For some of the build such like Healer and CCer, it is difficult to solo SCR missions. So I suggest for making GCR / SCR able to deposit to hideout account bank. Thank you for reading and your consideration.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Dev seems to prefer making the game less alt friendly instead of more alt friendly. I'd love for all currency to be account wide instead of per character. Not going to hold my breath for it though.
this actually encourages alt play style, since if the team group need a required role you should swap to another character to improve the chances of the cosmic to succeed, what is bad about the actual system is that punishes people with a huge amount of characters and a desire to get gcr on all of them
Just another reptile lover, known in game as @nacito
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
this actually encourages alt play style, since if the team group need a required role you should swap to another character to improve the chances of the cosmic to succeed, what is bad about the actual system is that punishes people with a huge amount of characters and a desire to get gcr on all of them
I think that's the problem though. It makes too much sense. ^.~
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
This would also solve the "I've already got everything from the GCR store that this character needs, earning more GCR on them is pointless" issue.
no seriously, I've got a collective total of roughly 450 GCR.. only the last ~180 of which is actually usable due to being on a character that can make use of it due to gear requirements.. the rest are on toons that already have maxed out gear.. and thus is effectivally worthless.
Post edited by notyuu on
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
this actually encourages alt play style, since if the team group need a required role you should swap to another character to improve the chances of the cosmic to succeed, what is bad about the actual system is that punishes people with a huge amount of characters and a desire to get gcr on all of them
Er, no. If I want to gear up Toon A, then I can only play on Toon A for GCR. If I want to play Toon B instead, well, none of that GCR can be used on Toon A, which is the one I actually want to gear. Even if I just want to get a costume bit, playing multiple alts means I just have GCR all over the place and can't really buy anything since no one toon ever has enough.
On toons where I already have all the stuff I need for that toon, I use their GCR/SCR to buy BoE stuff from the vendor to give to other toons ^_^ there is still value in playing fully equipped toons ( other than the obvious value of those toons being fun to play ).
As for gearing up healers, that's easy, do group content. I mean, you made a group character... get a group. \o/
this actually encourages alt play style, since if the team group need a required role you should swap to another character to improve the chances of the cosmic to succeed, what is bad about the actual system is that punishes people with a huge amount of characters and a desire to get gcr on all of them
Er, no. If I want to gear up Toon A, then I can only play on Toon A for GCR. If I want to play Toon B instead, well, none of that GCR can be used on Toon A, which is the one I actually want to gear. Even if I just want to get a costume bit, playing multiple alts means I just have GCR all over the place and can't really buy anything since no one toon ever has enough.
wanna top gear a toon? you gotta play with that toon a lot (it took me 10 cosmic rotations and a couple of TAs to get a single piece) seems fair to me
Just another reptile lover, known in game as @nacito
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
this actually encourages alt play style, since if the team group need a required role you should swap to another character to improve the chances of the cosmic to succeed, what is bad about the actual system is that punishes people with a huge amount of characters and a desire to get gcr on all of them
Er, no. If I want to gear up Toon A, then I can only play on Toon A for GCR. If I want to play Toon B instead, well, none of that GCR can be used on Toon A, which is the one I actually want to gear. Even if I just want to get a costume bit, playing multiple alts means I just have GCR all over the place and can't really buy anything since no one toon ever has enough.
wanna top gear a toon? you gotta play with that toon a lot (it took me 10 cosmic rotations and a couple of TAs to get a single piece) seems fair to me
Yes, but let's not pretend it's alt friendly. It simply isn't.
But the devs feel it's good for the game, so it ain't changing.
wanna top gear a toon? you gotta play with that toon a lot (it took me 10 cosmic rotations and a couple of TAs to get a single piece) seems fair to me
It's a different playstyle choice. Nothing to do with being fair or not considering it still involves playing the game and doing the content. Preferring to play with a variety of characters isn't cheating.
Preferring to play with a variety of characters isn't cheating.
Nobody even suggested it was.
If you play with a variety of characters, great! So do I. When I was gearing up in Distinguished gear I didn't focus my characters one at a time on that, I just played whatever I wanted to ( or whatever people needed ). This didn't bother me because I know that the overall time per character was the same, which means that the overall time among all my characters wasn't changing due to the rewards being BoP. If it takes me 3 months to gear 3 characters when I'm playing them one at a time, then it will also take 3 months to gear 3 characters if I play them not one at a time and just switch around whenever I feel like it. Players with few characters and players with many characters are all equal under the golden sun of recognition.
All these ^_^s and ^.~s and trigger word slike honey though...
The reason we can't have GCR/SCR/and R in the account bank is because the game is trying to be more alt friendly in kind of an aggressive way. You have to make alts to smoothly play through the game, and you have to play alts to smoothly play through the game. You can have one character, or you can have many. It's not difficult to really gear a character (healers too actually) but, that's why all GCR/SCR granting content is team content. Which in an ironic twist, makes healers probably the most frequent to get GCR second to most DPS.
Well, if you're vocal enough. (As in, not just going to cosmics and actually asking people to do warzone, alert dailies, etc.) Also worth mentioning that healers have it way easier just being able to heal someone through said team content (excluding cosmics) in most cases.
Nonsense. absolutely nothing in the game requires you to make alts. Everything they've done almost over the past year has made it harder for alts to be geared up if anything.
People want to play the characters THEY FEEL LIKE PLAYING.
And there is nothing preventing them from doing so.
And yeah, there is nothing in the game that requires you to make alts: Exactly as it should be. ( Note that Mahoff said "You can have one character or you can have many" ).
I think what he was more referring to is that if you have alts of each role then you'll have a smoother time during end game than if you were to just make one character and refuse to play anything else. Maybe - just a guess there. The benefits of playing multiple characters still outweigh the benefits of playing one character, so the alters still have the advantage.
And sure, gearing all your characters takes longer the more characters you have... and since for you gearing up characters is the most important thing in the game then that's just something you'll have to live with. Look on the bright side, you'll have something to do in the game for a long long time... and wasn't "There's nothing to do" the chief complaint for a long time?
> @gradii said: > sergeantmahoff1 wrote: » > > All these ^_^s and ^.~s and trigger word slike honey though... > > The reason we can't have GCR/SCR/and R in the account bank is because the game is trying to be more alt friendly in kind of an aggressive way. You have to make alts to smoothly play through the game, and you have to play alts to smoothly play through the game. You can have one character, or you can have many. It's not difficult to really gear a character (healers too actually) but, that's why all GCR/SCR granting content is team content. Which in an ironic twist, makes healers probably the most frequent to get GCR second to most DPS. > > Well, if you're vocal enough. (As in, not just going to cosmics and actually asking people to do warzone, alert dailies, etc.) Also worth mentioning that healers have it way easier just being able to heal someone through said team content (excluding cosmics) in most cases. > > > > > Nonsense. absolutely nothing in the game requires you to make alts. Everything they've done almost over the past year has made it harder for alts to be geared up if anything. > > People want to play the characters THEY FEEL LIKE PLAYING.
Why would you try to gear up a character you don't feel like playing?
It's nice to hear all the workarounds/self-imposed accommodations for gcr/scr not being bankable, but it still doesn't need to be that way.
As I said long ago, the Devs could create a system that only allows one to bank the equivalent of the 3 cosmics and the daily each day. The Devs win because getting stuff is still at the glacial pace they desire. Players win because those who want to focus on gearing one character get to do so using a variety of their characters. It has the added benefit of encouraging/allowing players to bring whatever is needed at one of the cosmics without losing time getting the gcr/scr they need for the character they are currently focusing on.
It's nice to hear all the workarounds/self-imposed accommodations for gcr/scr not being bankable, but it still doesn't need to be that way.
As I said long ago, the Devs could create a system that only allows one to bank the equivalent of the 3 cosmics and the daily each day. The Devs win because getting stuff is still at the glacial pace they desire. Players win because those who want to focus on gearing one character get to do so using a variety of their characters. It has the added benefit of encouraging/allowing players to bring whatever is needed at one of the cosmics without losing time getting the gcr/scr they need for the character they are currently focusing on.
Nonsense. absolutely nothing in the game requires you to make alts. Everything they've done almost over the past year has made it harder for alts to be geared up if anything.
People want to play the characters THEY FEEL LIKE PLAYING.
And there is nothing preventing them from doing so.
And yeah, there is nothing in the game that requires you to make alts: Exactly as it should be. ( Note that Mahoff said "You can have one character or you can have many" ).
I think what he was more referring to is that if you have alts of each role then you'll have a smoother time during end game than if you were to just make one character and refuse to play anything else. Maybe - just a guess there. The benefits of playing multiple characters still outweigh the benefits of playing one character, so the alters still have the advantage.
And sure, gearing all your characters takes longer the more characters you have... and since for you gearing up characters is the most important thing in the game then that's just something you'll have to live with. Look on the bright side, you'll have something to do in the game for a long long time... and wasn't "There's nothing to do" the chief complaint for a long time?
I'm kinda glad you repeated the "You can have one character or you can have many". That's pretty much what I was saying. Alts just make life easier. You wouldn't believe how many times I switched to CC for Kiga cause I didn't want people to wait. This game is hilariously alt friendly if you're just willing to play.
Cosmics have a cooldown. You can't exactly alt hop and do the quest again like you can with Alert dailies. Normal folks aren't going to amass oodles of currency even with 50 alts. There just aren't enough hours in a day for most people.
The theory behind GCR being bound to character appears to be that if you want to give a character top end gear, you should actually play that character. I would prefer something like 'half the recognition has to be earned on the relevant character', but that's likely a hassle to implement.
Had I known Justice Gear was going to be such a pain in the bum to obtain later on, I would have farmed harder for alts who, for purposes of Endgame content, either do not fit nicely into roles which are required/desirable for endgame content.
I would really appreciate a system that allows us to move GCR/SCR from one character to another. But having spoken to Devs and making my own thread on having GCR and SCR in hideoutbanks a year or so ago...I know the answer is no.
However, when you look at the very very few sources of GCR (in particular) that we have...it is fair to say we are in the earlier stages of GCR sources.
I think the frustration with the content dubbed "GCR content" being the only content which can generate GCR is that in most cases they require teams or large groups of players which are very susceptible to sabotage, which drags out the experience for others unnecessarily.
Whilst Cosmics/TA/Warzone are very repetitive, the rewards from them are the only things keeping them attractive (aside from the feeling of working with a large team of heroes/characters) and it has been explained (IIRC) that the Development Team know that players generally consume new content much faster than new content can be created, so the option that has been chosen is to make GCR/SCR character bound and non shareable, so they can almost regulate how fast players consume content but also to make sure it has an element of attractiveness so players won't mind doing it again much.
It's not ideal for those who don't have a lot of time or live in 'awkward time zones' but at present there's little to be done unfortunately.
the rewards from them are the only things keeping them attractive
Well there's also the fact that they're fun. Grab alerts are technically just as repetitive, and the rewards from them aren't particularly meaningful to someone like me who literally has multiple characters sitting at 1000 SCR. AND YET I still get excited about doing some Grab alerts after all these years :'3
Ditto for TA and Warzone. Not so much Cosmics, but that's not due to being "repetitive", that's because I've never really enjoyed "raid content"
Why would you get GCR gear for a toon that you don't want to play GCR content? So that you can not play them some more?
Who are these "normal" people that don't have time but also play 50 alts?
It is strange how some people really really really care about getting that GCR gear despite the fact that we don't have a tiered system like other MMOs where getting the gear actually matters since it's required for the next tier of content. It also seems to usually be the self-described casuals who complain the most about being unable to get that GCR gear quickly. Very interesting effect... remove the tier system, and suddenly casuals care more about gear than the hardcores do?
the rewards from them are the only things keeping them attractive
Well there's also the fact that they're fun. Grab alerts are technically just as repetitive, and the rewards from them aren't particularly meaningful to someone like me who literally has multiple characters sitting at 1000 SCR. AND YET I still get excited about doing some Grab alerts after all these years :'3
Ditto for TA and Warzone. Not so much Cosmics, but that's not due to being "repetitive", that's because I've never really enjoyed "raid content"
Out of this response, I am surprised that you have said you have multiple characters sitting at 1k SCR. Do you tend to have a lot of time to farm stuff or is there some secret that you aren't sharing?
I say that because, whilst I realize it is completely possible, I found the grind to get 350 SCR and 500SCR respectively an absolute nightmare/pain.
Why would you get GCR gear for a toon that you don't want to play GCR content? So that you can not play them some more?
Who are these "normal" people that don't have time but also play 50 alts?
FFS. Way to miss the point. Or are you just trolling? Kinda hope it's the latter because at least it wouldn't make me sad that the human race is doomed to live out Idiocracy.
This thread is a basic request to support other play styles by allowing GCR to be banked per account. It still requires playing content. It still can't be abused by people with tons of alts due to the cooldown on Cosmics or pure stinginess of mission rewards.
The reasons why have been done to death by now. I have yet to see anyone put up a convincing argument why their playstyle choice should be superior to anyone else's. That is basically what all GCR request boil down to: Supporting more choice in playstyle.
FFS. Way to miss the point. Or are you just trolling? Kinda hope it's the latter because at least it wouldn't make me sad that the human race is doomed to live out Idiocracy.
This thread is a basic request to support other play styles by allowing GCR to be banked per account. It still requires playing content. It still can't be abused by people with tons of alts due to the cooldown on Cosmics or pure stinginess of mission rewards.
The reasons why have been done to death by now. I have yet to see anyone put up a convincing argument why their playstyle choice should be superior to anyone else's. That is basically what all GCR request boil down to: Supporting more choice in playstyle.
Mhm, this is more or less the same points I made on my thread on this but I guess the "fear" is that players will use one specific build to farm GCR and SCR in order to get the gear for their alts which is perceived to be required to participate in endgame content in order to participate in the endgame content with their alts....
FFS. Way to miss the point. Or are you just trolling? Kinda hope it's the latter because at least it wouldn't make me sad that the human race is doomed to live out Idiocracy.
Relax. Or go do something else since you seem to be so very sad.
This thread is a basic request to support other play styles by allowing GCR to be banked per account. It still requires playing content. It still can't be abused by people with tons of alts due to the cooldown on Cosmics or pure stinginess of mission rewards.
The reasons why have been done to death by now. I have yet to see anyone put up a convincing argument why their playstyle choice should be superior to anyone else's. That is basically what all GCR request boil down to: Supporting more choice in playstyle.
Not at all what I was responding to. Since you're the one who seems to be missing the point, let's spell it out for you.
Why would you get GCR gear for a toon that you don't want to play GCR content? So that you can not play them some more?
Why should I want to have a character well-geared before bringing them in? I mean, it's not like there are any DPS checks where the group would be better off if I brought someone who already had GCR gear, right?
Oh wait. There are. And that's not even getting into the issues where you're trying to gear up one character, but the group that formed this time needs someone of a different role...
Why should I want to have a character well-geared before bringing them in? I mean, it's not like there are any DPS checks where the group would be better off if I brought someone who already had GCR gear, right?
Oh wait. There are. And that's not even getting into the issues where you're trying to gear up one character, but the group that formed this time needs someone of a different role...
the difference between merc gear with rank 4 mods and justice/distinguished gear with rank 7 mods is around 500dps even less if u have bad build so gear doesn't matter much here also in every other mmo if u want to get ''the best'' gear in game you need to play the char you want that gear on idk why should be any different here
Why would you get GCR gear for a toon that you don't want to play GCR content? So that you can not play them some more?
Why should I want to have a character well-geared before bringing them in? I mean, it's not like there are any DPS checks where the group would be better off if I brought someone who already had GCR gear, right?
Oh wait. There are. And that's not even getting into the issues where you're trying to gear up one character, but the group that formed this time needs someone of a different role...
That's not really good justification for getting the reward before facing the trial though. Especially once you consider that the gear won't actually make a big difference ( has been proven via testing ). Basically, your character should be performing well without the gear so that you can have a greater chance at acquiring it.
Why would you get GCR gear for a toon that you don't want to play GCR content?
I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't think there's any way I can explain this without coming across as condescending, so here goes:
Do you honestly not know why people typically want to obtain better gear? I mean seriously, do you really think the only reason people want gear is so they can move up and do harder content? I'm sure you're smarter than that, so let me remind you why people really want to gain better gear in CO: It makes things easier. More convenient. More fun. It lets the player feel like they're reaching a meaningful end goal for their character in terms of numeric progression.
Even the cosmic farmers push for GCR gear to make their gameplay easier. I mean obviously, cosmic content isn't balanced around already having GCR gear, right? If it was, nobody would've been able to do it, right?
If someone wants GCR gear for a character they never plan to take into GCR content, that's fine. Maybe they enjoy being able to steamroll alerts as hard as possible. Or maybe (given the trend with events) they just want the best gear possible to minimize the difficulty of events that previously gave them trouble when they try to run them solo. Not everyone wants to feel like they have to team for everything. This isn't a 2000-era MMO.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
If someone wants GCR gear for a character they never plan to take into GCR content, that's fine. Maybe they enjoy being able to steamroll alerts as hard as possible. Or maybe (given the trend with events) they just want the best gear possible to minimize the difficulty of events that previously gave them trouble when they try to run them solo. Not everyone wants to feel like they have to team for everything. This isn't a 2000-era MMO.
Ok yeah. This is what I was getting at. To see if the reason for wanting this would line with anything the devs would want to enable.
Ok yeah. This is what I was getting at. To see if the reason for wanting this would line with anything the devs would want to enable.
If one of their goals is to make the game feel more inclusive to a larger number of playstyles, then it absolutely does.
That's not inclusive to more playstyles, it's inclusive to different playstyles. Making group content soloable includes people who want to solo and excludes people who want to team, so it's not a difference in variety (it might be a difference in number, though).
And here's the one very important point about why recognition rewards are bound to characters and are not an account-wide currency:
MMORPGs are built around rewards-vs-grinding and time-sink mechanics. It's in the MMO's publisher's and developer's best interests that as many players as possible stay around playing the game for as long as possible. The more time a player spends online in the game, the more opportunities there are for players to keep on paying for gold sub in the game or to purchase stuff at the Z store. This is nothing new when it comes to MMORPGs that at the end of the day are business products. You could scoff at this and dismiss it as money-grabbing corporate tactics, or you may not have any intention to pay for anything at all, but it is what it is.
It makes perfect sense why they don't let GCRs be freely transferred across toons on the same account when considering that. GCR as a reward is meant to be earned on an individual toon basis just like XP, questionite and other mission rewards are.
If one of their goals is to make the game feel more inclusive to a larger number of playstyles, then it absolutely does.
The game is already inclusive towards alters. Currently recognition is approximately equally inclusive towards those who like to play more characters and those who like to play less characters, but it slightly favors those who play more characters since having more characters still makes it possible to farm up more recognition ( and questonite ) per day than someone with less characters; the sheer number of sources that an individual character can access daily keeps this from being a big issue with SCR ( you'd have to have a lot of time on your hands to exhaust all sources of SCR on one character and then start up on another, tho I'm sure there are people with that kind of time), but with GCR it can become more noticeable since the sources there are fewer. People with more characters don't need even more special advantages. You say you want equal inclusiveness, but what you're actually doing is trying to give more privileges to people who are already privileged. If you really cared about equal inclusiveness you would be pointing out that someone who plays only one character can't get as much GCR per day as someone who plays multiple characters, and be trying to rectify that.
Also I'm not really seeing the rationale of not being able to transfer recognition points between toons being a factor in making people want to play alts less. There is practically nothing stopping you from making an alt if you want if you have a free slot, or playing an existing one if you really want to. If the reasoning is that it's because that the alt doesn't have access to SCR/GCR that a different toon has, then that comes off as completely arbitary.
If you're already an experienced veteran who has been spending significant gameplay time doing endgame content and earning SCR/GCR with one toon, then you should already be fully prepared and naturalized in earning it for another toon, assuming that your toon is properly built to do things like cosmics and meeting DPS checks for e.g.
If one of their goals is to make the game feel more inclusive to a larger number of playstyles, then it absolutely does.
The game is already inclusive towards alters. Currently recognition is approximately equally inclusive towards those who like to play more characters and those who like to play less characters, but it slightly favors those who play more characters since having more characters still makes it possible to farm up more recognition ( and questonite ) per day than someone with less characters; the sheer number of sources that an individual character can access daily keeps this from being a big issue with SCR ( you'd have to have a lot of time on your hands to exhaust all sources of SCR on one character and then start up on another, tho I'm sure there are people with that kind of time), but with GCR it can become more noticeable since the sources there are fewer. People with more characters don't need even more special advantages. You say you want equal inclusiveness, but what you're actually doing is trying to give more privileges to people who are already privileged. If you really cared about equal inclusiveness you would be pointing out that someone who plays only one character can't get as much GCR per day as someone who plays multiple characters, and be trying to rectify that.
Unfortunately, this assumes that people are willing to get through the dailies at ALL on ANY characters. Assuming I finally manage to get one of my characters through the QWZ intro missions, (and trust me, I've tried on my Tanks, my DPS, even my nigh-unkillable hybrid Infernal Supernatural), the odds are pretty good I'll only be able to get one run of dailies in during my limited gaming time. And probably 20-30 death/respawn cycles. That amounts to two GCR powers a year; I'm not even looking for the l33t endgame gear.
In the end, it comes down to Fun versus Time. If the QWZ was even "uninspiring", I would be willing to grind it to the level Spinny and the other adherents in this forum advocate, but as it is, I will focus my player time on other aspects of the game.
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Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Unfortunately, this assumes that people are willing to get through the dailies at ALL on ANY characters. Assuming I finally manage to get one of my characters through the QWZ intro missions, (and trust me, I've tried on my Tanks, my DPS, even my nigh-unkillable hybrid Infernal Supernatural), the odds are pretty good I'll only be able to get one run of dailies in during my limited gaming time. And probably 20-30 death/respawn cycles. That amounts to two GCR powers a year; I'm not even looking for the l33t endgame gear.
In the end, it comes down to Fun versus Time. If the QWZ was even "uninspiring", I would be willing to grind it to the level Spinny and the other adherents in this forum advocate, but as it is, I will focus my player time on other aspects of the game.
Well if you don't even want to DO the content in question, then bankable currency isn't even a factor. You can't bank something you don't have to begin with. And remember, QWZ open missions weren't even meant to be a source of GCR at all to begin with - they are actually SCR content, so it's entirely intended that you don't focus on them if your specific goal is GCR. They were initially not intended to give GCR at all, so it makes perfect sense that they will never be a good source of GCR. They are SCR content - if they're going to give larger amounts of GCR they would actually need to be buffed up to justify that.
That said, QWZ dailies aren't the only dailies that give SCR, there are plenty of others; that was kind of the point I was making by saying there's a bit of inflation with SCR sources. QWZ dailies are basically that extra bit of SCR you get if you're leet enough to face the QWZ ( or have the ability to ask someone to group up with you for it, rewards remain the same if you're in a party ).
Most games are moving towards more account bound currencies, while CO continues moving away from them. Is there any evidence to support this is actually helping?
"Most games are moving towards more account bound currencies" 1. Citation needed; I have a feeling you didn't actually do the research and see if it actually is most games. Seems like just another "the majority is doing this, so you should too!" attempt. 2. So what, when it comes to "number of characters per player" CO blows most other games out of the water... in fact, it blows practically all of them out of the water; I've never seen another MMO where someone has 100 characters, even my 21 is crazy compared to other mmos. When players have that kind of potential farming power there need to be controls to keep it in check. Currently some sources of SCR are way way easier and faster than others and with bound currency someone with a ton of characters could breeze through those easy quick sources on multiple characters to amass currency in large amounts much more quickly than is healthy for the game. By keeping the currency per-character it means that players have to approximately spend X amount of days per reward.
Players with many characters are still favored however because while they have to spend X days per reward, they can still be farming multiple rewards in parallel since they can still do those fast easy SCR sources on multiple characters. At the end of X days, they will get Y rewards, where Y = the number of characters they were using to farm. It's not a massive advantage, which is why nobody is calling for it to be removed ( for example via making it so that once you do a daily quest on one character it can't be done on any other character that day ) but it is still an advantage nonetheless that people with many characters have over those with few.
Alters are currently on top, there's no reason to raise them higher when they're already in a better position.
That's not inclusive to more playstyles, it's inclusive to different playstyles. Making group content soloable includes people who want to solo and excludes people who want to team, so it's not a difference in variety (it might be a difference in number, though).
Aside from people who never wanted to team in the first place, but did so anyway because the content practically required it, I don't see how it excludes people who want to team. If two people genuinely love to team for stuff, they still can. It just means that everyone who doesn't like to team up for mundane activities no longer feels like it's a requirement for getting anything done.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Aside from people who never wanted to team in the first place, but did so anyway because the content practically required it, I don't see how it excludes people who want to team.
The essence of team content is "requires teamwork". Content that requires teamwork by definition cannot be done solo.
Most games are moving towards more account bound currencies, while CO continues moving away from them. Is there any evidence to support this is actually helping?
"Most games are moving towards more account bound currencies" 1. Citation needed; I have a feeling you didn't actually do the research and see if it actually is most games. Seems like just another "the majority is doing this, so you should too!" attempt. 2. So what, when it comes to "number of characters per player" CO blows most other games out of the water... in fact, it blows practically all of them out of the water; I've never seen another MMO where someone has 100 characters, even my 21 is crazy compared to other mmos. When players have that kind of potential farming power there need to be controls to keep it in check. Currently some sources of SCR are way way easier and faster than others and with bound currency someone with a ton of characters could breeze through those easy quick sources on multiple characters to amass currency in large amounts much more quickly than is healthy for the game. By keeping the currency per-character it means that players have to approximately spend X amount of days per reward.
Players with many characters are still favored however because while they have to spend X days per reward, they can still be farming multiple rewards in parallel since they can still do those fast easy SCR sources on multiple characters. At the end of X days, they will get Y rewards, where Y = the number of characters they were using to farm. It's not a massive advantage, which is why nobody is calling for it to be removed ( for example via making it so that once you do a daily quest on one character it can't be done on any other character that day ) but it is still an advantage nonetheless that people with many characters have over those with few.
Alters are currently on top, there's no reason to raise them higher when they're already in a better position.
WoW comes to mind for 100 characters, I'm sure their are a few more but I'm not too sure. For certain, WoW definately does. It also has a crapton of servers though as well so
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
GCR as a reward is meant to be earned on an individual toon basis just like XP, questionite and other mission rewards are.
Do you honestly not know how easy it is to transfer questionite between characters?
Well I do honestly know, thanks for jumping to conclusions.
It doesn't defuse my point in the slightest about how questionite is supposed to be earned on an individual toon basis and how it isn't a account-wide shared currency, in the same manner recognition points are. Sure, you can take advantage of the questionite exchange to transfer questionite between toons, but it's not the same as using a hideout bank to transfer account-wide stuff from toon to toon.
"And here's the one very important point about why recognition rewards are bound to characters and are not an account-wide currency:
MMORPGs are built around rewards-vs-grinding and time-sink mechanics. It's in the MMO's publisher's and developer's best interests that as many players as possible stay around playing the game for as long as possible. The more time a player spends online in the game, the more opportunities there are for players to keep on paying for gold sub in the game or to purchase stuff at the Z store. This is nothing new when it comes to MMORPGs that at the end of the day are business products. You could scoff at this and dismiss it as money-grabbing corporate tactics, or you may not have any intention to pay for anything at all, but it is what it is.
It makes perfect sense why they don't let GCRs be freely transferred across toons on the same account when considering that. GCR as a reward is meant to be earned on an individual toon basis just like XP, questionite and other mission rewards are."
No, it doesn't. In Path of Exile nothing is character bound. In fact, none of the weapons and armor are bound in any way, not even if you wear them. There are only a few pieces of special currency that are account bound. One of the most popular leagues is the one with more generous rewards. People played longer and created more alts because it was so much easier to gear up additional characters. Perfect example of a game that makes it easy to gain currency and items for alts while still keeping people playing and growing.
The whole character bound thing encouraging people to stick around is crap.
Heirloom gear is a thing because people don't want to grind out things from scratch every time they make a new toon. CO is not the only game with Heirloom gear. Level up / bonus XP cash shop items are also a thing because, again, people don't want to do the earlier game for the umpteenth time. Respecs are a thing in many games so that players don't have to start over to try out different build ideas. You have plenty of games making it easier to roll alts or skip the process entirely.
GCR is the only thing you listed that is per toon. XP can be bought in the cash shop. Questionite can be traded. Mission Rewards are replaced by heirloom gear. Those are all thing that are the opposite of grind while still encouraging alts.
"It doesn't defuse my point in the slightest about how questionite is supposed to be earned on an individual toon basis and how it isn't a account-wide shared currency, in the same manner recognition points are."
100% incorrect. Questionite can be bought with Zen and is meant to be traded. The entire Q-To-Zen system is built around ability to trade. The earning per toon with a refinement cap is meant to prevent people from gaining questionite too quickly because it can be used to purchase cash shop items. Questionite IS an account wide currency that is controlled so that people will actually spend real money in the cash shop.
"Also I'm not really seeing the rationale of not being able to transfer recognition points between toons being a factor in making people want to play alts less."
My main character is specifically built to quickly gain currency. Another toon I roll up is not going to fit that criteria. It's faster to use my main that is already geared up with a specific build to get gear for my alts than it is to use my alts to get their own gear. Starting a currency grind on a new toon does not inspire me to bother creating it in the first place. It's also not just GCR, it's all of the other things that have also become character bound.
What makes more sense: Using my already geared toon to purchase a GCR costume piece for an alt, or using that brand new alt to gain that costume bit eventually at level 40? Yes, the costume pieces are account wide. That's the point. Having that account wide item I can use on an alt is why I can enjoy the toon's theme now instead of in 40 levels and a GCR grind later. Being able to share currency account wide is what makes alting more enjoyable.
It doesn't defuse my point in the slightest about how questionite is supposed to be earned on an individual toon basis and how it isn't a account-wide shared currency, in the same manner recognition points are. Sure, you can take advantage of the questionite exchange to transfer questionite between toons.
There's no "taking advantage" of anything by transferring Q to other toons using the exchange, it's simply working as intended........ otherwise I'm sure it would have been changed to not allow your other toons to take your Q balance from the exchange.
Unless of course you have actual knowledge that the devs didn't mean to implement it in that way?
It doesn't defuse my point in the slightest about how questionite is supposed to be earned on an individual toon basis and how it isn't a account-wide shared currency, in the same manner recognition points are. Sure, you can take advantage of the questionite exchange to transfer questionite between toons.
There's no "taking advantage" of anything by transferring Q to other toons using the exchange, it's simply working as intended........ otherwise I'm sure it would have been changed to not allow your other toons to take your Q balance from the exchange.
Unless of course you have actual knowledge that the devs didn't mean to implement it in that way?
It doesn't work in the quite the same way as placing globals and account-wide items in a hideout bank and transferring these things freely in any amount across any number of toons in the same account.
But okay, I'll relent and accept that since it can be done, "questionite" shouldn't be in my initial statement.
My main character is specifically built to quickly gain currency. Another toon I roll up is not going to fit that criteria. It's faster to use my main that is already geared up with a specific build to get gear for my alts than it is to use my alts to get their own gear. Starting a currency grind on a new toon does not inspire me to bother creating it in the first place. It's also not just GCR, it's all of the other things that have also become character bound.
What makes more sense: Using my already geared toon to purchase a GCR costume piece for an alt, or using that brand new alt to gain that costume bit eventually at level 40? Yes, the costume pieces are account wide. That's the point. Having that account wide item I can use on an alt is why I can enjoy the toon's theme now instead of in 40 levels and a GCR grind later. Being able to share currency account wide is what makes alting more enjoyable.
So basically, it boils down to "I don't want to be bothered doing the same boring grinding for another toon that I did for my first one."
Actually I can relate in some way. Any new toons I make these days I buy XP boosts to get them to level 35 or even 40. I'm pretty tired of the grind too. Heck, at times I just spend globals at the AH to get quick legion gear. I can alleviate the grind to some extent, but to the extent that I want to bypass endgame-specific content and earn endgame-specific rewards without doing said endgame with this new toon? Nah, that's reaching.
I'm pretty sure that the whole concept of wanting to create a new toon to enjoy playing a different kind of build, a toon with a different concept and look is the main criteria to wanting to create a new toon in the first place. People seem to do it all the time even with the knowledge that they'll have to grind for SCR/GCR like they did with earlier toons. Saying that not having access to account-wide SCR/GCR being one criteria in making a new toon just comes off as arbitary and a personal limitation.
And just to clarify, I'm not a die-hard supporter of recognition being individual toon rewards. If Cryptic one day decides to go ahead and make SCR/GCR account-wide rewards because it's a more effective way to sell the product, by all means I'm all for it. I'm just taking everything at face-level for what it is.
The essence of team content is "requires teamwork". Content that requires teamwork by definition cannot be done solo.
Right, but nothing stops a player from teaming up with a friend for even the most basic leveling quests. The only reason you'd likely have less people wanting to team up for "easier" content is because some of them never wanted to team up in the first place--they only did so because the game pretty much required them to begrudgingly work with other people to get the stuff done.
Having to team up to bring down massive bosses feels pretty good. On the other hand, requiring a team just to slog through daily quests does not.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Comments
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
no seriously, I've got a collective total of roughly 450 GCR.. only the last ~180 of which is actually usable due to being on a character that can make use of it due to gear requirements.. the rest are on toons that already have maxed out gear.. and thus is effectivally worthless.
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Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Er, no. If I want to gear up Toon A, then I can only play on Toon A for GCR. If I want to play Toon B instead, well, none of that GCR can be used on Toon A, which is the one I actually want to gear. Even if I just want to get a costume bit, playing multiple alts means I just have GCR all over the place and can't really buy anything since no one toon ever has enough.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
As for gearing up healers, that's easy, do group content. I mean, you made a group character... get a group. \o/
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wanna top gear a toon? you gotta play with that toon a lot (it took me 10 cosmic rotations and a couple of TAs to get a single piece) seems fair to me
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
wanna top gear a toon? you gotta play with that toon a lot (it took me 10 cosmic rotations and a couple of TAs to get a single piece) seems fair to me
Yes, but let's not pretend it's alt friendly. It simply isn't.
But the devs feel it's good for the game, so it ain't changing.
It's a different playstyle choice. Nothing to do with being fair or not considering it still involves playing the game and doing the content. Preferring to play with a variety of characters isn't cheating.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
If you play with a variety of characters, great! So do I. When I was gearing up in Distinguished gear I didn't focus my characters one at a time on that, I just played whatever I wanted to ( or whatever people needed ). This didn't bother me because I know that the overall time per character was the same, which means that the overall time among all my characters wasn't changing due to the rewards being BoP. If it takes me 3 months to gear 3 characters when I'm playing them one at a time, then it will also take 3 months to gear 3 characters if I play them not one at a time and just switch around whenever I feel like it. Players with few characters and players with many characters are all equal under the golden sun of recognition.
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The reason we can't have GCR/SCR/and R in the account bank is because the game is trying to be more alt friendly in kind of an aggressive way. You have to make alts to smoothly play through the game, and you have to play alts to smoothly play through the game. You can have one character, or you can have many. It's not difficult to really gear a character (healers too actually) but, that's why all GCR/SCR granting content is team content. Which in an ironic twist, makes healers probably the most frequent to get GCR second to most DPS.
Well, if you're vocal enough. (As in, not just going to cosmics and actually asking people to do warzone, alert dailies, etc.) Also worth mentioning that healers have it way easier just being able to heal someone through said team content (excluding cosmics) in most cases.
And yeah, there is nothing in the game that requires you to make alts: Exactly as it should be. ( Note that Mahoff said "You can have one character or you can have many" ).
I think what he was more referring to is that if you have alts of each role then you'll have a smoother time during end game than if you were to just make one character and refuse to play anything else. Maybe - just a guess there. The benefits of playing multiple characters still outweigh the benefits of playing one character, so the alters still have the advantage.
And sure, gearing all your characters takes longer the more characters you have... and since for you gearing up characters is the most important thing in the game then that's just something you'll have to live with. Look on the bright side, you'll have something to do in the game for a long long time... and wasn't "There's nothing to do" the chief complaint for a long time?
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> sergeantmahoff1 wrote: »
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> All these ^_^s and ^.~s and trigger word slike honey though...
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> The reason we can't have GCR/SCR/and R in the account bank is because the game is trying to be more alt friendly in kind of an aggressive way. You have to make alts to smoothly play through the game, and you have to play alts to smoothly play through the game. You can have one character, or you can have many. It's not difficult to really gear a character (healers too actually) but, that's why all GCR/SCR granting content is team content. Which in an ironic twist, makes healers probably the most frequent to get GCR second to most DPS.
>
> Well, if you're vocal enough. (As in, not just going to cosmics and actually asking people to do warzone, alert dailies, etc.) Also worth mentioning that healers have it way easier just being able to heal someone through said team content (excluding cosmics) in most cases.
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> Nonsense. absolutely nothing in the game requires you to make alts. Everything they've done almost over the past year has made it harder for alts to be geared up if anything.
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> People want to play the characters THEY FEEL LIKE PLAYING.
Why would you try to gear up a character you don't feel like playing?
As I said long ago, the Devs could create a system that only allows one to bank the equivalent of the 3 cosmics and the daily each day. The Devs win because getting stuff is still at the glacial pace they desire. Players win because those who want to focus on gearing one character get to do so using a variety of their characters. It has the added benefit of encouraging/allowing players to bring whatever is needed at one of the cosmics without losing time getting the gcr/scr they need for the character they are currently focusing on.
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Who are these "normal" people that don't have time but also play 50 alts?
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I would really appreciate a system that allows us to move GCR/SCR from one character to another. But having spoken to Devs and making my own thread on having GCR and SCR in hideoutbanks a year or so ago...I know the answer is no.
However, when you look at the very very few sources of GCR (in particular) that we have...it is fair to say we are in the earlier stages of GCR sources.
I think the frustration with the content dubbed "GCR content" being the only content which can generate GCR is that in most cases they require teams or large groups of players which are very susceptible to sabotage, which drags out the experience for others unnecessarily.
Whilst Cosmics/TA/Warzone are very repetitive, the rewards from them are the only things keeping them attractive (aside from the feeling of working with a large team of heroes/characters) and it has been explained (IIRC) that the Development Team know that players generally consume new content much faster than new content can be created, so the option that has been chosen is to make GCR/SCR character bound and non shareable, so they can almost regulate how fast players consume content but also to make sure it has an element of attractiveness so players won't mind doing it again much.
It's not ideal for those who don't have a lot of time or live in 'awkward time zones' but at present there's little to be done unfortunately.
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Ditto for TA and Warzone. Not so much Cosmics, but that's not due to being "repetitive", that's because I've never really enjoyed "raid content"
It is strange how some people really really really care about getting that GCR gear despite the fact that we don't have a tiered system like other MMOs where getting the gear actually matters since it's required for the next tier of content. It also seems to usually be the self-described casuals who complain the most about being unable to get that GCR gear quickly. Very interesting effect... remove the tier system, and suddenly casuals care more about gear than the hardcores do?
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I say that because, whilst I realize it is completely possible, I found the grind to get 350 SCR and 500SCR respectively an absolute nightmare/pain.
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FFS. Way to miss the point. Or are you just trolling? Kinda hope it's the latter because at least it wouldn't make me sad that the human race is doomed to live out Idiocracy.
This thread is a basic request to support other play styles by allowing GCR to be banked per account. It still requires playing content. It still can't be abused by people with tons of alts due to the cooldown on Cosmics or pure stinginess of mission rewards.
The reasons why have been done to death by now. I have yet to see anyone put up a convincing argument why their playstyle choice should be superior to anyone else's. That is basically what all GCR request boil down to: Supporting more choice in playstyle.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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Oh wait. There are. And that's not even getting into the issues where you're trying to gear up one character, but the group that formed this time needs someone of a different role...
Oh wait. There are. And that's not even getting into the issues where you're trying to gear up one character, but the group that formed this time needs someone of a different role...
the difference between merc gear with rank 4 mods and justice/distinguished gear with rank 7 mods is around 500dps even less if u have bad build so gear doesn't matter much here
also in every other mmo if u want to get ''the best'' gear in game you need to play the char you want that gear on idk why should be any different here
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Do you honestly not know why people typically want to obtain better gear? I mean seriously, do you really think the only reason people want gear is so they can move up and do harder content? I'm sure you're smarter than that, so let me remind you why people really want to gain better gear in CO: It makes things easier. More convenient. More fun. It lets the player feel like they're reaching a meaningful end goal for their character in terms of numeric progression.
Even the cosmic farmers push for GCR gear to make their gameplay easier. I mean obviously, cosmic content isn't balanced around already having GCR gear, right? If it was, nobody would've been able to do it, right?
If someone wants GCR gear for a character they never plan to take into GCR content, that's fine. Maybe they enjoy being able to steamroll alerts as hard as possible. Or maybe (given the trend with events) they just want the best gear possible to minimize the difficulty of events that previously gave them trouble when they try to run them solo. Not everyone wants to feel like they have to team for everything. This isn't a 2000-era MMO.
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MMORPGs are built around rewards-vs-grinding and time-sink mechanics. It's in the MMO's publisher's and developer's best interests that as many players as possible stay around playing the game for as long as possible. The more time a player spends online in the game, the more opportunities there are for players to keep on paying for gold sub in the game or to purchase stuff at the Z store. This is nothing new when it comes to MMORPGs that at the end of the day are business products. You could scoff at this and dismiss it as money-grabbing corporate tactics, or you may not have any intention to pay for anything at all, but it is what it is.
It makes perfect sense why they don't let GCRs be freely transferred across toons on the same account when considering that. GCR as a reward is meant to be earned on an individual toon basis just like XP, questionite and other mission rewards are.
than someone with less characters; the sheer number of sources that an individual character can access daily keeps this from being a big issue with SCR ( you'd have to have a lot of time on your hands to exhaust all sources of SCR on one character and then start up on another, tho I'm sure there are people with that kind of time), but with GCR it can become more noticeable since the sources there are fewer. People with more characters don't need even more special advantages. You say you want equal inclusiveness, but what you're actually doing is trying to give more privileges to people who are already privileged. If you really cared about equal inclusiveness you would be pointing out that someone who plays only one character can't get as much GCR per day as someone who plays multiple characters, and be trying to rectify that.
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If you're already an experienced veteran who has been spending significant gameplay time doing endgame content and earning SCR/GCR with one toon, then you should already be fully prepared and naturalized in earning it for another toon, assuming that your toon is properly built to do things like cosmics and meeting DPS checks for e.g.
In the end, it comes down to Fun versus Time. If the QWZ was even "uninspiring", I would be willing to grind it to the level Spinny and the other adherents in this forum advocate, but as it is, I will focus my player time on other aspects of the game.
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That said, QWZ dailies aren't the only dailies that give SCR, there are plenty of others; that was kind of the point I was making by saying there's a bit of inflation with SCR sources. QWZ dailies are basically that extra bit of SCR you get if you're leet enough to face the QWZ ( or have the ability to ask someone to group up with you for it, rewards remain the same if you're in a party ).
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Players with many characters are still favored however because while they have to spend X days per reward, they can still be farming multiple rewards in parallel since they can still do those fast easy SCR sources on multiple characters. At the end of X days, they will get Y rewards, where Y = the number of characters they were using to farm. It's not a massive advantage, which is why nobody is calling for it to be removed ( for example via making it so that once you do a daily quest on one character it can't be done on any other character that day ) but it is still an advantage nonetheless that people with many characters have over those with few.
Alters are currently on top, there's no reason to raise them higher when they're already in a better position.
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Do you honestly not know how easy it is to transfer questionite between characters?
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It doesn't defuse my point in the slightest about how questionite is supposed to be earned on an individual toon basis and how it isn't a account-wide shared currency, in the same manner recognition points are. Sure, you can take advantage of the questionite exchange to transfer questionite between toons, but it's not the same as using a hideout bank to transfer account-wide stuff from toon to toon.
Hyperbole. Reading comprehension failure. Facepalm initialized.
No, it doesn't. In Path of Exile nothing is character bound. In fact, none of the weapons and armor are bound in any way, not even if you wear them. There are only a few pieces of special currency that are account bound. One of the most popular leagues is the one with more generous rewards. People played longer and created more alts because it was so much easier to gear up additional characters. Perfect example of a game that makes it easy to gain currency and items for alts while still keeping people playing and growing.
The whole character bound thing encouraging people to stick around is crap.
Heirloom gear is a thing because people don't want to grind out things from scratch every time they make a new toon. CO is not the only game with Heirloom gear. Level up / bonus XP cash shop items are also a thing because, again, people don't want to do the earlier game for the umpteenth time. Respecs are a thing in many games so that players don't have to start over to try out different build ideas. You have plenty of games making it easier to roll alts or skip the process entirely.
GCR is the only thing you listed that is per toon. XP can be bought in the cash shop. Questionite can be traded. Mission Rewards are replaced by heirloom gear. Those are all thing that are the opposite of grind while still encouraging alts.
100% incorrect. Questionite can be bought with Zen and is meant to be traded. The entire Q-To-Zen system is built around ability to trade. The earning per toon with a refinement cap is meant to prevent people from gaining questionite too quickly because it can be used to purchase cash shop items. Questionite IS an account wide currency that is controlled so that people will actually spend real money in the cash shop.
My main character is specifically built to quickly gain currency. Another toon I roll up is not going to fit that criteria. It's faster to use my main that is already geared up with a specific build to get gear for my alts than it is to use my alts to get their own gear. Starting a currency grind on a new toon does not inspire me to bother creating it in the first place. It's also not just GCR, it's all of the other things that have also become character bound.
What makes more sense: Using my already geared toon to purchase a GCR costume piece for an alt, or using that brand new alt to gain that costume bit eventually at level 40? Yes, the costume pieces are account wide. That's the point. Having that account wide item I can use on an alt is why I can enjoy the toon's theme now instead of in 40 levels and a GCR grind later. Being able to share currency account wide is what makes alting more enjoyable.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Unless of course you have actual knowledge that the devs didn't mean to implement it in that way?
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But okay, I'll relent and accept that since it can be done, "questionite" shouldn't be in my initial statement. So basically, it boils down to "I don't want to be bothered doing the same boring grinding for another toon that I did for my first one."
Actually I can relate in some way. Any new toons I make these days I buy XP boosts to get them to level 35 or even 40. I'm pretty tired of the grind too. Heck, at times I just spend globals at the AH to get quick legion gear. I can alleviate the grind to some extent, but to the extent that I want to bypass endgame-specific content and earn endgame-specific rewards without doing said endgame with this new toon? Nah, that's reaching.
I'm pretty sure that the whole concept of wanting to create a new toon to enjoy playing a different kind of build, a toon with a different concept and look is the main criteria to wanting to create a new toon in the first place. People seem to do it all the time even with the knowledge that they'll have to grind for SCR/GCR like they did with earlier toons. Saying that not having access to account-wide SCR/GCR being one criteria in making a new toon just comes off as arbitary and a personal limitation.
And just to clarify, I'm not a die-hard supporter of recognition being individual toon rewards. If Cryptic one day decides to go ahead and make SCR/GCR account-wide rewards because it's a more effective way to sell the product, by all means I'm all for it. I'm just taking everything at face-level for what it is.
Having to team up to bring down massive bosses feels pretty good. On the other hand, requiring a team just to slog through daily quests does not.