Point being, not everyone who carries a sword in public is trying to kill other people. Some of us are actually using them to chop fruit for other people ^^
And yet you're still not allowed to carry a sword in public
Not really the same thing. Carrying an alt isn't going to kill other people. It isn't even going to inconvenience them really at all.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
It isn't even going to inconvenience them really at all.
It's going to inconvenience the people whose spot that alt is taking. And if you're arguing that it's ok for this type of gameplay to be the norm, then it's going to inconvenience all the people who don't want a bunch of bots on their team.
Like others in this thread, if I see one of those in an alert then I'll be filing a ticket.
It isn't even going to inconvenience them really at all.
It's going to inconvenience the people whose spot that alt is taking. And if you're arguing that it's ok for this type of gameplay to be the norm, then it's going to inconvenience all the people who don't want a bunch of bots on their team.
Like others in this thread, if I see one of those in an alert then I'll be filing a ticket.
Here we go again.
Spots In Alerts Are Not Finite
This whole concept of auto-follow alts taking up someone else's spot in alerts is a non-issue and frankly, a terribly weak argument. If there's 3 people in the queue, then I + my alt join, pushing the total to 5 so the alert pops, then another person joins and gets put in a new group, a narrow-minded person might say my alt took his/her spot. However, by the time you've angrily filed your ticket (which the GMs will probably just roll their eyes at and close after wasting the time needed to find out it wasn't really in violation of any rules) more people have filed into that person's group and it's since started as well.
So if you want to file tickets in protest over something trivial like this, go ahead. Just know that you're gumming up customer support's queue, wasting GM time that should be reserved for people with legit reasons for filing a ticket.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Why don't you just follow-bot 4 alts and carry them through a private queue then if you feel so strongly about how you're correct and doing nothing wrong? That way, no one has to waste anyone's anything and no one would even know you're doing it.
It isn't even going to inconvenience them really at all.
It's going to inconvenience the people whose spot that alt is taking. And if you're arguing that it's ok for this type of gameplay to be the norm, then it's going to inconvenience all the people who don't want a bunch of bots on their team.
Like others in this thread, if I see one of those in an alert then I'll be filing a ticket.
Here we go again.
Spots In Alerts Are Not Finite
This whole concept of auto-follow alts taking up someone else's spot in alerts is a non-issue and frankly, a terribly weak argument. If there's 3 people in the queue, then I + my alt join, pushing the total to 5 so the alert pops, then another person joins and gets put in a new group, a narrow-minded person might say my alt took his/her spot. However, by the time you've angrily filed your ticket (which the GMs will probably just roll their eyes at and close after wasting the time needed to find out it wasn't really in violation of any rules) more people have filed into that person's group and it's since started as well.
So if you want to file tickets in protest over something trivial like this, go ahead. Just know that you're gumming up customer support's queue, wasting GM time that should be reserved for people with legit reasons for filing a ticket.
Good grief don't take follow mules into alerts its rude. And I thought I was anti-social but this...this is something else :I
I feel trying to point out why this is a rude thing to do is pointless so I will let Catbug take over.
Why don't you just follow-bot 4 alts and carry them through a private queue then if you feel so strongly about how you're correct and doing nothing wrong? That way, no one has to waste anyone's anything and no one would even know you're doing it.
This is actually a brilliant suggestion.
Once again there was never any consensus from the start in a PUG that says it's okay for anyone to hamfist their follow-bot into the group. It's nothing more than being self-centered by constantly claiming that it's a "non-issue" while using a toon who can solo alerts as a convenient excuse. Like already mentioned you're not solo'ing the alert when you're in a PUG.
So to any follow-botters; Stop being a selfish **** and actually play that follow-bot toon like you're actually supposed to so that it properly earns its rewards, instead of using your main as a proxy. And no, the whole "I'm too lazy to bother grinding alts one at a time" excuse doesn't fly. Using some means of overriding set restrictions within a game system to do with rewards-vs-effort is exploitation. There are no two ways about it.
Half empty vs half full. Late at night when queues are slow and you're in a queue stuck at only 3 people, if I entered alone, we'd be stuck at 4, waiting even longer until either it popped or people dropped out. Meanwhile, if I enter on both my main and a follow alt, that pushes the count straight to 5 and the queue pops. To claim that it's "hogging player spots" implies that things like a day at the mall are limited-edition and will get removed from the game forever after X runs have been completed.
No, alert spots are not finite, but you've made the observation earlier on that active players queuing up for alerts are more finite at slower times of the day. Using your scenario where you bumped the total 3 people waiting on a queue to 5 with you and your follow-bot, where does that leave the legitimate player who could've use the spot that your follow-bot so nicely took up? That's right; being stuck on a queue waiting on players; the same kind of situation you claim you're being so helpful in rectifying, according to your anecdote anyway. Seems like you're not really being "altriustic" as you think you are.
If there's 3 people in the queue, then I + my alt join, pushing the total to 5 so the alert pops, then another person joins and gets put in a new group, a narrow-minded person might say my alt took his/her spot.
A narrow minded person might imagine that what's being discussed is just about them and their alt-bot. If there's one actual player in the queue and there's let's say not 1 but oh let's go totally crazy and say 2 more entitled feeling alt-botters with them. So now 2/5 characters in there are not actual players......do you imagine that the person who is not botting wants to be on that team?
Just know that you're gumming up customer support's queue, wasting GM time that should be reserved for people with legit reasons for filing a ticket.
As you stated, you don't even know if the reasons are legit or not. Asking staffers to chime in doesn't exactly reek of confidence the same way that this quote does.
Once they see the tickets they can decide for themselves how legit they are.
Aesica hasn't been banned (or warned) about this behavior even though this thread has been going on for close on 2 weeks now. CO has spoken loud and clear through their inaction. This is obviously considered acceptable behavior or they would have done something about Aesica by now.
Aesica hasn't been banned (or warned) about this behavior even though this thread has been going on for close on 2 weeks now. CO has spoken loud and clear through their inaction. This is obviously considered acceptable behavior or they would have done something about Aesica by now.
Anyone who uses follow mules to block other people doing alerts is in the wrong and is breaking TOS by stopping players doing content. Got to ask whats your real reason for defending these actions?
From the TOS:
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
That first bit "impede or disrupt the service of the normal flow of game play" is my favorite as using a follow mule and preventing another player joining an alert breaks this.
The whole of l. pretty much covers follow mule also dat "design flaws" bit.
No what it shows is Navi is still very slow at his job. It took him best part of a year to deal with well lets call him "Case Zero". Trust me Navi will eventually get round to people who follow mule in alerts.
Look when a bunch of players that normally don't agree on anything are saying WTF then well WTF U_U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That all may be true, but if CO does nothing about it right now that just continues to fuel speculation here aboutthe interpretation of their ToS AFAIK case zero may have been banned for some other reason, with the bot use not the primary reason, but just a convenient extra reason. If I were the CO people reading this thread and understood that this practice was a clear and flagrant violation of the ToS I'd be sure that whoever the GM is knew about it right away and acted on it quickly to send a clear and decisive message to the community. If this is against the ToS there is absolutely no reason to let this thread drag on when the issue could be resolved today one way or the other. Any other action/inaction by CO continues to send a mixed message. I mean, how long does it take Kaiserin to send an email to the GM saying this has to be dealt with?
Since when has a GM ever responded on forum thread, other than CMs that have in the past but aren't around any longer? Support ticket responses don't exactly go into the forums either.
GM or no GM, it's still pretty scummy behavior. It's not the kind of thing I want seeing happening more often in alerts with the negative effects it brings, especially when it spills from the regular 3 alert types to the more challenging ones. As far as I'm concerned whoever openly declares that they're entitled to doing it deserves to be dealt with for promoting such behavior, intentionally or otherwise.
That all may be true, but if CO does nothing about it right now that just continues to fuel speculation here aboutthe interpretation of their ToS AFAIK case zero may have been banned for some other reason, with the bot use not the primary reason, but just a convenient extra reason. If I were the CO people reading this thread and understood that this practice was a clear and flagrant violation of the ToS I'd be sure that whoever the GM is knew about it right away and acted on it quickly to send a clear and decisive message to the community. If this is against the ToS there is absolutely no reason to let this thread drag on when the issue could be resolved today one way or the other. Any other action/inaction by CO continues to send a mixed message. I mean, how long does it take Kaiserin to send an email to the GM saying this has to be dealt with?
And the reason the GM is lazy as fook is the prefect reason to keep this thread going as long as it takes.
If you don't like seeing people replying to threads try avoiding forums. Good grief U_U
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I think you misunderstand me. I'm being enormously entertained by this thread because it is the sort of debate, so far based only on player interpretations of ToS, what happens in other games, and personal feelings on the matter, that could easily be settled almost in an instant, but isn't. Kaiserin, or some other dev, could come on and say that this behavior is not allowed and that a GM will "soon" be taking appropriate action. That nothing official, one way or the other is being said (irrespective of a GM actually doing something) is interesting to me. Maybe Aesica's silence so far today means that she has been banned, for all I know.
Anyone who uses follow mules to block other people doing alerts is in the wrong and is breaking TOS by stopping players doing content. Got to ask whats your real reason for defending these actions?
That's not exactly preventing anyone from doing it. It's maybe making them wait a bit longer for another alert to pop, but that's about it.
Nope. But it still isn't breaking the rules by denying someone from playing content.
By denying someone a legitimate spot in said content when a player decides to barge in their energy-building spamming follow-bot into the alert?
Yeah, I guess that follow-bot gets priority and rightfully earns its rewards like any other player so the denial is okay. No wait, of course it's not, because its player is an exploiting ****.
Why don't you just follow-bot 4 alts and carry them through a private queue then if you feel so strongly about how you're correct and doing nothing wrong? That way, no one has to waste anyone's anything and no one would even know you're doing it.
I'd actually do this if my my 9 year old computer could handle more than 3 clients. It can only handle 2 on minimum settings without a performance drop. 3 slows it down slightly and 4 is where things get unpleasant. Maybe when I upgrade this year, I'll do exactly this. I'm totally okay with getting the entire payout of ~18.5g for each smash.
Follow-bots are gateway exploits. In 95% of cases, they lead to the using of hardcore exploits, bots and hacking.
Not really. Not even close, actually. Multiclienting is something that's done in a lot of games. So is having a strong character powerlevel a weaker one. This is just putting those two elements together, and it's hardly new or anywhere near an exploit. I still have to tell the lowbie to follow the 40. I still need to make the 40 attack things. I still need to rez the lowbie when it dies. I still need to make both go into doors and interact with objects. I still have to be present at the computer to make any of this stuff happen.
No the justification of "a energy builder spamming bot joining the queue as being helpful" is a terribly weak argument.
Actually, I started doing it because, when I join alerts on a crappy lowbie, I'm contributing basically nothing as it is because this game scales levels extremely poorly. After being in enough grabs that disbanded due to teams of lowbie squishies giving up after wiping repeatedly on trash, and being in enough smashes where the timer run out, I figured I'd use the same trick I used during the nightmare invasion to make those dailies actually doable on squishy alts--I'd bring along a strong character that can steamroll everything.
A narrow minded person might imagine that what's being discussed is just about them and their alt-bot. If there's one actual player in the queue and there's let's say not 1 but oh let's go totally crazy and say 2 more entitled feeling alt-botters with them. So now 2/5 characters in there are not actual players......do you imagine that the person who is not botting wants to be on that team?
I've been on a few teams like that in smash alerts. I've even been on a team where my 40 + someone else's mid-level gun user were only ones doing anything. I doubt anyone really cares as long as the alert finishes successfully and everyone gets their resources.
All this nonsense about "stolen spots" and "stolen drops" (it's a grab/smash/burst, rofl. everybody gets the reward at the end) is almost comical.
Once they see the tickets they can decide for themselves how legit they are.
That's like saying I should file tickets every time somebody says something mean to me, steals my kills while questing, kills me with their OV after I purposely attacked it, or whatever. Of course they can decide if those are legit reasons or not once they read the ticket, but sending in trivial tickets still wastes everyone's time and gums up the ticket process.
- - -
Look, I get it. Somebody (who isn't me) was using multiclienting abusively in a way that pissed a bunch of people off, griefed people, or whatever. I agree that abusive actions should be dealt with because this person or people were ruining everyone else's game experience, but is the issue "multiclienting" or "some guy being an intentional troll?" If me and a bunch of friends make characters with Palliate + Absolve and use it on tanks fighting cosmics, what's the problem here? Do we remove Absolve's threat wipe from the game because it's clearly being used abusively? Or is it better to deal with the people abusing it?
With Red Winter, I've been queuing characters individually, and that includes several lowbie 10-15s for the sake of getting more event tokens. Characters in that level range basically play like "energy builder for several seconds, followed by 1-2 blasts or other weak attack, repeat." Since they don't contribute really anything useful (not the player's fault, it's the scaling) all they can really do is follow around the big guys and use those things when/if able. But I guess it's somehow "better" to be manually pushing the buttons than using follow + a toggled energy builder along with a solid character, capable of both putting out and taking damage?
I don't get the potato logic people have going on here.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Lol. All you people complaining about "OMG, the follow bot stole someone's place!" Hm. Let's think about this. Where would that hypothetical fourth person be if the follow bot hadn't queued? Stuck waiting with three other people and no alert. Gee, looks like that person queuing up with a group of two and multiboxing actually helped three people get their queue faster! (And done faster, too.)
Now, I absolutely don't agree with follow-botting when you aren't bringing along a character that can pull the extra weight. But if you do? Nobody is hurt by it, some people are helped by it, everything works out. Not a problem.
By denying someone a legitimate spot in said content when a player decides to barge in their energy-building spamming follow-bot into the alert?
Yeah, I guess that follow-bot gets priority and rightfully earns its rewards like any other player so the denial is okay. No wait, of course it's not, because its player is an exploiting ****.
I guess I interpret the rule differently. Denying someone from playing content, to me, is making it so that no matter what they try to do, they can't get into the alert. Like, let's say if there was only ever one Grab instance, and someone found a way to loiter around in that Grab after it was finished. So this guy thinks it's funny that other people can't get in because he's in there, so he stays there for a month, effectively denying access to Grabs for that entire time. That's much different than making someone wait.
Something kinda similar happened in Neverwinter. If you were in the main city, went to one of the few doors that let you exit the city to another portion, hit F to interact with the door, and stayed on the map screen, it prevented anyone else from using that door. Doing that to purposely block people from leaving the city is the kind of thing this rule is about.
Also, I don't think that this behavior is at all okay. I wouldn't do it out of courtesy for others. I'm not trying to convince anyone that people should do this and that it's okay. I'm saying what's happening is not technically against the rules.
Actually, I started doing it because, when I join alerts on a crappy lowbie, I'm contributing basically nothing as it is because this game scales levels extremely poorly. After being in enough grabs that disbanded due to teams of lowbie squishies giving up after wiping repeatedly on trash, and being in enough smashes where the timer run out, I figured I'd use the same trick I used during the nightmare invasion to make those dailies actually doable on squishy alts--I'd bring along a strong character that can steamroll everything.
You're still talking about yourself. And no one cares about your specific circumstances or life story. The question at hand is about follow botting in general. You want to list all of your possible excuses so you can feel better about yourself? Ok.
But that doesn't make follow-botting ok or a desired state of gameplay for those who have to put up with it.
I've been on a few teams like that in smash alerts. I've even been on a team where my 40 + someone else's mid-level gun user were only ones doing anything. I doubt anyone really cares as long as the alert finishes successfully and everyone gets their resources.
What makes you doubt that *anyone* cares? There are plenty of people who have expressed their care right here in this thread. You can stop doubting now.
That's like saying I should file tickets every time somebody says something mean to me, steals my kills while questing, kills me with their OV after I purposely attacked it, or whatever.
No it's not like saying any of those things. You yourself called it a "gray" area and wanted confirmation from the devs that it was OK to do. None of those things require that and none of them have produced a response nearly as vehement as what you've observed among the people responding here.
I don't get the potato logic people have going on here.
And you won't if you don't ever consider the possibility that you are in the wrong. Because what people are worried about is not your particular bots with your arbitrarily self-imposed rules. What people are worried about is playing with a bunch of afk bots....and not wanting that kind of gameplay. Get over yourself.
Lol. All you people complaining about "OMG, the follow bot stole someone's place!" Hm. Let's think about this. Where would that hypothetical fourth person be if the follow bot hadn't queued? Stuck waiting with three other people and no alert. Gee, looks like that person queuing up with a group of two and multiboxing actually helped three people get their queue faster! (And done faster, too.)
Except the follow bot isn't queing by itself. If there are 5 people online at a slow time, and one of those players is using a follow bot, then 1 person will always be excluded from the alerts. The "slow time" argument goes both ways.
The "not enough players" situation can be solved by letting the alert start with less than 5 players after a certain amount of time. The "someone brought their bot" problem can only be solved by people not bringing their bots.
And you won't if you don't ever consider the possibility that you are in the wrong. Because what people are worried about is not your particular bots with your arbitrarily self-imposed rules. What people are worried about is playing with a bunch of afk bots....and not wanting that kind of gameplay.
That's the great part about forming your own teams with guildmates, friends, or even random people in the channel. You can remove people who are abusive, or even those who offend you in some way. In a game where you have to play with all different types of players, maybe it's people like you who need to...
...and be more tolerant of others. We're talking about scrubby alerts, FFS. Do you really pay attention to or care about what other people are doing in a random grab alert? I highly doubt it. Seeing as I suspect you're a high-geared endgame player, they almost always race ahead of everyone else, blow everything to kingdom come including the boss, and then bail right as credit is awarded but before the final cutscene.
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
Is hostile towards new players.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
Is hostile towards new players.
Not sure how that's hostile toward new players, but sure. O.o
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
At least the "scrubs" abide by what the system has intended for them to do; actually play the alert, earn their alert reward through participation and not resort to cheap, exploitative methods to gain more rewards. They're a bigger deal than your exploitive follow bots.
Yeah the ones that you would consistently bring to grab alerts, level them up way beyond 10 and still think it's okay to put them on auto-follow auto-eb mode. Honestly if you think that's okay on any level and somehow think it's a more valid method of gameplay than that of the lowbies you've just charmingly insulted, get the **** over yourself.
Follow-bots are gateway exploits. In 95% of cases, they lead to the using of hardcore exploits, bots and hacking.
Not really. Not even close, actually. Multiclienting is something that's done in a lot of games. So is having a strong character powerlevel a weaker one. This is just putting those two elements together, and it's hardly new or anywhere near an exploit. I still have to tell the lowbie to follow the 40. I still need to make the 40 attack things. I still need to rez the lowbie when it dies. I still need to make both go into doors and interact with objects. I still have to be present at the computer to make any of this stuff happen.
Wow, someone is so intent on justifying themselves, they completely missed the fact that it was a joke.
but yeah, follow-botting is still unacceptable in any game I've played.
We can all fly as high as the dreams we dare to live. Unless we are a chicken.
Wow, someone is so intent on justifying themselves, they completely missed the fact that it was a joke.
No, it's more like Poe's Law happened. Given the fervor and zealotry running rampant in this thread, coupled with the fact that I don't know you, it's an easy mistake to make.
Oh, is Aesica becoming an elitist now? How amusing.
Not really. I'm not even close to an elitist actually, but feel free to make up whatever you want. That seems to be your thing. Anyway, I guess it just goes to show that, when arguing with certain types of people, you have to be very careful what you say and how you word things because the capacity for ad hominem is very real.
- - -
As for "the newbie names" they really were really just meant to convey a feeling of 4 low level, possibly inexperienced players. It's pretty amusing (and telling) how so many of you fixated on that so intensely. Despite them being hypothetical people who do not actually exist.
Oh well, carry on. Maybe I'll run into some of you ingame--feel free to say hi to me and/or my autofollow alts.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Follow-bots are gateway exploits. In 95% of cases, they lead to the using of hardcore exploits, bots and hacking.
How someone could miss that this was a joke... astounding.
How can peoples still be going on about this?
People who are ok with using them, will and those who aren't, won't.
Nothing anyone says here , will change that.
In a game where you have to play with all different types of players, maybe it's people like you who need to....Get over yourself...and be more tolerant of others.
I do play with all types of *actual players* and am totally fine with all of the different people you labeled in a derogatory way. What I will not be tolerant of is playing with bots. But this not about what me or what I need to do. There are a ton of players in this thread who totally think that botting is a d**** move. And multiple people have stated that they will be filing tickets as well.
We're talking about scrubby alerts, FFS. Do you really pay attention to or care about what other people are doing in a random grab alert?
No, you're the one talking about scrubby alerts and random rules that you used to justify doing something that most people here feel is wrong. The much more important question is what happens if this spreads to more of the game?
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
It's big deal to me that I play with actual people regardless of their power or skill level. If you label them that way then you make them sound pretty bad by default, which says a lot about why you think it'd be ok to replace them with your bot.
But again, it's pretty clear what almost everyone here thinks. Risk the tickets if you wish.
^ Given your absurd knee-jerk reaction to what I admit was a poor choice of names for hypothetical players who don't actually freaking exist, there's really not much more to say about this, except for maybe this:
The much more important question is what happens if this spreads to more of the game?
What will it spread to? High endgame content? The stuff most people seem to manually build groups for these days? Just kick the auto-follower and move on. The only thing I could even see it being a problem for is cosmics, but that can be blamed on the following design decisions:
1) Smaller-than-normal zone limits were imposed, making the presence of too many people not currently engaged in the fight a hindrance. Note that this problem can be caused by people who aren't EB-spamming but are too weak to contribute and just came along for a carry, or even by too many zone questers. (Not that anyone quests really anymore, but yeah, the possibility exists)
2) The fact that the cosmics are world bosses rather than instanced, large-group "raid" bosses takes away the ability to kick non-performers. Being unable to remove problem players also extends to trolls etc as well.
Not sure why I bothered to say any of those. You seem pretty much beyond reason.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Comments
Like others in this thread, if I see one of those in an alert then I'll be filing a ticket.
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Spots
In
Alerts
Are
Not
Finite
This whole concept of auto-follow alts taking up someone else's spot in alerts is a non-issue and frankly, a terribly weak argument. If there's 3 people in the queue, then I + my alt join, pushing the total to 5 so the alert pops, then another person joins and gets put in a new group, a narrow-minded person might say my alt took his/her spot. However, by the time you've angrily filed your ticket (which the GMs will probably just roll their eyes at and close after wasting the time needed to find out it wasn't really in violation of any rules) more people have filed into that person's group and it's since started as well.
So if you want to file tickets in protest over something trivial like this, go ahead. Just know that you're gumming up customer support's queue, wasting GM time that should be reserved for people with legit reasons for filing a ticket.
Snark never dies.
I feel trying to point out why this is a rude thing to do is pointless so I will let Catbug take over.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Once again there was never any consensus from the start in a PUG that says it's okay for anyone to hamfist their follow-bot into the group. It's nothing more than being self-centered by constantly claiming that it's a "non-issue" while using a toon who can solo alerts as a convenient excuse. Like already mentioned you're not solo'ing the alert when you're in a PUG.
So to any follow-botters; Stop being a selfish **** and actually play that follow-bot toon like you're actually supposed to so that it properly earns its rewards, instead of using your main as a proxy. And no, the whole "I'm too lazy to bother grinding alts one at a time" excuse doesn't fly. Using some means of overriding set restrictions within a game system to do with rewards-vs-effort is exploitation. There are no two ways about it. No, alert spots are not finite, but you've made the observation earlier on that active players queuing up for alerts are more finite at slower times of the day. Using your scenario where you bumped the total 3 people waiting on a queue to 5 with you and your follow-bot, where does that leave the legitimate player who could've use the spot that your follow-bot so nicely took up? That's right; being stuck on a queue waiting on players; the same kind of situation you claim you're being so helpful in rectifying, according to your anecdote anyway. Seems like you're not really being "altriustic" as you think you are.
Once they see the tickets they can decide for themselves how legit they are.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
From the TOS:
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
That first bit "impede or disrupt the service of the normal flow of game play" is my favorite as using a follow mule and preventing another player joining an alert breaks this.
The whole of l. pretty much covers follow mule also dat "design flaws" bit.
No what it shows is Navi is still very slow at his job. It took him best part of a year to deal with well lets call him "Case Zero". Trust me Navi will eventually get round to people who follow mule in alerts.
Look when a bunch of players that normally don't agree on anything are saying WTF then well WTF U_U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
GM or no GM, it's still pretty scummy behavior. It's not the kind of thing I want seeing happening more often in alerts with the negative effects it brings, especially when it spills from the regular 3 alert types to the more challenging ones. As far as I'm concerned whoever openly declares that they're entitled to doing it deserves to be dealt with for promoting such behavior, intentionally or otherwise.
If you don't like seeing people replying to threads try avoiding forums. Good grief U_U
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Unless we are a chicken.
Yeah, I guess that follow-bot gets priority and rightfully earns its rewards like any other player so the denial is okay. No wait, of course it's not, because its player is an exploiting ****.
All this nonsense about "stolen spots" and "stolen drops" (it's a grab/smash/burst, rofl. everybody gets the reward at the end) is almost comical. Do whatever helps you feel better about yourself. Just know that you're wasting customer support's time and your own. That's like saying I should file tickets every time somebody says something mean to me, steals my kills while questing, kills me with their OV after I purposely attacked it, or whatever. Of course they can decide if those are legit reasons or not once they read the ticket, but sending in trivial tickets still wastes everyone's time and gums up the ticket process.
- - -
Look, I get it. Somebody (who isn't me) was using multiclienting abusively in a way that pissed a bunch of people off, griefed people, or whatever. I agree that abusive actions should be dealt with because this person or people were ruining everyone else's game experience, but is the issue "multiclienting" or "some guy being an intentional troll?" If me and a bunch of friends make characters with Palliate + Absolve and use it on tanks fighting cosmics, what's the problem here? Do we remove Absolve's threat wipe from the game because it's clearly being used abusively? Or is it better to deal with the people abusing it?
With Red Winter, I've been queuing characters individually, and that includes several lowbie 10-15s for the sake of getting more event tokens. Characters in that level range basically play like "energy builder for several seconds, followed by 1-2 blasts or other weak attack, repeat." Since they don't contribute really anything useful (not the player's fault, it's the scaling) all they can really do is follow around the big guys and use those things when/if able. But I guess it's somehow "better" to be manually pushing the buttons than using follow + a toggled energy builder along with a solid character, capable of both putting out and taking damage?
I don't get the potato logic people have going on here.
Now, I absolutely don't agree with follow-botting when you aren't bringing along a character that can pull the extra weight. But if you do? Nobody is hurt by it, some people are helped by it, everything works out. Not a problem.
Something kinda similar happened in Neverwinter. If you were in the main city, went to one of the few doors that let you exit the city to another portion, hit F to interact with the door, and stayed on the map screen, it prevented anyone else from using that door. Doing that to purposely block people from leaving the city is the kind of thing this rule is about.
Also, I don't think that this behavior is at all okay. I wouldn't do it out of courtesy for others. I'm not trying to convince anyone that people should do this and that it's okay. I'm saying what's happening is not technically against the rules.
But that doesn't make follow-botting ok or a desired state of gameplay for those who have to put up with it. What makes you doubt that *anyone* cares? There are plenty of people who have expressed their care right here in this thread. You can stop doubting now. I'll do whatever I want. I certainly would not want to do something that a bunch of people are calling questionable and ****ish. No it's not like saying any of those things. You yourself called it a "gray" area and wanted confirmation from the devs that it was OK to do. None of those things require that and none of them have produced a response nearly as vehement as what you've observed among the people responding here. And you won't if you don't ever consider the possibility that you are in the wrong. Because what people are worried about is not your particular bots with your arbitrarily self-imposed rules. What people are worried about is playing with a bunch of afk bots....and not wanting that kind of gameplay. Get over yourself.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
The "not enough players" situation can be solved by letting the alert start with less than 5 players after a certain amount of time. The "someone brought their bot" problem can only be solved by people not bringing their bots.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But apparently, it's a big deal to you that Superscrub, Megadunce, Ultranoob, and Mightyderp, the level 10s you got randomly grouped with, are all actively pushing their buttons while you mow everything down before their charged attacks even go off? Right... You probably wouldn't even notice if they were AFK or not, other than how they moved around.
Is hostile towards new players.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yeah the ones that you would consistently bring to grab alerts, level them up way beyond 10 and still think it's okay to put them on auto-follow auto-eb mode. Honestly if you think that's okay on any level and somehow think it's a more valid method of gameplay than that of the lowbies you've just charmingly insulted, get the **** over yourself.
but yeah, follow-botting is still unacceptable in any game I've played.
Unless we are a chicken.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
- - -
As for "the newbie names" they really were really just meant to convey a feeling of 4 low level, possibly inexperienced players. It's pretty amusing (and telling) how so many of you fixated on that so intensely. Despite them being hypothetical people who do not actually exist.
Oh well, carry on. Maybe I'll run into some of you ingame--feel free to say hi to me and/or my autofollow alts.
A mobiass strip, if you will.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
How can peoples still be going on about this?
People who are ok with using them, will and those who aren't, won't.
Nothing anyone says here , will change that.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But again, it's pretty clear what almost everyone here thinks. Risk the tickets if you wish.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
1) Smaller-than-normal zone limits were imposed, making the presence of too many people not currently engaged in the fight a hindrance. Note that this problem can be caused by people who aren't EB-spamming but are too weak to contribute and just came along for a carry, or even by too many zone questers. (Not that anyone quests really anymore, but yeah, the possibility exists)
2) The fact that the cosmics are world bosses rather than instanced, large-group "raid" bosses takes away the ability to kick non-performers. Being unable to remove problem players also extends to trolls etc as well.
Not sure why I bothered to say any of those. You seem pretty much beyond reason.