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Thank you for listening
johnystelar1
Posts: 67 Arc User
Now I'm not sure what outcome's going to come out of this, but the CO community is happy to know that you guys heard their voice, that you didn't ignore the feedback, this is something not many game companies do (if any) and the fact they have been heard, makes them happy, so I would like to thank you, it shows that you -do- care for this game's community, now i've had my fair share of disagreements with kaiserin, on the forums, game, and discord, but I'd like to thank her for interacting with the players, and being the face of the devs, must be quite a task, to get all the rage from people and some of the blame (despite players realizing she is not to blame for this) and for listening to us in the CO discord, it is appreciated, thank you all again for listening to the feedback to your community, and we hope you can figure something out, i will not be posting suggestions here and this is not 'but-kissing' as people will say, i'm simply giving a thank you for hearing us out.
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Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
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They didn't look closely enough at the thing they were changing. They basically spent an entire year talking among themselves and didn't include anyone from the cryptic staff in their talks.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
New archetype! You heard it here first!
Pissing off customers does effect the bottom line. I watched a GDC talk about how much cheaper it was to bring back a former player than it was to acquire new players. (Well, it's actually about player retention.) Taking a giant dump on your existing players is going to make it incredibly difficult to accomplish either. Former players won't come back and will bad mouth the game to potential new players.
Grandfathering in ALL former gold subs, including people that haven't played in years, could actually be a great way to generate more revenue. This move was just pure stupid even from just a business standpoint.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Note that I'm not defending or even justifying the way this was handled, as "giant dump on the playerbase" sums it up pretty damned well. I'm just trying to take a look at things from their perspective.
1. No new subscriptions.
2. If your account has ever been subscribed, you can renew that subscription at any point, it will never permanently lapse.
So people who were fine with 15 a month can keep paying that, and they don't have to process any new subs. At the same time, put out the Premium Pack, which is a great idea even in a vacuum, and also keep looking into the conversion tokens and release those if/when they're viable.
So now they both keep subscribers as they are right now, while also giving subbers who don't want to be subbed anymore a way to retain access to their FFs in a bit-by-bit fashion that fits their financial situation ( which is why they chose subs over LTS ), and also make sales with the Premium Pack. Maximum profit with zero heartache for players, and nobody really has a reason to ask for anything to be free ( or be grandfathered ).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It doesn't help players that want to come back to the game but aren't sure about spending money, only the ones that are sure. That turns away many players that want to see if the game is worth paying for again. Locking characters at all is is the issue, and it has been the issue since the conversion.
SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Eh, in my example nothing changes for those players. If you come back to the game today and your sub has lapsed, then you hop on an archetype, check things out and if you like it renew, if you don't, don't. There's no problem there since the game will let you check things out for free at anytime. You don't need access to your FFs to make that determination.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And the employee bit was just a jest, I'm not implying that it is shameful or anything of that sort. What I meant was that you care so much about how much money PWI/Cryptic can squeeze out of the players wallets that you're overlooking the customer's perspective.
Thinking about the ongoing revenue needed to keep the game funded and running is more long term than trying to get free stuff.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hard to keep a game funded if players are driven away from the game. Unless the five people still playing a year from now are spending a lot of money.
There's no "likely" to be had. I'm one of those players that keeps quitting because I can't play all of my characters, whether I'm subbed or not. I have to pick between them month-by-month. When I first heard the announcement of subs being dropped I was ecstatic that I could just play my golds as much as I wanted without having to choose, that I could support the game and play it as it was meant to be played without having to maintain a sub. That I could play some characters that I haven't played in almost a decade once again, without feeling like crap that if I didn't have time to play them all I'd be screwed when my sub ended once again.
And then I read the announcement, saw that my characters would be neutered and was absolutely heartbroken.
Grandfathering in characters isn't "giving away stuff for free." It's convincing old players to actually play again. Locking them behind the sub is just as bad as neutering them by turning them into ATs. It's why the game's population has never grown since the F2P conversion.
Eh? How am I driving players away from the game with my opinions? Did you forget that we were talking about me and not PWE just now? :3c
The grandfathering thing where you give people access to all their Gold benefits for free. That last part there is the important part, make sure to read it twice.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And to be honest... You might have spent a lot of money into the game but who knows, maybe some Gold subs have spent even more than you. So if you really care about CO's future go buy stuff in the Z-store instead of advocating against any sort of recognition for people who've already injected several hundreds of dollars into the game.
They don't have to do that. They could release the Premium Pack on its own. They decided to announce it at the same time as the sub change as a sort of "We're taking away this, but here's this new thing!". They just failed to realize that we would focus way more on the former.
It's entirely possibly they'll just release the Premium Pack on its own, since they'll make lots of sales with it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So do I feel like a valued customer who deserves a little consideration? YUP! I think customers like me who've stuck with game through good and bad do deserve a token of appreciation. Do I think we'll be grandfathered in? Nope! I think PWI/Cryptic will weigh the cost of that and decided it's too much. What I'm hoping is that maybe they sweeten the deal a little. I'd be happy with allowing us to convert a limited number of our Gold FF's to Silver FF's. Which is what I'm betting they'll do.
So we'll see what happens. No matter what, there's going to be some disappointed players. But maybe CO will work hard to limit that number. Expect the worse, but hope for the best.
It may even bring old subscribers who didn't want to reactivate their subs back to the game. "But they're coming back for free it's usless". Nope it is not, with the new limitations (no stipend and no new character slots after lvl 40) they have a pretty good reason to spend money in the store even if their existing FF are unlocked, and last but not least populated severs are more attractive than empty ones and encourage players to stay. It's like a bait, but it's a fair one.
"Oh hey, that game I don't play anymore wants to give me a free thing... sucks that I don't play that game anymore! Oh well!"
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Or, y'know, they might come back and not want to sub, but still buy other things from the store because committing to a subscription is very different than making one-time purchases.
But here's the thing. Even if the vast majority don't stick around,they're still coming back temporarily. That's more than what's happening now and considerably more than would happen if their characters were forcibly converted to silvers. More players, even for a short while, is a good thing. You can't turn a player that isn't playing into a paying player. I don't understand why you can't grasp that simple concept.
But you apparently don't want anyone else to play the game. Just lifetime subs, they're clearly the only one that deserve such a privilege. Because they paid once a long time ago and never spent a dime since. That makes them deserving of plenty of dozens upon dozens of free character slots, for example. 'Cause they paid once, rather than spending over time, that makes them superior.
I wonder how many lifetimers left the game, never to return, while spending considerably less than a given subscriber?
Seriously, it's this ridiculous holier-than-thou, my-money-is-more-valuable-than-yours nonsense that ruined discussion about the initial conversion. Free players are valuable. Old subs are valuable. Hell, the only players that aren't actually that valuable are LTS ones, as they're the least likely to continue paying in the future.
"Players that spend 200-300 bucks at once on a game are not the type of players that spend a lot of money on a game."
Okay then o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nah, those players that chose to purchase a lifetime sub because it's a cheaper alternative to maintaining a subscription for several years, the ones that are given a monthly stipend and (up til now) as many character slots as they want without paying any extra, are totally the people that are most likely to continually pay for the game.
You know, those people that are complaining about not getting more freebie character slots. They're the big spenders, clearly.
(This is not me saying LTS's shouldn't continue getting character slots.)
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Because you're clearly a typical LTS, and a typical player. That's why CO is so successful, because it's absolutely flooded with players like you. It makes Fortnite look like a struggling indie game, with all those players like you.
I wonder what you'd be saying if your characters were forcibly converted, too.
Edit: I was harsh. I regret that. The sentiment remains, though. You're oblivious to how other people play and support the game and have no concept of sticker shock. I'm guessing you've never looked at a pricetag and thought it was too high for you. Majority of players aren't like that. Sticker shock is a thing, and it turns people away. Someone might be willing to spend $15 on purchases every month, but committing to $15 a month indefinitely, with consequences for cancelling, is too much for them. If it wasn't too much at one point, maybe it is now, but they'd still pay $10 every month. Or $5 one month, $15 the next. The point is if they have the option and aren't being punished for not staying committed to the same $15 payment, they are more likely to still support the game at their own pace.
If you still can't understand that, and still think catering to those players by letting them play the characters they spent plenty of money on in the past so that they may be inclined to spend more in the future is a bad idea and just "giving out freebies," then I'm honestly baffled, and can only assume you're trolling for the sake of it.
Really, it's best to start there and then work backwards.
I was actually making the point that any claim you make about "LTS players do this and this" is based on your own imagination and not any sort of facts. You gave your theory, and data to the contrary was immediately provided. Who's to say I'm not your typical LTS player? You? What data do you have that supports that claim? Your ideas are interesting sure, but musings often differ from reality.
You're baffled because somehow you've convinced yourself that I'm against letting players continue to play their characters. Let's test this idea of yours. Here we'll go back to an earlier post of mine in this very thread:
Oh look, what's that? A suggestion posted by me that would let those players have access to their characters forever! Well then, the availability of this information sure casts a critical eye on how you came to the idea that I'm not 100% for letting people continue to play their characters. I'm sure you'll eagerly retract that statement now instead of continuing an argument that is based around a false premise!
Actually it's best to do everything you can to keep yourself from going there so easily otherwise you end up making the kind of blunder that I just pointed out. Convincing yourself that people who have different ideas and opinions are just trolls may be comforting in the short term, but in the long term you run into issues.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Just as I thought. No concept of sticker shock or how other people pay for content in games, particularly the impact of committing to a subscription vs paying at their own pace. There's no point debating you, you're not even on the same planet. But please keep thinking of yourself as a typical player. You deserve your delusions.
Oh, in general, for sure. But I was talking about you specifically. I haven't convinced myself that you're just a troll because you have different ideas and opinions. I know you to be a troll because you troll all the time. That doesn't make you a bad person or invalidate your opinions when you're being serious, it's just the only honest assessment that anyone could make after being exposed to you for some 12K posts over several years.
Trust me, we haven't 'gone there so easily'. We've been led there by what you've shown of yourself, repeatedly, for years. If you don't want to be perceived as a troll, I dunno, try not doing so much trolling.
I see, so you have chosen to continue to believe that I have something against people retaining access to their characters. Welp, that's on you bud.
Also I never said I was a typical player. I asked you to provide information that shows otherwise. Which you didn't. Don't worry I don't actually expect you to show any information, because I know that you like everyone else here don't have that information. Kinda the point I was making, too bad it flew over your head.
You are attempting to support a theory with itself. Just thought I would point that out.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Most of us have been having (or at least attempting to have) somewhat reasonable conversations on opposing ends of this 'debate' regarding what we each hope will be done going forward. Clearly there has been a reason as to why more of us butt heads with you than with each other. You have made it a point to sarcastically and passive-aggressively jump onto almost every single thread just to (seemingly) troll. If it's not trolling, could we please start by finally offering some references to some of your claims as of late? The one you've been pushing hard with lately is the claim that the dev's have indeed spoken on the character limit in terms of how it effects the game and using that to insinuate we aren't considering the well-being of the game by disagreeing with you. I am just wondering where you've read this, because I've been digging a bit and so far I haven't been able to find any dev comments made to that effect. So please, I would be more than happy to be proven wrong here.
I am in the same boat as you here. I want proof. So please, for the sake of moving this conversation forward could you please practice what you preach and offer me some references to your recent assertions on other threads?
"more of us" lol
And yet you're forging ahead without it. Go get em tiger o3o/
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I mean, if anyone was needing any proof at this stage. Here you go...
Definitely not someone to be taken too seriously. At least not in terms of discussing the recent issues.
I generally spend zero dollars per month on Champs. Once or twice a year, I spend around $10.
I have no idea if this is typical behavior for a lifetime member. I just wanted to provide another example.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
If your vomit is this color you should really see a doctor immediately tbh
Its just abscence flavored puke.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You took two weeks off, I came back from exile, Parquet Courts released a kick-**** album, and Cryptic corporate lost their bloody minds. Clearly we’ve altered the balance of the universe, but I’m not sure how.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Yeah seems people are all the sky is falling and I am still trying to work out why. Some b*****d offspring of costumes, subscriptions and Cryptic messing up peoples accounts it seems.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I read a post here at the end of the thread, was going to reply with a quote on some specific comment, but it wouldn't let me, and when I refreshed the page the entire post was gone. *poof*
Anyway, just giving past subs access to whatever freeforms they might have made is not a solution. Not a good one.
I mean, someone subbed for a month and made 10 freeforms and now they get access to those freeforms forever?
If they could figure out some sort of scale it might work; Every six-twelve months subbed gets you access to your choice of one freeform or something like that.
But I do not think that the game could even support that sort of thing.
Anyway, whatever they do they need to give subscribers and former subscribers a method of accessing their existing freeforms.
That's not something that they should be working on adding later, it's a thing that they need to have ready the moment they stop subs.
And if it ends up being a Zen store item that people can buy to unlock those characters, then maybe at that point Cryptic can look at maybe giving a few free ones out to players based upon the time they spent as a subscriber.
I'm not in the mood for rewriting the whole thing with it's multiple paragraphs so ill try to sum it up, just stop arguing, this thread was made to thank the devs and those above them, for hearing us out not to start insulting eachother like a pack of wild dogs.
I said something along the lines of i know what it feels like to lose your characters and that many LTS players do indeed spend money, not just the one time 200-300$ and some of us spend a lot every month.
So please do not accuse us of spending money once on lifetime and then never spending any again.
There is things to buy like costumes, auras, costume and aura slots, catalysts,level up packs, travel powers, etc etc.
Also grandfathering subscriptions is a good idea. I believe loyal clients do deserve a token of appreciation even if the 'character slots were rented'
Or as spinny said (even though i may have some disagreements with him/her) allowing players who have ever subscribed already to resub anytime.
Isnt a too bad idea
Giving away the tokens to convert silver characters to freeform to gold subs is also a good idea too.
I just dont want people to be locked away from their characters and forced to pay a lot or make them archetypes.
Specially cuz ik how hard it can be to even save up for LTS and how long it can take for people in bad situations.
Let alone pay a token for each and every one of their existing characters that they have worked and spent lots of money and time on.
But again this post was made to thank the devs and those above for hearing the players out, for hearing out our feedback, they heard us, something not a lot of game companies do, lets be grateful for that.
The premium pack has been delayed or whatever and they are rethinking it so lets see what happens, and hope they can come up with a solution to make everyone happy.
So much for a sum up
If this gets deleted too im out
My super cool CC build and how to use it.