"Inappropriate" Language

protogoth

In another game from another developer hosted by another publishing company, we had a language filter which was overzealous. Among words which were censored were "participate" (because c-i-p-a is some sort of slur in some Latin American nation), "computer" (because of the meaning of the French word p-u-t-e), and "c.r.a.p." (because the filter was set up by South Koreans who didn't understand the difference between words like that and words which are allegedly "vulgar" names for feces). I have just posted in another thread and used the word "c-r-a-p," only to see it replaced by four asterisks. After the first edit to complain about that, the word was perfectly visible, and so I edited again to note my pleasant surprise that this would be fixed so quickly, only to see the word turned back into asterisks. Can we please get a native English speaker to look at the list of words filtered by the auto-censor feature here and edit it to something which is at least moderately sane?

protogoth

protogoth wrote: »

"c.r.a.p." (because the filter was set up by South Koreans who didn't understand the difference between words like that and words which are allegedly "vulgar" names for feces).

Oh, great, now even scientific names for fecal matter (f.e.c.e.s.) are censored? The filter here is obviously ludicrous. Whoever set this up needs to take some time and study the concept and history of "taboo words" in English before presuming to censor native speakers on the basis of some flawed understanding of what words are and what words are not generally considered "taboo" in English (although most native speakers honestly no longer have such views of most of those words).

aloishammer

Three words: "Our Chinese Overlords."

frtoaster

protogoth wrote: »

Oh, great, now even scientific names for fecal matter (f.e.c.e.s.) are censored?

So how extensive is the filter's vocabulary?

ordure
coitus
phallus
pudenda

Not very, it seems.

protogoth

frtoaster wrote: »

protogoth wrote: »

Oh, great, now even scientific names for fecal matter (f.e.c.e.s.) are censored?

So how extensive is the filter's vocabulary?

ordure
coitus
phallus
pudenda

Not very, it seems.

Scientific terms for body parts and bodily functions are only regarded as taboo by native English speakers who are afflicted with puritanical or Victorian attitudes. They are not considered taboo (whether the term be "vulgar," "profane," "obscene," or something else) by linguists, dictionary-makers, etc.

In fact, the whole business of taboo words in English dates to AD 1066 when the Normans conquered England and proceeded to look down their noses on the "common" people (the English) and the "common" tongue (Old English), hence the designation "vulgar" (which is Latin for "common"). There's nothing ethical or even moral about such a view; it is now regarded as "moral" only due to the fact that most people never bother to examine the origin of the concept of taboo words in English. Later, along came Puritanism, and later still, the Victorian era, both of which added more constipation to attitudes about language and words. None of this should be legislated or imposed by an external authority, but like I said, most people never bother to examine how it came to be, so those of us who do bother to seek answers do generally, to some extent, have to put up with such insolence masquerading as morality, lest the unenlightened masses get their panties in a bunch. At any rate, going overboard with it is a good way to cause frustration and annoyance.

protogoth

And whatever aloishammer posted in this thread is invisible for some reason, although it shows that he posted something when I go to my notifications. What's that about?

tehbubbaloo

in an attempt to ensure nobody can possibly be offended by anything posted on the board...
introducing the 'corporate sheen'.

krittycat

The filter is something that will be looked at. Just remember that we are being added to a board with multiple languages, and that certain things that aren't offensive in one language can be very offensive in others.

Allow PWE some time to finish the full migration and clean up some of the bugs/issues that have cropped up, and I'm sure we'll see some changes to how strict the filter is.

primar13

Vanilla Comes with a Default Censor Database.

Once the Migration is finished this will probably get updated.

krittycat wrote: »

The filter is something that will be looked at. Just remember that we are being added to a board with multiple languages, and that certain things that aren't offensive in one language can be very offensive in others.

Allow PWE some time to finish the full migration and clean up some of the bugs/issues that have cropped up, and I'm sure we'll see some changes to how strict the filter is.

frtoaster

protogoth wrote: »

Scientific terms for body parts and bodily functions are only regarded as taboo by native English speakers who are afflicted with puritanical or Victorian attitudes. They are not considered taboo (whether the term be "vulgar," "profane," "obscene," or something else) by linguists, dictionary-makers, etc.

In fact, the whole business of taboo words in English dates to AD 1066 when the Normans conquered England and proceeded to look down their noses on the "common" people (the English) and the "common" tongue (Old English), hence the designation "vulgar" (which is Latin for "common"). There's nothing ethical or even moral about such a view; it is now regarded as "moral" only due to the fact that most people never bother to examine the origin of the concept of taboo words in English. Later, along came Puritanism, and later still, the Victorian era, both of which added more constipation to attitudes about language and words. None of this should be legislated or imposed by an external authority, but like I said, most people never bother to examine how it came to be, so those of us who do bother to seek answers do generally, to some extent, have to put up with such insolence masquerading as morality, lest the unenlightened masses get their panties in a bunch. At any rate, going overboard with it is a good way to cause frustration and annoyance.

I don't really disagree with this view; I was just having a bit of fun with seeing what words the filter actually knew.

protogoth wrote: »

And whatever aloishammer posted in this thread is invisible for some reason, although it shows that he posted something when I go to my notifications. What's that about?

See this thread:

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1190840/invisible-posts

gulberat

krittycat wrote: »

The filter is something that will be looked at. Just remember that we are being added to a board with multiple languages, and that certain things that aren't offensive in one language can be very offensive in others.

Allow PWE some time to finish the full migration and clean up some of the bugs/issues that have cropped up, and I'm sure we'll see some changes to how strict the filter is.

Thanks, I'd appreciate it, especially given that sometimes my stories don't have completely squeaky-clean language. Things like s*cks, h*ll, d*mn, or cr*p, aren't too severe to be seen on a forum with teenagers, IMO. Even "b*stard," which I have seen used legitimately in a character description. (See what I did there? ) I don't think we need F-bombs all over the place, but it's good to know this will be looked at.

protogoth

frtoaster wrote: »

protogoth wrote: »

And whatever aloishammer posted in this thread is invisible for some reason, although it shows that he posted something when I go to my notifications. What's that about?

See this thread:

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1190840/invisible-posts

Yes, I saw that earlier, but afaik, no Mod or Staff member has made any statement about it. Wouldn't it be nice if there were some kind of warning before half the forum participants wind up with this kind of auto-discipline for something they didn't even know was going to produce such a result? And whose brilliant idea was the "ghost ban" anyway? They should be tarred and feathered and put on display so the public can revile them for such an inane notion.

arrmateys

the ghost ban was just an idea that was never implemented. i doubt it was actually put into effect, or if it was, it was half done, since in that case his name shouldn't even appear on the last poster list.

it's not a bad thing either, you can use it to stop annoying people who can't be stopped with regular or even ip bans, returning through new accounts and proxies. with a ghost ban they still think they're free to cause mayhem, but it deprives them of any sort of attention those kinds of people thrive on.

they think they're being ignored, that the "don't feed the troll" was finally taken to heart and lose interest. most people don't even know what a ghost ban even is, which is even better, since the problem maker often won't realize it either.

protogoth

arrmateys wrote: »

the ghost ban was just an idea that was never implemented. i doubt it was actually put into effect, or if it was, it was half done, since in that case his name shouldn't even appear on the last poster list.

it's not a bad thing either, you can use it to stop annoying people who can't be stopped with regular or even ip bans, returning through new accounts and proxies. with a ghost ban they still think they're free to cause mayhem, but it deprives them of any sort of attention those kinds of people thrive on.

they think they're being ignored, that the "don't feed the troll" was finally taken to heart and lose interest. most people don't even know what a ghost ban even is, which is even better, since the problem maker often won't realize it either.

In the case of aloishammer, I don't recall any behavior from him that was particularly trollish, and I certainly recognize the name from the old fora, so if he had posted anything of that type, I would probably remember. Many user names I don't recognize without the avatar and/or signature, so for a name to stick in my memory, he must have said something at some time to make me notice (so it might have been something trollish), but what it was, I have no idea now (so I doubt it was anything colossal).

kodachikuno

when will the political correctness train finally derail? We cant spend all out lives in fear we might offend some 'special flower' of a person and really... FE.CES?!!

tehbubbaloo

kodachikuno wrote: »

when will the political correctness train finally derail? We cant spend all out lives in fear we might offend some 'special flower' of a person and really... FE.CES?!!

the politically correct vocabulary is, at its root, an attempt to shape thought by limiting the ways in which various ideas or people can be referred to. why do you expect those with an agenda to give up such an OP tool?

StarSword-C

It always cracked me up that the old forum censored "Warcraft"...

gulberat

StarSword-C wrote: »

It always cracked me up that the old forum censored "Warcraft"...

I never understood the reasoning behind that one.

protogoth

kodachikuno wrote: »

when will the political correctness train finally derail? We cant spend all out lives in fear we might offend some 'special flower' of a person and really... FE.CES?!!

I don't believe this can be laid at the feet of Political Correctness (not that I'm a fan; while well-intentioned initially, it has also wandered into excess at times). Quite the contrary, in fact. But let's not go in this direction. The discussion will only devolve.

angrytarg

I am personally in favor of personal responsibility and self determination. I don't support censorship, especially in the most trivial sense it's practiced in this forum. As such, I would like a client-side option to disable the "language filter", so people who feel the need to protect themselves and their offspring from "words" can keep it but people like me have the option to disable the profanity filter like the game allows for.

krittycat

StarSword-C wrote: »

It always cracked me up that the old forum censored "Warcraft"...

Probably a carry-over from PWI's forums, which had to censor it due to the proliferation of people attempting to convert others to play that large subscription-based MMO.

angrytarg wrote: »

I am personally in favor of personal responsibility and self determination. I don't support censorship, especially in the most trivial sense it's practiced in this forum. As such, I would like a client-side option to disable the "language filter", so people who feel the need to protect themselves and their offspring from "words" can keep it but people like me have the option to disable the profanity filter like the game allows for.

Unlikely to happen. They also use the censor system to censor out names of competing games, so allowing people to disable the censor would be counter-intuitive.

tehbubbaloo

krittycat wrote: »

Unlikely to happen. They also use the censor system to censor out names of competing games, so allowing people to disable the censor would be counter-intuitive.

you think those games arent talked about regardless?

krittycat

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

krittycat wrote: »

Unlikely to happen. They also use the censor system to censor out names of competing games, so allowing people to disable the censor would be counter-intuitive.

you think those games arent talked about regardless?

And, as has happened on the other forums, those instances are generally edited out of posts, unless it's super vague.

Their rules state that there's to be no discussion of those games - how they choose to enact that rule is their decision; whether they choose to have it automatically censored, or they choose to have the moderators go and remove every instance manually.

Rules are rules.

tehbubbaloo

i dont recall such a rule.
what i do recall is scores of threads regarding direct competitors swtor and star citizen being uncensored, and the completely out of genre game that few cared about getting a grand censor, WoW.

in any case, 'rules is rules' has never really addressed many 'whys'.

limonazza

cunnilingus
adolf
league of legends

angrytarg

krittycat wrote: »

Unlikely to happen. They also use the censor system to censor out names of competing games, so allowing people to disable the censor would be counter-intuitive.

Oh, I have no doubts that nothing will happen at all, they will just adapt what is Vanilla's default and go with it to cut down on effort since the filter doesn't "break" anything (that's not meant insultingly, it's natural that a company will only take the absolute bare minimum of effort possible, it's capitalism).

But I still would like that. I would think "censorship" of competitors is taken care of via a different database, but even it isn't isn't it painfully obvious how futile such pathetic attempts at censoring are? I just can't wrap my head around the basic mentaility of "we don't name X so it doesn't exist"

gulberat

I'm not sure he meant that no adjustments would ever be made, to judge from his earlier post in this thread--only that it would not be completely removed or made client-side-only.

angrytarg

gulberat wrote: »

I'm not sure he meant that no adjustments would ever be made, to judge from his earlier post in this thread--only that it would not be completely removed or made client-side-only.

I didn't understand it that way, I was just bringing it up at a side point. Like I would expect nothing to happen, I still would like it, though.

I'm sorry if I mis-phrased that

protogoth

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

i dont recall such a rule.
what i do recall is scores of threads regarding direct competitors swtor and star citizen being uncensored, and the completely out of genre game that few cared about getting a grand censor, WoW.

in any case, 'rules is rules' has never really addressed many 'whys'.

Yeah, swtor was talked about a lot (too much, in my opinion, but ymmv) in the old fora, and never censored.

And yes, rules must exist for reasons, and not simply because "well, we gotta have rules, so let's make up some with no bases whatsoever." The question of "why" is one of the things which motivates many to seek out the origin of taboo words (in my case, I took loads of language and linguistics courses as a high school student and as an undergrad because of personal fascination, and happily stumbled upon the discussion of the history of taboo words in English in one of my textbooks).

arrmateys

limonazza wrote: »

adolf

adolf shouldn't matter.

just because one bad guy had a name like that doesn't mean everyone on the planet with the same name should suffer for that. otherwise why aren't all josephs suffering for stalin's and mengele's atrocities? or vlads for lenin creating one of the worst regimes, only rivaled by adolf's one?

limonazza

sieg heil adolf hitler

did i render the idea of what i meant?