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XMPP Sunset

Greetings Champions,

As of September 19th, 2019, Champions Online will no longer be supporting connection to our internal chat system via an XMPP client. While this feature was interesting and often convenient, it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system. Allowing access via an XMPP client also creates several technical challenges that make it difficult to keep our in-game chat safe and smooth. At this time, we don’t have any plans to replace this with a different service.

Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Can't say I am happy about this one bit. The ability to connect to various chat channels made it easier to track chats, especially given Champions chat server bad habit of deleting chat logs in situations like combat. Honestly, I would prefer an alternative be put up. Especially since CO's current chat set up doesn't have very good integration or use such as instant chat swap, like it does in its other two games, or the simple fact there is no identification of individuals talking with different name color plates.

    I am going to be blunt, this is going to have a very negative impact on Champions as a whole. And it doesn't need anymore negative impacts.
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  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    I think I may have encountered, players selling accounts and what not, but they were already in game with characters, and some may spam you in mail? completely unrelated to xmpp.

    Anyway, I am sad to see xmpp support go, as it's extremely hard to keep track of CO chat, specially because the chat log wipes itself a lot, I'll often miss messages and tells with everything that's constantly going on in sg chats, zone, etc, it was really useful to manage and keep track of everything, big groups might suffer.

    If they need to remove this for security reasons I understand, I hope you guys can figure out a good alternative :(
    Post edited by poptartmaniac#8493 on
  • tenebriswolftenebriswolf Posts: 54 Arc User
    Even though I don't use that feature myself, I've seen a lot of people use it. We use it on Dawn Radio so that people can know what song is currently being played. And I haven't seen any Gold Spammers in any chat for years in CO. So what's the big deal ? Feels more like "we don't know what to do with that and prefer to turn it off because none of the few people still working here knows how to fix it/make it better". I'm not saying it's the case, but it's how I feel.
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  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 2,848 Cryptic Developer
    Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.
  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

    Well from what I heard STO and NWO had a lot of gold spammers, sucks we lose this but I get it :(
  • atlassarnosianatlassarnosian Posts: 160 Arc User
    Damn, and here I was for many years trying to figure out how to even set up any one of these things. Oh well.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.

    Will they be upgrading Champions chat to be at least on par with STO and Neverwinter and things like having a second visible chat box and the like? I mean having the ability to /s or /g and instantly change channels is one of the things I would love in Champions.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 752 Arc User
    This sucks :( I often use this to see if there's anything going on, to see if I should log in to do something, >.< w/o that, I will probably be logging in less.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    Never even knew about this, so it won't affect me at all.
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    ... having a second visible chat box...

    Man, I'd love that. Would be a big QOL improvement

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  • sergeantmahoff1sergeantmahoff1 Posts: 133 Arc User
    Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move. Everyone getting punished because bots can't be removed feels kind of.. toxic. And even then, people either ignore them or report them for spam anyway.

    Removing this is doing way more harm than good and I feel like this solution to that problem is more annoying to the community than the goldspammers are. If they're using zone and enabling these accounts through pidgin' or trillian or whatever, then why not just apply restrictions to zone? (Letting people use zone like that with pidign' definitely seems like a bad idea anyway.)

    Additionally, don't you need to be LTS/have a gold sub or have that premium pack (I genuinely can't remember if the last one allows it or not.) to be able to use pidgin'? That would imply there's are already checks and balances in place. There could be more, couldn't there? I feel like the xmpp should be an advertised feature for CO. One that's regulated through the site much like being able to port PTS characters. Now if I can no longer be seen in game as Mr. Pop'n'lockadopolis, that's a shame. But if that means this QoL gets to stay in the game, then so be it.
  • johnbattlejohnbattle Posts: 52 Arc User
    I'm just curious... for those of us who are not hardcore gamers, what sort of applications are using XMPP?
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  • somebobsomebob Posts: 980 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    While this feature was interesting and often convenient, it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system.

    Let me get this straight.

    GOLD SPAMMERS spent $200 (however much it is here or in STO) for a Lifetime account to get access to XMPP (which AFAIK, can't actually connect to Zone chat, only private channels), to spam their wares?!?

    I'm sorry, but try again. Care to tell us the truth this time? Is it more of the 'we're surprised that this feature still works in 2019 like the Foundry did in STO/NW, and we have no clue how to run it, thus we need to turn it off' instead?

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  • mordray001mordray001 Posts: 218 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Hey guys, this is a change that's going to impact all of the Cryptic games, and isn't specific to Champs.
    Interesting... my inner conspiracy nut is intrigued.
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Never even knew about this, so it won't affect me at all.
    Same. Lots of people who clearly were are going to throw fits, but for the rest of us... nothing has changed.
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 727 Arc User
    What would happen to custom chat? I'm really concern about this.
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 555 Arc User
    Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move.
    This is not about Champions Online gold spammers, it's about STO and NWO gold spammers. The Cryptic games share the same chat server and a change like this will impact all the games whether they were inundated with spammers or not.
  • onlyepicwolfonlyepicwolf Posts: 94 Arc User
    Another good thing bites the dust.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Realistically speaking, removing something because of goldspammers that no one ever really sees in game (and I mean that. Gold spammers are practically extinct by now.) is a bit of an odd move.
    This is not about Champions Online gold spammers, it's about STO and NWO gold spammers. The Cryptic games share the same chat server and a change like this will impact all the games whether they were inundated with spammers or not.

    Honestly, I don't believe that is the case even in those two games since the only time I see gold spam is resulted from in game emails, not the XMPP, which again, as you point out, is connected to the Cryptic chat server, which means given how most of those work would be spammed to CO players to. So either I have been extremely lucky when I play STO and NW to rarely see zone chat filled with such things (which zone chat as far as I am aware is not able to be reached with XMPP programs) or I had magically ignored all the potential spammers in existence that have played a Cryptic game.

    And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    Huh, now I'm wondering how many people use this? Just a vocal few or lots and lots? I haven't seen a Gold spammer in CO in a couple years now. Are they really that common in STO and NW?
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  • silvergryphsilvergryph Posts: 63 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Huh, now I'm wondering how many people use this? Just a vocal few or lots and lots? I haven't seen a Gold spammer in CO in a couple years now. Are they really that common in STO and NW?

    There are times in Neverwinter where I will not see one for several minutes and times when I will see one every 8 to 10 seconds for the better part of an hour.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    It's possible that their implementation is buggy enough that gold spammers can get in without a subscription. However, I don't think zone chat is accessible to xmpp anyway, they'd be hitting standard or custom channels.
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 555 Arc User
    And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.
    I'm fairly certain the requirement for access to XMPP with an account that plays Neverwinter has a much more lax requirement than it does/did for CO. NWO doesn't have the same gold/silver account distinction (or at least it didn't when I checked it out).

    It sucks that it has to be shut down and I'm indirectly affected as several players in one of the channels I participate in use it. But I have no say in the decision and their reasoning is plausible. Besides, keeping a channel such as this open for outside communication is a potential vector for third party abuse.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    And as pointed out, it would seem highly unlikely a gold spammer would drop a ton of money to be able to have access to this feature.
    I'm fairly certain the requirement for access to XMPP with an account that plays Neverwinter has a much more lax requirement than it does/did for CO. NWO doesn't have the same gold/silver account distinction (or at least it didn't when I checked it out).

    It sucks that it has to be shut down and I'm indirectly affected as several players in one of the channels I participate in use it. But I have no say in the decision and their reasoning is plausible. Besides, keeping a channel such as this open for outside communication is a potential vector for third party abuse.

    Which still seems bumkiss since I've been in both games and the only time I really see a gold spammer is through the in game email system which would be tremendously cheaper than actually trying to build up resources to get the zen for the VIP program, and once again zone doesn't seem accessible with the XMPP hook up that I am aware of, and since the channels are shared throughout all games, and a multitude of channels I am in are actually used in all games, it highly suspect to me that CO is not suffering this plague from the other games.

    So, the blanket statement of combating gold spammers just seems highly suspect. And I will just say this is another thing coming down entirely and honestly, this removal should warrant they actually fix and improve Champions chat system to be on par with the other two games in the process because it's been several years now while both of those games have had their chat systems improved CO is still using a clunky mess instead while still connected to the same chat server.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 752 Arc User
    You know, since gold sellers, and whatever aren't existent in CO, you could just disable the feature for STO and NWO, and leave it for us, since a vast majority of the folks around here use it heavily, and rely on it for IG communication when we're multitasking, and doing other things.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Yeah that’s not happening. They want consistency across all platforms...or At least that’s the goal it seems
    Post edited by ealford1985 on
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    I don't think it'd be possible to turn it off for just NW and STO but leave it for CO. The three games share a server specifically for all the chat, and that's what XMPP connects to. It's all or nothing.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Okay I'm a bit late to this but as I understand it, they have to get rid of the thing because gold spammers are spamming in private channels and super group chats, and to make our chat "safe and smooth".

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I assume that it's a case of "this system requires maintenance and maintenance costs money" (also, maintenance may include security fixes, which is what would be an issue for spammers). Safe to say complaining here won't help, I'm sure Kaiserin doesn't like losing XMPP either, she's been using it for years.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Safe to say complaining here won't help

    You're a bit late with that.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 297 Arc User
    Good riddance, only 3 of my 125 friends actually use it.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,771 Arc User
    I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.

    What can I do to stop this from happening?
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    [does everything he can] nothing happens.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 752 Arc User
    Yeah, this is a sad time; I think this is the end of the road for me, this was too much of a useful tool for everything to go on without it. CO would just stay minimized in the background.
    [NbK]XStorm
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    I am very disappointed with this plan, and I think it's the negative impact it will have on CO is quite underestimated.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    Presumably he just bought the company and has changed the policy?
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I will do everything I can to stop this from happening. Shame on the people accepting this like nothing can be done.

    What can I do to stop this from happening?

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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    Unless I'm not understanding it correctly, do gold spammers have access to the XMPP service without a premium or LTS account hence the reason for removing the service entirely, or do you guys seriously think that the spammer problem is on such a drastic level that it justifies removing the service entirely?

    Because I'm not convinced either way. If you guys just feel that it's not worth keeping the service maintained just go with that. You don't have to make up reasons.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 752 Arc User
    This is especially going to make trading a nightmare. Typically, you post your adverts in trade, and zone, then tab down, and wait for the xmpp PM to pop up with an offer, or such. Without that, it's going to be tabbing back in 30 minutes later to find anyone that offered you was missed because you didn't notice them, and you missed the trades. ,,|,,
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 964 Arc User
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    So, Ambassadorkael, where is that update with additional notices or clarifications?

    This time, try being honest and upfront with us, instead of leaning into that same line of .. Bullpucky you guys pulled when you took away Subscriptions.

    None of us are buying this "safe and smooth", by the way, hell even perenial troll spinnytop "DOUBTS" [nice use of a meme there, btw, Spinny].

    We know XMPP can't connect to Zone chat in any of the games, so how on any earth could it allow goldsellers of any kind any useful function in any of the games? You can tell us now, it isn't like the information here will give anyone else here ideas about hacking in with it, when it's going away.

    All the spamming I saw in NW for years was in emails. Spammers and goldsellers would just log in-game, open up search and send massive amounts of in-game email to every account they saw online that wasn't whitelisted from searches.

    XMPP had nothing to do with that.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.
    aiqa wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.
    aiqa wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

    I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.
    aiqa wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

    I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

    JwLmWoa.png
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.
    aiqa wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

    I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

    A tool that has made life easier for a lot of people either in assisting with translating conversations for some or to track conversations easier, it has been an invaluable tool, especially considering Champions current chat set up is woefully disappointing. But you would be hard pressed to miss it since I know over the years there have been multiple threads pop up that you've had to have seen.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,145 Arc User
    Nope. I don't recall seeing any such threads or the sticky. There aren't all that many parts of this forum that I look at (at least regularly) I am also not on the Discord thing, Steam or any social media related to CO, so I may well miss a lot. I've simply made do with the CO chat function as is. I am not a fast in-game typist, so even chat I don't use very much though I do read it in combat to follow the action/problems. You may think it incredible that I have missed discussions about a topic/facet of the game that is important to you, but I have. That's life.
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I can't say that I remember anyone telling me about this function, but if it was years ago ...? I also never noticed a sticky about it, but there are lots of stickies I've probably never noticed. Be all that as it may it is still a feature I did not know about. When I saw a notice about it it didn't ring a bell, and since I did not know about it, it surprised me that some people cared enough about it to threaten to quit the game over it.

    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.
    aiqa wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    To think of all the things I've missed playing for so many years and never knowing about this.

    Do you often make a point of announcing you don't care and it doesn't affect you, when other people are sad after receiving bad news?

    I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

    A tool that has made life easier for a lot of people either in assisting with translating conversations for some or to track conversations easier, it has been an invaluable tool, especially considering Champions current chat set up is woefully disappointing. But you would be hard pressed to miss it since I know over the years there have been multiple threads pop up that you've had to have seen.

    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Seemed like a neat system, but not a game shattering experience if gone.
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