DB : Energy + Bleed Replenishing.
You have to choose
Use one of those Imba power as the line and buff everything to that level and change this game name to "Cheesy Online"
or
bring those stupid imba mechinic/system/power down to the normal level and fix stuffs from there.
Don't set the line on something that is too strong and is over-performing. Bring the freaking down line back to the normal level.
Give the Martial Arts sets an energy unlock and you can remove Rush from the Dragon's Powers. Building energy on Focus Stack procs isn't sufficient for most of the attacks.
Give the Martial Arts sets an energy unlock and you can remove Rush from the Dragon's Powers. Building energy on Focus Stack procs isn't sufficient for most of the attacks.
Go MSA.
Rush atm, is just too good as a free T2 energy unlocker on an overpowered power. If it is to stay, either it becomes like other Energy Unlocker than only pops every 3-4 seconds at a much lower rate (3-4 energy pop per stack of Focus at soft cap and no cost reduction) or make it DB only so people will care about DB and give DB a reason to exist other than to exist and be laughed at.
MA, 2 powers, you get a Form and a powerful T2 + Energy Unlocker at the same time.
Other set, 3 powers: Get the form, an attack, and an Energy Unlocker.
Why don't the dev add an HoT effect to the Rush as well to complete it. Nothing can be fixed properly anyway until they finally replace the bar. I hope the Hero game queue event and PVE queue event actually teach them something about and balance in PVP when they're getting one shotted or being unable to kill the super tank or how some powers are just overperforming in PVE when every mob is being one to two shotted while not dealing any damage. However, I highly doubt it.
In the fantastically undesired opinion of a non-PvPer (for this exact reason:
Such is the nature of Champions.
The game's open power system induces extreme polarization of builds, which is, always has been, and always will be absolutely terrible for balance. You cannot balance a game around bleeding-edge extremes, not and actually satisfy the players. Either you are the most insane damage-spiking demon-god ever created, able to break 25k damage in three seconds or less, or you are the most invulnerable, inviolable, untouchable mass of steel-plated HP north, south, east, AAAAAAAAAAND west of the Pecos, designed to take 25k damage in three seconds.
Heh...or, of course, you're in between the two bleeding-edge extremes, and thus have no place in PvP. Trust me, I've been to Stronghold, I've been to B.A.S.H., I've done all the "Hey, noob! Stop wasting my server space with PvE crap and go play the real game!" things. There's no such thing as toolbox builds, or trick builds, or attrition builds. There's WTFBBQ spike, and OMFG tank. Everything else is pointless.
Until that gets addressed, which would require the gutting/removal of the open power system in Champions Online and thus destroy the entire point of the game, then no amount of individual powers balancing is going to matter a good goddamn in the end. The game will still be polarized to such an extent as to make it absolutely unplayable to all but the absolute hardest of the hardcore, simply because I can make a power armored, Force-shielded martial artist with demonic magic at his fingertips.
This is the price you pay for no real build limitations, man. No need to kill Martial Arts to try and solve an unsolvable problem.
There's WTFBBQ spike, and OMFG tank. Everything else is pointless.
Until that gets addressed, which would require the gutting/removal of the open power system in Champions Online and thus destroy the entire point of the game, then no amount of individual powers balancing is going to matter a good goddamn in the end.
Doesn't require gutting open powers. It requires nerfing stacking.
Remove Rush from every dragon and any attacks being planned in the future except for Dragon's bite.
So now, each dragon has its own role.
DW : Defense Pen
DC : Squishy Bane Crit
DK : err Stun + Dodge + crit + Cone AoE
DB : Energy + Bleed Replenishing.
I loled.
People cherry picking DW for PVP don't care about Rush. All this would accomplish is nerfing builds you would never have trouble with in PvP to begin with, while keeping the builds you are mad about completely intact. Oh, and this also somehow assumes DB would be balanced if it was the only one with Rush. To make DB on par it would require nerfing buff stacking (so that attrition can come into play) AND a complete DoT review so that they aren't mitigated and absorbed into non-factors.
The game's open power system induces extreme polarization of builds, which is, always has been, and always will be absolutely terrible for balance. You cannot balance a game around bleeding-edge extremes, not and actually satisfy the players. Either you are the most insane damage-spiking demon-god ever created, able to break 25k damage in three seconds or less, or you are the most invulnerable, inviolable, untouchable mass of steel-plated HP north, south, east, AAAAAAAAAAND west of the Pecos, designed to take 25k damage in three seconds.
But ATM, you can do both because the stacking mechanic combined with Cryptic Math is just.......
This is the price you pay for no real build limitations, man. No need to kill Martial Arts to try and solve an unsolvable problem.
I'm not just going to aim at MA. I'm not going to be bias toward a certain set so I will just shoot every power set in this game.
I loled.
People cherry picking DW for PVP don't care about Rush. All this would accomplish is nerfing builds you would never have trouble with in PvP to begin with, while keeping the builds you are mad about completely intact. Oh, and this also somehow assumes DB would be balanced if it was the only one with Rush. To make DB on par it would require nerfing buff stacking (so that attrition can come into play) AND a complete DoT review so that they aren't mitigated and absorbed into non-factors.
It's a start to make DB worthwhile. The whole mechanic of this game need to be reworked anyway.
Rush is like a free energy builder for people simply because they picked a dragon power.
And hey, if they don't really care about Rush, might as well have it gone then. If they don't care then they shouldn't complain, right?
Or yeah, make rush into an Energy Unlocker like Dr.Sage want make it give 4-5 energy per stack of focus, trigger once every 4 secs and trigger on a crit from MA attacks.
Focus and Enrage also need a damage reduction too anyway (I got +160% base or +66% total damage simply from having 8 focus on which is wrong for a toggle buff to be stronger than an Offensive Passive.)
This is not just PVP. I hate the fact that I can spent only 2 minutes in the PTS to create a build that is insanely 10x more effective at both PVE and PVP simply by picking AoPM + Focus + DW/DC or Invul+Focus+DW/DC with Emphatic crit to keep my focus at 8.
Minor bug found sorta?
Pestilence isn't coloring properly.... except it is? It tints.... but the power must have been swimming in a pool of ink because it's as close to black as you can get and still be tintable slightly. And the fx itself looks different but can't place it.
Okay. I love that we got a new shuriken power, but I do not like this one.
The animation is okay, but the circular motions have NEVER looked good. There isn't enough effort put into the footwork to make it convincing. (The Amazing Top Man!)
Then, there's the 360 nature of the attack. In my mind, this should have been a cone. I mean, aren't most MA attacks either single-target or cone attacks? I'm not against adding something different, but I don't think MA's strengths lie in big AoE attacks.
I was hoping unarmed came with many more movement powers.\
I love the way breakaway shot and bullet ballet perform long complex animations/moves. I was hoping the unarmed pass would come with more/better combos like this instead of more single hit powers. My acrobatic heroes will never come to fruition.
I was hoping unarmed came with many more movement powers.\
I love the way breakaway shot and bullet ballet perform long complex animations/moves. I was hoping the unarmed pass would come with more/better combos like this instead of more single hit powers. My acrobatic heroes will never come to fruition.
+1, first time i saw changelogs i actually expected Leaping Uppercut to be a 50 ft range that did a knock-up, but's it's just a boring 10 ft range attack atm :S Force geyser is still the only good knock-up power.
Comments
REMINDER (not directed at any one person in particular)
Also, I need to see your hall pass.
Seriously?
RoBoBo, please clarify - am I really not to discuss the powers with others in this thread? Because in that case I think it should just be PMs instead of in a forum, which by definition is literally "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.".
Shuriken Throw
If you are a Melee fighter and using Brawler role this is just not a very useful power because of its low single target damage. Considering the high damage that melee fighters have access to and the ability to move quickly with a lunge, shuriken is never the best option to do single target damage.
Shuriken throw is a relic from the pre-melee pass CO and it is time for a change.
Shuriken Storm
I will admit that MA fighters don't have a access to trash mob killers with this kind of range. I still think shurikens should be utility powers but i can at least see how the argument can be made for the usefulness of Shuriken Storm for AOE dmg. (even though Hundred hands is excellent AOE)
Compromise?
I'm guessing he just means this particular thread is for direct feedback and any discussions can be done in a thread in the same forum.
Maybe rename it Dragon's Fist, Dragon's Wing or Dragon's Rising
Reason being since Dragon Kick being a Cartwheel, it'd have the most general use among all the sets as an alternative to their specific Rush power. Maybe rename it Dragon's Tail (just continuing the random naming brainfart)
While Leaping Uppercut also could use something special mechanically to make it more of an enticing pick up for Unarmed specific characters.
EDIT: Also just noticed TacoBomber suggested this earlier in the thread; my bad
I'm not sure I agree at all. My character does 661 damage with a R3 Shuriken in Brawler mode, with a .5sec activation and a miniscule 10 energy cost. If i were using rage instead of a MA form it would be a beast, even without that bonus it's still respectable damage and there are certain cases where it is superior to closing to melee range.
The Overhead elbow strike audio should def be changed. The slicing audio doesn't fit the attack IMO. More of a crushing audio would be better I feel.
Risking the breaking that specific rule for a moment to explain its probable context. I don't think he means not to disagree with anyone's view point. Just don't directly reflect it in your feedback.
So for example: If you disagree with someone's viewpoint, don't directly say, it sucks. That's not productive. In your own separate feedback, say you like what has been done (if the feedback you disagree with is against the changes) or focus your feedback on how you dislike said change (should the feeback you disagree with likes said change). Feedback on the implemented change itself is what's really important here.
To provide feedback on something hasn't been implemented yet has the potential to clutter the thread with /signed posts & potential flame wars which drown out the very serious issues currently in the build by noise.
If there is something needing to really be "hashed" out, it actually could be done more effectively in the PTS - Unarmed thread under frameworks rather than the patch release notes thread.
Doesn't look very vicious. It looks more like a white belt practising strikes in the dojo. It's simply too slow.
One Hundred Hands
This one I like very much. No complaints here.
Backhand Chop
If the interrupt is the main selling point of this power, why is it a charge attack? That seems rather counterproductive.
Elbow Slam
There's no real sense of impact. Maybe if the downward motion was faster?
Leaping Uppercut
I think I need to do a bit more testing before I can comment on this one.
Open Palm Strike
Give me a skyscraper with some badguys on the roof
Rising Knee
Disappointing. I hope it's a placeholder animation. Someone mentioned Sagat earlier. I too would prefer something more Muay Thai-esque.
Shuriken Storm
I can't really think of anything to say about this one. I won't be using it because it doesn't fit my concept but that bit of information is hardly of any use to you
I used to think that the Martial Arts frameworks were starving for powers since you always had to dip into other frameworks just to use all your power points. Now it feels more like Unarmed has too many choices because I find myself wondering which powers to skip rather than what piddly crap to pick from other frameworks :rolleyes:
If your going to keep responding to my feedback then maybe you should just make a new thread and i would be happy to meet you there...
I would rather Uppercut just disoriented or something, maybe give it an advantage "Winded!" where it takes away half of the targets max energy or something. Either way, I'd like to something new, more appropriate accross the board for the UA Dragon power for Rush.
The knee and elbow both need a little more oomph, and the elbow should be pretty hardcore - increased severity like DC? Vertebreak advantage? Bleed DoT?
Lead Tempest also procs (i.e. can miss). 75% change to proc at short range and 50% change to proc at long range. I want to say 5ft and 10 ft, I know my memory is acting up on me.
Lead Tempest also procs (i.e. can miss). 75% change to proc at short range and 50% change to proc at long range.
- In a brawler Role, a Shuriken Throw is as strong as a tapped AR or a max damage AR tick with lower energy cost and much faster animation time. Also, with its range at 100 ft, you pretty much have a spammable high damage 100 ft attack that is as strong as range type even though you are playing a MELEE role.
- THere are many things you can do with a 100 ft and a knock down. If someone jumped toward you, throw a few shuriken. Watch as they fall down (and maybe get some fall damage) and receive around 5 extra shuriken during their trip down to the ground for more damage before you lunge in and deal the finisher. Shuriken easily fill the role of the appetizer that "might even" kill squishies. Think of it as a Force Geyser that deals great damage instead of Knocking and CC instead of NTTG. Try the same with someone running away and you can just run in pop a lunge while they're getting up.
- Shuriken laughs at Archery and Munition. The MELEE range attack is better than the RANGE range attack.
-You get to use Brawler instead of Avenger! That's already a pretty big advantage since Avenger has a pretty bad bonus and bad reduction unlike Brawler.
Range reduction and change it to an utility attack instead of a damager. Again, why the heck does a melee range power go as far as a range range power in the first place?
I had considered suggesting the same thing, but didn't think of moving Dragon Kick into the MA tree group and found it awkward having two rush buffs in Unarmed even if some people cherry pick it anyway.
Just ignore the backseat moderators. This is a power changes thread, power change discussions belong here. You can't expect people to make suggestions and for those who disagree not to raise their objections to them. It's just unrealistic.
Now for the actual implementation of this it could be either an inherent part of each power of an advantage that can be taken. Also I would not be opposed to certain attacks being set-up only and others being exclusively finishers in a similar to the Assassin in Diablo II(but only if it must be done to balance the game).
As for the shuriken discussion, lowering the range to 25 ft could justify it having the melee boost while maintaining the fact that it is a thrown and there for has more range that a punch.
Problem there is that you're basically locked into a pure Unarmed build. I don't think anything that limits viable builds that include Unarmed is a good idea.
Or just make it a normal power. Where's the telepath attack that gets avenger numbers in sentinel? There shouldn't be any because it makes the point of the role pointless and limits the reason to be MA tank or sentinel.
IMO the game can be a lot better balanced if it was simply framework unbiased, without any forced combinations.
Enrage and focus, and to a lesser degree the other framework in-set buffs, only reward extreme twinking and make concept builds harder. Any attempt to artificially reward framework loyalty will ultimately do the same because it increases the power system complexity.
I'd expect a more concept friendly system if the powers simply acted how you expect instead of, say, applying a framework or melee specific buff or increasing with a specific stat. The usual reply is that the players would take the top powers. I say it may be easier to keep the powers similar if the framework combination system was not such a massive maze. If any power was of equal calculated rank and not adjusted to work with a role or tier or framework.
Please fix the fire fx on BCF so it color able. Been bugging me for months. Also I agree with a post in the unarmed framework PTS thread. I do think that Burning chi fist should debuff healing. However I think the Advantage should do both dot and half healing. The refresh on the advantage on tap may not work with this advantage or make it too good of a power however. So if the advantage took away that component, refresh the DOT on the enemy, then worked like it did before, it would be a better fit.
Also Hundred hands need a disorient at the end of a full charge. Right now there is no incentive to actually keep it maintained other than damage and cool factor. The hit animation from the enemies seems to pause them but not stop them from knocking you back or some other attack. There needs to be a control utility on that power.
Every other AOE in Unarmed has a control secondary, save for the recent additons. With out that there is no way to mitigate incoming damage when attacking or being focused on attacking.
I'm testing this on my end; it sure seems colorable to me. Is anyone else experiencing this?
I am extremely underwhelmed.
a) Pull the arms back further for a series of more powerful strikes (like Vicious Strikes but faster) or
b) give it a finisher on a full maintain. Preferably a Bruce Lee back fist with accompanying :O face. You know the one
I haven't paid enough attention to it, but I remember the Fists of Righteous Flame buff being uncolorable. Not sure if that's related - I'll have to do some more testing with it later tonight and see if the default flame DoT is doing the same. I don't recall it, but I also wasn't really looking for it.
I gotta agree with this, not just from a balance stand point but also from the perspective of customizability as well. I'd rather see as few forced combinations as possible. I'd even love for offensive passives and Seraphim to be non-damage specific so I'm not forced to take a particular set or type of power just to make them work. I also think that rewarding "framework loyalty" also goes against CO's "Be the hero you want to be" selling point as well as the whole customizability aspect (which is in fact the game's principal and most shining feature, which sets it appart from other MMO's). You might as well make the game a class system.
What if I want to do some type of holy monk that uses a combination of unarmed MA attacks and heals? Seraphim would be an ideal passive thematically, except that it pigeonholes me into taking ego damage attacks to be effective.
I think hes talking about the advantage [fist of righteous flames] which is always yellow fire.
Burning Chi Fist [fist of righteous flames]
While on the subject of [fist of righteous flames], this advantage is very underwhelming. The small chance to proc a small amount of damage is not worth even considering loosing my rank 3 damage.
This advantage is worth 1 point if its worth any thing at all.
I like the idea of rolling [fist of righteous flames] into the basic power and coming up with some better advantages for BCF.
I'm not saying that hay-maker should loose nullifying punch but that advantage would make way more thematic sense on BCF.
Whatever you do, i would love to see BCF become a power that is competitive in pvp.
Has any one done any testing on BCFs resist penetration in pvp?
I am talking about the advantage. the fire that stays on your hands is uncolorable
Vicious Strikes - Needs to be faster, also i noticed that the energy return is a lot lower that righteous fist.
Elbow Slam - Needs to be a two hand smash-down or ax kick.
Leaping Uppercut - The concept is cool however it is kinda kluncky. I we cant get the dragon punch can we at least get the Scott Pilgrim?
Open Palm Strike - Cool power however i needs a nice juicy advantage to make it valuable. Could also use a little damage buff. Also for some reason it didn't always proc KB resistance
Rising Knee- Pretty cool, i like the fast knock down
Shuriken Storm - Needs a smother animation and a nice advantage
Could there be a way to where, when you take one "power", you get several different attacks with it? So something like...you take Crashing Wave Kick, you get Thundering Kicks for free in the bargain. Or take Defensive Combo, get Beatdown. Mostly an issue for the melee sets with a lot of visually-interesting but mechanically-underwhelming attacks.
The MA pass has made me realize even more how much I want this functionality.
Taking too many redundant-effect attacks is the biggest weakness you can impose on a build, due to the opportunity cost of not taking buffs/heals/a passive with those slots instead. Not to mention not having advantage points for multiple big attacks.
But this also greatly contributes to how one-dimensional or boring to watch most builds can be.
Do you have any plans to look at ways to encourage variety in attacks without nerfing effectiveness or making certain powers "have" to be used with others?
Maybe something like...give us dedicated "passive", "block replacer" and "energy unlock" power slots (if you propagate those choices to every set), then use the power slots those choices previously took for an extra T0, T1 and T2 attack.
I can't even begin to think how to balance this, with the present system, anyway. I don't think it would be possible with the current system, as most "good" attacks also have good secondary effects. Not to mention that it's really only even an issue with the melee sets (ok, and the Gadgeteering control options that almost no one takes).
It's just a thought that comes to me occasionally when I think of making a Batman-style Gadgeteer/Martial artist (like a combo "utility belt" power with longer-cooldown, weaker versions of Entangling Mesh/Shuriken/Frag Grenade, say no knock on shuriken or something), or an unarmed Streets-of-Rage-style brawler that mixes Might and Unarmed MA in his own personal fighting style (just taking Crashing Wave Kick, Defensive Combo and Rising Knee, you're already three powers down without any sort of good single-target attack).
It's a choice between either variety in attacks or ability to survive/compete, and the base practicalities usually win out over the desire for novelty.
If I want to use Burning Chi Fist... I have to light people on fire... even though it's a fairly decent looking attack and one of the biggest punches the set has. But I don't really want to light people on fire with my fists...
Then the solution hit me like a ton of bricks - what if there were an additional two-point advantage on BCF that removed the DOT effect, and replaced it with a hefty knockback (with a relatively low arc) and bonus damage? The bonus damage and knockback would only apply when the power is fully charged, and the bonus damage would be based on whatever is considered a fair percentage of the DOTs overall damage, but done all at once.
Say the DOT is worth 1000 damage* if it ticks the whole duration - then someone with this advantage would do 250 bonus damage on a full charge, but there'd be no DOT. It's a tradeoff of DPS for burst basically. (Obviously someone better at maths could determine a fairer percentage, I'm just putting out a vague idea.)
Just one of those things to allow that power to be used by more normal martial artists < . .>
*This is an imaginary number.
Tap spamming BCF can be very good damage without ever setting the target on fire.
----
Also, tangentally related:
For the "someday" wishlist - I'd really like a good hard side-kick as an option, like Crane Kick from COH < . .> Punches needed more attention of course, so not complaining or saying 'now!!!' - but down the line it'd be fun to have.
And Dragon's Bite is um. Yeah.
This. This so hard. Maybe even a dedicated T0 slot just so nobody has to feel like they're gimping themselves by taking them more often than not. Even if you were to take all active powers and no passives/blocks/energy unlocks, you would have JUST enough powers to fill your hotkeys. Kinda makes it pointless to take anything off, really, when you're limited to just that amount anyway.
I wholeheartedly agree that this is a problem--it is incredibly difficult to make a character with a cool style and variety in this game who doesn't suck. That's why I prefer combo powers--at least if you have to spam one power all the time with them, the animation cycles. I think every power should have that feature, but it's probably too late for that much animation work now.
The problem with your suggestion for me though, is that no matter how much variety we can get, even if they give us extra slots for all kinds of lower tier powers (which tend to all be the ones that you need to fill out any kind of combat style, since everything at higher tiers is just big powerful attacks to be spammed over and over), there's still no reason to -use- those powers. The same issue that makes them not worth taking in place of better attacks makes them not worth using in place of better attacks. Unless there's some kind of great secondary effect or synergy on them, it's pointless. I mean, sure, I could use thundering kicks exclusively, but why would I? The exception being tanking, because a lot of these moves are good challenging strikes holder, but that doesn't really help with variety or style.
The problem is, there's not really a good solution with the way the game works right now. If you add some kind of synergy in set where comboing moves together gives a bonus, people will be upset because it's less attractive to take those powers with other builds, and freeform is a big thing in Champions. So we're stuck with the option to take a ton of powers that we have no use for or take only the ones we need and lose a lot of flow and style. It's really starting to hurt my enjoyment, but I don't know how it gets fixed.
Remove Rush from every dragon and any attacks being planned in the future except for Dragon's bite.
So now, each dragon has its own role.
DW : Defense Pen
DC : Squishy Bane Crit
DK : err Stun + Dodge + crit + Cone AoE
DB : Energy + Bleed Replenishing.
You have to choose
Use one of those Imba power as the line and buff everything to that level and change this game name to "Cheesy Online"
or
bring those stupid imba mechinic/system/power down to the normal level and fix stuffs from there.
Don't set the line on something that is too strong and is over-performing. Bring the freaking down line back to the normal level.
Give the Martial Arts sets an energy unlock and you can remove Rush from the Dragon's Powers. Building energy on Focus Stack procs isn't sufficient for most of the attacks.
Go MSA.
Rush atm, is just too good as a free T2 energy unlocker on an overpowered power. If it is to stay, either it becomes like other Energy Unlocker than only pops every 3-4 seconds at a much lower rate (3-4 energy pop per stack of Focus at soft cap and no cost reduction) or make it DB only so people will care about DB and give DB a reason to exist other than to exist and be laughed at.
MA, 2 powers, you get a Form and a powerful T2 + Energy Unlocker at the same time.
Other set, 3 powers: Get the form, an attack, and an Energy Unlocker.
Why don't the dev add an HoT effect to the Rush as well to complete it. Nothing can be fixed properly anyway until they finally replace the bar. I hope the Hero game queue event and PVE queue event actually teach them something about and balance in PVP when they're getting one shotted or being unable to kill the super tank or how some powers are just overperforming in PVE when every mob is being one to two shotted while not dealing any damage. However, I highly doubt it.
In the fantastically undesired opinion of a non-PvPer (for this exact reason:
Such is the nature of Champions.
The game's open power system induces extreme polarization of builds, which is, always has been, and always will be absolutely terrible for balance. You cannot balance a game around bleeding-edge extremes, not and actually satisfy the players. Either you are the most insane damage-spiking demon-god ever created, able to break 25k damage in three seconds or less, or you are the most invulnerable, inviolable, untouchable mass of steel-plated HP north, south, east, AAAAAAAAAAND west of the Pecos, designed to take 25k damage in three seconds.
Heh...or, of course, you're in between the two bleeding-edge extremes, and thus have no place in PvP. Trust me, I've been to Stronghold, I've been to B.A.S.H., I've done all the "Hey, noob! Stop wasting my server space with PvE crap and go play the real game!" things. There's no such thing as toolbox builds, or trick builds, or attrition builds. There's WTFBBQ spike, and OMFG tank. Everything else is pointless.
Until that gets addressed, which would require the gutting/removal of the open power system in Champions Online and thus destroy the entire point of the game, then no amount of individual powers balancing is going to matter a good goddamn in the end. The game will still be polarized to such an extent as to make it absolutely unplayable to all but the absolute hardest of the hardcore, simply because I can make a power armored, Force-shielded martial artist with demonic magic at his fingertips.
This is the price you pay for no real build limitations, man. No need to kill Martial Arts to try and solve an unsolvable problem.
exactly. /10chars
I loled.
People cherry picking DW for PVP don't care about Rush. All this would accomplish is nerfing builds you would never have trouble with in PvP to begin with, while keeping the builds you are mad about completely intact. Oh, and this also somehow assumes DB would be balanced if it was the only one with Rush. To make DB on par it would require nerfing buff stacking (so that attrition can come into play) AND a complete DoT review so that they aren't mitigated and absorbed into non-factors.
But ATM, you can do both because the stacking mechanic combined with Cryptic Math is just.......
I'm not just going to aim at MA. I'm not going to be bias toward a certain set so I will just shoot every power set in this game.
It's a start to make DB worthwhile. The whole mechanic of this game need to be reworked anyway.
Rush is like a free energy builder for people simply because they picked a dragon power.
And hey, if they don't really care about Rush, might as well have it gone then. If they don't care then they shouldn't complain, right?
Or yeah, make rush into an Energy Unlocker like Dr.Sage want make it give 4-5 energy per stack of focus, trigger once every 4 secs and trigger on a crit from MA attacks.
Focus and Enrage also need a damage reduction too anyway (I got +160% base or +66% total damage simply from having 8 focus on which is wrong for a toggle buff to be stronger than an Offensive Passive.)
This is not just PVP. I hate the fact that I can spent only 2 minutes in the PTS to create a build that is insanely 10x more effective at both PVE and PVP simply by picking AoPM + Focus + DW/DC or Invul+Focus+DW/DC with Emphatic crit to keep my focus at 8.
Pestilence isn't coloring properly.... except it is? It tints.... but the power must have been swimming in a pool of ink because it's as close to black as you can get and still be tintable slightly. And the fx itself looks different but can't place it.
The animation is okay, but the circular motions have NEVER looked good. There isn't enough effort put into the footwork to make it convincing. (The Amazing Top Man!)
Then, there's the 360 nature of the attack. In my mind, this should have been a cone. I mean, aren't most MA attacks either single-target or cone attacks? I'm not against adding something different, but I don't think MA's strengths lie in big AoE attacks.
I love the way breakaway shot and bullet ballet perform long complex animations/moves. I was hoping the unarmed pass would come with more/better combos like this instead of more single hit powers. My acrobatic heroes will never come to fruition.
+1, first time i saw changelogs i actually expected Leaping Uppercut to be a 50 ft range that did a knock-up, but's it's just a boring 10 ft range attack atm :S Force geyser is still the only good knock-up power.