Technically, I think this behavior is allowed (and I think it's been confirmed by a Community Manager (TrailTurtle, but again, take this with a grain of salt because I'm going on my own memory here)). It doesn't break any rules.
Such discussions were typically around double-boxing generally, not the follow-bot behavior I am talking about. Dual-boxing is not prohibited, but anything that uses automated behavior for gameplay is.
If you guys think manually setting a character to follow another one with their energy builder is on, think about this. I can do the same thing while at my keyboard and let someone else, someone I don't even know, without them even knowing it. And that's not botting, because I did all that manually. Botting is having a program continuously gaining you XP by grinding or whatever, something that can be done overnight while you're asleep. That's what's against the rules. Judging by what some people have said, it seems like you guys think that as long as no one is actively controlling a character at all times, then it's botting. Like if I go to shave my butt for 15 minutes and keep my character idle and I get back and my character had been attacked by an enemy, and I killed it back with my auto attack, that's botting. And that's not right.
The technicalities of what qualifies as "botting" can be argued for pages. The more important aspect of what's going on is that the energy builder is exclusively being used and nothing else, and there's an enough amount of automation to it.
Joining a random PUG and opting to just spam your energy builder while ignoring your other powers is objectively crappy team-member behavior. As a team-player you're not contributing like you should and are just half-***ing things in such a case. It doesn't matter if there's a follow-bot / drone / puppet / whatever you want to call it or an actual player doing it. It's crappy, inconsiderate behavior either way. If you're joining a random PUG, have the flippin' decency to actually participate properly like it's unquestioningly expected of you, or go join a full premade team of people you know who tolerate what it is you're doing.
What makes it more glaringly crappy for a follow-bot is that the main player can bring their follow-bot consistently to grab alerts, continously level up that follow-bot and all the while have it still just auto-spam its EB regardless, and still think it's okay hogging up an extra group spot. I mean seriously? Like I'd be sooo okay seeing a level 30 or even 20 toon with its potently-developed arsenal of powers just run around spending the whole alert just using its EB. It's ridiculous. It's scummy.
And the biggest advocate of doing this is saying that they're being "altriustic" by shoe-horning that kind of BS into the PUG while denying a spot to someone who's playing legitimately for their rewards, just because they feel that their solo-ready build makes them entitled to it? Sorry, but you have to have a real bloated sense of self-worth to think that.
There are enough reasons already stated as to why follow-botting or whatever it wants to be called is objectively bad behavior, exploitation of game mechanics and it shouldn't be tolerated.
Just to point out a little flaw in your requirements here. I have been both the lowbie and the lvl 40 uber in this scenario. The lvl 40 does EVERYTHING. They often run ahead of the 'team' and just annihilate their enemies. The lowbie does not get a CHANCE to contribute because before they even REACH their target they are long dead. I am not joking here. Seriously, you use your low powered travel power trying to catch up to Mr. Uber to get a chance to shoot something but all you find is dead bodies or nothing at all. Then the boss comes around. If you are lucky you get to take a shot at it... Maybe one if you are quick. Then it is dead and a lot of time Mr. Uber vanishes before the cut-scene is even over.
I seriously doubt this is a scenario being faced in every alert, because I've been on enough alerts to know that even a team mix of level 20s to 40 don't wipe out mobs as quickly as you're describing, because not every player toon is built like Mr. Uber. I don't think my argument is flawed.
I will admit when you are Mr. Uber it feels pretty badass but when you are the lowbie it often feels either sort of awestriking or just a bit disappointing.
Sure, but in the end my rampage of destruction got you to the rewards you were seeking faster. I'm sure you'd rather have that than sitting there wondering why the que won't pop while someone else's eb-buddy is in there taking your spot.
I don't get all this chit chat about gray areas ANYONE doing this follow bot thingy should be banned if you do anything that in theory can hinder other players its against TOS. The TOS is pretty clear on this.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The gray area is that early on in Champs life, dual-boxing was allowed as long as both characters were actively being played, or left to idle (do nothing at all). I agree that this sort of use is a problem, though.
The gray area is that early on in Champs life, dual-boxing was allowed as long as both characters were actively being played, or left to idle (do nothing at all). I agree that this sort of use is a problem, though.
Yeah theres a difference between two people playing on one PC and follow botting though. You can set up different monitors and partitions easily for different players. Follow botting is one player having a dead weight character follow them about. That does not benefit anyone ever.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Depends on who's in the alert. A high end veteran freeform who's powering through an alert will certainly outperform a novice leveling up a toon -- they have better gear, a stronger build, and more experience playing the game -- but I've seen plenty of not very effective level 40s, and some pretty competent lower levels.
Sure, but in the end my rampage of destruction got you to the rewards you were seeking faster. I'm sure you'd rather have that than sitting there wondering why the que won't pop while someone else's eb-buddy is in there taking your spot.
You're implying that "spots" in basic alerts are somehow finite. When one group gets filled, the next one usually happens pretty quickly--unless it's pyramid power on a day when burst alerts aren't the daily, or during off hours. As someone who plays during off hours, believe me when I say that joining a queue as person #4 still means there's a pretty long wait ahead. Anything that pushes those groups to fill faster is welcome.
Depends on who's in the alert. A high end veteran freeform who's powering through an alert will certainly outperform a novice leveling up a toon -- they have better gear, a stronger build, and more experience playing the game -- but I've seen plenty of not very effective level 40s, and some pretty competent lower levels.
Still, with ATs in particular, the toolkit is so limited since, for whatever sick reason, they typically don't get their energy unlocks until around 25 and often, the early power slots are wasted on largely useless stuff like blasts. Even the best of players can only do so much when the only options are "use this mediocre single target attack once or twice, then lean on the energy builder for awhile to slowly fill back up."
Plus in general, low level characters don't have all the superstats, talents, specializations, etc that help make their upper-level counterparts so much more effective.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
I seriously doubt this is a scenario being faced in every alert, because I've been on enough alerts to know that even a team mix of level 20s to 40 don't wipe out mobs as quickly as you're describing, because not every player toon is built like Mr. Uber. I don't think my argument is flawed.
Not every alert. I am referring specifically to how it goes when someone purposefully brings their Uber lvl 40 into the Alert rather for the Daily or to pull along a Bot or whatever their reasoning.
Also just because some lvl 40's can't hack it does not mean that properly designed ones also can't. I've seen gun users, infernals, fire, and sometimes lightning builds that literally wipe out entire enemy mobs in a second or less. It is pretty impressive. I only have one or two that can pull that sort of nonsense but I've run them in Alerts for the daily before haahaa.
Also I ran into Aesica and her other following toon last night while me and my mate were level grinding. I was grateful just to have the Alert pop. Before they showed up it was wasting my exp boost for about ten minutes because no one was queuing up. Aesica's main handled the mobs fairly quickly and there was not a whole lot to talk about though she is not what I would describe as an Uber 40 that melts faces in seconds.
Such discussions were typically around double-boxing generally, not the follow-bot behavior I am talking about. Dual-boxing is not prohibited, but anything that uses automated behavior for gameplay is.
These guys, if they're just using their energy builder and following, aren't using automated behavior.
Look people shouldn't be taking their follow bot into alerts. First up they are taking up an extra space that could be used for another player and they are getting rewards that other player should be getting. Thats just wrong and not helpful at all.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Look people shouldn't be taking their follow bot into alerts. First up they are taking up an extra space that could be used for another player and they are getting rewards that other player should be getting. Thats just wrong and not helpful at all.
People also shouldn't grief other people constantly by following them around and shooting them with ping pong balls, people shouldn't jump into an open mission as an Onslaught Villain and then playing "let's get free tokens while griefing up this mission", people shouldn't fix auction house prices by buying up anything that's low-priced and setting their own price, because they have the money to do so, people shouldn't ERP as friggin 8-year-olds, people shouldn't exploit strong builds or threat generating powers to ruin 30 other peoples' play time, but as long as there's no rule about it, it's going to keep happening.
Still, with ATs in particular, the toolkit is so limited since, for whatever sick reason, they typically don't get their energy unlocks until around 25 and often, the early power slots are wasted on largely useless stuff like blasts. Even the best of players can only do so much when the only options are "use this mediocre single target attack once or twice, then lean on the energy builder for awhile to slowly fill back up."
Plus in general, low level characters don't have all the superstats, talents, specializations, etc that help make their upper-level counterparts so much more effective.
Please don't try to imply that lowbies, AT's or otherwise, being in the alert is the same thing as the EB-spamming bot you've brought along, as a way to justify you bringing your bot. Because it's not the same thing. It's really not. At least those players with the "largely useless" stuff like blasts are actively participating and legitimately earning their rewards through said participation. Stop trying to invalidate their legitimate gameplay just so you can validate your own exploitative crummy behavior. Stop saying that just because you can solo the alert, you're entitled to throwing these players under the bus in such a manner. Stop being pompous. Stop being so self-absorbed. Stop it.
And leaning on the energy builder to fill energy back up so they can use their main attacks? Geeeee that sounds like, exactly what the energy builder is intended for! Who've thought?
People also shouldn't grief other people constantly by following them around and shooting them with ping pong balls, people shouldn't jump into an open mission as an Onslaught Villain and then playing "let's get free tokens while griefing up this mission", people shouldn't fix auction house prices by buying up anything that's low-priced and setting their own price, because they have the money to do so, people shouldn't ERP as friggin 8-year-olds, people shouldn't exploit strong builds or threat generating powers to ruin 30 other peoples' play time, but as long as there's no rule about it, it's going to keep happening.
Well... I get your point but... I think there are some rules against some of those things lol. Mostly two of them I believe.
It's interesting that some people keep trying to derail the conversation onto other topics, rather than discussing the issue at hand. Interesting... suspicious...
Wow, this thread. Seems like plenty of people have no idea what the difference between multiboxing and botting are. Anyone who thinks that clicking on someone and pushing the follow key on your keyboard is botting, you get triple facepalms. If that were the case, anyone who has ever used this legit game function should be banned, multiboxing or no.
If someone wants to carry my gimpy, low levels through an alert, wooo! If they multibox while doing it, good for them. It doesn't negatively impact my gameplay in anyway that having just a regular 40 slaughtering everything wouldn't do. I still get all of my XP as if I had actually done something other than push the 'w' key.
If that multiboxer should get a nice drop from a boss, well, that's RNG for you. The game does not reward people for being decent human beings. There are no "A for effort" rewards. Hell, you don't even get rewarded for being the bestest dps / tank / healer ever. RNG is not about being fair, it's about artificially extending the life of content. Someone multiboxing is potentially saving themselves some time but they still have to put in some minimal effort to keep their toons up.
Botting, on the other hand, requires nothing. You run the program and leave. It doesn't require being at the computer, let alone pay attention to two+ boxes.
I'd be impressed if someone could successfully multibox a cosmic fight without botting. They're far more skilled than I am if they can get two toons to participate enough to meet the reward threshold and not just be always dead. But I guess someone who can actually play two characters at once during our epic boss battles is too skilled for them to "deserve" more chance at rewards.
I don't know how anyone can talk about rewards being given to people who put in the effort when just by having a second box to pay attention too is more effort than someone who isn't multiboxing. It's not their fault that content is so easy a single level 40 gimped by 10 levels can do the work of a 5 man team.
I don't know how anyone can talk about rewards being given to people who put in the effort when just by having a second box to pay attention too is more effort than someone who isn't multiboxing. It's not their fault that content is so easy a single level 40 gimped by 10 levels can do the work of a 5 man team.
Since when is putting the second box toon strictly on auto-follow and auto-EB mode all throughout the alert considered "paying attention" and exactly how does that translate into "effort"?
I'd be impressed if someone could successfully multibox a cosmic fight without botting. They're far more skilled than I am if they can get two toons to participate enough to meet the reward threshold and not just be always dead. But I guess someone who can actually play two characters at once during our epic boss battles is too skilled for them to "deserve" more chance at rewards.
Seems like you don't really get what's being discussed. The kind of multi-boxing being discussed has nothing to do with the player actually using a single control source to play the toons on both boxes enough so that both toons perform at a level that's expected of them. That being achieved during a cosmic fight would be admittedly impressive and I don't see much of a problem with it. Someone with an auto-follow, auto-eb toon isn't "playing" both toons at once. The main toon is being played while the second one is left on a leash.
Wow, this thread. Seems like plenty of people have no idea what the difference between multiboxing and botting are. Anyone who thinks that clicking on someone and pushing the follow key on your keyboard is botting, you get triple facepalms. If that were the case, anyone who has ever used this legit game function should be banned, multiboxing or no.
I do understand what a bot is, which is why I said "follow-bots". Setting a toon to spam EB while on follow is poor multiboxing, but it is automated gameplay.
I don't think you read my original post clearly. My concern stemmed from using this technique in special alerts like Warlord, Cybermind, where is there is a chance of failure. This isn't the end of the world, but it has negatively impacted my gameplay.
"Since when is putting the second box toon strictly on auto-follow and auto-EB mode all throughout the alert considered "paying attention" and exactly how does that translate into "effort"?"
Tiny bit of effort is still effort. Paying attention to splash damage to the other toon still happens. However, much of the game is so easy, a multiboxer doesn't actually have to do much with their other toon(s). Which is why I talk about how it would be impressive if someone could successfully multibox in content that is actually demanding of player attention.
"Seems like you don't really get what's being discussed."
There are several different things being talked about in this thread which are being blended together and confused. There is a difference between using a program to play the game for you and using legitimate functions within the scope of their intended purpose to make playing more efficient. If Cryptic didn't want this happening, they would have removed or altered some of those functions long ago. Multiboxing is nothing new in CO.
"Someone with an auto-follow, auto-eb toon isn't "playing" both toons at once."
They are playing both toons at once. It's just that one of those toons is so powerful and content is so easy that they don't actually need to do much with the other toon. It is not automated gameplay. Setting up the other toon still requires manual input. The second toon will not automatically heal itself. The second toon will not automatically move to avoid damage. The second toon will not automatically go through doors. When an actual program starts being used to control the actions of the other toon, it will then be botting. Content being trivialized by a single toon does not equal botting just because the other toon isn't required to succeed.
"I don't think you read my original post clearly. My concern stemmed from using this technique in special alerts like Warlord, Cybermind, where is there is a chance of failure."
I am posting because people are screwing up the difference between multiboxing and botting, not because I'm replying to your concerns. I see no difference between someone being an ****-hat by rushing a boss with a lockout or by fail multiboxing.
Maybe I will set up a second, free account and multibox myself. The secondary toon could have Med Nanites and Sentinel Aura, and stand around 100' from me, while my DPS uses 100' ranged attacks on Cosmics--might work out well.
"Since when is putting the second box toon strictly on auto-follow and auto-EB mode all throughout the alert considered "paying attention" and exactly how does that translate into "effort"?"
Tiny bit of effort is still effort. Paying attention to splash damage to the other toon still happens. However, much of the game is so easy, a multiboxer doesn't actually have to do much with their other toon(s). Which is why I talk about how it would be impressive if someone could successfully multibox in content that is actually demanding of player attention.
"Seems like you don't really get what's being discussed."
There are several different things being talked about in this thread which are being blended together and confused. There is a difference between using a program to play the game for you and using legitimate functions within the scope of their intended purpose to make playing more efficient. If Cryptic didn't want this happening, they would have removed or altered some of those functions long ago. Multiboxing is nothing new in CO.
"Someone with an auto-follow, auto-eb toon isn't "playing" both toons at once."
They are playing both toons at once. It's just that one of those toons is so powerful and content is so easy that they don't actually need to do much with the other toon. It is not automated gameplay. Setting up the other toon still requires manual input. The second toon will not automatically heal itself. The second toon will not automatically move to avoid damage. The second toon will not automatically go through doors. When an actual program starts being used to control the actions of the other toon, it will then be botting. Content being trivialized by a single toon does not equal botting just because the other toon isn't required to succeed.
"I don't think you read my original post clearly. My concern stemmed from using this technique in special alerts like Warlord, Cybermind, where is there is a chance of failure."
I am posting because people are screwing up the difference between multiboxing and botting, not because I'm replying to your concerns. I see no difference between someone being an ****-hat by rushing a boss with a lockout or by fail multiboxing.
There is some really valid points in your post here but your making one big mistake. When people are saying "follow-bots" in the context of Champions Online they dont mean a bot like you would find in say Runescape a few years back. "Follow-bot" is simply the term now used in CO by the players for a mule toon that follows the players real toon about.
Its kind of like CC in most mmos it means Crowd Control but a large chunk of the time CC in Champions Online means Costume Contest.
You got to look at these phrases in a game by game basis.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I got kicked out of three Nemesis Alerts in a row last night because, somebody obviously invited their follow thingie stuff and the system kicked me, even though all the 'ready' boxes icons were already checked. Not cool.
To me this is nothing but an exploit. Try to justify it as much as you like, it doesn't change a thing.
Kicked out of alerts? No, that's just the queue bugging on you; nothing to do with the topic on hand. If it makes you feel better, nobody else can get in when that bug is going on, either.
Maybe I will set up a second, free account and multibox myself. The secondary toon could have Med Nanites and Sentinel Aura, and stand around 100' from me, while my DPS uses 100' ranged attacks on Cosmics--might work out well.
Cosmics are a different matter, and that's not something I'd condone unless you had a way to, without botting, properly control both characters throughout the fight. But if you showed up in one of my smash/grab/burst alerts with such a character, I wouldn't mind. I'd actually probably appreciate the buffs. Who doesn't love having an aura user on their team?
Here's a good combination, based on a character I made based on the theme of offering huge amounts of aura-based support. Note, not actually made for the purposes of auto-following, but it'd certainly work well:
Aura of Primal Majesty (or any aura really, but I like the extra stats from AoPM) Inertial Dampening Field Sentinel Aura Sentry Aura
Use in the support role. You could even tack on a healing pet, such as the drones.
There is some really valid points in your post here but your making one big mistake. When people are saying "follow-bots" in the context of Champions Online they dont mean a bot like you would find in say Runescape a few years back. "Follow-bot" is simply the term now used in CO by the players for a mule toon that follows the players real toon about.
Only time I've ever heard (seen) it used is in this thread. It's an inaccurate term for something that has nothing to do with actual botting and, if anything, only serves to poison the well with regards to what is actually going on.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Cosmics are a different matter, and that's not something I'd condone unless you had a way to, without botting, properly control both characters throughout the fight. But if you showed up in one of my smash/grab/burst alerts with such a character, I wouldn't mind. I'd actually probably appreciate the buffs. Who doesn't love having an aura user on their team?
If it's allowed, then I don't need anyone to condone me showing up to a Cosmic in the way I suggested. Essentially, I could make a follow-bot the customized sidekick that CO doesn't have a system for.
Heck, a toon with a R3 energy builder and a good aura would be way better than any sidekick you can currently buy from the Z Store.
Only time I've ever heard (seen) it used is in this thread. It's an inaccurate term for something that has nothing to do with actual botting and, if anything, only serves to poison the well with regards to what is actually going on.
I will stop you right there as this term is being used quite a lot when dealing with with a certain player with a number less than 1 in his name. Whole zones have been calling him out about him using follow bot to ruin cosmic runs. A Kiga last night being one of them. A lot of players are now using the term "follow bot" like this in CO. This thread is pretty much about him being a dick with said "follow bots". He purposefully used his bot to make Kiga fail.
Please continue to defend him by all means as action being taken to stop him could affect your own play style.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I will stop you right there as this term is being used quite a lot when dealing with with a certain player with a number less than 1 in his name. Whole zones have been calling him out about him using follow bot to ruin cosmic runs. A Kiga last night being one of them. A lot of players are now using the term "follow bot" like this in CO. This thread is pretty much about him being a dick with said "follow bots". He purposefully used his bot to make Kiga fail.
Please continue to defend him by all means as action being taken to stop him could affect your own play style.
1) It's still a misleading term, no matter how many start using it. There is no "bot" involved.
2) If this particular player is intentionally making runs fail, like, really on purpose for the sake of being a troll, then you guys should be channeling your energy toward the player in question and his/her (possibly) abusive intentions. Somebody used the tailor as an example here already, so I'll use it again: If some creep uses the tailor to make their character look like a child, then takes it into Caprice for "adult roleplay," should outrage be directed at the tailor for allowing people to make childlike characters? Or should it be directed at the disgusting individual abusing it?
Point being, not everyone who puts an alt on auto-follow and runs content with it in tow is trying to ruin other players' experiences. Some of us are actually quite nice and helpful. ^^
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
1) It's still a misleading term, no matter how many start using it. There is no "bot" involved.
Yeah there is, it's just botting using available server-side tools as opposed to third party tools. That may make a significant difference in terms of whether it's a ToS violation, but it's still automated play.
I will stop you right there as this term is being used quite a lot when dealing with with a certain player with a number less than 1 in his name. Whole zones have been calling him out about him using follow bot to ruin cosmic runs. A Kiga last night being one of them. A lot of players are now using the term "follow bot" like this in CO. This thread is pretty much about him being a dick with said "follow bots". He purposefully used his bot to make Kiga fail.
Please continue to defend him by all means as action being taken to stop him could affect your own play style.
1) It's still a misleading term, no matter how many start using it. There is no "bot" involved.
2) If this particular player is intentionally making runs fail, like, really on purpose for the sake of being a troll, then you guys should be channeling your energy toward the player in question and his/her (possibly) abusive intentions. Somebody used the tailor as an example here already, so I'll use it again: If some creep uses the tailor to make their character look like a child, then takes it into Caprice for "adult roleplay," should outrage be directed at the tailor for allowing people to make childlike characters? Or should it be directed at the disgusting individual abusing it?
Point being, not everyone who puts an alt on auto-follow and runs content with it in tow is trying to ruin other players' experiences. Some of us are actually quite nice and helpful. ^^
Just so you know the person we are mentioning it looks like he got banned for doing what he did. He just used an alt account to link to what can only be described as fanfiction were he said he quit and we are all scrubs and he "quit" ( read into that as BANNED). Useless dead weight doesnt help anyone.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Just so you know the person we are mentioning it looks like he got banned for doing what he did. He just used an alt account to link to what can only be described as fanfiction were he said he quit and we are all scrubs and he "quit" ( read into that as BANNED). Useless dead weight doesnt help anyone.
No official response may have been made in this thread, but I guess it's up to individuals if they want to risk getting an "official response" in game about it. Good luck with that, I'ma keep playing on one character at a time since that's all I need and all I feel entitled to.
Yeah there is, it's just botting using available server-side tools as opposed to third party tools. That may make a significant difference in terms of whether it's a ToS violation, but it's still automated play.
This.
Still, I think a whole second account made of sidekick toons is a great idea. Everyone, come on along and try it with me.
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. Here, even having any child porn on your computer will put you in the suspicion list for child crimes.so they would have to make sure nothing is recorded.We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;boy does this one get broken a lot
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
The trading itself, is not illegal, it is merely economics.Anyone can do it.
section 16 has a lot more.
Now the trick is proving it and getting CS to do something.
Still, I think a whole second account made of sidekick toons is a great idea. Everyone, come on along and try it with me.
I have a sidekick with The Finnish, named Karelian Kid. On a Silver Account. It lasted just a little while. Since the 2nd 'puter died. And i made SERPENT Dan sidekick (henchman) to Recon, because he is a bit like Deadpool. (and i made him way before Deadpool The Movie was made) And my nephew played sometimes on that account. (is that against ToS??) And i don't answer in chat while in combat. Most of the times.
I'm not a bot! I'm a human being!
Post edited by flyingfinn on
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
And my nephew played sometimes on that account. (is that against ToS??) And i don't answer in chat while in combat. Most of the times.
I'm not a bot! I'm a human being!
I mean, Finn, that the second account will consist of toons placed on Follow, with energy builder toggle, that will function similar to sidekick devices.
I don't care what is or against the rules when it comes to multiboxing(because true botting is for sure against the rules) All I am asking is please don't do it.. and no.. the bad behavior of other people is no excuse for doing it yourself. Be courteous and considerate to others.
FINN, try to get the right person in your quotes. That comment is not mine.
as for the person who left his egotistical, self-delusional, exit message. That character, as far as I can recall,uses CC on it's attacks, were they tanking?
But my favourite comment, was " I've haven't lied in 16years"
anyone got the link,I want to have a lok on the forums for the game he supposedly left. See what the people apart from the ONE person he quoted said.
I don't care what is or against the rules when it comes to multiboxing(because true botting is for sure against the rules) All I am asking is please don't do it.. and no.. the bad behavior of other people is no excuse for doing it yourself. Be courteous and considerate to others.
I don't care what is or against the rules when it comes to multiboxing(because true botting is for sure against the rules) All I am asking is please don't do it.. and no.. the bad behavior of other people is no excuse for doing it yourself. Be courteous and considerate to others.
Internet.
Yeah yeah...I don't see that as an excuse but it is the way of things.
Again if you had not noticed the person who "Follow botted" in the CO term of things got mass reported then BANNED. That should tell you all Cryptic and PWE's stance on the subject.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Again if you had not noticed the person who "Follow botted" in the CO term of things got mass reported then BANNED. That should tell you all Cryptic and PWE's stance on the subject.
They did a lot of banworthy things though. Not sure if there's clarity on that particular thing being the reason.
Only if you constantly listen to chat and such; in less than a month this will be completely forgotten. This is hardly a clear statement of their potion; that would be adding something to ToS, which everyone can at least see and read.
Again if you had not noticed the person who "Follow botted" in the CO term of things got mass reported then BANNED. That should tell you all Cryptic and PWE's stance on the subject.
Can't say I've ever seen an MMO where this kind of behavior is allowed. I don't care if people can carry alerts, I can do that too. Pretty sure 90% of the people reading this can. Using multiple accounts to game the system, and give yourself a double chance of drops, is scummy and wrong. I don't really care how you try to legitimize it, this is bad MMO behavior, and one of the more entitled things I've heard of people doing in this game. Hell, if you're in an alert with me? I don't care that you can solo it, you're *not* soloing it. Odds are, I'm out DPSing you, and screw anyone who's gonna use my work to give themselves a 200% chance for a drop. I don't run alerts like that to give myself a pat on the back, and I damn sure don't need the unlocks. I do it to help out lower level players, or make people's runs easier, and 99% of the time I give away whatever rare stuff I pick up. That "harmless" multibox character just robbed a slot a new player could have filled. That's not ok, and if I ever see it I'm putting a ticket in.
SMFH I can't even believe this is in question.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
My opinion is why bother botting in a video game. It defeats the whole purpose of them to have fun and immerse oneself for a while far from worries of the real world. This topic kinda reminds me of aim bots etc in pvp heavy games and how they ruin it for everyone else. So for once I agree with you PWE ban those lowlife cheaters.
Point being, not everyone who carries a sword in public is trying to kill other people. Some of us are actually using them to chop fruit for other people ^^
And yet you're still not allowed to carry a sword in public
We can all fly as high as the dreams we dare to live. Unless we are a chicken.
Comments
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Joining a random PUG and opting to just spam your energy builder while ignoring your other powers is objectively crappy team-member behavior. As a team-player you're not contributing like you should and are just half-***ing things in such a case. It doesn't matter if there's a follow-bot / drone / puppet / whatever you want to call it or an actual player doing it. It's crappy, inconsiderate behavior either way. If you're joining a random PUG, have the flippin' decency to actually participate properly like it's unquestioningly expected of you, or go join a full premade team of people you know who tolerate what it is you're doing.
What makes it more glaringly crappy for a follow-bot is that the main player can bring their follow-bot consistently to grab alerts, continously level up that follow-bot and all the while have it still just auto-spam its EB regardless, and still think it's okay hogging up an extra group spot. I mean seriously? Like I'd be sooo okay seeing a level 30 or even 20 toon with its potently-developed arsenal of powers just run around spending the whole alert just using its EB. It's ridiculous. It's scummy.
And the biggest advocate of doing this is saying that they're being "altriustic" by shoe-horning that kind of BS into the PUG while denying a spot to someone who's playing legitimately for their rewards, just because they feel that their solo-ready build makes them entitled to it? Sorry, but you have to have a real bloated sense of self-worth to think that.
There are enough reasons already stated as to why follow-botting or whatever it wants to be called is objectively bad behavior, exploitation of game mechanics and it shouldn't be tolerated. I seriously doubt this is a scenario being faced in every alert, because I've been on enough alerts to know that even a team mix of level 20s to 40 don't wipe out mobs as quickly as you're describing, because not every player toon is built like Mr. Uber. I don't think my argument is flawed.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Plus in general, low level characters don't have all the superstats, talents, specializations, etc that help make their upper-level counterparts so much more effective.
Also just because some lvl 40's can't hack it does not mean that properly designed ones also can't. I've seen gun users, infernals, fire, and sometimes lightning builds that literally wipe out entire enemy mobs in a second or less. It is pretty impressive. I only have one or two that can pull that sort of nonsense but I've run them in Alerts for the daily before haahaa.
Also I ran into Aesica and her other following toon last night while me and my mate were level grinding. I was grateful just to have the Alert pop. Before they showed up it was wasting my exp boost for about ten minutes because no one was queuing up. Aesica's main handled the mobs fairly quickly and there was not a whole lot to talk about though she is not what I would describe as an Uber 40 that melts faces in seconds.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And leaning on the energy builder to fill energy back up so they can use their main attacks? Geeeee that sounds like, exactly what the energy builder is intended for! Who've thought?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If someone wants to carry my gimpy, low levels through an alert, wooo! If they multibox while doing it, good for them. It doesn't negatively impact my gameplay in anyway that having just a regular 40 slaughtering everything wouldn't do. I still get all of my XP as if I had actually done something other than push the 'w' key.
If that multiboxer should get a nice drop from a boss, well, that's RNG for you. The game does not reward people for being decent human beings. There are no "A for effort" rewards. Hell, you don't even get rewarded for being the bestest dps / tank / healer ever. RNG is not about being fair, it's about artificially extending the life of content. Someone multiboxing is potentially saving themselves some time but they still have to put in some minimal effort to keep their toons up.
Botting, on the other hand, requires nothing. You run the program and leave. It doesn't require being at the computer, let alone pay attention to two+ boxes.
I'd be impressed if someone could successfully multibox a cosmic fight without botting. They're far more skilled than I am if they can get two toons to participate enough to meet the reward threshold and not just be always dead. But I guess someone who can actually play two characters at once during our epic boss battles is too skilled for them to "deserve" more chance at rewards.
I don't know how anyone can talk about rewards being given to people who put in the effort when just by having a second box to pay attention too is more effort than someone who isn't multiboxing. It's not their fault that content is so easy a single level 40 gimped by 10 levels can do the work of a 5 man team.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I don't think you read my original post clearly. My concern stemmed from using this technique in special alerts like Warlord, Cybermind, where is there is a chance of failure. This isn't the end of the world, but it has negatively impacted my gameplay.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
You know what the TOS needs an update to include this stuff. .......Apart from the ping pong thing I cant start my day unless I've bullied Caliga.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Tiny bit of effort is still effort. Paying attention to splash damage to the other toon still happens. However, much of the game is so easy, a multiboxer doesn't actually have to do much with their other toon(s). Which is why I talk about how it would be impressive if someone could successfully multibox in content that is actually demanding of player attention.
"Seems like you don't really get what's being discussed."
There are several different things being talked about in this thread which are being blended together and confused. There is a difference between using a program to play the game for you and using legitimate functions within the scope of their intended purpose to make playing more efficient. If Cryptic didn't want this happening, they would have removed or altered some of those functions long ago. Multiboxing is nothing new in CO.
"Someone with an auto-follow, auto-eb toon isn't "playing" both toons at once."
They are playing both toons at once. It's just that one of those toons is so powerful and content is so easy that they don't actually need to do much with the other toon. It is not automated gameplay. Setting up the other toon still requires manual input. The second toon will not automatically heal itself. The second toon will not automatically move to avoid damage. The second toon will not automatically go through doors. When an actual program starts being used to control the actions of the other toon, it will then be botting. Content being trivialized by a single toon does not equal botting just because the other toon isn't required to succeed.
"I don't think you read my original post clearly. My concern stemmed from using this technique in special alerts like Warlord, Cybermind, where is there is a chance of failure."
I am posting because people are screwing up the difference between multiboxing and botting, not because I'm replying to your concerns. I see no difference between someone being an ****-hat by rushing a boss with a lockout or by fail multiboxing.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Maybe I will set up a second, free account and multibox myself. The secondary toon could have Med Nanites and Sentinel Aura, and stand around 100' from me, while my DPS uses 100' ranged attacks on Cosmics--might work out well.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Its kind of like CC in most mmos it means Crowd Control but a large chunk of the time CC in Champions Online means Costume Contest.
You got to look at these phrases in a game by game basis.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
To me this is nothing but an exploit. Try to justify it as much as you like, it doesn't change a thing.
Here's a good combination, based on a character I made based on the theme of offering huge amounts of aura-based support. Note, not actually made for the purposes of auto-following, but it'd certainly work well:
Aura of Primal Majesty (or any aura really, but I like the extra stats from AoPM)
Inertial Dampening Field
Sentinel Aura
Sentry Aura
Use in the support role. You could even tack on a healing pet, such as the drones. Only time I've ever heard (seen) it used is in this thread. It's an inaccurate term for something that has nothing to do with actual botting and, if anything, only serves to poison the well with regards to what is actually going on.
Heck, a toon with a R3 energy builder and a good aura would be way better than any sidekick you can currently buy from the Z Store.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Please continue to defend him by all means as action being taken to stop him could affect your own play style.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
2) If this particular player is intentionally making runs fail, like, really on purpose for the sake of being a troll, then you guys should be channeling your energy toward the player in question and his/her (possibly) abusive intentions. Somebody used the tailor as an example here already, so I'll use it again: If some creep uses the tailor to make their character look like a child, then takes it into Caprice for "adult roleplay," should outrage be directed at the tailor for allowing people to make childlike characters? Or should it be directed at the disgusting individual abusing it?
Point being, not everyone who puts an alt on auto-follow and runs content with it in tow is trying to ruin other players' experiences. Some of us are actually quite nice and helpful. ^^
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Still, I think a whole second account made of sidekick toons is a great idea.
Everyone, come on along and try it with me.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
15. User Conduct
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. Here, even having any child porn on your computer will put you in the suspicion list for child crimes.so they would have to make sure nothing is recorded.We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;boy does this one get broken a lot
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
The trading itself, is not illegal, it is merely economics.Anyone can do it.
section 16 has a lot more.
Now the trick is proving it and getting CS to do something.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It lasted just a little while. Since the 2nd 'puter died.
And i made SERPENT Dan sidekick (henchman) to Recon, because he is a bit like Deadpool. (and i made him way before Deadpool The Movie was made)
And my nephew played sometimes on that account. (is that against ToS??)
And i don't answer in chat while in combat. Most of the times.
I'm not a bot! I'm a human being!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
as for the person who left his egotistical, self-delusional, exit message. That character, as far as I can recall,uses CC on it's attacks, were they tanking?
But my favourite comment, was " I've haven't lied in 16years"
anyone got the link,I want to have a lok on the forums for the game he supposedly left. See what the people apart from the ONE person he quoted said.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Or something....
(Did i get it right this time? (I did))
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
SMFH I can't even believe this is in question.
RIP Caine
Unless we are a chicken.