XMPP Sunset

ambassadorkael

Greetings Champions,

As of September 19th, 2019, Champions Online will no longer be supporting connection to our internal chat system via an XMPP client. While this feature was interesting and often convenient, it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system. Allowing access via an XMPP client also creates several technical challenges that make it difficult to keep our in-game chat safe and smooth. At this time, we don’t have any plans to replace this with a different service.

Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

championshewolf

Can't say I am happy about this one bit. The ability to connect to various chat channels made it easier to track chats, especially given Champions chat server bad habit of deleting chat logs in situations like combat. Honestly, I would prefer an alternative be put up. Especially since CO's current chat set up doesn't have very good integration or use such as instant chat swap, like it does in its other two games, or the simple fact there is no identification of individuals talking with different name color plates.

I am going to be blunt, this is going to have a very negative impact on Champions as a whole. And it doesn't need anymore negative impacts.

poptartmaniac

I think I may have encountered, players selling accounts and what not, but they were already in game with characters, and some may spam you in mail? completely unrelated to xmpp.

Anyway, I am sad to see xmpp support go, as it's extremely hard to keep track of CO chat, specially because the chat log wipes itself a lot, I'll often miss messages and tells with everything that's constantly going on in sg chats, zone, etc, it was really useful to manage and keep track of everything, big groups might suffer.

If they need to remove this for security reasons I understand, I hope you guys can figure out a good alternative

tenebriswolf

Even though I don't use that feature myself, I've seen a lot of people use it. We use it on Dawn Radio so that people can know what song is currently being played. And I haven't seen any Gold Spammers in any chat for years in CO. So what's the big deal ? Feels more like "we don't know what to do with that and prefer to turn it off because none of the few people still working here knows how to fix it/make it better". I'm not saying it's the case, but it's how I feel.

kaiserin

Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

poptartmaniac

kaizerin wrote: »

Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

Well from what I heard STO and NWO had a lot of gold spammers, sucks we lose this but I get it

atlassarnosian

Damn, and here I was for many years trying to figure out how to even set up any one of these things. Oh well.

championshewolf

kaizerin wrote: »

Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

Will they be upgrading Champions chat to be at least on par with STO and Neverwinter and things like having a second visible chat box and the like? I mean having the ability to /s or /g and instantly change channels is one of the things I would love in Champions.

nbkxs

This sucks I often use this to see if there's anything going on, to see if I should log in to do something, >.< w/o that, I will probably be logging in less.

jaazaniah1

Never even knew about this, so it won't affect me at all.

themightyzenith

championshewolf wrote: »

... having a second visible chat box...

Man, I'd love that. Would be a big QOL improvement

sergeantmahoff1

Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move. Everyone getting punished because bots can't be removed feels kind of.. toxic. And even then, people either ignore them or report them for spam anyway.

Removing this is doing way more harm than good and I feel like this solution to that problem is more annoying to the community than the goldspammers are. If they're using zone and enabling these accounts through pidgin' or trillian or whatever, then why not just apply restrictions to zone? (Letting people use zone like that with pidign' definitely seems like a bad idea anyway.)

Additionally, don't you need to be LTS/have a gold sub or have that premium pack (I genuinely can't remember if the last one allows it or not.) to be able to use pidgin'? That would imply there's are already checks and balances in place. There could be more, couldn't there? I feel like the xmpp should be an advertised feature for CO. One that's regulated through the site much like being able to port PTS characters. Now if I can no longer be seen in game as Mr. Pop'n'lockadopolis, that's a shame. But if that means this QoL gets to stay in the game, then so be it.

johnbattle

I'm just curious... for those of us who are not hardcore gamers, what sort of applications are using XMPP?

somebob

ambassadorkael#6946 wrote: »

While this feature was interesting and often convenient, it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system.

Let me get this straight.

GOLD SPAMMERS spent $200 (however much it is here or in STO) for a Lifetime account to get access to XMPP (which AFAIK, can't actually connect to Zone chat, only private channels), to spam their wares?!?

I'm sorry, but try again. Care to tell us the truth this time? Is it more of the 'we're surprised that this feature still works in 2019 like the Foundry did in STO/NW, and we have no clue how to run it, thus we need to turn it off' instead?

Be honest with us. Don't lie.

lezard21

Cool \o/ More stuff we paid for to get access that is getting changed and/or removed. Fool me once, shame on you.

nbkxs wrote: »

This sucks I often use this to see if there's anything going on, to see if I should log in to do something, >.< w/o that, I will probably be logging in less.

Heck same, I haven't logged in to the game for almost 2 months now but I log in on pidgin to chat with some friends and find out what's been going on in the game.​​

mordray001

kaizerin wrote: »

Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

Interesting... my inner conspiracy nut is intrigued.

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

Never even knew about this, so it won't affect me at all.

Same. Lots of people who clearly were are going to throw fits, but for the rest of us... nothing has changed.

lezard21

Here I'mma just drop this quote (not mine) from a year ago when account costume slots were removed. It seems we still haven't learned anything.

carrionbaggage wrote: »

I understand the desire to use positive language in a marketing announcement. But adding a series of exclamation marks and phrases like "Good news" and "Enjoy these new options", in an article that reveals the removal of an existing service, mismatches tone and content.

The craft of the presentation intensified my negative reaction to the message, which I assume was not the intent of the writer.

​​

qawsada

What would happen to custom chat? I'm really concern about this.

wingedkagouti

sergeantmahoff1 wrote: »

Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move.

This is not about Champions Online gold spammers, it's about STO and NWO gold spammers. The Cryptic games share the same chat server and a change like this will impact all the games whether they were inundated with spammers or not.

onlyepicwolf

Another good thing bites the dust.

championshewolf

wingedkagouti wrote: »

sergeantmahoff1 wrote: »

Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move.

This is not about Champions Online gold spammers, it's about STO and NWO gold spammers. The Cryptic games share the same chat server and a change like this will impact all the games whether they were inundated with spammers or not.

Honestly, I don't believe that is the case even in those two games since the only time I see gold spam is resulted from in game emails, not the XMPP, which again, as you point out, is connected to the Cryptic chat server, which means given how most of those work would be spammed to CO players to. So either I have been extremely lucky when I play STO and NW to rarely see zone chat filled with such things (which zone chat as far as I am aware is not able to be reached with XMPP programs) or I had magically ignored all the potential spammers in existence that have played a Cryptic game.

And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.

jaazaniah1

Huh, now I'm wondering how many people use this? Just a vocal few or lots and lots? I haven't seen a Gold spammer in CO in a couple years now. Are they really that common in STO and NW?

silvergryph

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

Huh, now I'm wondering how many people use this? Just a vocal few or lots and lots? I haven't seen a Gold spammer in CO in a couple years now. Are they really that common in STO and NW?

There are times in Neverwinter where I will not see one for several minutes and times when I will see one every 8 to 10 seconds for the better part of an hour.

pantagruel01

It's possible that their implementation is buggy enough that gold spammers can get in without a subscription. However, I don't think zone chat is accessible to xmpp anyway, they'd be hitting standard or custom channels.

wingedkagouti

championshewolf wrote: »

And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.

I'm fairly certain the requirement for access to XMPP with an account that plays Neverwinter has a much more lax requirement than it does/did for CO. NWO doesn't have the same gold/silver account distinction (or at least it didn't when I checked it out).

It sucks that it has to be shut down and I'm indirectly affected as several players in one of the channels I participate in use it. But I have no say in the decision and their reasoning is plausible. Besides, keeping a channel such as this open for outside communication is a potential vector for third party abuse.

championshewolf

wingedkagouti wrote: »

championshewolf wrote: »

And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.

I'm fairly certain the requirement for access to XMPP with an account that plays Neverwinter has a much more lax requirement than it does/did for CO. NWO doesn't have the same gold/silver account distinction (or at least it didn't when I checked it out).

It sucks that it has to be shut down and I'm indirectly affected as several players in one of the channels I participate in use it. But I have no say in the decision and their reasoning is plausible. Besides, keeping a channel such as this open for outside communication is a potential vector for third party abuse.

Which still seems bumkiss since I've been in both games and the only time I really see a gold spammer is through the in game email system which would be tremendously cheaper than actually trying to build up resources to get the zen for the VIP program, and once again zone doesn't seem accessible with the XMPP hook up that I am aware of, and since the channels are shared throughout all games, and a multitude of channels I am in are actually used in all games, it highly suspect to me that CO is not suffering this plague from the other games.

So, the blanket statement of combating gold spammers just seems highly suspect. And I will just say this is another thing coming down entirely and honestly, this removal should warrant they actually fix and improve Champions chat system to be on par with the other two games in the process because it's been several years now while both of those games have had their chat systems improved CO is still using a clunky mess instead while still connected to the same chat server.

nbkxs

You know, since gold sellers, and whatever aren't existent in CO, you could just disable the feature for STO and NWO, and leave it for us, since a vast majority of the folks around here use it heavily, and rely on it for IG communication when we're multitasking, and doing other things.

ealford1985

Yeah that’s not happening. They want consistency across all platforms...or At least that’s the goal it seems

kallethen

I don't think it'd be possible to turn it off for just NW and STO but leave it for CO. The three games share a server specifically for all the chat, and that's what XMPP connects to. It's all or nothing.​​

spinnytop

Okay I'm a bit late to this but as I understand it, they have to get rid of the thing because gold spammers are spamming in private channels and super group chats, and to make our chat "safe and smooth".

pantagruel01

I assume that it's a case of "this system requires maintenance and maintenance costs money" (also, maintenance may include security fixes, which is what would be an issue for spammers). Safe to say complaining here won't help, I'm sure Kaiserin doesn't like losing XMPP either, she's been using it for years.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

Safe to say complaining here won't help

You're a bit late with that.

colonelwing

Good riddance, only 3 of my 125 friends actually use it.

itsbrou

I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.

spinnytop

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.

What can I do to stop this from happening?

ealford1985

[does everything he can] nothing happens.

nbkxs

Yeah, this is a sad time; I think this is the end of the road for me, this was too much of a useful tool for everything to go on without it. CO would just stay minimized in the background.

aiqa

I am very disappointed with this plan, and I think it's the negative impact it will have on CO is quite underestimated.

jaazaniah1

Presumably he just bought the company and has changed the policy?

spinnytop wrote: »

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.

What can I do to stop this from happening?

jennymachx

Unless I'm not understanding it correctly, do gold spammers have access to the XMPP service without a premium or LTS account hence the reason for removing the service entirely, or do you guys seriously think that the spammer problem is on such a drastic level that it justifies removing the service entirely?

Because I'm not convinced either way. If you guys just feel that it's not worth keeping the service maintained just go with that. You don't have to make up reasons.

lezard21

The death of XMPP in my case at least means that I'd probably won't be playing the game for a long while. Pidgin was my main source of game update information for when I was not logging in daily mostly because

a) news section generally uses a lot of flair to end up giving very little actual information not to mention that it's often incorrect to the point of being a running meme
b) patch notes are generally not entirely transparent
c) steam news page is not frequently upd---AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(d) trying to find or get some concise specific information in the unofficial discord often requires sorting through a crapton of shitposts) <- not cryptic's fault, since it's unofficial.

now someone naive would hope that the end of XMPP support would come along with improvements in communication regarding the above issues, but not even the reason given to XMPP's termination has been transparent, so guess I'll see y'all next year or some.​​

nbkxs

This is especially going to make trading a nightmare. Typically, you post your adverts in trade, and zone, then tab down, and wait for the xmpp PM to pop up with an offer, or such. Without that, it's going to be tabbing back in 30 minutes later to find anyone that offered you was missed because you didn't notice them, and you missed the trades. ,,|,,

jaazaniah1

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

aiqa

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

iamrune

ambassadorkael#6946 wrote: »

Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

So, Ambassadorkael, where is that update with additional notices or clarifications?

This time, try being honest and upfront with us, instead of leaning into that same line of .. Bullpucky you guys pulled when you took away Subscriptions.

None of us are buying this "safe and smooth", by the way, hell even perenial troll spinnytop "DOUBTS" [nice use of a meme there, btw, Spinny].

We know XMPP can't connect to Zone chat in any of the games, so how on any earth could it allow goldsellers of any kind any useful function in any of the games? You can tell us now, it isn't like the information here will give anyone else here ideas about hacking in with it, when it's going away.

All the spamming I saw in NW for years was in emails. Spammers and goldsellers would just log in-game, open up search and send massive amounts of in-game email to every account they saw online that wasn't whitelisted from searches.

XMPP had nothing to do with that.

jaazaniah1

I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

aiqa wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

championshewolf

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

aiqa wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

jaazaniah1

I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

championshewolf wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

aiqa wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

championshewolf

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

championshewolf wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

aiqa wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

A tool that has made life easier for a lot of people either in assisting with translating conversations for some or to track conversations easier, it has been an invaluable tool, especially considering Champions current chat set up is woefully disappointing. But you would be hard pressed to miss it since I know over the years there have been multiple threads pop up that you've had to have seen.

jaazaniah1

Nope. I don't recall seeing any such threads or the sticky. There aren't all that many parts of this forum that I look at (at least regularly) I am also not on the Discord thing, Steam or any social media related to CO, so I may well miss a lot. I've simply made do with the CO chat function as is. I am not a fast in-game typist, so even chat I don't use very much though I do read it in combat to follow the action/problems. You may think it incredible that I have missed discussions about a topic/facet of the game that is important to you, but I have. That's life.

championshewolf wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

championshewolf wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

aiqa wrote: »

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

A tool that has made life easier for a lot of people either in assisting with translating conversations for some or to track conversations easier, it has been an invaluable tool, especially considering Champions current chat set up is woefully disappointing. But you would be hard pressed to miss it since I know over the years there have been multiple threads pop up that you've had to have seen.

ealford1985

Seemed like a neat system, but not a game shattering experience if gone.