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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    So? You CAN if you want to. We don't have enough a very long section of combat. The demo never had a reason to look up.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    I’ve seen a couple gameplay videos now and the angle never changes. I’d be willing to bet money that you can’t change the angle.

    Regardless, it’s a Diablo clone. Like I said the camera alone isn’t why it’s a Diablo clone so I don’t know why everyone is focusing on that.
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,408 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    I’ve seen a couple gameplay videos now and the angle never changes. I’d be willing to bet money that you can’t change the angle.

    Regardless, it’s a Diablo clone. Like I said the camera alone isn’t why it’s a Diablo clone so I don’t know why everyone is focusing on that.

    It's a pretty big deal on how the game's played:
    • Third/First person games usually use the mouse for controlling which direction you're looking and move with keyboard. For overhead action that's usually the keyboard controlling the camera angle (if it rotates) and then the mouse is mainly used to position your attacks and/or move. Also obviously little-to-no meaningful vertical movement.
    • As said before massive differences in how maps are designed gameplay-wise. Levels can be a lot bigger without people getting as lost.
    • Game challenge can be balanced around being surrounded because there's a consistent viewpoint that allows the player to see enemies at all angles around them.
    • Attacks also tend to have big hit areas. Generally the trend that was showing in stuff like current CO cosmics and NW translate flawlessly to this genre because so much attack stuff is projected onto the ground - and it's using a viewpoint that keeps that ground constantly in view.
    • Inversely it's not like most TPS/FPS games where there's emphasis on tight positioning or movement of your character, or directly aiming attacks. Thing is though Cryptic's actually never legitimately approached their games in this way because every title has been in-part based around an automatic targeting system that just locks on to things. Still, going to be likely that using some kind of block or evasive maneuver/dodge will be less expected in a title like this.
    • Development wise it's a big point because now there isn't a ceiling or skybox you need to fully model for your environments. Also generally lower level-of-detail on all kinds of models and objects but that aspect of the genre's been mitigated with more and more graphical developments.

    I haven't played that many Diablo-styled hack'n slashes aside from Dungeon Siege (the original and a very short bit of three) but overall I haven't been impressed by that type of genre, to the point where it's probably just not my type of thing since it emphasizes indirect control or hotkey combinations, and more number-crunching approaches to gameplay compared to basic controls contrasted with requiring tight timing like a Soulslike or good precision/aiming of an FPS.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    Why? I almost never change camera angle in games even if the game allows it.

    I'm gonna guess you weren't as specific with this statement as you should have been, because taken at face value this seems like it would make any game without a fixed camera very difficult.

    This is my point exactly. comparing it to Diablo makes sense, calling it a clone is more than a little unreasonable.

    Calling something a diablo clone is comparing it to diablo. So, you're both saying doing something makes sense, and saying that same thing is unreasonable.
    This just doesn't look like Diablo to me.

    So the camera, movement, and spell delivery don't look like Diablo at all to you?

    "Camera modes"? The gameplay demo video is using the same camera angle that is the default camera angle in CO. Also we've seen that the terrain in the game isn't flat. So you actually have a reason to be able to look up. Diablo games DON'T do that at all ever.

    That's an interesting theory, but if that's the case then the trailers did a horrible job showing that. This is kinda the point here: we can imagine all day and night what the game might have, but atm we only know what the trailers show us. It might have the most amazing platforming sections, a dating mini game where you woo Chandra, and a part where you summon a vehicle, select a crew of summons, and then pilot it around space shooting at eldrazi ...but the trailer didn't show that, so for purposes of this discussion none of that exists.

    Like, just show me some footage where the camera angle changes under the player's control and that'll settle it. Until then, all evidence points to fixed camera.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    Some gameplay. The camera gets rotated, but no vertical angle change at any point, and from the level design it looks like there's no reason to even have that as a feature. Welp... maybe they'll have really pretty floors?

    What's also disappointing here is that this is a "Mind Mage" being shown off, so a blue deck. Blue tends to be the most interesting, convoluted, and complicated color in Magic. I'm not getting any of that from the gameplay shown. It looks like a bunch of very generic magic attacks and summons. This looks like one of those cases where they already had a half-completed game, and then got an IP they could slap on top of it. I'm not saying that's the case here; I'm saying that's what the game looks like.


    Some more gameplay. This time the Geomancer which is a... melee class it looks like? Some kind of kung fu monk with fire.


    For comparison, here is a gameplay vid for Diablo 4.

    They could literally take the Druid from Diablo 4 and transplant him into Magic Legends and have him be the "Green Deck" character. Due to the gameplay, art, and interface similarities he would just fit right in, like a square peg into a square hole. Same with the Mind Mage and Geomancer, you could slide them right into Diablo 4 easy as pie. These are basically the same game ( but I'm gonna try Magic Legends instead of Diablo 4 cause it's free :3c ).
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    Well the array of options player have for playing blue in MTG has always been wider than what players actually USE :p You can make a blue deck that summons birds and sea monsters.... Most DON't though
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    Delicious delicious datas…..

    Soo... character classes are totally a thing, but they're NOT linked to color, instead they're linked to playstyle.
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  • cliffnotes?​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    At launch you will only be able to do one or two colors in your deck. (support for more than 2 might come later)
    You can use whatever colors you have cards for.
    Your character class determines that base stats for your character.
    This means it changes the stats for spells.
    We don't have specifics but he seemed to indicate it'd affect things like whether you do more damage with long ranged attacks or close range. We still don't know what 3 classes do.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    Can I make a life drain deck where I don't do much of anything but my opponents slowly die while making my health bar huge and I use a few regenerating skeletons and a cat to make it so they can't attack me at all?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,039 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    So, another random gameplay video. Shows a bit more stuff with summons (looks like they persist until killed, but there may be a limit to active effects; there's a bar on the right edge that looks to show cards in play). Also definitely looks like you can't look up, because it's something you'd want to do in that dragon fight if you were allowed to do it.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    In the one I posted the guy said that, yes, summons persist until killed. He also mentioned you can't have duplicate summons out. He didn't outright say it, but the way he talked made it seem like you only had one "card" for each summon in your deck, so maybe the reason decks are 12 cards is because all cards are restricted to 1? You have two "class" powers to use if you don't want to use a card ability.
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  • this is starting to sound like a worse version of wizard101...because at least that game lets you use duplicate cards​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    this is starting to sound like a worse version of wizard101...because at least that game lets you use duplicate cards​​
    I think the idea is that having multiples would be redundant. Most cards in the CCG are set at 4 per deck. Minimum deck size is 60, but somewhere around 1/3 of those are lands. So... 40-ish non lands, if they're all 4-ofs, then that's only 10 separate cards in the deck. Obviously most decks DON'T have 4 of everything, but it's common to have 4 of.. most things.

    I'm not sure exactly how the randomization here works, but it seems like once you use a card it goes back into the randomizer. It seems like there's no digital equivalent of a discard pile, but I'm not sure.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Diablo, except every class is a summoner.
    If you want to. MTG decks aren't required to have creatures, and this apparently isn't either. The starting decks will probably have creatures, then you'd have to customize it to remove them.
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  • the discard pile is probably 'this card goes on CD for x seconds/minutes after use'​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,447 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    I'm still waiting to see them show something interesting... like a card pops up and all it does is make it so when your other summons die it spawns some little spirit creatures, and another card pops up that makes all spirit creatures turn into big angels, and if you have both cards slotted at the same time you start amassing an army of angels with summons from your other two cards.

    I don't think MTG would have ever caught on if it was only ever summoning creatures and playing damage cards, and it seems like a shame for a MTG mmo to just go that route ._.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,039 Arc User
    the discard pile is probably 'this card goes on CD for x seconds/minutes after use'​​
    That has the possibility (likely low) of not having 4 cards, which they appear to always have. The easiest implementations are:
    • The card is put at a random location in your deck.
    • The card is put at a semi-random location in your deck (e.g. "the bottom 4").
    • The card is marked as discarded, and there is a trigger (such as running out of cards) for a reshuffle.
    Given that it's totally possible to draw the same card twice in a row in regular Magic (because you have more than one copy), I suspect they're just using the first option.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I'm still waiting to see them show something interesting... like a card pops up and all it does is make it so when your other summons die it spawns some little spirit creatures, and another card pops up that makes all spirit creatures turn into big angels, and if you have both cards slotted at the same time you start amassing an army of angels with summons from your other two cards.

    I don't think MTG would have ever caught on if it was only ever summoning creatures and playing damage cards, and it seems like a shame for a MTG mmo to just go that route ._.
    That reminds me the guy in the twitch video talked about spells to heal your creatures. There's probably buffs too.
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