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XMPP Sunset

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  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    I didnt find out about this until late December 2017 and used it everyday until my subscription ran out so I would say it was fun while it lasted but kinda sad to see it go. I hope an alternative is implemented but we have to remember that this wasn't owned by Cryptic so that's probably why the gold sellers got through but that's fine. Really hoping on an alternative for both Silver/Premium and Gold players.
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  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    ...It's like I'm not even here.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    I mean that I'm sad that I never heard of this feature before it was removed. No one ever mentioned it to me and I never saw any information on it or how to use it. So, for me it's like a feature of the game that never existed. It never improved my experience of the game while it was here, nor will its removal affect my enjoyment of the game going forward. It does seem weird to me, since I never heard of this function, that people would talk about quitting the game over it.

    Then you are super bad at putting your thoughts into words. After multiple messages saying you don't care and making fun of people who do, a sudden change of heart could have used a better worded post.
    I didnt find out about this until late December 2017 and used it everyday until my subscription ran out so I would say it was fun while it lasted but kinda sad to see it go. I hope an alternative is implemented but we have to remember that this wasn't owned by Cryptic so that's probably why the gold sellers got through but that's fine. Really hoping on an alternative for both Silver/Premium and Gold players.

    Contrary to what the title to this thread says, cryptic is not shutting down xmpp. Xmpp is just a chat protocol, cryptic doesn't own the protocol and has no influence over it. They are stopping their own xmpp server, which is very much owned by cryptic, and which is a service they sold as part of gold status (sub or LTS). But now that they stopped selling subs, it seems they are just pretending a LTS doesn't exist anymore.

    In a short period this is the third time Cryptic is handling things terrible.
    To list them:
    - Limiting character slot, which was a paid and advertised feature. And then pretending it was all ok, because some internal documentation (that players had no access to) said the original plans were to only give one new character slot.
    - The sub thing, where they promised existing subs would be able to continue. But they don't provide a ways to update payment details, so when your credit card expires that's it.
    - And now xmpp, which is also a feature people paid for.

    And cryptic never really addresses these concerns. Even in this thread where in the OP they ask for feedback and promise clarification, everything is just ignored. And for the bigger game (STO) that might have had a small chance of influencing things, some a forum mod locked their version of the xmpp sunset thread because "it was going nowhere" (people were expressing their discontent).

    So no, Cryptic is not blameless and is not handling things well. And at least for me this is taking a huge bite out of the goodwill I had left for CO.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    I guess maybe it wasn't an advertised feature that's why Jaaz doesn't know about it. I get what you're saying about this matter but they didn't forget that LTS exists, but I could just be saying my interpretation of the matter. It would hurt to see a feature (again probably not advertised as one) go but no need to think that someone isn't feeling bad that it's gone. Anyways, Cryptic isn't perfect so we can hold them accountable and that's okay. We're all humans so just forcing all the blame on the company for something they can't 100% prevent isn't good but that's just my 2 cents on the matter.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    -removed by user-
    Post edited by jennymachx on
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    You guys are being excessive with Jaaz.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    I had some other reasons to do this, but mostly because of XMPP.
    but for the foreseeable future I have pulled my guides and feature documentation from this site.

    I am sick of seeing features stripped from these games. I invite others who have made this feature an important part of their experience with the game to consider making their voices heard.


    Brou out.

    #XMPP

    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Seems foolish, but you have your right to do so.

    But no reason to ask everyone else to take their ball and run home.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I'm not sure why you guys are going in so hard on jaazaniah. He explained that he wasn't taking a jab at people who like the function, and was actually saddened that it's going away before he ever actually got to use it. So maybe he doesn't remember the times someone told him about this.... you ever forget a thing? I forgot a thing once too. Happens. Geez, it's almost like sometimes you people say people are being jerks and will then refuse to accept any information that conflicts with that assessment o3o for years sometimes
    iamrune wrote: »
    nice use of a meme there, btw, Spinny.

    Thanks. It just immediately sprung to mind when I read "safe and smooth"... cause like... wtf does that even mean? Also gold spammers in private channels.. you figure TEG would be rife with them.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Based on prior behavior by Cryptic, I suspect the story behind this is:
    1. XMPP needs maintenance. Likely this is because it has a flaw that malicious actors can exploit, as otherwise it seems possible to just keep the existing code running.
    2. The XMPP code is a hideous mass of uncommented code that no-one currently working for Cryptic understands, and would cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of programmer time to get someone new up to speed.
    3. They did not think the feature was popular enough to justify that expense.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 800 Arc User
    You guys are being excessive with Jaaz.

    Yeah, they started at "excessive" and then just kept on exceeding.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    I removed my post. Yeah I admit I was being too harsh. I apologise.

    I would like to see a new ingame
    chat feature that allows for multiple chat windows that we can customize for individual user chat channels. That's one thing I found useful in XMPP.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 800 Arc User
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I would like to see a new ingame
    chat feature that allows for multiple chat windows that we can customize for individual user chat channels. That's one thing I found useful in XMPP.

    I personally never used XMPP, but I'd like to see a feature like this, also. Seems like it's a big issue for several people, so hopefully they can/will do something to make up for what's being lost.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Based on prior behavior by Cryptic, I suspect the story behind this is:
    1. XMPP needs maintenance. Likely this is because it has a flaw that malicious actors can exploit, as otherwise it seems possible to just keep the existing code running.
    2. The XMPP code is a hideous mass of uncommented code that no-one currently working for Cryptic understands, and would cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of programmer time to get someone new up to speed.
    3. They did not think the feature was popular enough to justify that expense.

    Is it an example of irony that the reason it might not have been popular is that they didn't advertise that feature at all .-. "This thing we didn't market isn't popular, so it's not worth an expense" seems to be a common theme...
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    [Is it an example of irony that the reason it might not have been popular is that they didn't advertise that feature at all .-.
    I think it was a never fully implemented feature. I actually didn't use it because I was never able to make it work.
  • somebobsomebob Posts: 980 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    spinnytop wrote: »
    [Is it an example of irony that the reason it might not have been popular is that they didn't advertise that feature at all .-.
    I think it was a never fully implemented feature. I actually didn't use it because I was never able to make it work.

    Cryptic used it...funkily. There were very few programs that could properly access it (Pidgin and Trillian on PC, and a single program over on the Android platform, and that was like it), and as such it was one of those 'hidden features' if you will.

    Guild leaders apparently used it a ton, as people could just post to a channel with specific keywords like 'invite' and such and then a leader or someone with invite powers could take care of it anytime later once they were online as Pidgin and such could ping and leave a notification for later viewing.
    iamrune wrote: »
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    So, Ambassadorkael, where is that update with additional notices or clarifications?

    This time, try being honest and upfront with us, instead of leaning into that same line of .. Bullpucky you guys pulled when you took away Subscriptions.

    Sadly, Rune, it seems that Cryptic is just going to plunk their head into the ground and pretend that nobody said anything because they haven't said anything ANYWHERE on this matter. Their know their reasons are a complete lie and they got caught on it...and they don't care.
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  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    somebob wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    [Is it an example of irony that the reason it might not have been popular is that they didn't advertise that feature at all .-.
    I think it was a never fully implemented feature. I actually didn't use it because I was never able to make it work.

    Cryptic used it...funkily. There were very few programs that could properly access it (Pidgin and Trillian on PC, and a single program over on the Android platform, and that was like it), and as such it was one of those 'hidden features' if you will.

    Guild leaders apparently used it a ton, as people could just post to a channel with specific keywords like 'invite' and such and then a leader or someone with invite powers could take care of it anytime later once they were online as Pidgin and such could ping and leave a notification for later viewing.
    iamrune wrote: »
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    So, Ambassadorkael, where is that update with additional notices or clarifications?

    This time, try being honest and upfront with us, instead of leaning into that same line of .. Bullpucky you guys pulled when you took away Subscriptions.

    Sadly, Rune, it seems that Cryptic is just going to plunk their head into the ground and pretend that nobody said anything because they haven't said anything ANYWHERE on this matter. Their know their reasons are a complete lie and they got caught on it...and they don't care.

    It's galling. Just unbelievable they won't even make the effort to engage with us honestly or directly any longer. I hate to say it, but I miss the Old Cryptic, pre PW. They may have been.. er, Cryptic at times, but they communicated with us. and lies were rare, and when they happened they were miscommunications that were quickly resolved.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Are you surprised? This is how they have always been regarding issues that upset people.

    I’m not shocked at all.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    They might be actively working on a solution behind the scenes and don't want to share until its time.
    || Main Tank || DPSer || Healer || CCer || Altoholic || @shadowolf505 in game ||
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    They might be actively working on a solution behind the scenes and don't want to share until its time.

    Well, it's happening tomorrow so that time is almost up...


    As of September 19th, 2019, Champions Online will no longer be supporting connection to our internal chat system via an XMPP client.


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  • They might be actively working on a solution behind the scenes and don't want to share until its time.

    there is no appropriate champions gif for this, so you'll have to do with a star trek one

    worf_laugh.gif​​
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    Well xmpp is down now, and not a word from the community manager.

    Over the years I've spend a huge amount of money on CO (2 LTS and well over 2000 euro on zen), but seeing how untrustworthy cryptic is these days from now on I don't think I'll ever spend a single cent on any of their games.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Have they ever been trusted?
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,534 Arc User
    Well, I stopped trusting them when the did away with monthly subs, but promised that those who had monthly subs could continue those as long as they maintained payments, but then didn't add a way to update cred card information, so even if one wanted to maintain such a sub, there was no way to do so. They either did that intentionally, which was just mean, or unintentionally, which was just incompetent. I never heard if they offered players who lost such subscriptions any sort of compensation (e.g. 1 permanent FF slot would have been nice). I still play the game, and will put money into it, but I don't trust what the devs/spokespeople say until it actually happens.
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  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Perfect World Entertainment has let me down.

    I will never charge zen again.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • A bit dispointed but can't say I'm not srupised Pidgin was always so fuckie, if you lose your net, you have to reset it over and over and god forbid you invite yourself to a SG and now everyone spams you with logins. So it was a really unreliable thing, it works then it don't, etc.

    The comments here tho, are popcorn worthy I tell you that much, anyone got that GIF for me?
    Psi.
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Posts: 405 Arc User

    I am quite sure I've mentioned it to you at least once years ago. And considering it has been posted about on these forums a few times, not to mention a sticky thread on how to connect with XMPP I am finding this statement a bit... bizarre.

    I have only vaguely heard of this from a few friends and have never noticed the post about it in all this time. It is not really that hard to miss. It is not presented in-game anywhere as part of the game or a feature to take advantage of. I would imagine 99.9% of newcomers to Champs have no idea it exists either and will not notice it vanish.

    It is a shame that it is disappearing with apparently no replacement whatsoever. It would be nice if it could have simply been modified in some fashion to deal with whatever issues were being had.
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    Hey, Kael, whatever happened to this? I really don't mean to come across as rude, but it's been two months now.
  • fermifermi Posts: 117 Arc User
    Why would anyone answer if they're only going to be called a liar?
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    iamrune wrote: »
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    Hey, Kael, whatever happened to this? I really don't mean to come across as rude, but it's been two months now.

    I'm guessing they didn't notice or can't clarify it any better than they have.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    fermi wrote: »
    Why would anyone answer if they're only going to be called a liar?

    Because it's his job? And because he more or less promised:
    Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.

    Now if course you can debate what "as needed" means.
    Either this means it's not needed now... which means he doesn't care at all about what CO/STO players say.
    But that would not be something that suddenly happened, so even that would be very dishonest.
    Or it means it is needed, and that he lied.

    And also.
    Removing a feature some people care about, with a super questionable explanation, is going to prompt some negativity. It is his job to be able to handle the community, that is not a job for thin skinned people.
    If Cryptic expected everyone to be completely happy with this change, or accept the explanation without further details, they were super naive.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,534 Arc User
    It seems that a key Dev skill (at least at CO?) is learning how to avoid addressing truly legitimate player concerns in the hope that people forget about them in time. Also a key skill for politicians.
    aiqa wrote: »
    fermi wrote: »
    Removing a feature some people care about, with a super questionable explanation, is going to prompt some negativity. It is his job to be able to handle the community, that is not a job for thin skinned people.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    Clearly it’s not “needed” according to his promise to update
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I mean I guess we could ask ourselves, what would they say?
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    They could have said they are removing it cause they no longer have the technical and/or financial capability to support it. Which is what they should have also said when they removed monthly subs.

    Instead they went with "hurrr cause gold $eller$" and "we are excited with these change as we are sure you players are weeeeeeeeee!!uno!1!!"

    It would be one thing if this ocurrence was an isolated event, but as of the last year every negative change that came to be has not been transparent and/or has been embelished with lies or positive reinforcement language. And every single time the community has reacted negatively to this, meaning that no lesson has been learned at all.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    They could have said they are removing it cause they no longer have the technical and/or financial capability to support it.
    Or rather, that the cost of supporting it exceeds what they're willing to pay (it's likely that supporting XMPP would be cheaper than continuing to support subs, but also something they'd consider lower value). But yes, they seem to be allergic to explaining changes in terms that reveal that they are less than perfect.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    Looks like Perfect World Entertainment responded to my efforts to be heard... by making them harder to see.
    This company has stripped so much stuff away.
    Crypticspace: player blog system
    Rate My Champion
    Champedia(think wow armory for co)
    The website version if Zen Store
    Using Ingame mail from the site
    Making profile pics from characters
    XMPP

    I've probably missed some because it's just that numerous.

    These features have something in common, they establish a connection to the outside world and give an impression of a community that lives in the game. They invite you to reinstall and explore, or they'll draw you in for the first time. Some of these are passion projects.

    Never have I played a game that has destroyed their supporting features like this. They're supposed to be built on. We're supposed to be trying to be visible any place we can be, not retracting and blending in with the noise.

    I for one saw some real potential for xmpp. I saw a very clever use for it in the form of a connector that would relay messages between a supergroup IRC chat and ingame chat channel, and a bot that would roll dice and play games with people who interacted with it. You hurt them.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    I mean let's be honest. No matter what they said, ya'll would call them liars.
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 565 Arc User
    Looks like Perfect World Entertainment responded to my efforts to be heard... by making them harder to see.
    This company has stripped so much stuff away.
    Crypticspace: player blog system
    Rate My Champion
    Champedia(think wow armory for co)
    The website version if Zen Store
    Using Ingame mail from the site
    Making profile pics from characters
    To be fair, a lot of those features were cut when they switched sites the first time and the person responsible for implementing those API integrations were on a different project at the time (either STO or NWO). Accessing ingame mail via forum PMs was ditched in a forum move and at the time they didn't have the development manpower to work on something "non-essential". These features were from what I recall also stated to be mostly ignored by the majority of the playerbase.

    Still sucks to lose those features, and to me the game would feel more complete if they were somehow brought back.
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