OH, one more thing... Would it be possible to get Jumping Uppercut a spinning animation like an actual Shoryuken? This current one just feels so empty without it. :<
There is some really good feedback. Thanks a ton.
Remember to comment on the Unarmed changes and additions and not other player feedback in this thread.
Vicious Strikes - I'm in love. < . .> Seriously, this is a great energy builder - it has more versimilitude than the spas-out version that is Righteous Fists. J'adore.
Hundred Fists - The basic animation for this is AWESOME <@_@> It reminds me of old Bruce Lee movies. I'm less fond of the ghost hands on the higher ranks though <;_;> Maybe that'll change when all the FX are in place, but they just look... wrong to me. When I read upthread about them, I figured the animation was more like hundred-hand-slap from Street Fighter... the animation is astoundingly good, but I don't like the ghost hands.
Shuriken Storm - Mixed feelings... On the one hand... I love the basic idea of "Shuriken everywhere, ahahaha!" I'm less enamored of the spin in place animation though. I think I'd have personally preferred a shuriken version of Lead Tempest OR of Sword Cyclone (throwing that many shuriken is hardly realistic so my suspenders of disbelief can take crazier animations more easily than with stuff people can do in RL... like punching people.)
That said what could also work imo would be giving it an advantage like Butchers Blades for Sword Cyclone - I don't like the basic power, but with that advantage I like it. Something about only revolving once and making a big deal out of it, instead of just spinning like a nut that makes it better imo.
That said I certainly don't hate this animation < . .> and maybe there's more to come with it that'll change my mind.
Open Palm Strike: Love this animation. <@_@> I really hope the fireball advantage can be as much Kamehameha as Hadoken though - not that the latter isn't awesome, but I just like that whole "still linked to your hands when it hits" thing the Kamehameha tends to have going for it. Still, the animation is fantastic. I admit, I hope we get a regular ranged power using the same animation down the line... so pretty. < . .>
Elbow Strike - I love the idea here, but it feels a twinge... weak. I'm not sure how to explain it precisely, it just doesn't feel 'heavy' enough.
Backhand Chop - Excellent. It's simple, straightforward, and works perfectly in terms of visuals <^_^>
Rising Knee - Same problem as Elbow Strike - just not enough *oomph* somehow. Still a great idea and I'll use it.
Leaping Uppercut - Works pretty well as it is visually, but I admit I'd hoped for the whole "shoryuken" spin thing < . .> maybe that'd be legally problematic but... I really like the idea.
All told, really happy with these powers visually, if you guys ever get around to reviewing Single Blade and could take a similar approach to fleshing it out so that one can play a samurai OR knight type character... that'd be fantastic. (You get double points if you include a couple fencing powers to go with that rapier...)
Anyways, much kudos.
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I'd also like to note that personally, I don't care about stats beyond "Is functional" - unless these powers prove useless in actual combat, I think I'm very happy < . .> likewise I don't care if they replicate the functionality of existing powers in some way - for me the visuals are what make the game.
Rock reports scissors is fine, but paper needs a nerf.
Seriously? You think Invulnerable + IDF need a complete free pass?
You don't fix broken mechanics with broken mechanics. Stacking needs to be reigned in, which applies to both defense and damage.
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Regarding the animations: I do very much hope these are not finalized, as many are quite embarrassing. Shuriken Storm in particular. Might I suggest a more dynamic animation involving backflips instead of pretending to do the Croker Tornado?
Burning Chi Fist has an awkward lag after using it, Elbow drop lacks weight, I don't even know what's going on with one thousand palms, and the uppercut could really use a spin to it
Open Palm is quite neat, though! It's tap KD isn't applying knock resistance.
Thunderbolt Lunge: The Root and Snare applied by this power were not properly being affected by Rank. This has been corrected, which means that the Snare and Root now last less time at Rank 1, and more time at Rank 3.
I knew it!
I knew the Root on Lunge powers was just damned too powerful(= longer duration = more Z taps) to be normal.
I guess I'll just throw my 2 cents into the Shuriken Storm pile as well. I always thought it would deal fan damage by having your character jump back and wildly throw shuriken ahead of them while kind of 'hovering' in the air.
It's not a clip from the actual series, but I think it conveys the look I was going for. (I also wouldn't mind having an animation similar to this given to pistols... Hint...)
I guess I'll just throw my 2 cents into the Shuriken Storm pile as well. I always thought it would deal fan damage by having your character jump back and wildly throw shuriken ahead of them while kind of 'hovering' in the air.
It's not a clip from the actual series, but I think it conveys the look I was going for. (I also wouldn't mind having an animation similar to this given to pistols... Hint...)
I Was thinking more Ibuki's Air shuriken ultra from Street fighter, since a lot of the moves i used before it (Hi, leaping upper) Had the same vibe
And like I said before, this is something a lot more fitting for a 'Breakaway Shot' style move that hits in a cone instead of a full circle.
...A maintained cone reverse lunge which throws you back farther and deals more damage the longer you hold it. I don't know about anyone else, but the idea of that just sounds amazing to me.
I'll add to the "spinning around while throwing shurikens doesn't look right" sentiment. I kind of imagined a rapid motion of your character whipping out shurikens in the normal manner, just much much faster.
I do like the 'hadoken' animation, and the hundred-hand attack is pretty cool. I like that you guys added a knee and elbow attack as well. I was hoping for another utility power as well; perhaps another heal, or a power that kind of buffed your speed and damage for a short while - like an active offense or defense.
Vicious Strikes: Looks more like boxing, even with the elbow.
One Hundred Hands: I like it. Low enough energy cost for a MA character to use. My problem is that the hands don't use your bracers if you have them, but that might be a technical limitation.
Backhand Chop: A bit too much spin and a bit too slow, but other than that its ok.
Elbow Slam: I don't like this one, the animation lacks umph, it seems to be a slightly redundant single target charge attack, and I wonder if this didn't take the place of a Chi-Kick or something. However the effect opens up some synergies and strategies, which is nice.
Leaping Uppercut: I get the feeling this was a copy of Uppercut, but with the numbers tweaked and without the knock-immune damage bonus. But I do so love juggling enemies. Need to see the Advantage to figure out more.
Open Palm Strike: This is a bad copy of Haymaker where some of the better stuff got lost. It also suffers from the questionably redundant single target charge attack syndrome. (Just pointing out the animation) could be adapted to an AoE. Why synergy with Brick Uppercut? And why two Enrage stacks? that will consume your focus! In fact, why doesn't it grant focus? I dig cross-set synergy an all, but it is backwards in regards to inter-set synergies. Maybe the Advantage grants access to dimensional damage?
Rising Knee: I could see this as a stun or disorient instead of a knockdown. There is a better attack that shared MA has for knockup.
Shuriken Storm: I like the numbers of this power. But I would like the animation more if you started out by grabbing two fistfuls of shurikens, threw them all about in one motion, then alternately grabbed right and left hands full of shurikens as you maintained the attack while doing all that crazy dance-fight stuff.
Now just some wild thoughts:
What if the "knock-immune damage bonus" thing from Might translated into some kind of "knock-immune defense bonus" for Unarmed? Keeping it more inline with Unarmed's defensive procs.
What if one of the slightly redundant single target charge attacks did something like bypass absorption effects like IDF or something? Running wild with that thought; Would it be a good idea to change Elbow Slam into "Dragon's Fist" (or the like) and have it proc Rush and do something like the bypass absorption for those who don't want Dragon's Kick?
Most, if not all, what I think, has already been said, but one thing:
About One Hundred Hands -
Yes, yes, I know that you don't like them, and I also know why, but could you think about adding a ZPA for disabling the Ghostly Hands effect?
The problem is, this effect is making the power very... specific, and it may not fit a lot of the players themes. Most of the other Unarmed attacks are just "normal" kicks and punches, and because this power is going to be a big WANT (because it's awesome), so a lot of players will take it, and a lot of them probably don't want Ghost Hands (and no, leaving it at R1 is no real solution.)...
Pardon the first 18 seconds of load screens, but this is a pretty good quality video, and showns a variety of AoE thrown-sharp-bit moves. The one at 2:30 is particularly cool (similar to Ibuki, with a jump up and cone down).
Most, if not all, what I think, has already been said, but one thing:
About One Hundred Hands -
Yes, yes, I know that you don't like them, and I also know why, but could you think about adding a ZPA for disabling the Ghostly Hands effect?
The problem is, this effect is making the power very... specific, and it may not fit a lot of the players themes. Most of the other Unarmed attacks are just "normal" kicks and punches, and because this power is going to be a big WANT (because it's awesome), so a lot of players will take it, and a lot of them probably don't want Ghost Hands (and no, leaving it at R1 is no real solution.)...
I would say add a 1 point advantage that makes the hands appear and adds a very small amount of dimensional damage. That would go with the way those other hands look like some sort of magic or what-not.
The animations and such I am liking, though a few need a bit more work. Over all, the new abilities give a very street fighter (and not just in the game sense) that I know many people will want for their ideal brawler characters.
Pardon the first 18 seconds of load screens, but this is a pretty good quality video, and showns a variety of AoE thrown-sharp-bit moves. The one at 2:30 is particularly cool (similar to Ibuki, with a jump up and cone down).
This is what I've been looking for in an AoE shuriken attack. A single throwing motion that sends a half-dozen shuriken flying in a forward cone. The Archery set has a power that would be perfect, if not for the fact that its animation involves a bow shooting arrows instead of a hand throwing shuriken.
That said, I like some of the gameplay elements of Shuriken Storm, too; can we have both?
Backhand strike looks cool, but is pretty darn useless for the CD it has. Whereas on the other hand a power like brute strike that iterrupts, stuns for 3 seconds, and 1/2's healing has no cooldown. Weird.
Not saying that backhand needs to get rid of the CD but it needs a little someting more for all those drawbacks. Brute strike however definately needs a CD! ><
Backhand strike looks cool, but is pretty darn useless for the CD it has. Whereas on the other hand a power like brute strike that iterrupts, stuns for 3 seconds, and 1/2's healing has no cooldown. Weird.
Not saying that backhand needs to get rid of the CD but it needs a little someting more for all those drawbacks. Brute strike however definately needs a CD! ><
I'd say wait. None of the new powers have any advantages tied to them yet.
This is what I've been looking for in an AoE shuriken attack. A single throwing motion that sends a half-dozen shuriken flying in a forward cone. The Archery set has a power that would be perfect, if not for the fact that its animation involves a bow shooting arrows instead of a hand throwing shuriken.
That said, I like some of the gameplay elements of Shuriken Storm, too; can we have both?
I like shuriken throw as an alternative to Lead Tempest .. but i really would have liked to see also a new
full circle melee attack, since i'm absolutely no fan of melee cones
i still dont understand the point of another aoe with the new maintined cone attack it should really get a damage boost and be single target, its great as is but single target would be much better. when i think aoes in an unarmed fighter im not thinking about a flurry of punches im thinking multiple kicks and im very that were not seeing this, especially since we have an animation perfect for it already in game with the emote dance flair, that would have been perfect for it.
And like I said before, this is something a lot more fitting for a 'Breakaway Shot' style move that hits in a cone instead of a full circle.
...A maintained cone reverse lunge which throws you back farther and deals more damage the longer you hold it. I don't know about anyone else, but the idea of that just sounds amazing to me.
Eeeyup, that's exactly what I was imagining! Good find.
EDIT:
However, on second thought this would entitle an entirely new animation and function, it wouldn't exactly be Shuriken Storm. Would it be possible for Cryptic to create a new power in this fashion so both concepts can stay alive? Or is this an either-or kind of deal?
Zell, Unarmed has nothing for AoE attacks beyond Dragon Kick and the new One Hundred Hands. The lack of a good hench-buster AoE power has been the biggest problem with Unarmed for ages. Don't hate, man. Don't hate, and don't take away my Fist of the Hench-Slapper
Acting on the somewhat odd assumption I'm seeing in here that animations can actually change at this point...going to reinforce a lot of what's been said about Leaping Uppercut, Elbow Drop and Rising Knee. I'm not a big Street Fighter guy, so I don't need Shoryuken per se, but Leaping Uppercut seems to just sorta dry up and vanish after the strike. Some manner of recoil animation, whether a spin or not, would help it feel as powerful as it is, methinks. Elbow Drop and Rising Knee...yeah. At the very least try and adjust things so they have a sharper strike - the current animations don't have a lot of speed to them, don't really look like attacks so much as single-step katas.
Would also like a bit more in the way of Muay Thai flavor in them if they're not going to be crazy aerial moves that actually involve leaving the ground. Still vaguely disappointed that Elbow Drop doesn't involve the character ending up horizontal with his elbow a foot down the enemy's throat. ZERE IS NO ATOMIC IN JOOR ELBOW, CREEPTEEC!!
Okay I am gonna give you feedback on the ma attacks I did test.
Vicious Strikes
Visually I like the new energy builder better than "spastic fists" It has a nice krag maga or Keysi Fighting Method feel.
As an advantage I would louse the focus and hone in on the interrupts and/or stuns potential. An elbow to the face will stun most and not only would the attack more than a visual choice, it would make the new attack functionally different.
Also I can confirm the bug that does not allow you to access rank 3. However you can get the 3 point advantage and the point read out will say 6/5.
Backhand Chop
Don't know what it is supposed to do but it looks more like a back hand than a chop. I don't like the cool down as it does not seem to need one in it current form. If there is more to the power that will be added I could understand.
Elbow Slam:[/B]
Like the Omg bak feel to it. and it does seem like the attack is a finisher of some sort. Looks best when the opponent is already knocked down. Maybe an advantage to do more damage to people in that state?
One Hundred Hands
More than likely someone designed this entire power going "ATATATTATATATATATATATA" and giggling madly. I like the power. For me it feels like wing chun. I like the shadow hands. the damage output. I wish it would stun my enemies or something afterwards as crowd control, like force cascade does with its one point advantage to knock down all enemies affected by the attack on the last hit. A disorient or stun advantage would be great. A "You're already dead advantage" that did a unmitigated critial hit with the next attack (like an imbue but from an attack) would be nice. Maybe overkill but nice. At least have the name as an advantage.
Rising Knee
This one seems like the animation is a place holder. I am hoping it is because it looks like a knee to the crotch from resistance, and does not seem like it gets the job done visually. :Bug With rank 1 energy flight activated, there is no attack animation. May need to check this with other flight powers.
Burning Chi fist:
Seems to work the same for me. I didn't feel any different. Saw some good synergy with the fists of righteous flame advantage and the one hundred hands attack.
Rising Uppercut
the animation needs more Ken than ryu. You know a burning chi fist advantage would be nice.
Open Palm Strike]
Like the animation. Wish it had an advantage that allow me to extend the range of the attack or something.
Overall I enjoy the new moves but they need something that binds them all together with the other attacks in the framework. Until they have all of the new attacks have all of their advantages hooked up I will reserved further judgment.
However, on second thought this would entitle an entirely new animation and function, it wouldn't exactly be Shuriken Storm. Would it be possible for Cryptic to create a new power in this fashion so both concepts can stay alive? Or is this an either-or kind of deal?
May I point out Foxbat's fanboys, and the conic AoE that they wield by means of throwing weapons? What we're asking for is already in the game, animation-wise; it just isn't available to players.
Some have said that these powers don't flow together like the other MA powers but i think i disagree. These powers seem good for cherry picking. Excluding Open Palm Strike and Hundred hands, these are powers that are fairly straight forward for the non street fighter/jet li style fighter and i saw many street vigilante/bat manish style martial artist that looked good doing these kinds of moves.
The hundred Hands ghost hands issue:
I can see how some non MA themed speedster style players would be turned off by the ghost hands and be encouraged not to rank it up to rank 3 but i would hate to see the ghost hands go.
I think this is an elegant solution that should please every one:
I would say add a 1 point advantage that makes the hands appear and adds a very small amount of dimensional damage. That would go with the way those other hands look like some sort of magic or what-not.
If done this way, ranking up the power would increase the wind graphic around the hands, and the advantage would give you the ghost hands and the added dimintional dmg. Giving 100 Hands and Open Palm strike access to dimintional dmg would make BCF look like less of an odd ball and give more opportunity for synergy(especially synergy outside of the MA frame work). I think its important that we make these powers acceptable to every one (not just martial artist) when appropriate.
Shuriken Storm:
I can live with this power but it definitely isn't as cool/ stylized as the other new powers. I wouldn't expect any new animations on such short notice but if at all possible, i would like to see the Ibuki style shurikin attack mentioned by others. Maybe the first half of the back flip animation from acrobatics can be a good starting point.
Leaping Uppercut:
I would realy like to see some more fallow through/ rotation on this power.
Backhand Chop:
I really like the way this cancels charged attacks. Is there any way we can make it a tad faster? The faster it activates (especially that cancellation effect) the more useful it will be.
Open Palm Strike
Considering that this power (at least visually) is a chi attack and not necessarily a brute force melee strike: what if the knock scaled with EGO instead of STR?
MA characters tend to have way more EGO than STR and this power looks like it would be a fun melee option for force users as well. This may help differentiate Open Palm Strike from Hay-maker and make it a viable option for ranged melee hybrids.
Advantage suggestion for One Hundred Palms: Something that boosts its damage by 30% (or even more), but turns it into a single-target attack. The opposite (reduced damage + AOE) has already been done for Telekinetic Assault, so I figure this could work for whoever really REALLY wants to use One Hundred Hands as a single target attack.
May I point out Foxbat's fanboys, and the conic AoE that they wield by means of throwing weapons? What we're asking for is already in the game, animation-wise; it just isn't available to players.
a low-level T1 cone shuriken toss would be amazing (Thus making shuriken/the cone shuriken/Shuriken storm the unarmed equivalent of the might/infernal chains)
Open Palm Strike needs a lot more flourish than just pulling ones arms backward and trembling a lot. I recommend some circular arm movements. Just about any sentai and several martial arts movies could serve as an inspiration.
Backhand Chop animation is far too slow for its role of an interrupt. Please decrease the activation time and increase the animation speed. If that means you have to fiddle with this powers global cooldown, do so.
Leaping Uppercut has no follow through. Mights Uppercut is visually more interesting and far more impacting.
Rising Knee I have no words. I sincerely hope the animation is placeholder. Or is it meant to be just a knee?
Shuriken Storm the tap of this power animates awkwardly as does the whole spin. I think this power would be better served if you swiped Sword Cyclones animation and then polished the fluidity of the outro.. because the character really does not know what to do with their hands or feet. They just know where they should be placed at the end.
As for the rest of the set, the animations generally do not flow well at all, separate or together. For example, going from Vicious Strikes to Thundering Kicks has the character teleport backwards to execute the move as the leg thats behind you during the series of strikes now becomes the leg you kick from.. but there is no transition for that, no weight. You just magically wind up switching legs.
After playing around with them, my opinion regarding these new powers is that their animations, overall, require an increase in speed. Everything about their animations seems to lag behind every other power in the entire framework.
[
After playing around with them, my opinion regarding these new powers is that their animations, overall, require an increase in speed. Everything about their animations seems to lag behind every other power in the entire framework.[/QUOTE]
They have said that the animations and sound are not to their finnal form.
also, nearly all the animations feel... slow. maybe its just me.
Lets rename Shuriken Storm to Shuriken Spin, seeing as storm would imply a flurry of shurikens in all directions while this is more like a gentle breeze.
That or improve the animation to be somthing worth fearing.
I'll go into a bit more depth on some things I've noticed with these moves:
Open-Palm Strike - The move really needs to do more damage. Like, at least enough damage so that its dps rivals Burning Chi Fist when all stacks of knock resist are up. Balancing that with the ranged advantage would be easy, since you're foregoing Rank 3 if you take it.
One Hundred Fists - I actually had a really neat idea for an advantage for this... That is, if you devs haven't come up with one yet already. Rising Focus - If fully maintained, the next charged offensive move you use will have its charge time reduced to 1/4th its original length. The move will still incur full energy cost for the appropriate amount of charge used, and only works for the very next attack.
The advantage would make some nice combos possible, and make the sort of 'huge barrage followed by a mighty final strike' vision possible. I'm not actually seeing any closed fist models in the particle effect.
Leaping Uppercut - Looking at the animation, I think the jump on it needs to be a bit higher, as well as rise faster. A lot of people also suggested that there be a twirl after the uppercut. Given how the uppercut is delivered with the hand further away from the enemy, the twirl would make a lot of sense, as it implies a carry-through of momentum.
Vicious Strikes - After closer inspection, Vicious Strikes is vastly inferior to Righteous Fists numerically. Its animation doesn't seem particularly fast, it does roughly half the damage of it, and generates waaaaay less energy. Particle Rifle actually suffers from a similar problem.
Suggestion: Please make something a Dragon's <Attack> That is single target? Kick is nice if you want to go total unarmed but it's also really expensive for fully charging to get the Rush Benefit.
Also, Open Palm Strike's Damage does not match the tooltip. Except for the energy cost, the tooltip actually looks like it was borrowed from Haymaker. Comparing it to oher t3 attacks (and for the fun of it, Dragon's Claws) the damage is very underwhelming. An unraked dragon's Claws can do just as much damage on tap as a fully ranked Open Palm Strike. If you take the advantage you will get the same effect from both, more or less, for the tap.
Compared to Massacre, which is a tier 3, you also get a knockdown effect (that actually applies a resist) and does more damage. Again it's for a slightly higher cost on a tap, but similar for a full charge. In the end, I think Guaranteed damage is better for cost scaling than a knock. I'd suggest turning it into a repel, or making it just a straight knockdown instead of a knockback and increasing the damage to be appropriate for a tier 3 attack.
So I test some of the newcomers , and overall a bit more synergy between powers would be a nice addition.
Vicious strikes
Could use a bump on speed and perhaps 2-3 more moves.
Backhand chop
Should be quicker to use, but I like the animation
Elbow slam
This should be a clicky and not a charge power, with 100% disorient.
Rising knee
Animation wise I think it would feel better with a small jump. Also I would add extra damage if target is disoriented (synergy).
Leaping uppercut
Very nice, but the character should turn because let's face it we are so use to the twirling animation that it's look a bit weird without it.
I would also add extra damage against disoriented target (synergy).
Open Palm Strike
I'm in deep love of the animation, I was waiting for this sort of animation since day 1 (I so would like to use it for force cascade, gigabolt, chest beam).
As a Power it's nice, but I really don't like the KB it make it feel too much of a might power, I would prefer a strong repel and compensate fall damage with extra dimensional damage.
Also for synergy I would make this power consume the DOT of a full charged BCF for extra dimensional damage.
One Hundred Hands
I like it as it is, it's a perfect animation and everything.
Burning Chi Fist
I always loved this power, unfortunately the only thing that needed work is still untouched.
The advantage , need a serious buff. The thing I'd like to see is still a 0-50% chance but with twice the length for the buff plus a small increase in the damage.
Another solution would be 100% chance and a small increase in buff duration.
Also if the buff advantage is present on me I would make Open palm strike consume it for extra damage (or knockback if it were removed from base power).
Also, and it's my personal opinion on it, I would put disorient on rising knee, still make elbow slam a clicky with extra damage against disoriented target.
Why? Because I think it would look cooler this way around .
Okay, while I haven't tested the power itself much, I do hear alot of people complaining about BCF not being as good as it could be.
Why not make the fists of righteous flame advantage baseline? Make the particle effect it causes color tintable, maybe change the advantage to do something else?
I know we haven't seen the advantages yet, but I hope we get some kind of synergies implemented with these powers. I'd like to see advantages to using them in a combo, like following elbow drop with rising knee or such. Similar to the Uppercut/haymaker thing in might (though preferably more useful).
If I had my way, a lot of martial arts powers would lose their charges and be fast click moves bonuses (innate or from advantages) for chaining them together, with only a few big charges for "finishers" or whatever. There's already enough "spam a single powerful attack" sets in this game, I'd like to see one with some actual style. The martial arts sets seem like a good place for it.
Uppercut and Haymaker get a combo. Why not Leaping Uppercut with other moves?
Combo suggestion 1: If Leaping Uppercut is used immediately after a fully charged Burning Chi Fist, Leaping Uppercut's damage is increased (maybe to full charge damage even on a tap).
Reasoning: Gut punch to notShoryuken.
Combo suggestion 2: If Leaping Uppercut is used immediately after a fully charged Uppercut, Leaping Uppercut makes the user lunge along with the power's normal effects..
Reasoning: Knock them up once, knock them up again. Big drop.
Combo suggestion 3: Full charge Burning Chi Fist, full charge uppercut, then Leaping Uppercut. Leaping Uppercut gains full damage on tap and lunges the user towards the target.
Reasoning: Not Shin Shoryuken. Nope. It might work for strong spike damage against a single target, but then you're also taking three single target attacks, two of which would be redundant to use without some sort of combo/synergy between the two.
I can't comment on the new unarmed powers' effectiveness and all, but I find the animations very disappointing, they look like they were taken from an old City of Heroes build.
I really hope they're only placeholders.
Just tried out the new MA set and I really really hope this is a very rough concept of what it is going to be. Every move is slow and blandly animated especially the knee attack and suriken toss. This needs some love because this set is long over due and if the animation stays the same honestly next to any other previously done set this will be a pale representation of what the CO team is truly capable of.
Just spice it up as it stands no matter how good the set can be it is boring.
The street fighter homage is great just follow through with the animation... And why no exploding palm?????
Initial thoughts - Vicious Strikes could be sped up a little bit. It feels kind of slow/awkward at the moment, but I do really like the base animation. Just needs to be faster. One Hundred Palms is fine, but I think it could use a bit more extension on each punch and an 'end maintain' animation as well.
Everything else seems mostly okay. Open Palm Strike is AWESOME, Backhand Chop is solid, both Rising Knee and Leaping Uppercut are alright but maybe just a few animation tweaks would be fine. Elbow Slam is fairly averageish.
I like Vicious Strikes as is, I must say. Backhand Chop is great, but I wonder if it shouldn't do more than just interrupt; a 6 second cooldown is pretty weighty for such a minor secondary effect perhaps it should have a short stun as well. Flying uppercut is a nice alternative to BCF. I don't personally think I'll use either the knee or the elbow slam, and I wonder if they aren't a bit lackluster. One hundred palms and the shuriken circle are both excellent.
Comments
Remember to comment on the Unarmed changes and additions and not other player feedback in this thread.
Hope you are having a good weekend
Vicious Strikes can only be ranked up 1 time. It seems as though it came with Drunken Master built in, and it can't be respecced out.
Vicious Strikes - I'm in love. < . .> Seriously, this is a great energy builder - it has more versimilitude than the spas-out version that is Righteous Fists. J'adore.
Hundred Fists - The basic animation for this is AWESOME <@_@> It reminds me of old Bruce Lee movies. I'm less fond of the ghost hands on the higher ranks though <;_;> Maybe that'll change when all the FX are in place, but they just look... wrong to me. When I read upthread about them, I figured the animation was more like hundred-hand-slap from Street Fighter... the animation is astoundingly good, but I don't like the ghost hands.
Shuriken Storm - Mixed feelings... On the one hand... I love the basic idea of "Shuriken everywhere, ahahaha!" I'm less enamored of the spin in place animation though. I think I'd have personally preferred a shuriken version of Lead Tempest OR of Sword Cyclone (throwing that many shuriken is hardly realistic so my suspenders of disbelief can take crazier animations more easily than with stuff people can do in RL... like punching people.)
That said what could also work imo would be giving it an advantage like Butchers Blades for Sword Cyclone - I don't like the basic power, but with that advantage I like it. Something about only revolving once and making a big deal out of it, instead of just spinning like a nut that makes it better imo.
That said I certainly don't hate this animation < . .> and maybe there's more to come with it that'll change my mind.
Open Palm Strike: Love this animation. <@_@> I really hope the fireball advantage can be as much Kamehameha as Hadoken though - not that the latter isn't awesome, but I just like that whole "still linked to your hands when it hits" thing the Kamehameha tends to have going for it. Still, the animation is fantastic. I admit, I hope we get a regular ranged power using the same animation down the line... so pretty. < . .>
Elbow Strike - I love the idea here, but it feels a twinge... weak. I'm not sure how to explain it precisely, it just doesn't feel 'heavy' enough.
Backhand Chop - Excellent. It's simple, straightforward, and works perfectly in terms of visuals <^_^>
Rising Knee - Same problem as Elbow Strike - just not enough *oomph* somehow. Still a great idea and I'll use it.
Leaping Uppercut - Works pretty well as it is visually, but I admit I'd hoped for the whole "shoryuken" spin thing < . .> maybe that'd be legally problematic but... I really like the idea.
All told, really happy with these powers visually, if you guys ever get around to reviewing Single Blade and could take a similar approach to fleshing it out so that one can play a samurai OR knight type character... that'd be fantastic. (You get double points if you include a couple fencing powers to go with that rapier...)
Anyways, much kudos.
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I'd also like to note that personally, I don't care about stats beyond "Is functional" - unless these powers prove useless in actual combat, I think I'm very happy < . .> likewise I don't care if they replicate the functionality of existing powers in some way - for me the visuals are what make the game.
Respec'd Z into the new toys from unarmed (Usually con/str Besti)
Inex. Tides -> BCF Full charge -> Leaping upper (SHORYUKEN!) -> Open-palm strike (HADOUKEN!)
Sexy 16k-ish damage with almost no rage on the dummies, annhilates anything i KU With it with impunity
Cryptic, Don't stop amazing me.
You don't fix broken mechanics with broken mechanics. Stacking needs to be reigned in, which applies to both defense and damage.
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Regarding the animations: I do very much hope these are not finalized, as many are quite embarrassing. Shuriken Storm in particular. Might I suggest a more dynamic animation involving backflips instead of pretending to do the Croker Tornado?
Burning Chi Fist has an awkward lag after using it, Elbow drop lacks weight, I don't even know what's going on with one thousand palms, and the uppercut could really use a spin to it
Open Palm is quite neat, though! It's tap KD isn't applying knock resistance.
I knew it!
I knew the Root on Lunge powers was just damned too powerful(= longer duration = more Z taps) to be normal.
Hundred Hands. Really without proper audio the impact is greatly reduced.
At 3 AM, the best visual aid I can think of would be this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnXpmOZ_KBM
It's not a clip from the actual series, but I think it conveys the look I was going for. (I also wouldn't mind having an animation similar to this given to pistols... Hint...)
I Was thinking more Ibuki's Air shuriken ultra from Street fighter, since a lot of the moves i used before it (Hi, leaping upper) Had the same vibe
Isolating the second half of this is what I envisioned for a perfect shuriken AoE. (Like 6 seconds in or so)
And like I said before, this is something a lot more fitting for a 'Breakaway Shot' style move that hits in a cone instead of a full circle.
...A maintained cone reverse lunge which throws you back farther and deals more damage the longer you hold it. I don't know about anyone else, but the idea of that just sounds amazing to me.
I do like the 'hadoken' animation, and the hundred-hand attack is pretty cool. I like that you guys added a knee and elbow attack as well. I was hoping for another utility power as well; perhaps another heal, or a power that kind of buffed your speed and damage for a short while - like an active offense or defense.
Let me go down the line:
Now just some wild thoughts:
What if the "knock-immune damage bonus" thing from Might translated into some kind of "knock-immune defense bonus" for Unarmed? Keeping it more inline with Unarmed's defensive procs.
What if one of the slightly redundant single target charge attacks did something like bypass absorption effects like IDF or something? Running wild with that thought; Would it be a good idea to change Elbow Slam into "Dragon's Fist" (or the like) and have it proc Rush and do something like the bypass absorption for those who don't want Dragon's Kick?
About One Hundred Hands -
Yes, yes, I know that you don't like them, and I also know why, but could you think about adding a ZPA for disabling the Ghostly Hands effect?
The problem is, this effect is making the power very... specific, and it may not fit a lot of the players themes. Most of the other Unarmed attacks are just "normal" kicks and punches, and because this power is going to be a big WANT (because it's awesome), so a lot of players will take it, and a lot of them probably don't want Ghost Hands (and no, leaving it at R1 is no real solution.)...
Ibuki OMGthatsalottakunai video~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edBd1kaz0e4&feature=related
...I have to admit that I've grown quite fond of **** Yuanji's fast-flowing 45-dregree cone attacks thowing her blades 5 at a time.
**** Yuanji video~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFbqJF475Qs
Pardon the first 18 seconds of load screens, but this is a pretty good quality video, and showns a variety of AoE thrown-sharp-bit moves. The one at 2:30 is particularly cool (similar to Ibuki, with a jump up and cone down).
I would say add a 1 point advantage that makes the hands appear and adds a very small amount of dimensional damage. That would go with the way those other hands look like some sort of magic or what-not.
That said, I like some of the gameplay elements of Shuriken Storm, too; can we have both?
Not saying that backhand needs to get rid of the CD but it needs a little someting more for all those drawbacks. Brute strike however definately needs a CD! ><
I'd say wait. None of the new powers have any advantages tied to them yet.
I like this idea <._.>b
full circle melee attack, since i'm absolutely no fan of melee cones
Eeeyup, that's exactly what I was imagining! Good find.
EDIT:
However, on second thought this would entitle an entirely new animation and function, it wouldn't exactly be Shuriken Storm. Would it be possible for Cryptic to create a new power in this fashion so both concepts can stay alive? Or is this an either-or kind of deal?
Acting on the somewhat odd assumption I'm seeing in here that animations can actually change at this point...going to reinforce a lot of what's been said about Leaping Uppercut, Elbow Drop and Rising Knee. I'm not a big Street Fighter guy, so I don't need Shoryuken per se, but Leaping Uppercut seems to just sorta dry up and vanish after the strike. Some manner of recoil animation, whether a spin or not, would help it feel as powerful as it is, methinks. Elbow Drop and Rising Knee...yeah. At the very least try and adjust things so they have a sharper strike - the current animations don't have a lot of speed to them, don't really look like attacks so much as single-step katas.
Would also like a bit more in the way of Muay Thai flavor in them if they're not going to be crazy aerial moves that actually involve leaving the ground. Still vaguely disappointed that Elbow Drop doesn't involve the character ending up horizontal with his elbow a foot down the enemy's throat. ZERE IS NO ATOMIC IN JOOR ELBOW, CREEPTEEC!!
Vicious Strikes
Visually I like the new energy builder better than "spastic fists" It has a nice krag maga or Keysi Fighting Method feel.
As an advantage I would louse the focus and hone in on the interrupts and/or stuns potential. An elbow to the face will stun most and not only would the attack more than a visual choice, it would make the new attack functionally different.
Also I can confirm the bug that does not allow you to access rank 3. However you can get the 3 point advantage and the point read out will say 6/5.
Backhand Chop
Don't know what it is supposed to do but it looks more like a back hand than a chop. I don't like the cool down as it does not seem to need one in it current form. If there is more to the power that will be added I could understand.
Elbow Slam:[/B]
Like the Omg bak feel to it. and it does seem like the attack is a finisher of some sort. Looks best when the opponent is already knocked down. Maybe an advantage to do more damage to people in that state?
One Hundred Hands
More than likely someone designed this entire power going "ATATATTATATATATATATATA" and giggling madly. I like the power. For me it feels like wing chun. I like the shadow hands. the damage output. I wish it would stun my enemies or something afterwards as crowd control, like force cascade does with its one point advantage to knock down all enemies affected by the attack on the last hit. A disorient or stun advantage would be great. A "You're already dead advantage" that did a unmitigated critial hit with the next attack (like an imbue but from an attack) would be nice. Maybe overkill but nice. At least have the name as an advantage.
Rising Knee
This one seems like the animation is a place holder. I am hoping it is because it looks like a knee to the crotch from resistance, and does not seem like it gets the job done visually. :Bug With rank 1 energy flight activated, there is no attack animation. May need to check this with other flight powers.
Burning Chi fist:
Seems to work the same for me. I didn't feel any different. Saw some good synergy with the fists of righteous flame advantage and the one hundred hands attack.
Rising Uppercut
the animation needs more Ken than ryu. You know a burning chi fist advantage would be nice.
Open Palm Strike]
Like the animation. Wish it had an advantage that allow me to extend the range of the attack or something.
Overall I enjoy the new moves but they need something that binds them all together with the other attacks in the framework. Until they have all of the new attacks have all of their advantages hooked up I will reserved further judgment.
Now thats a power! i cant wait to test it!
My LEAD FOOT toon would die for this. It never felt right that his big hit was a (burning chi) fist.
Some have said that these powers don't flow together like the other MA powers but i think i disagree. These powers seem good for cherry picking. Excluding Open Palm Strike and Hundred hands, these are powers that are fairly straight forward for the non street fighter/jet li style fighter and i saw many street vigilante/bat manish style martial artist that looked good doing these kinds of moves.
The hundred Hands ghost hands issue:
I can see how some non MA themed speedster style players would be turned off by the ghost hands and be encouraged not to rank it up to rank 3 but i would hate to see the ghost hands go.
I think this is an elegant solution that should please every one: If done this way, ranking up the power would increase the wind graphic around the hands, and the advantage would give you the ghost hands and the added dimintional dmg. Giving 100 Hands and Open Palm strike access to dimintional dmg would make BCF look like less of an odd ball and give more opportunity for synergy(especially synergy outside of the MA frame work). I think its important that we make these powers acceptable to every one (not just martial artist) when appropriate.
Shuriken Storm:
I can live with this power but it definitely isn't as cool/ stylized as the other new powers. I wouldn't expect any new animations on such short notice but if at all possible, i would like to see the Ibuki style shurikin attack mentioned by others. Maybe the first half of the back flip animation from acrobatics can be a good starting point.
Leaping Uppercut:
I would realy like to see some more fallow through/ rotation on this power.
Backhand Chop:
I really like the way this cancels charged attacks. Is there any way we can make it a tad faster? The faster it activates (especially that cancellation effect) the more useful it will be.
Open Palm Strike
Considering that this power (at least visually) is a chi attack and not necessarily a brute force melee strike:
what if the knock scaled with EGO instead of STR?
MA characters tend to have way more EGO than STR and this power looks like it would be a fun melee option for force users as well. This may help differentiate Open Palm Strike from Hay-maker and make it a viable option for ranged melee hybrids.
Yes... yes you may mention it.
DO. WANT.
+1'ing this
a low-level T1 cone shuriken toss would be amazing (Thus making shuriken/the cone shuriken/Shuriken storm the unarmed equivalent of the might/infernal chains)
- Open Palm Strike needs a lot more flourish than just pulling ones arms backward and trembling a lot. I recommend some circular arm movements. Just about any sentai and several martial arts movies could serve as an inspiration.
- Backhand Chop animation is far too slow for its role of an interrupt. Please decrease the activation time and increase the animation speed. If that means you have to fiddle with this powers global cooldown, do so.
- Leaping Uppercut has no follow through. Mights Uppercut is visually more interesting and far more impacting.
- Rising Knee I have no words. I sincerely hope the animation is placeholder. Or is it meant to be just a knee?
- Shuriken Storm the tap of this power animates awkwardly as does the whole spin. I think this power would be better served if you swiped Sword Cyclones animation and then polished the fluidity of the outro.. because the character really does not know what to do with their hands or feet. They just know where they should be placed at the end.
As for the rest of the set, the animations generally do not flow well at all, separate or together. For example, going from Vicious Strikes to Thundering Kicks has the character teleport backwards to execute the move as the leg thats behind you during the series of strikes now becomes the leg you kick from.. but there is no transition for that, no weight. You just magically wind up switching legs.After playing around with them, my opinion regarding these new powers is that their animations, overall, require an increase in speed. Everything about their animations seems to lag behind every other power in the entire framework.
After playing around with them, my opinion regarding these new powers is that their animations, overall, require an increase in speed. Everything about their animations seems to lag behind every other power in the entire framework.[/QUOTE]
They have said that the animations and sound are not to their finnal form.
also, nearly all the animations feel... slow. maybe its just me.
Lets rename Shuriken Storm to Shuriken Spin, seeing as storm would imply a flurry of shurikens in all directions while this is more like a gentle breeze.
That or improve the animation to be somthing worth fearing.
Open-Palm Strike - The move really needs to do more damage. Like, at least enough damage so that its dps rivals Burning Chi Fist when all stacks of knock resist are up. Balancing that with the ranged advantage would be easy, since you're foregoing Rank 3 if you take it.
One Hundred Fists - I actually had a really neat idea for an advantage for this... That is, if you devs haven't come up with one yet already.
Rising Focus - If fully maintained, the next charged offensive move you use will have its charge time reduced to 1/4th its original length. The move will still incur full energy cost for the appropriate amount of charge used, and only works for the very next attack.
The advantage would make some nice combos possible, and make the sort of 'huge barrage followed by a mighty final strike' vision possible.
I'm not actually seeing any closed fist models in the particle effect.
Leaping Uppercut - Looking at the animation, I think the jump on it needs to be a bit higher, as well as rise faster. A lot of people also suggested that there be a twirl after the uppercut. Given how the uppercut is delivered with the hand further away from the enemy, the twirl would make a lot of sense, as it implies a carry-through of momentum.
Vicious Strikes - After closer inspection, Vicious Strikes is vastly inferior to Righteous Fists numerically. Its animation doesn't seem particularly fast, it does roughly half the damage of it, and generates waaaaay less energy. Particle Rifle actually suffers from a similar problem.
Also, Open Palm Strike's Damage does not match the tooltip. Except for the energy cost, the tooltip actually looks like it was borrowed from Haymaker. Comparing it to oher t3 attacks (and for the fun of it, Dragon's Claws) the damage is very underwhelming. An unraked dragon's Claws can do just as much damage on tap as a fully ranked Open Palm Strike. If you take the advantage you will get the same effect from both, more or less, for the tap.
Compared to Massacre, which is a tier 3, you also get a knockdown effect (that actually applies a resist) and does more damage. Again it's for a slightly higher cost on a tap, but similar for a full charge. In the end, I think Guaranteed damage is better for cost scaling than a knock. I'd suggest turning it into a repel, or making it just a straight knockdown instead of a knockback and increasing the damage to be appropriate for a tier 3 attack.
Vicious strikes
Could use a bump on speed and perhaps 2-3 more moves.
Backhand chop
Should be quicker to use, but I like the animation
Elbow slam
This should be a clicky and not a charge power, with 100% disorient.
Rising knee
Animation wise I think it would feel better with a small jump. Also I would add extra damage if target is disoriented (synergy).
Leaping uppercut
Very nice, but the character should turn because let's face it we are so use to the twirling animation that it's look a bit weird without it.
I would also add extra damage against disoriented target (synergy).
Open Palm Strike
I'm in deep love of the animation, I was waiting for this sort of animation since day 1 (I so would like to use it for force cascade, gigabolt, chest beam).
As a Power it's nice, but I really don't like the KB it make it feel too much of a might power, I would prefer a strong repel and compensate fall damage with extra dimensional damage.
Also for synergy I would make this power consume the DOT of a full charged BCF for extra dimensional damage.
One Hundred Hands
I like it as it is, it's a perfect animation and everything.
Burning Chi Fist
I always loved this power, unfortunately the only thing that needed work is still untouched.
The advantage , need a serious buff. The thing I'd like to see is still a 0-50% chance but with twice the length for the buff plus a small increase in the damage.
Another solution would be 100% chance and a small increase in buff duration.
Also if the buff advantage is present on me I would make Open palm strike consume it for extra damage (or knockback if it were removed from base power).
Also, and it's my personal opinion on it, I would put disorient on rising knee, still make elbow slam a clicky with extra damage against disoriented target.
Why? Because I think it would look cooler this way around
Why not make the fists of righteous flame advantage baseline? Make the particle effect it causes color tintable, maybe change the advantage to do something else?
If I had my way, a lot of martial arts powers would lose their charges and be fast click moves bonuses (innate or from advantages) for chaining them together, with only a few big charges for "finishers" or whatever. There's already enough "spam a single powerful attack" sets in this game, I'd like to see one with some actual style. The martial arts sets seem like a good place for it.
Combo suggestion 1: If Leaping Uppercut is used immediately after a fully charged Burning Chi Fist, Leaping Uppercut's damage is increased (maybe to full charge damage even on a tap).
Reasoning: Gut punch to notShoryuken.
Combo suggestion 2: If Leaping Uppercut is used immediately after a fully charged Uppercut, Leaping Uppercut makes the user lunge along with the power's normal effects..
Reasoning: Knock them up once, knock them up again. Big drop.
Combo suggestion 3: Full charge Burning Chi Fist, full charge uppercut, then Leaping Uppercut. Leaping Uppercut gains full damage on tap and lunges the user towards the target.
Reasoning: Not Shin Shoryuken. Nope. It might work for strong spike damage against a single target, but then you're also taking three single target attacks, two of which would be redundant to use without some sort of combo/synergy between the two.
I really hope they're only placeholders.
Just spice it up as it stands no matter how good the set can be it is boring.
The street fighter homage is great just follow through with the animation... And why no exploding palm?????
I saw the note regarding the FX and the audio not being final.. but nothing regarding the animations.
If that's the case, then I am indeed looking forward to the next few patches.
The person who created the Heavy weapons set must not have had any involvement here.
Everything else seems mostly okay. Open Palm Strike is AWESOME, Backhand Chop is solid, both Rising Knee and Leaping Uppercut are alright but maybe just a few animation tweaks would be fine. Elbow Slam is fairly averageish.